Braves at the Winter Meetings... Wha' Happened?
by gondeee on Dec 10, 2009 6:02 PM EST
140 comments
It was such a tumultuous few days, some of us may have forgotten what exactly the Braves did and got out of baseball's Winter Meetings. Here's a recap:
- Rumors coming into the meetings had Rafael Soriano "leaning" towards accepting the Braves offer of salary arbitration, instead of declining like he should and netting the Braves 2 draft picks.
- Those rumors increased once folks got to Indianapolis.
- We had a fun first-day rumor about Yankees reliever Brian Bruney possibly heading to the Braves, but he ended up going to the Nats.
- The Braves had interest in Nats outfielder Josh Willingham, but the Nats weren't willing to part with him.
- There has been a lot of interest on the trade front in Braves second baseman Kelly Johnson, but nothing else was mentioned after that first day.
- After a night of sheer agony and waiting, Soriano finally set the rumors right and accepted arbitration from the Braves.
- Because of that decision, the Braves had to DFA Ryan Church, whom they still have not traded (nor likely will).
- Like clockwork, Soriano's agent asks the Braves for a trade, thusly skirting the free agent compensation system.
- There was some rumored interest by the Braves in free agent Xavier Nady.
- But the trading of surplus pitching dollars was top priority over anything else, and our Meeting's were seemingly put on hold until the Soriano situation could be resolved.
- Finally, in the middle of the night, we learned that Rafael had been moved to the Rays for a mighty return of... Jesse Chavez.
- As if the Braves had not been slighted enough during the meetings, they lost promising lefty Edgar Osuna in the Rule 5 draft to none other than the Royals.
The Soriano trade is not yet official, the two sides are apparently awaiting the medical files or pending physicals to consummate the deal. Tampa Bay got a steal of a closer for next season at a reasonable $7 million-plus. A condition of the deal was that the Rays agree in principal to sign Soriano before the deal was complete.
The good news for the Braves is that we apparently don't have to send any money to the Rays, and thus the whole Soriano Surprise was just an unpleasant distraction that netted us a durable middle reliever for our bullpen next year. Jesse Chavez won't blow anyone's socks off, but in a pen where Cox likes to run people out there day after day, Chavez seems to be a guy that can be abused in that way. He's also a childhood friend of Jo-Jo Reyes, and was good friends with Nate McLouth when they were teammates with the Pirates.
The Soriano Surprise may have been a sour point for some fans, but the original thinking was that the team would not offer him arbitration, and it was only a few days before the deadline that we learned they would. Wren knew the risks, and instead of not offering him arbitration and ending up with nothing, they rolled the dice and ended up with a serviceable and affordable major league middle reliever. As weird as that is, I'd call it a win. Especially since we likely needed another middle bullpen guy like Chavez anyway.
Osuna was not a huge loss in the Rule 5, and the Braves usually do one of the best jobs of any organization of scouting their own players, so while he has talent, the Braves obviously thought more of some of the other guys they protected.
We have to believe that the main goal accomplished at the Meetings for the Braves was to lay the groundwork for a future trade of Derek Lowe. They should know the full market by now, and whether they need to wait until after Lackey signs or not. Hopefully we'll see some movement on one of those fronts soon, and hopefully he can bring back some sort of more valuable return than a Jesse Chavez, though to clear payroll, I may be willing to accept such a return if it means we can sign a bat.
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Not at 4x$16.5mill like the Mets supposedly offered. Wow, that’s high — I expected Holliday would be in that range.
i think i'd pay that
for Holliday. I’d probably go to 18 a year.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 11, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
there has been absolutely nothing published about us going or not going after Holiday
I think it’s just a waste to discuss getting him.
If our FO thought we could afford the $100+ million dollars he’s going to command, we would’ve kept Tex and at least tried to resign him.
In Frank Wren I trust.
you think that Wren's
going to let something like that get published?
honestly? after last off-seasons fiascoes, you really think he’s going to play his hand. Soriano = salary dump. Lowe = will be a salary dump “even if the Braves have to eat some salary” (which was published). GA off the books. Gonzo off the books. Church, and by extension Frenchy, off the books. Why on Earth is Wren clearing up so much payroll when Liberty is actually EXPANDING the payroll?
Who is he going after? A Starter? No. Cameron? maybe, but that’s a last resort and he won’t sign until January or February. We got 2 relievers, but their costs have already been absorbed. We will have almost 18-20 million to spend.
Again, I ask, who is he going after? A LF who can’t field? Highly unlikely as the Braves value defense as well. By logical extension, it’s got to be Holliday OR a trade for a guy we’re going to lock up long term (A-Gon…but that would require Freeman, Schafer, 1 of our younger/projectible pitchers and probably Medlen and that still doesn’t get it done). It could be a combination of guys like DeRosa and Cameron, but that would, honestly, be a relative mistake. but i’ll wait and see.
I think it’s Holliday and it’s very hush hush.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 11, 2009 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
I find it highly unlikely that we are going after Holliday.
For starters, I haven’t read anything about payroll expanding. My understanding is that it will remain about the same. Second, we will have to pay for a first baseman, acquired either through trade or free agency; if they don’t suck, they’ll cost significant money. After that, getting an outfielder is a luxury. My guess is that the salary clearance (Soriano and Lowe) will free up $15-18 million that will be split between a first baseman and an outfielder. That puts us a second tier outfielder level—-and I sure hope it is Cameron and not overpaying for Byrd.
My understanding is that it [payroll] will remain about the same.
Is this a guess, do you have inside intel or can you provide a link to some reputable source?
Liberty Mutual seems to be doing well financially and to be a highly entrepenurial, wheeling and dealing business. Although publicly traded, it is effectively under the control of its Chairman, John C. Malone, who has been dubbed “Darth Vader” for his toughness in deal-making.
My thought is Malone is just the kinda guy who would make a big move to win a championship and would manuveer way under the radar to try to put all the pieces in place. Ergo, if the coffers were opened, it could be a top secret and we would not know it until very late in the game.
It's just a guess...
…based upon the lack of hearing anything to the contrary. I’d love for us to open up the wallet and grab Holliday, but I haven’t heard anything indicating that this will happen. Hell, I’d be happy if we opened up the wallet enough to sign LaRoche and Cameron. I am easy to please. ;)
we did try...
we just failed miserably because the Yankees were offering significantly more than anyone else.
IIRC, we offered him somewhere in the neighborhood of $18M/season for 4 seasons – not a bad offer at all!
I can’t wait for the day when there is a maximum salary, like in the NBA.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
Correct me if I am wrong, but when we were dealing with Tex, Liberty Media were not the owners.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
Right, but it wasn’t finalized for like a year or two, right?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Only the Pirates and Royals both wish they were the Braves.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 10, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone else think that Wolf, Penny, and Harden signing such big contracts will help us to move DLowe easier?
I mean, for goodness sake, any team willing to spend 10MM per on Randy Wolf would likely spend at least that much on DLowe
It indicates there is a market for serviceable veteran starting pitchers.
I’d be surprised if Wren can’t get close to a full salary dump of Lowe (80% or more) with 1-2 mid-level prospects or a Major League ready player coming back
I think it helps, but we still need to wait...
…for Lackey to sign. Once he signs, with the second tier guys already signing (for significant money), Lowe will have suitors. I think we’ll be able to move almost all of his salary if we get something like Chavez (i.e. straight salary dump) in return. If we eat 20% of the money, we should get a decent return as you suggest. Depending on the possible return, either doing the pure salary dump or eating some contract might be the smarter thing to do.
Once Lackey is done, although Halladay is still on the board, Lowe should be next to happen, if it will happen.
Honestly, at this point, I am not even considering Halladay as an available player. I don’t think anyone is going to pony up what Tor is asking.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Unless Toronto significantly...
…lowers its asking price, you are correct, Halladay is going nowhere. They want a huge return and they just aren’t going to get it.
I know the Phils are really pushing to get him, and might even include Hammels in a deal. If that goes thru, I will not be amused….
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Dec 11, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I would be quite happy with that.
The Phillies are not a player for Lowe, so taking Halladay off the board to them helps us to move Lowe. Furthermore, given the Blue Jays’s demands, the Phillies will have to overpay to get him. If they want to make a bad move, let them—-especially since it helps us move Lowe, which helps us free up the salary to improve ourselves.
Halladay for 1 season in the NLE is worth Philly selling its sould to the devil for the next 5-7 years.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Why?
Halladay is great, no objection. But we can run KK out to kick his ass when he faces us. ;) Honestly, the Phils are scary good and if they want to waste the farm for one year, I am happy with the wild card and the crap shoot of an NLCS against them. If they keep that talent, they are scary good for the next five years; Brown and to a lesser extent Taylor will be monsters.
You are arguing my point to me…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
Sori deal not completely done yet
No Soriano-to-Rays trade announcement until Fri. Docs didn’t have time to sign off on med info.
I’m assured that it’s nothing that threatens the trade, just a matter of docs in surgeries today, not able to review all on short notice.
-DOB tweet
where are you now J-Freak?!?
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
bats?
Are there any bats out there that are worth the money we are saving by trading Soriano and Lowe (if it gets done), or will we be overpaying for mediocre players?
guillen
the tigers are looking to acquire juan pierre from the dodgers but need a 3 way trade partner.. what about lowe to the dodgers, pierre to the tigers, and carlos guillen to the braves?
Interesting Deal but I still think that we are selling to Low on Lowe no fun intended, lol.
Lowe is still a great pitcher and one that will help any team that he goes to. Really if we didn’t resign Huddy we wouldn’t even be having this conversation about trading Lowe. The real fact of the matter is however that we overpaided to get D. Lowe and the Braves want a true power bat in return however their are simply none to be had at least for D. Lowe str8 up.
Our needs left:
1B/OF: We are looking for a guy that can play 1B and a little LF; I just don’t think Roachy is on the Braves radar anymore and we are banking on Heyward having a huge rookie season in 2010.
Who do we get hmm I have no clue; Swisher is not available, Nady could be a late free agent signing such as what the braves did with G. Anderson last season right before spring training.
So Lowe needs to go, Vaquez needs a contract extentsion, and lastly we need to figure out what to do with 1B and we are set.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 10, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
The best part of that situation is that if Lackey signs with the Yanks, the Angels become a favorite to land D Lowe.
I think I would rather trade with them than NY. I think the Angels have more to offer – like Lowe +$3-5M for Rivera or maybe Lowe +$3-5M + good prospect for Morales.
I can dream, right?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
Mr Sanchez...
Do the Yankees really need Lowe? Seems to me they have 3 proven quality starters, Jabba/Hughes and the guy they got from the Padres last year as a number 5, not to mention Wong. I think its the Mets who would be a far better fit for the rotation. Just a suggestion here… what about Lowe for a Flores type? Wasnt it theMets who offered him 14million last year?
by mikie baseball on Dec 11, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Jobba and Hughes suck as starters. Wang may be DFAd (rumors say that anyway), and he is coming off a season in which he was sent to the minors.
So yes, beyond CC and Burnett (injury questions themselves), the Yanks are in desperate need of SP.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Chien Ming Wang is a supposed non tender candidate...
and not ready on opening day even if he isn’t. Joba and Hughes both failed as starters, why they keep trying to do the same thing even though it clearly produces poor results is beyond me. Petite, Sabathia, and Burnett are strong, but Burnett has his inconsistencies, Sabathia has a lot of wear and tear on that arm even though he seems pretty healthy, and who knows when Petite’s age catches up to him. Plus, the Yankees are not afraid to spend money, and never have. So if Lowe is a 4th starter, I don’t think they’d really care if they feel he helps them win a World Series. I know I’d personally feel a LOT more comfortable with Lowe in my rotation than Joba, Hughes, Gaudin, or Wang.
I think Hughes is definitely in the rotation.
My understanding is that barring a surprise, the rotation would be Sabathia, Burnett, Pettite, Hughes, and Gaudin or a pick-up. While Hughes was not great the first time as a starter he is young and has great stuff, and it would be very premature to give up on him being a starter. The Yankees are smart to give him another shot. So, basically, the Yankees need a fifth starter upgrade on Gaudin at most. Being the Yankees, however, they could sign Lackey for that purpose, lol.
And Lackey is such a better 5th starter than Lowe?...
And from all I’ve read, which admittedly isn’t all that much, Joba is a starter too. Someone has to set up, and assume Gaudin would be in the bullpen/emergency starter.
That's the $45 million question.
Is Lackey that much better than Lowe. Lackey is a free agent and costs a first round pick. Taking on Lowe’s full salary means a team can probably get him than less than a first round pick. Lackey is perceived to be better, but will require a longer commitment in years and bigger commitment in moeny. A smart team doing the math should probably just grab Lowe for free. The Angels need to step up to the plate here—-trade for Lowe for more or less free, get an almost as good pitcher (if not as good) for a lesser commitment—-and get the two picks for Lackey signing elsewhere.
When did Lackey become a good pitcher???
That’s what I can’t figure out this offseason.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
he's won World Series games...
that did it. I like his resume better than other 8 figure pitchers Ryan Dempster, AJ Burnett, Bronson Arroyo, Kyle Lohse, etc.
Have you read somewhere that Joba will be in the bullpen or are you just assuming that?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
No I don't know Joba is in the pen...
…but they are rumored to be in for other starters, and if they get one, he’s the obvious guy to move.
Mr. Sanchez...
I see your points clearly. Having said that , they are far from desperate.As far as Joba and Hughes being failures as starters at he tender ages of 24 and 25, well I think that is a bit of an overstatement, as either of them would bring back talent in return from most other teams. The Yankees were desperate going into 2009 for starting pitching ,not 2010. Lowe would be only a luxury for them.
by mikie baseball on Dec 12, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
I would take Guillen
He can play first base can’t he ?
Really I guess if we could get Gullien I would be happy with that just to dump the D. Lowe contract so we could move on as a team and have money to look a bigger bat ? Maybe bring back LaRoache, bring in Nady, etc….. Right now we are simply out of money.
Hey what about KJ, Braves have until this Sat to decide to tender him or not ? I would like to see the Braves trade him and D. Lowe in a package deal.
Cards:
Get D. Lowe and KJ
Braves get:
Ludwick any takers but unlikely to happen since Cards have added Penny for pitching depth.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 10, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
That is way too much to give up for Ludwick. KJ alone would be too much.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 10, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
He has played a total of 70 games at first over his career
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S. Thompson
by mad_dog_maddux on Dec 11, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports says the Tigers have interest in Juan Pierre, and are “looking for a third team to supply the pitcher L.A. needs.” Odd, since the Tigers have more bad pitching contracts than anyone. The Tigers apparently prefer to unload Carlos Guillen. from MLBTR
Hmm, interesting.......
" If you're going to be accused of something, being accused of being a nice guy is not the worst thing to be accused of."
Mark Richt (November 3, 2009)
Could be OK, as long as Guillen is cheap and healthy.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
It says...
Guillen is owed 13 mill. for 2010 and 2011….
by jeremy_legros on Dec 10, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Right, I’d imagine the Tigers would have to eat a fair amount of that to make it interesting to Wren Of course, given their budget troubles right now, that’s unlikely.
Therefore, no Guillen.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
“The rumored deal would essentially be a swap of three bad contracts with Guillen going to the third team.” .287 career hitter and never more than 21 homers. Not cheap, and wasn’t healthy last year!
See above re cheap. Re healthy, he had shoulder problems all year, but seemed healthy by year-end (back to switch-hitting). If his shoulder checks out, and we are going to play him at 1B, he’s got a decent bat for $14M/2, I believe.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Javy is to Yunel what Yoda is to Luke
Unleash the force. 2010.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 10, 2009 10:40 PM EST reply actions
Wu ha' happen wuz
we got killed. Wren gets a big fat C- from me for these winter meetings. Jesse FUCKING Chavez!??!
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
Better than N-f-ing-nothing!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 10, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily
Now we’ve got another nobody taking up space. I’d probably have responded more favorably to a PTBNL. Just get him off the books and sort out the fallout later, rather than taking the only piece they’ll throw at you right now, and that PTBNL might actually be worth something, unlike the return we actually got.
In Wren I trust.
Over the past few years, how many times have we said “We traded him for WHO???”
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
not many...
other than the Renteria deal, most of what Wren has traded for were major league players—Kotch, Vasquez, McLouth.
Re: Vaz – I remember many people wondering why Wren traded our top offensive prospect at the time for a career “loser with a 4+ ERA.”
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
THIS THIS THIS THIS
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S. Thompson
by mad_dog_maddux on Dec 11, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Those people are stupid.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 11, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
If anybody thought Flowers was our top offensive prospect they were stupid.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I agree completely, but you know as well as I do that some people here around this time last year were crazy.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
so by all means, ...
let’s put stock in the words of people who clearly don’t know what the hell they are talking about. Because as we all know, KJ = BJ.
LOL
KJ=BJ is classic. Did we ever crack that code?
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 11, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I thought it meant Kite Jobs equal Bike Jobs
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
which is ridiculous becuase bike repair is ont he rise with the high cost of oil…where kites have never been a reasonable form of transportation and the low cost of a kite doesn not necessitate a repair.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
I got it...
King James = Brandon Jennings. He was giving us his prediction for NBA Rookie of the Year. Personally I think Tyreke Evans will take it with a big push at the end as the Bucks struggle down the stretch.
Fuck you.
sry… that gotta outta hand….I am from Mil… and havent cared about the Bucks since 2001 when the refs decided the 76ers should be in the playoffs (ya i played that card)….and i finally care again, bc Brandon Jennings intrigues me. So he is my new favorite player and tyreke evans went to Memphis so i hate him.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
haha
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 12, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
I still cant believe
I stayed up late last night to see we were getting Jessie Chavez for Soriano. Total bullshit.
Kind of a boring Winter Meetings outside of the Soriano thing…weak rumors about KJ and Willingham, something about some Yankees reliever we didn’t get, a few teams are “interested” in DLowe, Xavier Nady wants to play for us…and that’s about it. Oh, and the Royals continue to be a AAAA affiliate for us.
In Frank Wren I trust.
Why is everyone complaining
Wren clearly said that a bat was not coming through trade, but free agency. All of the talk on here about the braves getting pena, upton, or crawford was wishful thinking. with the soriano deal we get 7 mill+ off the books and a potentially decent middle reliever for 400k and under team control for 5 years. now we go trade lowe in a similar salary dump and have 20 mill+ to spend on any desired free agents for 1b, of, and a bench bat
Wren actually said they were focusing on trades and then free agency
And I never said we were gonna get Crawford, Upton, or whoever else is on the Rays — well, I said “EVAN LONGORIA!”, but it was a joke — but we should’ve gotten more than Jessie Chavez for Raffy.
In Frank Wren I trust.
Yes, that's what he said.
Which pretty obviously meant—-dump salary first, then spend the money. If we were filling our needs through trades, we wouldn’t need to deal with the free agents afterwards.
yeah, trades to clear up salary so we can sign a bat(s) through free agency….. “We’ve felt for a while now that it is unlikely that we could get the hitter that we want through the trade market,” Wren said while once again providing indication that he intends to fill his needs for a first baseman and outfielder via available free agents.
Do you have a link to that quote?? I’ve been busy lately and havent been on the net too much. I’d like to see what else he said.
And if FW really is trying to fill his needs thru the FA market, he’s doing it very quietly. Both DOB and Bowman have their doubts about us bringing back Roachy. We’ve said we aren’t going after Holiday or Bay, and even though we said the same about DLowe in 08, it’s hard to believe we’re gonna win a bidding war against the Skanks, Muts, Sox, etc.
And if our only “impact bat” is a guy like Xavier Nady or Mike Cameron, we might as well save our money and let MattyD and Heyward play every day.
In Frank Wren I trust.
The interesting thing is
If you have been following MLBTR closely like I have the last few weeks, one of the least talked about at least semi-major offensive players is LaRoche. The only rumors lately have been a second thought in an article about how this team or that team has not had interst in LaRoche. It may be shapping up that there isn’t that much of a market for LaRoche or that the Braves have something in place for him already but are just waiting to clear some money by dealing Lowe. Who knows?
Maybe cause he’s garbage in the first half of the season?
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 11, 2009 12:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, the weird thing is if we get rid of lowe’s salary without taking on anything it seems like we are going to have a lot of money with no good FA’s to spend it on. With the recent talk of us getting someone to play 1b and a little OF makes it seem like the only options are nady and derosa… also, because we are now saying we are looking at a 1b that can play outfield it really seems like heyward might start the year in the outfield
Yeah, that comment bothered me.
The 1B and OF. Not because I disagree with guys like that in principal, it’s just that the guys who are 1B/OF out there on the market now are not the best guys out there. Nady and DeRosa are just not that good. DeRosa has nice versatility, but the money he is seeking is well beyond what makes sense for his abilities. I am still hoping for Delgado/LaRoche/Glaus? and Cameron, but I am not confident.
.250/.336/.447/.784 23HR/162G in the first half isn’t exactly garbage. Its certainly not optimal for a firstbasemen but is it worth gutting it out for a .311/.377/.538/.915 30HR/162G second half? He also plays good defense (ie he can pick it with the best of them) and he fits very well in the clubhouse which has some amount of value.
Bringing him in on a two year deal would be just about the best thing we could do at 1B all things considered (prospects and financial investment to bring in something better)
I appologize to Adam
I had no idea his numbers in the first half are what they are. I just remember the miserable first few months he used to have with us, but I guess his numbers aren’t all that bad.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 11, 2009 1:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah...
but that was pre-Ridilin days.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 11, 2009 2:00 AM EST up reply actions
He’s never been a black hole in the first half. He hasn’t lived up to his ceiling in those months to be sure, but the fact that he hits ~.310-.320 with a ton of power in the second half makes his first half look like dogcrap in comparison. He’s more than passable in the first half, he just tends to set the world on fire in the second half.
Thanks for the specific splits.
Is it true that the big 2d half surge has been an every single year thing? Any exceptions (e.g., a year where the 1st and 2d #s were even close)?
I think 2005 was the only exception.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
we might as well save save our money and let MattyD and Heyward play every day.
This is perhaps the very best option. One great reason is it sets us up to be able to pull off a mid-season heist of hopefully monumental proportions.
I’d rather have a stop-gap of sorts with someone who you know what you are going to get out of them rather than Heyward right out of the gates.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
and I expect that is exactly what will happen. it is the safest, lowest risk option. but it would also very possibly tie our hands and limit our upside potential to really improve the club for the longterm at some later date – like July or August.
That depends. If Schafer or (more likely) Heyward prove their MLB worth, then that makes whomever we sign plus Diaz or possibly even McLouth expendable. Many teams would be interested, and it could possibly land us something to improve the club in July or August.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
swisher
If the Yankees sign Damon they will have asurplus of outfielders to were i couldsee swisher coming here but he still isnt a number 4 hitter .
F*ck swisher
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 11, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, what could we possible want with a cheaply-signed 3 WAR bat who can play OF or 1B?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
F HIM AND HIS FAMILY !!
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
LOL. I barely remember this meme. Was it a Tommy G slam when he complained about something?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
No, he was pissed about Hampton leaving, which was dumb at the time but even dumber now.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
haha
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 12, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
There is nothing wrong with
starting Heyward in the major leagues. People are scared to do this because of what happened with Schafer. Two things to keep in mind here… Heyward is the #1 prospect in ALL OF BASEBALL. Accolades like that are not just handed out. Schafer was not as highly regarded of a prospect and was playing through a wrist injury. He will be very good. An outfield of Heyward/McClouth/Diaz would be great. Heyward will win ROY. Now go out and spend on a great 1B for the future. Spend money or prospects. the reality of the situation is that chipper is declining and wont be around much longer. We need a proven superstar. If we can get Bay or Holliday then do it and heyward can platoon with Diaz until he emerges. But ideally…build a package around freeman and deal for A. gonzalez and lock him up long term… superstar of the future with heyward/hanson/jurrjens developing into superstars to create our next dynasty
I doubt the Braves bring Heyward up until June b/c of his arb clock.
P.S. As for #1 prospects in ALL OF BASEBALL, please see Marte, Andy.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Was Marte ever that highly regarded?...
he was a top prospect for us, but for all of baseball?
And if we are planning on signing Heyward to a long extension, ala Evan Longoria or Brian McCann, the arb clock doesn’t matter.
Yeah it does matter.
When the extensions are signed, both sides know which years (the free years, the arbitration years, and the free agent years) are being bought out by the contract. The terms of the contract are negotiated on that basis. So, alas, it does matter. That being said, if he is ready and tears up spring training, we’ll bring him up and be better for it—-remember that games in April count as much as games in September. Fortunately, we are a medium market club and don’t absolutely have to be cheap about calling up prospects.
MARTE
was #9 in ’05… number one was the AL mvp in joe mauer and #2 was the runner up in AL CY young voting Felix hernandez… thanks for helping me prove my point
I guess it depends on who’s #1 you go by. Sickels had Marte as his 2005 #1.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Sickels....
…in his big league with other big boys….bid $19 on Nick Punto in 2008. ’Nough said.
You could say that about anyone. I find Sickels to be pretty balanced. He also gives very extensive explanations of his rankings, which I find to be more valuable than simply rankings by themselves.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
my only problem with Sickels is that he values results more than upside sometimes… mostly in reference to the younger guys. He doesnt give enough credit to high upside guys in the low minors (but i understnad his reasoning for that).
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
If you want a proven superstar, you need look no further than McCann and soon to be, Escobar.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
mccann
is a proven star, but not superstar… he is what joe johnson has been to the hawks… our best offensive player but will never lead us to a championship… i love mccann and he is great but when was the last time a catcher led a team to a world series title…
McCann isn’t our best offensive player either…so, I don’t really know where to go with this.
I know this much: Before 2009, would you have considered A-Rod a superstar? How ’bout Bonds or McGwire? Maybe Dale Murphy? Then there is always Lance Berkman, Matt Holliday, Joe Mauer, etc.
Superstar is not defined by if a player can lead a team to a WS or not.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
if mccann isnt our best offensive player
then who is… and ok superstar isnt always defined by WS but it plays a part…what i am saying is that despite having maybe the best pitching in the world, we arent gonna win a world series with the lineup we have right now and mike cameron and adam laroche isnt gonna turn it into that.. we need either a legit 3 hole hitter or a legit clean up hitter… right now we have neither
for example
people always hated on a-rod before this year for never winning a title
I disagree completely.
With the defense and offense LaRoche and Cameron provide, plus the kids coming up (i.e. Heyward), yeah, I would be gung-ho about us going into the season with that line-up. You think a big bat wins titles, but remember, in crucial situations, they will be walked. Having a balanced lineup, great pitching, and good defense wins championships. Unless you are the Yankees and can load the lineup with all great hitters. Then, well, what can you do?
I honestly can’t remember the last time a “Big Bat” won a World Series title…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
Barry Bonds came really close in 02 . Manny in 04. then youd probably have to go to 93 with Molitor… tons of offensive guys have won but i dont know if they are considered big bats (i dont know if Molitor is either, but i wanted to put him on the list)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
I should have rephrased that….I can’t remember the last time a World Series was won because of a Big Bat.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 13, 2009 4:43 AM EST up reply actions
Chipper is easily our best offensive player, and a legit 3 hole hitter.
We absolutely can win a WS with the lineup we have right now (assuming LaRoche is resigned).
Pitching wins championships.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 12, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
i think we demonstrated this past year how much we need a big stick by losing so many close, well-pitched games last year… chipper was a legit 3 hole hitter but .262 18hr and 71 rbi isnt gonna get it done in the three hole. he even admitted that if he continued to perform at that rate then he will retire
Question to the Frenchy...
lovers here…. I wonder what the Braves might have gotten had they held on to him in 2009? I would have to think he would have had a bit more value than a Church at the meetings.In Wren, I trust as well,but maybe he should go around to al these teams looking to pay up younger talent for Halladay and offer Lowe for a part of the package they are offering in return.Anyone remember what the Braves got for a pitcher named Alexander back in the late 80’s….hmmm?
by mikie baseball on Dec 11, 2009 12:34 PM EST reply actions
Trading Frenchy was not a move made to increase our bargaining position in the Winter Meetings. It was a move made to help our team bounce back and make a playoff run.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 11, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
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