Chipper Jones - 7th best player of the decade
I was actually very pleasantly surprised by this. The only reason I checked was to see how badly Chipper was slighted, but he is far above some very good players.I may have put Manny and possibly Randy Johnson higher, but 7 is a nice spot for him.
What are your thoughts?
Also, Andruw was ranked #20. Would have easily been in top 10 if he didn't fall off a cliff. What a shame.
about 2 years ago
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Did Smoltz not being on the list surprise anyone else?
or did I just miss him. I’m pretty sure I didn’t.
This.
That’s the first name I looked for after Chipper. I guess he’s out back with Dale Murphy, not getting any respect.
I’m the player to be named later.
Decade?
Well it would help if we waited one more year since the decade ain’t over people. I thought we had this argument already in 2000 with the millennium argument which also included a small “new decade” argument. There wasn’t a year 0, so the first decade include 1-10 (assuming we all agree that a decade means 10 years and includes every 10 years since year 1), thus this decade includes 2001-2010.
Anyway… Kudos to Chipper and apparently Neyer doesn’t care about the steroid argument. Obviously just one man’s opinion. Maybe we need two lists: one for steroids and one without. ;-)
-----
Braves Fan Since 1982. Go Braves!
"All opinions welcome..."
You people and your technicalities...
we’re simple creatures. 90s go from 1990-1999. The Aught’s go from 2000-2009. While the first year wasn’t year 0, a “decade” is just technically a 10 year period. From 2000-20009 encompasses 10 seasons/years, and is a decade. You can have a team of the decade from 1996-2005, and it works. 10 years is 10 years, no matter when you start counting.
Does anyone have a link to the SI article
about Chipper? Im pretty sure Posnaski wrote it. One of the best sports articles I’ve ever read.
In Frank Wren I trust.
I'm sure if you type in on google
“Chipper Jones and the underestimated brilliance of the Braves” it’ll come up
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
*understated, I think, not underestimated
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Did Andruw fall off a cliff
or was he pushed by a conspiracy hatched between those strippers he was doing in the back of Cheetah and the Little Debbie Corporation? Those evil bastards!
Did he make a squishy sound like a giant dog toy when he landed?
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 12:49 AM EST reply actions
I'm glad Chipper is #7, but the list blows
Carlos freaking Beltran at #6? That is terrible. Absolutely terrible. The dude has a hot streak in one postseason and he’s overrated for the rest of his career.
And, you gotta love how he mentions that apparently Jeter’s “intangibles” go unnoticed. Every day I hear about them.
But honestly Beltran???
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:25 AM EST reply actions
The only thing about Jeter that goes unnoticed is his terrible defense.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Gold Glove disagrees!
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
grrrrr
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
actually...
jeter was quite good with the glove this year…ofc, that’s pretty much an aberration compared to the rest of his career
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
According to Fangraphs...
…going from 2002 to this past season Beltran posted WARs of 5.6, 6.3, 6.5, 1.9, 7.0, 4.9, 6.7, and 2.9. I’m willing to bet his 2001 season would be pretty high up there based on his .383 wOBA. Hard to call the guy overrated with numbers like that.
If I had the time I would go through everyone’s WARs for the decade, because that’d be an interesting list.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
I looked at this earlier
Since FanGraphs only has WAR data going back to 2002, it’s incomplete, but here’s how the top 20ish fall.
1) Albert Pujols 63.5 WAR
2) Alex Rodriguez 59.6 WAR
3) Roy Halladay 49.6 WAR (huge surprise this high)
4) Barry Bonds 44.5 WAR
5) Lance Berkman 42.8 WAR
6) Johan Santana 42.4 WAR
7) Chipper Jones 41.3 WAR (Hey look, he came out seventh after all!)
8) CC Sabathia 41.1 WAR
9) Derek Jeter 40.3 WAR
10) Chase Utley 39.7 WAR
11) Scott Rolen 39.6 WAR
12) Roy Oswalt 38.7 WAR
13) Ichiro Suzuki 38.6 WAR
14) Andruw Jones, 38.2 WAR
15) Javier Vazquez 37.6 WAR
16) Todd Helton 37.2 WAR
17) Manny Ramirez 36.8 WAR
18) Jorge Posada 36.6 WAR
19) Randy Johnson 35.4 WAR
20) Mark Buehrle 33.8 WAR
Andruw probably jumps several of spots if we go back to 2000, giving him two more prime fielding years, during one of which he posted a .390 wOBA. He might even scoot all the way up into the top ten, depending on UZR data for him and Rolen. The sudden, drastic decline probably cost him the Hall, same as it did Murph, unless he rebounds-he’s still got time.
If we go back that far, Barry is probably on top of the list because he posted a .539 wOBA in 2001 and still crazy .458 wOBA the year before.. Chipper probably jumps Santana into 6th, since Santana didn’t really start pitching until 2002.
by Bronn on Dec 17, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i know berkman is good
but him being in the top-5 is probably the biggest surprise to me
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
The guy is a monster.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd.
Well played, beat me to it. Very interesting list, were these the only players who’s numbers you crunched? I’m surprised Halladay is that high as well, knew he was great but wow.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Halladay surprised me too
My first thought was “Well, he’s throwing complete games all the time-so he’s probably got more innings than anyone.” But no, he’s about the same as Sabathia, and fewer innings than Vazquez and Buehrle. He’s just that good. He’s a victim of playing north of the border-we knew he was good, and we still don’t give him enough credit.
Fangraphs lets you view career leaders in everything, and since I know that WAR data only goes back to 2002, it was relevant for a discussion of best decade players. Interestingly, the default “Minimum innings pitched” value is 1000, so I was scratching my head at not seeing John Smoltz. He comes in as the 21st most valuable pitcher, but he’s at exactly 999.2 innings since 2002 and therefore was right below the cut-off.
Good stuff man, thanks.
So the site has an ability to sort their various statistical categories for more than 3 years? I was tinkering with it the other day, but couldn’t get it to go more than 3 years.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 18, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
In the top tabs
Go to “Leaders” and you get dropdowns “Major League” “Minor League” and “Career.” Under career, you can sort by value.
Thank you sir.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 18, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I stand quite corrected. Ok, I’m just bitter because he single-handedly beat us that postseason.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
No, you’re not wrong. As far as what Bronn posted above he doesn’t sniff the top 20, but I was just saying the guy isn’t all that overrated.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 18, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, Carp!
There’s something fishy.
Beltran was erroneous oversight-he’s at 41.8 WAR since 2002, putting him at #7 ahead of Chipper. This is the result of what happens when copying lines without being able to “copy+paste”
Yeah, Beltran is pretty darn good.
Haha
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 18, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
My thoughts exactly!
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
i almost fanshotted this list yesterday
it’s a joke..there are so many players out of place…and i hate to say it, but i have a hard time putting chip at number 7
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
But not Jeter at #4?
Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.
by TradeAndruw on Dec 17, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
there are so many players out of place
had to quote myself here…
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
Agreed
It’s not surprising that Ichiro is overrated, but 5th best player in the decade? Really? The only advantage he has over Chipper during that time period of BA. Chipper with a HUGE advantage in both OBP and SLG. Maybe the extra 1400 PAs add something, other than slimly give him an edge over Chipper in 2B/3B.
And John Smoltz didn’t make the top 100. Not even the top 100. Crazy. Eric Freakin’ Chavez comes in at #39 but John Smoltz isn’t on the list.
Jeter at #4 is not nearly the worst mistake on this list.
Of course
This thing made me look at some numbers, enough to make me realize that Halladay is extremely, extremely underrated.
That’s what playing in Toronto does, I guess
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Smoltz
How he left #29 offf the list and put fools like Kelvim Escobar on there negates his placement of Chip. And I’ve always thought Chipper got a bad rap at 3B. Only Rolen makes that off balance barehanded pickup & throw to first better than Chip.
Because he claims a holier-than-thou attitude?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
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