Thank you, Phillies.
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 11:58 PM EST
68 comments
When the Braves won 14 consecutive division titles, it seemed like we had absolutely everything. We had great players, quality baseball to watch, and of course, we could look forward to October baseball every year. Looking back, I realize now that there was one thing that we were missing - a true division rivalry.
Sure, we had the Mets, but other than the year 2000, they didn't come close to challenging us. To me, the Mets weren't so much a division rival as much as they were the Braves' little brother that we got to beat up on for fun, and of course, to pad Chipper's stats. I never remember loathing the Mets existence, high-fiving strangers when I saw they lost, or coming up with offensive nick-names for any of their players.
Anyway, the winds of change blew and our Bravos fell off the top, and ultimately out of contention. When the Braves were finally dethroned in 2006 by the Mets (thanks Jorge Sosa), a year later in 2007, a division rivalry slowly started to form - between the Braves and the Phillies.
The Phillies have been on top for the past 3 years. Although the Mets dethroned us, the Phillies are the ones who ultimately have taken our spot. And as a Braves fan, that infuriates me. That makes me want to beat Philadelphia at all costs. When I see Philly fans, I get angry, when the Braves lose to the Phils, I get frustrated, when the Braves have an upcoming series against them, I get excited. And during the '09 season, these feelings intensified tenfold, because the Braves were back in contention. I think that now, us Braves fans finally have a division rivalry on our hand, sure only to escalate with the 2010 season.
And you know what? I'm glad most of their fans are loud and beligerent and throw snowballs at Santa. All the better. I want to see emotions running high when the Braves face the Phillies. I want there to be verbal arguments at games between fans, and I want Braves fans to loathe Phillies fans and vice versa. I want the Braves-Phils rivalry to rival that of the Yankees and BoSox. And maybe, just maybe, a strong rivalry could put people in the seats when the Phillies come to town.
So thanks, Phillies. Now go and make some more questionable blockbuster trades so we can beat your sorry asses next year.
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Fans at Turner Field?
MADNESS!
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 18, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, what you say is true. I can remember all too well seeing empty seats during post-season play.
On the bright side, my wife just started at CNN, so I’m seeing many more Braves games in my future. It’ll be good that I’ll see Halladay more often, but sucks that he’s in a Phillie’s uni.
by Sparhawk on Dec 18, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the way...
you equate the Mets to the little brother you liked to beat. Being a New Yorker and watching them many times over the years, that is exactly what they have been for the Braves. They really never had a good team, or organization or Manager in my view, except for a few seasons back , and have been on the downs since. The Phils, however, are a well built and sound baseball team,and worthy opponent. I really cant see the rivlary building the way you describe primarily because of the lack of baseball crazy fans in Atlanta and the number of empty seats at Turner Field at critical games.
by mikie baseball on Dec 18, 2009 9:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Atlanta is a largely African American city, I hate to play the race card here but if Heyward comes in and is huge, I see a notable rise in attendance.
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 18, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t even want to go down that road…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I will agree with the overall idea that..
Heyward coming in like Andruw or Griffey Jr (meaning decent rookie season followed by a decade of excellence), and attendance numbers will likely be signficantly higher in the Tens/Teens than the Aughts.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 18, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Why do you think Michael Vick(who was barely average) was so popular in Atlanta?
by GouldisGold on Dec 18, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Vick played football, but I agree Heyward would draw more fans.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Vick was anything but a barely average football player.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know.
You look at his stats, and you wonder why he is talked about so much.
by GouldisGold on Dec 18, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was disagreeing with you. Michael Vick is an amazing football player.
He isn’t a great QB, but he is an amazing football player.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He would make a great running back, yes. But he’s just a bad QB.
by GouldisGold on Dec 18, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He sucked at passing, but he seemed to find a way to win. I don’t think he was bad, just…unconventional?
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In his defense, he did have some pretty crappy receivers out there.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True, it’s not Vick’s fault that Roddie White thought the football was a hot potato
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing against Roddy White, but when he is your team’s best reciever (even this year) you are in trouble.
I saw Jenkins drop more passes than he caught. I also noticed that in every close game in the 4th quarter on perhaps their final drive, Matt Ryan threw to Gonzales EVERY time….when your TE is your go to guy, you are not in a good position.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Phillip Rivers, Trent Green, and Tony Romo disagree.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Phillip Rivers has Vincent Jackson, Romo has Miles. Green’s team sucks which kinda proves my point.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 20, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Chiefs used to be really, really good.
And Jackson and Austin were both not good until this year. The TEs are still the go-to guys on those teams.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The chief’s were good when they had a legit running game – which was the go-to option.
Vincent Jackson has always been legit, but now that Chambers is out he has become the man. The Chargers also have that one guy…what’s his name…something Tomlinson?
Miles Austin wasn’t good last year, but Dallas also had that T.O. guy, that Crayton guy and that Williams guy.
The TEs are not the main go-to options on any of those teams.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 20, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In his offense...
He couldn’t throw an accurate pass more than eight yards downfield. Why do you think Crumpler put up such great numbers?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because the other recievers dropped so many that Algea became the go to guy.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 20, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
...because Vick could actually throw him a good pass.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, he was a great QB...
he took snaps, and won. He wasn’t a “passing” or “conventional” QB, but he played quarterback, and he played it well enough to win when healthy.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 18, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Take a read of my Philly Cheese(MI)Steak story. It’s all the same concept.
by JKowalek on Dec 18, 2009 9:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree, and it’s the reason I got pissed off when people were cheering for the Phillies in the World Series. I don’t care who it’s against, Yankees or Red Sox, I want the Phillies to lose. That’s what a rivalry’s about. It’s not about, oh they’re in the NL so I’ll cheer for them! That’s crap. You’d never see a Red Sox fan cheer on the Yankees in the WS because they’re in the AL.
by BigG1392 on Dec 18, 2009 10:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree. That was the only time in recent years I cheered on the Yankees. I didn’t want the Phillies to win back-to-back, since the Bravos have never done that!
-Yellow Jackets, Braves, Falcons, Hawks, and Thrashers fan!
by ChrisK562 on Dec 18, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but still
Better the Phils than Yankees win anyday!
by Bmacbandwagon on Dec 18, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen to that.....
The Yanks win because of payroll, period.Had the Phils kept Lee after acquiring Halladay, they would have still had a lower payroll than the Yankees.And that staff…..
by mikie baseball on Dec 18, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
HAHAHAHAHA!
The Phillies just made a big mistake:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4753045
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 1:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Halladay trade was an epic fail.
They pretty much just gave up several top prospects in order to let one ace leave, and another come in. Greedy.
by GouldisGold on Dec 18, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically, they had an opportunity to get the best pitcher in baseball," Lee said, realizing the Phillies moved him because they wanted to seize a chance to restock their minor league system. “I can’t blame them for choosing Roy Halladay over me.”
Swing and a miss. They may have gotten prospects back for him, but the three they got aren’t anywhere close to being on the level of the three they gave up. Sorry, Cliffy, but they striaght-up dumped your ass for Doc.
by J-Freak on Dec 18, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol…good catch!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't compare the 3 for Halladay vs. the 3 for Lee...
compare what went to Cleveland with what came from Seattle.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 18, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to go that way with it...
There is no Lee-to-M’s without Halladay coming in, so you have to consider everything. Therefore, their net loss:
The Lee Prospects: Jason Knapp, maybe their best pitching prospect other than Drabek, Carlos Carrasco, a decent-but-not-stellar pitching prospect, Jason Donald, a highly touted infield prospect who is supposed to be major league ready in 2010, and Lou Marson, who is another year away but is potentially an offensive catcher.
The Halladay Prospects: Kyle Drabek, their best pitching prospect, and maybe their best prospect period, catcher Travis d’Arnaud, and highly touted OF prospect Michael Taylor.
They lost two of their best pitching prospects, their top OF prospect, top catching prospect, their best infield prospect, and a couple of less-important-but-still-intriguing players, a pitcher and a catcher.
Their net gain: Halladay, Phillipe Aumont, a somewhat washed-up pitching prospect whose value is not nearly what it was a year or two ago and who will probably not start in the bigs, OF Tyson Gillies, an A-Ball prospect who may or may not eventually be good enough to replace Michael Taylor, but even if he is it will be years from now, and pitcher Juan Ramirez, whose stats are thoroughly underwhelming and doesn’t look like much of a grab.
Err…. no, sorry, the Phils still lose. Hard. At the end of the day, they traded 7 prospects, 5 of them among their best, for Halladay, a couple decent prospects, and an organizational filler. That’s a massive, MASSIVE overpay to get any one major leaguer, even Doc (with the possible exception of Mr. Albert Pujols). And they didn’t restock the farm as much as they refilled empty roster spots with warm bodies. Not the same thing.
by J-Freak on Dec 18, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, all 7 of the guys they gave up were in their top ten, according to Baseball America. They didn’t recoup anything close to that.
by J-Freak on Dec 18, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d be a lot more scared of Halladay-Lee-Hamels than I am of Halladay-Hamels-…Happ?
by bigjoe on Dec 19, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Their accounting team would too, one imagines.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since opening the new park, that team is swimming in revenue.
by bigjoe on Dec 21, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, just try a salary dump of Blanton...
and the salary is a wash.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 21, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, everyone gets excited to take down the top team and gets excited to play them.
But it’s hard to call us “a true division rivalry” when we fail to finish above 3rd place year-after-year, and offer them no challenge for the division crown.
by Lennox on Dec 18, 2009 2:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If Wren doesn’t keep frustrating me puts together the team that we can be, in 2010 I think it will turn into a true division rivalry because we will be giving the Phils a run for their money.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not this year.
The Phillies will be good. Too good. But just wait until about 2011 or 2012. Most of their stars are already in their 30’s.
by GouldisGold on Dec 18, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where's the optimism?
After we made a few changes (McLouth, Hanson, FYF, LaRoche), the Braves were just as good as the Phillies. I don’t see why with a similar team we wouldn’t compete with them. Between July 1st to the end of the season, the Braves went 50-36, and that includes our pitiful end-of-season series against the Nats.
If we keep up that kind of winning, we are right there with the Phillies record-wise.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
But their offense is head and shoulders above ours. Their pitching staff might not be as good as ours, but it’s still solid. They will probably edge us by about 3-4 games. But like I said, most of their stars are in their 30’s, so there is plenty of hope for the future.
by GouldisGold on Dec 18, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Their offense is sick-gross-butt-nasty
I agree they are the better team, but anything can happen. Hey, we can always hope for an injury to Howard or Halladay, right?
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I would ever wish injury on any player (except maybe A-Rod), a season-ending injury to Halladay would be absolutely hilarious…especially if Cliff Lee wins the Cy Young again.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
that would be infinitely worse than the Tex trade. Who becomes their ace after Halladay, Hamels? haha
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But their offense is head and shoulders above ours. Their pitching staffmightis notbeas good as ours,but it’s still solid.
Halladay – no debate, great pitcher
Hamels – Will the real Cole Hamels please stand up?
Haap – Good rookie year, outpitched his “potential.” Can he do it again?
Blanton – Seriously?
Pedro – Pitched well for a 50 year old has been. Let’s see him do that for 30 games a year…
I see 1 reliable name on that list, 1 huge questionmark, 1 2nd year player, 1 overachiever and one geezer. There is no question that our SP is better than theirs, and their rotation as a whole should not make too many batters feel inferior this coming season.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone didn’t look at Hamels’s FIP last year.
by bigjoe on Dec 19, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s my thing about that – FIP takes fielding out of the equation. I get that. But, when the fielding is the same for all of the pitchers on a staff (a common base-line) wouldn’t it lose it’s punch? I get that FIP would matter if someone were comparing Javy Vazquez to Tim Lincecum, but when someone shares the common denominator of the same fielders, wouldn’t ERA carry more weight in that circumstance?
How did Hamels do compared to his fellow Philly hurlers?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 19, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Him & Lee had FIP’s lower than their ERA, while the inferior pitchers had FIPs higher than their ERA. The fallacy with your argument is that you’re assuming that defense is constant, when in reality, its static. For example, Pedro Martinez was an extreme flyball pitcher last year, while Hamels was around even. If you’ve got a better outfield than infield behind you, they’ll make more plays.
Its hard to explain where I’m coming from on this one.
by bigjoe on Dec 20, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes sense too. I get where you are coming from. Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 20, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that can be a part...
there is also the thought that some guys are just easier to field for. The pitchers who tend to work faster instead of taking 45-60 seconds between pitches seem this way, among others. Some of it is luck on where the ball bounces, but I refuse to believe that pitchers can’t impact the ability to field behind them.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 20, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bump you, Phillies.
The first club that I remember hating when I was a kid, even before the Yankees, was the Phuckers. For me, they have always been the Braves’ nemesis.
Maybe Mets fans should try and stir up some kind of bitter rivalry with the Fish. They should make it their goal to play more like Marlins. The Mutts couldn’t sweep the Braves (or even Phillie) even if they tried reeeal hard. mwa-Hahaha.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 18, 2009 3:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
NL East Division rivalries:
Phillies/Braves
Mets/Marlins
Nationals/lack of ability
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you should switch the Mets and the Natinals there.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's more like:
Mets/white players
by GouldisGold on Dec 18, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahah…even futher – Mets/non-hispanic players.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My bad
Mets/Omar Minaya
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 18, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FTW!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
PHUCK THA FILLIES
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Dec 18, 2009 4:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pic fail.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hey…that wasn’t there earlier!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thumbs up….let’s do this!
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 18, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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