Braves Considering Ken Griffey Jr.
by gondeee on Feb 14, 2009 5:29 PM EST
in Braves Related Free Agents
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PrintAccording to several sources the Braves are apparently focusing on Ken Griffey Jr. to fill their left field void. From ESPN's Jerry Crasnick:
Two baseball sources told ESPN.com on Saturday that the Atlanta Braves are making a late play for Griffey and have begun discussing money with his agent. [...]
The interest is apparently mutual. Griffey lives in Orlando, Fla., where Atlanta's spring training site is located, and has a good relationship with Braves manager Bobby Cox.
Griffey would also be willing to split time with Matt Diaz in left field for the Braves, sources said.
The platoon idea is a new and interesting option, and should make Griffey even more attractive to Braves fans. Some of you may remember that I said that the Braves should have interest in Griffey back in November. Whether it was their inability to get other outfielders, or whether they had Griffey in mind all along we may never know, but at this stage of the off-season he might be the best option on the free agent market.
In looking at a possible platoon between Griffey and Diaz, Griffey had an .851 OPS against right-handed pitching in 2008 and Diaz had a .964 OPS against left-handed pitching in 2007 (the last injury-free year he had).
There is a risk with Griffey being in the last couple of years of his career and his history of injuries, but not solely relying on him to fill the position, instead using a platoon, would alleviate some of the risk of signing an aging veteran.
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If it's Griffey or Anderson...
…I’ll take Griffey. Even if he doesn’t have the ol’ 40 HR power anymore, he can take a walk. A platoon with Diaz would produce essentially an .850 OPS LF.
I remember that most of us thought you had been drinking when you came up with the idea of us signing him. Sadly, he’s about the best thing left on the FA market. If he’s cheap, sign him at this point, for 1 year. Maybe in a platoon with Diaz we could have a passable LF, but I’m scared. This means we’re counting on a questionable LF platoon, a probably CF platoon of Blanco/Anderson, and we’re counting on FYF not to suck in RF. This looks dangerously similar to the black hole of suck of an outfield we had last year.
-1000 for being a dick.
No
Taking a few, or rather a ton of steps back, it’s strange to see once the biggest star of the mid 1990s, now jockeying to get a platoon role for what many are pre-pegging as a questionable success team.
Back then, it didn’t matter who was pitching to him, he was always a threat to put a pitcher on the wrong end of a highlight reel, and now he wants and is willing to split time with Matt Diaz. Kind of like the same level people are saying that Glavine needs to throw in the towel, I feel similarly about Griffey, Jr. I like the guy, and I’d hate to see him limp to the end.
Furthermore, even if he comes to the squad as a part-time player, I still think he’s a high injury risk. And if anything happens, whether he tries to make a diving catch or he pulls a hamstring running out a grounder, the team will be left with either the inevitable Bjönes/Diaz platoon, or worse, Diaz everyday, but with more money being allocated to a player on the DL.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Exactly right
You have hit the nail on the head.
A lot of people hear the name “Ken Griffey, Jr.” and think the Braves are negotiating with one of baseball’s elite players. Only those who follow the game closely understand Griffey hit .249 last year and can’t cover much ground defensively anymore. Of course he hits better against right-handed pitchers. Almost all hitters hit better against a pitcher who throws from the opposite side.
Frankly, the Braves would be better-off with Jones/Diaz than with Griffey/Diaz in LF because it would save them money, and because Jones is a young kid who is not an injury risk like Griffey. Brandon Jones will get better. Ken Griffey will get hurt.
And, frankly, it would be very disappointing if Frank Wren concludes a fairly successful offseason by signing a 39 year old spent former star to start in LF. I can’t imagine why Wren would want to put Chipper , Griffey, and McCann (or Griff/Chipper/McCann) back-to-back-to-back in the middle of the Braves’ line-up. Think about it. He’s expecting to get 120 games out of Chipper, and he knows it’s just a matter of time before Chipper gets hurt. Griffey is also a very high injury risk, and McCann will sit 1-2 times a week. This is not the way to build a successful line-up anymore than it was a successful strategy (it wasn’t) for last year’s starting rotation.
BJONES/MATTYD?
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 15, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
With Griffey, you’ll get the MATTYD part anyway. So now it’s incumbent upon you to show me some objective reason to believe that Brandon Jones (who struggled at AAA last year) is going to outperform Ken Griffey Jr. (who had an .841 OPS vs. RHP in the majors last year, in spite of a bad knee).
Most of what I believe has already been posited already: Griffey is on the decline, BJONES can certainly improve upon his past performance by virtue of having another season of experience under his belt, BJONES would cost way less and wouldn’t require us to boot someone off the 40-man…I think that’s basically it.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 15, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see how Griffey is “on the decline” against right-handed pitching.
I understand that BJONES “can” improve upon his past performance, but I’d need evidence that it’s LIKELY. BJONES wasn’t ever THAT great of a prospect that his subpar 2008 season can just be overlooked. Again, many prospect experts see BJONES as a fourth outfielder at best.
BJONES would cost way less, but the Braves are going to spend their remaining dough on another outfielder one way or another. Getting a guy like Nick Swisher would get in BJONES’ way just as much as (if not more than) getting Griffey would.
As far as booting someone off the 40-man roster, Anthony Lerew is just begging to be booted, and we’ll pick up a spot when Tim Hudson goes on the 60-day DL anyway. That fits Glavine and Griffey in there pretty nicely.
I meant that Griffey is in a declining state in all aspects of the game. His ability to hit right-handed pitching, while certainly his strongest skill at this point, is in decline as well (although no more or less than his other skills).
I am not the strongest supporter of BJONES, admittedly; I see him as more of a fourth-outfielder type as well. If, however, he is able to play at a level higher than we have seen him play at in the past as a result of natural development, I think the Braves would be wise to give him a chance to prove it.
While I think we should maximize our remaining payroll dollars to improve the 2009 team, I just do not see either Glavine or Griffey as being worth what we would end up paying them. While I would love to see Swisher in a Braves uniform, I think he would ultimately be too expensive for the Braves to acquire.
You bring up a good point about Hudson going on the 60-day D.L.; I didn’t realize that he wasn’t already there.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 15, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
There’s still little reason to believe he won’t post an .850 OPS against righties next year. In decline is relative to his previous performance; he’ll still be plenty good.
Jones should NOT get a chance to prove himself. If they don’t get Griffey, they should get Nick Swisher or Josh Willingham or someone else. I’m not saying Griffey is the ultimate solution. I am saying that Brandon Jones is NOT a solution. Talk all you want about “natural development”; you still have failed to show me any evidence that he has any room left to develop. He took two steps back last year, and his prospect status wasn’t good enough to afford that.
Glavine isn’t part of this discussion; as for Griffey, it appears the Braves are willing to pay Griffey UP TO $1.5 million (per Mark Bowman of MLB.com). Maybe you disagree, but I can’t see Griffey being worth less than $1.5 million.
U.S.S. Mariner took a pretty good look at what Griffey will bring to the table this year.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 16, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
If the Braves miss on Griffey, their next likely target would be Garrett Anderson.
Griffey>Anderson>Player X (X~FA) and IMO (Griffey+Diaz/Bjones+Diaz)>((Swisher/Bjones+Diaz)-(MinorLeagueplayerX^X))
...catsports...
…que cbwilk’s statistical expertise examples to prove my opinion wrong…
...catsports...
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 14, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
although im new, you’ve tended to work me in the past…
...catsports...
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 14, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going back to my baseball movie marathon....
a first day of ST tradition. Wrapping up Bull Durham, Major League is up next (and yes I have all three, even though I don’t care for two or three – it’s more of a collection issue).
This picture could give you nightmares
mmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmm
bitch
Proof that when posting while high or intoxicated can lead to some really funny posts
by bravesrbaseball on Feb 15, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
“I don’t wanna hear about no motherfucking nos! All I wanna hear from your ass is: ‘You ain’t got no problem, Jules. Griffeys on the motherfucker. Go back in there, chill them n*gg*rs out and wait for the cavalry, which should be coming directly.’”
...catsports...
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 14, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
No. nonononono
Griffey’s small amount of batting value is nearly destroyed by his large negative value in the field. He has no fielding ability left and that greatly devalues him. If we sign him it would be a huge mistake. He is probably not even going to be worth $2 million next year if he plays left field. He could be a decent DH, but we are in the wrong league.
You guys are missing the purpose of getting a veteran like Griffey. His presence would be good for the team. We need someone like him other then Chipper to keep things positive. Funny though as I made a comment about this yesterday. Jones, Griffey, and McCann would be solid. Platooning with Diaz would save his injury risk. Should we make it to the playoffs, his presence would be much needed.
Because we have no other players who are veterans or have positive attitudes other than Chipper and McCann.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 14, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, we’ve got a team full of negative hitters. You know, Omar Infante, Matt Diaz, Martin Prado, they’re all super serious and angry all the time. Horrible influences.
www.dropoutproductions.com
bastards
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
:’-(
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 15, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs to get their head checked
and apparently that is ~80% of this site’s readership.
Let’s break this down – he’s a slightly above average hitter who plays horrendous defense in the outfield corner. This makes him a 0 to 1 win player. He’s a big name so he’ll be getting at least 5 million and if I had to guess, probably in the range of 7-9 per year. That’s too much for him. At this point, Griffey Jr. isn’t a valuable player.
So please, can someone here actually make a decent attempt to justify getting him?
by BraveBronco0121 on Feb 14, 2009 7:46 PM EST reply actions
Don’t look at me. The only thing I could justify giving him is a minor league contract, but we all know that ain’t gonna happen.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 14, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
If Abreu could only eek out a $5 mil deal, I don’t see Griffey getting more than $3 mil. Griffey’s agent said last week he wanted $5 mil, and he thought he would pay for himself in increased ticket sales(yeah, I lol’ed too). I doubt anyone buys that, but if Griffey would sign for $3 mil, and Glavine goes for the incentive-rich deal paid out over several years that’s currently on the table, we might have enough bank left to get back in the bidding for Ohman. I’m still afraid of the black hole of suck outfield possibility, but he’s the best FA option left since we lost out on Dunn, Burrell, Dunn, Abreu, Dunn & Dunn.
-1000 for being a dick.
To begin with, I’m not sure what free-agent market you’ve been watching. Griffey won’t even TOUCH $7 million per year. Think somewhere between $3-4 million guaranteed.
Then, if you figure he plays only against right-handed pitching, you pencil him in for something like 110 games. Extrapolate his numbers against righties (.850-ish OPS) over 110 games, and then extrapolate his fielding (-20 UZR/150) over 110 games, and you’re going to come out in the black. Think Adam Dunn circa 2006, except only 110 games played: you’re talking a 1.2-win player, or thereabouts. Not awesome, but when you tack on another +1 win for the other 50 games, played by Matt Diaz (who’s a plus fielder), and you don’t have such a bad left field solution, given the cost.
If nothing else, you have to figure we have perhaps $4 million left to spend, since Wren seems intent on bringing Glavine back. What better solutions can we find for that price? That even rules out Nick Swisher. Maybe a deal for a Josh Willingham or something, but I can’t imagine that giving up prospects for Willingham would provide us with more production than a Diaz/Griffey platoon.
To all the people complaining defense
Remember that our LF defense has been atrocious since Willie Harris was out there. Matt Diaz is NOT any measurable upgrade over Griffey. We were looking forward to signing Adam Dunn or Bobby Abreu, neither of whom is a defensive whiz. The point is that we need a bat more than LF defense at this point.
Let me think about this...
Right now left field is a platoon of Diaz and Jones. So basically the question is whether Griffey vs. RHP, is worth 3-5 mil more than Jones vs. RHP. So .272/.379/.462 vs. .267/.306/.396, making the difference .005/.073/.066 or .139 OPS. This is all assuming that Griffey doesn’t further decline and to assume the .850 OPS left-fielder scenario, Diaz has to come back and play the way he did in 07, which I don’t think is safe to assume. Looking at it like this, I don’t think he is worth it, but, on the other hand, the Diaz/Jones platoon seems like its going to suck horribly.
However, considering our other options; Edmonds(no way), Anderson(again no thanks), and Swisher. If we acquire Swisher he is going to most likely play LF on an everyday basis. Let’s assume he plays like he did in 06 and 07 (which I think is just as fair as the .850 OPS for a Diaz/Griffey LF) and you have a .258/.377/.474 or .851 OPS player. So basically Griffey(/Diaz) = Swisher.
Griffey will cost us lets say 4 mil and Swisher would cost us 5.3 mil this year(plus 15.75 over the next 2), a couple of prospects, and could possibly block the path of one of our prospects, maybe Gorkys in ’10 or ’11. At this point I say sign Griffey as long as its for 1 yr, he realizes he will be platooned, and Bobby intends to use him that way.
Heres the problem with you’re analysis of Jones/Griffey. Jones has gotten a cup of coffee in the majors and hasn’t been given a chance to show what he can do. For all we know, he can throw up a line similar to his minor league numbers. You know what you’re getting out of Griffey, at best. He’s gonna cost more money, play less games, have worse stats across the board…its one of those fucking stupid Braves “VETERAN PRESENCE” moves, like bringing in Shane Reynolds a few years ago to SHORE UP THE ROTATION while Jason Marquis rotted in the bullpen before getting run out of town on a fucking rail.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
Cost more money? Yes, Griffey will cost more than Brandon Jones. But do you have a better idea of where to use that $4 million?
Play less games? Hard to say. Griffey has had problems with his health, to be sure. But his knee has been surgically repaired, and we’d only expect him to be playing part-time. The Braves played exactly one-third of their games last year against left-handed starters, so effectively you’re asking the Kid to be on the field two days out of three. Do you really think that’s too much to ask?
Have worse stats? Not even close. Even if Jones does “throw up a line” like his minor-league numbers, you’re talking about a .787 OPS (that was his split vs. RHP in 2008). Griffey stands to be significantly more productive (.841 OPS last year vs. RHP). This isn’t really even a contest; I think you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who believes Brandon Jones can even approach an .850 OPS, even if he is hidden from southpaws.
I firmly believe that Brandon Jones will out produce Griffey (and Diaz for that matter) next season. The question is, will it be with the Braves, or will he go the Jermaine Dye route?
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
I agree with bigjoe. Having a veteran presence in the clubhouse is completely overrated, especially since Bobby Cox has been here forever and we have veterans on the team. I would rather Brandon Jones platoon and see what he can do rather than go with Griffey who we all know what he can bring to the team. Declining numbers. I would like to see Jones have a chance to earn that LF job rather just handing it to Griffey.
by bengoodfella on Feb 15, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not arguing for Griffey on the grounds that he’ll bring a veteran presence. I agree that we don’t need that. But Griffey’s numbers against right-handed pitching really aren’t in decline, and I’d love to see some objective evidence that Brandon Jones can post an .850 OPS in a major-league uniform, when he couldn’t even reach .790 last year in the International League. Jones looks like a fourth outfielder at best these days, and while that’s not without value, it’s also not something you want starting two-thirds of your games.
Cost more money? Yes, Griffey will cost more than Brandon Jones. But do you have a better idea of where to use that $4 million?
Disco night?
Or sign Will Ohman. Or don’t re-sign Glavine either and put the money toward paying Nick Swisher. Or hold on to the money and trade for someone at the deadline? Or put it toward an extension for Chipper, or Gonzo, or locking Escobar up through his arbitration years, or any number of things.
im liking Disco Night
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Where is the Disco Night poll
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 15, 2009 3:37 AM EST up reply actions
There are two givens here: first, we are not signing Will Ohman and second, we are signing Tom Glavine. I am not interested in arguing the merits or demerits of those choices but they are what they are. Trading for someone at the deadline us a nice thoght, but of course that means little if you don’t spend now to even still be in contention then. As for the extensions, those will all hit next year’s payroll. So, as enjoyable as disco night might be, the most rational place to spend the remaining payroll is the immediate improvement of the roster.
who said anything about rational?
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
If we're not good enough to be in contention without Griffey
then we aren’t good enough to be in contention with Griffey.
It’s not like we’re talking about ManRam here.
What are you talking about? If you split the left-field playing time in a straight platoon (2/3 to Griffey and 1/3 to Diaz), and Diaz and Griffey both repeat their 2008 performance against opposite-side pitchers (remember both had down years in 2008), you’re looking at an .811 OPS from left field. If those guys repeat their performance from the last three years, you’re looking at an .880 OPS. That’s a big boost over whatever you’d get playing Brandon Jones (and his mid-.700s MINOR-LEAGUE OPS) in left two-thirds of the time. And this is a Braves team that just needs a little extra boost.
Furthermore, let’s run with your philosophy for a second. There is literally no one we can get for $3-4 million who is good enough to push us over the hump into contention if Griffey couldn’t. No one on the market is THAT much of a boost over Griffey. Swisher would be, but it seems he’s out of the price range. Who else do you see?
I should think it's obvious
I’m saying that Griffey doesn’t make enough difference over Blanco, Anderson, or Jones in LF to push us over the hump into contention. We’ll either be in contention at the deadline or not, at which point we could use the extra money to add a legitimate difference maker via trade if we are in contention.
For the record
I think adding a very good left handed middle reliever (not a LOOGY) like Ohman to the ’pen would do more to help the team than Griffey in a LF platoon.
I don’t actually care much for Jones, and would rather see our 4 OFers be Blanco/Anderson/FYF/Diaz, with Ohman in the ’pen than having Griffey replace Anderson or Blanco and Ohman on some other team.
As for Logan, he should have every chance to win one of the bullpen spots, having a good LOOGY to go with Ohman would only help the team. Our problems last season had much more to do with our pitching being the worst in the league than it did with our offense.
There are two givens here: first, we are not signing Will Ohman and second, we are signing Tom Glavine. I am not interested in arguing the merits or demerits of those choices but they are what they are.
What’s the point of arguing anything then? The FO is going to sign who they’re going to sign regardless.
Will Ohman, (valued at .7, .5, and .9 wins over the last 3 years) does more to help us win than Ken Griffey, Jr. (-.6,.2, and .2) and, as such, would be a better use of money.
Especially when you consider that Gregor Blanco and Josh Anderson were both 1 win players last year, and their superior defense alone will add more value than whatever offense we can squeeze out of Junior.
Dude, there is a big difference between arguing things that the organization hasn’t done yet, and arguing things that they have done. Arguing over whether we should have traded Neftali Feliz et al for Mark Teixeira is irrelevant now; discussions of Will Ohman or Tom Glavine (whose conclusions are seemingly equally foregone, as far as the Braves are concerned) are just as irrelevant. As far as we’re concerned, the FO has already decided to let Ohman go and to sign Glavine. What’s worth talking about are the decisions they haven’t made yet (or at least, that they haven’t made as far as we know).
It’s not difficult to see Griffey being worth one win or more if he only faces right-handed pitching. As I say, go back and look at Adam Dunn circa 2006 (.850 OPS, -18 UZR), and just adjust for two-thirds of the playing time. Also, the marginal benefit of Will Ohman over Boone Logan isn’t nearly as great as the marginal benefit of Griffey over Brandon Jones.
Anderson won’t be a one-win player again, since he’s not going to post a BABIP figure anywhere NEAR what he did last year, and we need Blanco to play center field. So those aren’t options in left; at least they aren’t better than paying $1.5 million for Griffey.
"foregone conclusion"
So, in short, you make an arbitrary decision. Gotcha.
Griffey can’t play D anymore, Anderson and Blanco were both around +14 to his -18 last season, bluntly put, Griffey’s bat isn’t good enough to make up that difference by enough of a margin to be worth $4 MM.
As for Anderson Vs Blanco in CF, seriously, Bobby Cox is our manager, as long as we’ve got our ‘jump to conclusions mats’ out you think he’s going to care about BABIP or OBP over BA? As long as Anderson doesn’t have an abysmal spring, he’s got the inside track to start in CF over Blanco. Adding KG only decreases the chances of Blanco even making the team.
I miss the “arbitrary decision” here. David O’Brien has said flat-out that the Braves are no longer pursuing Ohman, and that they retracted their offer to him shortly after they acquired Boone Logan. He (and other sources) seem likewise assured that Tom Glavine’s return to the Braves is imminent. I don’t agree with the Glavine decision any more than you do, but it’s happening, so my opinions on the outfield situation reflect that reality.
On Griffey, we’re not talking about $4 million. According to Mark Bowman, we’re talking only up to $1.5 million. And yeah, if you run the numbers on Griffey vs. Anderson/Blanco, factoring in the defense, there’s definitely an argument to be made for playing Blanderson against RHPs, that they will turn out to be better than Griffey. But there are two things at play here, that I think such analysis doesn’t take into account. The first is Griffey’s undeniable financial impact. Let’s face it…people are going to buy Griffey jerseys in far greater numbers than they will buy Blanco gear. While I’m all about winning, there’s a very real, very tangible financial benefit to Griffey’s presence. Second, there’s another “reality” to be faced here: namely, the Braves are going to acquire an outfielder between now and Opening Day. I think that’s rational, but even if you don’t, it’s a fact of life. Given the choice between a one year commitment to Griffey at $1.5 million or giving up Gorkys Hernandez to get our hands on Nick Swisher (and cash to offset the $22.05 million yet due to him), I pick Griffey.
As far as the center field competition goes, I fully understand what you’re saying. However, as far as I’m concerned, if Anderson is the starting center fielder, Blanco ought to return to Gwinnett regardless of Griffey’s presence. Anderson is just an inferior version of Blanco; no use wasting roster space on both of them. In that sense, I don’t want Blanco to make the team; I just hold out hope that since that is a decision that ISN’T made already, that the team will see reason, or that the players’ respective spring performance will reflect the roles that they merit.
A few months ago all the reports were that the Braves had no interest in Lowe, now he’s our top pitcher. What is said in some column is irrelevant until it becomes official. And neither Glavine or Ohman has signed with anybody.
Griffey is obviously a better move for PR purposes. I don’t dispute that. I do doubt that he signs for $1.5MM, this is like that opening offer we made to Glavine, then had him come back asking for double. I’ll be shocked if Griffey signs for less than $3-4MM.
Like I said, I think, factoring in defense, Griffey isn’t really any better a choice than Gregosh in LF. They’re a couple of young guys who could actually improve, Griffey is 39 years old.
Some important differences between Lowe’s situation and Glavine’s and Ohman’s. In Lowe’s case, the Braves denied interest, but those denials never made much sense, coming from a team that needed a top-end starter. With Eric O’Flaherty and Boone Logan in the fold, Will Ohman is a luxury rather than a need, so it’s understandable that the Braves withdrew their offer. As for Glavine, there’s a big difference between a move that a team says it WON’T make and a move that a team says it WILL make; there’s an advantage to be gained by posturing that you aren’t in on a player (when really you are), but there’s no reason to do it the other way. At this point, like I say, if you still think the Braves will sign Ohman and won’t sign Glavine, you’re in the minority.
You mention that Glavine came back “asking for double”; so far as we know, the Braves haven’t given it to him. All they’ve done is add another $1 million in deferred incentives. Griffey can ask for whatever he wants, but I don’t see a reason to think that the Braves are going to cave to whatever he demands. There are other outfielders we can target. I’d be shocked also if Griffey signed for less than $3 million, but family matters to him, and he doesn’t seem to have a whole lot of other choices.
As for Blanco/Anderson’s advantage on defense, I take issue with UZR (the stat you cite to determine how much better Blanco is on D than Griffey). I love UZR—don’t get me wrong. It’s great for comparing two players’ defense. But if you’re trying to judge the “whole package,” I think UZR is a little extreme. To wit, let’s put Adam Dunn and Gregor Blanco in left field for 150 games and 600 PAs. Both hit and field like they did in 2008. If you add up offense and defense by FanGraphs’ “value wins” methodology, Blanco comes out to be the better player. That just doesn’t pass my “smell test.” So while I agree that Griffey is an awful defender, and Blanco is quite good, I would disagree with the magnitude of their difference (i.e., I don’t think Blanco is literally 3.5 wins better with the leather).
Why "no way" to Edmonds and "Thank you sir, may I have another" to Griffey?
Edmonds OPS’d .883 against lhp’s last year, vs. Griffey’s .841. Edmonds was poor in CF last year (minus15 runs), but he figures to improve if he’s playing LF. Griffey had his best defensive season in years, and he was still minus 13 runs in RF. If we’re going after washed-up has-beens, we should at least get the best of the bunch, right?
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Feb 14, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I understand where you’re coming from in a baseball sense. However, I think Griffey makes up for at least some of his performance disadvantage because, let’s face it, the Braves will sell a lot more Griffey jerseys than Edmonds jerseys.
Anyone who buys a Griffey Braves jersey should spend their money on better things.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
I’d consider it. I have a Griffey M’s t-shirt.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 15, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Well get over it. If Griffey signs with Atlanta, the team will sell a great many of his jerseys. That’s real money that the team will earn, and it does matter. I’m not opposed to Edmonds; quite the contrary. But my point is that the decision between Edmonds and Griffey is perhaps not so clear-cut as buzzdeadwax makes it seem.
signing griffey....
will put pressure on francoeur and will also give the braves an option if francoeur sucks balls like he did last year. if that happens, griffey can play right and we can continue the platoon in left field. it’s f’ing brilliant. griffey also has a desire to play in atlanta, which makes him more appealing in my eyes. plus, it wouldnt hurt attendance to put the greatest outfielder of our time (that hasnt been linked to steroids), in an atlanta uniform.
Maybe between Griffey and Chipper, Frenchy would get a world-class course in hitting. We can hope, right?
by FineHamAbounds on Feb 15, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
We also need
Frank Thomas at first, and a couple of either Juan Gonzalez,Sammy Sosa and Jose Canseco. When I first started thinking about I said wow Sosa is avaliable plus he’s right handed and can draw crowds. On an interesting development we also learned that Roberto Alomar is still out there and avaliable. Think of the crowds that guy would draw, it’d be like having Kevin Bacon on the team.
The case against Ken Grumpy Jr.
Grumpy is a club house cancer above being a now past his prime former juicer. I’m not so sure he’d fit in well with Bobby Cox’s insistance on professionalism and hustle. The guy is a primo “Cadillac-er” and prone to the double play too. That is of course when he’s not instantly hurt when a stiff breeze is blowing and he’s on the DL. Call me biased considering I had to watch him barely break a sweat in Cincinnati over the past decade. While there is the personna of the wall-crashing, fun loving, homer happy kid, he really isn’t any of that any more and perhaps was probably never as good a guy as he’d seemed on the outside. While with the Reds his production never matched the headaches he caused. He won’t want to platoon either, he’ll pout, he’ll drag ass and he’s more suited to playing in the AL where he can DH and sit on his over-priced butt and whine and moan in the dug out.
Good call. Griffey is not a positive presence in the clubhouse. I’ve heard a lot of Griffey stories from former teammates over the years, but the best was from Chris Widger. He told me how his rookie year with the M’s (97, I think) Griffey owned about a quarter of the clubhouse and no one was allowed to enter his area or talk to him. This personal bubble extended onto the field, so much that he only ever spoke to Griffey once in passing.
www.dropoutproductions.com
Do you think he even has the credibility to do that in Atlanta?
Wouldn’t Wren and Cox explain in great detail (before signing him) what his role would be and what they expect? I’m not big on this Griffey deal but it seems those days of EGO are gone for Griffey.
I don’t know, it’s a valid question. But, my experience has always been that guys with ego like his (all caps like you mentioned) only tend to get worse as they get older. It’s a positive step that he’d be willing to play as part of a platoon, but I think expecting him to all of the sudden become a cuddly team player isn’t a good bet.
www.dropoutproductions.com
Wow, what proof do you have of him being a 'former' juicer?
…you lost me there..and really I stopped reading the rest of what I’m going to assume is just as crappy as your first sentence.
I had gotten used to the notion that Griffey was coming back to the M's
so this dissapoints me slightly, but at least in my defense I wanted him back 90% because of nostalgia purposes and 10% because he MIGHT be a productive part as the lefty of a DH platoon…
…for the Braves, this move makes no sense whatsoever. It was said earlier but it bears repeating: Whatever slight boost you get at the plate from him is completely overwhelmed by the glaring inability to play in the outfield at this point in his career. Frankly, I’m shocked that an organization so well regarded around the league would even consider the proposition.
Best option?
I am not against Griffey for a few reasons.
1) Griffey and Swisher are about the same offensive player at this point, in my opinion.
2) If Brandon Jones outplays Griffey and earns the LF job, we only have to pay Griffey for one year rather than three .
Yes, but we’re still paying him…to sit on the bench and do nothing. Doesn’t seem like a very prudent way to spend money.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
He hasn’t played in 150 games in a decade.
He’s played in more than 140 3 times. He’s played in less than 90 3 times.
I know he’s just gonna be a platoon player, but the desire to play him every day is gonna be too strong for Cox. And he’s going to crash and burn and have another hilarious leg injury.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
The Braves need Griffey to play about 110 games. They faced right-handed starters 108 times last year; that’s all the Braves need from Griffey. His platoon splits mean he has no business playing 140 games anyway. I suppose the difference between you and me is that I don’t assume Bobby Cox’s incompetence.
He played Matt Diaz nearly every day for a month and a half before Miller Park took care of that situation for him
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
thanks...
for ruining my post with your ridiculous dribble of bringing back all the crap that has either retired or should be. ken griffey, on the other hand, can probably put up respectable d in left field, good power #s and obp, and most definitely is a positive presence we should look in to signing, because he wants to play in atlanta. so, joe and other naysayers, what would you have wren to do? gamble that diaz (who was injured all last year) and b.jones (who didnt put decent enough #s up to win diaz’s job after he was injured) to play left and have no other backup plan. not me. give me griffey. now glavine, on the other hand, i dont know. does he have a position on this team? doesnt seem so.
True enough. Griffey still sucks on D. If you figure 110 games for Griffey at a -18 UZR/150, you’re looking at about -12 on the season. Diaz is about a +6 UZR/150 fielder, so that’s +2 for his 54 games. You’re at a net -10 from left field across the whole season: not great, but also not irrecoverably bad. You’d also think that late in games, teams would send situational lefties out to face Griffey…Cox could then pinch-hit for the Kid with Diaz, and replace Griffey’s awful leather with Diaz’s much better glove.
RUINED
Give me BJONES/MATTYD and be done with it.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 15, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Pundits: The Braves shouldn’t sign Adam Dunn or Bobby Abreu, they’re lefties! We don’t need another lefty!
Realists: But they’re good hitters and would help the club out a lot
Pundits: Hogwash! We need a right handed power bat!
:Abreu & Dunn sign:
Realists: Fuck, looks like we’re going with a shitty veteran or a platoon
Pundits: Nonsense! We can sign Garrett Anderson or Ken Griffey Jr and get great production! They’d be a perfect fit for this team!
Realists: Wait, aren’t both of those guys left-handed?
Pundits: That doesn’t matter! They’re proven, established hitter and major league stars! Plus, they’d bring beteran presence, which is what this team desperately needs!
Realists: :facepalm:
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
There’s a bunch of huge fallacies there. When you’re talking about Adam Dunn and Bobby Abreu, you’re not talking about a platoon. You’re talking about guys that are going to play everyday, and be paid that way. And bringing in another everyday lefty hitter wasn’t the best fit for the Braves. That said, I was in favor of Abreu or Dunn if the price was right, but Dunn’s price went too high, and it doesn’t seem the Braves had the money to satisfy Abreu.
Now, you’re talking about getting a left-handed hitter IN ORDER TO platoon with a guy that we know can paste right-handed pitching. I hate Anderson, so I won’t bring him up, but either Jim Edmonds or Ken Griffey Jr. would have to come without an expectation of playing every day. There’s a huge difference between seeking an everyday left-handed bat, and a part-time left-handed bat.
You’re still convinced Bobby Cox isn’t stupid. Whoever we sign we’ll have a decent enough spring, and Cox will decide to “give him a shot to play every day”, and it will end horribly.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
I’m not the staunchest defender of Bobby Cox, but yes, I am convinced that he’s not “stupid.” What’s to say Diaz won’t have a “decent enough spring” himself, and earn his playing time? You were trying to tell me that this same thing happened with Matt Diaz last year, that he played “nearly every day” until he got hurt. Alas, that’s demonstrably false. So while I can see Cox getting a little carried away, playing Griffey more than he should against southpaws, it’s also important to remember that the Braves’ front office is filled with competence…they’ll make sure that things don’t get out of hand.
You seem to discount the possibility that Cox will try playing Brandon Jones everyday, and that will likewise end horribly. If both Griffey and Jones were to play everyday, at least we know Griffey will hit in two-thirds of those games (the ones against RHSP). Jones…we don’t know that he’ll hit at all.
"that we know can paste right left-handed pitching
fixed
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 15, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry for the double post
Meant to put this here, in the more commented thread, instead of the other one:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=3909252
It’s a Stark story on Griffey/Braves. I thought it was funny that Cox called Griffey “Kenny”…
It seems that Chipper really wants him.
regarding joe...
“He wasn’t much better in right the past 2 seasons. AND RIGHT IS THE SAME AS LEFT ZOMGGGGGGG”
right and left arent the same.
I wasn't making that implication
Although I can see where you got that. I was attempting a quote and forgot the quotations. I can’t remember what it’s from, though – some commerical I think. Maybe Vince Lombardi?
"Break's over"
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