Braves non-tender Kelly Johnson
by gondeee on Dec 12, 2009 2:55 PM EST
538 comments
In an unfortunate move, the Atlanta Braves were unable to find a trade partner to take second baseman Kelly Johnson. Because Johnson would have made too much money through arbitration, the Braves decided to non-tender him a contract, making him a free agent.
Back at the beginning of the off-season, in early October, I called this move of non-tendering Johnson. Back then I said it was reminiscent of the situation the team faced with Marcus Giles a few years ago. The club simply does not value the player as much as he would be making through salary arbitration.
Still, it's a shame we couldn't get something for Johnson. I guess the Braves are a bit gun-shy after the Soriano Surprise of getting stuck with contracts they don't want. I wonder if they were able to trade Derek Lowe before this decision (thusly freeing up payroll), if they would have made a different decision on Johnson. I guess we'll never know.
We'll miss you Scooter.
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We will miss ya, Kelly… standing O for the effort.
by carpengui on Dec 12, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s one of the best streaky players we’ve ever had.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
+1 perhaps the best we ever had
braves#1
by rockybull on Dec 12, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He may be one of the best...
…streaky players we ever had, but he certainly isn’t the best streaky player we ever had. Andruw, take a bow.
by cavebird on Dec 12, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know that he was “streaky.” I’d say he was a great player and then took a turn for the worse. But I felt like he was fairly consistent up until his downfall.
by Gage23 on Dec 12, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a great player?
No way. Albert Pujols is a great player. Alex Rodriguez is a great player. Hank Aaron was a great player. Kelly Johnson is not even close.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he is referring to Andruw
by blitzerlover on Dec 12, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was streaky as hell.
Remember he started his best season on a 0-26 or 0-28 slump. I am not talking about his current decline, I am talking about when he was good. He was always crazy streaky—-one week, he couldn’t hit a beach ball and wiffed all week. The next week he bats .500 and is crushing everything. He was the ultimate streaky player.
by cavebird on Dec 12, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
THIS REALLY SUCKS.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Dec 12, 2009 2:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Long live Martin Prado!
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
When Prado’s July-Sept become the norm, I’d better not hear you complain once.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
When Prado tears it up in 2010
I’d better not hear you bitch about how KJ is better.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. I think we don’t have to worry about it though.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Asshole?
How am I an asshole? Because I like Prado? Ha. Sorry your boy KJ is gone. Don’t get all pissy at me for prefering Marteeen to KJ.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry, that was uncalled for. Saying “Long live Martin Prado!” when someone on your team is released seems a little bit low, no matter who it is. But I’m pretty sure you didn’t mean it like that, so I’m sorry.
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, in all fairness, I hope Prado lives a long time too. I just wish we had KJ at 2B instead – life expectancy aside.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya
I don’t dislike KJ at all. I wish him the best. Prado is just one of my favorite players and has been since 2007 or so
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 4:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly understandable
KJ is one of mine, so I’m shedding some tears
by eaheckman10 on Dec 12, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly was my favorite beginning with his 0 for 27 streak, I think at first because I thought that a guy having the name Kelly was kinda cool. It just kinda sucks that he had to go this way. This is like a eulogy haha. I’ll be pulling for both of them now, like I have been. And Mr Wren, know that I hold nothing against you.
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bye Bye KJ, go mess up another teams bench.
KJ sucks and Prado at-least can contribute on a regular basis; KJ is going to end up with a team for sure but his lack luster play is their problem.
Non-tendering him is a great move by Wren and I could not be any happier and really I wish we could have found a trade partner and got something for him but the ATL Braves where afraid of Johnson’s salary through arb salary and nobody was going to trade anything of value for him b/c now they can have him for next to nothing.
The Cards I think may pick him up as a Derosa replacement as stated on here a few days ago.
To all the fans that backed him hmm; You where all wrong Kelly is garbage and that is why he is gone he is simply not worth anything over $1mil.
Go Braves.
Go Braves.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 12, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One of life’s great questions.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Dec 12, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Should have had a troll tag attached...
…after he commented that Mike Cameron was the same as Garrett Anderson.
by cavebird on Dec 12, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You seem knowledgeable. Care to share your wisdom?
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is he gone? Because most other teams know that they can have him for free instead of trading for him.
You are an idiot.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He's not necessarily gone.
The problem was that he (in the eyes of the Braves and apparently potential trade partners) wasn’t worth the salary he would get in arbitration. Now he is a free agent—-Wren has said we would be interested in him for a lesser cost, but it seems likely he will sign where he can get more AB’s.
FWIW, I am ambivalent about this move. I like his bat and last year he was injured. However, he was a butcher at second and his bat as an outfielder wasn’t so great. Was he worth the $3.5-$4 million he would have gotten in arbitration? I don’t know. Close call.
by cavebird on Dec 12, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A butcher at second?
Nah. He made a few bad errors (mostly early), but he’s got good range, and he’s certainly been better there than Prado over the course of his career. That guy plays a bad second.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're telling me
We couldn’t get anything for KJ? Nothing at all? Hmmm…
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
not if anyone realized we were going to do this...
by Zeus12888 on Dec 12, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I guess so.
Oh well. That’s another $6MM off the books from KJ and Churh. If we can deal DLowe, we’ll have some serious cash money.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
We’re not gaining money by non tendering them. They weren’t signed for next season, we just don’t have to pay them.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but weren’t their contracts figured into next years payroll? Or not?
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
They probably planned for them being with the team but I would guess that Wren made up his mind that neither were going to be back at the end of the season. Some of the money that was set aside for them probably went into signing Wagner and Saito.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure how that works. Wagner and Saito are essentially making what Soriano and Gonzalez did this year. So yes, this can be considered a gain in salary, because no one has been added yet that accounts for the 6 million or so that they paid Church (but really Francoeur for the first half) and Johnson.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we have about $5-7M to spend. Do you think that’s about right.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can take the relievers as a wash, take out Anderson and Norton’s contracts, which is what, 3.5 million together?, take out Johnson and Church, say 6 million, take out LaRoche, which probably really amounted to something like 4.5 million between him and Kotchman for the year. So right there that’s taking about 14 million off the roster. I’m not sure who all’s getting a raise, it seems like you’re more up on it than me, but I know Moylan and Logan are getting raises, I’d assume McCann and McLouth are getting a little more, and I’m sure there are a few other guys, so yeah, probably something like that.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if i remember you dont combine Laroche and Kotchman (the Red Sox threw in money so that our payroll didnt increase by adding LaRoche).
so Kothcman made less than 3 last year (if i remember correctly)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, that sound right. I’m not a money expert, that was just off the top of my head. Sounds like that makes it a lot closer to what jack dein had.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzo and Soriano’s contracts in 2009 were almost identical to Wagner and Saito for 2010. I have the total committed payroll for 2010 about 4-5 mill below 2009 levels… and that’s before incentives (Wagner has about 1.5mill possible, IIRC).
And to answer an earlier question, I found 2 sources suggesting that the 2010 payroll will remain near the 2009 levels.
by carpengui on Dec 12, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, Schultz, one of the AJC sports commentators, said the same thing in a column today, but did not indicate, of course, where he got the word. So, to me, its just a guess.
by fandave on Dec 12, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes we are...
He was part of $95-96m of payments last year. Now he won’t be. My projections are now that we’re currently down about $4-5m from last year’s players.
by carpengui on Dec 12, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He also wasn’t signed for this year. Of coarse he was in the payments last year he was on the team. I figure right now the Braves have roughly $88M committed including Lowe’s $15M.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We’re in the same neighborhood – I’m figuring in a few bench players and AAA guys, so I have it at about 90-91.
by carpengui on Dec 12, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We have a little to spend but not much. It depends to on who we bring back for Lowe and how much of his deal we have to eat.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I cant help but wonder
what tricks Wren has up his sleeves with all this freed up money and Liberty increasing payrolll…..hmmm
by Zeus12888 on Dec 12, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Got a quality link for the “Liberty increasing payroll” mention?
by fandave on Dec 12, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Albert Pujols! I’m on the bandwagon and I’m not getting off!
:)
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
We won’t have a chance at Pujols till he’s 45 and can only hit the ball 200 feet.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s still better than Greg Norton.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Only because Pujols at least will make contact.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We won’t have a chance at Pujols till he’s45dead and can only hit the ball 200 feet.
Fixed.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Dec 14, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No plenty of teams offered really good players
But FW just said “Eff it”
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
…and how exactly do you know this? Aside from baseless speculation?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ur sarcasm goggles were clearly off on this one CB
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe. I’ve never seen this guy’s name before. I figured he was so distraught by the news he joined the site to vent about it.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
negative, it was sarcasm
I am firmly in the “I have faith in Mr. Wren” camp
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah. Good deal. Big internet bear hug to you then.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 8:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, and you call me an asshole. Riiiight.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
$5 bucks he does.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOO KELLYYYY DON'T GOOOO
Crying Hysterically
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Dec 12, 2009 3:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
me too
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Dec 12, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t see the big deal. It was clear he wasn’t going to play anyway so why pay a guy $4M to sit on the bench.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
T
th
thi
this!
Long live Martin Prado!
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
your new sig should now be “Long live martin Prado!”
braves#1
by rockybull on Dec 12, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prado is better and cheaper
Long Live Martin Prado should be a fanpost on here everyday until all of the KJ stuff is over and done with. Me & mvhsbball among others agree and for some reason all of you KJ supporters want to pay a guy what $4 million to be a bench player and spot starter ? We already have a spot starter in Infante for the IF and some OF work as well. Prado is going to be the 2b and Cox said that at the end of the season.
Prado rules and KJ is and was always garbage, good bye now post alot of things here how KJ was great, use some very common cuss words and language to make yourselves feel bigger and better and go on with you pathetic lives. I just think it is so funny that their are some many posts on this with all the stuff going on in the world let alone MLB.
Go Braves. Long Live Martin Prado.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 12, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said KJ was garbage, for the record. And I really wish we could be like the Skankees and have unlimited resources so we could keep KJ around for 2010.
However, money is tight and we still have a big hole at 1B and possibly a corner OF spot to fill. It’s hard for me to justify paying a guy $4-5MM when we already have a guy, Prado, who’s totally capable of playing the position well.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
" I just think it is so funny that their are some many posts on this with all the stuff going on in the world let alone MLB."
You do realize that you are posting on this you raving idiot?
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol. Also no not $4 million to be a bench player. $4 million to be a starter.
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to say this exact thing, but you beat me to it!
FWIW, I don’t want to pay him $4M…I was thinking more like $3.2M or so.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Starter on the Nats maybe…
braves#1
by rockybull on Dec 13, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
leaving everyone’s “pathetic lives” out of the discussion would be nice, especially since you have no idea whatsover about any of these fine people. unless, of course, you actually want to be hated.
by fandave on Dec 13, 2009 8:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's certainly never cared.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
long live poor grammar!
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Dec 13, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 13, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Johnson was definitely always garbage.
You can tell the way he OPSed 795+ two years in a row over 1000 ABs and played solid MI defense after learning the position after he got to the majors. Nobody in their right mind would want a player like that.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But he wouldn’t sit on the bench because he’s better than Prado
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet somehow he did…even though Prado was there…hmmm…
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how that works..
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Church and Matt Diaz sat on the bench behind Garret Anderson too….so, that pretty much shuts that argument down.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really, cause Prado actually played better than Kelly.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Diaz and Church played better than Anderson…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Church was always hurt and Diaz started basically every game in RF once FYF was traded
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
The point is that they actually got it right with 2B, the better player, the guy who was performing better, actually played. Just because the OF was wonky doesn’t mean the correct decision wasn’t made at 2B.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It also doesn't mean it was.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wren is trying to put together a championship team.
KJ is a quality player, albeit streaky, but just didn’t fit to the master plan at the projected cost.
Too bad a trading partner couldn’t be located.
Hopefully, KJ can go somewhere and actually play up his potential, and then have a long, solid career.
by fandave on Dec 12, 2009 3:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Because he is scared that KJ is actually better than Mr July.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Think of it this way...
even if KJ of old is better than Prado theres no way in hell he’s 10 times better, which is what we would have been paying him after his arb. hearing.
No bones about it, Prado @ approx. $400K a year > KJ @ $4 mil a year, and theres no way you can argue that.
by cirela20 on Dec 12, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s why you lock one of them up, or else, we are going to be DFA’ing Prado in a couple of years because we have some other guy who we only have to pay $400K to.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that makes no sense whatsever… if we have aguy in 4-5 years who can do Kj or Prado’s job for 400k then we dont need to lock anyone up now, bc we have cheap talent on the way in unnammed player X and cheap talent in Prado.
u need to leave thsi thread ur too emotionally invested.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But when there is evidence that one player has a much higher ceiling and may just be flat out better, but you go with the cheaper option in a cost-saving move (and it is really only a small percentage of the total team budget that we are talking about), thus weakening your depth and getting even weaker in a place where we are VERY thin (the infield) it seems to be a bad business model.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he's been declining for 3 straight years...
and wasn’t hitting that well before his injury, while Prado on the other hand has improved during every extent of his playing time, save for his last injured stint as well (thats right Prado was also injured last season and for whatever magical reason managed to OPS over .700)
KJ does not show any of the promise you claim he does, and it’s questionable that he’ll even reach the promise that reasonable people project for him (a max 20 HR – 20 SB #6-7 hitter, with average defense at either 2nd or LF who strikes out 100 times a season.
by cirela20 on Dec 13, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, he has cut down on his strikeouts, is walking more and showing better plate discipline, but he is declining?
Hmmm…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on:
07: .276/.375/.457/.831
08: .287/.349/.446/.795
09: .224/.303/.389/.692
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
his BABiP fell precipitously in 09, i really dont think we should use that year and put a ton of emphasis on its nrbs (whihc i realize isnt statistically appropriate)….
however, i agree Justin has made his conclusion and will not see the reality that is KJ
tht said, lets not pretend Prado is the answer to our offensive woes…KJ and Prado are essentially equals. Prado is a better hitter, KJ has better plate discipline. Prado may be better defensively and is definately more versatile, KJ has more power.
Neither is incredibly great, both are above avg.
The reason they cant keep KJ is he costs 4M (most liekly)…and Justin stop acting like 4M isnt a big deal , cause it is… its not 4M out of 100M, its 4 out of w/e our budget is this year… Prado can play 2B, he may not hit as well as KJ, or he might hit better. but he saves us money that can be better used elsewhere.
The only way we lose here is if Prado bottom out and goes back to his minor league nbrs (OPS around 700, but he has shown two years in a row he isnt that player anymore) AND KJ rebounds back to 07 form, with improved defense and we could have signed him for 2-3M (which i dont think is possible)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a KJ fan. I’ll miss him on our team if we can’t sign him for less. But this is the most reasonable argument I’ve seen in this thread so far.
by Gage23 on Dec 13, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry i didnt intend to be reasonable…thats not allowed in this thread
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prado's DEFINITELY not better defensively.
Have you ever watched these guys play?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that said...
07 and 08 isn’t that significant of a decline except obp, before 09 fell off a cliff early without enough at bats late to pull it up. His numbers are better than Mark Derosa, and while I’m not opposed to the non tendering if we can keep Kelly for a cheaper deal, I certainly would like to see him retained and battling Prado for the starting job all spring on a smaller salary than what he’d have gotten through arbitration.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They've already said they're just going to hand Prado the job.
Hope he doesn’t show a single trace of streakiness, or people better be killing him.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And yes, I am emotionally invested. I have wasted far too many hours throwing the numbers around to simply go out like this!
:)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Man reason the Braves haven’t won a world series since 1995’ we operate on a limited budget and focus really in our history on SP, going cheap in the bullpen (except the past couple of years) and trading for our big bats or developing them.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 12, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So we haven’t won a World Series since because we don’t get big bats through Free Agency? Does “focus really in our history on SP” mean we focus on our SP of old too much or that we invest in pitching like we did when we were going to the playoffs? You also realize that we went to the WS the year after and the playoffs every year from 1991 until 2005, right?
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Um…most WS teams focus on SP, go cheap in the BP and either trade for their big bats or bring them up by developing them.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i am so tired of you using a shitty argument as your main means of hating on Prado. Look at Johnson’s OPS every year month by month. He always has one or two months of good production and 5 months of Jeff Francoeur production. While Prado will have one month of bad and 6 months of quality production.
Prado costs less and is just as much of a defensive liability. Prado is scrappy and looks like hee is enjoying the game. He involves everyone on the team which makes me feel like the team is well, a team.
Meanwhile KJ has done nothing to impress me. Had he not had a really good September last year after he would have had an OPS of around .721. And that September is long after the Braves missed the playoffs. So lots of good that did. He also dropped the ball during the game against the Phillies and I will always associate that with the season being scrapped.
So I like Prado more than KJ and I am not the least bit sad about him leaving, because I am tired of you constantly posting things about how we need to keep him around on the off chance that he is able to win back the starting job and go back to poor production most of the year and a few months of streak. Just because I don’t like him doesn’t mean that every time I comment about him, you have to come riding to his rescue.
Also Prado’s OPS in July was only .859 while his April OPS was 1.035. So if anything he would be Mr. April.
by someguy917 on Dec 13, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, you like prado because of his scrappiness and he somehow involves everyone on the team?
What, does he throw around the horn to get a guy out at 1st or something?
(PS, when comparing stats like OPS by month, you may want to take a gander at how manny ABs someone has in each month too…it’s called “sample size”)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 2:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not gonna lie, that would be an awesome way to get someone out. Also someguy, your argument is really not better in any way.
by acie4mvp on Dec 13, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not arguing with anyone. I don’t have and argument. I am just trying to defend myself from the KJ patrol that is justincredubil02. I like a player that plays for my team and apparently that means I have to constantly get attacked from other fans of my team.
by someguy917 on Dec 13, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I like players for things that go beyond stats. I like Prado because he earned his way onto the team. I respect that. The gets the team involved was a reference to all his handshakes and other things he does. You don’t have to like him. You don’t have to like this move, but stop ruining it for me.
I really don’t dislike you in any way. I just want to like Prado in peace.
PS, the only sample sizes that were small come from 2009 and 2005. You can kindly ignore those years and my argument still holds true. If you disagree you will be arguing that KJ isn’t streaky and that’s plain foolish. Look at 2008, which was apparently a good year.
by someguy917 on Dec 13, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t dislike Prado at all. Ask anyone in the game threads, I cheer just as loudly for Prado as anyone else. I just happen to think KJ is better.
When you say that having a certain player cut from our team makes you happy, that is not you supporting Prado, but rather you hating on KJ. So please, spare me the drama of “let me cheer my favorite in peace”.
Regarding small sample sizes, I am talking specifically about the months that you listed in your previous post.
Liking a player because he gets the whole team involved in handshakes is…um…a reach, at best? I mean, do you seriously think Prado shakes hands better than KJ or something?
I have never once stated that KJ isn’t streaky. I think he is one of the streakiest players I have ever seen. But, it is ironic that you bring that up, since most of the Prado supporters ignore the fact that he too is streaky and has benefitted greatly from an abnormally high BaBIP.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright this is my last post.
Prado brings the team together and makes it look like they are having fun. I like that. I go beyond stats. I make no apologies for that. The unique handshakes for every member of the team is just part of it.
I also don’t know what the issue with the sample sizes is as I thought I already addresses that, but its not important. Just disregard whatever I said that was using a small sample size.
I don’t want some internet fight here. I didn’t mean anything that bad to KJ. I never really liked him that much, but I never hated him. I just felt it was poor judgment to offer arbitration and I like this decision. I apologize if I offended you or KJ. See you in another thread.
by someguy917 on Dec 13, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he likes it cause he doesn’t really like KJ, just like you dont like this move about non tendering him cause you ARE a big fan of KJ. Sounds pretty simple to me. I like KJ and wished we could have gotten him but cant say im surprised about this move…
braves#1
by rockybull on Dec 12, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How could you like the idea of anyone getting fired? Which is essentially what this is.
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummmm lets say Greg Norton was arb eligible and we non tendered him, im pretty sure alot of people would be sayin heck yeah great move Wren i love it and stuff like that, and you might be one of the same ones sayin that, just think about that…
braves#1
by rockybull on Dec 12, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I mean it would be the right move, but I just don’t think it’s right to feel happy about it. I don’t know maybe I’m wrong.
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"rockybull" are u commenting towards me?
Because if yo are, I think you misunderstood…
I’m not a KJ fan, in fact I was actually commenting in favor of Prado.
Even if there is a small argument that can be made for KJ being a better player or having a higher talent ceiling there isn’t a chance that he was worth 10 times more Prado ever, especially not now.
Baseball is a game of numbers, and I think we all forget sometimes that a players price tag is one of thos numbers.
by cirela20 on Dec 12, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah cause now this debate is over and hopefully it will go away.
by someguy917 on Dec 13, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, as of right now...
… Heyward (RF), Schaefer (LF w/Diaz), and Freeman (1B) are all making the squad. And before I get lambasted for that, recall that there is no wiggle room until Lowe or Vazquez gets moved.
by carpengui on Dec 12, 2009 3:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I did a rough calculation and came up with about $88M that is committed for next year. That gives us about $5-7M to spend. Of coarse through free agency that gets you 1 guy so Lowe has to be moved. Also McLouth would play LF and Schafer would play CF.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was waffling over LF/CF mixing in Diaz/Schaef/McLouth.
by carpengui on Dec 12, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Schafer is a much better defender but he needs to spend the year at AAA after missing much of 2009. It wouldn’t hurt Heyward to start at AAA either.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely not gonna argue those points, except to say that at the moment, there are no bona fide LF (with apologies to MDiaz), RF, or 1B players signed. Things are starting to look a little thin.
by carpengui on Dec 12, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right now your right. I just hope that that isn’t how we open the season. I’m Wren will do something.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone talk me off this ledge…HURRY!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Heres one for you...
Prado’s BA > Kelly’s OBP last year. Just roll with what works.
by Zeus12888 on Dec 12, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn’t work for me. I can explain that KJ had an injury that required him to be DL’d, resulting in his poor numbers, but it doesn’t matter now.
I can only hope that we sign him to a lesser contract?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is.
But that’d require nobody else wanted him for more. I doubt getting let go particularly endeared the organization to him.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Life is pointless and you favorite player is gone! Jump!
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chipper is my favorite player…I just think KJ is better than Prado. KJ gets an unbelievable bad rap and ridiculous accusations against him (like how he is always hitting into DPs, etc) that I feel obligated to try to set straight.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As with the usual case, its probably somewhere in between. I don’t think he’s as good as you’re making him out to be, and I definitely don’t think he’s as bad as others think he is. All in all, though, I agree with Wren in that he’s probably not worth 4MM.
by soup du jour on Dec 12, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
finally, a comment i agree with
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 12, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nevertheless, JUMP!
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow first time that i have seen the dark side in CB :)
braves#1
by rockybull on Dec 12, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is pretty funny, cause away from baseball it’s almost all dark side. I’m almost a decent human being when I’m around this game.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And your friends have left you
You’ve been dismissed
I never thought it would come to this
And I, I want you to know
Everyone’s got to face down the demons
Maybe today we can put the past away
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend
You could cut ties with all the lies
That you’ve been living in and if you do not want to see me again
I would understand, I would understand, I would understand!
by soup du jour on Dec 12, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, 3rd Eye Blind got non-tendered by their label too…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been thinking that i really need to get real with them again.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 12, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, that song still sucks as much as it did the first time I heard it.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 12, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DON'T JUMP....
I don’t want to have to go to another dry suicide prevention briefing.
"My God! Good news fans, the Braves are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact, they appear to be beating the crap out of each other."
by bravos1984 on Dec 12, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahaha…i usually fall asleep during those…ok, i kid, but seriously….
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
justin
Just saw you were in texas, are you at Ft. Da Hood?
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, thankfully. I would hate to be anywhere near that place.
I am at Dyess AFB.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s good man, I was at Hood for a little bit, luckily they sent us up to Ft Carson Co this past June
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Woah! Look who shows up again
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Dec 13, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. I’ve been busy moving from Turkey to England. Very cold here…
"My God! Good news fans, the Braves are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact, they appear to be beating the crap out of each other."
by bravos1984 on Dec 13, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lakenheath?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeppers. Nice to be in a place where the locals can’t switch languages on you. Unless of course you count British English as a whole different language.
"My God! Good news fans, the Braves are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact, they appear to be beating the crap out of each other."
by bravos1984 on Dec 13, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cool, i guess, to an extent. Hey, at least you get actual snow
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Dec 14, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I tried to forewarn you, get you emotionally prepared, all that stuff. Alas, it didn’t seem to help much.
by fandave on Dec 12, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Off topic
I enjoyed this blurb from MLBTR
Raise your hand if you’re an arbitration-eligible Marlin who has been tendered an offer. Not so fast, Alfredo Amezaga.
by Gage23 on Dec 12, 2009 3:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This one from the comments section has me wondering if we should enact some sort of litmus test required before people procreate:
Brooks Conrad is a much better hitter, fielder, and all around better baseball player and I think he would be a great upgrade over Kelly
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would lol if I had it in me. I don’t.
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s what I don’t get: The Braves, as an organization are weakest at the infield positions…that being the case, shouldn’t they be willing to overpay a little for a very good middle infielder with above average pop???
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So we should be willing to save a few dollars and stick with our weak organizational IF depth?
I don’t get it.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s more than just a few dollars. Its $4M. That alone doesn’t get us much on the free agent market but it adds to the money we already had.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
$4M out of a $100M budget is nothing.
Besides, the contract would have probably been in the $3-3.5M range anyway.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still a lot to pay to a bench player who really can only play 1 position.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SS, LF, 2B is more than 1, and I am assuming that he could probably play 3rd too. I don’t know how his arm is after the surgery to say that he could play RF too, but there is always that possibility.
KJ is anything but a 1 position player.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but he’s also a fairly mechanical fielder and wouldn’t be that good at any of those positions. He couldn’t play RF with that arm but I guess it would be servicable in LF.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. And he wasn’t exactly Ozzie Smith at 2B, either.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Dec 12, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His UZR for his time in LF is actually quite good.
by Lennox on Dec 12, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, in 2005. It’s been awhile since he’s been out there.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 3:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
KJ at shortstop???
LOLOLOLOL.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 4:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently, someone doesn’t know their Braves players…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at jack dein below, it’ll have been 7 years since he played there.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know, but to laugh at the thought of KJ at SS is ignorant. He was drafted and came up as one.
Just because the Braves have used him in other roles doesn’t mean he can’t play the position. He will not be Jose Reyes out there, but he would be serviceable.
The point is, he is not a 1 trick pony.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He could probably fill in at 3B and LF for a game but he’s a limited option. Infante can play all OF position plus the infield except 1B, P, and C for a game or two.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand how Infante (a career journeyman, btw) is all of a sudden better at every position than KJ.
Isn’t Infante getting something like $3M this year?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He just is better. He’s more versatile and he’s shown a consistent ability to play off the bench.
I won’t argue that KJ could probably play a little SS, but man it would be ugly. Anything other than 2B, 3B, 1B, and LF would be bad, and none of those are gonna be pretty.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there was a reason he changed positions...
Keep in mind that he changed from SS to outfield in order to make it to the majors, and usually that means either there’s a top prospect or star ahead of you at your position or that your defense is flat out bad, (in this case the latter is definitely true.)
Anyone who has seen KJ try to field a ground ball to his backhand side should be scared to death of him playing any amount of games at shortstop
by cirela20 on Dec 13, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s getting $2.225M and Infante is a utility player. Infante is a high avg. high OBP guy who is at the very least serviceable at all those postions. I also wonder if Johnson being arb. eligible for 2011 also hurt his value. He made $2.8M last year and would have made around $4M this year. In 2011 he would have made around $5M and with Prado set to start at 2B he likely wouldn’t have been given the opportunity to play regularly.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
he was a SS until surgery. then he was a LF.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 13, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, that’s inacurrate.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he was drafted as such…he wouldnt be that good, be either is Infante at SS…he could play SS like CHipper could play SS (although ebign as KJ is more athletic he probably would be better than CHipper).
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He hasn’t played SS since 2003 at AA. I don’t know if I want to put his arm back in the OF. He could probably play 3B for a game but when you have Infante whose a better hitter and can field all those positions why keep him around.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Theoretically, David Ortiz COULD play SS
That doesn’t mean he will play it well…
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Dec 12, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is a difference in someone theoretically playing a position and someone actually being drafted, groomed and paid to play the position.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you seen Kelly at 2B? If so, imagine that range at SS. Pretty scary.
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Dec 12, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still does not make your comparison any more relevant
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have, and I have seen him with some pretty good range at 2B, so I don’t know what you are talking about.
Kelly made errors, sure. But he didn’t make that many. He made BIG errors that stick out in people’s minds, which is why he is labeled as a “bad defender” when he is actually pretty good.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
his range is actually quite bad… ur slipping bro. His athleticism saves him but his instincts at 2B are for shit.. his range was the worst in all of baseball in 08 for 2B
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
according to fangraphs
his defensive rating in his last full season was a -10.6…he was -.1 last season…take that to mean whatever you want
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 12, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the recent results would be more relevant.
The guy only learned the position three years ago. And this year’s range component was 1.4, a decent bit above average (particularly when Prado’s been negative his whole career and is lauded as a defensive wizard relative to KJ.)
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His range is fine.
It’s above-average, and it’s certainly better than uber-hero Prado.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's quite the assumption.
He hasn’t played any of the above other than second since TJ.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This, for 4 million you can sign 3 or 4 guys who can produce the way Kelly did this year and increase your IF depth.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone is getting wrapped up in KJ’s 2009. Why? Do his other years of above-average numbers not count now that he had a year in which he was injured?
Saying you can sign 3-4 guys with KJs contract money is absurd too, in that you can only replace him with 1 player on the roster.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re the one worried about depth. And I only care about 2009 because we don’t play the game in the past. 2010 is coming up and if I’m building a roster I’m not looking at who was good in 07 or 08, I want guys who seem like they’re going to be good in the future. I know you love him, but KJ’s percentages have dropped 3 years in a row. That’s not a guy I want to invest money in. I wouldn’t buy a stock that had been consistently losing.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would buy that stock…depending on the circumstances of course.
When that stock is going down, there is never a better time to buy.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When that stock is going down, there is never a better time to buy.
thank god ur not in the financial sector
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
buy low, sell high.
It has worked for my stocks. I had a 19% profit over the past year – even with the “recession”.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you're not buying low if he costs 4 mil
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 13, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry, maybe my analogy wasn’t full. You have one company, an established company, it’s seen it’s production decrease for three straight years. You have a second company, that sells the exact same product as the older company, it’s younger and less proven, but it’s production has been better than the older company for the last year. The stock for the older company is ten times more expensive than the stock for the newer company. Which stock do you buy?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 3:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats about as easy a decision as they come ESPECIALLY during these times…
braves#1
by rockybull on Dec 13, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you "don't play the game in the past"
Why does the 2009 season matter so much? It, too, is in the past, no?
by cavebird on Dec 12, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose it’s because stats get wiped clean but medical records don’t.
"My God! Good news fans, the Braves are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact, they appear to be beating the crap out of each other."
by bravos1984 on Dec 12, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now you’re just being difficult.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 3:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was waiting for...
…the linguistic explanation of why 2009 wasn’t in the past. ;) (sorry, couldn’t help it, just having fun).
by cavebird on Dec 13, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure there was a linguistic definition but it was 3 am and I was like, come on, really?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Kelly
Enjoyed having KJ around. Good ball player and seemed like a nice fella.
I agree with Wren, though, 4 million is a bit steep for a back up second baseman.
by kalesi on Dec 12, 2009 3:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Everyone needs to take a chill pill...
For better or for worse, Wren has made the call…there’s no sense bickering over it now. Root for the players we’ve got now, and trust that FW knows what he’s doing
by Zeus12888 on Dec 12, 2009 3:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I concur. Us yelling and cussing won’t change FW’s decison.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 3:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Circumstances dictated this move, I don’t think it was a vote of no confidence in KJ. I like KJ alot, but now we should all be pulling for Prado to tear it up.
Let’s not forget that we all pull for the same team
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody is rooting against Prado. There is just a group of us who feel the Kelly is the better player
by eaheckman10 on Dec 12, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that’s fine, but why argue heatedly about it? The decision has been made
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If that’s the case then why argue about anything on here because we have no real input to the team?
by eaheckman10 on Dec 12, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken
I just don’t get why get so upset here
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No reason to argue...
Prado IS better than Kelly. In almost every way, sans maybe sprinting.
8 )P
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 12, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and sans baseball, but I guess that is another discussion…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha it seems easy for you to say when you’re supporting the move… lol
by Gage23 on Dec 12, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still Crying Hysterically
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Dec 12, 2009 4:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
“Nick! Nick! Where are you?”
“Ahhhh! I’m in a glass case of emotion!”
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 4:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Join the Schafer bandwagon!
They call us Schafer’s Chafers. So far there’s one member
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He would have been my pick. My top 3 Braves were Chipper, Kelly, and Schafer. I guess Schafer gets the promotion
by eaheckman10 on Dec 12, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Schafer’s Chauffeurs? is that what u are aiming at there
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, chafer puts a bad image in my head
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Dec 12, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chauffeurs is an option but no it is not what I was aiming for
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gotcha..i wasnt sure if that was a spelling error or if u intended that you like jordan and have some sort of rash
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chipper's Dippers
We also endorse Skoal smokeless tobacco
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha. yess.
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Dec 12, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
winner winner chicken dinner
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard we have some right fielder coming up from the minors. He sounds like he may be likable.
by McCann and McWill on Dec 12, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This Lowe thing better go right. In a really good way. That’s really all I have to say.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 12, 2009 4:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good-bye Kelly Johnson
Hello Garrett Atkins?
by SmithnCompany on Dec 12, 2009 4:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I sure hope not.
Atkins is not a good player. He has never hit outside of Coors, and in 2009 he couldn’t hit there either.
by cavebird on Dec 12, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mistake
I think this was a big mistake….both from a financial and baseball perspective….
1) I think he is a pretty good ballplayer and he will end up cathing on and doing well this year. He is a guy that the Giants, Twins, Royals, Pirates, Marlins…maybe even the Dodgers will jump on. He will end up being a .270/.350 guy …hitting 20 hrs. That will make him an acceptable option at 2B given his defense and it could make him an accetable option in the OF for some team as his OF defense is good and offense will be so/so. So I think losing him from your team at a low point is a mistake baseball wise.
2) His and Church’s removal from the roster…with nothing in return hurts our depth. I wonder how much we will have to spend to sign free agents to fill those hole?
3) I think this could have been avoided….given that the Braves knew they were going to come to this…why wasn’t he traded early in the offseason. Getting to the last couple of weeks every team that was probably interested…just decided to wait…and see what happens rather then give up prospects.
4) I know people like Prado…and I do as well. However, I just think we have seen his ceiling….now if he can maintain that for a while…..fine. However, my fear is that he will level off a little bit and see something closer to a .270/.320 hitter….which may not seem like a lot but is a big drop off from the .300/.360 we have been seeing. That being said…he does profile well as a #2 hitter.
by calbers on Dec 12, 2009 4:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If he goes to the Dodgers....
I wonder if he could develop the way Either has developed…their numbers were similiar coming through the minors if memory serves me….Either was a 3B in the Oakland system before moving to the OF.
by calbers on Dec 12, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i certaintly dont think KJ has the power to be Ethier, however, if you are referencing Ethier blooming lat then its possible.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly’s offense plays like someone with a switch on their back. You just never know if he’s on or off. Pretty precarious stuff.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 12, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More late bloomer offensively....
Ethier’s power was a surprise last year….so no…I don’t think that is likely. But I could see KJ hitting like a Ethier of 2007 or 2008. For the record…I was wrong about his IF experience…I could have sworn he played 3B at some point…but I was wrong.
by calbers on Dec 12, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t even see how Ethier is a late bloomer. He’s the same age as Kelly and he started his pro career three years later. When you sign your first contract at 21 and turn into an All Star at 27, that’s a pretty regular amount of time.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly Johnson develop into Andre Ethier?
Ha. Ha. Ha.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Neither here nor there, but didn’t Kelly get us a big homer in LA last year?
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 12, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he did indeed. it was on a changeup and he pulled it down the RF line
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m thinking it won us the game. And then, something like the next game in the series Ethier pulled the same thing on us.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 12, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember correctly, we dominated game 1 of the 4 game series and then Ethier broke our little hearts and hit a walkoff.
The next night, KJ hit the homer in, like, the 12th inning or so.
The next night, we won again in extra innings.
The next night, Clayton Kershaw shit on us on national TV and the Dodgers won by a bunch
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Roight.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 12, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
20 home runs? How is a 28 year old who’s career high in the Majors is 16 (two years ago) and who’s only hit over 20 once in his minor league career, 23 in low a ball, all of the sudden going to become a 20 HR guy?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 12, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The same way Escobar is apparently going to hit 30 bombs in the future.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 12, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
20 homers for KJ?
considering in his two full seasons he combined to hit 28, I don’t see that happening
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 12, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/johnson-a-free-agent-239305.html
FW open to retaining KJ, but at lower cost
by Zeus12888 on Dec 12, 2009 4:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
(not placing any unnecessary blame here)…..
But I could see TP telling KJ to, “just stick with it.”
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 12, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not likely.....
If you are Kelly…if you are taking a pay cut…you are taking a 1 yr deal where you can start…so you can cash in in 2011.
by calbers on Dec 12, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
YES!!! I was hoping this would happen!!!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll miss ya KJ.
I think my favorite moment was when he came off the bench and hit a pinch hit grand slam again the Mets. That, or the time he hit 2 bombs in a game…also against the Mets.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 12, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
We never hit a grand slam in 09 did we?
by Gage23 on Dec 12, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 12, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL...
Check out the star of that game.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure didn’t.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was a strange situation. At one point, we had the bases loaded. I remember Infante was on third, and made it home on a weird play. Then McCann came up and knocked one out with men on 1st and 2nd, just after Infante had come in from 3rd.
So, no, we didn’t. Technically.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 13, 2009 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was at that game. It’s been a long time since we’ve had a grand slam
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sucks to have a guy who came up through our system, was a top offensive 2B in the NL for two seasons, who supposedly had a lot of teams calling to ask about him, and to now give him up without getting anything in return.
by Lennox on Dec 12, 2009 6:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sad to see KJ go. The Braves never really got the most from him. I do prefer Martin Prado, but I have nothing against KJ.
Hopefully a change of scenery is all he needs.
So who signs KJ, the Royals or the Natinals?
by Sparhawk on Dec 12, 2009 6:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Since no one on here listens without a fangraphs reference
In the “value” rankings fangraphs, for defense at 2B.
2008 – Kelly Johnson had the WORST fielder rating at 2B in the NL
2007 – Kelly Johnson had the second worst fielder rating at 2B in the NL, behind only the shell of Jeff Kent.
I get it, the guy had 2 decent seasons driven by hot streaks. But he was bad defensively and as of now Martin Prado is better.
He seemed like a nice guy, was nice to see him come through the system but this is not a big loss. Time to move on.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 12, 2009 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I give him some a lot of credit here: he came in as an outfielder and had to learn the 2nd base position – almost from scratch. He worked hard at it for a couple of years and did so well enough to hang with a major league roster.
by carpengui on Dec 12, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn’t actually an outfielder though, he was a shortstop, then a third baseman, then an outfielder, and then a second baseman. The guy has moved all over because he’s not that good at any of the positions.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 3:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2009 – Martin Prado was WORSE than Kelly Johnson in 100 less innings.
Fun that you forgot to mention that one.
by bigjoe on Dec 12, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Martin Prado’s batting average was also higher than KJ’s OBP in 2009. You forgot to mention that one too.
I know it’s not about defense, but still…
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and u forgot to mention even in a reduced injury plagued season.. KJ still ISO’ed more than Prado
we can do this all day if u want… ur love for Prado is as baseless as the love for KJ
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You seemed to forget that Prado’s BABIP was 85 points higher than Johnson’s.
by bigjoe on Dec 12, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prado’s skills point towards a higher BABiP, but ur right it shouldnt be that much more
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That and outside of Prado’s July streak where his BaBIP was over .400, he wasn’t very impressive.
He did have a good 2 week stretch to close out the season, but that too was aided by an outrageously high BaBIP.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
most players good streaks are the product of high BABip…look at any streak…its a product of well hit balls falling in
so this argument is useless as well
come on ur better than this
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I get that. I am not arguing that point, really. I am arguing that people need to temper their expectations of Prado due to this fact. It is unreasonably to expect him to be able to produce like he did during that stretch last season.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but its not unreasonable to expect that month to happen again and have him come out with similar stasts at the end of the year.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh
and the difference between Kj and Prado in UZR is -1.3. It’s not like Prado is garbage out there.
Goodness. You KJ supporters really took this one hard, huh? He’s just a baseball player. And I’m pretty sure he doesn’t give 2 shits about you. I don’t know why you guys get all defensive about him
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know why you get so OFFensive about him…it is like you slime him any and every chance you get.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t. Most of the time its in response to someone trying to say KJ is better than Prado. Maybe I get so OFFensive because KJ supporters on here go nuts whenever someone supports Martin Prado. Don’t act like its not true..
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
u have covered this thread with Prado comments… no one provoked u
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All of the 31971397139 KJ Fanboys and Fangirls did
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look, another one!
You just gave an example of what I am talking about. Thanks.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha you’re welcome broski
Long live Martin Prado!
(Dont get mad at me guys, it’s just a phrase I like. It’s all in good fun)
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I think that is that...
…they both are pretty bad defensively. That’s a problem. But, Prado is young, maybe he can improve and make it to average. I would be cool with that.
by cavebird on Dec 12, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Aren’t they pretty much the same age? I think KJ is older by 2 years, so Prado isn’t really young…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point. Everyone says Prado is this young up and coming player but he’s only like a year and a half younger.
by acie4mvp on Dec 13, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s basically 2 years, February of 82 and October of 83, and in baseball, that’s a lot.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prado's certainly been playing 2B longer and likely still has more total experience there.
KJ’s the one who’s been showing defensive improvement.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And yet he improved to the point that he had an average UZR this year.
It’s tough to have a major surgery and then be told to learn a position you’ve never played. He’s also a million miles ahead of Prado, who can’t get to any ball more than a step and a half away from him.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
EDIT: Johnson was the 3rd worst in 2007, Uggla was worse.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 12, 2009 6:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
4th worst. Craig Biggio was there too. Your argument is falling apart a little, no?
by bigjoe on Dec 12, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention the +/- rankings paint a different story if i remember correctly
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you’re happy KJ was better deffensively than 2 washed up 2B in 09 (Kent and Biggio) then so be it. Thats no accomplishment.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 12, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just hope...
he doesn’t end up in the NL East.
Wherever he ends up, I predict this is a move that is going to come back to haunt the Braves.
But, what’s done is done, so let’s move on.
Go Braves!, as always.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Dec 12, 2009 6:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i want Kj on the braves… but in all fairness i thin kwe said the same thign about Giles haunting us… and well
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His babip was pretty much the opposite of KJ’s though
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If anybody thought Giles was going to haunt them they really weren’t paying attention. And if anyone thinks Johnson is going to haunt them…
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 3:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, not so much.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is probably a dumb question...
FW said that we’re open to retaining Kelly, just at a lower cost. So couldn’t we have just offered him a cheaper contract instead of none at all? Or do we have to offer him arbitration?
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 7:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the latter, which would cost way too much. Happy Trails KJ. You weren’t my favorite, but you gave it all. Best of luck
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Dec 12, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So we have to offer arbitration or let him go? What if we were willing to sign him to a multi-year deal? Just trying to figure out how this process works
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we could have tendered him a multi year deal, but thats not sensible, bc right now theres a chance the 09 KJ is the real KJ and the June 09 Prado is the real deal, we jsut dont know…if either are true, after this year we would know and theres no reason to take a mutli year risk on KJ right now
but we could haev offered a mutli year deal and still can.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I wasn’t saying that’s what we should do, just wondering about the system. Thanks for the explanation
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which part of ’09 for each of those guys though? That is the crazy part. Both were really good for parts of ’09 and both were really bad in parts of ’09.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would make my day if a Prado supporter willingly admitted that Prado is also streaky.
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prado is streaky
his streaks are just better
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 12, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prado’s July streak was better. His other streak (the one where he sucked for nearly 5 weeks) was actually worse than KJ’s bad streak. But, don’t let that get in the way of everyone’s fanaticism.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In 2008
Johnson’s most recent “good” year, he had 3 months where he hit under .240
But don’t that let get in the way of your fanaticism.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 1:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t let Batting Average ever stand in the was of a good argument. Well-done!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 2:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dont let reality stand in the way of a man crush.
Bravo
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 3:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed.
And although I hate to repeat myself, a nice, simple, reality-based comparison of the career numbers does seem in order.
Prado: 779 MLB career ABs: .307/ .360/ .451/ .811
Johnson: 1661 MLB career ABs: .264/ .346/ .430/ .777
by fandave on Dec 13, 2009 8:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dude dont you KNOW Johnson had sooooooooooooooooooo many more AB’s so that clearly means he is better, come on man get it together ;)
braves#1
by rockybull on Dec 13, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I trust him more because he’s had more PAs…
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol, yeah i was bein sarcastic but some on here have made arguments FOR those plate appearances and sayin how Prado hasn’t had nearly as much so its a smaller sample size lol.
braves#1
by rockybull on Dec 13, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's definitely harder to perform once a week when matchups dictate than to play every day.
Good call.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant to say his hot streaks are better
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 14, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember when Kelly finished the season out with a 27 or 28 game hit streak?
by acie4mvp on Dec 13, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But thank you for admitting it, sort of.
by acie4mvp on Dec 13, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has 5 years of service time so yes we have to. The only thing that we could have done is offer him 80% of what he made last year and go to arbitration and hope for the best. I can’t think of a player though who made less money through arbitration. 80% still would have been $2.24M.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
never happened, i dont think a team has ever won an arb hearing. regardless of their tag. its a fair system, really.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, they have.
Many teams win by being more reasonable that the agent for the player. But you have to offer a reasonable amount. And we didn’t want to offer KJ a reasonable amount for a player of his skills and service time. Now the market decides. We’ll see what he gets.
by cavebird on Dec 12, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The minimum you can offer a player during arbitration is 80% of what he made the previous year. As i said above that still would have been $2.24M. In my opinion that’s just to much for a guy coming off the year he had.
As far as who wins arbitration hearings the most, I read last year that it’s fairly even. I can’t think of a player however who saw his pay decrease through arbitration.
by jack dein on Dec 12, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is very rare...
…because of the way the system is built. The salary through arbitration is based upon salaries of similar players with the same service time. For a first year arbitration case, it will always be a raise because before then players are more or less free. The way the system works, the salary goes up each arbitration year, which is why salaries rarely go down—-each successive year the player has one more year of service time.
by cavebird on Dec 13, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't do that.
We had two choices given his service time—-offer him arbitration or let him be a free agent. We chose the later. He can still sign with us, but everyone else gets a shot at him too.
by cavebird on Dec 12, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, I know I've not been posting anything since last offseason...
but this strikes me as an incredible blunder and I can hardly believe some folks think this is a good move. KJ’s 2009 struggles were fueled by a BABIP .249 as compared to ~.315 in the two years prior. That kind of drop is probably attributable to some bad luck. His walk rate was a solid 9%, his ISO was good at .165, and he actually cut back on his Ks while also bringing his defense up to about league average.
Prado, the guy some folks seem to prefer, is just the opposite – his BABIP is a bit high and, if it drops to merely average, will cease to be worth anything with the bat. Furthermore, his career UZR/150 at 2B is -15.2 He’s probably not that bad, but he’s not a good defender at the keystone by any stretch.
This seems like a dumb move, and I’ve yet to see any evidence that makes me think differently.
by BraveBronco0121 on Dec 12, 2009 8:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
you a Broncos fan as well? I need someone to talk crap to after the Colts win again tomorrow. :)
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, I have made all of those points multiple times, but it seems that people don’t care.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha, sorry to be rehashing then...
but I just couldn’t bring myself to wade through all of that… mess up top.
by BraveBronco0121 on Dec 12, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, we have gone through this debate ad nauseum over the past 9 months or so…we haven’t really touched it in this thread, believe it or not.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember it got pretty heated last offseason
by BraveBronco0121 on Dec 12, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s another thread from a few days ago that got pretty intense. I made the point that it would make more sense to tender Kelly a contract and trade Prado. I don’t think anyone other than Justin agreed/listened.
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh...
I don’t know if that would have been the right move. Prado is too versatile and too good to let go, even if KJ’s better.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a tough call.
He has a bat that can hit when healthy. He also can’t field worth crap. At the price, it is a tough call. Don’t know if it is a good or bad move.
by cavebird on Dec 12, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He can't?
He was an average 2B in just his third season at the position last year, and was trending upward.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No one said it was a “good move”, but it also isn’t a move that will hold the team back. Martin Prado has had around 700 ABs the last 2 seasons and has proven himself in every way. Kelly became expendable, especially given his 2009 performance.
If this move helps gives the Braves more flexibility to get a good bat that will be able to play every day (as Kelly wasn’t going to), then I really can’t see a negative there.
I actually argues for Kelly before the season, but he didn’t step up and Martin did. Its over, people need to realize this decision makes sense financially.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 12, 2009 8:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Let it be known, I have nothing against Kelly Johnson. Just dumping my limited KJ material for the last time.
I hope Kelly goes somewhere and is successful and him and his hot wife live happily ever after.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 12, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
That may be the worst thing about all of this…no more of this girl:
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the beautiful women are leavign the ATL…first Mrs Kotsay now Mrs Johnson (hehe, its a synonym for weiner)
we need swisher
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
isnt DLowe’s wife a hottie too? But hell, shes probably on here way out too
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...they have a skeezy story of how they met tho
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 12, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve always thought KJ’s wife was the prettiest
"Dum spiro spero"
by Bravely going forward on Dec 12, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I look at him first, but he strangely looks like Matthew Stafford in this picture.
by acie4mvp on Dec 12, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is a dude in the pic?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This I will agree with. Of the wives I’ve seen pictures of KJ’s is by far the hottest.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 3:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jamie Kotsay disagrees
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dammit…
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 13, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1. Love the high scoks
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Dec 12, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
spelling fail
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Dec 12, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 13, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sigh....
I will miss the socks as well as the legs inside them.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Dec 14, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 13, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is there any way we can make it a TC rule that this thread is the last place we will have the insufferable Prado-KJ debate?
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 12, 2009 9:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
haha, it would be nice, but...
we all know that wont happen. I’d sure like it tho.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 12, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as soon as we get a thread with a moratorium on all Teixiera trade talk
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 12, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 13, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just wait til Prado has a poor ST or hits an extended slump
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Something makes me think justincredibul has some sort of RSS feed that will alert him on his desktop anytime an internet story mentions “prado” and “struggling” “slump” or “error” in the same page.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 12, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as well as pre-written rants to increase efficiency
by Skyagusta on Dec 12, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The only thing that I will ever post when that happens is a smiley. And the best part about that is you will all know exactly what I mean, and I won’t even have to say it.
Also, you might want to get used to seeing those smileys around…
If Prado puts up numbers this coming year (and as a Braves fan, I can only hope he does!), I will apologize and concede that this was a good move.
However, I foresee Infante being our starting 2B by the end of the year.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just dont understand how 700 ABs of .310+ baseball isn’t enough.
I imagine that he could hit .300 AGAIN this year and all we would hear would be how his BAPIP was misleading and how good Kellys ISO was in 30 games for his new team.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BA FTW again!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 2:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stat junkie garbage man!
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They might want to see if Infante wants to stick around at 3rd pretty soon. You never know.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 13, 2009 1:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When it’s August and Prado is doing what he does and Johnson still hasn’t regained his 2007 form then we’ll have a thread for the final discussion.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 3:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If that happens, you can all mock me and never listen to me again. But Prado has to have been good for the whole season, not just a streak in August. And I pray he will have been.
by acie4mvp on Dec 13, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you consider good for a whole season? Johnson has never been good for a whole season if we’re going to look at streaks as discounting a player from being good. One month, no matter how good it was couldn’t possibly have affected his season that much. His other months, which weren’t as good as his best month, were still good. This one month argument is just a silly one by a lot of people who I thought were smarter than that.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My off-the-cuff guess is for the substantial majority (say, 80%) of everyday players in MLB, there is tons of month to month variability throughout any given season. So, for example, a .300 hitter will hit .230, .275, .310 and .335 in various months; and a 40 HR hitter will hit 3, 8 and 13 in various months.
Truly consistent production, I’d guess, is quite rare.
by fandave on Dec 13, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
KJ
I understand people having emotions when a player who at 1 point looked
like a long term contributor slides down and is replaced. the Braves could not
afford to carry KJ as a non-starter and prado simply won the job, just as the
unheralded javy lopez came up the blue collar route.
infante provides the Braves enormous flexibilty as he can spell a number of
players if injured or underacheieve. a utility IF is not hard to find either from
within or a draft wire pick in ST, or a throw in in a major deal.
FW had some tough choices yet does find himself with some freed up cash
and Lowe plus an excess of prospects to get us a 1B or LF.
by sealift67 on Dec 12, 2009 9:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ha...the "unheralded" Javy Lopez?
The one who was—for three consecutive years—a top 80 prospect in all of baseball (and top 20 the last two of those?)
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Frank Wren...
…Once again has the guts to slash a fan-favorite, that will in the long run make the team better. We can’t spend money on players that don’t produce, it’s as simple as that. It’s the same reason FW didn’t offer more money to John Smoltz last offseason.
Wren knows what he’s doing, and I’m sure things will start to fall in place once John Lackey signs. That’s the key to our offseason.
by BigG1392 on Dec 12, 2009 10:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know...
KJ was considered a “fan-favorite”.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Dec 14, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You must not interact with many fans.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What I mean...
is a fan favorite in the “oh look, it’s Jeff Francouer, he’s so dreamy” way, not the “Kelly Johnson is a great player” way. He is definitely one of this fan’s favorites in that way.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Dec 17, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am so effing pissed right now...
the hardest decision I had to make today was which Kelly Johnson tee to buy from MLBShop…the navy or red one?
I’ll miss you, Kelly Johnson. I hope I’m wrong, but I think the Braves may be sorry when Marteeeen doesn’t have quite the year he had last year and Kelly tears it up somewhere else.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Dec 12, 2009 10:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hope you chose red – the Sunday alternate jerseys really annoy the purists. Did you get a non-tendered price?
by carpengui on Dec 12, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate the the Sunday alternates, too...
but I chose red because EVERYONE has the navy shirts. Figured I’d be different. I’ve already got a navy Maddux tee.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Dec 12, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I'm going Kelly green next time
although I totally get annoyance at prioritizing fashion over accuracy in sports apparel.
Rah Rah Ah Ah Ah Roma Romama GaGa Ooh Lala
by VivaLosBravos on Dec 13, 2009 1:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no "Kelly" pun intended.
Rah Rah Ah Ah Ah Roma Romama GaGa Ooh Lala
by VivaLosBravos on Dec 13, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
glad to hear everyone has the navy ones. hopefully those away jerserys will be around for a long time. ESPECIALLY the hat.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 13, 2009 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not quite sure what you're saying...
I simply meant that most everyone I see with a Braves tee has a navy one. I figured I’d get red because it’s a bit more unique. Plus, people say they like red on me ;)
I wish they had a T-shirt version of the road alternates…the navy & white w/no red whatsoever. I think those would be pretty cool =)
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Dec 13, 2009 2:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Should I even bother...
…starting the unique discussion again?
by cavebird on Dec 13, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The reds are no less ugly than the blues.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My best guess on "The Plan"
1. Sell Lowe… for as close to $15 millX3 as possible.
2. Buy Mike Cameron
3. Use the rest to fill in the bench and provide depth (for example, right now there are 1-1/2 outfielders on the roster: McL. and Diaz… not counting Greg White and Infante for the moment).
4. Give Heyward a chance to win the RF job for April.
5. Freeman’s status depends on the success of #1 and #3.
6. Schafer likewise.
by carpengui on Dec 12, 2009 11:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
we need a 1B
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I think this move will prove to be a mistake and will bite us in the ass, but I certainly understand the reasoning behind why the front office made the decision it did. I hope KJ likes it in Atlanta so much he doesn’t end up in Kansas City and decides to resign at around 2 mil or so.
Having said all that, if nothing changes in the situation between now and next Friday, my standard vote of 7 in the fan confidence poll goes to a 1.
Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?
by Rhyno18 on Dec 13, 2009 12:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t NFL free agency where all the signings happen in the first week. Basically until Lackey and either Holliday or Bay sign there isn’t going to be a lot of action. The best thing we can hope for is that the bidding on Lackey goes high and teams start to think that they can save a lot of money by trading for Lowe. Hopefully Lackey signs before Bay so that once we move Lowe’s contract we can maybe get into the Bay talks. There’s almost no chance we sign Holliday because Boras is asking for 6 years at $18M per. When we move Lowe we could offer Bay 5 years $75M. His best offer that we know about is from the Mets at 4 years $65M. It’s been said that whatever team wants to go to 5 years would probably get him.
by jack dein on Dec 13, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For that difference of 3 million I know who i would rather have. Bring in Holliday
by Dutch Braves Fan on Dec 13, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bay is not that good. Cameron would be better. I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to sign Holliday for just $3 million a year more.
by acie4mvp on Dec 13, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope you don’t think Cameron is better than Bay. There’s a reason why one of them is going to get $15M a year and the other about half that.
Bay is a very good player. Yeah his defense is a little suspect but he’s not playing a premium position and his .280/.376/.519 career line makes up for it. He does K a lot but he also BB’s a lot to. Cameron is the better defender but he’ll also be 37 when next season starts. Bay has better power and is going to hit for a better avg. Offensively there’s no comparison between them, Bay is well ahead of Cameron.
by jack dein on Dec 13, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There was a great fangraphs article...
…explaining why Cameron was pretty much as good as Bay, so he is hardly the only one who thinks this. Yes, Cameron is 37, but he won’t get more than 2 years—-given the years Bay will get; his age at the end of the contract will be pretty close to Cameron’s. Also, Bay not playing a premium position makes Cameron’s point, not Bay’s. Cameron plays a more valuable position—-for example, signing him would allow us to move McLouth to left and improve our defense at two positions.
by cavebird on Dec 13, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does Cameron not playing in more than 150 games the last 2 years not concern you? Cameron is a good player but his avg. and age really worry me.
by jack dein on Dec 13, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
his avg shouldnt worry you, bc his OBP is still strong, esp if we are batting him behind McCann in the 6th spot (whihc is where he would succeed the msot)…his age is a concern, but he has shown virtually no significant decline recently and i think he still has another year b4 that hits… if we have to give him 2 years im less excited about the deal, but it still istn enough of a concern to not take the risk for the reward of his 2010 season.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No I am not too concerned.
One year he would have been over 150 games but for a 25 game suspension to start the season. (greenies, I think). He’s has been fairly durable his entire career.
by cavebird on Dec 13, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is accurate
he apologized, didnt bitch took it like a man and served his suspension and came back and played pretty well.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely with the first paragraph.
by John Holton on Dec 13, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
your confidence drops 6 spots bc of kj?
even if you really like the guy…wtf
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 13, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol…even mine will stay at an 8.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
KJ was good stuff when he was on, and he was a fantasy stud ($1 FA pickup, ride him out for his streak and then dump him when he starts to go cold). I don’t dislike the guy but I’m not that sad to see him go, he just didn’t have a spot here so better luck elsewhere.
Kind of like Glavine and Smoltz. Glavine is still my all time favorite SP even after two ugly break-ups with Atlanta. Smoltz, I don’t fault him for leaving and I don’t fault Wren for not doing more to lock him up. Sometimes it just doesn’t work out.
49th State Hardball
Fan Blog of the Alaska Baseball League
by Sweatsack on Dec 13, 2009 1:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Big Picture Ignored
I didn’t read all 300+ comments on this thread, but I think many of us (myself included) have become so immersed in the KJ vs. Martin debate that we can’t view either one in a context outside of that…
I think KJ is a better baseball player, but I understand the decision to non-tender him and am in full support of Mr. Prado for 2010.
I think half of you need to learn to like Prado and the other half need to say good bye to Kelly cordially and in complete appreciation of what he did for this franchise.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Dec 13, 2009 1:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wren is saying they would try to bring Kelly back at a lower salary which I could get behind. I like him a lot off the bench, but I feel like Prado was the right choice for the future. Hopefully, we will resign him. If not, good luck KJ.
by someguy917 on Dec 13, 2009 2:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll miss you Kelly
I am normally a pretty big Bobby Cox fan, but I was a little upset KJ never got a chance to get in the line up. When he got back off the DL. It seems like Bobby didn’t want to give Kelly a shot at winning the job back from Prado. I am sad to see KJ go but I am a Braves fan first! I cheer for the guys in the uniform. I would cheer for Hitler if he had a A on his cap!
by Buttafuco13 on Dec 13, 2009 2:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would cheer for Hitler if he had a A on his cap!
I sure as heck hope you are joking. Some may accuse me of having no sense of humor for this, but cheering for Adolf Hitler is not funny. Ever. Especially for my Jewish & other ethnically diverse friends on this board.
Maybe said friends don’t care and I’m being over-sensitive?
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Dec 13, 2009 2:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1. I was joking of course
2. I am Jewish
by Buttafuco13 on Dec 13, 2009 3:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 13, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HALT JEW!!
Stay where you are and do not attempt to change shape! :P
"My God! Good news fans, the Braves are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact, they appear to be beating the crap out of each other."
by bravos1984 on Dec 13, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
quick! Throw dollars at them and they will go away!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh the Hitler joke was in bad taste but it is ok to make fun of Jews?
by Buttafuco13 on Dec 13, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it’s a borat reference i think
Cockchafer
by bpk228480 on Dec 13, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BING!!!
"My God! Good news fans, the Braves are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact, they appear to be beating the crap out of each other."
by bravos1984 on Dec 13, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. It is.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Give me your tears, gypsy.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 14, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations you're the 500th commenter!
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 14, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huzzah!
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 14, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And that was totally worthy of the 500th post.
Well done, SB!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 14, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
/bow
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 16, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hitler jokes are never in good taste… its amazing people dont understand this
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, long thread!
Summary,
1. Sad to see KJ possibly go.
2. Prado may or may not have a better year next year.
3. Still not a FY Wren blind zombie follower…As a Longtime Braves fan my “Camilotian” view of our team gets shattered a little more each season…Who is next to get ‘chopped’, Chipper? Last year’s knee jerk reaction to overspend on starting pitching is starting to bite us in the bu(t)dget a little!
by bravestatoo on Dec 13, 2009 2:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
335+ comments? On a Satuday?
I f’ing love Talking Chop.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 13, 2009 3:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
the sad thing is that they have pretty much all been made by 10 people
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 3:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How is that a “sad” thing? We are having a conversation, as opposed to a post and dash. I’d rather that any day of the week!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 4:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Justin u'd be my hero
I know you do not “post and dash” but I tried to count all your posts for the 15th and lost count after 20…(ran out of fingers and toes)…..It seems that my problem is trying to read all the posts….do a summary (usually in my head except for the one above) before I try to add my humble opinion?
It would help if we had a “Play by Play” anouncer….or better yet a “color” commentary person to do summmeries….then we could just go to their comments page and get the “Reader’s Digest version”….(condensed)
So, sorry that I post and dash but I do injoy your posts
BTT
by bravestatoo on Dec 16, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ha. kind of reminds me of the Ted
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 13, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who will be our new All Thumbs Jefferson?
by musicman on Dec 13, 2009 8:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
God…that was the worst play ever…
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 13, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. The dropped pop up against Philly was the worst.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha…nice.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is anyone else considering the extremely likely possibility that both prado and kj suck in the grand scheme of things and neither will be an everyday player in 2 or 3 years?
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 13, 2009 9:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
just to clarify
I feel like we’re arguing about dumping a pinto for a pacer…it’s not like either is a rolls royce…
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 13, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FTW
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody is arguing that KJ is a Hall of Famer. But he is an above-average 2B. That’s nothing to scoff at.
by eaheckman10 on Dec 13, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re undervaluing the woman in the passenger seat of the pinto
by acie4mvp on Dec 13, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 billion
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prado has just put up a .311/ .364/ .463 over the last two seasons (encompassing 678 AB). These are big time production numbers that put him easily in the top 10% statistically of all MLB players during the same time period. And he is only 26 years of age.
So what exactly makes you think he sucks and it is extremely likely he will not be an everyday player in 2 or 3 years.
Assuming he stays healthy, I would say the probablity is he will continue to be a productive major league hitter into his 30s and demand a regular position in some team’s batting order.
by fandave on Dec 13, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason i still dont trust his SLG…he never showed that in the minors and im leary that once he gets more ABs pitchers will negate that and he then slips into league avg. Im not advocating KJ, i dont care…
but i think thats the big knock on Prado, if the SLG isnt real, we are stuck with an avg hitter and a slightly below avg 2B defensively (depending on what you think of his stats at 2B). which still isnt that bad for 400k.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems silly to knock him based on speculation and conjecture. The reality is his production has been what its been.
Similarly, looking backwards at distant minor league numbers is ususally not very impressive to me. Why? Lots of reasons, including that some players simply mature, physically and as athletes, somewhat late – say, at 23 or 24 years of age, rather than at 20 or 21.
This can be and is a function of genetics, but can also have to do with nutrition and training techniques, for example, as well as psychological and/or psycho-social issues, all of which can particularly important factors for foreign players being displaced into the U.S. out of impoverished third world countries.
by fandave on Dec 13, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i realize that certain people are late bloomers…and i wouldnt consider it speculation and conjecture…it was 2-3 years ago he was in the minors and slugging int he high 300s…how did he all the sudden with in 08 go to 450s…(this is not a steroid accusation, for u conspiracy theorists).
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 14, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What’s the point of being a fan if you can’t argue passionately over things that are ultimately meaningless?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i suppose thats a good point
and i actually was a passionate arguer in the beginning…6 months ago…
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 13, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm embarassed for a guy
named “big joe”
either you’re fat or you think you have a big $#$%. either way, i don’t respect you if you don’t respect people’s right to talk shit on a fan website.
whatever the case is, i’m betting you’re fat and you have a small $#$%.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 13, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and i bet
you are not much older than 12.
by JasonHeywardisGod on Dec 13, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand, we’re seeing why I’m embarrassed
by bigjoe on Dec 13, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
boom goes the dynamite
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Because if anyone dares disagree with your views on Kelly Johnson, they are an embarassment
Get a clue
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not what I was referring to at all. The venom people are spitting about this shit is absolutely ridiculous. Theres a reason every thread results in dick waggling and name calling.
by bigjoe on Dec 13, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As well as people saying that they are embarrassed for others
Thanks for contributing hero
by Skyagusta on Dec 13, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...this is usually the time when i leave tc
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 13, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think everyone on here forgets that these are just fan opinions on Talking Chop. I could walk into a store and be standing right next to bigjoe, ATLand UNC and Skyagusta and have absolutely no idea who you guys were. Who cares if bigjoe feels emberassed by the posters on here. It’s not like he’s gonna fire you from your job or fight you in an alley. If he wants to be emberassed, let him be emberassed. And don’t say stuff like you have a little dick or are fat…that’s just stupid. We could visit a local middle school if we wanted to hear stuff like that.
Everyone needs to just calm down. Again, I’m pretty sure Frank Wren, Bobby Cox and Co. don’t give 2 shits about any of our opinions. We’re all just fans of the Braves. Yeah, we’re gonna disagree, but don’t call someone out or get in a keyboard fight with them for disagreeing with you.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 13, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and i bet
that if you think Heyward is God, i’m betting you’ve go SERIOUS issues that can’t be reconciled with internet fan sites.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 13, 2009 3:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
or
its a joke and you take things too SERIOUS for internet fan site, get a clue.
by JasonHeywardisGod on Dec 13, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
again with the proving you're 12...
we get it already.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Help!
This thread is growing faster than the universe!
by Bronn on Dec 13, 2009 4:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Over 400 comments and no mention of Nitram Odarp, lame.
by blitzerlover on Dec 13, 2009 4:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And now for something completely different....
How bout that @ss magnet, Tiger Woods?
"My God! Good news fans, the Braves are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact, they appear to be beating the crap out of each other."
by bravos1984 on Dec 13, 2009 5:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is one case where Derek Jeter is the perfect example. If you’re that huge of a sports icon, don’t get married!
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh hell yeah
there’s just too much temptation. you’re always in nice hotels, in nice cities, with pretty women and lots of cash. it’s a perfect recipie for cheating.
dont know why TWoods would cheat on his wife tho. Shes fucking HOT.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 13, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i always thought she was overrated
tho i dont like blonds
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 13, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I’d never really paid attention to her cause I never realized how gorgeous she is until I saw the cover of some magazine the other day. But still, shouldn’t have married her, or anyone.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you know cb,...
she has a twin sister.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stop talking about my wife.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 13, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great, now I’m aware of one more woman who has absolutely no interest in dating me.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's just cause she hasn't met you my friend.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right. She hasn’t met me, so she doesn’t know I exist. Once she does though, no chance.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 13, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice way of looking at it...
got a nice chuckle out of me.
And I don’t know if I’d say no chance, maybe one in a million.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So your sayin there’s a chance.
braves#1
by rockybull on Dec 14, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute...
what was all that “one in a million” talk?
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Dec 14, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because she's never around?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I could have 1 billion in earnings from playing GOLF and have hot women throwing themselves at me…
yeha i’d be ok with that
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 5:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i just never would have married, as CB mentions
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 13, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Group Hug
If I were at the bar with any of you, I would gladly sit down and have a drink with you.
But if justrincredibul were there, I would probably have the bartender give him some cheap American light beer just to be fair. Busch light maybe?
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 8:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Google Search: "Busch light"
No results were found. Did you mean tastes like horse piss?
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 13, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool.
I love that you let a disagreement over a couple of Braves’ players get to you.
For what it’s worth, I have never insulted anyone nor have I stooped to name-calling or any of that other childish crap. I state facts and argue only facts and numbers.
But, if you want to make it personal, I am not going to discuss it any further.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think ATLandUNC might’ve been joking. Im not sure tho..
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 13, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you really just take a sarcastic comment about buying you a busch light seriously? I mean, I know its a shitty beer, but come on.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you forgot to hit the sarcastic font
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
next time i will remember my comic sans
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gondeee really needs to get on that
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 13, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It really is bringing down the level of discourse around here...
I blame justin. Gondee is just an innocent bystander under the spell of his nefarious trickery.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I did. My apologies.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I will have a Guiness…
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Dec 14, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
aint that the truth.
I started with a ton of crappy light beer in my first years of college, but have since transitioned to Yuengling lager and other dark beers. It’s not anything fancy, but being from Pennsylvania its almost a requirement.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 8:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
good lord, I have reply failed about 7 times in this thread. I’m still not used to my new laptop’s buttons. I swear I click reply every time.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha it's cool
out in Arizona, it’s pretty much your basic American beers and then the Mexican beers like Corona and Dos Equis that are popular. The darker and heavier beers arent too big out here
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 13, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yuengling originated in South Carolina....
reverse carpet baggers.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
blasphemy
men have been hanged for less
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I coulda swore I'd seen on a bottle...
how it began in Charleston, and now I can’t find it. Damn internets and frazzled memory.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pottsville, Pa 1829
Its the oldest brewery in the United States
Other than the Declaration of Independence, it is Pennsylvania’s greatest contribution to society.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there is a yeungling brewers in tampa as well now
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 14, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
most of sc didnt even have it for years
before i went to college, we didnt have it in greenville
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 14, 2009 6:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ehh, I stay away from the Mexican piss water. The last time I drank Corona I ended up hooking up with my now ex girlfriend for the first time. Nothing good came from that. haha
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 9:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
facepalm
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Dec 13, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hahah thata boy!
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 13, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are we gonna hit 500 comments?
Only 14 more…
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 14, 2009 1:44 AM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
12
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 14, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
8
we had some stragglers mess up the countdown. The Final Countdown.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 14, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
does it really count if you force it?
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Dec 14, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats what she said
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Dec 14, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dammit, you wasted a perfectly good 500th comment there!
oh, and this post is #499….so someone make the 500th good!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 14, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone with an ESPN Insider account....
Can someone relay what Keith Law said about KJ and Langerhans? I’m curious to hear his predictably pessimistic opinion.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 14, 2009 4:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Here’s what he said about KJ:
Kelly Johnson, 2B, Atlanta Braves: It seemed that Atlanta was waiting for Johnson to lose the second-base job even when he hit well in 2007 and adequately in 2008; in early 2009 he struggled badly enough that they finally took the job away, meaning he never had a chance to recover. He received just 83 plate appearances after the All-Star Break, although he hit well in the tiny sample. Johnson’s main problem is that he’s never been even average at second base and might be better suited to left field, where his bat probably doesn’t make him a regular, although if he returns to his 2007 form it would. Certainly worth a gamble given his patience, average power, and youth, as he’ll play 2010 at age 28.
and here is his take on Ryan:
Ryan Langerhans and Gabe Gross, OFs: Both Langerhans and Gross are useful role players who struggled in 2009 — Langerhans in limited duty and Gross in (perhaps) too much duty. Both are left-handed hitters who can play corner outfield spots very well; Gross has never hit left-handed pitching well, while Langerhans works the count against all pitchers but doesn’t make enough contact to play every day. I’d have interest in either guy for a final bench spot.
He is actually optimistic about both, which ironically, makes you the pessimist in this one.
: )
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 14, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected. Thanks J-dubs.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 15, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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