All Through the Night, not a Creature was Stirring, Not Even the Braves or Yankees... or were they

by gondeee on Dec 22, 2009 9:22 AM EST in Trade News Comment 27 comments

The Christmas references just keep on coming. Last night looked like it was going to turn into a fruitful night for moving unwanted overpriced starters for the Atlanta Braves, but all we got was a Twittering whirlwind of New York Yankees rumors that ultimately culminated in the Bombers signing minor league catcher Mike Rivera.

But this morning the rumors just won't stop. Every Twitter-enabled NY journalist is chiming in that the Yankees are in hot pursuit of starting pitching. In fact, the NY Post's Joel Sherman thinks the Braves are in the lead with Javier Vazquez, not Derek Lowe:

Yankees working hard to re-acquire Javier Vazquez, I have learned, link to follow soon [...]

Braves have always liked Nick Swisher and Melky Cabrera, but haven't been able to determine yet who Yankees would surrender

These types of rumors are flowing out of NY faster than the snow drifts, faster than Stephen Colbert can skeleton down a mountain, faster than... you get the picture.

Vazquez would certainly yield more in return, and may be the only way for Atlanta to get the big bat it desires. The market for Lowe may also be non-existent, not hard to believe considering the money still owed him and the miserable finish he had to last season. If the Braves move Vazquez and keep Lowe, they'll have some feelings to patch up, but that should be doable. At least the Braves haven't come out publicly and denounced Lowe or his recent comments about the team. That leaves them on the high ground with the ability to still reach out to the embattled pitcher.

This story seems to be rapidly evolving, so there's no reason for anyone to stray too far away from a computer. Updates here as they happen.

[UPDATE 9:35am] Jon Heyman chimes in with more confirmation that Javier Vazquez is the Yankees' target:

yankees closing in on deal for javier vazquez, si.com learns.

He'll have a story up shortly. Remember that while the Yanks are trying to get Vazquez, it doesn't mean they're close. I'm sort of quietly salivating at what we could possibly get from the Yankees in return for Vazquez, who should net us a very good return.

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Crap. If Wren panics and trades JV because the market hasn’t developed yet for Lowe, I’ll be bummed.

If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.

by Yakker on Dec 22, 2009 9:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I hope this doesn't come to fruition...

I don’t like anything we’d get back for Vazquez and We’d still be stuck with Lowe.

by GORILLATUX on Dec 22, 2009 9:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wren has already made some mistakes, Vasquez would be a nail in the coffin...

Wren is not a genius, and is actually making some mistakes folks. Contrary to what most Wren-worshipers on here believe I kinda think he isn’t the smartest GM around. I am gonna be furious if he trades Vasquez. Come on Wren, unload Lowe and use your brains for a bit…

by fizzbot on Dec 22, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Why would you not offer arb. to Laroche. I would have been a nice bridge if he accepted to Freeman, at a good price. If he didn’t then another draft pick would be ours.

by atlbravesfn12 on Dec 22, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right.

It’s definitely the best idea to trade your players at the bottom of their value, not the top.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 22, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If we, you know, got something of value for Vazquez, I’d agree with you.

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by bigjoe on Dec 22, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Vizcaino seems of value...

we needed an OF to fill the hole until Heyward/Schafer were ready, and Cabrera is replacement level there. We got a little salary relief in likely a lefty reliever we like better. It’s not great value, but you can find it if you open your eyes and get out the tears from losing Javy.

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 22, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unloading Vasquez would be stupid.

I think its a horrible move even if you got Swisher and Cabrera together.

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by DrB on Dec 22, 2009 9:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Amen

Wren isn’t winning GM of the year award already, and Vasquez would finally wake some folks up around here to the fact that Wren isn’t that great of a GM.

by fizzbot on Dec 22, 2009 9:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

What about...

Jesus Montero?

by Travisio on Dec 22, 2009 9:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

the chances of

the yankees giving up an elite hitting prospect for 1 year of javier vazquez is a bit unlikely.

as of right now, i don’t really like the deal for atlanta. I guess I can understand it, but melky, mike dunn, and a prospect? eh. I don’t get the love for Melky. Average defensive CF, enough range, good arm, a bit overreliant on it. Doesn’t have much pop, doesn’t project to have much pop. Aggressive swinger. Dunn looks to be a potentially interesting arm, but a pen arm.

by toonsterwu on Dec 22, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

looks like rosenthal is suggesting 2 for 1

earlier heyman had suggested 3 for 2 (Boone logan also going to ny).

If it’s just two for 1 (Vazquez for Cabrera/Dunn), I still don’t get it.

Yankees are having an excellent offseason, though. They nab Curtis Granderson without giving up much due to Arizona deciding to move Scherzer, and now this? They could very well resign Johnny Damon and have a better lineup than what they would’ve had (with Cabrera in LF).

by toonsterwu on Dec 22, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn seems like a good, cheaper LOOGY option.

Lefties hit something like .150 against him at AAA last year.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 22, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unless we get some insane prospect I am gonna be pissed

by fizzbot on Dec 22, 2009 9:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

You were gonna be pissed no matter what. When you start out with the assumption the GM is an idiot no matter what he does you’re gonna think he’s an idiot.

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by cbwilk on Dec 22, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am going to be the voice of dissent here.

I would be okay with Vazquez for Swisher and Melky. I think Lowe rebounds next year; his poor performance last year was mostly due to an absurd .330 BABIP against; his career BABIP against is .299. That is generally out of a pitcher’s control. If that normalizes next year, Lowe should be fine. His K/9 and BB/9 were a bit off his norms, which is a bit worrying, but with his track record, I think he could turn those around, too. Don’t get me wrong, not as good as Vazquez, but still a solid starter. With JJ, Hanson and Hudson in the rotation as well, our rotation should be fine.

I like Swisher. His defense is average and he can play OF and 1B. He has good OBP and good power, and is a switch hitter. Melky isn’t a bad fit either. He is an average hitter, but can play all three outfield positions decently, which means if Heyward starts the season in AAA, he can start for a couple of months, but Melky also makes a good fourth outfielder who isn’t going to block Heyward when Heyward is ready, whether that is at the start of the season or in June or whenever. As a fourth OF, he is ideal; he is a switch hitter who can spell Diaz against tough righties and McLouth against tough lefties.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ll call Wren out when he does something stupid; I think that not offering arbitration to LaRoche was pretty dumb—-as we would have been fine with it if LaRoche had accepted, so we basically flushed away a sandwich pick by not offering arbitration. That being said, I would be okay with this deal. It sucks to lose Javy, but remember, hey, Javy never liked New York and is a free agent after 2010. If Lowe has a good year, we can move him and resign Javy next offseason.

by cavebird on Dec 22, 2009 9:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

caveat to my thoughts

If we don’t get Swisher, the deal sorta sucks ass.

by cavebird on Dec 22, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if it's swisher

it’s not bad. That said, as of now, no indication that it’s swisher. here’s hoping for braves fans that it is, as I just don’t see the value in Melky to justify this deal.

by toonsterwu on Dec 22, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

Melky is a nice piece, but has his highest value as a fourth outfielder. That’s a great return for Lowe, not so great for Vazquez. Mike Dunn = Jesse Chavez. Of course, the rumor is that we also get “a prospect”. Crap, that doesn’t tell us much. If it is Montero (which it won’t be) that’s a great deal for us. If it is a crappy prospect, that sucks.

by cavebird on Dec 22, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How do you know we would have been fine if LaRoche had accepted.

Who says we have $8 mil for that spot on the roster?

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 22, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm, we need a first baseman...

…and if he accepted and we had to move salary, we could always trade Javy for very little in return. Oh, wait….

by cavebird on Dec 22, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It appears the prospect is Arodys Vizcaino.

He’s a nice prospect, but a young pitcher who is still pretty far away. If the deal is as reported: Boone Logan & Javy for Melky, Dunn, and Vizcaino, I actually think both sides lose in the deal. The Yankees give up a very useful piece in Melky, and a good prospect in Vizcaino. The Braves give up a pitcher who is great in Atlanta, but whose one weakness is giving up gopher balls. The Yankees get a pitcher who is very good but gives up too many home runs and doesn’t seem like he would play well in their new bandbox in a division full of power hitters.

by cavebird on Dec 22, 2009 10:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

whoa

If it’s Arodys Vizcaino, heck of a deal for the Braves. He’s a very good talent, but for one year of Javy …. if so I like this deal for Atlanta (and it also makes sense for the Yankees)..

by toonsterwu on Dec 22, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what would the salary situation be like after taking on melkys contract and dumping vazquez’s?

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Dec 22, 2009 10:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

well

I believe Melky is up for arbitration. He made 1.4 mil last year – assume an increase, up to, say, maybe 3? I’m never that good at these guesses, so I could be off, but the short of it is, that’s about 7-9 mil cleared off from the books for 2010. Is that enough for you guys to make a run at a bat?

by toonsterwu on Dec 22, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

idk how i feel about this deal right now..i mean we’d get their #1 pitching prospect who is similiar to teheran…but we lose vazquez and still have a pissed off derek lowe…don’t really see much of a change with the boone logan and mike dunn swap…but idk about melky, his defense isn’t anything to brag about but he could be valuable as a 4th OF…he’s still very young…this deal doesn’t seem to address our needs, a big bat…this would just create more of a log jam in the OF with melky, diaz, mclouth, schafer, and heyward

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Dec 22, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This "pissed-off Derek Lowe" business is so overblown.

What difference does it make? He’ll pitch as well as he can. He’s a pro.

And if there’s no change from Logan to Dunn, we won. Dunn’s younger, cheaper, and under team control longer. And it also gives us more roster flexibility, because Logan’ll run out of options sooner (if he’s not now.)

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 22, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs