Changing Landscape
In light of the recent signings of Abreu and Dunn, I came to consider another option for LF. Swapping Kelly Johnson and a prospect or perhaps two for Alex Rios makes increasing sense for both the Braves and Blue Jays.
First of all, I'm well aware that Rios signed a 7 year extension prior to last season but things have changed dramatically for the Blue Jays since last spring. When Rios, 28 in a week, signed, the Jays were hell bent on contending and were pushing the payroll beyond their ideal level. Injuries sunk the Jays hopes of contending in 08' and with the loss of Burnett, improvement of the Rays, additions of the Yankees, and the presence of the Red Sox, the Jays may be looking to retool at some point later in the year. Analysts such as Keith Law have speculated that they would look to move Halladay and/or Vernon Wells if they were to struggle in 09’. Realistically, Wells' contract isn't mobile in the current economic climate and the organization has been unwilling to unload the face of the franchise, Roy Halladay. While I’m sure in the event of a roster reconstruction the Jays would look to move Wells first, Rios may be the only one of the two that they could move to create financial flexibility. The have a couple of young corner outfield prospects in Lind and Snider who are either ready or near ready to take over starting roles. Their farm system is not particularly deep, though they have a few impact prospects. Bottom line, Rios is a player they could move to shore up other areas while not leaving a gaping hole in his place.
Rios' contract is worth $65M over the next 6 years but only $5.9M in 09'. Though the Blue Jays are unwilling to begin roster reconstruction at present time, if they are in 4th place in June, it wouldn’t be a surprise to see the likes of Wells, Halladay, Rios, and B.J. Ryan made available. Kelly is the type of cheap, on-base oriented player the Jays covet and the Jays are rumored to have been interested in him in past years. The Jays also have a shortage of CF prospects and basestealers, making Gorkys a likely target if we were to engage in trade talks. While they wouldn’t be quite the player Kelly is, some combination of Infante and Prado would be serviceable at second base.
Maybe Rios is a player the Braves are targeting or just wishful thinking on my part. However, whether it be now or at midseason, Rios would be a great addition to our OF and the two organizations match up well in terms of needs. My point is, perhaps standing pat and not acquiring suspect players for the sake of immediate "help" is the better option. Rios is just an example of the type of player that could be available a few months down the road and surely there will be others we have not considered. Given the likelihood that more talented players could soon be available, I think the organization would be best served to pass on the likes of Nady and Swisher and make a strong run at a player who could really be a difference maker.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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I brought up Rios a few times and possible trade and was promptly shut down
It’s a possibility but I think there will be tons of options open in June.
If we had $5.9 million to spend next year, we would have signed Abreu. We simply just don’t have the money.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
If the figures mentioned earlier in the offseason are still true, we have 7 million left to spend. Anyway, if we were to acquire him later in the year, it would be a prorated portion of the 5.9M he is due
"Fools rush in where fools have been before"
They’re not still true. The economy hit the Braves.
Though MLB.com has previously reported that the Braves have $6 million to $7 million to spend, their remaining funds might actually be between $5 million and $6 million.
That’s from Mark Bowman a few days ago.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
well 5.9M is definitely between 5 and 6 million. Plus, in the proposition I made around 3M would be coming back off the payroll by trading Johnson. Adding Rios would only add ~3M to the payroll in this scenario
"Fools rush in where fools have been before"
Yes, it is between $5-6 million. But $5.9 is assuming we have $6 million to spend – the maximum. And that probably doesn’t include Glavine’s potential salary.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Why would they want Johnson if they weren’t planning on contending?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
He’s young, cheap, and productive. Not eligible for free agency til after 2011. Kelly’s a good hitter and fits their organizational philosophy to the letter. He’s a capable second basemen, probably could play third as well. The Jays don’t have much depth up the middle in the minors and have needs all over the infield. The only other young infielder they have is Aaron Hill, who can play 2B, 3B, and SS (arguably-see below). He would provide could production at a relatively low cost for the Jays.
"Fools rush in where fools have been before"
how do you figure?
we didnt want him/expressed no interest in him up until this past week…and even then it was only minimal.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 11, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of sources said we were interested. I didn’t mean to imply it was a guarantee, but if we were going to spend that kind of money, why not on Abreu without the cost of prospects?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
a lot of sources
said we were asking what other teams were offering and keeping our eyes on things. i dont think we were ever seriously interested.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 11, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
He’s not a terrible option but he’s not the type of player that we are looking for. His home runs come in one half of the season or the other and nobody can predict which half it will be. That and $65M over 6 years is going to become a problem. If Francouer and Rios manned the corner outfield spots we start to have a problem with to many outfielders in the next few years. That and the Blue Jays over rate their own players greatly. They would ask for Johnson, one of Locke or Rorhbough, plus 2 lower level prospects and he’s not worth that.
A couple things: 1. Rios double and triple rates haven’t varied much at all between half seasons the past two years. Which would indicate the fact that his HR totals coming in bunches is rather more luck than anything else. 2. Too much depth isn’t a problem. Never is. Francouer could continue believing its better to strike out than walk, Schafer could never learn to hit lefties, Heyward’s a great talent but then again he is 19 and odds are he wont be the player we hope he will.
Rios is an all-around contributor who doesn’t have much of a weakness in his game and he has potential for much more with the bat. At an average value of just under 11M per season, he would be a steal.
"Fools rush in where fools have been before"
All valid points but if you look at the other side they could all get better and be good players. And having to much depth can always be a problem. When players aren’t getting the at-bats they want they tend to complain which will divide a locker room and then your forced to trade someone and when your forced to trade someone you never get good value.
if in a couple of years (when Heyward proves ready) it appears that we have too many players in the OF we can deal one and supplement our team elsewhere. depth isnt bad and it can always be remedied… if for some reason we get rios for a good price (prospect wise) we should do it, in the hopes that he isnt needed in a couple years.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Not real quick but has the arm and hands to be there. Perhaps the turf in TOR would make it too fast for him but I’ve seen him play at least 10 games at short between college and when he first came up and he didn’t look over matched in the 6 hole. I’ll bet he would be no worse than a tick below average at short and with a plus bat, that makes you an everyday major league SS. Plus, when the Jays are starting Marco Scutaro at SS, the competition isn’t too strong
"Fools rush in where fools have been before"
Hill’s not a plus bat unless he has a HR/FB spike like in 2007. Otherwise he’s nothing special. Call him MLB average if he plays short, better than that if he plays second. They really have no reason to trade Rios for a guy who’s going to be under control for only two seasons. Makes a lot more sense to spin him off for prospects; thats not a very good system and they have no use for an arbitration eligible 2B.
Hill’s 2007 HR totals are probably an outlier but he should hit plenty of doubles, get on base at a fair clip, and post solid OBP’s. He is a very similar player to Michael Young. If Kelly stays at 2B and just holds the line offensively, he is sure to achieve type A status as a free agent. So in essence under my proposal, they would receive 2 years of Kelly, Gorkys, 2 draft picks, a prospect outside of our top 15, and achieve some salary relief. One thing that we do know, is their organization values players like Kelly very highly and has been specifically linked to him in the past.
"Fools rush in where fools have been before"

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