Trade Ideas/Rosterbation
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2009 11:58 AM EST
380 comments
Other one got closed so here is a new one =^)
The Braves have locked down the back end of their bullpen with the signings of Saito and Wagner last week.
On the agenda still:
=> Trading Lowe/Javy. It's already been said the Braves dont want to trade Kawakami.
=> Finding that RH bat at either 1B or in the OF. Wren says he has about 10-12 names.
=> Trading Soriano now that he has accepted arb.
=> Fill out our bench if KJ and Ryan Church are traded/non-tendered.
Lets hear you guys' ideas
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I figured i would put my ideas down here in the comments instead of in the original post.
What about some of these trades:
Scenario 1:
Soriano and Church to the Yankee’s for Swisher. Then start Swisher at 1B and put Diaz in LF with Heyward in RF.
Scenario 2:
Trade Lowe along with another player or so for Brandon Wood. Start him at 1B. After Chipper retires and Freeman is ready put Wood at 3B.
Also what about signing Garrett Anderson again just as a bench player. He wouldn’t be to bad as a LH pinch hitter. 1mil-1.5mil sound ok?
only as a PH option. Basically replacing Norton.
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
THIS...
plus what are the chances Bobby wouldn’t still play him every day, or that he wouldn’t complain being a bench guy?
Better, cheaper, and at least capable defensively. Brandon Jones, Gregor Blanco, Jordan Schafer, Reid Gorecki, Ryan Church, among others would all likely be better options, and at least the first 4 would be cheaper.
i never said he was the best. i said he was an option. If he is told he will be brought back as a bench player there shouldnt be any complaining
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Over a million bucks for a LH pinch hitter? Wow.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 8, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
since we clearly paid 800,000 for someone last year who is worse
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
1) 800k is less than 1mil
2) Norton was more valuable than Anderson last season
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 8, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
You’re on the “I don’t want to kill Norton” wagon too? Are we like, soul-mates?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Or stat nerds who make it sound like they never actually watch baseball, just sit around picking out random periods of time to make their statistical points.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
If the random period of time is the entirety of last season than yeah, I guess you’re right.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
He was a pinch HITTER...
not pinch WALKER.
I’m not anti Norton, and think he got screwed with no real playing time unlike 08 when he got some spot starts and hit immensely better. But the fact remains, he was a pinch HITTER who didn’t hit the ball.
You’re complaining about the fact that he has the ability to come off the bench and get on base. Cool.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He sure was a pinch HITTER in 2008, you know, when he got more regular playing time.
He led the league in OBP for pinch hitters last season.
Now, if there is a runner on 2nd and 2 outs, Norton would not necessarily be my choice to bat (although, not making an out is important). But, if I want someone to get on base, Norton would be my pick nearly every time.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Ugh
Are you kidding me? We’re actually arguing for a guy who couldn’t hit above .200? Fine, yes, he got walks. But he can’t take his cane out there on the basepaths so he’s virtually useless on first unless we pinch run or get a homer…oh wait, we don’t hit homers. What’s the point of a pinch hitter who’s useless in RBI situations??
You’re actually telling me that for 800,000 dollars, we couldn’t find a single player in the entire world that could hit OVER .200. Give me a break. Norton sucks. He can’t hit a fastball above 90 mph.
I don't hate Norton that much
that .360 OBP is useful, but any baseball player worth paying should be able to hit above the Mendoza line, and Norton couldn’t. So I see your point, but he wasn’t useless.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 9, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Norton had less than 100 ABs this past season. In 08, he had quite a bit more than that and was the best pinch hitter in baseball.
How ‘bout you focus a little less on things that mean nothing, like batting average, and a little more on things that do matter, like OBP – even though it isn’t on the scoreboard.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
I still say for a pinch hitter...
it’s about a hit, not just getting on. In pinch HITTING, batting average means something in my eyes.
Just because stat geeks tell you not to place so much importance on AVG. and ERA doesn’t make them completely unimportant. If Norton were some speedster on the base paths or something, or if he were playing on a regular basis, then I would put a lot more importance on his OBP. But we frankly put him up there in a lot of situations where we need a hit, not just a walk. It basically makes him useless in most RBI situations. It’s really not too much to ask for a major league player to hit above .200. Pinch hitter or no.
I have learned that the point of an AB is to not make an out. Norton did that better than any other PH in the game.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
This.
I’m not saying walking is a bad thing, I’m just saying his OBP does not make up for his horrible average. I agree with you that if we would’ve played him more, he would’ve hit for a higher average and gotten into more of a groove, but I’ve never been confident watching him walk up to the plate.
Remember...
…that a pinch hitter is often pinch hitting for the pitcher, so walking does get the lead-off hitter up. That all being said…
…Norton’s .501 OPS and almost unbelievably bad 39 OPS+ are pretty much impossible to ignore. He sucked. So did Garrett Anderson. Comparing the suckitude is pretty pointless. Neither will be back and that is a good thing.
I mean...
…the OBP is nice and all, but Norton slugged a whopping .171. For comparison, Derek Lowe posted a .498 OPS, and 35 OPS+ with a SLG of .156. He wasn’t as good as Norton, but comparable. At that point, it is pretty much a total waste.
You guys are the people who are carrying on the conversation. If it’s so pointless then shut the hell up. It’s not like any of you were even in the initial discussion.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Hard to shut up...
…when people make obnoxious responses with dashes of profanity to you.
If you find the word “hell” offensive you should probably just leave the site now. It doesn’t get any better during the season.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
You should hear me talk, lol.
I don’t find it offensive, but when it is directed at me by someone who is wrong, I am going to respond. ;)
Cool story, bro.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 11, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
They do, however, improve the situation from the AB the walker got.
You’ve got the same number of outs and more men on base. What could possibly be bad about that?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I think we’ve crossed wires SB, I’m not down with Norton, I know he was bad, it’s Joe and Justin that want to say there was something worthwhile in his stats.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
There was something worthwhile in his stats…he had a .360 OBP as a PH for us last season. I understand he wasn’t hitting crazy PH bombs for us or anything like that, but the ability to come off the bench cold and not get out should not be ignored.
And according to WAR, which I know you don’t care about but bare with me, he was just as valuable in his limited action as GA was the entire season.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
No, I’m coming around on things like WAR (but never UZR), but really, isn’t that a comment on how bad FUGA was, not Norton’s usefulness?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Haha, true…my original point before it got all convoluted was that signing Anderson as a LH PH for $1mil is stupid considering that we had a LH PH for $800k last season that was as valuable as Anderson in far less playing time.
It’s a pointless discussion, really.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Norton does make a good point in my mind on pinch hitters...
PLAY THEM!
Coming in cold for a game is one thing, coming in cold for the month, like Norton was routinely doing, is another. Compare 08 to 09 with him. 08 had several spot starts here and there, maybe a handful a month, and he could hit. 09 was purely pinch hitting with I think maybe 3 or 4 games ALL YEAR where he had multiple plate appearances. How do you ever expect him to find his stroke when he only sees major league pitching 8-12 times per month? Whoever we have on our bench, I hope they get 3-5 starts every month.
This. I was saying all season long that Norton needed a start or two every now and then – even when he was like 0-20 or something. The only way out of a slump is to keep hitting.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Norton being just as much WAR as Anderson...
…does not say anything good about Norton. Remember that WAR is wins above replacement. Both Anderson and Norton were below replacement value. In almost full-time playing, Anderson was a 1.0 wins below replacement, meaning his WAR/playing time was probably better than Norton who put up a -0.9 WAR in limited playing time. Unless WAR factors in playing time. I have no clue.
AGAIN…you’re taking my statement completely out of context. Read before you post.
I’m completely aware of what WAR is, I don’t need a lecture from you.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
If your point was...
… they both suck, then I totally agree. It was hardly a lecture, as I admitted by the end of my post that I wasn’t even sure of what I was talking about. No amount of money, not even the major league minimum needs to be wasted on either. Comparing them is pointless—-Norton was a pinch hitter who was only marginally better at hitting than our pitchers and Anderson, wow, he sucked, too. That being said, Anderson’s horrible negative value was in his fielding. As a pinch hitter, he would have just been horrible, not the horrific flaming pile of dung that he was when we threw him out in the field. So, yes, Anderson would make a better pinch-hitter than Norton did last year. (If Norton had played the field, assuming he was not a plus fielder, which I don’t think he is, he could have sucked worse than Anderson, I think, if such numbers can be looked at long enough to compare.)
And, no, I don’t think I took your post out of context, and I did read it.
Go to Fangraphs and look up what really did in Anderson’s season. It wasn’t just his fielding.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Don't get me wrong...
…his (GA’s) hitting was crappy, too. I just don’t think it was as crappy as Norton’s, although it was a higher negative. Given the difference in plate appearances, however, Anderson had a less negative runs above average per plate appearance. That being said, they were both so bad, being below replacement, that they could have been both improved with AAAA guys like Gorecki or Canizares.
That being said, they were both so bad, being below replacement, that they could have been both improved with AAAA guys like Gorecki or Canizares.
That was my entire point to begin with. It’s stupid to pay $1m for a pinch hitter when he have cheaper, better options available.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Just fyi...
Gorecki is not currently “available” unless we bring him back on a minor league deal (which I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to).
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 10, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Not to ignite a dead topic, but WAR does factor in playing time. So Norton was as valuable/invaluable as Anderson in a much smaller role. Of course had Norton been given a bigger role, or Anderson a smaller one for that matter, and the outcome could have been very different.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the info
As I noted above, I had no clue whether it did or not.
I’ve ever been a fan of Norton. Did we just become best friends?
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
I think so. I am going to get you Adam Dunn for your birthday!
(That would be like getting my wife a plasma tv…it’s “hers” but we know that I sure as hell am going to enjoy it too!)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve kind of soured on Dunn since he didn’t hit 40 bombs this past season. What a jerk.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
wait…are you saying I was right? Because, I was saying that you were right…
Great. Now we are like a freaking married couple.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
I’m kidding. Dunn had another very good season (offensively at least), but wasn’t able to hit 40 HRs for the 5th season in a row. Think he would have been the first person in history to do that…could be wrong though.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I think you are right. Bonds hit 40 or more 4 seasons in a row, McGwire never did it either, but he did hit 50 or more in 4 of 6 seasons at one point.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
You wanna go do karate in the garage?
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Dec 9, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
+1
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t EVER touch my drumset.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
“DONT TOUCH IT!”
“Okay, okay. I won’t.”
“That was a 6… You don’t wanna see me at a 10. Now get your shit, we’re goin to my room.”
In Frank Wren I trust.
Ugh, man, dont get me started. Long story short I won’t be getting it till Christmas, so I’ve been making due playing on my friend’s account. But I am counting the days, believe me. You?
I feel sorry for you. IT’S AMAZING.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
360
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
BORING
Left 4 Dead 2 is all that matters.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
We’ll see.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
There is another rosterbation thread...
http://www.talkingchop.com/2009/12/2/1181825/oh-the-weather-outside-is-frightful
Just sayin is all, as that one is starting to fill up.
oh wow.
i apologize. def never clicked on that thread. i saw the name and figured it was something talking about non baseball stuff
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Trade
What would all of you think about this trade with the White Sox;
Derek Lowe, Nate McLouth, Rafael Soriano, and a couple Mid-Level Prospects
for
Carlos Quinton, and Paul Konerko
I think this would really help both clubs. This helps Chicago by giving them the 5th starter they’ve been looking for. It also gives the a quality bullpen man and the center fielder that they have been looking for for quite some time.
It helps the Braves by giving them two impact bats from the right side, and clearing some salary.
that deal would have the white sox picking up about 15 million in salary i believe, i dont think they’d be down with that
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
Konerko
has a massive salary (i think). The Sox pick up the $ but they would have a seriously nasty rotation. That allows them to bring up Flowers to DH and with Beckham, they have the makings of a pretty good offense.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 9, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Blanco until Schafer is ready, unless Schafer tears it up again in Spring Training and wins the job outright.
Barf.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
. . . .
no thanks. i just wanted to hear the full roster after your proposal
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
My thought
posted this in another thread, but..
trade Lowe, Soriano and KJ for prospects.
Sign Holliday or Bay, preferably Holliday
Get Fernando Perez from the Rays, put him in CF and let him leadoff.
Sign Rocco Baldelli as a backup at OF/1B/PH.
Actually a good cheap power bat would be Jonny Gomes, his D is better than he gets credit for…at least better than Adam Dunn. He’d probably be good for .270 w/ .330 OBP and 30+ HR’s playing everyday.
Would love to see Brandon Phillips at 2B.
by Blue or CONKZILLA on Dec 9, 2009 4:16 AM EST reply actions
That way...
…at least Gwinnett would be killer. You’d have Schafer and Heyward down there all year and you might as well send McLouth to join them since you filled Atlanta’s OF with Holliday, Perez, and Gomes. Matt Diaz, too. Good lord, Gwinnett’s line-up would be better than Atlanta’s!
I am glad that you aren’t running things.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I would love to see more than just “get X Player” or “sign X Player”, I’d like to know what kind of numbers and what kind of prospects you think the Braves would have to give up to make this happen. Because it seems to me like they’d have to spend a lot and give up more than they have.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
LOL..."at least better than Adam Dunn?"
Is that like saying somebody’s more alive than a dead person?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Probably worse.
A corpse would probably field better than Dunn.
I don’t think the Braves have to get into a bidding war over Holliday or Bay. The Braves have four very tradeable assets that won’t really hurt our team by leaving. At this juncture, as much as I’d like to see Vazquez stay, he could bring us the left fielder we need.
I am of the opinion that I would rather keep KJ and second and Prado play first if it means we can make a trade to get a left fielder. That, to me, is the one major spot we simply cannot fill internally right now.
Not a very intriguing rosterbation idea, but it’s a novel concept…
Why don’t we just save the money that we get from unloading Rafy’s and Lowe’s contracts, spend it on a right handed 1B (not sure who really)…and then put Heyward in RF. I honestly think he can be the bat we need in the outfield and he comes as a much cheaper and home grown option. I think he’s good enough to start now. Plus we can mix Schafer into the lineup if he shows he can hit now that he’s healthy. I honestly don’t think we need to waste our money on some over the hill overpaid OF.
It would be a nice idea...
..if there were a great right-handed first baseman available. I am not aware of one. LaRoche and Delgado are both left handed. Glaus is right handed, but really a third baseman and an injury risk.
well
apparently we are looking at Nady as a 1B option
by drumzalicious on Dec 10, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
We could do that.
I don’t think Nady’s that good—-and he certainly shouldn’t cost the amount of Lowe or Soriano, but I am afraid that is what we are considering since Wren is talking about a guy who can play 1B and OF.
I agree ...
to some extent. I am so underwelmed by the names that most here are talking about…Swisher, Luke Scott, Nady,et all. For my money Frenchy looks good compared to these guys. I say we trade Lowe and Soriano to teams that can provide us with some depth in the farm,and for heavens sake sign Rochey for at least 1 year and look at the market in 2010. We can win this with LaRoche, Mclouth , Big Mac, Esco, and above all a healthy solid Chipper.A dash of Prado and Matty D. and Heyward in June. A starting 5 that can outpitch you night after night. I am hoping and trusting Wren doesnt just settle for the kind of mediocrity being tossed out there.
/closethread
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
25 man...
you assume Lowe or Vasquez, and Soriano are gone.
That leaves near certainties of:
McCann
Ross
Prado
Infante
Escobar
Chipper
Diaz
McLouth
Hanson
Jurrjens
Hudson
Kawakami
Vasquez/Lowe (one goes, one stays)
Wagner
Saito
Moylan
Medlen
O’Flaherty
18 names, leaving 7 more, perhaps Kelly Johnson or others cut that number down. At least 1-2, if not 4 or 5, come from our current minors—Valdez, Kimbrel, Hyde, etc are pretty much locks to somehow form the bottom end of our bullpen, and then there’s Heyward, Schafer, Canizares, Jones, Blanco, Young, Hernandez, et al, putting at least 1 on the bench, if not more with 1 in the everyday lineup.
We’ve got a little more tinkering to do, but not much to be honest. A lot of it is just waiting to see what we can get for Lowe/Soriano/KJ, and then seeing how the market for 1B and OFs shakes out. It’ll be pretty boring for us outside of a small handful of days over the long, cold winter months.
He said FYF is as good as Swisher or Luke Scott. This thread needs to be deleted from the internet.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
No
that was fair. FYF on a baseball field right now is like Joe Morgan in a broadcasting booth…
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 9, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
I had such faith
You spelled McCann, Prado, McLouth, and Jurrjens correctly, then you killed it with VaSquez, so sad, so sad.
VaZZZZZZquez
by BravesRaleigh on Dec 10, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I mean what would the Braves want with a guy who posts an OPS over .800 (both swisher and scott), are both perfectly healthy, and signed to reasonable deals/arb eligible?
by McCann's the Man on Dec 9, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
wow.
i mean i know we are all entitled to our opinions but wow.
by drumzalicious on Dec 10, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Soriano for BJ Upton?
Coming off a bad season and is arb. eligible. Braves may need to take on some salary and/or throw in a prospect, but I could go for that. Not the big, middle of the order bat perhaps, but still a nice piece if he can put it together, and he is only 25.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 9, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
On defense alone, Upton is a 3 WAR player. Unless Andrew Friedman went in for a lobotomy I’m not aware of, he’s not dealing Upton for a one-year RP rental.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Probably not
which is why I mentioned the prospect and throwing in money. He is a guy the Braves should want at the very least. Never said he was available.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 9, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Also
he was rumored to be available midseason before the Rays sent Kazmir to the Angels.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 9, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
After I re-read your post, it seemed more balanced. Still, I don’t think the Rays part with Upton unless they’re blown away, at least not until Jennings proves he can hit in the bigs. Also, getting BJ would block Schafer, but I guess if you can snag a guy like Upton, you do it first and ask questions later.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
To quote a dear internet friend of mine, justincredibul02
NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!! NO!!!
NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!! NO!!!
NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!! NO!!!
NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!! NO!!!
He had a bad year after leaving Citizens Bank Bandbox and is slower than BMac. He can’t field and is only under contract 1 year.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 9, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In 2007, Pat Burrell...
…posted a defensive season significantly, let me repeat, significantly worse than Garrett Anderson did in 2009. (-17.4 UZR v. 11.6 UZR or thereabouts). We want absolutely nothing to do with him playing a position in the field. Honestly, if we took Burrell for Soriano, they would give us a decent prospect too. That still wouldn’t be worth it for the Braves.
I guess it is possible.
In an Adam Dunn sort of move. I will note, however, that Dunn has turned out to be a horrifically bad first baseman, too, and would not expect much more from Burrell.
Soriano, Freeman, plus one for Pena and Upton? Rays shed payroll while filling an immediate need (closer) and solving a further off one (a 1B of the future) in addition to another player (ie medlen, spruill, etc). We get the power we’ve been looking for (pena) and upgrade our defense immensely with upton who pushes McLouth to one of the corners. Not saying this is the deal that’s near being finalized as it seems a little too complex for it to have come together so quickly but if we could somehow manage to get both Upton and Pena w/o moving Schafer or Teheran I’d be thrilled.
by McCann's the Man on Dec 10, 2009 12:12 AM EST reply actions
or we could include some money along with soriano and end up giving a lesser player than a medlen, in fact I’d prefer that option. Trade Lowe while eating no more than 5M a year and that should all fit in the budget and fill all the holes of this team, would be an impressive roster too
by McCann's the Man on Dec 10, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Ok and now lets think like a Rays GM, would you trade your big power source Pena, and one of the most talented young outfielders for a one year rental RP, a prospect first baseman who is not yet tearing it up in the upper minors?
I would be thrilled if we get Pena and Upton don’t understand me wrong but there is absolutely no reason for the Rays to do such a trade as mentioned
by Dutch Braves Fan on Dec 10, 2009 5:25 AM EST up reply actions
There's actually no reason for the Braves to do it.
Why would we give up our 1B of the future for 1 year of Pena? Not worth it at all. We need to be thinking long term, not short term like most teams do, Freeman should be just as untouchable as Heyward, we have no other option at 1B, and the free agent picking is quite slim. Bad trade for the Braves.
by BravesRaleigh on Dec 10, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
This entire thread makes my face hurt.
I’m gonna sit in the back and listen to Speedwagon till Frank the Wrench has us set.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Dec 10, 2009 3:26 AM EST reply actions
Mike Jacobs?
Looks like the Royals just released Mike Jacobs. While, I’m not thrilled with sticking a guy the Royals cut into the Braves lineup, he could be a cheap space filler that has the ability to hit for power.
I can’t figure out what the Braves options are at first base. I’d love to have Laroche back. If he’s not coming back, I’d rather Prado play first and go get a left fielder. But, if there’s a cheap option that comes along, maybe it’s worth a look
If he can be had for under $3m....
I’d definitely be willing to take a flier there. Not the best fielder or hitter, but he certainly has some power. For a cheap deal, not a bad option.
He's not someone you want as your starter.
Presumably, we will have some money now that Soriano is off the books and some of Lowe’s salary will be coming off. There are many better options than Jacobs as a fulltime player—-he has power but is horrific at making contact and getting on base. As a power bat on the bench he makes some sense at the right price.
Yeah,
I would rather take a flyer on Delgado, which would be cheaper and has a higher upside.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 10, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Considering their past salaries...
I doubt Delgado would be cheaper.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 10, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Considering you can call 2009 a lost season for Delgado
He shoudn’t cost more.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 10, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
He'll cost more.
Delgado will get someone to pay him $6-$7 million (the Orioles if nobody else) possibly more. Jacobs, who has sucked, shouldn’t cost more than $1 million or possibly $2 million under any circumstances.
by cavebird on Dec 11, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jacobs hit 32hr for Fla in 2008
Career avg only about .250. 2009 salary $3.275 mill, but since KC just released him, that number goes down. He had a lousy year adjusting to being a DH, but I’d bet he might be happier as an everyday 1st baseman. I think this a very reasonable filler if he’d take ~$1-2mill. He’d likely hit 7th or 8th… Biggest problem? Bats Lefty.
I thought his biggest problem was having a below Garret Anderson OBP, but yeah, the lefty thing isn’t ideal either.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Depends...
we have plenty of them in the starting lineup, but how about off the bench? We have Ross and Infante right now, but both are righties and it doesn’t look like we have a solid lefty bat for pinch hitting.
Or say we can get him and Glaus for the same price as Soriano was slated to get, giving you insurance in case Glaus gets hurt/can’t play 1st, that makes for a nice platoon option there.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 10, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Glaus was at $12 mill. last year…. though hurt. Might be tough to get him for $6mill. 6 games at 1st base during minors rehab last year.
Using past salary to predict this year’s salary doesn’t work well for guys like Glaus and Delgado who basically didn’t play last season. Considering the market’s emphasis on youth combined with these players’ injury history, that $12 million salary for Glaus means very little.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Payroll Status
As I add up all of the payroll considerations or 2009 and projections for 2010(this site was especially helpful), I am guessing that $105.08 mill was spent on salaries in 2009 (reports were around $96.7m on opening day).
[guessing total of $4.8m paid for 1B; $3m for RF); uncertain about whether Huddy was insured for his $15.5Mill… if so, cut ~$10m from that 105m? Wasn’t sure how to add all of the $400K MLB Minimum guys that came in and out. Several added; several omitted].
As of today, I add up contract projections (actuals, plus reasonable guesses for increases for players under control) that total to $94 million. Chipper went from $11m to $13; Huddy down to $9m; KK down by $1m, McCann up $2m. Wagner+Saito are almost identical to Soriano+Gonzo (before Wagner incentives). Glavine is off the books.
Lowe’s contract is for $15.0m this year; JV for $11.5m. Pieces technically missing at this point: RF (Church), 1B (Laroche) and 2 bench bats (Norton, Anderson). All of this extremely unofficial, but ignoring the actual figures, it seems there has been a net reduction – so far – of $11m (thank you Huddy; most of the rest is Church, Anderson, Norton, KK, Laroche).
But in comparing apples to apples, if the payroll budget is equal to that of 2009, Atlanta already has $11m available plus whatever they can drop off via Lowe or Vaz. That’s a lot better than I expected.
If Huddy was insured last year (likely), then that $11 becomes about $1mill and my surprise is reduced accordingly.
I started doing that myself a few weeks back
but never finished it because I didn’t have the time. Good job. However, I think the Braves are planning on going into the season at $94 again.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 10, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Am I a horses ass for suggesting we go after Mike Jacobs for a bench role?
The Royals just released him, but he’s got monster power (when he hits the ball). Seems like a cheaper Russ Branyan type who could provide power off the bench and at 1B if necessary. Thoughts?
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Dec 10, 2009 4:17 PM EST reply actions
He will cost too much for a bench role
in all likelyhood, and I don’t like him as a starter.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 10, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be down for Jacobs
always like him, not that expensive, can be very useful.
by BravesRaleigh on Dec 10, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
For all the Cameron lovers...
prepare to be disappointed. Sounds like a nice market is forming for him, including the dreaded big spenders of Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox. Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest to see someone offer 2 yrs, or at least more than the Braves would be willing to spend. Looks like we’ll have to find our right handed bat and 3rd OF elsewhere.
Cameron has stated publicly that he wants to play in ATL, so what do you think the chances are of him accepting a lesser offer from us if one of the big boys offer him a 2yr/$20m deal?
Probably pretty slim.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
As I have been saying for weeks.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
In that case, good for Cameron...
…he has been perpetually undervalued and deserves a payday. All of the above suitors and still question marks however—-the Cubs have to move Bradley and not get an OF back, the Yankees have to not sign Damon or Matsui (since they already got Granderson) and the Red Sox just ate $9 of Lowell, presumably to sign Beltre, so they might not be in, assuming they sign Bay or Holliday. (They would then have Bay/Holliday + Ellsbury + Drew).
I was thinking about Chris Davis. The Rangers just traded for Lowell (how busy have they been???) and with Young firmly entrenched at 3B and Blalock and now Lowell to man 1B, I think they might be willing to move Davis.
What do you think about Lowe +$3-5M for Davis?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 10, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
Gimme.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Dec 10, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Why wouldn’t they just DH Lowell and keep Davis at 1B?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Because they have Blaylock doing either 1B or DH.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 10, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Blalock's an FA
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Oh yeah…I was thinking that he had arb. this year for some reason…well then, replace Blalock with Smoak, and we still have Davis available…I think….
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
I think its improbable for several reasons, the primary one being it doesn’t really fill our need.
Wren, I think, will go for a full salary dump, if possible, of Lowe in exchange for 1-2 mid-level type prospects or a serviceable major league ready piece for organizational depth; so as to be able to afford to really go on the search for an established batsman who is more than a stopgap, halfway measure. In the worst case, he has ample financial capacity for a significant mid-season, trade deadline trade.
Chris Davis is going to be a monster.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 10, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
if he can ever learn to hit
off speed stuff.
but they DO have Smoak in the pipeline (and, by all accounts, he could start today for them). Davis could be had for a young, projectable arm.
could a Minor for Chris Davis deal work?
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 11, 2009 6:24 AM EST up reply actions
heck...
could a:
Minor + Gearrin + KL
for
Justin Smoak
work for you guys? I know we have Freeman, but he could be used to get us an OF bat. AND Smoak is going to be a MONSTER.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 11, 2009 6:28 AM EST up reply actions
meant
KJ
and yes i know it’s a lot to give up…but it’s a rosterbation thread….
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 11, 2009 6:28 AM EST up reply actions
What the hell is Texas going to do with KJ? They have 2B well covered by a guy who’s pretty decent.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Platoon!
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 11, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Good idea. They’ll play Kinsler on the days they need offense, and KJ on the days they don’t.
(Just kidding, justin, no need to jump in.)
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
lol…I guess I have made my point clear around here…
: )
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Smoak
I very much doubt they want to start the season with Smoak at 1B. They pushed him very fast in 2009, and he did reach as high as AAA, where he was completely overmatched.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
He had a good September, though...
.306 AVG, 5 HR, 19 RBI in 27 G
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Why would Soriano bring in Jesse Chavez and the 45 million obligation toward Lowe bring in Chris Davis, a young run producing bat with great projection?! Altough he had his share of difficulties in the majors last year.
Besides like others mentioned, the Rangers do have a DH spot. Lowell might benefit from being a dh with his recent injury.
by Dutch Braves Fan on Dec 11, 2009 4:04 AM EST up reply actions
There is a difference between Apples and Oranges.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
The DH spot? Crap! How could I have forgotten about that! Oh wait, I didn’t…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
Blalock is a FA...
but they do have Justin Smoak waiting in the wings, so C Davis may be useless unless they expect him to play DH. Then again, with his inability to make contact he may be useless anyway.
unless we want Smoak
and i think that he can be had…
for the right price.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 11, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
Smoak would be a great pick up...
but would likely cost Freeman and a couple young arms. Considering both he and Freeman are unknowns with high ceilings, there’d be no point when you see you’d be getting little more than you gave up but had to add extras since Smoak is closer to MLB ready.
I wouldn’t mind doing that at all, as I have a little more confidence in Smoak than I do Freeman.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
We need to Un-Lowe-d
But I don’t really see where we can dump his contract.
Right now, I’m all for signing a cheapish fourh OFer (who provides positive value on defense) and playing Diaz/McLouth/Heyward in the OF next year. We can then spend the rest of our effort pursuing either LaRoche or Delgado to play first.
Here’s a list of cheapish OFers we should be considering (in no particular order):
Endy Chavez
Randy Winn
Coco Crisp
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Rocco Baldelli
Marcus Thames?
What about adding this guy to the OF mix? He’s got power. 20 or so HR’s last year while only playing part time.
He's not good defensively
And while he did 25 HRs in 2008, he also posted an awful OBP of .292. In 342 PA’s, he made 248 outs.
A career OBP of .306 makes him hard to stomach.
Bill Shanks says: Braves need to go get Nady, Atkins and Swisher
and should be able in fit all three into the budget.
The article is here.
I so like the idea of having Atkins…I don’t know why, but I do.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
that article is garbage
Sign Nady, Atkins AND trade for Swisher? Give me a break.
So…once Jason Heyward and/or Schafer come up, we’re going to have 6 men to take up 4 spots. You really want that? The guy acts like “oh, we’ll just throw those guys on the bench.” Right. Cause we want a couple FAs we just paid millions of dollars for to sit the bench.
I’d be fine with Nady as a 1B, but getting Swisher and Atkins is a bad idea.
Give me Cameron in CF and Nady at 1B.
McLouth/Diaz – LF
Prado
Chipper
Nady
BMac
Escobar
Cameron
Diaz/Heyward – RF
Now that is a good lineup.
In Frank Wren I trust.
I'm on the Swisher bandwagon next year
see my post below. I think he could due for a career year, and a league switch might be the spark for that. He can play either first or left field, depending on what we need. Just not sure the price is right. I don’t want to have to give up too much for him. But they’re one of the teams for whom Derek Lowe’s contract is not a concern, so if there’s a chance we could unload Lowe AND land a hitter like Swisher, I really, really think we should explore.
The Rockies non tendered Garrett Atkins today. I know he’s coming off a bad season but he had a run of 3 good seasons. If we could sign him to a 1 year deal with a low salary and high incentives to play 1B I think it would be a good move. I don’t think that moving to 1B would be a big deal for him he’s played 105 games there.
In a healthy season he should hit .290/.350/.450, with 20-25 HR’s.
Future 3B replacement too.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Eh
Atkins is coming off two season of below league average OBP. OPS of .780 (just below average) and .650 (well below average). And he’s the beneficiary of some Coors Field help as well. Home/away splits are pretty wide. I’d rather not have to settle a guy whose such a risk/reward guy at first base. We could end up being forced in playing Barbaro if he’s not healthy or is just bad like he was last year.
I like Swisher, if he’s truly available and affordable. He’s generally an above average outfielder, and he also has experience playing first, so we can sign him and decide where to play him later, based on what other signings we make. His bad season in 2008 was the result of a suspiciously low BABIP, and his BABIP last year, when he had a pretty good season, was still lower than it should have been.
Assuming he doesn’t suffer from bad luck again, he could easily post .260/.380/.480 for us, and maybe even better. He wasn’t the beneficiary of the Yankee Stadium boost last year-he was a much, much better hitter on the road, so his power from last year is certainly repeatable. He’ll be 29 next year, I think he’s due a peak season boost, and might have a career year coming. Unfortunately, I doubt he’s as affordable as some are saying.
I really don’t think that Swisher is available. They have Granderson in CF but Nady, Damon, and Matsui are free agents. They also have Cabrera but they traded for Granderson to replace him. They would like to bring Damon back but they want to offer something like what Abreu got and he wants 3 years $13M per. They haven’t made any effort to resign Nady and they don’t really want Matsui back because he’s a full time DH now.
This.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 12, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
My dream “might have a chance of actually happening” off season at this point would be to trade Lowe for Swisher and sign Cameron.
You and me both.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 12, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Completely agree
Now that Kelly Johnson has been non-tendered, it frees up an obvious need for another infielder. If the Braves are going to spend money on a backup, I’d rather us try and get a guy that can play the corners.
Atkins had a pretty weak season in 2009, so he might come cheap. We know Chipper is getting to the age where he’s simply not going to play 150 games. The Braves are going to need a guy that can make starts at third base. Infante may be that guy, but he’s more useful at a number of other positions, I think.
If he even plays moderately close to what he did in 2008 and before the Braves could get a steal. As long as Cox is the manager, the term “backup” really doesn’t apply. Cox probably uses his bench as much as anyone in baseball.
If he plays moderately close to what he did in 2008...
…he’ll be useful for the 3-4 games we play in Coors and craptastic otherwise. His 2008 numbers outside of Coors were pretty brutal.
According to MLBTR
We’re trying to trade KJ before the non-tender deadline tonight at midnight EST. If we don’t trade him, we’ll non-tender him….which would be a huge mistake.
KJ still has lots of value and we could get a decent prospect or two for him.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 2:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Just wondering
is there any specific reason that has been publicly said on why we’re not at least talking to Jason Bay?
He’s a right handed OF power bat, only 31, and has put up great numbers his whole career.
I know he doesn’t play great defense, but I’d trade in below-average defense for a power hitting righty.
In Frank Wren I trust.
We don’t need Bay. We have Prado, remember?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
Bay's Defense
is #$%$ing horrid.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 13, 2009 5:58 AM EST up reply actions
The Reds have non tendered Jonny Gomes. He’s a corner OF who hits well. Last season he hit .267/.338/.541 with 20 HR’s in 281 at bats. Could be a consideration for the OF.
Is that the same Gomes that came up with Oakland?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
apparently
the braves might just be looking for a 1B. Been reading that they will basically leave the door open for Heyward to start the season in RF.
What about the bench?
I hope FW doesnt overlook it in his search for a bat because right now all we have is Infante and Ross on our bench.
Ryan Garko non-tendered by the Giants
Not great stats this past year, however away from SF he hit .289/.357/.467 and against lefties he hit .308/.391/.479
Could be an interesting backup plan at first
R.I.P Jazz #6
haha, twice now what I was just about to post had already been posted. Garko’s pretty solid, I would definitely be open to signing him. My preference among players that were non-tendered would be Atkins with Garko being a close second.
by coldriver10 on Dec 13, 2009 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
I just worry about atkins splits away from coors his power doesnt seem to change much but his OBP and Slugging sure do.
Garko is someone who i would be more interested in because he would be a lot cheaper than Atkins. Before going to San Fransisco he was doing pretty well. I dont know that he would be that great clean up hitter-esque player we are going for but he would be a solid bat to fill in at 1B.
Personally i wouldnt mind seeing Swisher at 1B
by drumzalicious on Dec 13, 2009 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
I know we’ll be waiting until Lackey signs so it could take awhile to trade Lowe but once Lackey signs I think that Lowe will go fast. There’s no doubt Lackey is the better pitcher but he reported to be asking for 5 years $80M. He’s younger and has better stuff than Lowe but Lackey hasn’t thrown over 200 innings in 2 years. There’s also quite a few teams that need a SP. MLBTR mentions the Angels and Mariners as 2 possible destinations for Lowe. I think that both teams have other options ahead of Lowe but they still could look at him.
The Angels really want to bring Lackey back but teams like the Mets, Rangers, and Mariners will all be bidding for him. After Lackey the Angels will look at Halliday. They have the pieces to bring him in but they have said that they won’t make a trade for him if they can’t sign him long term. Lowe is probably their 3rd option.
The Mariners will be bidding for Lackey but with an ace already in place they may elect to go a cheaper route and sign someone like Washburn who was very good for them last year. Their still looking to spend money and i think that Lowe would be very good in that ballpark. That’s why I think that Lowe gets traded to the Mariners.
I believe that they would be willing to part with Mario Martinez who is a 3B prospect. He’s blocked on their team by Figgins and Alex Liddi. Martinez is only 20 years old and just made the move to A ball last year. He’s rated as their 11th prospect. They might part with Liddi whose their 6th prospect but I doubt it.
You gotta go for Liddi, right?
You know, open up the Italian player market?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
hmm
Matt Capps anyone? I believe he would solidify/finalize our bullpen.
Wagner
Saito
Moylan
Capps
EoF
Boone Logan
Insert Long Relief option here.
Then let Medlen start in AAA.
i saw that too
we should go sign him if he’s cheap. He could be a solid 7th inning guy for us and a super-backup plan if all hell broke loose and Wagner, Saito and Moylan all got hurt.
In Frank Wren I trust.
They’re not gonna sign any other “recognizable” names for the pen. They’ll take guys on cheap minor league deals but that’s it. They’ve got Wagner, Saito, Moylan, O’Flaherty, and Chavez as the main guys and the last two will be worked out in ST. It just doesn’t seem likely they’re going to sink any more money into the pen.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
having him does seem to ...
contribute to my why not another spot than RP debate. But que cera, cera. I was for Capps earlier, but like you say, considering those guys, Abreu, Proctor, and others, if we sign a recognizable name I hope it’s a lefty like Ohman or Mahay. Wagner doesn’t count imo as a closer is what they are regardless of hand, and I’d like more than just EOF as an option when we want to get a lefty/lefty matchup.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
actually...
just noticed we tendered Boone Logan, so we’ve got that extra lefty covered I assume and that should be it for relief pitchers except for minor league deals.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Why thank you.
Your astute commentary and detailed analysis are greatly appreciated.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Completely unnecessary. Demanding a reason for saying no to Matt Capps is like demanding a reason for why you don’t want Herpes.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 21, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
hello? we do have some needs other than the bullpen, you recognize that, correct?
as loyal rosterbaters, we really need to focus here on our team’s priorities.
obviously, one could say the exact same thing about the starting pitchers, the top of the order, the middle of the order, the up the middle defense, the bench, etc.
by fandave on Dec 13, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you think trying to sign a reliever like Capps is really shifting our focus away from our priorities. he won’t exactly have a ton of bidders or demand a big contract
In Frank Wren I trust.
is Capps gonna accept a minor league deal?....
not to belabor the point, but we have more than enough options for 6-8 bullpen spots and unless Capps gets no interest more than minor league deals (doubtful at best considering his 07 and 08 base stats), I can’t see any reason why it’d be a good fit. I’d have liked him before Chavez and Abreu, but now add those two to Wagner and Saito, and Proctor, Valdez, Kimbrel, Moylan, Medlen, Logan, EOF, Diamond, Redmond, Hyde, etc, etc, etc. We’ve got plenty of solid arms with the back end covered by Moylan, Saito, and Wags, and more than enough young talent/veteran arms/older minor league starts who specialize in getting grounders to fill out our pen without Capps.
We’re full on relievers after tendering Logan to give another LOOGY option, now it’s time to focus on the OF, 1B, filling out the bench and moving a big salary starter (aka Lowe).
He will be signed as a cheap closer option by someone.
And some teams could do a lot worse. I am surprised the Pirates non-tendered him, he wasn’t going to make more than $3-4 million.
Angels, Nationals, Cubs, Rockies, Mets, Yankees, Rockies, Marlins, Rangers, Orioles.
Yeah, nobody’s gonna want that scrub.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Prize time
GREG NORTON autographed baseball for whomever can get everyone to stop suggesting Matt Capps as an actual suggestion as an adequate bullpen arm.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
some are mentioned above...
non tender guys…
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/nontendered-players.html
I’d love to see the Braves go after both KJ and Church to see if they’ll come back cheaper. Other possible options—Jonny Gomes, Gabe Gross, Josh Anderson, Garrett Atkins, Jack Cust, Ryan Garko, Matt Brown, Josh Whitesell
I would like us to go after Gomes and Garko. Cust can’t play defense and we already had Anderson once. Atkins wouldn’t be a bad option and neither would Gross.
Good call. Very rough in the OF and not a very good arm. About the only positive is the Matt Diaz all out hustle style he has.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I like...
the fact that he is willing to brawl with a guy as big as Shelley Duncan to defend a teamate.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 14, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Really? I don’t even remember hearing about this. And I’d take Johnny every time in that fight, Shelley is big but I’d have to question his heart.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Yankees - Rays Brawl
happened a while back. Duncan slid into 2nd at Iwamura with his spikes up, which is a cheap chicken-shit move in my book. Gomes went and tackled his ass.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 15, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
MLBTR is reporting that Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse has reported that John Lackey will take a physical with the Red Sox. This is uncomfirmed and he is working to confirm it.
What this means for Atlanta is that if he is off the market then Lowe is the next best option and we could see things develop quickly.
I saw that too....
That means that Lowe goes to the Angels or Mariners within 10 days. Even if the Angels give up the farm on halladay then it forces the Mariners hand. The red sox signing Lackey actually gives FW more leverage as the two main suitors for Lowe are in the same division.
I honestly think that with the mariners defense that Lowe is more valuable with them. I don’t see us eating much of Lowe’s contract if any. Depends on what FW has already set up with other teams and the FA’s on the market.
I also wish the cubs would sign Laroche and trade Lee but that’s just wishful thinking.
Five days left.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
this prob means
Either Beckett is getting traded for a bat or Bucholtz is going to SD for Adrian Gonzalez
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
mlbtr says Beckett likely getting extended...
and I think in addition to the Mariners and Angels, this throws the Yankees in the ring. If Boston signs a big starter, they need to too to match.
Can they extend beckett and pay Lackey?
Maybe lackey is a backup plan as the negotiations aren’t going well with Beckett? That’s just an assumption of mine and not something in writing.
they aren't the Yankees,...
but the Red Sox do a better job of having cheaper internal players to balance out the big money contracts. I’d think they could pay both.
But wouldn't Beckett want more than Lackey?
I mean lackey isn’t going to accept less than 15 million and IMO Beckett is better. Does Beckett demand more?
could we get vlad cheap? If so would he be worth talking the chance?
by Braves Equals Life! on Dec 14, 2009 2:52 PM EST reply actions
Doesn't he have problems even walking now?
I think that he would be worse than GA in the field. I don’t even know if he could play in the field? I love the guys attitude, career, and bat but don’t think he fits in the N.L.?
Vlad can’t play defense anymore and while he would still hit for a decent average his power is all but gone. He managed just 15 HR’s in 383 at bats last year.
He played some CF for the Expos.
Maybe the Mets will want him.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Unless their last name is Morales or Rivera, I am pretty much done with players from the Halos.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 14, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Wood
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
ESPN"s Rob Neyer has a piece up about the top 100 players of the decade. Chipper Jones was the highest Brave at 7, 1-6 were Pujols, A-Rod, Bonds, Jeter, Ichiro, and Beltran. Andruw Jones was 20th, J.D. Drew was 22nd, Javier Vazquez was 29th, Tim Hudson was 31st, Gary Sheffield was 34th, Mark Teixeira was 43rd, Rafael Furcal was 60th, Derek Lowe was 64th, Greg Maddux was 73rd, and Tom Glavine was 81st.
He’s a Yankee now, so that bumps him up a few spots. I’m actually surprised he had Chipper as high as he did.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 14, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
No John Smoltz on the list. He is a great pitcher and a no doubt Hall of Famer but the best years of his career were in the 90’s. He had a nice 3 year run as a closer but Rivera makes a living closing games and only made it in at 24.
Larry Walker made it playing only 5 years.
by Dutch Braves Fan on Dec 14, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh
Apparently. Phils getting Halladay. M’s getting Lee.
My guess is one of the M’s young pitchers are going to Toronto instead of Hammels.
This leaves us almost with no leverage against the Angels.
Really wish we could somehow get Brandon Wood out of this.
How is this not good
The Phillies will be locking up a 33 year old Halladay. As bad as that sounds, it is at the expense of a slightly younger Cliff Lee. Meanwhile, the M’s get Lee, and it looks like the Red Sox are getting Lackey.
This leaves the Yankees and Angels SOL for starting pitchers. Derrek Lowe may be the only decent starter left available. This is good.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 14, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
the ugh was more for the philies getting Halladay. at least they dont have Halladay AND Lee. that would be kinda crazy.
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
it is good because it creates a market for Lowe. All of the premium starters are officially off the market. Lowe is the best of the 2nd tier (unless someone really wants to rely on Bedard or Doug Davis). His contract is no bargain, but it isn’t horrible either. And the Yankees and Angels both have a need. I don’t like the prospect of Halladay pitching for the Phillies every 5th day either, but it may well help the Braves with some of their own offseason goals.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 14, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
and
facing Halladay isn’t that much worse than facing Lee. It’s a pick your poison situation.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 14, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
not to sure about that.
Halladay held us to one run and 5 hits over 7 innings. In Lee’s 10 innings against us he gave up 7 Runs and 15 Hits 3 of which were HR’s.
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Eh
Both are aces, both will win games and suppress runs. The Braves have Lee’s number, but they can beat Halladay too. Just because the Braves are good against Lee, doesn’t mean the rest of the league does, and that is just as important.
Meanwhile it looks like the Phils traded Michael Taylor, their top position player prospect.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 14, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I say we take a cheap flyer on Ryan Garko
We could always sign Gomes or someone like that to platoon with him at first. Both of them murder in their splits. That might be a good, cheap solution to our short-term problem at first base.
Gomes would be a great sign. I don’t think he’s even that bad against Righties (he OPSed .859 with a BAbip of .266). Plus his power would be amazing. I’d really be alright with only signing him to first, although a platoon with Garko would be great as well.
Gabe Gross
Gross will be a free agent and would be a very good bench player. He’s a league average hitter in every way, but he is a great fielder in right field.
On MLBTR
they say that the “wait to deal DLowe” is probably over.
They say the Angels are probably among the favorites to land DLowe and could offer Juan Rivera. I’d take him. He’s a fantastic fielder and hit well in 09. I only worry about durabiltiy; his career high in games played is 138.
Hell, if the Angels don’t add a pitcher or two soon, they’re gonna get passed up by the Mariners in the AL West.
In Frank Wren I trust.
Definitely take that deal and hope that Rivera stays healthy and is able to have an average OBP again.
On the Angels’ blog, pretty much no one wants Lowe unless we take Gary Matthews Jr. Hopefully their FO is different
NOOOOOOO!!!!!!
:(
I just saw that too. So this is how you Kelly Johnson supporters felt yesterday.
In Frank Wren I trust.
Cameron deal done
signed for 15.5 mil over 2 years.
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Ah shit.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 14, 2009 9:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
if we get rivera then cameron would have been overkill, just a positive spin
by McCann's the Man on Dec 14, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
well
the problem has been we were waiting on Lackey to sign. Now that he has we can move forward with clearing Lowe’s salary and getting a bat or two
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
yea but
what if we couldnt move lowe? we would still have a hole at 1B and a terrible bench
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
The way the market has developed, there is almost no way that we are unable to move him. And we could have at least maintained talks with Cameron to try to slow down and temper Boston
you're missing my point
no one knew how the market would play out so therefore we had to play it safe and wait.
by drumzalicious on Dec 16, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
If we had interest in Cameron (and he clearly had interest in the Braves) we could have easily told him we were interested, but would have to deal a pitcher before we could make an offer.
He may well have been willing to put off signing elsewhere for a little while to see if we could make it happen.
Wren, however, likely didn’t want Cameron at all.
And have him continue waiting on our one year offer...
when Boston offers him two? We weren’t getting Cameron. Once it went to two years guaranteed, which a player his caliber easily would get, we were out of the running. I know some of y’all got fixated on Cameron, but it was never gonna happen.
We should have offered two.
At the price Boston got him, he was a steal. We probably weren’t going to do that, but a fan has to hope, right?
He's a waste the second year...
McLouth, Diaz, Schafer, and Heyward would all be cheaper. We don’t want him for two years, just one. If he was a 1B, sure, but we don’t need 2 years of an OF.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 17, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
For salary reasons, yes.
Swisher is a minimum $7m more. Go 2 years in, and we’d have 3 easily moved contracts with Diaz (who can also be non-tendered), plus McLouth and Rivera for relatively cheap deals. It would be a much easier situation to sort out.
Right, just to be sure. You think it’s better to bring in an OFer on a 2 year deal, than a guy who can play OF/1B?
But also think that there is no way we would ever sign another OFer to a 2 year deal for a couple of million more a year than Juan Rivera makes?
Who is the OF? Who is the OF/1B?...
and how much for the 2 years? If the question is Juan Rivera and his 9.5/2 years, or Nick Swisher at over 16/2 or 23/3, then I’d go with Rivera. Outside of comparing those two, it depends on the deals and the players.
And getting Rivera in return for Lowe is different than signing Cameron without shedding Lowe’s salary.
So basically you’re saying that this team will have absolutely no use for any OFer we might add now after this season, but you think saving, roughly $2.5 MM a year on Rivera is worth choosing him over Swisher, who is flexible enough to move between the OF and 1B, thus giving him value next season instead of making him a dead contract that we would have to move?
Value isn't paying Nick Swisher $10m to play 1B
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 17, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Over the next two years, we’re looking at about $3 million a year extra for Swisher. If both of these trades are theoretically on the table, there’s a decent chance we’d get stuck sending money to Anaheim in this deal, but it’s extremely unlikely we’d have to do that with the Yankees. It probably comes out really close to even for the first two years.
Regardless, $9 million for Swisher’s age 30 season is probably a better deal than $5.25 for the season where Rivera turns 33.
This is of course assuming a theoretical scenario in which we could land Swisher for Lowe straight up, or at least, without sending much else. I doubt that’s really the case.
It's all theory Bronn, and likely bullsh1t...
but in response…
" there’s a decent chance we’d get stuck sending money to Anaheim in this deal, but it’s extremely unlikely we’d have to do that with the Yankees"
Is a different deal than we’re theoretically discussing. Change the deal so we’re sending money the Angels way and I’d likely agree with you.
I disagree that 2011 Swisher for $9m ($10m if you think we won’t pick up the 2012 option for another $10+) is a better deal than 2011 Rivera for 5.25. I’d be much more in Rivera’s favor when you add in the likely return we’d get in a deal of him, Diaz, or McLouth making room for Schafer and Heyward.
But we can end on something we agree on, this is all bs theory and message board banter.
How long is a guy going to give up eight figures to wait?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
The Philly trade has made this offseason much more enjoyable for me.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 14, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
mmhmm
except I’d really like to know who the Sillies are really giving up and recieving. It seems like theres different players going to different places every 15 minutes on MLBTR.
I really hope they get rid of Dominick Brown. He looked like the real deal when I watched him play in a few AFL games.
In Frank Wren I trust.
i just want it clarified
i have heard that lee is staying and happ is going to seattle
then i have heard that happ and blanton are being traded and lee is staying
its too confusing.
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2009 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
wait an f'in minute
Lee would stay in Philly? That’s news to me.
I’ve just read that it’s pretty set that Lee would go to Seattle and Halladay would go to Philly. It’s just the prospects being sent to Toronto that’s changing by the minute.
In Frank Wren I trust.
that was just a variation
i was just saying it has been sooo many different reports
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a great deal for someone of Cameron’s ability.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 14, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Great move by the Sox, signing Cameron instead of overpaying for Bay.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 15, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Only thing that I dislike about it for Boston: keeping Ellsbury in center and moving Cameron to one of the corner spots. Epstein’s a smart guy, he should realize that Cameron is a much better fielder than Ellsbury
True.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 16, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Ellsbury’s probably going to be moved later this offseason, perhaps in a package for A-Gon. Pads need a speedy young CF to cover all that ground at Petco.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Tony Gwynn?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
White Sox acquire Juan Pierre, with Dodgers paying half his salary. they really are going for the 2002 championship. So how much does that now make that the Dodgers are paying people to play for other teams?
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
hahahah…I love it!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 15, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
The Mets need a SP and I thought what about making a trade that sends Lowe to New York. The Mets and the Braves aren’t likely to make this trade alone so I brought in Kansas City. The way this trade works is:
The Mets receive Lowe, $7.5M per year the next 3 years from the Royals, and Brett DeVall.
The Royals receive Fernando Martinez from Mets, and Christian Bethancourt from Braves.
The Braves receive Mike Moustakas from Royals, and Robbie Shields from Mets.
I know this trade sounds very unlikely but who saw the Halladay and Lee trade coming. The Mets get 3 years of Lowe for only $22.5M plus they get the Braves number 11 prospect in DeVall.
The Royals get the Mets number 1 prospect in Martinez and the Braves number 7 prospect in Bethancourt.
The Braves get rid of all of Lowe’s contract plus get the Royals number 2 prospect in Moustakas and Shields who is way down the Mets farm list but has upside.
The only team that would be against this trade would be the Royals. They have to pay the Mets $7.5M a year for 3 years but they get Martinez who is close to major league ready and Bethancourt who could give them a good catcher which they haven’t had in awhile. Besides money Moustakas is the only player they lose and he’s behind Gordon at 3B anyway.
It doesn’t seem like we get much in the deal but with the money we gain by getting rid of Lowe’s contract we can go out and add the hitters we need. Moustakas can play 3B or SS but has played mostly 3B recently and is very good defensively. He has good power and is only 21 years old and hasn’t played above A+. With Jones already at 3B for at least 1 probably 2 more years he has time to grow.
The Mets get the innings eating pitcher they need plus a solid SP prospect.
The Royals part of this is terrible. You’re asking them to give up one of their best young prospects and pay 7.5 million? The return just isn’t enough from their end. They’d basically be trading Martinez for Moustakas, which is a net loss since young 3B are more valuable than young OF and then trading 7.5 million for Bethancourt, which is just crazy.
This just doesn’t work at all to me.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
After looking at this trade again I decided to revise it some.
The Mets till receive Lowe plus $5.5M per year for 3 years from Kansas City, plus $2M per year for 3 years from Atlanta, they also receive Brett DeVall from Atlanta.
The Braves receive Jeff Bianchi from Kansas City and Jefry Marte from New York.
The Royals receive Kirk Nieuwenhuis from New York and David Hale and Luis Valdez from Atlanta.
Kansas City still might not like this trade but they don’t have to pay as much money and only part with 1 prospect who is rated 12th in their system. They receive Nieuwenhuis who is the Mets 11th rated prospect and plays CF plus Hale who is the Braves 10th prospect and Valdez who is 16th.
The Braves get rid of Lowe’s contract plus get middle infield help in Bianchi and Marte.
Any trade that has the Royals sending money away just isn’t going to happen.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
This
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
I like that your very creative thinking because the reality, I’m beginning to fear, is Lowe’s contract plus, of course, his age and lackluster performance last season, may very well make him almost untradeable without the Braves eating a large part of his salary; which in turn may force FW to instead deal Javy. And sooner, rather than later.
On the front page thread, I just saw a recent comment to the effect that given market developments, it is very clear the Braves will be able to trade Lowe. Personally, while I still think it should still be possible, I’m increasingly doubtful about how likely it is. Particularly, in the short term. And time is, I think, a major factor in all this.
Given the Braves’ presumptive budget crunch and widely known, urgent need for bats at 1B and OF, it seems our leverage is poor and getting worse daily.
In short, I’m worried.
DISAGREE...
can we get a strong package of young, cheap players? Probably not. Maybe a contract that fills a need that the other team is wanting to unload, or some suspect prospects, but looking at the remaining options (guys considerably worse than Lowe wanting similar deals in terms of length and dollars) I don’t think moving him is impossible, and do not expect us to have to eat any salary.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 16, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
These are done mostly because I’m bored and really want the Braves to do something.
The Angels seem like the most likely landing spot for Lowe but I’m not really that impressed with anything they could offer. I made up a 3 team trade that I think is very fair and would give us the power hitter we need.
The Angels would receive Lowe and $3M in 10 and 11, plus $1M in 12.
The Braves would receive Adrian Gonzalez, they would sign him to an extension before trade was completed that would pay him $14M. in 12, $20M. in 13, and $22M. in 14, 15, and 16. There would also be a vesting option for $22M. in 17. The deal would be 5 years for $100M.
The Padres would receive Jon Bachanov from Angels, Freddie Freeman, Randall Delgado, Robinson Lopez, and David Hale from Atlanta.
The Angels get Lowe plus some money and only give up 1 prospect.
The Braves get the young power hitter that they need and sign him long term.
The Padres get a very nice haul for Gonzalez. Bachanov is the Angels 9th rated prospect. Freeman is rated 2nd, Delgado is rated 4th, Hale is rated 10th, and Lopez is 16th.
I would only do this trade if we were allowed to sign him long term. If we couldn’t then you don’t give up that much for him.
This gives us a lineup of
1. Diaz LF
2. Prado 2B
3. Jones 3B
4. Gonzalez 1B
5. McCann C
6. Escobar SS
7. McLouth CF
8. Heyward RF
Highly unlikely trade scenario, but it is nice to dream
But my real confusion is your insistance that Diaz hit leadoff when he is a notable free swinger and doesn’t take a walk. I assume that you really think that 2 weeks (was it even 2 weeks) that he successfully hit leadoff in ’09 proved that he is a born leadoff hitter. Not only that, but why stick McLouth 7th when he is clearly a top 5 in the order bat?
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 16, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
um
Matt Diaz 09 OBP = .390
Nate McLouth 09 OBP = .352
by drumzalicious on Dec 16, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Shhhh…OBP isn’t important, remember???
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 16, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
i forgot
lead-off hitters dont need to get on base.
by drumzalicious on Dec 17, 2009 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
Sustainability?...
Can Diaz, as much of a free swinger as he is, really maintain a .390 obp as an everyday player vs. righties and lefties?
Exactly
Jesus, I know OBP is important. But do you really think Diaz can maintain that kind of OBP? As I said, the guy can’t take a walk, his .390 OBP is very linked to his high batting average, much of which he as accomplished in a platoon role.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 17, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
If his OBP is linked to his batting average, they would be similar.
His batting average was .313 in 2009 – 70 points below his OBP. That tells me that the OBP was not dependant on the high batting average at all.
Regarding whether or not he can sustain the high OBP, he has a .358 OBP for his career – so yeah, he can OBP at a high rate consistently.
As far as not being able to take a walk goes, he had a career high 35 BBs last season. That was good for 6th on the Braves, but only 19 walks behind second place Yunel Escobar. Chipper led the team with 101 BBs.
Matt was much more patient at the plate last season and continues to develope as a top notch hitter.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying
that he isn’t developing (though is ceiling at 31 years old isn’t exactly high), but yet again I should point out that he has done all of this in a platoon. His career batting average is only 40 points lower than his OBP (less than the 70 he posted this season. Perhaps I overstated his inability to take walks, he has improved in that regard. And I’m not saying that you are wrong, but I am questioning his long term sustainability considering he hasn’t taken a lot of walks for his career, has an abnormally high BABIP, and has only ever found success in a platoon role so far. Now suddenly he is a leadoff hitter? That seems like a stretch.
I would love to see Diaz play everyday and see how he does without the platoon. Then, if he continues to succeed, absolutely, lets stick him in at leadoff and see how he does.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 17, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Actually, he greatly improved is ability to take a walk last season. In 2006 and 2007 he posted BB% of 3.6 and 4.3 respectively, but last season he ended up with a 8.6 BB%. That’s very respectable.
I’ve always been a critic of his extremely high BABIP, and last season was no exception, but maybe he’s just one of those players that is able to sustain it.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Since when does a single season define a skillset?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
If we did AG...
I’d almost want to reverse that money. Make his most expensive years when Heyward, Freeman, Esco, McCann, Hanson, Jurrjens are the cheapest by front loading it, opening up money to use for extensions on the rest of the young core when they get more service time.
Interesting idea there. Could we try and make a move for Gonzalez or Fielder and do just that, allowing for a pretty stacked team come 2012 and beyond? (and I’d try and slip ’em Rohrbough instead for one of the 3 arms)
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 16, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
strike Freeman, make it Schafer.
or one of the handful of young arms.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 16, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
they would demand freeman. he would have to be in that deal
by drumzalicious on Dec 16, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
im telling you the deal would never happen without freeman
by drumzalicious on Dec 17, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
I have to agree
Plus, the Pads would want more than a “nice” return for A-Gon. His performance is so far above his contract right now that I really see no way that the Pads could deal him and get equal value right now without completely gutting some team’s farm system. I’m sure if any deal came up involving the Braves and the Pads, any proposal at all without Heyward would make it almost impossible.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 17, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I got that the first time,...
do you understand why “strike Freeman, replace with…” means? I figured out that mistake before you said anything, but it’s not like I can go back and edit the original comment now can I?
the way your writing that statement is making it seem like you think they would accept a package where freeman wasnt included but Schafer was.
by drumzalicious on Dec 18, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
You were agreeing.
He said strike Freeman from the list of players who’d get a raise while playing here.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
yea
we kinda cleared that up 3/4 days ago
by drumzalicious on Dec 21, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Proctobombs…they aren’t always punctual.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 21, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
What about Lowe to the Cubs for Soriano? That make sense?
I is for I can't wait for spring to get here- Matty D
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
no no no no!
We’d be taking on a much worse salary. Plus, Soriano is a dick and no one likes him.
In Frank Wren I trust.
let it get proctored first...
then we can move to a new room. Janitor on stand by.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 17, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
why worry? vazquez is not going to waive his ntc to the west unless that team is going to give him a ridiculously large extension but you’d figure the angels would have just re-signed lackey in that case
by McCann's the Man on Dec 17, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
On top of everything else...
…(everything else being that Javy won’t waive the no trade clause), note that all the reports talk about the Angels being more interested in Javy than Lowe. None of them seem to mention anything about the Braves being cool with this.
probably because...
the Braves know their opinion is worthless. Ask Javy, if he says OK, then we can talk about it. If not, it’s a pointless discussion.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 18, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I’d be so pissed…I’ve wanted to cheer for him for so long, and last year I finally got the chance.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
This.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
The only way they can have Javy is if they give us Morales.
No Morales no Javy, but we do have a Lowe over here. You can have him for some infield dirt
by drumzalicious on Dec 18, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
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