Rosterbate good times, Come On!
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 18, 2009 12:41 AM EST
302 comments
The base we're working with, plus minor leaguers...
C-Brian McCann (LH) $5.5m
C-David Ross (RH) $1.6m
1B-Troy Glaus (RH) $2m (+ incentives)
2B-Martin Prado (RH) ~$0.5m
3B-Chipper Jones (S) $13m
SS-Yunel Escobar (RH) ~$1m
RF-Matt Diaz (RH) $2.55m
CF-Nate McLouth (LH) $4.5m
LF-Melky Cabrera (S) ~$2.5m
IF/OF-Omar Infante (RH) $2.225m
IF/OF-
IF/OF-Joe Thurston/Minimum salary rookie ~$0.5m
IF/OF-Another minimum salary player ~$0.5m
SP-Tim Hudson (RH) $9m
SP-Tommy Hanson (RH) ~$0.5m
SP-Jair Jurrjens (RH) ~$1m
SP-Kenshin Kawakami (RH) $6.667m
SP-Derek Lowe (RH) $15m
RP-Billy Wagner (LH) $6.75
RP-Takashi Saito (RH) $3.2m (with $0.5-2.3 in possible bonuses)
RP-Peter Moylan (RH) ~$1m
RP-Eric O'Flaherty (LH) ~$0.5m
RP-Kris Medlen (RH) ~$0.5m
RP-Jesse Chavez (RH) ~ $0.5m
RP-Abreu/Valdez/Reyes/Lyman/Hyde/etc ~$0.5m
This puts us just around $82-85m total (depending on Glaus incentives), with likely another $5-10m available (depending on what Liberty Media is willing to spend). Still, that much money opens a lot of options for the remaining needs of just to fill out the bench and the last relief role. That leaves the majority of the approximately ~$10m to be split somehow who knows how now with Glaus signed, since at least two of the 3 bench spots, in addition to the last reliever spot, are likely filled with a rookie or veteran journeyman getting the league minimum.
Now, you fill in the blanks.
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No clue what we’re gonna do, but it seems like if we unload Lowe then it’ll be a lot of money on hand to not go big when big is what we need with holes at cleanup and at the power positions of corner outfield and first base. I can see how we may not think wrapping up a lot of money longterm in FAs like Holliday or Bay is worth it with young talent coming up in the outfield, but if we have that kind of cash with those holes, we really need to do more than just sign Xavier Nady or someone like that.
I think a lot depends on what we get for a starter...
how much salary do we take back? Do we get Swisher, Garner, Cabrera, or another OF from the Yankees now that they got Nick Johnson to DH and Granderson for CF, or who knows what from the Angels? That trade sets up our other needs, be it 1B or corner OF, and how much we can spend. There seem to be a handful of solid free agents out there—Derosa, KJ, Glaus, Delgado, Nady, Garko, etc, but I doubt we make a move for any before moving a starter, unless it’s low for a versatile option like Nady or Garko that could play 1B or LF/RF.
Lowe must go.
Lowe for Garner with no partial payment of Lowe’s salary, and be done with it.
To elaborate:
Garner is young, controllable, inexpensive, has tremendous speed (which we lack as a team), will provide tremendous CF defense (which we lack) and could bat leadoff, allowing Nate to move to LF and down in batting order, eliminates any need to count on Logan for anything other than a year of development on the farm, and should be very tradeable later.
The extra $15M puts us in a great position to add one or two impact RH bats, either via FA or trades of prospects.
For all those reasons...
…the Yankees probably won’t do the deal.
But they need a solid middle of the rotation innings eater, and with the addition of Granderson, have no room for both Cabera and Garner. They probably would rather give up Cabera’s big contract, but need the pitcher more than the budget relief, so Garner could maybe be had.
If the choice is Melky Cabrera or Brett Gardner...
I don’t know which one I’d rather have.
Cabrera is more expensive, with about 4 full seasons under his belt, but is younger by a year. He’s solid defensively, and while not a great player at the plate, he’s not bad for a 7/8 hitter, especially when considering he’s a switch hitter. Nothing special, but you know you’re getting a solid player.
Gardner is cheaper, but older. His first season getting any time last year saw two good months, around a good bit of bad. With his speed, has the higher “ceiling” than Cabrera, but is also less of a known quantity with the lower floor. Also, a lefty which isn’t exactly a good thing if we’re talking a future all lefty OF alongside Schafer and Heyward.
I
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 18, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
If the choice is Melky Cabrera or Brett Gardner...
I choose a stick in the eye.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Either one would be a fine return for Lowe.
If we don’t eat any salary. Think of them as the outfield equivalents of Jesse Chavez. They are both still cheap and we could use them as fourth OF or move them on elsewhere.
by cavebird on Dec 18, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't think Yankees are moving an OFer
Looks like negotiations with Damon have broken down, so trading Cabrera means that Brett Gardner becomes a starter for them. Given that these are the New York freakin’ Yankees, I doubt they’ll consider that acceptable. And if they deal Gardner, they have zero depth in the OF, except for some former Rule 5 guy named Jamie Hoffman.
I bet Jamie was really excited that he was picked…until he realized he was going to the Yankees and had no hope of sticking. Shame, he’s a nice dude. Gotta love the Canadians.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Like THOR!
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
A stick in the eye would also be cheap.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Yes, but for matters of protocol...
…the Braves can’t trade Lowe for a stick in the eye.
As a future consideration?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
What do you have against Gardner? His career minor league numbers were .289 /.389 /.383.
If he had the opportunity to actually play, he very well could be one of the best CFs and leadoff men in the NL, and steal 50-60 bases.
When was the last time the Yankees
started a guy in the OF who couldn’t slug .400? That’s all I’m saying. Fans would be all over that.
Cabrera two years ago?
.249 .301 .341 .641
Ugh
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Both are team controlled for a while...
But I think Gardner won’t hit FA until like 2015. If one sticks, it’s not bad to have the one that you can have cheaper and longer.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
You just suggested we had a choice.
That would imply that they were willing to let go of either in the hypothetical deal.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
It’s Gardner and he’s a fourth outfielder at best. If you want a repeat of Gregor Blanco’s 2008 season, then yeah I can see the desire for Gardner but if we want to be a playoff team, Gardner shouldn’t be playing everyday. I 100% agree that this team could use a leadoff hitter and better defender in center but Gardner doesn’t have the skill to produce enough value to be an everyday player. Gardner’s speed and defense wont make up for the weak OPS enough to make him even a slightly below average everyday player.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
Dear Santa,
Thank you for the breakup of Tiger Woods and his wife, Elin Nordgreen. I love it…because I’m going to marry her now.
From, a lonely mvhsbball.
In Frank Wren I trust.
I think Tiger had a little more to do with that than Santa did…lol
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
Just remember all your pals at Talk Chop…unexpected and expensive gifts are always welcome.
Lowe is more than likely gone unless Wren gets a savory offer for Javier VaZqueZ. If the Braves can free up Lowe, hopefully they’ll extend Javier’s contract by 2 or 3 years. Locking up a great staff is how the Braves won so many division titles.
Just don’t overpay for the likes of Holliday.
They broke up?
Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.
The word is that that's the only way it's gonna happen.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
Sign Delgado pleaseeee…if he’s healthy, we get matt holliday type production for about 10 million dollars less
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
he was said to be on display...
either already, or in the near future back in Puerto Rico. I’m interested to see how the market for Delgado develops after that. He’ll at least get offers as a possible DH, but I’m still partial to Troy Glaus personally.
i wouldn’t mind either, but if both are available i think its pretty obvious delgado is the one to go after, the only thing glaus really has on delgado is that he is right handed and may come a little bit cheaper…
but in 08’ (both of their last full healthy season) these were their numbers
Glaus
.270 AVG, .483 SLG, .856 OPS 27 HR
Delgado
.271 AVG, .518 SLG, .871 OPS 38 HR
not to mention the fact that delgado is actually a first baseman, glaus is not
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
He was supposed to be...
But he’s not yet listed in the stats for the PRWL.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
Are those updated regularly?
he has been said in multiple places to have started last week…
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091130&content_id=7730374&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091214&content_id=7810630&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/12/17/winter.notes/
They are. They're 25+ games in.
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l133&lid=133&t=l_sta
He was supposed to play for Carolina, but he’s not listed in their or any other team’s stats.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Delgado can play first base and we get a power bat
The Spanish Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Dec 18, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Glaus
would be great to pick up if he #1 can play decent def at 1B and #2 that he is healthy…Though delgado has more a history to be that big bat for much cheaper than any other viable options that can fit the budget…Saying that, one of these guys will have to sign with the braves with an addition to a OF bat that could be a speedster leadoff type guy which could be done via trade market….Though this will depend on where we send Lowe and what is given back with the money that we will have to eat in any deal….I just hope Lowe deal will be done before the end of the yr so that we can get the guy what we won’t and not settle for left overs ALA FUGA to fill out the rest of the offensive needs for 10’….
Buster Olney (seen on MLBTR)...
says the Yankees are interested in Derosa. Perhaps a precursor allowing them to send us Swisher for Lowe?
Links...
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/yankees-rumors-damon-johnson-matsui.html
+
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/yankees-continue-talks-with-nick-johnson.html
+
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/odds-ends-johnson-.html (2nd bullet)
=
Yankees are planning to move Swisher for Lowe, and replacing him with Johnson and Derosa.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 18, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
I see it as well. I though so with the johson talks.
Vaquez is also an option for the yankees? I wouldn’t rule it out even if it’s not preferred.
I doubt Vazquez is an option with the Yankees.
His one weakness is HR and that would not be a good park for him. Also, his previous stint there did not go well.
If we get Swisher for Lowe and then get Delgado to play first base we are ready to go
The Spanish Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Dec 18, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
If we do Swisher for Lowe...
…I imagine that Swisher is the 1B and we sign another OF/1B like Nady. Given Swisher’s salary, we might not have the money for Delgado. On the other hand, if we could make that work, I would be quite pleased.
Swisher could be RF/LF...
depending on Heyward, and allow Schafer or Heyward to spend all year at AAA. If he’s the return, I’d assume Glaus/Delgado/Garko/etc on a 1 year deal to play first, and then signing a cheap veteran as either 2nd IF or 4th OF, with a cheap young player filling the other role.
Wouldn't that keep Heyward and Schafer down all year?
Barring an injury. Swisher is too good to shift to fourth OF. I guess overkill is good, but it might get pricey.
No, just one of them....
with Swisher able to play 1st some, maybe even CF some, and the right/left versaility of Diaz with McLouth/Heyward we can find playing time for all of them. Not both, and things would get tight in 2011 and 2012 if Freeman gets ready fast, but it’s all speculation anyway.
If we free up Lowe’s salary for Swisher we do have the money to get Delgado
The Spanish Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Dec 18, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Swisher is making $9 million or so this year...
…meaning we are only saving $6 million by moving Lowe. That leaves $9-12 million, which should be enough to get Delgado, but I wouldn’t be 100% certain.
That's next yeaar...
Swisher is $6.75 this year (saving just over 8 from Lowe), then $9m in 2011 (saving 6), with either a $1m buyout or $10.25 in 2012 (saving either 14 or 5 on year 3). Not as much of a salary dump as some are hoping for, but a solid bat (although I’m not sure he’s an 8 figure bat as he would be for a year or two).
Here is some serious rosterbating
Lowe (Full Contract) to Angels
McClouth (Eat 1.5 contract 2010 Eat 3.5 contract 2011)
for
Tori Hunter (Braves take on full contract and difference between McClouth)
Braves resign Ryan Church to one year deal
Braves sign either Nady/Garko/ for 1B
Braves sign F. Lopez for utility roll.
Fill rest with internal options.
Prado
Escobar
Chipper
Hunter
McCann
Nady
Diaz
Church/Heyward
Ross
Infante
Lopez
Cleven
Vazquez
Hudson
JJ
Hanson
Kawakami
Wagner
Saito
Moylan
O Flat
Medlen
and so forth.
Keeps us within budget and keeps all of our upcoming studs Kimbrel, Heyward, Freeman, Schafer, etc….. without being blocked.
Just imagine Heyward, Schafer, Hunter in the OF for 2011
I love rosterbating.
of course this all assumes that the angels are willing to go after bay or holliday to supplement the loss of Hunter
LF-Bay
CF-McClouth
RF-Bobby A.
DH-Matsui
3B-Wood/Izturis
SS-Aybar
2B-Kendrick
1B-morales
C-nap
Lowe
Weaver
Kazmir
Santana
Saunders
I mean this is a pretty good lineup and it doesn’t extend them financially at all. There already in the hunt for a bay/holliday deal and they’ve been rumored to be addressing pitching first.
I
I don't see how that keeps us within budget.
Lopez + Nady/Garko is going to be more than we have to spend without trading Lowe, and the Lowe trade you envision is not going to save us any salary. Also, Lopez wants to play every day and will get offers to do so, so I don’t know why he would sign on the cheap to play utility for us.
I am saying your math is bad.
With both Lowe and Vazquez, we are at about $88 million (the numbers above are $62 million without either; Lowe is $15 million, Vazquez about $11 million—-yes he may extend for less, but he won’t lower this year’s salary). That leaves us with $4-$6 million right now. If we do the Lowe trade you mention, we don’t save any salary, if I am reading it correctly, and given Hunter’s salary that makes sense. And, no, I don’t think we’ll get Garko & Lopez for that much. Lopez alone would probably be $5 million.
I think it is about $73 million
without Lowe and including Vazquez. I am going on what is posted above.
Remember Hunter's salary.
How are we adding only $3 million? We are adding $3 million and Lowe’s salary because Hunter is Lowe + $ 3 million. In your trade, we lose McLouth’s salary but pay the difference between Lowe + McLouth – Hunter to the Angels. Hunter isn’t $3 million more than McLouth, he is $3 million or so more than Lowe.
Lowe 15 mil 3 years
Hunter 18 mil 3 years
McClouth 4.5 mil 2010
McClouth 6.5 mil 2011
We net lose 1.5 million (eat) Mcclouth’s contract
We net lose 3.5 million (eat McClouth’s contract 2011
We don’t care about McClouth’s 2012 club option. That’s the angels flexibility and choice which has value.
I agree with that.
Your proposal is salary neutral—-we don’t gain or lose salary.
However, you aren’t starting at the right point:
$62 million for everyone we have now except for Lowe & Vazquez.
$11.5 for Vazquez
$15 for Lowe
That equals $88.5 million. Your trade does not lower that—-you are saying it is salary neutral, but subtracting Lowe’s salary twice—-once to make getting Hunter salary neutral and once again when you don’t start at $88 million.
Most of that is from...
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/atlanta-braves_15.html
And I assume Vasquez contract might change if Lowe is dealt and we extend him for 2-3 years.
Let's see where our disagreement is on the math.
First point: right now with Lowe & Vazquez we are at about $88 million.
Second point: your trade is salary neutral, hence we are still at $88 million.
Third point: that leaves $4-6 million after the trade for 1B/OF/UT
Which of these points do you disagree with?
Fail on Math!!!!
We are at 88 million with neutral. Dumb me:( I kept excluding both for some reason.
The infield market is flooded right now so we can find an IF for cheap
Not lopez I suppose but still. The budget here is not the concern. The likelyhood of hunter is what I thought the nay sayers would jump on.
OK, I'll jump
What does Hunter give ATL that McLouth doesn’t, for half the price?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
I think that would be...
…incredible defense and a bit extra power. However, the cost is a problem, as I noted below.
the cost is not a problem.
You basically dropped lowe’s contract for a power hitting RH bat at 3 million extra a year? we have more than 5 million to spend bro. We got at least 12 million (minimum) with hunter in the lineup. You only need a stop gate 1B and RF and a cheap utility guy. Which again the IF market is flooded.
How do you get the $12 million number?
With what we have right now, we are at about $88 million, leaving $4-$6 million to spend. The Lowe deal you propose saves no salary, so we still just have $4-6 million to spend, and while we have added a RH power bat, we also lost McLouth’s cheap production in the bargain. $4-6 million doesn’t allow for signing a particularly good 1B.
LOL @ incredible defense. Looks like someone used to watch Sportscenter in the early 2000s.
Power is just a means to an end (run production).
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Wow, I looked up the numbers and am shocked.
At least per the metrics, his defense has never been all that great.
You do know Hunter's had a negative UZR four years running, right?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
I doubt the Angels move Hunter...
…but hey since we’re rosterbating, I’ll run with it. Without Lopez, yeah, we could fit that into budget, but it does mean we have signed a relative scrub first baseman and a scrub outfielder to fill our pressing needs, while only upgrading from McLouth to Hunter. I would think our offense would be better if we just moved Lowe for salary relief (i.e. Jesse Chavez Mach II) and signed LaRoche/Delgado/Glaus to play first and someone like Nady for RF/fourth OF/back up 1B. Our defense, however, would be better.
If Church is the only competition...
…Heyward wins the job in spring training.
I dont think Felipe Lopez will be on the bench as a utillity roll, he starts in any team
The Spanish Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Dec 18, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
A utility roll?
DELICIOUS!
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
cheap veteran off the bench found...
A split deal, so sounds like he can make the club or be in Gwinnett if we need him. Nice pick up. Now add a RF, 1B, and perhaps a swing man if one or both of those signings are players with injury questions.
Nice pick up.
We didn’t have any lefty bench bats and he is pretty versitle.
I must have missed the moment in time when Joe Thurston become a veteran. Are we sure he has enough grit and moxie?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
I think I heard he was working on his calm eyes during this offseason.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
He hasn't smiled in months.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
The Mariners have acquired Milton Bradley for Carlos Silva.
Per MLBTR. So Bradley is no longer an option. And Nick Johnson is nearing a deal with the Yankees. What the hell is Wren doing? I trus him, but where is the big bat?
I don't think Bradley and Johnson count as the big bat.
And let’s face it, we won’t be getting a big bat until we move Lowe, the money isn’t there. I doubly love this trade because an NL team gets weaker, the Cubs can now sign Byrd who they want and keep him away from us, and who knows, maybe the Cubs will trot Silva out there against us at some point. ;)
I think the biggest bat we will get will be from the LaRoche/Delgado/Glaus trifecta.
Well have you seen the Angels lately?
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 18, 2009 2:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why do people keep signing him?
Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.
He isn’t that bad of a player and a decent 4th OF.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Great defense
Career UZR/150 of 13. That’s really, really good. It makes him one of the best 15-20 defensive outfielders in the major leagues. It’s really nice to know that UZR and scouting both agree on his defensive prowess.
He doesn’t get regular playing time, so his offensive numbers show some extreme flux from year to year, but he’s capable of providing league-average offense, or just below it. Meaning, he’s a good value.
by Bronn on Dec 18, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But he only hit 218 last year!
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Sarcasm fail
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Excellent corner OF defense and the ability to play a decent enough CF.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
Dang…they have made more moves than the Rangers now.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well guys
Someone else said it but I think we are going to end up coming out of this offseason with Nady and Swisher.
If Nady’s arm is strong enough he will play OF if not he could play 1B with Swisher playing wherever Nady isnt.
I wouldnt be to disappointed in a line-up of
Diaz RF
McLouth CF
Chip 3B
Swisher LF
Nady 1B
McCann C
Escobar SS
Prado 2B
Wren seems to be filling out our Bench as well with additions of Mitch Jones and Thurston
I want DeRosa for left, and Swisher at 1st.
CF McLouth
SS Escobar
3B Chipper
C McCann
LF DeRosa
1B Swisher
RF Diaz/Hinske
2B Prado
Diaz and Eric Hinske can platoon in right until Heyward is ready.
I think...
…just based on the numbers, that Swisher/Nady/DeRosa would be better in right with Diaz in left. I am not particularly thrilled with DeRosa in left—-his bat is okay at second, but pretty weak for an OF. Diaz is a better hitter. In your scenario, if would make more sense to have DeRosa move to a super utility role when Heyward is ready rather than start DeRosa every day over Diaz.
In that case,
DeRosa probably wouldn’t sign with us. He probably wants to play every day, and we already have a superutility guy in Infante.
Assuming we clear Lowe's salary
Where’s that $15-$20 million going? We’re not involved in the Bay/Holliday bidding. We’re probably looking for an extension for Escobar and maybe Diaz or JJ as well. So who’s the big bat that’s available in the $10 million range?
Carlos Delgado is about all I could come up with. Maybe Xavier Nady, but given his injury concerns, I don’t see him being that costly. And Delgado isn’t even that big an upgrade over LaRoche. I’d rather keep Adam, who is younger, probably a bit cheaper, and better defensively.
I wish
ppl would stop mentioning Delgado. we have enough players over 35 already on our roster.
by drumzalicious on Dec 18, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
We are looking for a first baseman
for one or two years, it makes sense for an older guy who knows he isn’t going to get a longer contract anyway.
It's funny you seized on my comment
When I concluded by saying I’d rather keep LaRoche. Delgado is just the guy people might see as an upgrade, and is probably one of the few guys we’d sign, but need to clear Lowe’s salary to afford. If we were going to resign LaRoche, we’ve got maybe $7 million to play with and that’s probably his price range.
i know you said you would rather keep LaRoche i was just venting from seeing tons of ppl mention him.
by drumzalicious on Dec 18, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
ok, he is 35 but he is the best bat in our roster at the age of 38
The Spanish Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Dec 19, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
personally i would rather take a chance on someone young coming off surgery than someone old. just my opinion.
by drumzalicious on Dec 19, 2009 3:36 AM EST up reply actions
your an idiot.
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
When you make a post like that...
…I feel obliged to be the grammar police. When calling someone an idiot, it is usually best to tell them “you’re” and idiot rather than “your” and idiot because doing the later makes the reader question who the idiot is. Sort of like the famous old picture with a protester holding a sign reading “Go Home Morans!”
So of course, I make the typo fail, lol.
That should be an “an” after “you’re” and “your,” not an “and.”
so YOU’RE one of those guys…
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
wait
im an idiot for preferring a guy who is young coming of surgery than one who is older? wow ok.
by drumzalicious on Dec 21, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
In all likelihood, the $15-20 million...
…goes to a first baseman and an outfielder. Various candidates include Delgado, LaRoche, Glaus, Nady, Marlon Byrd (ugh), Ryan Garko, etc.
I'd guess Lowe's $ is slated for...
1B, RF/LF, and raises/extensions to current players like Jurrjens, Escobar, Hanson, etc.
There aren't particularly any great ones.
now that Cameron has signed. The problem is, without moving Lowe, our options are worse than what is out there because we don’t have much money at all then.
Holliday and Bay are the only ones but even still i hope FW isnt going after them. Bay is terrible in the field and Holliday is more of a #3 hitter than a clean-up hitter. Yes he is an upgrade over what we had last year but for what he is asking we might as well go after bigger bats than his.
With 15-20 mil open we could make a deal for Miguel Cabrera. Im not sure if the Tigers are still clearing payroll or not but he is someone i wouldnt mind giving up Freeman for.
Freeman + a couple of Minor league arms for Cabrera could work. The quality of the arms would depend on how much the tigers eat of his salary. Ideally they would eat enough to make his salary for us 18mil a year.
Then we could go on to have Heyward start in RF at the beginning of the season and not have a ton of pressure for him to perform well since every other spot in the lineup would be solid.
that would make our 2010 team:
Diaz LF
McLouth CF
Chipper 3B
Cabrera 1B
McCann C
Escobar SS
Heyward RF
Prado 2B
Rotation:
Hudson
Vazquez
Jurrjens
Hanson
Kawakami
BP:
Wagner
Saito
Moylan
EoF
Boone Logan
2 more arms that we have signed ( I really want Medlen to go back to AAA as a starter but who knows)
Bench
Ross
Infante
Thurston
Mitch Jones
Blanco/B. Jones/4th OF’er
Whew.. That took a lot out of me. Im going to go clean up now lol =^)
by drumzalicious on Dec 18, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I would love Cabrera.
But just imagine what the Tigers will ask for him. Probably one of either Hanson or Heyward as the centerpiece. Too steep for me.
doubt it
We could prob get him for a package similar to an A-Gonz one
Freeman
Medlen
Adam Milligan/Cody Johnson
Couple of minor league arms. (Delgado, Spruill maybe?)
by drumzalicious on Dec 18, 2009 10:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We won't get AGonz...
…for that kind of package.
Thinking the Braves could get A-Gonz without giving up Heyward, Hanson, or JJ is a step above rosterbation…I don’t even know what to call it.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
It's called....
… dreaming. Can’t blame a guy for that. Won’t happen, but can’t blame him.
Lunacy?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
This
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
This is just an aside....
but, Heyward for Miguel Cabrera isnt all that crazy with some salary relief from Detriot. It would be interesting to see the kind of numbers each will put up the next 5 years.I now sit and wait for all the holiday well wishers to reply…
by mikie baseball on Dec 19, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
It would be a bad bet for a mid-market team like the Braves.
We can find great players to pay market value to every so often. Holliday, for example, may not be as good as Cabrera, but he is very good, and we can get him if we offered him the equal of the remainder of Cabrera’s contract while still keeping Heyward. Heyward could be a bust, he could be average, or he could be incredible—-all while being very cheap. Teams outside of New York and Boston need to have those below value guys to complete, if everyone on the roster is being paid market value, we can’t compete against the bigger market teams because, well, they have more money. We don’t have much in the way of position players coming up behind Heyward (pretty much just Freeman) and our last crop of under valued players will be getting closer and closer to market value in the next few years as they hit arbitration and eventually free agency. If Heyward, Freeman & Schafer don’t equal one superstar between them, we’ll probably have some lean years in a few years time—-with or without Cabrera. We just can’t afford to trade away Heyward unless we are willing to sacrifice future years to win now.
Please understand....
I do not want to trade Heyward. I am also, acutely aware of the need for mid and small market teams to get undervalued players.My thought was twofold actually in making the statement. First, Heyward’s upside may in fact only be what Cabrera has or over may produce over the next six years. As far as market value, my feeling (and yes, it is not based on fact)is that 20mil per year is at market valkue. At 17-18mil he would be somewhat underpriced,, and Heyward plus 4 or 5 mil per year would mean we get Cabrera at an undervalued price. We are not on a different page, I am excited about Heyward, agree we need undervalued players, and think Cabrera is a masher. I like to think out of the box sometimes. The easy thing to do would be dump Lowe, Sign Laroche and one of those average types, and hope Chipper and everybody have real good seasons this year. For me, that is not out of the box., but status quo. We are playing defensive with a quality pitcher in Derek Lowe because of his contract.Maybe we should be playing the same type of game with teams that have market value contracts on players we need. I suggest that is where Cabrera comes in. If nothing else, it is a curious question as it pertains to Hey… is his upside as a hitter , better than Cabrera?
by mikie baseball on Dec 19, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
It is hard to say that Heyward's upside, hitting-wise, ...
…is higher than Cabrera. Cabrera can mash. I follow what you are saying. I, however, am not sure we need to think outside the box this offseason—-we were close last year, and minor tweaks plus the possibility of kids producing should be enough. If we were in worse position, I can see trying something different.
Swisher is possible in a trade and that’s a good chunk if so. But free agents could be $5-7, a piece for 1B (Glaus, Delgado, LaRoche?) and then corner OF (Derosa?), times 2 that’s $10-14m, leaving $1-5m for extensions/raises to Jurrjens, Escobar, Moylan, etc.
I doubt LaRoche or Delgado goes...
…for less than $8-10 million per year unless they get three or more years. Glaus seems reasonable at that price, however.
both per O'Brien's twitter
Braves FA 1B LaRoche said there’s been no contact from Braves he’s aware of. “Guess I should have hit .400 while I was there,” he texted.
As a reminder, LaRoche hit .325 with 12 HRs, 40 RBI and .958 OPS in 57 games for Braves after being traded from Boston.
i didnt know
we had a bunch of bitchy, whiney babies on our team.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 18, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
I guess Frank Wren is a direct man. If he wants/needs you he will call if not don’t look for the call.
by drumzalicious on Dec 18, 2009 10:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Since this is the rosterbation thread,
what does everyone think about possibly trading Lowe for Swisher, and then signing LaRoche? Then put Swisher in left field.
While not really improving our defense or speed game, that would give us some kickass power.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 11:23 PM EST reply actions
If we can fit the salary (depending on LaRoche's demands)
that works for me. Just sign a good 1B (LaRoche, Delgado or Glaus) and the OF choice is cool with me, if he sucks, Heyward can go Pujols on the NL ;)
With Nick Johnson getting $5.5 million and the fact that there are plenty of other cheap 1B options, I think LaRoche is gonna have to settle for less money than he’s asking. I’m hoping the Braves could get him for 2 yrs/$7-8 million with a 3rd year option.
Do you think the Yankees may actually trade Swisher for Lowe? It makes sense for both teams, but would the Yanks want a prospect too?
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 19, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Do you not think we'd have to include a trade kicker on a deal that long for LaRoche?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I'd rather give Glaus or Delgado...
a one year deal with an option for a second than give LaRoche 3/30.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 19, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
I hope a one year deal for Delgado or Glaus won’t cost a lot of dollars. While you can always trade Laroche when you sign him to a reasonable amount of dollars.
Maybe Wren is playing the waiting game. He might find a very good power hitter for a reasonable price. Glaus, Delgado, but also Dye or Nady. Every single one of these hitters come with some question marks.
But i still hope for a Lowe salary dump, sign Garko or Nady very cheap to play first base and get Bay or Holliday for left field. One can hope, one can dream.
by Dutch Braves Fan on Dec 20, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
I think a lot of it depends on the Lowe return...
how much salary are we taking back and what position? Get a more versatile guy like Swisher, and we’d probably target a different player or two than if we got back a strictly OF like Melky Cabrera or Juan Rivera, or if we get back a pure 1B. The return for our starting P first opens up the needed cash flow, and more importantly can change what exactly we need. We don’t need a lot of players, just one or two, and it doesn’t seem like the dominoes are falling fast on position guys like they just did with Ps.
well
the way things are going. we might be able to get Holliday or Bay at a reasonable price. The only real suitor for Bay is the Mets and for Holliday is the Cardinals. Maybe the Angels will get involved after they sort out their SP
by drumzalicious on Dec 20, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
I would be so excited if Wren can make that happen. Laroche is a legit power house. He easily slugs over 500, while playing above average first base.
Swisher is the kind of energy guy everyone loves to have on his team. He is a big time on base guy, with good power. He could play in Leftfield if Heyward starts the year in Atlanta, but if they let him get some experience in Gwinnet, Swisher will play rightfield and Diaz will be in Leftfield.
McLouth
Diaz
C.Jones
Laroche
Swisher
McCann
Escobar
Prado
by Dutch Braves Fan on Dec 20, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
pretty sure
laroche would bat 7th.
mid of order would prob be
chip
swish
mac
esco
laroche
by drumzalicious on Dec 20, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you that probably would be the line up. But i don’t think it is the right line up. I think Laroche has so much power and he brings the ball in play so many times that he is more suited for the clean up spot then Nick Swisher is.
by Dutch Braves Fan on Dec 20, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
nah
LaRoche is to inconsistent. the first half of the season he doesnt belong anywhere near the top of the lineup.
by drumzalicious on Dec 20, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
We can get rid of Lowe’s salary and get good prospects and a cheap reliever arm ( to have 7 in our bullpen ) then we have the salary to sign Delgado who should not cost much, and Marlon Byrd who can play any position in the outfield and can come cheap until Heyward is ready cause I think he is not going to be ready in the opening game… This is the lineup I want to see:
Diaz LF
McLouth CF
Chipper 3B
Delgado 1B
McCann C
Escobar SS
Marlon Byrd RF ( Until Heyward is ready )
Prado 2B
Rotation:
Hudson
Vazquez
Jurrjens
Hanson
Kawakami
BP:
Wagner
Saito
Moylan
EoF
Boone Logan
Medlen
Kimbrel ( when he is ready ) / cheap reliever for Lowe
Bench
Ross
Infante
Thurston
Mitch Jones
someone like Hinske or a AAA player
With all this we have the power bat we need in Delgado, Byrd who is an all around player, a good bench bat in Hinske and another reliever arm to complete all the bullpen
The Spanish Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Dec 19, 2009 2:25 AM EST reply actions
i dont understand ppl’s infatuation with Marlon Byrd. He hit 14 HR’s in Arlington and 6 on the road. If we needed a CF’er then i would say go sign him. But he is like Damon. He should be the last person we are looking at to fill our OF void. Actually he should be the person in front of damon.
by drumzalicious on Dec 19, 2009 3:39 AM EST up reply actions
Seriously. I was so bothered by the Bryd talk a week and a half ago I took the time to figure out his home/road splits for his Rangers career, it’s ridiculous. In three years as a Ranger his home OPS is .894, but for that same time his road OPS is .742. That’s a 152 point difference! That’s not a small number, it’s freaking huge, especially when you consider that Atlanta is not Arlington. If you sign him, you’re getting a .742 OPS player, which is fine, if he’s cheap and you don’t expect much.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
THIS...
if he’s cheap, which is doubtful, he makes sense. Whoever we sign would be nice if they were a solid defensive OF can capable of becoming a backup 4th OF ala Church that can play all 3 spots well. For this reason, I’d be fine with Melky Cabrera in return for Lowe and use him in that way—start until Heyward/Schafer is ready, after that fill in for injuries and platoon with Diaz.
Fortunately, with the Bradley deal done...
…the Cubs will likely make this mistake before Wren even has the chance.
I've said it a million times before.
NO BYRD.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 20, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
And No Derosa. These guys don’t provide a single thing more then Diaz. That is because Diaz is a good ballplayer. He hits for a high average, with some speed, and he always plays with lots of energy. Probably Derosa and Byrd will do the latter as well, but they don’t offer anything Diaz won’t except Derosa can play positions Diaz can’t.
by Dutch Braves Fan on Dec 20, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
And they've proven their ability to play well over the course of an entire season?
Diaz’ career high of 391 PAs last year would be only be the fifth-best season for DeRosa or Byrd.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
With Lowell back in Boston...
could the Braves move for him, giving up minimal prospects and having Boston pay a good chunk of his salary? If they did, he’d be a nice risk/reward option for 1st.
no thanks. I’d much rather sign Glaus or Delgado if we’re gonna throw money at someone and take a risk.
In Frank Wren I trust.
I think the idea...
…is that we wouldn’t have to throw money at Lowell. The Red Sox have pretty much shown that they’ll eat almost all of the contract.
THIS...
Boston was offering to pay I think 9 of his $12m salary. With the newly reported injury, perhaps they’ll pay even more.
They might pay $10.
That’s probably it. If they paid more, they might as well keep him.
I don't see why they weren't willing to keep him before...
with Youk and Kotchman, that should be enough for 1B. If they are worried about his health then sign Beltre and you are pretty well set with the DH to get keep them getting some at bats. Why were they so set on dumping Lowell to Texas in the first place would be my initial question. Then how much of the salary they’ll pay. They what they’d want in return.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 21, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Because they are the Red Sox...
…they can do better than the oft-injured Lowell and Kotchman as a back-up at one corner position, so they will. They have the money, Lowell is a giant question mark and Kotchman just doesn’t cut it with the bat. They want to sign Beltre to improve the defense, and it would be silly to have Lowell and Kotchman as back up 1B/3B/DH types when Ortiz is going to get most of the DH time anyway. Besides, since JD Drew is still the starting RF, they need at least two back-up outfielders. ;)
But why pay him to pay someone else?...
and I’m just opposed to essentially paying a player to play for someone else unless they ruin your clubhouse. Lowell doesn’t, so if you’re paying him, what does it hurt to have him around. If he’s healthy and can show that in say spring training, you can get a much better return for him.
Also, don’t forget Victor Martinez for them. I agree, if he can’t play 3B he’s useless for them with Youk, Ortiz, VMart, and Kotch. But while Beltre is better, why not have both and let a market for Lowell develop in the spring since you are paying him anyway. If healthy, you can get a better return. If not, DL him and try to make insurance foot the bill.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 21, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Given his history...
…I doubt they were able to get insurance on him. I guess they are figuring they get $3 million and a B-level prospect for someone who is a waste for them. The spring market idea would work except now he is having surgery and probably won’t be ready at the start of spring training. I agree that the Red Sox probably just have to keep him at this point. It does seem strange that they tried to trade him like that, but I guess if they don’t want him taking up a roster spot they would have to do that. Of course, if the only problem is his injuries, he can sit on the DL.
It hurts to have him around because you weaken that bench spot.
Unless you propose making up an injury for him and keeping him on the DL all year.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
If Boston will eat $9 million...
…and take a B-prospect in return, hell, it might not be a bad play. The problem, of course, is that we have to sign another guy who can play first, because Lowell’s health is not exactly reliable. But, if we could get a Swisher/Nady OF/1B type and Lowell, and maybe a guy who could go to the bench if Lowell is healthy, like Garko, Lowell might not be a bad bet. At $3 million, why not?
On days that im really bored, I find myself rosterbating like 6 or 7 times.
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
Call it crazy
But i think the best move to make in terms for a power bat is Prince Fielder. Now idk what his salary is or if we’d have to sign him to an extension or what not but the brewers need a pitcher aka Lowe/Vazquez, send them Freeman along with it and another prospect or pay for some of Lowe’s contract if thats what it takes? Just thinking out loud here.
You’re crazy man…I like you, but you’re crazy.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 20, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
depends on the package in return...
maybe Freeman, and some lower level arms, although I’d assume at least one current big leaguer like Medlen, Vasquez, or McLouth would be needed too.
But I said a few weeks ago, if the package was too damaging, I’d be all for bringing in Prince Fielder, and signing him to a large but front-loaded extension, using the cheap but eventually rising salaries of Escobar, Jurrjens, Hanson, McCann, and others to balance out the deal (i.e. when Fielder is highest, they’ll be cheapest, and as his salary comes down from the loaded front, it can offset the raises those other young players will be getting).
i think the possibility of them trading Fielder is slim. they are re-vamping their rotation to contend and he is basically the center of their offense along with Braun. With Cameron gone they are more likely to hold on to every piece they have.
by drumzalicious on Dec 20, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Well...
with addition one must subtract so if they want more pitching, wave goodbye to hitting. I dont recall what they dealt to get CC but im assuming it was a lot. i know we lost a lot from the tex deal but im sure we have prospects that could rebuild there system, also, its doubtful they win a championship in the next several years so im sure fielder would be willing to move. i mean if the braves want to go for the jugular, getting fielder would show the phillies who the boss of the divison is, hands down.
Addition by addition.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 21, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Given the way the Brewers evaluate talent...
….they will keep Fielder and sign a free agent pitcher or two like Pineiro or Marquis thinking that the free agent is good. Then they’ll have to trade Gamel at the deadline to get a pitcher who actually is good for a half-year rental.
The Yankees will add a starter by the new year?
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/auld_lang_sign_lnyUGytHfw1E9U0jIMUpMN
I hope that starter is Lowe and in return, we get Cabrera, Gardner, or Swisher.
MLBTR’s speculation as to the Yankees’ willingness to spend for a middle-of-the-rotation starter and possible options other than Lowe is here.
Note, however, that in a subsequent post, MLBTR reports that Nats are signing Jason Marquis.
As an alternative to Cabrera, Gardner, or Swisher, I’d almost prefer the full $45M in payroll relief and a decent A+ league prospect.
I'd like any of the 3...
Cabrera or Gardner would be cheap CF with McLouth in LF and Diaz in RF, and when Heyward/Schafer are ready could the least productive of the 3 could be 4th OF, and excess dealt off next winter. Swisher is more expensive, especially after next season, but provides much more pop, and could used in either corner OF spot until Heyward/Schafer or 1B until Freeman.
reply fail, should be above to fan dave...
and also, all those Ps have serious question marks. Harang, is $12.5m next year for crappy results, with 2011 a mutual option for $14m or a $2.5m buyout. Piniero is said to want 4 years at over $10m per. Sheets is extremely suspect on health. Meche has a limited no trade and is owed $12m this year and next year for more crappy results. Lowe is the best of the bunch, although most expensive and could also possibly give subpar results.
Lowe and Diaz to the Angels for Torii Hunter and Brandon wood
Putt Torri in the outfield and Wood can be the heir at 3B and play at 1B until then.
60% of the time, it works every time
Certainly they'd take that deal.
Yeah, right.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
I'm so depressed about Lowe not getting traded yet. Im just gonna rosterbate the night away....
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
I'll change the set up above once the details get hashed out and finalized.
should mean less money available for a free agent, but also fewer open spots with Cabrera in the OF.
Done above....
we’ve now got about $15m for the remaining roles. I’d assume 2 of the 4 remaining spots, one bench role and the reliever, are filled internally, leaving plenty of money for two more bats. Maybe Xavier Nady and Troy Glaus, or Garko and Carlos Delgado, but I’d expect a pair of power bats to take up most of the remaining $10-15+m Wren can spend.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 22, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Personally, I’d love to see a trade for a youngish, controllable slugger who could be signed to a long-term (3 -4 year) extension.
I’m not exactly advocating for Uggla, but he would be very definitely in the category that I have in mind – under or around 30, healthy, consistent, not wildly expensive.
I suspect there are other similar 30 HR per season batsmen who might be available by trade, although I don’t know realistically who they might be.
It's possible...
with the numerous young arms we’ve got, plus a major league ready piece in Cabrera or McLouth, or near ready piece in Freeman or Schafer if it brings back a player in their position, we certainly have a few more options now with the freed up salary.
Billy Butler
trade Cabrera and Freeman and more and you will have your right handed power hitter.
by Dutch Braves Fan on Dec 22, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, if you lower your standards
But I wouldn’t trade Freeman for Butler straight up, much less with another piece involved. I mean, Freeman stands a decent chance of being a better hitter than Butler in just three years, and Butler is already so poor at defense that he really needs to be a full-time DH.
We've got lots of options though...
considering the current internal options, with maybe a couple cheap signees off the scrap heap added to it in January/February, that leaves anywhere from $10-20m on 1 or more likely 2 spots (since there doesn’t seem to be one guy who can fill the void out there, so why not hedge your bets with 2). Mike Jacobs, Ryan Garko, Xavier Nady, Eric Hinske, Aubrey Huff, Carlos Delgado, Troy Glaus, Mark Derosa, Adam LaRoche, Hank Blalock, Russell Branyan are all potential 1B, with a 20+ HR season under their belt, and some pairing of two above names, if it could be brought in for the say $15m available, should help fill the need for a power bat.
Plus, we’ve got the young pitching and other pieces to possibly work in a trade for a 1B if that option presents itself
Maybe you are right about the defensive part of Butler but he is one heck of a hitter.
But considering the defense and the package we might make available in a trade. Would the Reds agree to a trade for their best hitter? Joey Votto would look good with a tomahawk. Come on it is Rosterbation and Wren promised a good bat. He represents one of the best young bats.
by Dutch Braves Fan on Dec 23, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
Votto wouldn't work...
we might have a package to give for him, but the Reds would be unlikely to give him up considering he greatly outproduces his salary and they are wanting desperately to unload big deals like Harang and their closer. I’d think the only way they consider a Votto deal is if one or two of their massive salaries go along with it.
Magglio or Miguel
who do we get from the Tigers?
Does anyone know the likely cost of Yunel and Jurrjens?...
with some pretty good numbers over the last two years, I’d assume it to be much higher than the minimum they got last year. Not 2-3m, but has to be close to, if not above $1m doesn’t it?
How about the other questionable salaries like Prado, Moylan, Chavez, O’Flaherty?
The team has the ability to renew Escobar, Prado, Jurrjens, and O’Flaherty’s contracts. I’m sure they wouldn’t be opposed to giving them 500 to 700 thousand, but it’s not going to be a million. The team isn’t going to play money they don’t have to, that’s part of the arbitration process.
As far as Moylan, I’d guess a million, million and a half.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Thanks cb, could you explain this to me then...
what was all the “super two” talk for keeping Hanson and Heyward down and avoiding arbitration. Escobar and Jurrjens have over two full seasons of service time now, so how are they not up for arbitration?
They have over 2 years but not close enough to 3 to count as Super 2. They take a percentage of guys closest to 3 years (not sure of the exact number or percentage but basically anyone with more than 4 months counts, which is why they kept Hanson in AAA until June, he couldn’t get over that 4 months) and they count them as Super 2 and eligible for arbitration.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
OK, thanks...
and I wouldn’t mind if we don’t see big bats to our liking, using some of the freed up cash to sign Escobar and Jurrjens to extensions giving them more than we otherwise would this year to lower the latter years.
I wonder if
we trade McLouth now . . .
McLouth and prospects would net us more than Melky and prospects
I still wish we would've signed Mike Cameron
McLouth/Diaz
Prado
Chipper
Glaus
BMac
Escobar
Cameron
Heyward
BEAST.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
Frank Wren probably wishes that was possible...
but a Red Sox/Phillies payroll we don’t have.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 23, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Man, I agree.
But the Sox struck while the iron was hot and we didn’t have payroll flexibility. Smart move by Epstein—-he told the more expensive option who wasn’t really much better (Bay) to take a hike and signed the smarter option. Kudos to him. Now lets see if the Sox brass has the balls to do the right thing and play Cameron in center and don’t waste his range in from of the monster.
apparently
Sox are thinking about signing Bay still. not sure where he would play though
by drumzalicious on Dec 23, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
apparently everyone is interested...
us, the Red Sox, everyone. Sounds more like agent bluster to make the Mets bid against themselves, and I hope it works.
um
last time i checked it was specifically stated that we werent interested in either bay or holliday
by drumzalicious on Dec 24, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I know people takes this the wrong way, but reading comprehension helps...
“Sounds … like agent bluster to make the Mets bid against themselves, and I hope it works.”
Meaning everyone is getting reported interest. Our name came up last week, now the Red Sox, the Mariners, the Angels, the Yankees, whether it makes sense or not, I think at least half the majors has been mentioned in one article or another with interest in Bay. That makes it seem a lot like an agent leaking names, whether realistic or not, in an effort to drum up a better offer from the Mets (or another).
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 26, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
I say Kiko Calero and Erik Hinske on one to two year deals and then one of DeRosa or Nady to finish off this roster. Having Calero, Moylan, Wagner, Saito, Medlen, O’ Flaherty, and Dunn/Kimbrel/Valdez in the pen shortens the game big time and insures that even Bobby can’t overwork everyone. Hinske gives us a good PH and a guy that can play the corners of the OF as well as 1B which given Glaus’ injury riddled 09 is not a bad thing to have. Neither of those two would come expensive and would be short term deals allowing us to grab one more bat as well. My preference would be Nady because I think he’ll come cheaper and I just think he’s the better hitter going forward but if DeRosa is willing to come cheaply back to Atlanta I’d love to have his versatility.
by McCann's the Man on Dec 23, 2009 12:21 PM EST reply actions
We don't really need to spend any more money on the pen.
Too many pressing offensive needs that can’t be fixed by what we have on hand, unlike MR.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
well we’re not spending on Bay or Holliday and the remaining FA hitters aren’t going to use up our remaining funds. I know it’s highly improbable but I don’t see why we wouldn’t have 2-2.5M to spend on Calero especially with Glaus signing for peanuts
by McCann's the Man on Dec 23, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying we CAN'T spend the money.
I’m saying there’s no point to doing it. Further, we have no idea how much Glaus signed for.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but that's the rub...
…what are the incentives. I imagine they could total to $7-8 million. Still, if Calero comes cheap enough, I love his arm in the pen. Calero and Hinske would be a great cheap way to fill out the roster. I don’t think we need Nady or DeRosa on top of that, but would go Nady for cheapness. DeRosa is just too expensive if we don’t want to play him at second. At CI or outfield he is way too expensive. He is not a significantly better than Melky.
Hinske and Nady would seem redundant...
corner OF and 1B, with no need for both on the bench. Add one of them (or Ryan Garko), to Ross and Infante, I’d assume the next two would be an IF like Conrad, Hernandez, or Thurston and an OF like Blanco or B Jones (or Heyward/Schafer). Of course, Mitch Jones might be just as capable of filling the role as Hinske, Nady, or Garko.
Nady starter in the interim, Hinske on the bench. Either could be moved once Heyward’s ready to go. One of them would be fine too but with money available I don’t see why we would settle for Blanco/B Jones if we can afford Nady on a one year deal
by McCann's the Man on Dec 23, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
I think Nady or DeRosa (certainly DeRosa) would pretty much max us out money wise, not leaving enough to add either of Calero or Hinkse.
we have about 10M after the glaus signing. DeRosa is the more expensive of the two and he’s looking at 2 years 6M per. Four million would be plenty for calero and hinske or even just one of the two
by McCann's the Man on Dec 23, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
will they budget the incentives though? or will it be viewed as if he hits the incentives then we’ll be in the playoffs or playoff picture and able to add an extra couple million?
by McCann's the Man on Dec 23, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
I think they will, corporate types are conservative.
But, we can still get Hinske and Calero at that price. I would be cool with that.
Hinske and Calero to go with what we already have would be a solid off-season imo. What we lose in the starting rotation with Javy would be more than made up for with that ridiculous bullpen and the offense would be fine with a deep bench
by McCann's the Man on Dec 24, 2009 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
Nothing yet.
Of course, the deal hasn’t been officially announced yet—-there is still the physical to be taken, which is not a formality with Glaus.
It pretty much is.
He already got checked out by a third-party doctor (the very well-respected Louis Yocum) and everything checked out. the Braves have already seen those records.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 25, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
hmm
i dont think the team takes a chance on nady playing the of coming off that surgery. I believe their plan was for him to mainly play 1B.
by drumzalicious on Dec 23, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
What about another signing?
Personally I would like us to sign a better bat than Cabrera to play LF/RF. There are a few routes we could go for LF/RF. I personally would prefer someone Left Handed to kind of balance out the lineup.
Rick Ankiel
Jonny Gomes
Scott Posednik
I personally like Ankiel. He is someone who could play all three positions. He has pretty good range and a good enough arm to play RF. He is also someone coming off of an injury and we might be able to get on a pretty cheap deal like Glaus’ (2mil and incentives). He also adds some power and just a better player than Melky who should be on the bench as our 4th OF’er.
1. McLouth CF
2. Prado 2B
3. Chip 3B
4. Glaus 1B
5. McCann C
6. Escobar SS
7. Ankiel RF
8. Diaz LF
If/When Heyward comes up we could then try this lineup out.
1. McLouth CF
2. Prado 2B
3. Chipper 3B
4. Glaus 1B
5. McCann C
6. Ankiel LF
7. Escobar SS
8. Heyward RF
What we really could use is a better Lead-Off Hitter than McLouth.
I don't think Ankiel is that cheap.
The other two you mention don’t work. Podsednik is a worse hitter than Melky and Gomes is a complete butcher in the OF.
Gomes could certainly solve our DH problem, though
I can’t remember the last time we had a solid DH.
well then
up the price. i wouldnt go beyond 4-5mil for him tho
by drumzalicious on Dec 24, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
It looks like DeRosa is going to the Giants
DAMNIT!
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
He could play RF for 2 month allowing Jason Heyward to get some ABs in AAA. It would also delay his arbitration clock.
After that, you just know Chipper, Glaus and Escobar are going to be out for periods of time (especially Chip and Glaus). He could fill in for all 3 of those guys without us losing much production in our lineup.
All of our OFs will need a day off on occasion.
Jason Heyward and Nate McLouth will also need a day off here and there against a tough lefty.
Yeah, he won’t play every day, but he’d be in there a ton. And who else is there on the market worth spending money on?
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
And who else is there on the market worth spending money on?
That’s the key point. Except, to me, that means we SHOULDN’T spend the money – because it would be a waste of money. We should save what we can to address any holes that show their ugly heads around July. Flexibility is huge.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 24, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Money wise, $6 MM is just way too much to pay a player, when you’re assuming that he’ll only start for 2 months before becoming Super Utility Guy.
He’d be the 2nd highest paid non-pitcher on our team at that price, behind only Chipper.
He also would probably rather go play somewhere that he’ll get a chance to start for the entire season.
We don't need another reliever!
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 24, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
it’s rosterbation though and you can’t honestly argue he wouldn’t be an upgrade over Valdez or whoever is the last man in the pen. I wouldn’t mind being big spenders in the draft/IFA though, think we could afford both however
by McCann's the Man on Dec 24, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
the last man will be Dunn
No way we go into the regular season and only one lefty in the pen outside of Wagner. A lot of the NL East threats are lefties and Bobby needs more than one so EoF isnt over worked.
I wouldnt be surprised if Wren traded some of our relievers that are in the AAA levels for someone on the bench. Maybe a couple of them for Uggla?
by drumzalicious on Dec 24, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think Dunn needs some more time in AAA to work on control a la Kimbrel but maybe that’s just me
by McCann's the Man on Dec 24, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
LOL.
You think we can throw a couple of replacement-level RPs for Uggla?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 25, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
hey man
you never know. some GM’s these days
by drumzalicious on Dec 25, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Dunn, Hyde, Reyes, among others...
we have options for this spot.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 26, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Why would we spend that money on a negligible upgrade, though?
For the innings that spot will throw and the importance of those innings, it’s not worth spending $2 mil that will hamper our financial flexibility for something like a midseason trade.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 25, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Midseason trade for what? Not the OF, if we got Hinske then 1B and 3B are covered unless we want to go and get Adrian from the Pads and at under 5M for the year and given our room under last year’s payroll, 2M wouldn’t affect the ability to pull off that move. Plus given Wagner and Saito’s age, back end bullpen help is what we could end up looking for
by McCann's the Man on Dec 25, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
It's crazy to speculate about what we could need midseason
Escobar could break his leg opening day and we’re in need of infield help, or we might have a plague injuries to the rotation. Anything could conceivably happen, causing voids at positions where we feel very secure.
Heck, it could even just be that someone becomes avilable and we want to make a move on him. If the Rays fall out of contention and we get a chance to add Carl Crawford without losing a top 5 prospect, that would be a clear upgrade to our outfield situation.
there’s no chance we get crawford w/o giving up a top 5 prospect but otherwise i see what you’re saying. And Infante is probably the best SS available to us should Escobar go down, it’d take a huge run of injuries for the SP to need an outside arm
by McCann's the Man on Dec 25, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think $2m on Calero is a good idea....
but I do agree with the overall idea that we don’t need to spend the remaining money (if we even have it) just to spend it. The draft, international free agents, mid season trades, or even saving/investing it to increase next year’s payroll, could all be beneficial. We’ve got the pieces for what look like a solid 25 man roster going into spring training, so Wren can be very selective with any other moves he makes over the next 2 months.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 26, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
for a minimum salary...
which Calero won’t get, but who knows what we can find like Ohman, Mahay, Calero, or whoever come late January, I’d have no problem signing a reliever, and expect at least one or two, if not more, veterans added on minimum/minor league deals between now and when Ps/Cs report.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 26, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
That was kind of my point.
I, too, have no problem with a split-contract vet who has some success in his past. But spending $2 mil on a guy who wouldn’t necessarily otherwise make the roster seems like spending money just to spending money.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 26, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
wait
dont we have someone named Omar Infante that fits that description for about half the price?
by drumzalicious on Dec 24, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
also
Where does he play next year? you know since he wanted that multi year contract?
we will have
McCann-C
1B-Freeman
2B-Prado
SS-Escobar
3B-Chip
RF-Heyward
CF-Schafer
LF-McLouth
by drumzalicious on Dec 24, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see why would need DeRosa for the outfiled.
He is not a better hitter than Melky and we already have Melky for much cheaper. He is nice depth for the infield, but that is too much money for another version of Omar Infante. (Yes, Infante’s OPS+ last year was just as good as DeRosa and Melky; 100 for Infante, 99 for the other two.)
Not true on Glaus...
he’s had one year in 11 with nagging injuries. Granted, that was 2007, but still just one in 11. For the other 10 years, he’s either in the lineup for 150 or so games, or out for a long stretch. He does not have a Chipper-like recent history of missing a week/month here and there.
As for RF, it appears we have that in Cabrera/Diaz/Heyward. If Heyward wins the job outright in spring, it’s his. If not, we can give Diaz another few months to prove himself an everyday player (he’s done well last year if you want to call that “everyday”, but the last time we went into the year with him penciled into a starting spot didn’t go as well), or Cabrera the chance to fail before Heyward and Schafer take CF and RF some time over the next 12 months.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 26, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
he’s had one year in 11 with nagging injuries. Granted, that was 2007, but still just one in 11. For the other 10 years, he’s either in the lineup for 150 or so games, or out for a long stretch.
Well, I know how the stat sheet looks, but you gotta believe me on this. Glaus consistently played through/with nagging injuries to his back, foot/arch, and of course shoulder. I don’t have the injury notes to prove it, but I had the guy on my fantasy team for years. He’d always be dealing with something. Granted, he stayed in the lineup most of the time, seemingly when others would need DL stints), but he did play banged up a lot.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
How is that different from the rest of the league?...
162 games, 6-7 a week. EVERYONE has nagging injuries, even the almighty Pujols with an elbow that has seemed in need of surgery for the last few years? The fact that he keeps playing through them is the good part, because EVERYONE gets bumps and bruises over 8 months playing baseball daily. Just curious, was Glaus the only guy on your fantasy roster with that problem, cause that sounds like 75+% of mine (if I’m lucky and they even play through the injuries like Glaus).
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 26, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
We called Glaus the Bionic Man for the way he played through injuries others did not. Pujols would also fit that description for the way he’s playing with a busted foot.
It was more than grinding it out like most MLB guys do.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
But isn't that a positive thing?
most guys are sitting, while Glaus plays (and plays pretty well). You seem to say most guys get nagging injuries, but holding it against Glaus simply because he keeps playing through them.
Again, he’s not Chipper, or Garrett Anderson; a guy who misses a week here, a month there for each season the past 5-6 years. Barring a major injury, he seems a lock for 150 games unlike those two, among others.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 26, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Add Xavier Nady to the list...
nearly a decade in the bigs, and never logging a single 150 game season. Glaus may not be the picture of perfect health, but to knock him for getting nagging injuries over a 162 game season, when outside of major health issues he’s a true every day player, is something we can just disagree on.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 26, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Where did I knock him? I was just explaining that your statement that Glaus only had 1 year in 11 with nagging injuries was inaccurate.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Fine change it to...
only had one year where nagging injuries forced him to miss games and sapped his production, the rest of the time he played and played well (which is what matters).
Ladies and gentlemen, I have a proposition:
David DeJesus.
For one, he plays for the Royals, so it should be super easy for us to pry him away, considering how much they love Braves farmhands. Secondly, he would make a good table setter in the 2 hole behind Melky. He gets on base at a decent clip, and he plays solid defense. He or Melky could serve as the stopgap solution until this Heyward guy is deemed ready.
we could bat McLouth behing Melky
Or keep prado there
by drumzalicious on Dec 25, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe rather than max out our payroll for opening day, we should leave some wiggle room for a midseason acquisition. I remember reading the Red Sox blogs last offseasson and everyone was howling about how they should be spending the money that wasn’t used in their offer to Tex. Rather than capitulate to these demands, Epstein saved that money and used it to add Victor Martinez in July.
I’m just saying….
Wren Be Praised.
WWFWD?
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Dec 25, 2009 2:54 PM EST reply actions
Wha….?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 26, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure that that comment even merited a response. There are no words for anyone who thinks Chipper can play in the OF at this point.
not just OF, but RF...
we’ve got our roster outside of the back end…
McCann
Ross
Glaus
Prado
Escobar
Jones
Diaz
McLouth
Cabrera
Infante
Jurrjens
Lowe
Hanson
Hudson
Kawakami
Saito
Wagner
Moylan
Medlen
O’Flaherty
gives you 20 of 25, including every starting spot in the field and rotation and the main men in the bullpen leaving just the 5 spots and at least 3 will be minimum salary players.
didnt you hear
Chipper will move wherever the FO needs him to play so we are gonna have him in RF
by drumzalicious on Dec 26, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
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