Are there any past Braves on the 104 name government steriod list?
by Jessero on Feb 10, 2009 9:04 PM EST
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Ever since this whole A-Rod steriod story broke on Saturday with the news that the government has a 104 person list of failed steriod tests taken in 2003, it has made me wonder, "are there any former Braves on that list"? We all know that eventually all these names will leak out, so time will tell on some former Braves( Javy Lopez, Ryan Klesco, Andrew Jones). So do ya'll think there are going to be any former Braves leaked from that list?
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Maybe not Andruw, but I’d say Sheffield, Giles, Javy, possibly Kelsco, and probably some relievers that made their way through here.
Klesko was clean!!!!
Don’t ruin it for me. He was always my favorite Brave. Javy was always a close second, so you shut your damn dirty mouth about him too!!!
Please? I asked nicely.
Can we just keep a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy about the guys I had hero worship for in the 90’s?
-1000 for being a dick.
Klesko was awesome
He had such a violent, yet solid swing, and he would hit such clutch monstrous HRs. He was a huge reason we won in 95
by bravesguy311 on Feb 11, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
The tests were done from 2001 to 2003, so lets do a little roster scan…
Lots of interesting names on the 2001 team. Guys to ponder include a lot of fringey guys that just REEK of steroids, like Rico Brogna, Bernard Gilkey, Wes Helms…obviously Ken Caminiti. Was Rocker in the Mitchell Report at all? He seems like a mortal lock.
2002..Sheffield, obviously. Andruw, Castilla, maybe Darren Bragg? Pitchers…maybe some of that infamous 2002 relief corps that came out of nowhere, like Hammond and Holmes.
2003. Javy Javy Javy. That seems obvious. Then pretty much the same gang as 2002.
And yes, I am avoiding the iconic elephants in the closet. I don’t even wanna think about it.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
Via VictorW:
He admitted to HGH use, though, if I recall, he was using it under prescription before it was banned.
Quoted.
Not Chipper! Not even close!!!
There is no evidence or indications that Chipper has ever done Steroids. He has always been an ambassador for stronger testing.
Jessero
This guy seems to think Chipper did steroids, he even wrote an article about it. I skimmed it, and the article has no reason to believe he did steroids at all. But then I looked at the profile of the guy and found out he’s a Mets fan. ’Nuff said.
BravesGirlBlog.com - Braves blogging by a Braves girl.
Two names
That I fear to see, but honestly wouldn’t necessarily bat an eye at hearing:
• Albert Pujols
• Chipper Jones
And I love them more than some members of my own family.
The bottom line is that I thought “A-Rod, no way,” and learned that it’s better to be weary and skeptical than naive. PEDs don’t always make you buff. Case in point: Nook Logan.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
if you thought A-rod was clean
you need to re-examine your thinking process. I thought all along that A-rod was a ped-user. Guys like Chipper, who have been speaking out against the peds and demanding more tests are the ones i will be shocked to learn used peds.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 11, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
My thinking process
Was that he was this slim, athletic looking guy in Seattle, remained fairly slim and athletic through Texas, and surprise, kept up his slim and athletic build all the way to New York. Any growth of his physique looked like the natural progression of the human body maturing. And if you look at his numbers, he’s never had a problem hitting home runs, and if anything, he dropped off during his supposed 03-05 juicing period. He didn’t balloon up like Barry Bonds, nor did he go from 16 to 50 homers like Brady Anderson. There’s plenty of reason to perhaps think that he wasn’t on PEDs.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
i gotta agree with you here … people forget he was 19 when he came up… of course he got bigger…also he switched positions.. his move to third allowed him to beef up and not worry about his range as much.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
i think
he has probably been juicing all along…not necessarily body-building juice like Bonds though.
I seriously doubt that A-rod only doped from 01-03.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 11, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Rafael Palmeiro was pretty adamant about not taking PEDs. Chipper would definitely shock me, but just because someone speaks out against PEDs doesn’t mean they haven’t done them.
"OBP is not a production number, and should not be used as something he achieved."
I know someone who was/is in the Orioles org who once insinuated to me that RP was such a jackass to everyone in the clubhouse he wouldn’t put it past someone to have set him up. He quickly added that was pure speculation on his part and wasn’t trying to point the finger at anyone, just that it wasn’t outside the realm of possibility.
"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST
RP
was never the best teammate. Don’t believe me? Ask Ryno.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
If he was roiding...
…then he was using the wrong stuff. Should have been using HGH to keep his ass on the field.
The only HGH Chipper has ever put in his mouth is home grown hooters…his motorboating % went from 322.85% in 1996 to 1.000% in 1997.
...catsports...
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 11, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha, sophmoric but I laughed.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Feb 11, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Eh...
I’m positive (no pun intended) there are some Braves on that list.
This whole steroid mess is an unfortunate black eye, but I try to stay realistic about it. The stakes for these players were incredibly high – millions of dollars on the line – and professional athletes are extremely competitive anyways. If I were in the situation they found themselves in, I would be very tempted to take something to get an edge.
Furthermore, we don’t really know just how much these “PEDs” actually enhanced performance. Ever since the deadball era, the overall trend in baseball has been towards more home runs. During the so-called steroid era, the only period that seems anomalous in terms of HR/G seems to be from 1999-2001. The following data is for the NL only.
HR/G
1991 – .74
1992 – .65
1993 – .85
1994 – .96
1995 – .96
1996 – .98
1997 – .97
1998 – 1.00
1999 – 1.13
2000 – 1.17
2001 – 1.16
2002 – 1.01
2003 – 1.05
2004 – 1.11
2005 – 1.02
2006 – 1.12
2007 – 1.05
2008 – 1.02
The HR rate per game in the NL has essentially been the same since 2002, save for blips in 04 and 06. The only sustained period of 1.10 or higher HR/game in the NL was from 1999-2001.
Oddly enough, this isn’t even close to the biggest power surge baseball has ever seen. The obvious one was when the game transitioned from the deadball era to that of the lively ball. However, from 1950-1964, HR/G in the NL spiked percipitously, up to almost twice what it had been in the previous decade and significantly higher than it would get until the 1990s.
Overall, I tend to feel that the role of steroids has been blown out of proportion. Most of the guys who are accused of having inflated numbers – McGwire, Bonds, Palmiero, Clemens, and now A-Rod – were incredible talents to begin with. I would consider it highly unlikely that steroids would take an average hitter and turn him into a .300 hitting, home run mashing machine.
Furthermore, I think we’re forgetting how “inflated” the numbers of many of the greats are. Nobody blasts Koufax for pitching off of a significantly higher than regulation mound, few impeach the character of Perry for his spitballing ways, and hell, Don Sutton was well known for doctoring the baseball. Jim Rice is only in the hall because he played in a hitter’s park. Amphetamines were probably even more widespread than steroids for much of the game’s history – they could well have had some effect on the performance of those who used them. The unique characteristics of each era and park tend to inflate or deflate certain numbers, and that’s simply something we need to account for. 500 home runs in the 40s and 50s is significantly more impressive than it is in the 90s, but there is no good reason for keeping someone like McGwire out of the hall just because of that. Last I checked, he didn’t violate the rules of Major League Baseball by using in the late 90s.
I apologize for going off topic there! I just got on a roll and couldn’t help myself. The way Baseball has been blasted for this stuff while the NFL gets a free pass tends to get under my skin.
by BraveBronco0121 on Feb 10, 2009 11:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
wow
This post is better than half the fanposts.
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
You have a copy of The Juice too?
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 11, 2009 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting stuff, but pitchers used steroids too. I’ll never be convinced that they don’t drastically enhance performance.
www.dropoutproductions.com
That's a very legit point...
and it seems like use was rather widespread. If 104 guys tested positive, that’s around 13% of the MLB population at the time of testing. I tend to think the number is slightly higher because there will always be some undetectable drugs and probably some degree of cheating the test. Pitchers seem to be no more or less likely to use them (there’s a list of people in the Mitchell Report at ESPN, I just gave it a cursory glance).
Still, I think we simply don’t know how much performance enhancement players got from steroids. It seems to me that the effect is likely proportional to how much the user puts into his own improvement – if all he’s doing is injecting anabolic steroids to keep from having to work out (Lenny Dykstra was known for this) he probably won’t see much of an effect. However, if used with a strength training routine and a goal in mind – say, hitting more home runs than anyone in history – I can see how it would be a significant enhancement.
by BraveBronco0121 on Feb 11, 2009 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
It seems to me that the effect is likely proportional to how much the user puts into his own improvement
This. The guys who really benefited from PEDs have legendary work ethic so the drugs allowed them to recover faster (and work out more often) and work beyond their genetic maximums.
"OBP is not a production number, and should not be used as something he achieved."
Got this from a comment from MedicineHat on U.S.S. Mariner
Actually…Baseball has, for a very long time, had the "no illegal drugs" clause in your contract. All though steroids may not have been on the specific banned sustances list called out by baseball, they are/were still against the law without a valid prescription thus making them an "illegal drug."
I’ve heard this more than once before and I used to know more specifics about it (including the date). I actually forgot all the stuff Big Mac used (andro? what else?) so I don’t know if it necessarily applies to him, but, in general, if someone was juicing before the PED ban without a subscription, they were breaking the rules.
"OBP is not a production number, and should not be used as something he achieved."
andro was not an illegal substance while Mac took it… u could buy it at GNC (i considered it) it was banned shortly after his big season
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
So was GHB, available at just about every “Gold’s” type gym around. That’s right, the infamous date rape drug was sold over the counter as a supplement.
"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST
no way chipper juiced… you should be banned from the site for that comment… potentially putting chip in the same category as McGwire, Palmiero, Bonds, and A-Roid is unfair to say the least.
"There are only two seasons -- winter and Baseball"
I'd cry if Chip were on that list ...
But I really really really really don’t think he is.
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
I'd be more surprised if Marcus Giles wasn't on the list.
best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)
Very True
But my only thing with Chipper is since he is so big on stricter testing… why would he sell himself out?
"The game demonstrated the superiority of the Southern teams over any aggregation that the damn yankees could send across the Mason and Dixon Line." Sports writer Charles Israel of the Philadelphia Bulletin after the Tide's 61-6 win over Syracuse in the 1953 Orange Bowl.
Rafael Palmeiro
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
I’m waiting for Schilling to be outed. I’ve always thought that guy used.
www.dropoutproductions.com
Really? I don't know.
Maybe he should have lifted more than a cheeseburger to his mouth.
best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)
Bret Boone
1997 HR 7
1998 HR 24
1999 HR 20 Braves
2000 HR 19
2001 HR 37
N. Tyler Ayers
are u saying he juiced? if anything he juiced in 2001… so he technically wouldnt be a brave that was juicinghe actually dropped in 1999 from his previous total
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Anyone else notice...
…that in the Mitchell report, at least, there were a few former Braves, but also the years they were reportedly using PEDs were after they had left the team? I’d be surprised if it was a big thing in the Atlanta clubhouse.
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