Braves: Trades First, Then Free Agents
by gondeee on Dec 9, 2009 11:49 AM EST
in Trade News
377 comments
The Braves probably realize that they may have jumped the gun when the signed two free agent relievers in Billy Wagner and Takashi Saito last week, before their own free agents made up their mind about whether they wanted to accept salary arbitration. As most of us already know, Rafael Soriano accepted arbitration and threw the Braves plans for the off-season and the winter meetings into disarray.
Instead of GM Frank Wren only having to move one starting pitcher (likely Derek Lowe), he now needs to move a reliever as well. Soriano has asked to be traded and several teams are in the mix, including the Orioles and Angels, and if money were less of an object, the Astros. It's important for more than one team to be in the fray so that the Braves can drive up the price a bit and get a better return, and possibly a useful piece they can plug in to their roster for 2010.
The urgency to move Soriano has led to the Braves putting other free agent options for position players on the back burner, according to Mark Bowman. This is out of a necessity to clear salary space before committing any more money to players for next season.
While Wren continues to say that the Soriano Surprise will not deter the Braves from their off-season plans, it has certainly slowed those plans until the more immediate situation of trading their former closer concludes. With multiple sources saying we should be able to trade Soriano easily and quickly I certainly hope they are correct. One thing going for us here is that the Braves seldom demand more value in return in a trade than the player they're trading is really worth. This is not the Blue Jays trying to deal Roy Halladay. There is a need for Wren to get Soriano, and to an extent Lowe, traded as soon as possible, so that he can focus on the never ending pursuit of hitting.
[UPDATE: 3PM]
Ken Rosenthal says the Tampa Bay Rays and the Astros are the two teams trying to trade for Soriano. Earlier in the afternoon we learned that the Angels and Orioles were out of the running. The Astros may fall out of contention, as they instead may land Matt Lindstrom from the Marlins.
0 recs |
377 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
I don’t think it should be that hard to move Soriano. Its not like he is terrible or way overpaid.
Lowe on the other hand will be tough to move.
Lowe is coming off a 15 W season…..shouldn’t be too hard.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Moving his entire contract will be hard.
by blitzerlover on Dec 9, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Swapping Lowe + 2 mil/year for, say, Adam Laroche at 10 mil/year for 2 years + 3 mil/year extra to spend on other players would still be well worth it for the Braves.
Yeah, the Braves will eat some $ either way. Be optimistic. We’re talking about Frank “The Negotiator” Wren, here. And proven starting pitching can be hard to come by in this market.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
He’s signed for 1 year and he was well liked before accepting arb. I would prefer not to deal with the Astros simply because their minor leagues are horrible and outside of Hunter Pence they have no young players I would want. I would trade him for Juan Rivera and a low level prospect. The Angels would have a great bullpen and we would get a good hitter.
They have Jordan Lyles. I would do Soriano for him straight up.
Doubt the Astros would do it, but I can dream can’t I?
by blitzerlover on Dec 9, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
You can dream, but be prepared for others to say that you are an idiot no matter what the trade is. Long story, short: Theres always that one punk that disagrees with you (I’m him alot, not in this case)…
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 9, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
I'll be the guy this time.
Soriano is signed at about market value. Rivera is signed well below it. No chance we get Rivera for Soriano, and certainly not a low level prospect thrown in. Hell, I would throw in a mid-level prospect going from the Braves to the Angels to get Rivera.
As for Jordan Lyles, it would make no sense for the Astros to give up what little young talent they have for a one-year closer rental. Maybe the are idiots (how else do you end up with that bad a farm system and a mediocre major league team), but that would be the only way this would happen.
The Angels are in need of corner OFs,...
or so they say. I doubt Rivera is available as you’d assume the Angels were planning on Abreu—Hunter—Rivera from left to right. Apparently the same goes for Wood, although maybe adding say Kelly Johnson which would let Macier Izturis while KJ splits time with Howie Kendrick might help alleviate their need for more IF and a corner OF.
The Braves didn’t jump the gun. They liked Saito better as setup man for Wagner and they quite reasonably thought Soriano would decline arbitration to seek a multi-year deal. According to reports, Soriano should be traded pretty quickly anyway. The Braves aren’t in on the big free agent hitters (Holliday, Bay) either. In another week or so, we’ll hardly notice the difference between what happened this week and what might have happened if Soriano had declined arbitration.
Does anyone think the angels would be interested in a soriano for rivera trade?
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
Of course they would
w/ their outfield situation, in a heartbeat. I would hope for a better player than Rivera, who barring a career year last year is pretty unspectacular.
well in earlier years he’s showed signs of being able to put together a year like he did this year, but this year was his first full season pretty much, so it could be a sign of things to come, i’d be ok with that trade i think
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
What about the Angels outfield situation...
…would make them want to trade Rivera? They have Hunter and Rivera and who?
Bobby Abreu is signed for 2 more years and if they move Rivera, it opens up a spot for GMjr, who with his terrible contract isn’t likely to be moved.
With Shield’s ineffectiveness last year, Soriano is more than just a luxury for them.
Forgot about Abreau...
…so that makes three. Unless the Angels are giving up, however, they have no intention of playing Matthews fulltime even if they can’t move him. And Soriano is still a luxury as they have plenty of bullpen options even without Shields.
ERA
Brian Fuentes 3.77
Jose Arredondo 6.00
Scot Shields 6.62
Matt Palmer 4.14
Trevor Bell 9.74
Jason Bulger 3.52
Kevin Jepsen 4.83
I don’t know if I’d jump to that conclusion.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/07/sports/sp-angels-pitching7?pg=3
Nope.
Don’t see that happening. Soriano is a luxury for them and Rivera is a reasonably priced player who just had a breakout season. Additionally, they are losing Vlad and Figgins to free agency and need bats—-they won’t want to give up good ones they have.
yeah well that makes sense, maybe if we sent a prospect it’d work, but if rivera could put up numbers close to what he did this year, the difference of a full season with him and not FUGA would help this offense more than alot of people realize
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
On the bright side...
At least we can be relatively certain that Soriano won’t end up with a division rival.
"If I had a little humility, I would be perfect" - Ted Turner
Looks like Wolf is about to be off the market. Drive up that market for Lowe.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
If Randy Wolf gets a contract slightly better than Huddy, then there have to be teams willing to trade for Lowe and his contract. One would think there would be a lot of teams, seeing how Lowe had a pretty bad year for him and still won 15 games.
He did.
A correction to my prior post: the Wolf contract is reported to be 3 years and $29.75mill. That gets a “wow.”
Well, don’t forget this: after Lackey, he’s probably the best available option for teams wanting starting pitching…and probably 20 teams do at some price. Last year, we went into the off-season with Lowe as the 3rd best available pitcher. The difference, of course, is that he’s signed for 3 more yrs.
The Wolf signing really helps for three reasons:
1. He was the second best option without a huge injury risk.
2. He signed for a big chunk of change.
3. He signed with a team that probably would not have taken on Lowe’s full contract, thereby not eliminating any possible trade partners for Lowe.
Plus they took Latroy Hawkins as well..
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/6761611.html
So that’s both a starter and reliever off the market.
Forget Soriano for a sec
Wren really needs to focus on getting some value for Church within the next 10 9 days.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Rules question
If Soriano gets moved soon (I know, you wanted to forget about him), could Church be yanked back from the DFA status?
Creative, but I don’t think so. This isn’t like revocable waivers. He’s been DFA’d. Moreover, I think Wren used the Soriano deal as an excuse to DFA Church and try to establish a market for him. As someone (PWHjort?) pointed out recently, there was plenty of other filler (Marek, Parr, and maybe Redmond) on the 40-man that could have been sacrificed instead.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Thanks. The question was an honest one regarding that status in general, though I figured at the time that the 40-man probably had lesser names that could have been moved off instead. My suspicion was that this was a move to either (a) answer a request from Church; or (b) definitively declare the end of his tenure in Atlanta. Either way, I figured he’s gone.
>> Wren will be on XM next hour. I’ll try and get notes.
We don't even have nine days...
…because we aren’t going to tender him a contract on Saturday.
New Report - Soriano.
Rosenthal reports than “a deal for Soriano might come quickly, but the orioles and Angles are not in the mix.” Of course, the team is a mystery.
Those Bostonians would eat up Soriano with a spoon.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Therefore, ...
he will likely go to the Orioles or Angels. Thanks for narrowing down the market for us KRos.
Orioles, Rangers Close To Millwood-Ray Swap
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/orioles-rangers-close-to-millwoodray-swap.html
That would remove any chance of Lowe going to Baltimore I would imagine.
Starting to question Wren's intelligence...
Last year got a little greedy with Lowe’s contract, the Furcal debacle, AJ, …. now this..
Great point.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
He also got Frenchy TRADED. Nobody saw THAT one coming.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Ya I mean not bad, but really his only super-deft moves that I have seen thus far was getting JJ and later Javier….
Francouer was junk, we got junk in return ….
First off, I was being sarcastic in my response to you. Second, even the best GM isn’t going to make “super-deft” move after “super-deft” move. Wren’s doing much better than you give him credit for, especially because alot of the shit you’re dogging him for is not entirely in his control.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Good point.
Even Schuerholz traded for JD Drew.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 9, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Even though Drew had a fantastic season for us that year, and was one of the main reasons we made the playoffs…it’s really, really hard to not get furious about that trade after this past season.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
+1
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 9, 2009 5:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But at least Drew,...
unlike another player who soon left town for the highest bidder after we gave up a package including multiple quality players, both gave a quality performance AND helped us get to the playoffs. I think, like that other player, we expected the man to take some sort of home town discount due to local ties, and therefore were more willing to deal young talent for what was hoped to be a career Brave. Not saying it was a good deal in 20/20 hindsight, but at least in that one we make the post season, and therefore at least had some small chance at winning a World Series, unlike that deal with the other player.
haha
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Nothin’ wrong with a little junk in the trunk.
So you’re not a fan of the Nate McLouth deal? That was pretty key. Love Nate.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
McClouth deal was o.k. statistically anything was an improvement over Schafer.
“Doing a much better job”, that’s bs, half the people on here were wondering, “Why did we sign Wagner so early….” It wasn’t rocket science…..
If you would elaborate on your points a little bit more it’d be much easier to take you seriously. But instead you just come off as a whiner.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
You can’t take this guy seriously. He made the overly intelligent post the other day that “KJ=BJ”
and, that is a direct quote.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
Uh yeah...
That’s what we needed…a .240 hitter who stopped hitting homers when he got to Atlanta, couldn’t hit a lefty pitcher if he knew what the next pitch was gonna be, and gave up on every shallow hit ball to center field. Love Nate.
BA FTW!
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
And McLouth for a pack of crap, and....
LaRoche for Kotchman straight up. Among other pretty nice deals he’s made.
Are you serious?
We have a great team at a reasonable budget. We have plenty of good pieces to trade and Lowe is not a bad contract if you compare with most of the other FA in the past couple of years. We have a lot to look forward in the future. What is not to like?
KJ SUCKS!!!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
Wren interview on XM
[Buck Martinez, Casey Stern]
Starting rotation is our strength; we need to improve offense.
Prefer RH hitters… particularly considering our future (Schaefer, Heyward, Freeman named specifically) being LH.
In running for Bay & Holliday? No [quick answer]. We prefer to spend our money in pitching since that’s our building philosophy. [interesting.. not sure what to make of that, given current activities to clear salary for a bat]
What about the decision in spending money vs. trying the up-&-coming kids? If the kid is ready, we want them on our club… but we’re cautious, too; balancing act; etc.
Anybody else wanna be with the club for the 2010 last-run-for-Bobby? Yes, he’s heard that sentiment around.
nothing of real significance. I may have missed a few seconds up front.
Astros Close To Acquiring Matt Lindstrom? http://bit.ly/4KDUHS
If that happens, mark that one less suitor for Soriano. They could be using that as leverage though and spreading this falsely.
This would be ideal
Lowe (15M) + Soriano 6.5+ for Swisher 6.75+ prospects (#1 Rule 5 Draft – that Yanks aquired for Bruney trade) If we can completely off load the 15M from Lowe and Soriano’s contract would be a wash with swisher’s. This would be in great position to spend 22M left for the best power bat at 1B/LF and slot Swisher in the other position. There has been reports that DOB mentioned that one team is interested in both Soriano and Lowe which to me the Yanker would be the only team that could add these two contracts.
OMG!?!?
That’s like a rich snob having to drive a Range Rover while his Bentley is in the shop.
(turns nose up)
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Do not do it
Don’t strength the Yankees man they don’t need any help and plus they don’t need Lowe or Soriano but they do need Swisher.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 9, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
ROSENTHAL JUST TWEETED: RAYS AND ASTROS THE TEAMS VYING FOR SORIANO
If the astros get Lindsrtom though, nevermind…….If Soriano goes to the rays, I would say Brignac would probably come back our way, or joyce….Wren told Bowman that they are looking for SS depth
Joyce, another lefty outfielder without much pop and strikes out too much. We already have Matt Joyce’s twin, Jordan Schaefer.
Rays interested in Soriano according to MLBTR...
Any way we can package Sori and prospects for Ben Zobrist??? He can play a lot of different positions and is good with the bat.
If they think Brignac's ready maybe
they’d have to move him to 2b though with Bartlett playing a pretty good SS.
THAT is what this team is missing – a utility player!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
If we had one of those
Then we wouldn’t have needed a below-replacement level player in LF last year, would we?
we have at least 2 that I can think of right now, but no matter who we had on our team last year, that LF would have been trotted out there night after night. Church is 100xs better than Anderson was, but he rode the pine for the whole time he was in Atlanta.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
oh…lol. my b. I missed the sarcasm font.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Buster Twit
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN
ATL asking for solid recent for Rafael Soriano, in addition to having other team pick up $. Unclear whether sometimes bites on asking price.
sometimes = someone
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Buster Twit
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN
But the fact that the relief market is beginning to move fast will motivate the Braves, for sure, to get Soriano off their books.
Whats happening ?
I am starting to worry b/c Wren hasn’t annouced a deal in what 72 hrs if not more, lol.
I am going to hit the paniac button here um… if any of you take seriously you are nuts.
We need to move Lowe and Soriano before we can do anything else that much is for certain and it is nice to hold all the cards in trading.
We have a great closer that we don’t need and a Starting Pitcher we no longer need man it really feels good.
Go Braves & Wren.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 9, 2009 3:29 PM EST reply actions
"I am going to hit the paniac button"
Is that the panic button for maniacs?
maniacs...... or fizzbot
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
+1
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
haha
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
There’s always got to be one ridiculous person talking about how bad the GM is, no matter how untrue that is.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Always
Their team could clinch the Series and their response would be, “They should have won it in 4.”
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
Sorry fizzbot but Wren has been real solid so even though we all are entitle to our opinion I don’t think yours will have much ground.
Yeah, It's way to early to know if he's another Einstein or just a rocket scientist! :)
" If you're going to be accused of something, being accused of being a nice guy is not the worst thing to be accused of."
Mark Richt (November 3, 2009)
tee hee!! ; )P
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
The kool-aid that you admittedly were drinking, but now gave up on after like 72 hours worth of winter meetings? You realize the offseason is not over yet, right?
Let’s try waiting until things play out before we throw in the towel for the season.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Don't Feed the Trolls
It just makes them hungrier.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Sorry…I kinda forget how this whole thing works.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Forgiven
I’ll just chalk it up to rust.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
“You want grape or red?”
“……Red, fool!!!!”
- one of the House Party movies
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah man, you’re the one guy out there who knows the truth. And you prove it with one line rejoinders that have no basis in reality and are never backed up with fact. The truth is out there!
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Just how much did we delay addressing the lineup?...
Bobby’s recent comment on the subject aside, just how quickly were we going to add that bat without having a trade?
It looks like we are letting the market settle for both 1B like LaRoche and Glaus, or OF like Derosa, Nady, Dye and others. I don’t think we were gonna start the dominoes with Bay or Holliday, so we’d likely be in the same position now on position players with or without Soriano.
Interesting.
WEDNESDAY, 3:33pm: ESPN’s Jayson Stark tweets that the Braves are no longer asking for veteran bats for Lowe, and are telling teams they’ll eat money.
Honestly I never thought we’d get a useful vet piece for Lowe. Everyone knows we’re sloughing him off to save salary, and unless two or more teams got desperate enough to get in a bidding war over him I think our best case scenario was maybe a risky but high-upside prospect, not a blue chipper, so that part doesn’t really shock me. Telling folks we’ll eat salary is telling, though, because as recently as yesterday they were talking like they had enough interest to move him and 100% of his salary, so that part isn’t good news.
MLBTR says that
Orioles might need a reliever now…
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/orioles-rangers-close-to-millwoodray-swap.html
Rafael Soriano deal could get done today, sources say. Rays very interested but balking at $ and player(s)
Also, dont trade javier vazquez.
Well, I think we ought to talk them into eating the $, even it costs us getting players in return. If we’re gonna be eating salary we better be getting a Zobrist or something back, not a fringe piece/roleplayer.
I doubt
the rays would trade zobrist especially after the season he had.
by JasonHeywardisGod on Dec 9, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
I do too
I’m just pointing out that we’re not gonna eat money and get nothing. If they want to lower the dollar figure, they’ve got to offer more than a bucket of balls, if they don’t want to give up decent players, they need to eat the money. You can’t balk at both and expect your trading partner to take you seriously, something’s gotta give.
Rays have a top farm system
I bet we get a brignac or someone in the inf for the future.
by JasonHeywardisGod on Dec 9, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
I certainly hope so. I want Soriano gone as much as the next guy to free the money back up, but we can’t let some team be all miserly about it and expect to get Sori handed to them on a silver platter. I’m OK with eating a couple or three mil, but it has to be because we got something worthwhile for doing so. I just balked at the indication they wanted us to pay him to pitch for them for no good reason.
No kidding, especially when Soriano has been one of the top RP’s in all of baseball over the past several years. Of course, health has been his only issue.
For his only issue, it's been a pretty big one...
games pitched are….
40—6—7—53—71—14—77.
Looks like he’s only healthy every other year.
True, but that still doesn’t justify us getting virtually no return while eating money. We’ll do one or the other, but Tampa’s gotta make up its mind which its gonna be.
If I were GMing Tampa and set on getting Sori, I’d give back a decent prospect if the Braves eat a couple mil. They’ve got a great system and wouldn’t hurt much from losing one or two prospects, and that way their limited payroll doesn’t have to increase. But who knows what they’re thinking.
Rosterbation, but on topic...
if that’s the problem, how about Soriano and Schafer for BJ Upton? Would we? Would they? Replacing Upton with Schafer (or Zobrist until Schafer is ready before heading to the IF or perhaps left if they find the package they are wanting for Crawford) saves them the money offsetting Soriano, we get a starting OF of McLouth—Upton—Diaz, until Heyward is ready, then reshuffle depending on who’s producing.
Since we're rosterbating
Checked what the guys on the Rays’ blog are saying, just out of curiosity. Only thing they’ve got is a suggestion that we’re talking Soriano/Schafer for Carlos Peña.
Well, that’s a better major league piece than I thought we’d be able to land, but I think I’d prefer a prospect if that option is on the table. He’s certainly got power, but he’s AVG and OBP have declined for three straight years, so that power might evaporate at any time. That risk may be why they’re willing to send him to us, but if that’s the case I don’t think he’s worth giving up Schafer also.
HA!
The thick plottens. The hooligans on that blog are now bouncing around the idea of Scafer Sori and Freeman for Carlos. Talk about overvaluing your own player.
i mean, its just the Rays’ version of us guys, its not the front office or anything. But that’s an extremely lopsided deal.
Yeah. That's bad.
Soriano for Pena is probably too much in our favor. Adding Schafer probably makes it close, depending on how much you value Schafer. If you think he makes it, that is too much. Adding Freeman is about 5 bridges too far.
Our firstbaseman of the future
For one year of Carlos Pena at $10 million.
I’d have a really tough time with this by itself, much less throwing in more pieces.
Isn’t Carlos Pena a FA after the 2010 season? Soriano and Schafer might be too much for one year of the guy.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 10, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
lol
Why not throw in Kelly? lmao
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I just want something to happen
all of this anticipation is truly killing me lol i want to know who is our lfer and 1b next year already!!
by JasonHeywardisGod on Dec 9, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think Zobrist is a little much to expect for Soriano
in any scenario.
Also, dont trade javier vazquez.
Yeah, it won't be Zobrist, but the Rays...
…have plenty of young players who could work. I doubt we get an A-prospect, but I’d be happy with a B-prospect for Soriano assuming they pay the full salary. A B-prospect who already has his signing bonus is probably at least worth a supplemental pick and a second rounder like we likely would have gotten if he declined arbitration.
For Zobrist
I’d throw in Prado, Osuna, and Spruill. He plugs in immediately at 2B for us.
But I doubt they’d do it.
Spruill would have to be pretty high up there...
on the untouchable list. He’s not Heyward, but he’d be up there with Teheran.
Ben Zobrist
Led the world in WAR last year. Perhaps he’s a tad flukey, and he’s certainly a lot less valuable as an outfielder, but yeah, I’d give up my 5th best prospect for him, along with a closer, starting 2B, and another solid P prospect.
I think that would be...
buying him high, when the idea is kind of buy low, sell high. Zobrist is good, but I don’t think he’s quite the player he was last year.
The Rays are a notoriously hard team to trade with, i dont see us gettin much from them to be honest, i would just hold onto Soriano than deal him for nothin and pay salary. I mean a few years ago the Rays could have had Tex, but they didn’t want to deal any good specs from what i heard and if they would have sent just one good legit spec(if its a good enough spec Wren prolly takes that deal but it doesn’t matter cause they didn’t want to offer nothin good) then they might could have gotten Tex and would have had a great chance at winnin the WS with that extra big bat i mean they lost like 3 or 4 games in the WS by 1 stinkin run, im sure Tex makes a huge difference but whatever its the rays…
braves#1
I think that's the sticking point now.
Either they eat Soriano’s full fare or they give us something of value. We won’t give him away for free with money. And that is smart. Soriano’s contract isn’t that bad—I am sure we could give him away without eating money elsewhere.
Someone explain this one to me
We’re close to a deal, but we’re not agreed on 1) Money or 2) Players.
What else is there that we’re close on?
Picture a couple of drunk frat boys playing the parts of FW and AF
AF: Yeah, we’re totally interested in Soriano
FW: Yeah? We’re sooo gonna trade him.
AF: Sweet!
FW: Dude!
AF: Yeah, this deal is sooo gonna happen.
FW: Yeah, it’s gonna happen.
We've agreed they want Soriano.
I am not sure how that takes it from “they’re interested in Soriano” to “we’re close to a deal” however.
Gammons confirming Lindstrom to the Astro's...
I’m still saying it’ll be anti-Rosenthal, Orioles or Angels.
Crawford...
Did the Rays accept his Option for 2010? If they didn’t couldn’t they just accept it and trade him right away? They probably won’t have the money to retain him this year so they are probably looking at trading him. I think there was rumors before am i correct? I don’t know how much his value is but its probably dropped because he is a FA after this year but Soriano and his don’t share the same value i believe. Sp any remotely chance we could get him?
They picked up his option.
That much was a no-brainer. Rays are still hoping to sign him long-term last I heard. Since he has plenty of value, they are in no hurry to trade him. If they get to the point where they realize it will never happen signing him, they’ll move him then.
ok
yea i didn’t see that they picked up his option.
I just want this Lowe/Soriano mess to END
Either trade them and get something very useful or just move on. The suspense gets worse the longer this drags on.
Bowman tweet
We don’t view any particular club as s frontrunner, but we spoke to at least 6 clubs about him today. Angels Os and Astros are supposedly out, but that leaves 2 more teams besides the Rays, so maybe we won’t have to settle for Tampa lowballing us.
Yahoo’s Tim Brown wins the award for Blindingly Obvious Tweet of the Day: “Rays talking to Braves about Soriano.”
That guys is the worst.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
Wherever he goes, I’ll still miss Raf. He’s a beast of a closer. And I can count on one hand how many times I’ve seen him smile.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 6:39 PM EST reply actions
lol. I know, I know. I’m just saying, Regardless. I would have liked to see him closing in the World Series for the Braves.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
Could..
the Cubs be another team? They really have tried to resign Gregg.
Dunno. I suspect one might be the Red Sox, there’s been word that both they do have interest and they’re not interested in the slightest, but I’d bet that means that we’ve at least spoken to them.
How could the Cubs and Red Sox NOT be interested?
I remember talking to some Cubs fans a while back that were nuts about Soriano. He’s all they talked about. NUTS.
Who knows..
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Approximately 20 minutes after Soriano’s decision was announced, Wren received an e-mail from an interested club. This interest grew as Atlanta’s GM found himself fielding a flurry of phone calls and meeting with at least five clubs on Tuesday.
The Astros and Red Sox are believed to be two of the teams that will show the most interest in Soriano. Wren said he doesn’t believe it will take long to get a deal done. In fact, he seemed to indicate it could be completed within the next week to 10 days.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think
are one of the other teams. I was going to say Derek Lee but bc he is a FA at the end of the year and then i looked at his stats and it was ahhh No. Any would you guys would do Raffy for Milton Bradley if the Cubs ate some of his contract?
Ugh. Let’s not go there.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, no frontrunner
Braves don’t currently view any suitors for Soriano as a front-runner. Spoke to at least six clubs about him today.
Bowman tweet.
Back to square one
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
Just let ‘em sleep on the fact that he’s available to close.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 6:53 PM EST reply actions
Crawford
I wish the Braves would try to put together a package for Carl Crawford. He’s a great corner outfielder and he could probably hit lead-off.
by NaturallyCynical on Dec 9, 2009 7:55 PM EST reply actions
Bill Shanks offered up some good Rays prospects that we should target. All pitching:
Matt Moore- 20 yrs old, went 8-5 in single A, 3.15 era, 123 I.P., 176 SO
Jeremy Hellickson- 22 yrs old, went 9-2 overall in AA and AAA, 2.45 era, 114 I.P., 132 SO
Nick Barnese- 20 yrs old, went 6-5 in single A, 2.53 era, 74.2 I.P., 62 SO
I think any of these guys would be a great get for Soriano
Call me crazy, but I seem to remember us being up to our neck in pitching. Why is he not suggesting bats for us to go after?
Because the Rays...
…are deeper in excess pitching prospects than hitters and that’s all we would get.
I doubt they would part with any of those guys. Moore is their number 4 prospect, Hellickson is number 2, and Barnese is number 7. Hellickson and Moore have ace potential and Barnese has mid rotation stuff.
I’m thinking more Reid Brignac for Soriano or Sean Rodriguez and a low level prospect for Soriano.
How bout Sean Rodriguez and Jake McGee, who just came back from tommy john but had great stuff from the left side? McGee’s command will probably limit him to a reliever but he could be useful and maybe more gettable than some of the Rays’ other prospects.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Dec 9, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t realize McGee actually played this year, he’s always hurt.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Has he had anything major, other than TJ? Looking at his numbers, he made 26 starts apiece in 06 and 07, which were his first two seasons in full season ball, then blew out the elbow midway through 08.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
I don’t think so. I guess I just feel like that since he was hurt when I was supposed to see him with Montgomery in 07 and then he never showed up in Durham in either 08 or 09 despite being on their roster for most of the year.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I would imagine he will be at Montgomery to start the year in 2010 so maybe you’ll see him then. Before he got hurt, he wasn’t all that dissimilar from Aroldis Chapman. Big live FB, weak command, and undeveloped secondary stuff.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
I’m guessing he’ll probably be at Durham, since that’s where they’ve wanted him for a while. Yeah, he’s one of those guys I hear is good but don’t really believe exists since he’s never there.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I might wet myself if we get Rodriguez. He probably represents the best-case scenario return for Soriano, b/c if he lives up to his hype he’ll outperform any current MLBer we might get for Soriano.
Of course, for that very reason, I fear we won’t come close to bringing him our way in this deal. Perhaps if we throw in Schafer to give them another OF to go along with their new closer, maybe, but it would seem to me that he is more or less the Heyward of Tampa right now- that is, a prospect that appears to be so good that there’s no deal worth shipping him out of town.
Trade Rafael Soriano...
In other news. This video is soo fuckin funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM_UtrUXPPc
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
Alright, square two
Rays talking to Braves about Soriano.
Tim Brown Twitter
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
now thats just uncanny. I gave you a whole hour… especially because I was gonna post this at 9:30 b/c Law and Order was so bad. You gotta step your game up
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
You misunerstand… you didn’t scoop me, you reposted. Look above…
Yahoo’s Tim Brown wins the award for Blindingly Obvious Tweet of the Day: "Rays talking to Braves about Soriano."
by J-Freak on Dec 9, 2009 6:08 PM PST
Rays and being calm is needed for everyone.
Seems like everyone just needs to breath a-little b/c Wren knows what he is doing as does Bobby Cox. Everyone breath and take a day off from looking at these rumors and just enjoy life.
Wren is going to get it done and it is going to be a play/players you never heard off.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 9, 2009 10:24 PM EST reply actions
If only the Panthers shared your wisdom, grasshopper.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 9, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll bet my Christmas bonus that we will have heard of the player he brings in…unless of course, you mean it will be a player that nobody is talking about us getting.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
it is going to be a play/players you never heard of
That seems highly unlikely. Heck, I’ll make a bet that I’ve gotten an autograph from whoever we get for Soriano.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
DOB Tweet
Sounds like Braves-Rays could finalize a Rafael Soriano deal as soon as tomorrow morning.
Dammit, this is why I hate effin twitter. Completely devoid of details.
HA!
Snooze ya lose, but now buttafuco down there is on my case >:(
Sweet
But where are we going to get a broomstick, an octopus, and and axel grease at this hour, Brain?
By a minute!
And i’ll take every second of it, thank you very much. ;)
Wow. I wonder who’s coming back the other way?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
I’d love that. As long as we don’t pick up the tab on Soriano.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
as much as we know Wren has Balls, Tampa doesn’t have much payroll, so i feel as though we have to pay some
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
I’m keeping my fingers crossed for Sean Rodriguez.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
MLBTR says Astros signing Lyon to maybe a 3-year deal? Consolation prize for losing out on Sori?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
And Harden is off the market too....
seems like Lowe will be one of the few available starters left by the end of the meetings.
Good….Good
(in Dr Claw voice…)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 10, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
HAHA! That was in my head too, but I didn’t think “roach-like bug from family guy” would ring as many bells.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 10, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
It could be prospects...but would the Rays...
Try to move someone more expesive like Pena? I don’t think we are going to get a high end prospect given the situation but I could see a type of salary swap….and they aren’t going to give up Zobrist, Upton, or Crawford….but Pena’s value has lessened….and he is the last year of his deal?
From the Braves perspective he does have some Power…plays a good 1B…and one has one year on his contract left.
Not likely but a thought.
As I mentioned somewhere up there earlier, his slash stats have declined for 3 years now, his Ks are up and his walks are down. He’s dangerously close to the infamous power hitter collapse a la Mo Vaughn where, because his other skills diminish, pitchers aren’t afraid of him, pitch him better, and that power evaporates in a hurry. It’s happening to Pat Burrell right now. I’ll definitely pass on Pena.
Not saying it is a move I would want...
I am just looking at things thinking that it would make sense on paper for a variety of reasons…especially if the Rays are short on cash.
I have ulcers watching Pena play…and I am not even a Devil Rays fan…but I think he is a piece that the Rays no longer need. When he came over a few years ago he hit .250 or so with 40hrs he was the centerpiece of their offense. However, with the e emergence of Longoria and Zobrist (why can’t we get lucky like that….why can’t we trade for a borderline SS/Utility guy…to have him become a slugging infielder on the cheap?) along with Crawford and the hope of Upton….they really don’t need Pena and could survive with Aybar at 1B if they had to.
They also don’t need Brignac, especially with Tim Beckham coming soon.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Brignac is Brent Lillibridge, but without the speed.
We don’t need him, and getting him would be a total waste. I don’t understand why people around here seem to think he’s so great.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 10, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
Cause he’s a really freaking good ballplayer. I’ve probably seen him play over 50 games the last 2 years and I’d be pretty happy if he was the return for Soriano.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I can’t comment on his defense (so I’ll assume it’s stellar because you do seem to like the guy), but he’s got a career .785 OPS in the minors, with the OBP being only .337 of that. Most of that is bolstered by his first couple of years in A-AA, and he’s been going downhill since. I guess that’s good for a slick-fielding SS, but don’t we already have one who hits better than that?
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 10, 2009 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t expect him to play SS, or even to be a starter, but he’d be a great super sup around the infield, and he’s definitely athletic enough that he could be used in the outfield. I will say that he had a wrist injury in 08 that killed a good part of his season (a lot like Schafer’s) and he bounced up and down a little in 09 that probably got him off a little while he was in AAA. But what’s important to me with the numbers is a .042 point jump in average from 08 to 09, along with a .028 point jump in OBP. He’s a very solid hitter, and yes, a very good defender, not top of the world, but solid and athletic enough that he should stick at SS. I just think he’d be a nice return.
But, it looks like it’s going to be Jesse Chavez, which is…much worse than Brignac.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Fair points, although with a BAIBP of 253, he could be expected to improve a bit next year in wOBA, perhaps offsetting the decline. He’s had wOBAs of 374 each of the least two years, which is not too damn bad.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Soriano for Pena
I think it might be a fair trade, Soriano for Pena, straight-up. Pena costs ~$10MM this year, Soriano will be around ~6-8MM, both are one-year rentals, and both are likely to be type A FA’s next year. The Rays would actually be freeing up some cash if they did that. I don’t know what their 1B situation looks like behind Pena, but if their plan is simply to save money, it seems like a decent enough way to do it, and both plays fill a need for both teams.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 10, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
In related news
Wren trades Fred Hickman to Heaven for Jesus and an Angel to be named later (ATBNL).
On Jon Morosi’s twitter page he says the trade sending Soriano to the Rays is nearly complete and we will likely be receiving Jesse Chavez.
I would hope that another player is also coming because the guy is a middle reliever and even at that he seems like a garbage time player. If its just him its a salary dump all the way.
I understand the the Braves don’t need Raffy so they may just want to free up money, but I would have at least expected them to get a young prospect or something. This guy is garbage. What is Wren thinking?
60% of the time, it works every time
imo
I would of much rather went with a s**** offense than get trash for Soriano.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I would much rather want Akinori Iwamura
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
Chavez was the semi-prospect the Pirates give the Rays for Iwamura, which was clearly just a salary dump. They got rid of Iwamura’s contract for a warm body, and now they’re passing off that warm body to us.
I guess it’s kinda funny when you look at Chavez as having been traded for a total of ~$12MM of salary relief… so far.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 10, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
What. The. Hell.
The Rays should be paying us f’ing money for that deal.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 10, 2009 1:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're telling me
There better be like a caption that says either “just kidding” or “Derek Lowe is also going to Tampa”
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
and...
Desmond Jennings is coming along.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 10, 2009 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
If all we get back is Chavez this will have been a terrible turn of events. Yeesh. It’s not even like he’s young and talented, he’s just an average fringe reliever.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Sounds like another Stephen Marek type….just WOW
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
I think a lot are putting way too much into the injuries he has had to deal with and not much stock into how dynamite this pitcher is against opposing batters. I didn’t expect an Albert Pujols in return, but Jesse Chavez? are you kidding me?
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
So if all Wren could get for Soriano and his contract is this trash
I cannot wait to hear/see the offers Wren has gotten for Lowe….OMFG
If that was possible
I think that would be big improvement over this deal (not saying I really want CC).
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Shit
We might as well just keep Soriano for 2010 if all were getting back is Jessie f’ing Chavez.
Total horseshit. Let’s pray FW has a big deal lined up and just needs to free up some cash before he pulls the trigger.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 10, 2009 1:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I would like to think that
But then again this is FOX Sports we’re hearing this from. I don’t think DOB has mentioned anything about the return.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
Possible silver lining here
If this deal is true, and all we get is this BS reliever, then this is a 100% salary dump. If Lowe is also salary dumped for prospects, then the Braves will have a ton of cash.
Maybe this is all geared towards a big signing? Matt Holliday?
60% of the time, it works every time
Don’t get your hopes up, they’ve had 0 interest in Holliday. If they anticipated freeing up money to make a run, they’d at least be doing the DD on him just to see how the market is developing and if he’s worth the investment.
I don't know about that
I mean Wren also said at one point last offseason that he had no intentions of signing Lowe.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
What other reason could there be?
If he can dump Lowe’s contract onto another team, I think going out and getting a Matt Holliday would be the only thing that would these shrewd moves worth doing.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
ALBERT PUJOLS.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 10, 2009 1:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
guys im usually positive and optimistic about trades but if the Jesse Chavez for Soriano is true then someone PLEASE talk me into liking the trade cause i absolutely hate it and see absolutely nothin good about it. And please tell me money is NOT goin TO TB please pleas please!!!
braves#1
Man, if we are paying money for this sack of crap, I think we have to shoot FW. In that situation, fuck the Rays, we’ll keep Soriano thank you very much.
I am sooooooo shocked right now man i dont know wtf is goin on, i cant believe he would just deal him for basically salary relief that makes no sense thats extremely stupid. i just dont know
braves#1
I’ve been riding the Wren bandwagon for awhile now, but after hearing this I would like to burn the piece of shit down (not Wren, the wagon ;)
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
I feel better for standing at the station, but not actually climbing aboard. I’ve been cautiously optimistic about him, and mostly happy with his moves, but I never drank the kool-aid to the extent a lot of people have. This one will cost him big in my book if true.
I loved the Javy one, even when I first heard the deal and that Tyler Flowers was included. But it’s when heard what Wren had to give up for McLouth that had me thinking, “I think we might be in good hands”….
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll be honest, I wasn’t thrilled with the Javy deal when it was made, but I’ve changed my tune.As far as McLouth goes, I give him credit for not giving up much, but I also take away points because it’s McLouth. He really wasn’t what we needed, and he didn’t make much of a difference, although he was an upgrade over Schafer’s struggles before I get harpooned for that…
I disagree
Because before his presense, we were resorting to the likes of Anderson, Blanco, B. Jones and Francoeur as alternative in the outfield (not to mention Anderson). That my friend is a joke of an outfield, especially for a team that I think “wanted” to compete and remain competitve throughout the remainder of the season. I’m not saying he has that Teixeira aurora about him (not many do) but he did bring an edge to the lineup that was needed and like a lot of baseball people would say, his presense in the lineup was of MLB quality. Not the AAA/AA garbage we’re so accustomed to seeing from the group of guys I mentioned before.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
Well of course he doesn’t have a Tex aura, you’d have to be nuts to expect that. GA kept playing anyway because he apparently sold his soul to the devil in exchange for playing time, and church was a measured improvement over Frenchy, but Nate didn’t really do much. He hit more homers than fill-in like BJones or Blanco would have, but he still hit like .250.
BA FTW!
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
there's only two ways this trade would be plausible
one, wren got rid of Soriano’s entire contract and has the intention of using that any funds he has now and what he might get back in a lowe trade to get something big
two, well there really isn’t no other reasonable explanation.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
how are we gonna get anything big for Lowe? When we got crap for a guy in Soriano that just has a 1 year deal and is a good closer?
braves#1
no no
I’m saying if we can atleast dump his salary, even if we get a Pete Orr in return, we can still use the combined funds for something good atleast. Other than that, I just don’t see the reasoning in trading either one for that matter. If all you can get is this “great” reliever, than I really have to question Wren’s motives.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
Haha
Me too. Check the sig
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 10, 2009 1:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
if what Morosi is reporting is true tomorrow morning
is it safe to assume you’ll be changing it :P
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
dump Lowe
and then that frees up (with Soriano) 23 million.
18 of that can go to Holliday
5 + 3 in reserves can go to LaRoche for 2 years.
that, my friends, is a team that will go to the Series. Which one, I’m not sure, but we’ll be in the postseason.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 10, 2009 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
McLouth
Prado
Chipper
Holliday
BMac
Roachy
Diaz
Heyward
Yes, please.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 10, 2009 1:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I really don't think LaRoche would be an option for 1B
If the Braves somehow got Holliday. The only likely scenario I can envision it happening is if for no other reason, his services are not wanted anywhere else and that I do not see happening.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
This screams "salary dump."
It’s almost like Wren went, “just get him out of here so I can get back to the REAL work.”
which is pathetic in a way
it’s not like Soriano is a headcase like bradley and has little value.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
I can't believe I stayed up for this shit
Night, all.
I’m gonna go pray that this isn’t true and hope to see something else tomorrow morning. Jesse Chavez? Really? Sonuvabitch.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 10, 2009 1:20 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Ah
I mean, what’s he gonna do for us? AAA filler?a 5th inning guy so on the one night a month that one of our starters doesn’t go 6 innings, he’s ready to pitch?
I don’t get it.
Okay, I’ll stop ranting now.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 10, 2009 1:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
No, he'll just be like the reliever
We got in return for Josh Anderson and the other one we got for Kotchman, you forget who they are and how we got him a year from now. That’s how pathetic this reliever is, seriously.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
WOW so basically we gave up our first rounder to the Red Sox for Wagner, then signed Saito, then Soriano surprises everyone and accepts arb then we deal him and get shit in return? SO wow unbelievable… Lets hope Wagner stays healthy for the year or WOW…
braves#1
Anybody else wanna come out and defend him accepting arb now? I though at the time it was low, and when he asked for a trade less than 24 hours later I knew he was a dick. 2 draft picks just turned into a non-tender. Fuckin’ whoopie.
imo
I think this a 50/50 thing between Wren and Soriano. Yes Soriano could of been the “professional” and just declined arbitration, basically saying he has confidence in himself and his agent that there’s a better deal through free agent. BUT, on the other hand, Wren also didn’t have to take the risk of him accepting by not even offering him arb. If anything, I would of liked to have seen FW try and negotiate a 2-3yr deal with him. Would of looked a lot better that way (even with all the injury) than just netting us the “great” Jesse Chavez.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
Wren prolly could have waited another week to have signed Wagner i doubt alot of teams were breakin the door down especially considering they would have had to gave up a First rounder, very depressing right now…
braves#1
Wren was gambling for sure when he signed both Wagner and Saito so quickyly, especially without even knowing if Soriano would be accepting. I know Soriano was going to cost a pretty penny through arbitration, but i think it’s safe to say Wren would of not shopped him so hard had he not signed one or both of those relievers soon.
**sry for the run-on, just furious right now ;)
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
thing is if Wren would have waited at least we wouldn’t have signed Wagner and gave up our first rounder and used Soriano as closer again cause its not like Wagner was cheap anyway, i want ONE person to give a great reason why its a good deal at least to give me false hope lol
braves#1
Obviously, we wanted Wagner
We didn’t want to wait and have him sign with someone else. He is an injury risk, but has been an incredible relief pitcher for years. Soriano is also and injury risk and has been an incredible relief pitcher for a couple of years. Making the exchange cost us our first rounder, but we’ll get (probably) a supplemental and a second-rounder for Gonzo, so it all evens out. Yeah, it would have been nicer if Soriano declined arbitration, but he had every right to accept and call our bluff on offering it.
Sure, I'll defend Soriano accepting arbitration.
He did what was best for himself. He was a free agent. He didn’t owe us anything. We did a “dick” move and offered him arbitration which lowered the salary he could get in the market. He turned around and accepted, returing the favor. We moved him in a salary dump. Bascially, we are no better or worse off than if we had not offered him arbitration. We took a shot at getting draft picks and failed. It was worth a try because there was no downside.
I do want to say that while it is also on MLBTR, Morosi is the only person that I can find that is reporting it. So it might not be true.
that is a silver lining (the only one right now)
because he does also work with the “best” Ken Rosenthal
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
agreed
I can’t believe I checked MLTBR so often for this. And I have a final at 8 am.
gay
60% of the time, it works every time
That sucks
My last final was today, I was really hoping for a nice cap to the evening. Instead I got a flaming pile of dog shit.
same here, but you never know
We could also see a heading saying, Braves get rid of Lowe and all of his contract………..ok, maybe I’m stretching it a bit but who knows right?
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
why would we
take a pitcher for a pitcher? even IN a salary dump. it’s not like we don’t have any. i’m calling bullshit on this. i would venture to say it’s an A/AA positional player with a bit of projection.
Fronk? I would LOVE to get Brignac (where would be play in Tampa?). that would make my day. but it ain’t happening.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 10, 2009 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
I didn't really want Brignac
If anything, I was hoping for a guy like Crawford or Pena. Not realistic, but at the same time, I didn’t think a guy like Jesse Chavez would be too.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 10, 2009 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
Dear Frank Wren
You fucking blew it. Congratulations. Now please add Andrew Friedman to your do not call list. It’s embarrassing watching a grown man get bent over and reamed like this.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Jon Heyman tweet
top reliever rafael soriano traded to rays, pending medical review, sources say.
doesn’t say for what, so everybody hold your breath a little longer. GOD I FUCKING HATE TWITTER!
Ya know its payback i guess for us screwin the Mariners and gettin him for nothin basically, paybacks a bitch…
braves#1
Some good news
Rays to pay all of his salary, but still no word yet on Atlanta’s return, other than Morosi’s guess.
This one isn't hard to figure out.
Chavez should just legally change his name to salary relief. That way his trades this off-season could officially read Iwamora traded to the Pirates for salary relief and Soriano traded to the Rays for salary relief. Wren actively shopped Soriano. I would assume that he did not refuse a better offer. We need to move Soriano and Lowe quickly while the hitters we want are still unsigned.
Chavez has been traded for a total of $12MM in salary relief so far. He’s a warm body to justify handing off an expensive player to another team, and he’s apparently better than that than at pitching.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 10, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Talking Chop
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
