Braves' Kelly Johnson in High Demand
by gondeee on Dec 7, 2009 2:46 PM EST
305 comments
The Winter Meetings are most definitely under way. We've already had our first crazy rumor that lasted less than half a day before another team acquired the player in question. Bobby Cox held a press conference at 2pm today, and despite my hopes they did not show it on-line on the MLB channel. Luckily Bill Shanks is there and knows the value of live-tweeting such an event. Among his updates this one stands out:
Cox: clubs knocking on the door for Kelly Johnson
Bobby doesn't usually give up much in the way of trade or free agent info, so for him to say that must mean that regardless of what he says there's still tons of value on KJ. Suddenly the Braves have a ton of tradeable pieces. Here are some other highlights from Shanks' tweeting of the Cox presser:
Cox: we'll give Heywatd a chance
Cox: Braves not in on Bay
Cox: Wags the closer "no matter what"
Cox: Martin Prado could play anywhere
Some of that is very Bobby Coxian, in that it's just simple praise of his players, like the quotes about Martin Prado and Jason Heyward. Of course Billy Wagner will be the closer, he's the veteran and is a much better closer than Soriano or Saito. The price for Jason Bay seems to be going upwards quickly, so I can see why the Braves took themselves out of the running for him early on.
It was mentioned earlier, but until Rafael Soriano makes his decision, the Braves probably won't make any moves. So while there will still be rumors today, don't expect any moves. Soriano's agents arrived this morning and are expected to meet with all interested parties before conferring with Rafael about whether or not to accept arbitration. My guess is that they will receive enough interest to recommend he reject arbitration.
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No surprise here
KJ is a hot commodity.
Rosterbation alert: Maybe we can package him with Lowe and get Lowe’s salary off the books. My hope is Arizona with us swinging Conor Jackson.
Id like conor jackson, but if we get him then we would really need to get a clean up hitter, does conor bat rh or lh?
by JasonHeywardisGod on Dec 7, 2009 2:52 PM EST reply actions
A ton of "true" clean-up hitters just aren't available.
I don’t know of any that are being readily shopped that could fit in our budget even moving Lowe’s salary.
he bats RH and can play 1st of LF
not the answer, but may be worth the gamble if he can turn his career around.
This, assuming by “play” you meant very barely passably cover defensively.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Obviously, he is not a defensive stud. But his UZR in LF (albeit only with a sample size of 103 games) is -0.3 compared to -8.8 at 1b. So yes, he can “barely passably cover defensively” at 1b, but I’d give him slightly more credit as a LFer. Care to guess what McClouth’s UZR is before looking it up?
Jackson’s UZRs in left and at first are -.5 and -4.0, respectively. Not sure where you got your numbers from. What’s his contract like?
oops
Used uzr and not uzr/150 from fangraphs.
From mlbtraderumors: Byrnes has until the December 12th non-tender deadline to decide on Jackson, who must be paid at least $2.44MM if tendered a contract.
Well I never really watched that many dback games to know, but one of my best friends is a dbacks fan so I know about him and his ability to hit around 300 and hit 15 hrs, that’s a good #6 hitter but for a number 4 hitter on our team for the mean time we need at least 25 hrs
by JasonHeywardisGod on Dec 7, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Everybody isn’t as smart as you Dave…
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 7, 2009 6:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I wonder if Bobby isn't just puffing here.
I hope KJ is a valuable commodity, and I can see why some teams would be interested. On the other hand, I can see this as an attempt to get some offers coming in so we don’t have to non-tender him next week, too.
No one can deny that KJ has shown flashes of being a very good player.
He has gone on a few really good streaks in his career. He has shown that the talent is there if he could develop some conistancy. So I doubt Bobby is just trying to build interest.
I think it’s funny that a lot of people (not saying you cavebird) bring up names of players on other teams that are in the same exact situation as KJ that we could get as cheap 1B or OF options, but they want KJ gone.
And for the record...
…I have no problem with KJ. The question, as always, is the price. But since he can play 2B, LF, and 1B (I think), he is a useful bench guy if not a starter.
I agree
My point is mostly that I think some people want to bring in other guys that have had flashes of potential, but they gave up on KJ a long time ago. He has as much chance of putting up a solid season as most of the other options being thrown around.
Price tag is a different story. He may have outpriced himself as far as his role on the team. So now the question becomes would it be better to be able to trade him for a proven commodity with less upside or a guy in the same position on another team?
KJ has shown more than flashes
He has 2 very good offensive years, and another good half season this year (although no one around here seems to notice). It just gets blinded by his poor first half.
Someone here noticed…
:)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
the 2d half of 09 season was a flash or maybe several flashes given the limited number of plate appearances.
in a way, so was the first half of 09…at least, when in the context of his career.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
I know. I forgot about that. Only Prado’s good streaks and KJ’s bad streaks count.
How could I forget the rules around here?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
lol
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
No, they’re not. Kelly’s got a lot to offer as well. Prado was just unstoppable for a while there last season.
But when Prado, Infante, and Yunel are all in, healthy,…….look out.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
he was joking…i think…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
The internet needs a “joking/sarcastic” font. That really would clear up most of the confusion.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
pardon the political humor it is in good taste i feel
Stupid internet
DAMN YOU AL GORE
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
super cereal.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Pujols help us all if Bill Shanks is our main pipeline inside the Winter meetings.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
today was my introduction to Mr. Shanks
short, borderline literate tweets…better than nothing I suppose
My thoughts too, but he has done a nice job today. DOB and Bowman are starting to chime in. As someone who has been around them, Shanks doesn’t take many notes and relies on his recorder a lot (like I do), whereas the other two are like traditional journalists in that they try and scribble everything down. The former’s style lends itself to being able to tweet while the presser is going on.
In my time as a journalist...
I couldn’t scribble notes for a damn. I can’t write that fast, or listen well while I write.
Kelly doesn’t suck. I would love to have Kelly as my starting 2nd baseman, if I was managing a club.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Please
do not talk any more.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Yeah, lets start the utility infielder Omar Infante who fell straight back to earth like a rock after he came off the DL this summer. That’s gonna work spectacularly, if you want to be a 3rd place team again.
lol…I was in a 8 hour meeting today, so I haven’t seen any of this until now…The moment has passed, so I will just ignore fizzbot and is idiotic, moronic, ridiculous statements.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
I wondered what was keeping you, you seem to respond to pretty well everything around here within the hour. I hope you got some quality doodling done in those 8 hours.
If anyone thinks Kelly Johnson sucks, I worry about them.
However, I also worry about someone who thinks KJ should be handed the 2nd base job in 2010. IMO, it’s Prado’s job to lose. He really did spark the team last year.
In Frank Wren I trust.
Prado didn’t spark shit. Getting rid of Jeff Francoeur and bringing up Tommy Hanson to lock down the 5th rotation spot (from which we had like 2 wins previously) is what sparked this team.
Yes, Prado’s bat helped a bunch during his incredible streak where his BABIP was like .400 or more, but to credit him with turning this team around is just ludicrus. What about that stretch of games (that was equal to KJs) where he sucked? Where was the spark then?
KJ and Prado (If KJ isn’t traded) should have a battle royal during ST for 2B, and may the best man win.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
so you’re saying that in Spring Training, if KJ hits .300 and Prado hits .275, KJ gets the job?
That shit better not happen. Thats stupid.
In Frank Wren I trust.
No, I am saying that whichever player plays the best (not hits for the highest avg) in ST should get the job.
When you put it the way you did, Prado go the job based on roughly the same number of good ABs as someone would get in ST…just sayin.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
I know
but what im asking is that if KJ has a line of .300/.350/.450 in absolutely meaningless Spring Training games and Prado only has a line of .280/.330/.420, then KJ should be our starting 2B?
Im not trying to be a smart ass…just tryin to see your stance
In Frank Wren I trust.
In that case, yes. Why? Because for them, ST is not meaningless. Their jobs are on the line.
Given that variable (Job on the line) my money is on KJ. Also, past seasons and overall ability come to mind, but I’ll leave that part of the discussion alone…that debate has been had ad nauseum.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
see, my money is on Prado
he seems like more of a natural competitor than KJ does. KJ always seems to have a “deer in the headlights” look on his face. That’s not to say KJ doesn’t care and isn’t a competitor, but Marteeny Weeny seems to have a little more fire to him.
In Frank Wren I trust.
lol, it’s Martini’s war-paint that adds his extra fire. They both have “the fire.” But if one had to start….
Prado.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Mar-teeny-Weenie
I don’t think he would appreciate that nick-name.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Just drop the “weenie” and have a bunch of chicks dressed like Martini glasses in left field. Martin’s Martinis. Maybe have a drink special.
(…..if we ever had any group of chicks out in left field. ha)
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
but that would require people to go to Turner Field…we all know that doesnt happen!
In Frank Wren I trust.
(bows head)
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm never there. Neither is royhobbs. Or 10-4.
Or Sandy, or Andy, William, Ici, Hazel, or…shit, this could go on forever if I name everyone I see, oops, don’t see there on a regular basis.
But I get it – we don’t matter to you. Our stories, our photos…yep, all made up – we were never there.
i live in fucking arizona. if you’d like to fly me out there, i’d be glad to go
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 7, 2009 9:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dude, you’re the one bitching about attendance, not me.
Yeah, I wish my life was different, and I could not only buy a decent ticket for myself (much less season tickets), I wish I could take everybody to the games. I wish I didn’t have to miss games because I take off every other weekend to drive 300 miles to take care of my 90 yr old g-rents. I wish I didn’t have to park in the ghetto free parking and walk back to the car by myself in the dark; I wish I didn’t have to use sick and vacation days to get off early to go to BP to take pics. But I do, because I love baseball and I love this team. All I’m saying is show some support for the fans who are showing up when they’re physically and financially able and bitch less about the ones who don’t.
daaaaa-yum!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
+1
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
disney every year
4 games every year
6 hour drive to Atlanta
1 hour to disney
went to spring training games in tampa, dunedin, clearwater, and lakeland FL last year to watch spring training games vs. braves. Got heyward, hanson, freeman, jj, escobar, mccann, halladay, rios, r. howard, werth, hamels, edwin jackson, granderson, and mariano’s autographs!!!!!! Awesome year!!!!!!!
You think Turner Field is bad?
You can hear a flea fart from one side of Tropicana Field to the other, and that’s for a team that was in the World Series last year.
by Blue or CONKZILLA on Dec 10, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
That is one thing about Prado that I do appreciate. He’s a dirt dawg all the way. He also is the better value, still pre-arbitration. That being said, Kelly still has upside athletically, even from his peak in 2007. I think his defense is going to continue to improve and if the offensive player that he was in the 2nd half this year and most of 2007 and 2008 returns, he will be a valuable trade commodity. I say if Kelly plays well in ST, start him and give him a chance to re-establish his value while getting Prado at least 4 starts a week between 2B, 1B, 3B, and LF.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Dec 7, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Prado helped with the spark. He was cleaning up while everyone else slumped.
I don’t know about “he WAS the spark”
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
But KJ has helped before, which is the part that most Prado supporters completely forget about. KJ was a top 3 offensive NL 2-bagger in 2008. He had a stretch of about 150 bad ABs (which he also had an injury during) and people think he should lose his job and get non-tendered, etc…it is just lunacy.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Sure.
But you don’t have to worry about those people making any serious decisions, though. Just “condom, or no condom.”
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
An email I received earlier this week:
I recall my first time with a condom, I was 16 or so.
I went in to buy a packet of condoms at the corner pharmacy.
There was this beautiful woman assistant behind the counter,
and she could see that I was new at it.
She handed me the package and asked if I knew how to wear one.
I honestly answered, ‘No, this is my first time.’ So she
unwrapped the package, took one out and slipped it over her
thumb. She cautioned me to make sure it was on tight and
secure. I apparently still looked confused. So she looked
all around the store to see if it was empty. It was empty.
‘Just a minute,’ she said, and walked to the door, and locked
it.
Taking my hand, she led me into the back room, unbuttoned her
blouse and removed it. She unhooked her bra and laid it aside.
‘Do these excite you?’ She asked. Well, I was so dumb-struck
that all I could do was nod my head. She then said it was time
to slip the condom on.
As I was slipping it on, she dropped her skirt, removed her
panties and lay down on a desk. ‘Well, come on’, she said,
‘We don’t have much time.’
So I climbed on her. It was so wonderful, that unfortunately,
I could no longer hold back and KAPOW, I was done within a few
minutes.
She looked at me with a bit of a frown. ‘Did you put that
condom on?’ she asked.
I said, ‘I sure did,’ and held up my thumb to show her.
She fainted.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
lmao
If I had posted that joke, this entire thread would have been deleted by 7:45.
“lol”
Good stuff.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Just watched Bruno this past weekend. Good lord…
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 7, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
I mean, it was okay but nowhere near as funny as Borat. So over the top though.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 8, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
I actually got a chance to fill out my 2010 Atlanta Braves 25-man roster:
1B – LaRoche
2B – Prado/KJ
3B – Chipper
SS – Yunel
LF – McLouth
CF – Cameron
RF – Diaz
Bench – Church
Bench – KJ/Prado
Bench – Ross
Bench – Infante
Bench – Other F/A signing
SP – Vaz, JJ, Huddy, Hanson, KK
BP – Moylan, Medlen, Saito, Wagner, EOF, Logan, Acosta/Valdez
Seems legit to me, and within budget, right?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think that puts us somewhere in the $95-$100M range, off the top of my head.
I don’t have time to look up all the contracts right now, but a rough estimation (with arb. raises included) puts us right there I think.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
You have posted EXACTLY what I want our team to look like this year.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 7, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
Heyward? He needs a new challenge
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Dec 7, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
June. That way, we can use Church/Diaz as trade bait in July (or even KJ or Prado at that point) to fill any perceived/anticipated holes for the stretch run.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
I’d prefer to non-tender Church. If we are going to give Church 4M in arbitration, why not spend a little more and sign Rick Ankiel, whose a powerful LH caddy to Matty D in LF?
I agree on Kelly being a decent trade chip if he can return to his former offensive form. He could have real value next summer.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Dec 7, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t feel as strongly about Church as I do KJ, but I don’t see how Ankiel would be a better option. Church has good D and a cannon of an arm with a really good OBP.
Ankiel doesn’t tickle my pickle at all.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Good to see you’ve been carrying the KJ banner since I’ve been gone.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 7, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
Eh…I guess so. Seems about as good a time as any, and work’s been slow lately.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 7, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
dude, it is like me and literally one or two other people. Everyone else is infatuated with Prado’s July.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
I’m with you guys in spirit, I just don’t vocalize it as much. Guess it feels like a lost cause almost. But I’ll take KJ everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
Here’s how I look at it. Other teams are really interested in KJ – even though he will cost at least $3M more than Prado…hmmmm….WHY?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
See, I don’t really know if I blame Bobby. Prado was undeniably the hot hand last season. KJ was also injured, don’t forget. But, if you remember back over the past couple of years, Bobby has been pretty stubborn in sticking with KJ – even all the way back to his rookie year when he started like 0-200 million or something like that.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Prado had a spectacular July, but that’s it. It screams flash in the pan/failure to continue to adjust to pitching when he got regular playing time. Kelly is more proven, bad streaks or not.
In Prado’s defense (See, I can be objective in this!) his Sept was pretty good too.
It was mid-July – mid-late August where he was stone cold.
I absolutely agree that KJ is the more proven player, and he has proven that he can put up an entire season of good numbers. Prado has yet to do that.
I don’t dislike Prado at all, I really don’t. What I dislike is the blind followership he gets mainly from the anti-KJ crowd who obviously know nothing of which they speak – IE, fizzbot.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t dislike Prado either. The fact that he puts up a July like that while Kelly is hurt is great, because we still need that bench guy. But there’s no way he’s earned the right to oust Kelly for the starting job yet. I like him as a role player, I do NOT like him as a starting second baseman.
Prado from 25 July – 15 Sept (39 games, 166 PAs, 154 ABs)
.227 .253 .312 .565
3 HR, 2 Doubles, 5BB, 25Ks
Kelly Johnson from 18 April – 2 July (58 games, 220 PAs, 197 ABs)
.203 .272 .310 .582
2 HR, 13 Doubles, 1 Triple, 17BB, 33Ks
But nobody ever talks about this…except me of course! :)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
I just took both player’s cold streaks. I looked and saw when they played their worst and compared the two. The length is similar as are the number of ABs.
I just simply wanted to point out that Prado struggled just as bad (if not worse) than KJ did, but people blindly ignore that.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
i think
the point of the matter is that KJ and Prado are almost similar players. Prado hits for a higher average and a little less power than KJ.
They both have had their streaks this year, however KJ has been a streaky player his entire career. If you look at when Prado was “slumping” thats also the time it was reported to be a lot of problems with his family and him dealing with stress related headaches. I dont know how much this affected him but it seemed to do enough to him to cause him to slump for about a month.
Bottom line is for similar production the Front Office wouldnt mind dealing KJ because he is about 2+mil more expensive and for a non-yankees team we cant afford to have a whole bench of players that cost 3-4 mil.
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
I get that, I really do. If Prado really is what he has shown flashes of, I think it is a no-brainer.
But, we don’t know that yet.
Also, if you look at KJs numbers when he slumped this year, he had a wrist problem that sent him to the DL.
Prado’s mental struggles shouldn’t outweigh KJs physical problems. You can’t justify Prado without excusing KJ.
KJ has a proven track record of streakiness, yet when the dust settles at the end of the year, he is a top 3 NL 2-bagger.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
i wasnt excusing it
thats why i pointed out the fact that although they both struggled this year KJ has been streaky for his entire career.
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Very true, even going back to his first 100 ABs, he was streaky as hell. He went 1-28 and then hit over .400 for the rest of the month…
It’s very unusual.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
SSS alert, but his April and Sept were both very good. Not too mention his June was great as well, but again…only like 70 PAs.
May was awful, and August/September were very pedestrian.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 8, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
because they think we non-tender him...
and can get him at half that price? I’d like Church too, if he can agree to a cheaper deal than arb is likely to bring him.
I’m on the fence here. Prado I’m not sold on just cause I’m not sure if he can do it again, or if he was truly the hotter version early or colder version late. KJ has had some good seasons, but he’s been very hot/cold throughout his career. Will he have a long hot streak this year, or a long cold streak? I wouldn’t call either one a sure thing, but between them I think one can step up as a top 5/top 3 2B in the NL this year.
Good luck next year in 4th grade, dude. It’s a beast.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I literally lol’d.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
haha
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 7, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t get it…wait a second…ohhh, I see what you did there. You took the “K” and replaced it with a “B.” Clever.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 7, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Kelly and BJ Upton did have major struggles last season, and they both have put up similar OPS for their career…
Interesting comparison.
by get swoll yunel on Dec 7, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Man, and I thought he was equivalating...
…KJ and Bo Jackson. I guess I don’t know diddley.
Wow, that’s pretty dumb. What does Bo Jackson have to do with Kevin Johnson, mayor of Sacramento and former Phoenix Sun? Come on.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
You're just being pissy...
…because our -1 fight in the other thread. ;)
LOL.
Well, now I’ve forgotten all about our tete-a-tete and am pissed at our filthy 8th inning man.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
On that...
…we can agree. We’ve stepped in it this time; the price for Lowe just went down because everyone knows we have to move him now to sign a 1B. On the other hand, with that rotation and that bullpen, we shouldn’t need to score a ton of runs.
you guys don't get it
i think he’s suggesting that we should trade kelly johnson for bj upton. which is simply brilliant. well played sir… well played.
Along those lines
MP=AP
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
+1 internets
I think that’s the second time today. You sir are on a roll.
Mark Prior=Adrian Peterson. Fair comparison though I assume you mean the Bears’ back up running back
thats be best trick to play in an NFL auction draft… post the bears RB before the vikings and people flip their lids and bet like idiots…. ooo the hilarity….wow im a nerd
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
HAHAH!!!
I am totally doing that next season!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Adrian Peterson old school style...
…and he was incredible for Georgia Southern—-the breaking 11 tackles on his way to the endzone in a 1-AA playoff was amazing.
LETS GO MARTIN PRAYDO!
Honestly, I’d like to keep KJ around in case my boy Marteeen doesn’t hit again.
That said, I’d definately trade Kelly if it helped bring us a big hitter.
In Frank Wren I trust.
Just keep Connie (or Brooksie) around starting at day 1 on the bench, and we would be covered.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Oh lord, no.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
In his scenario, we would have Infante on the bench as well.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
still, Lord, NO!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Conrad has better D than Kelly, from what I’ve seen. The offense will come naturally to the kid after he gets in a groove.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
LORD, NO ; )
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Conrad absolutely does not have better D than KJ, and I really don’t want to bank on the offense magically clicking on his part.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
ha. roight. Conrad’s defense always looked solid to me, and he made alot of tough plays in very little time. Kelly had his D moreso than in ’08, but he still needs to work on it.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
that was a shitty-ass call….he didn’t go.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
i know i know
it was sarcasm lol maybe we really should find a way to mark a sarcastic comment from now on
In Frank Wren I trust.
finish your sentence with “/sarcasm”
but, that isn’t as fun…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
/maybe something like, um, this, would be sarcasm/
/the old backslash comes back with a vengeance/
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
the question is, do the boys like you back?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Or just vegetables...
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
What has been seen
cannot be unseen. My eyes…
Dick Simmons on a bed of lettuce…..oh, joo guys..
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
but not his .400+ OBP
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Sign Junior Spivey and Albert Haynesworth.
Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.
Haynesworth got hurt again…Dan Snyder is a talent-finding genius!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
I talked to Junior a few months ago at an independent league game
Kind of a weird dude.
In Frank Wren I trust.
Haha, Junior Spivey…god it’s been forever since I heard that name.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 7, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Colorado offers a 3 year deal to a reliever…Rafael???
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 8:52 PM EST reply actions
NVM….it was an offer to Street…my bad!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
I’m probably going to be lynched for saying this but, Justin, I was thinking you could join me. Why not trade Prado now?
I understand that most of you no longer believe Kelly is deserving of a job, but he was dragged down by an awful BAbip. Generally, this could be a result of a drop in LD%, which would be a red flag, but in 2007, his LD% was only .9% better while his BAbip was .330. This is entirely sustainable for him given his above-average speed. His ISO was actually higher last season than in 2008. And don’t you guys remember the first week or two? He hit some bombs and everyone was, shall I say, on his jock. Furthermore, he is just now entering his prime at 27.
Let me start the Martin paragraph by saying that I have nothing against him. In fact, I was a pretty big fan of him in 2007 and 2008 (not statistically but he seemed like a nice guy) and I still am. Some people seem to think of him as a young guy, but really he is only a year (and a half) younger than Kelly. So I guess I would be biased if I didn’t say that Martin will also be entering the prime of his career soon. However, I worry if Martin will be able to continue to put up these numbers. He has months where he is incredible, but these are fueled by high BAbip numbers. He also has streaks as cold as anyone else. In my mind, and hopefully in yours, this should negate the argument about Kelly’s streaky tendencies.
Martin just seems to be too much of a wild card to me. For example, his HR/FB numbers jumped from 2.8% to 7.6%. Is this improvement or luck? Most likely improvement, but nobody knows for sure. It’s probable that his true skill may lie in between these numbers. At this point, Prado’s trade value has got to be very high, while Kelly’s is awfully low. This seems a lot like last year’s situation with Kelly, coming off of a hot streak to end the year. While I fully expect Kelly to rebound this season, I can honestly say that I have no idea whether Martin will improve or not. And that gap in certainty and uncertainty, dependability vs. risk, seems enough to warrant, in the least, the provocation of thought about trading Martin Prado.
MADNESS!
Do not suggest trading Martin Praydo, or he’ll come at you with warpaint on in the middle of the night and attack you.
In Frank Wren I trust.
HAHAHA!!!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, I am all about selling high on him. I have mentioned it before (and alluded to it earlier tonight), and think it would be a very smart thing to do.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Shhhhh….don’t bring up the fact that Prado had a streak of ABs nearly as bad as KJ’s this season and just as long….
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Classic “sell high” move.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
So, if KJ is so much more expensive, why are other teams asking about him and not Prado???
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
There’s 2.4 million reasons why the Braves would prefer to keep MP. As for everybody else… KJ is cheap relative to the decent free agent options, he’s young (27), and costs exactly zero draft picks.
But, Prado is even cheaper…so why the interest in only KJ?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I gotta admit: all we really have on that is BCox’s statement. I suppose there might be a bunch of teams asking “How ’bout Prado?” and Wren is saying “how ’bout KJ?” in response. Sounds to me like Cox is openly telling the world that KJ is on the block and MP isn’t for sale…. at least unless Wren gets overwhelmed with something.
This should be enough to overwhelm Wren enough to trade Prado:
GMX: Hey, Frank, it is GM X.
FW: Oh Hey, GM X. How are things?
GMX: Good. Hey, listen uh, I was wondering if you might be interested in trading Martin Prado to us.
FW: What do you have in mind?
GMX: Well, we were thinking about offering you…
FW: Done!
Ok, that is a little facetious of me, but seriously, it should not take an offer of Albert Pujols to get us to get rid of MP.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
On a slightly more serious note, I’ve been wondering if it would take more than a box of baseballs (either direction!) to get somebody to take Lowe and his salary.
39 minutes to go…
I am getting nervous…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
My heart just skipped a beat. Top headline over at MLBTR included the words “Rafael,” “accepts,” and “arbitration,” but it’s Betancourt, not Soriano. At least not yet.
I saw that too
Man, his agent was kidding when he said “down to the last few minutes”
In Frank Wren I trust.
I didn’t know he was on the untouchable list…as far as I know, they haven’t said that KJ is on the block either….
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
no one has brought up Prado's name
KJ’s name has been brought up since last off-season.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by who? Us?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Cox said teams were asking about KJ, he didn’t say that he told teams KJ was available.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
um…no more than anyone else here is…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Why
is everyone so sure that KJ will be able to rebound next year? I understand questioning whether Prado can keep it up, but I can see KJ going either way.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 7, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously? KJ rebounded this past year!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
True,
but in a relatively small, spread out amount of at bats. I’m just not convinced that he can be relied on if we were to actually trade Prado.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 7, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
I am not convinced that we can rely on Prado, since I showed above that he was just as bad for nearly as long as KJ was…KJ is the one with a 3 year track record of success…Prado has 1 month of great hitting.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Prado has 1 month of great hitting.
he has 779 MLB career ABs, with a line of .307/ .360/ .451/ .811.
clearly, this compares quite favorably to Kelly’s line of .264/ .346/ .430 / .777 in slightly more than twice as many ABs (1661).
Ho much of those numbers are boosted by his insane hot streak?
I mean, did you even look at the stats? Prado was RIDICULOUSLY hot in July and just as cold from late July – Sept.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not arguing that,
I just don’t see any reason why I should think KJ will go back to his ‘07 and ’08 form. I watched Kelly hit all season – without even checking the numbers I’m guessing that his LD% went down. I did not see very many hard hit balls from him, and I just don’t know why it’d be a better idea to rely on KJ instead of Prado.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 8, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Because KJ showed in the 2nd half of last season (granted, a small sample size, but enough to satisfy the question of “can he bounce back?”) that he indeed still has that 07-08 player in him.
He also has a better track record than Prado. The question here shouldn’t be “Can KJ bounce back?” It should be "Can Prado A) sustain his hitting for a whole season (so far, that answer is no) and B) Can HE bounce back from his aweful slump in the 2nd half?
It is also funny that you question KJs power ability when, even with his horrible stretch last season, he still hit 8 HRs and 20 doubles and 3 triples. Compare that to Prado who hit 38 doubles and 11 HRs in over 200 more ABs. His LD% was 14% in 09, 20% in 08, 15% in 07 and 19% in 05.
Yes, his 14% was low, but the power was still there and he showed in his minimal # of chances in the 2nd half that he can indeed bounce back.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t see Prado’s awful 2nd half at all. He hit .290/.331/.443 with 7 homers and 19 doubles after the All-Star break. What’s awful about that?
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 8, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve already posted it once, but I will post it again:
Prado from 25 July – 15 Sept (39 games, 166 PAs, 154 ABs)
.227 .253 .312 .565
3 HR, 2 Doubles, 5BB, 25Ks
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Prado from Sept 16-Oct 4
29 hits in 70 AB’s – good for a .414 batting average. He also had 13 doubles and 2 homers in this stretch, ending his cold streak. He clearly rebounded at the end of the season.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 8, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
As did KJ…which is my point.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
well if they both rebounded, why not go with the cheaper option? :)
I see more what you mean with KJ. It’s just that when KJ rebounded, his rebound doesn’t seem as impressive or convincing as Prado’s.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 8, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think it isn’t as impressive because it was spread out over time due to limited ABs.
I prefer KJ for the following reasons:
1. More upside
2. Better track record
3. More power
4. Better defensively
I would prefer Prado for the following reasons:
1. Cheaper
2. um….?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
well, you don’t know if KJ has more upside than Prado, that’s more of an opinion.
As far as a better track record, I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily better, it’s just longer. Prado still has a sizable amount of AB’s.
And I don’t think KJ has more power. KJ averaged 14 home runs in 07 and 08. If Prado had the same amount of PA in a season, he would average 13.36 home runs. Their amount of doubles are similar, with Prado averaging more per PA than KJ.
And defensively…I’ll agree that Kelly has more range but Prado is just as solid.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 8, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
how much? its a simple math computation.
you do know that in ’’08, he had a .320 avg and .838 ops; and his numbers in ’09 were down to .307 and .822 – despite the hot run.
also, you appreciate that hot streaks are good. a few of those streaks can vault a player into all-star consideration
in 2008 he only had 228 ABs which means we can’t really compare those counting stats to the 2009 ones. It isn’t as simple as you make it out to be.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I thought a nice straightforward comparison of the career numbers was simple.
Prado: 779 MLB career ABs: .307/ .360/ .451/ .811
Johnson: 1661MLB career ABs: .264/ .346/ .430 / .777
Silly me.
Why don’t we look at minor league numbers? I don’t understand how you just can’t get what Justin and I are talking about
Maybe I’m just stoopid.
Do you really think distant minor league stats are more or equally relevant than recent minor legue stats?!
Do we have to go over this again? Martin pretty much came out of nowhere with no track record, as evidenced by his minor league stats from 3 or 4 years ago the distant past. My point has been this entire thread that trading Martin would be a better idea, since we really have no idea what he is going to do.
Also, KJ will be getting somewhere between $3M-and $4M in his arbitration raise.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
even if he is traded, he should get an Arb raise.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
if he is non-tendered, he becomes one of the hot FAs and could get a multi-year deal worth more than what he is currently making.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
na, i really doubt KJ gets non-tendered. he’ll get traded somewhere…he still has lots of value.
In Frank Wren I trust.
I really don’t know, but suspect Bobby was trying to bolster up his value so an actual trade partner could be id’ed, as otherwise they will non-tender him.
The next time you talk to Frank, tell him I said “hello”.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
is my absolutely idle speculation bothering you?
if so, I must say that suggesting Kelly may become a “hot” free agent and land a valuable “multi-year” deal is a little too damn vague. please speculate with more specificity in the future.
thanks!
Speculation is fine (as that is what 90% of our posts are) but saying that they will definitely non-tender him as a counter-argument to someone who says they don’t think it would happen isn’t really speculation…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
All I was saying is there are multiple options: arbitration, trade or non-tender.
My speculation is it seems the Braves would like to trade him and Bobby is fanning the fire.
Also, if there is no trade, then as between arbitration and non-tender, he may very well get non-tendered.
However, my hope and what I think would be best for the team is he would instead stay with the Braves with a 1 year contract via the arbitration process.
So, sadly, I’m afraid it would be a financially-driven – rather than a what is best for the team baseballwise-driven – decision
Bobby Cox per DOB on Schafer
Here’s what Cox said when asked whether he’s confident that Jordan Schafer can come back and be the player they expected:
"Well, we played him with a broken hand. We didn’t really know it at the time, but it bothered him the entire time. As far as I know, he’s going to be fit and ready to go, and still one heck of a prospect."
I for one wouldn’t mind playing him in AAA all year if we sign Cameron but if we don’t I’d be up for starting him out of ST. As long as we don’t trade him and give him a full year somewhere I’d be happy.
I will cry
when they trade my KJ.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Dec 7, 2009 9:26 PM EST reply actions
I won't be by your side,
but you will certainly hear my tears all the way from up here in Pennsylvania
Crasnik just reported that Soriano accepted the Braves offer of $6.5M – 8M
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:39 PM EST reply actions
Or the Braves offered $6.5M with incentives up to $8M? That is how I interpreted it…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
MLBTR just confirmed it:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/rafael-soriano-likely-to-accept-arbitration.html
Rafael Soriano accepted the Braves’ offer of arbitration, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Braves, who recently signed Billy Wagner and Takashi Saito, will have lots of relatively expensive relievers under contract. Imagine if Mike Gonzalez accepts, too.
As ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick points out, the Braves need Soriano’s permission to trade him before June 15th. Apparently Soriano prefers the security of a one-year deal to the uncertainty of a market that would have been dulled by his Type A status.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Curious
How the hell does Crasnick AND Heyman confirm before Shanks, O’Brien or Bowman?
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
Who knows. These guys have been up since 6 or 7am this morning and have been going left and right all day long. They might need sleep
In Frank Wren I trust.
Agreed
I’m not buying it yet. Will wait to hear it from the horses mouth first. This just wreaks of a writer jumping the gun or somebody misinterpreting a twitter post!
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
Most of them are quoting each others twitter feeds. MLBTR report is from KRos twitter feed and the day I believe anything off his feed is the day I chew on rabbit pellets.
I’ll wait to hear from a Braves source (FO).
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
Read DOB's blog
even he is saying it, that Soriano unfortunately accepted his offer of arbitration
by SmithnCompany on Dec 7, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
This is his exact quote:
jcrasnick: Soriano apparently felt more comfortable with a sure thing from Atlanta — one year and $6.5 to $8 million — than going out on the market
Monday December 7, 2009 11:38 jcrasnick
11:40 jcrasnick: The Braves weren’t planning for this, and now they can try to trade Soriano. But any deal before June 15 would require his consent.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:42 PM EST reply actions
man, I kinda wish we woulda waited on Saito now. I love BWag as our closer. Saito was good…until Soriano decided to accept arb. Now we’re in a bad situation.
In Frank Wren I trust.
Not really.
Either we trade Sori, and we are in the same position as before but with an extra player from the trade. If not, we have a crazy awesome ’pen, albeit an expensive one. It just pretty much makes trading Lowe a necessity to unload his contract
Yup. I love the idea that we could possibly be spending $23M on our last 3 inning pitchers…that has to be an MLB record.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Sadly, that isn’t even funny…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
I am sure it's not a record.
The Yankees exist and Rivera gets approximately $15 million/year. I am sure they have topped $23 million before. (And fwiw, we aren’t near $23 million—-we are at about $17-18 million.)
If the incentives kick in you have $5.5 for Saito, $10M for Wagner and $8M for Soriano. That equals $23.5M.
I don’t think the yankees ever had a multimillion dollar setup man, except for when they signed our garbage that one year.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
with Soriano...
and the redundancy of Saito/Wags incentives, the chances of all of that coming true is about as much as St Louis sending Pujols our way for Soriano, Lowe and Freeman.
Especially if Soriano is on the roster for even half the year, I doubt Saito has a realistic chances of reaching $5.5.
You keep forgetting that it’s very unlikely for both Saito and Wags to reach all their incentives with so much overlapping, and the chances drop WAY down with another quality possible closer like Soriano in the pen.
What are Wagner's incentives?
I thought the only incentive was the 2011 option kicking in with 50 games finished. Are there others?
Doesn't look like it....
1 year/$7M (2010), plus 2011 option
signed by Atlanta as a free agent 12/2/09
10:$6.75M, 11: $6.5M club option ($0.25M buyout)
2011 option guaranteed with 50 games finished in 2010
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/atlanta-braves_15.html
DOB said
the Braves are “really pushing” to trade DLowe.
If we trade DLowe, maybe not all hope will be lost. We’d have some money to spend.
In Frank Wren I trust.
But see, now everyone knows we’re desperate. Before Sori accepted arb it was a “we’d really like to, but we don’t have to” kind of thing. Now everyone knows our backs are against the wall and can ask for fewer/worse players on their end or that we eat a larger chunk of his salary. This is not a good thing.
Liberty Media just needs to pony up now.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Liberty Media seems to be booming as best I can tell from a brief, unsophisticated review.
also, there has been not a peep of an official word as to the Braves’ 2010 payroll budget.
if LM happened to have opened off the coffers in order to gear up for a championship run, it would absolutely top secret, guarded like the nuclear launch codes.
Agreed
Saito was not a very good signing in the first place. Now it looks worse.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
he signed with Boras…no chance he accepts.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody (especially the best Lefty on the market) signs with Boras only to accept arbitration.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
With how the offseason has gone so far for Wren, I wouldn’t second guess Gonzo not taking his arbitration offer.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 7, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Jose Valverde rejects arb..
>>Worst case for Atlanta? Soriano gets half a season of $8mill salary. The other half paid for by his new team after June 15. Knowing this, he oughta participate in the process and help get that trade done sooner than later… the Braves might even give him a choice.
He can be traded before June 15, but has to give permission to for the Braves to do so. I fully expect that to happen.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I think its in his best interest to agree to a deal before ST. Every guy in the clubhouse knows he just cost them a bat, if it were me I wouldn’t stick around for my asswhoopin, I’d get the hell outta Dodge.
They can’t hate the dude for looking out for himself.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
And Wren had to know there was a possibility of this happening, even if it was a slim one. He has a plan. If there was absolutely no possible way of us being able to handle this, we wouldn’t have taken the risk of offering him
I read where Wren said that it “doesn’t really matter if they accept it or not. They won’t be happy in their new roles, because those roles will not be the same that they were last year. They can accept if they want and we will just trade them”
That is a near exact quote too.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
In other news...
Brad Penny to St. Louis — $7.5m plus incentives to max of $9mill. That sounds to me like: (a) they overpaid; and (b) they aren’t worrying about resigning Holliday any more.
Or Smoltz, for that matter.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 8, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
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