More Sources Say Soriano Likely to Accept Arbitration from Braves
by gondeee on Dec 6, 2009 10:40 PM EST
in Braves Related Free Agents
105 comments
I guess the Atlanta Braves should be flattered that Rafael Soriano wants to remain in a Braves uniform, but with the recent signings of Billy Wagner and Takashi Saito, the Braves seem to be saying they would rather Soriano not return. Atlanta has presumably spent all of its allocated budget on the bullpen, so Soriano's presence, if he were to accept arbitration, would likely not last long, as the Braves would be inclined to trade him rather than pay him.
SI.com's Jon Heyman is reporting that Soriano is leaning towards accepting arbitration. This flies in the face of what he reported earlier in the week, that Soriano would certainly reject arbitration. Since then we've had different reporters referencing different sources about what Soriano's decision will be. By the way, he has until midnight Monday night to decide.
All this begs the question, why would Soriano accept arbitration? Is it purely because he thinks he can make more money in one season? The most he would get by accepting arbitration is around $8 million, but in the free agent market he could likely get close to that per year for three to four years -- ensuring much more guaranteed money. Furthermore, Soriano must know that the Braves may not be able to afford to keep him and will trade him. With the ability to more closely control what team he ends up with through free agency, why would he give away that control by accepting arbitration and allowing the Braves to trade him wherever they please?
Accepting arbitration just doesn't make any sense. This is why I have a hard time believing some of this hype. It feels like a technique that his agent is using to stir up more interest in his client, or to get his client signed sooner rather than later, though I don't see him signing with another team tomorrow (but you never know).
Ken Rosenthal is supposed to have something on Soriano shortly, so we'll see if his info is any clearer about our reliever's course of action.
[UPDATE: 12/7 @ 11am]
Something I just learned about the Braves flexibility to trade Soriano were he to accept arbitration, under MLB rules Soriano could not be traded until June 1 without his permission. This certainly would complicate things, unless Soriano is simply looking for an arbitration pay day and doesn't care where he ends up. Mark Bowman and others have also mentioned that the Braves could release him in spring training because his contract is non-guaranteed, but that scenario makes my head hurt, as the Braves would have to to show just cause in doing so.
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But our offense could take a step back because of the financial restraints. With no money to spend and no first baseman yet, we’d be in serious trouble. I’d like to say it would be no big deal, that we could deal Lowe and spend that $15M, but I think we all know at this point that that’s much easier said that done.
I’ll sweat bullets until 12:01 Tuesday morning.
who plays where? thats sick defensively
by BravesRaleigh on Dec 6, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
what about Heyward?
I’d rather have Diaz/McLouth in LF, Cameron in CF and Heyward in RF. Good lord.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
Heyward full time with McLouth in a platoon?
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 7, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Once again, though, how do we sign Cameron? We’re pretty well out of money if Soriano accepts arb, and therein lies the rub. Moving Caveman to first to plug that hole opens up another one in LF.
“What we have here is a failure to communicate.”
If we trade DLowe or Javy, we’ll have money.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
IF. Like I stated originally, I hope we can move DLowe and thus do that, but you can’t go out there banking on it. There has to be a contingency plan should we not find a taker- that’s the point I’m making. If he accepts and we can’t move a starter, we’re screwed.
Yep but like I said before, lets hope Wren didn’t think everything he had planned this offseason would go as smoothly as he would of liked.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 6, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
im pretty sure
we see heyward before schafer next season. perhaps at the same time. that would be nice
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Very good questions you ask Gondeee
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
Soriano Can't Be Traded until June 15
If he signs with Braves, per MLB rules… or did they change that?
Rosenthal’s info was shit, essentially just what Heyman said. He also said the obvious quote of “THE BRAVES WANNA TRADE A STARTER FOR A BAT”
Maybe the offers Soriano is getting aren’t exactly up his alley. Regardless, I busted out a cute little analysis of what could happen if he accepts, just click the top link right below this post.
Nuggets from Rosenthal
[This regarding Soriano’s supposedly difficult decision on accepting Atl arbitration]
“Soriano, one of the top relievers on the market, could end up pitching in the middle rather than the late innings if he returns to the Braves, damaging his future earning power.
“The Braves are committed to newly signed free-agent setup man Takashi Saito and closer Billy Wagner in the eighth and ninth innings, according to a source with knowledge of the club’s thinking. Righty Peter Moylan and lefty Eric O’Flaherty could split the seventh, effectively pushing Soriano back to the sixth inning.”
( more at http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10357594)
Here’s a much more interesting bit, though, from his Saturday blog…
“Mark DeRosa is in a waiting game.
“Waiting for the Cardinals to learn whether they will re-sign left fielder Matt Holliday.
“Waiting for the Yankees to learn whether they will re-sign left fielder Johnny Damon.
“Waiting for the Braves to clear money by trading a starting pitcher.
“Waiting for the Giants to decide whether they prefer Adrian Beltre or another option at third base.”
Rosenthal must be shoot retarded if he thinks that for some reason, Bobby would use Soriano before using Moylan or a LOOGY.
KRos isn’t the brightest bulb in the tanning bed, that’s for sure.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
I'm not big fans of him or Heyman
The reporters I take seriously are mostly at ESPN (Olney, Stark, Crasnick).
by SmithnCompany on Dec 6, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
what?
that makes no sense. No way Soriano pitches the 6th inning. In all honesty I wouldnt be surprised if Saito was in the 7th then Soriano in the 8th.
by drumzalicious on Dec 6, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Let's face it.
These guys aren’t going to work every day. If we have them all, there will be plenty of late-inning time for them to pitch.
this is true
im speaking for those times where we have to use all three.
by drumzalicious on Dec 6, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN...
… what a pitching staff we will have. Wow! Frank will have to get creative.
Oh, Bobby.
But here's the thing
If Javy is the odd man out, I really don’t think Atlanta’s rotation for next season will be as hot as many may think. It will definitely be good, possibly above average but not one that can do a lot with little to no offense.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 6, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
There is plenty of sense for Soriano to accept arbitration.
Which is why I thought the Wagner signing was premature. Contrary to gondee’s statement, it is pretty clear he can’t get close to $8 million for 3-4 years on the open market, if he could, his agent wouldn’t be making statements about him possibly accepting arbitration. Being a often-injured relief pitcher with a Class A tag, his market is not what people thought it would be. It might still be good enough for him to decline, but it might not. And if he accepts, we do have issues. A great bullpen (with tons of injury question marks) but the offense won’t be significantly upgraded from the start of last year unless Heyward starts out on fire.
....
this is what i was thinking. He doesn’t really have all taht many great offers, and so his agent was trying to bluff. Let him accept. We can’t move him til later in the year, but when we do we could prolly get some decent prospects for him don’t ya think?
I'm going to go to bed
and just hope to be surprised in the morning. I have a feeling this whole week is going to be crazy.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
Hello all, new to Talking Chop
just wanted to chime in here on Soriano. I agree with most sentiments of you guys. If Soriano is still contemplating Arb, then hes not gettin the attention they thought he would. Ill say it def throws a wrench into our offensive plans. I have hope, albeit a slim one, that FW will get it straight though.
It’s all agent hype. Isn’t that where this rumor came from in the first place, his agent? They’re feigning disinterest so they can trick the Dodgers or someone into thinking they have to throw an overblown contract at him to get his attention.
49th State Hardball
Fan Blog of the Alaska Baseball League
The only problem with your theory
It only works if a team jumps in and offers Sori a contract within the next 24 hours. If he accepts Arb he obviously isn’t pinning for a contract from someone else and if he declines then the leverage is gone.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
What's the rule
on how quickly a player can be traded if he accepts arbitration? Would we be able to trade him right away or have to wait until midseason?
If this all really does go wrong and the team is saying after the offseason “we couldn’t get as good a bat because Soriano accepted arbitration” then I’d think some players might be a little bitter at the guy for coming back and taking up payroll when he clearly was not wanted as part of the plan, fair or not.
Apparently that deadline is June 1, but we CAN move him before that so long as he approves the deal:
Joel Sherman of the New York Post notes that if he accepts arbitration, Soriano cannot be traded before June 1st without his permission. I imagine he’d approve a deal in order to get a better role, though. Can Soriano find a two-year deal on the open market, given his health history and the draft pick cost?
hattip MLBTR
I don't think this is true
An arbitration signing is not the same as a free agent signing. The CBA treats them differently in that an arb signing is a non-guaranteed contract. I’m pretty sure that trade provision does not apply in this case.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
I knew I shouldn’t trust the New York media. OK, new plan- cut his ass in spring training if the contract isn’t guaranteed.
haha
Sorry to P on your P. LOL
One thing I failed to add is that we have to have “good reason” to cut Sori in ST. Not 100% sure what that means except we can’t just dump him due to salary concerns.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
that'd be a super-solid bullpen trio if Soriano accepted...
now all we need are a couple of power bats in the lineup….
But unless we find a team to take on a majority of DLowe's contract
We won’t have any money to get a power bat.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 7, 2009 2:09 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Looks like this is probably going to happen. Shame the Braves didn’t wait on at least Saito (if not Wagner) until after the deadline passed.
Maybe a silver lining here would be to deal Moylan for something nice.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
If Soriano accepts, the bullpen gets too full in a hurry, since you can only carry 8 at most. Wagner, Saito, Proctor and Sori would all be untradeable, and EOF is the requisite LOOGY. That leaves Medlen, who has a bright future with the Braves, Acosta, who isn’t worth crap, and Moylan, who is valuable, but not as necessary if the Braves have Wagner, Saito, Sori, and Medlen to pitch some combination of the 7th-9th innings.
Trading Moylan wouldn’t free up salary, but he would probably garner them a decent prospect or two (to make up for the one that they “lost” if Sori accepts arb), and it would round the bullpen out fairly well.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Proctor signed a minor league deal...
and isn’t on the 40 man roster. He’s not as much a part of that unit (at least yet), as others.
True. But the issue is less the 40-man and more the 8 spots in the pen. Proctor’s not guaranteed a spot (no one is, technically), but if he’s the odd man out, the Braves get nothing, like if it’s Acosta.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Not true...
if he’s the “odd man out”, he can just go to Gwinnett until we need him. Which is kind of like Acosta I guess (not sure if he has options or what).
Don’t know about others, but I was concerned about it, especially with the Saito signing.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Just saying...
I remember quite a few held that sentiment of there being no reason to rush towards Wagner or Saito before arb decisions were done.
I’m thinking if Soriano accepts it may not be as big a deal as some people think, does anyone know what the player budget is going to be this year? Maybe it could be more than we might think because FW wants Bobby to go out with a big winning year. FW may have wrangled an extra 10 mil out of Liberty we don’t really know do we? Thought I’d throw that out there, I almost sure we get rid of most or all of Lowe’s contract and we’ll probably let KJ and Church go. If Soriano stays it will be a pretty awesome BP. That maybe, just MAYBE, Bobby won’t run the same 3-4 players into the ground or keeping them in when it is clear they don’t have the right stuff on any particular night. I can dream can’t I ?
Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher
With our crap attendance last year, we’re almost certainly not going to increase our payroll in any significant way.
Liberty Media is not going to risk losing money on this team.
by get swoll yunel on Dec 7, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
If he accepts we would probably get rid of Lowe for a bag of balls.
With his injury history he would be dumb to accept if there are indeed multi-year deals out there. My best guess is that this is a bluff and his agent is leveraging his value up by telling teams that he is willing to agree to arb. if he doesn’t get what they feel he deserves.
DOB still thinks that Soriano won’t accept. I have to agree with him, i think this will a be a moo point come midnight when he declines. This is a ploy to get his suitors to step up.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
Finally!
Someone got it! “Its like a cow’s opinion, its moo.”
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
Braves get Brian bruney?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/bruney-headed-to-braves.html
Also, dont trade javier vazquez.
by esadb on Dec 7, 2009 9:34 AM EST via mobile reply actions
This is not looking like agent hype, unfortunately.
Valverde is making the same noises Soriano is. It appears that the market for closers is not developing like people thought that it would. It’s a shame—-GM’s finally realizing that closers are not worth the price tag they command right when it causes us financial issues.
SO if Valverde accepted from the Reds...
would that make Soriano more or less likely to accept, since it’d leave he and Gonzo and little else with success among free agent options (seriously, guys like Gregg and Rodney would be out there, but neither has EVER pitched at the level of Soriano when he’s on).
Yes, Valverde accepting arbitration would make it less likely that Soriano does...
…as it increases the market. However, there is a prisoner’s dilemna situation here as the deadline to accept is the same for both and both will take it down to the wire. Valverde talking as if he might accept, however, is bad, because it shows that the market for relievers is not what the players want.
Bowman's updated his blog
He’s not as confident now that Sori will decline arb. Linky
Over the past 48 hours, I haven’t changed my belief that Soriano will ultimately decline this non-guaranteed, one-year contract that could place him in a role where he’s eating up the innings ahead of Billy Wagner and Takashi Saito.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
That brings up a good question- I thought all MLB contracts were guaranteed? How does arb circumvent that?
As far as I know
I think the CBA specifies that arbitration signings are non-guaranteed contracts and not considered free agent signings. I’m no expert though!
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
That is really silly. Soriano pitching behind Saito? Not likely. We may not be happy with Soriano for taking arbitration but I doubt we’d refuse to use him in a proper manner. Maddux did the same thing but we did not make him the 5th starter or put him in mid relief. I imagine that if Soriano came back, Cox would begin using both closers depending on the LH/RH batters coming up in the 8th/9th. If one proved to be more dominant, that guy would eventually become the primary closer. Still, I would be in shock if Soriano did not receive a better offer.
NY post update on Soriano
Joel Sherman chimes in with his two cents, though I have no idea why!
And keep in mind that under MLB rules Soriano could not be traded until June 1 without his permission, so Atlanta could not simply turn around and deal him.
I love it when Journalists spout out mis-information. Unless I am wrong, Sori accepting arb means he can be traded immediately or even cut during spring training (getting us off the hook for his contract). An Arb signing means he has a non-guaranteed contract and the free agent signing rules do not apply.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
The deal about Jon Heyman
This Soriano rumor came from a tweet by Heyman. Heyman passes on unsubstantiated rumor tweets all the time. His columns are generally fine, but I would advise anyone to not put a lot of stock in his tweets.
Draft Picks or Trade Bounty
Would it be better for the Braves to have the two draft picks gained by Soriano becoming a free agent, or would the Braves be better off signing him and trading him?
Trade
The prospects we get in a trade are farther along, and already have their signing bonuses paid. No question it’s a trade over draft picks
The trick will be someone willing to both pick up that arb salary AND give us prospects, when they’ll know they could’ve swooped in and offered a one year deal at the same salary and saved their prospects. I doubt anyone will want to deal for him during the offseason. He’d be a highly attractive piece at the deadline next year, but of course that’s a wee bit too late for our purposes.
Don't expect a huge bounty for him if he accepts arbitration...
…remember that the same teams that we would trade him to could just sign him for one draft pick (and a second round one for half the teams)—-if they don’t want to do it now, I doubt we get a more valuable prospect for him later.
True.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 7, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying we’ll get a premium guy like a Brett Wallace out of him later, but a team looking to bolster their pen for a run would only have to pay 1/3 of his salary if they add him at the deadline next year, and we could actually get a decent piece for moving him. But in the short term no one will take him, so for our purposes now we’d be screwed.
Bobby Cox interview on XM - mid-day Mon.
Discussed ‘his last winter mtg’.
“We’re looking for a hitter now.”
“prefer a RH bat or a skilled defensive LH hitter”
Discussion: Importance of shoring up bullpen early. Frank had scouts follow Wagner after Braves saw him in NY late last year.
“Might have the best bullpen ever in baseball [if Soriano and/or Gonalez were to accept arb.]… though pricey” (understatement of the year!!)
Escobar discussion about how he gets to the next level – involves conducting himself well on field. Best hands for a SS Bobby has ever seen. Anybody who can help him mature in that way? “We’ve had all kinds of meetings with him about that” (laughter). Some old school talk about not pointing up to your mama in heaven after a homer – ‘we frown on that’.
Brian McCann question from (catcher) Buck Martinez. Boby sez yes – he’s a definite team leader now. He’s a gamer, his eyes are corrected now, ready to go.
>>Overall: chatty conversation; nothing newsy.
Hadn't seen anyone confirm the success of McCann's...
most recent surgeries, so that’s a plus and kind of newsy.
I heard Bobby Cox say in a radio interview today that they were “fixed” now. That’s as in-depth as it got on the subject, though.
You know...
He looked like he was doing fine at his benefit softball game – no glasses, no squinting. Then I talked to him about a week and a half later at the Hudson Benefit dinner, but completely forgot to ask him about the eye surgery. But again, no glasses, no squinting then either.
Dang…new screenames out the wazzoo today! It must be the offseason!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 6:32 PM EST reply actions
Jerry Crasnick is reporting that the Astros are talking to Soriano’s agents today…which is good and bad, because their 1st round pick is protected, but it means we won’t be stuck with a $23M back of the bullpen…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 6:38 PM EST reply actions
Astros…just when they’e about to do something smart like not buy an $8M closer for a 75-87 team, they go and court Soriano.
Gotta love ’em.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Can't we just call Drayton Moore, or Stan Kasten...
and get them to make overtures of 3 years for $20m+, that somehow don’t materialize tomorrow.
A 2nd round pick isn't that bad either...
when added to the supplemental pick. It’s not as pricey, and the Braves have done pretty well picking in the 2nd lately anyway.
At this point.
I don’t care what pick we get. Just no acceptance.
Depends on which Ryan Franklin camp you belong to…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
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