Best and worse
by bravestatoo on Dec 8, 2009 1:10 AM EST
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Recent articles at MLB.com have Identified some of baseball's best Trades and Free Agent signings (one of each)for a few selected teams. Of course our team tops the list with the Fred McGriff trade and our free agent steal of the great Greg Maddux. Which I think limited us because we have had more than our fair share of steals/deals which I am sure everyone knows a least a couple more.
Also, coming in the backside as a counter debate is a Yahoo sports blog from Jeff Passon on "The Ten Worst Baseball contracts of the 2000's". Only one involved us directly, Mike (man who "slips" in Hot tub)Hampton. I am sure the time limitation of "from 2000 avoided what I feel was our worst deal....Butler for Barker. (Note: it also listed Andruw Jones but I would say it mostly affected the Dodgers)
So, before the "Tex" for a team subject comes up let me ask the rest of TC nation for comments on who they think was our best....and our worst deals/steals...
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Can we just count our fleecing of Detroit holistically? They’re a couple decades apart, but Smoltz and JJ/Gorkys were absolute steals.
You can’t top Hampton for worst deal, period. Again going holistically, you could count our rash of terrible over-the-hill stopgaps in recent years (Raul Mondesi, Craig Wilson, Garrett Anderson…) but that one is Hampton all the way.
You can't really blame the Braves for the Hampton thing, though.
We got him at a mad discount after he’d been traded around and two other teams were picking up parts of his salary (including the Marlins, for whom he never even pitched). Granted, he ended up making the last 3 years of that deal a waste because he was perpetually injured, but at the time the deal was made it was a steal. The first 2 years even looked really good, until he got hurt.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 8, 2009 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
and we actually didnt pay him tht much money our insurance compnay did
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
THIS...
Hampton’s deal looks bad for us, until you realize how little of that money we actually had to come out of pocket to pay.
I think an important bad signing that actually made the Braves look really good was the Dodgers’ overly optimistic acquisition of Andruw Jones. Don’t get me wrong, i grew up watching and cheering the Jones/Jones dual lineup threat, but after realizing that the club and our homegrown slugger were on different financial expectations, I liked the fact that our management made a good financial decision, even one that involved such a popular player. Not to be a neg-a-tron, but another trade that really put egg on the face of the Braves was the 2003 trade that included our prospect named Jason Marquis, an established arm in Ray King, and our other prospect, that had been willing to forgo a scholarship at Georgia Tech in order to play for his favorite organization by signing the Braves contract first, named Adam Wainwright. We traded those three guys for Eli Marrero, whom we passed off to Kansas City in the next season, and J.D. Drew. Granted, I like Drew, but he had the best season of his career while with us and used it as a launching pad to sign a huge contract with the Dodgers. In conclusion it seems that we’re either dumping or suppling with great hitters entering or leaving their prime.
That article about the worst contracts in baseball made me really thankful to be a Braves fan, because not one of those contracts were offered by the Braves. Yeah, we picked up Mike welfare Hampton, but at a good deal.
It must suck to be a Dodgers fan, cuz they had what, 2 or 3 on the top ten? I’m just glad the Braves are smart enough not to bog down the entire payroll with one player that could fizzle out or get hurt. See: Vernon Wells, Adrian Beltre, etc…
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 8, 2009 11:12 AM EST reply actions
Beltre?
he was worht his contract for the most part it was a lot of money and he didnt deserve it but he produced relatively well over the length of the deal
Now Wells that is an absolute mess and the worst decision ever (IMHO)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
i just ran the Beltre numbers he was paid 64M from 05 -09 and he was worth 67.4M over that time according to fangraphs….
the perception of Beltre is not reflective of his actual performance
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
eh...
maybe Beltre wasn’t a great example, but fangraphs always produces these huge bloated numbers of what players are worth.
Seriously, do you really think that a guy who over the past 5 seasons averaged an OPS+ of 100 (exactly league average) deserved 13.5 million dollars a year??? Yeah he plays good defense, but 13.5 million dollars a year?
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 8, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I’ve always liked Beltre. He had that one fantastic season but he’s never been terrible and he is a great defensive 3B.
I don’t really like Beltre. I mean, it’s obvious he did steroids in his contract year to get a big contract. The 5 seasons before his contract year, he was averaging 18.4 home runs a season. Then in his contract year he goes and hits 48(!) homers with a .300 point jump in his OPS, only to hit 19 homers the next year – the dude did roids.
Although he’s not a bad player still, he’s not worth the money. Over his past 5 seasons with the Mariners he’s averaged an OPS of .755. McLouth has a better OPS than he does, but we wouldn’t pay McLouth 13 and a half million dollars a year.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 9, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Of course Beltre does supply legit defense at the hot corner.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
And of course the hitting environment in Safeco is quite different from the ones in Pittsburgh or Atlanta, but why let facts get in the way of a good steroids rant?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
haha
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
How does that matter in the context of...
6 “full” seasons in LA
HR totals are—15, 20, 13, 21, 23, 48
the following seasons in Seattle return back to the level of the first 5-
19, 25, 26, 25
Can we say Brady Anderson?
Brady Anderson didn’t hit 50 homers at age 25.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Since you missed that one,...
let me say it again.
In the middle of a long career, he has one season with over 20 more HRs than any other season they play. Both Brady Anderson and Adrian Beltre have this strange phenomena.
No, you missed it. On the off chance that you’ll take off the conspiracy hat and listen to reason, let me explain:
Adrian Beltre entered the big leagues at 19 a terrific young talent but skinny as a beanpole, suffered through a botched appendectomy in the DR that had him off solid foods for months, and then finally healthy began developing pitch recognition and power, exploding in 2004, a contract year. He then signed for a boatload in a place known for killing RH power and has returned to a steady baseline of power, despite playing with a variety of hand, hamstring, and shoulder ailments (not to mention the infamous testicle incident).
If you were to look at the evidence, you’d see that Safeco is killing Beltre’s power. He slugs over 100 points higher on the road than at home, and if you look at his True Home Run charts you’ll see that a number of his Safeco outs would be home runs in other parks. In fact, each of the last 2 pre-testicle years, he’s hit 15 HRs on the road, which would conservatively be 30 in a neutral park, and that does not even take into account the fact that hitters generally perform better at home than on the road.
Beltre is not Brady Anderson, who came out of nowhere at age 32 to hit 50 bombs. Beltre was young and growing into his power in 2004. He was finally healthy, and likely was motivated to perform well in his walk year. He had a career year, certainly, but had he not signed with Safeco, Beltre would be hitting 30+ homers a year and playing excellent 3B defense, and no one would have batted an eye.
I know it’s a complex story and one that requires a little nuance. Hopefully this will make things a little clearer. But perhaps it’s just easier to randomly sling baseless accusations at a guy.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
You think my belief that Beltre did steroids is baseless?
First of all, the average difference of SLG between home and away has been 63 points over the past 5 seasons, not over 100. Second of all, over the past 5 seasons he’s hit 48 home runs at home and 55 away, a difference of 7 home runs in 5 seasons – hardly a difference.
I’ll agree that Safeco is taking some of his power, but the dude did roids. To go from 23 homers to 48 back to 19 is just ridiculous.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 13, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
isn’t Atlanta considered a pitcher’s park?
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 9, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure it’s neutral, with perhaps a slight lean towards pitcher’s park.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
For 2009,
our park factor was actually lower than Safeco
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 9, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
I obviously have no clue what I’m talking about.
What’s really interesting is how the Yankees rank 1st in HR but 20th in R…how does that work?
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
What you do to get a park factor is add up the runs scored and runs allowed at home and then divide it by the number of home games. Then take that number and divide it by the sum of runs scored and runs allowed on the road divided by the number of road games.
Basically, the Yankees scored and allowed more runs on the road than at home.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 9, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
No, I understand that but what I don’t get is how their park allowed the most HR in the league, yet was 20th in R
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
oh haha
for some reason I assumed “R” was just a typo for “park factor” – I was way off.
That is really weird though, do they only hit solo shots over there?
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 9, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
could be...
small can be conducive to home runs, but OFs can catch a lot of balls that would normally fall in?
I agree
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 8, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think oRenteria for Jurrjens/Gorkys was absoutely the best trade we have made since I can remember. Jurrjens is a #2 starter who is under team control for 6 years, and Gorkys allowed us to get Nate McLouth.
plus Renteria became better and younger in Yunel...
while doing horrid for the Tigers. That trade was aces all around for the Braves.
I agree
but I hope to say after next year that the trade that Wren makes this off season won us a WS ring!
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