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Early November Fresh Rosterbation

Okay, gang, the current rosterbation thread has almost 300 comments in the last 11 plus days.  Enough is enough.  Given that TC Management wants to cut down on the clutter of chronic, multiple rosterbation posts and to confine it all to one centralized, frothy location, here it is.

Saw this interesting commentary that kinda goes along with the underlying what happens next theme of
chronic rosterbation and will link it for whatever it may be worth to anyone:
Atlanta Braves finding ways to compete

Personally, I am wondering if GM Frank Wren would agree with the columnist's take:

... Hudson’s return signifies that the Braves are committed to contending next season. This time last year, general manager Frank Wren had to completely overhaul the roster. Now he just has to fine-tune it.

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Last night, at the bottom of the current thread, cbwilk reiterated that thew ban on random rosterbation posts remained in full force and effect; and suggested that a new thread could be started and recommended up whenever necessary.

So, I’m taking him up on that.

I will delete this fanpost later on, if it is not recommended. Thanks.

by fandave on Nov 9, 2009 8:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

We're gonna log about 300 comments over 2 weeks...

if the last ones are any idnicator. We’ve had 2 or 3 so far, and each were about the same pace—getting above 250 comments around 10 days later.

And I agree with that comment about the roster. Last year we had signficant holes in the outfield to figure out and a mess of a rotation. Now, our rotation is settled, the OF has several competent options already, and we are really just tweaking things (leadoff, cleanuper, 1B, LF, closer are the only questions with possible answers already around).

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 9, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

with the winter meetings about to happen, the mainstream rumors and other speculation is likely about to have a big up-surge. so, again, it seemed like it was time.

by fandave on Nov 9, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and fandave,...

if the length gets to you, there is always the option to hit Z, and it will take you directly to “new” comments.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 9, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If this gets deleted it’s going to be because some truely insane stuff happens later. Glad you took my suggestion and ran with it.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 9, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Guess I’ll take the alligators back to the swamp, hide the strippers, and tell the ruthless gang of out-of-time Vikings to go home. I wouldn’t want the thread to get deleted on my account…

by J-Freak on Nov 9, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would say though cb...

it might be best if it’s not up to anyone to start a new one when things get “too long”. That way, you’ve got the old “slippery slope” to cluttering things up. One a week at most, if not one per 10-14 days, seems about the right pace to keep things clean.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 9, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It doesn’t have to be up to just anyone, someone can step up and say, “Hey, I’m the guy creating the mass rosterbation threads” and that’ll be that. Frankly, for me, it being too long isn’t troublesome, most of it is nonsense anyway and I just use the z button to navigate to the new stuff. As I’ve said, feel free to be the guy to make the new posts, I’m just the guy to make sure they stay in one place.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 9, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

lol i suppose to be a vet on here and i didn’t even know about the damn Z button til today aint that some shit lol.

braves#1

by rockybull on Nov 9, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i didn’t know that either..

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 9, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Neither did I…. Thanks!

" If you're going to be accused of something, being accused of being a nice guy is not the worst thing to be accused of."
Mark Richt (November 3, 2009)

by HEYJUDE on Nov 10, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

cb, just noticed you wrote a novel

Congrats!

" If you're going to be accused of something, being accused of being a nice guy is not the worst thing to be accused of."
Mark Richt (November 3, 2009)

by HEYJUDE on Nov 10, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you, I really appreciate it. But seriously, PLEASE BUY IT!

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 10, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Will do!

" If you're going to be accused of something, being accused of being a nice guy is not the worst thing to be accused of."
Mark Richt (November 3, 2009)

by HEYJUDE on Nov 10, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

happy to help

by fandave on Nov 9, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting proposal coming from GM meetings. Bradley to the Blue Jays, Overbay to the Mets, and Castillo to the Cubs.

by jack dein on Nov 9, 2009 6:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Why? Now that we know Omar is an idiot, it was the mets pitching staff that was so laughable. go out and fix that first, idiotic move if done

(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)

by GoBravesNY on Nov 9, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Is Buster Olney mentally retarded?

Today, for like the 8th time this off-season, Buster said he thinks the Braves and Rangers are going to work out a deal for Javy.

JAVY VAZQUEZ HAS A NO TRADE CLAUSE TO THE AL/NL WEST TEAM.

Why would Javy approve a trade to Texas? He’d have to go back to the AL, pitch in a hitters paradise, be farther away from his family and play where it’s 105 degrees and humid every single day. Not to mention the Braves could win a World Series next season. Oh, and it’s Bobby’s last season and the 2 guys have a ton of respect for eachother.

Oh, and Nelson Cruz isn’t that good.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 9, 2009 8:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don’t see what you think is so crazy about this idea.

by sgrapevine on Nov 9, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He is right...

Vazquez has the right to vetor trades to a Western team. Does anyone remember how upset he was when he got traded to the Diamondbacks?

I still am pushing for Cuddyer. He can make it work at RF or 1B. The Twins have picked up a comparable offensive player in Hardy (ok…not exactly the same but when he is right he is a good offensive SS and the Twins got him for a steal if they only had to give up Gomez!) who can come in and hit 5th or 6th for the Twins if needed. The real problem for the Twins was pitching. If you could find away to move Lowe (even if you paid the different between the two salaries) or even KK…I think it could be a win/win of sorts. The Twins really needed some SP this year.

by calbers on Nov 9, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Javy doesn’t want to play for any of the Western teams b/c it makes him live far away from his family. When Javy signed his last contract, he pretty much demanded a no trade clause to the AL/NL West teams. Why would he demand a no trade clause to only 9 teams? He obviously doesn’t wanna play on the West coast. As calbers said, Javy was very upset when he came to the DBacks.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 9, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Forgot a sarcasm tag I guess…

I obviously see what you think is so crazy about the idea. You listed 6 pretty good reasons why he wouldn’t wanna go.

And 5 reasons I wouldn’t want to go, for that matter.

by sgrapevine on Nov 9, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh lol

yeah, im not the best at catching sarcasm over the internet. it’s funny tho, cause in person, im one of the most sarcastic people you’ll ever meet.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 9, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ok, i know its pretty unlikely, but is it even feasible for the braves to sign matt holliday without dumping lowes contract? i know he’s a boras client and heard he’s lookin for a multi-year deal in the 100 million range but if we could do it’d definatley be a free agent signing for the decade. or maybe i just have some kinda man crush on him

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 10, 2009 12:46 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

probably not

I’d love to sign Holliday, but i just cant see how we do it without getting rid of DLowe first.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 10, 2009 1:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Probably not?

more like definitely not. Holliday will be the most sought after free agent this offseason, with big bidders like the Mets, Red Sox, and Yankees possibly in the negotiations.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 10, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

An idea over at Brew Crew Ball..

http://www.brewcrewball.com/2009/11/8/1122240/vazquez-bradley

A couple of different ideas about a scenario involving Javy, a few of which I think could feasibly grow legs and start moving. The original idea was Hart + McGehee for Javy. Although Hart is clearly not the impact RH bat we need and would probably just congest our outfield even more, I do like McGehee. .301/.360/.499 in 355 ABs isnt too shabby. I think him+ a decent BP arm might be enough. Problem with that is I cant seem to see any decent BP other than Hoffman over there. This scenario would also free up 11 MM to spend on that elusive “impact bat”. Thoughts?

7/10/09-A New Dawn.

by !Vive la Francoeur! on Nov 10, 2009 1:29 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

i actually like that deal, damn i’d hate to see javy go but this solves our 3B situation of the future…but what do we do with mcgehee until chip hangs em up? but i’d rather it be for mcgehee and a prospect or two than taking on hoffmans contract…then all we’ll have left to do is sign matt holliday!!!!!

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 10, 2009 9:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't do that

I guess if you could put McGehee at 1st until Chipper retires it would help. But Hart really would clog the outfield, and isn’t an impact bat at all. Hart is also starting to get arbitration-expensive at 3.25 million in 2009. The market is so flush with quality relievers, I don’t think adding a reliever would really add enough value.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 10, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There may be an opportunity here for something bigger

San Diego is cash-poor (okay, so is Atlanta). But Adrian Gonzalez might be available.
Here’s my proposal: San Diego gets their choice of Barbaro Canizares or Freddie Freeman plus a pitching prospect (up to and maybe including Medlen) and Jordan Schaefer (who I think will have no place to play except at AAA). That would address multiple needs on both sides. AGonzalez is contracted through 2011 at no more than 5.5 mill… and is ‘Ryan Howard’ worth every penny.

by carpengui on Nov 10, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How is Canziares or Freeman a choice? Who would ever take Canizares if given that choice?

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 10, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If San Diego makes him available they are going to have a lot of offers that are better than that. Canizares has little to no value so they’re going to want Freeman. Jordan Schafer still has a lot of potential but his first season in the big leagues hurt his value. It was very obvious that he wasn’t ready. Medlen is a good player but there will be team that can offer a lot more.

by jack dein on Nov 10, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll reply to both posts...

You’re probably right that there might be more offered for AGonzalez… the trick will be whether the bodies are cheap enough — and major-league-ready enough — for the Pads to accept since the ONLY reason they would consider losing him would be for price reasons. So yes, even as I was writing that, I was also thinking about a Mack Minor or another prospect pitcher in addition. Yes, Freeman would be the obvious choice. Schaefer I still believe was hurt by being hurt, and still might be ready… but has no place in Atlanta.

In any case, I do think the Braves are in a position to offer a lot for him in a manner that other teams might not be able to match.

by carpengui on Nov 10, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Schafer has a place in Atlanta, it’s CF. When he’s ready we’ll move McLouth to LF. I hate to say it but the Red Sox have a lot of good players they could include in a package for Gonzalez.

by jack dein on Nov 10, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

While I'm still here....

…I may as well post the rest of my dreams for off-season upgrades:
1. Adrian Gonzalez (as above)
2. Dan Uggla (straight up with Kelly J. in a salary dump deal for Fla.).
3. Jermaine Dye as the off-the-bench late-innings bat. Bobby C. has always liked him.
4. Jason Heyward to roam RF.

Now there’s a big-league offense… effectively 3 new big bats. And _somebody is gonna want pitching (Dodgers?) and I really believe that the “extra” front-line pitcher (Lowe, Vazquez, whoever) can be traded to replace the pieces I’m proposing to trade away. And now I don’t even care what happens in left field — give it to Matt.

by carpengui on Nov 10, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

1. already posted about Gonzalez trade.
2. again if the Marlins make Uggla available they will get something better than Johnson.
3. Dye will get at least a part time starting role somewhere.
4. possible but maybe not till May or June.

by jack dein on Nov 10, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

seriously?

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 10, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would do that deal. Chipper is probably heading into his last productive season. He’s had a lot of injuries in the past and he’s getting older. We have no in house replacement for him, you could consider Hicks a replacement but until his bat comes around I wouldn’t.
I’m not sure what our money situation looks like down the road but Vazquez is going to want more than $11.5M per season coming off the year he had.
Hart isn’t that bad of a player. He’s still young (he’ll turn 28 at the start of next season) and he has decent power. McGehee solves our 1B issue this year and our 3B issue for the future. In 394 at bats he hit .301/.360/.499 with 16 HR’s. He doesn’t have a lot of experience at 1B just 32 games in the minors and 3 in the majors.

by jack dein on Nov 10, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

can he play 1B?

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 10, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

nevermind, i didnt read that last sentence

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 10, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

why does everybody like mcGehee here? Yes he had a very good season but he never OPS’d over .760 in the minors and played horrific defense at 3B last year (albeit SSS). If we’re trading Javy to the Brewers I want Gamel and Brett Lawrie coming back to start with

by McCann's the Man on Nov 10, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

.774 in 08 at AAA in 497 at bats, .776 in 05 at AA in 455 at bats. I don’t trust defensive metrics so I don’t use them and I’ve never seen him play so I won’t judge his defense. He should hit for a .300/.350/.500 in a full season along with 30 HR’s. Won’t be arb. eligible for 2 more years and under team control for 5 years. I doubt the Brewers would part with their 2008 1st round pick. He made AA at 19 this year.

by jack dein on Nov 10, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

McGehee’s a pretty rough defender.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 10, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not really. He’s actually quite good.

by Salty on Nov 14, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure. But not really.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 15, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ah my bad should have read .780, but still i find it hard to pencil him for an .850 major league OPS when he’s never shown that he’s capable of sustaining that production.

by McCann's the Man on Nov 10, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

yet another reason I wouldn’t take that deal…

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 11, 2009 9:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

Why not take Braun as well? How many years of Javy are we talking?

McGehee reworked his stance at the beginning of Spring training. He hit really well then also. He’s also an excellent defender.

by Salty on Nov 14, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

johnny damon in left field next year anyone? how much is he lookin for?

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 10, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

He’s a Type A free agent. For a guy who’s slugging is going to evaporate once he leave’s the Yankees’ joke of a stadium and who doesn’t have speed anymore and is a fairly awful fielder, i just don’t see there being much sense in giving up a first round pick.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 10, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure what he’s looking for but he’ll probably be back with the Yankees. Not sure I would want him though he’s been helped a lot by Yankee stadium.

by jack dein on Nov 10, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but how about Mike Cameron on a 1 year deal and move McLouth to LF? Cameron is an upgrade defensively over Nate and offensively over GA.

That kind of move also doesn’t block Schafer if/when he’s ready to come back to the show.

by Michael Scarn, FBI on Nov 10, 2009 2:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Cameron

will command more than a 1 year deal from other teams. Otherwise I would be fine with it…

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 10, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Gonzalez is my rosterbation thought

Given his production and his availability, I would give the farm outside of Heyward for him. Medlen, Schafer, Freeman, and Teheran is a pretty good package. And really good package. That sounds fun. And he is available. Depending on what SD wants, we could be players there. He is a 1B and wow he is exactly what we need. Do that, play Diaz, McLouth, and Heyward in the OF and wow, we are NL favorites in one swoop. Can you imagine that team for 2010 and 2011? We can restock the minors with drafting and other trades (move a starter for prospects or something, the Pirates still exist and we can bust them in every trade, lol). Hell, I’d throw in Minor as well. Now, that would be a package.

by cavebird on Nov 10, 2009 9:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

getting a-gong

would be too costly for the braves farm system. the braves farm system is just one more teixeira trade away from being a middle of the road farm system. when heyward graduates to the big leagues, the major-league ready talent is thin and the prospects arent terribly impressive. the braves need to hold on to what minor league depth they have and use their current major league trading chips to get someone of value.

My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.

by ryan c on Nov 10, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll trade a top tier farm system...

…and take a middle of the road one for two world championships. ;) It’s November rosterbation, so let me have my fun. ;)

by cavebird on Nov 10, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know how I feel about this trade or any others, but if you told me we had to gut the farm system but could win two straight championships (heck, maybe even just one) I think I’d take that deal. We’re not the Pirates, we can rebuild a system, winning rings is just too good to pass up.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 10, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

cb's unite!

That was my entire point! (and CaveBird is a cb) ;)

by cavebird on Nov 11, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah…I got that…

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn’t trade Teheran as part of any package

by McCann's the Man on Nov 10, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

All I am saying is...

…TINSTAAPP. He’s a guy in lo-A. If we need to use him to get a player of Adrian Gonzalez, you do it. His arm could be fried long before he makes the bigs.

by cavebird on Nov 15, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was reading at MLBTR that the Reds would like to trim payroll and may consider trading some of their stars away. One name that interested me was Brandon Phillips. He’s a good power hitting 2B who could be had for the right price. He’s signed for 2 more years at a total of $17.75M plus a $12M team option for 2012. I think Prado, a upper minors arm, and a low minors prospect would get him.

by jack dein on Nov 10, 2009 11:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Prado is three years younger, makes a fraction of the salary, and he outperformed Phillips last year.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 10, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well we could trade for phillips, put prado at first, and sign an xavier nady type player for left field or just let matty have it

phillips makes up power-wise pretty much by losing laroche…we add speed to our line up…we’d have a young right side of the infield, and still have money to sign a left fielder

McLouth
Phillips
Chipper
LF
Mac
Esco
Diaz/Heyward
Prado

i’d personally love to see two speedsters at the top of our lineup for once…and our 1-5 hitters would all have pretty good power…

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 2:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not to mention he’s right handed, since we apparently need that

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 2:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

CB

do you really think Prado outperformed Phillips last year?

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 11, 2009 4:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Phillips...

looks around, or a little better, than a .750 ops. He’s not bad, but he’s not all that.

I’d probably be willing to do a Votto for package with Freeman type deal (Votto is what you hope Freeman becomes), but not much from the Reds is appealling.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 11, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Phillips

is very much a product of Great American Smallpark. His OPS drops something like 50 or more points when he leaves home.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 11, 2009 9:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great point. .849 OPS at home, .713 on the road.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so 150 points

so even more serious than I remember it being. Yeah, not the guy we want.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 11, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I absolutely think he outperformed Phillips. Start out with Prado’s .822 OPS compared to Phillips’ .776; 46 points in OPS is pretty huge. And most of that comes in OBP, which is important because I already see a few people on here that want to put him at the top of the order. Phillips stole 25 bases, which Prado can never compete with, but he also got caught 9 times, which kind of negates that, especially since he has a low OBP.
Phillips is supposedly this dynamic slugger, but really he had one pretty great season three years ago, and since then had been good, but not worth giving up prospects for and paying huge amounts of money to. Even in that 07 season, his OPS wasn’t as high as Prado’s this year.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

how does 9 CS negate that? thats still at 74% success rate, McLouth made it safely 76%.. Carl Crawford stole bases at 78% and he’s one of the best in the game

it’d be an upgrade defensivly, add more speed, add more power, more XBH and Prado could play filler for freeman at first for cheap….

then go get another outfield bat and were set?

im sorry but i’d just rather have a 2B with some pop in his bat, good glove, and speed…rather than an a un proven defensive liablilty with no speed or range at 2B

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How does Phillips have better pop than Prado? Yes, he’s got speed and it’s arguable that Prado is a defensive liability, but Prado had a 36 point advantage in OPS. That’s pop and he was better at it. And, as I showed above, Phillips’s pop is dependent on his home ballpark, .849 OPS at home, .713 on the road. If you put him in Atlanta’s park half the year, his OPS will be .100 points lower than Prado’s.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

OPS includes other things rather than pop or power

phillips averages a homerun every 29 AB’s

prado every 55 AB’s

phillips is a better all around player and more proven

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and i know he’d played in great american but thats still a pretty big difference…and before everyone says it, no im not putting too much merit in home runs, but that was a weakness of ours the first part of the season and if we dont get laroche back he’s a good way to pick up the slack

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it is also a lot of the home park...

Phillips at home, 10 HR in 301 plate app, with a .500 slg
Road, same # HR in 42 more pa, and a .400 slg (last year also had a slg just over .400, with a home slg over 480).

Prado on the road, 257 pa with 7 HR, and a .461 slg.

So no, Brandon Phillips doesn’t really have more power, when you take away the home park.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 11, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Prado’s slugging was . 464, Phillips’ was .447 (and it was .502 at home compared to only .400 on the road). Slugging only judges pop. Even with the impact of his ballpark, Phillips didn’t have the pop Prado had.

If you want to argue that Phillips is the better all around player, that’s fine, but he also would cost the Braves players and a huge increase in salary for a position that already has a better offensive player as the incumbent.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

THIS...

in about 100 fewer plate appearances on the road, Prado had just 3 fewer HR, and 60 points higher in slugging.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 11, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

AHH

i knew i’d get teamed up on by all the prado supporters eventually,,

but kelly’s better than both of em ;)

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s not teaming up when the numbers support our argument…

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I had this argument with a Reds fan who said Phillips is the best 2b in baseball…. He isn’t a bad player, but he really really takes advantage of Great American.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 11, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know he’s had some decent years in the majors, but I’ve never thought much of him. I liked him a lot when I saw him in A ball, but after the 4th year of seeing him in AAA, when he wasn’t getting any better, I just didn’t think much of him. But, he has made himself at least into a ML regular.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

compare phillips and johnson...

in 07 and 08, and the numbers are pretty similar with johnson not having the advantage of 81 games in that park.

point remains that brandon phillips has some nice power and speed. but while he’s an upgrade defensively, he’s a downgrade at the plate and in salary from both our current options.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 11, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

On a related note, looks as if they are saying many other players could be available. I know it really woundnt work because the Reds are trying to trim payroll and so are we, but it would be great to get Joey Votto. Cincy would prob ask to unload a big salary along with Votto, so it wouldnt really work, and he bats lefty, which isnt really what we need, but when rosterbating, the world is your oyster. The kid can flat out mash

I thought hurricane season was over........

by bravesguy311 on Nov 11, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also

I think you are all missing the point. The Reds are looking to drop payroll, so guys like Votto aren’t going to be the ones available. It will be guys like Harang and Arroyo, maybe Phillips, Cordero, or anyone who is dumb enough to take on Rolen/Taveras. You don’t trim payroll by trading away your young studs who are making the minimum salary!

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 11, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thats why I said they would deal Votto along with one of those hefty contracts, to sweeten the deal or what have you. They have Alonso who will be able to step in for him.

I thought hurricane season was over........

by bravesguy311 on Nov 11, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Lowe could be moved for prospects...

then acquire Votto and Cordero for Freeman, McLouth, and some prospects?

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 11, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no on cordero, he’s making like 11 mil a year…we can get someone cheaper. alot cheaper

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe a different Cordero

Last time I checked, Chad Cordero is unemployed, and could probably be had at a reasonable price.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Nov 11, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

probably, but francisco...

has a long track record of some pretty strong seasons while chad hasn’t pitched in the bigs in two years and was pretty bad last year in the low levels of seattle’s minors.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 11, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Valid

Chad is the epitome of low-risk, high-reward, though. What’s kept him out for so long was a torn labrum, and it seems like he rushed the timeline to get back into the majors. He’s younger than Coco, and when he’s healthy, he could produce at the closer position almost as well.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Nov 11, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

dang i almost forgot about chad cordero, he dissapeared, but damn he had some good stuff

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hate his flat bill.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He’s one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet, flat bill or not.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Nov 11, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh absolutely. He’s 100% class act.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sure, sign him to a minor league deal...

but I’d expect more from Proctor than him.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 11, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i think he declined a minor league deal with nats, thats why he was released i believe

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Refused assignment, and look where it got him. He might accept now, just to get back to working.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Nov 11, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

true

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He signed with the Mariners last year

By the end of the year, his velocity still had not returned. I thought he was staying with Seattle, but even if he is not, unless he can show he can still pitch, he is not much of an option. Low-risk, low-reward.

by cavebird on Nov 11, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m sorry but I can’t see any situation where Votto would be available. We simply don’t match up well with any of their available contracts: Harang, Arroyo and Phillips

by bbxxj on Nov 11, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Brandon Phillips.
… could be had for the right price. He’s signed for 2 more years at a total of $17.75M plus a $12M team option for 2012.

He’s 28 and has put up 4 pretty solid years in a row.

Is he the best available Rignt Handed Bat for that level of money? It seems kinda hard to believe, but … maybe so. If LaRoche walks, then Marteen could play 1B.

by fandave on Nov 11, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

JKowalek's deleted fanpost

Phillips as the power bat?

Bobby_1_tiny by JKowalek on Nov 11, 2009 6:21 AM PST Comment 5 comments, 5 new

the move that we should make to acquire a power righty bat is to package KJ with a couple mid level prospects for brandon phillips. mlbtraderumors.com reported the reds were cutting payroll and big names were going to be traded. he was the first name on the list and i can’t see them asking too much for him. he may not be the ideal guy for our needs but i think we would be getting a very good hitter that has more talent than he has shown in cinnci, probably due to his help in the lineup.

phillips has played 3rd before in his career also. im not saying we get him and move him there but if you have been following theres another team in red looking for a 3rd baseman that i really don’t want to see add him to their lineup

0 recs | Comment 5 comments, 5 new | Add comment
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Dan Uggla would be preferable,…

among others like Troy Glaus and Mark Derosa imo.

Thinking Reds, the first names I’d want aren’t Phillips, but Votto (would they likely won’t be looking to move) and Cordero (who is too expensive unless Lowe gets moved around in a 3 team deal). They just aren’t a good matchup trade wise.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 11, 2009 6:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Uggla wouldn’t be bad either i was thinking that too. I think phillips would improve in a better line-up. Votto is a lefty and not exactly what were looking for but i do see them considering moving him to get yonder alonzso in there.

by JKowalek on Nov 11, 2009 7:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

no thanks

by McCann’s the Man on Nov 11, 2009 7:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
This is rosterbation. Share it in the designated thread.

Also, are they not teaching punctuation and capitalization in school anymore? I know this is the interwebs and all but its really not that hard just to hit an extra key. All I can think about when reading posts like these are all the errors and not the content of the post.

by bbxxj on Nov 11, 2009 7:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
This

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 11, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 10:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I read somewhere where it said that the Reds actually might be looking to deal Joey Votto. They have some kid Yonder Alonso who is apparently a stud at first base and is pretty close to being ready…

i think they’d bite on a deal involving julio teheran and medlen…that would definately be worth it in my opinion…thoughts?

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 11, 2009 2:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The question I have would go back to Freemen. Last year I believe he was on the list with Heyward and Hanson as untouchables. If that’s still the case Votto would block him. I know he’s a great athlete, but the anxiety issues scare me.

by Fischerking on Nov 11, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

THIS JUST IN

Cause I made it up in my head.

Marlins get:
Nate Mclouth
Freedie Freeman
Kris Medlen
Randal Delgado

Braves Get
Mike Stantion
Jorge Cantu

weeee, something needs to happen before i rosterbate myself to death out of sheer boredom

60% of the time, it works every time

by ATLandUNC on Nov 11, 2009 4:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

LOL

im with ya. i want some action already!

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 11, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree as well

but what I am most happy about is that there are no trade rumors dragging out like last season. The negotiations so far are nice and quiet. I don’t think I could stand another Peavy-esque show like last season.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 11, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What would you say to Gonzalez and a prospect for Jurrjens?

by acie4mvp on Nov 11, 2009 5:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Adrian Gonzalez? Probably a lot more valuable than Jurrjens.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 11, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow sorry, Carlos Gonzalez. The Rockies outfielder. This will be his third year, too.

by acie4mvp on Nov 11, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you’re just kidding around, right?
Jurrjens is an ace.
C. Gonzalez is a talented, but relatively unproven LH LF, who might be a nice player but solves none of our problems.

by fandave on Nov 11, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just wondering. Jurrjens got a little lucky and his ERA should’ve been about a run higher. And I think an .800+ OPS in the outfield would help solve our problems. Don’t get me wrong though Jurrjens is my favorite pitcher and I love the guy.

by acie4mvp on Nov 11, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Remember to temper expectation on C. Gonzalez

While he is young and could be a stud, remember that the numbers he put up in 2009 were in Coors.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

pretty surprised by this

found a video on mlb.com, it must have done a few years back. it was when boone logan was with the white sox, but they were breaking down all of the “closers of the future”

they had guys like heath bell, chad qualls, johnathon broxton, carlos marmol (who all panned out pretty good)…but they also had boone logan? is there something im missing with this or what?

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 12, 2009 9:21 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

If you look at his AAA numbers in 06 and 07 he definitely looks like a great prospects. And sometimes things take time; I watched Heath Bell here in Norfolk for 5 seasons and he was amazing, but every time he went up to the Mets he sucked. They weren’t using him right and as soon as he moved on he flourished.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 12, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah it seems like the sox rushed him through the minors too quickly, but it makes me wonder how good he actually could be

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 12, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Logan

I’ve seen some spark in Logan, kind of like I do in Kawakami. It’s not always there, but sometimes, I just wanna say “Why isn’t this guy pitching more often?” He’s got some good stuff, when he can locate. I think his confidence level is a bit shaky.

by Audi on Nov 13, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What would it take to get Chone Figgins?

Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.

by TradeAndruw on Nov 12, 2009 10:50 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Mike Gonzalez seems to be drawing a lot of interest on the free agent market which means that we will be offering him arbitration.
The Indians would love to trade Kerry Wood. I know he’s not a a great closer but if the Indians sent a prospect along with him, I would like Lonnie Chisenhall whose a 21 year old 3B prospect whose at AA. I’m not sure who we would send their way but its worth a shot.

by jack dein on Nov 12, 2009 2:55 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I’m not a fan of Chisenhall. Looks like another Eric Campbell.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 12, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is the one

Trade Nate McLouth, Kris Medlen, Freddie Freeman, Brandon Hicks and Cole Rohrbough to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez.

Trade Derek Lowe to the Diamondbacks for Coner Jackson and Josh Ellis.

Trade Kelly Johnson, Ryan Church and Manny Acosta to the White Sox Bobby Jenks.

Sign Jason Bay – 6 yr/ 90 mil contract; Mike Cameron – 1 yr/ 4 mil contract; Bobby Crosby – 2 yr/ 3 mil contract.

Re-sign Mike Gonzalez – 3 yr/ 18 mil contract.

Extend Javier Vazquez – 3 yr/ 30 mil contract.

Lineup:
Diaz(3 mil)/Schafer(425K) – RF (3.425 mil)
Prado – 2B (425K)
Jones – 3B (13 mil)
Gonzalez – 1B (4.75 mil)
Bay – LF – (15 mil)
McCann – C (6 mil – rounded)
Escobar – SS (500K)
Cameron – CF (4 mil)

Total – 47.1 mil

Bench:
Diaz/Schafer – OF (See Above)
Ross – C (1.6 mil)
Infante – Super Utility (2 mil – rounded)
Crosby – IF (1.5 mil)
Jackson – 1B/OF – (3 mil)

Total – 8.1 mil

Starting pitching:
Vazquez – RHP (10 mil)
Jurrjens – RHP (450K)
Hudson – RHP (9 mil)
Hanson – RHP (400K)
Kawakami – RHP (7.5 mil – rounded)

Total – 27.35 mil

Bullpen:
Parr – LRP (400K)
Logan/Gomez/Hyde – LOOGY (600K – If Boone is tendered)
Valdez/Kimbrel – MRP (400K)
O’Flaherty – MRP (400K)
Moylan – SUP (1.5 mil)
Gonzalez – CP/SUP (6 mil)
Jenks – CP/SUP (7.5 mil)

Total – 16.8 mil

Which would give us a grand total of – 99.35 give or take about 2 mil. This would definitely be a championship caliber team.

by Jay212033 on Nov 12, 2009 8:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

To many players but not enough of what the Padres would want for Gonzalez. They would want Medlen and Freeman but they don’t have a spot for Hicks and Rohrbough saw his trade value go down this year.
The Diamondbacks are very strapped for cash so their not going to be the ones that take Lowe unless we pay a bunch of his contract. Jackson is a nontender candidate anyway.
Why would the White Sox want 3 players that we don’t. Johnson and Church could be non tendered. Acosta is nothing more than a middle reliever.
Bay will probably get about $15M per but he won’t sign until Holliday does. Cameron will get more than $4M because there’s enough teams that need a OF that can’t afford Holliday or Bay.
Mike Gonzalez contract looks good although I read today that more teams seem interested in him so that could make in a little more expensive.
Vazquez would get more than 3 years $30M. Probably somewhere around 4 years $52M.

by jack dein on Nov 12, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

“To many players but not enough of what the Padres would want for Gonzalez. They would want Medlen and Freeman but they don’t have a spot for Hicks and Rohrbough saw his trade value go down this year.”

McLouth is also in this deal which would replace some of what they lose in Gonzalez and they could slide Blanks back to 1B which is his natural position, which he still doesn’t play all that well.

“The Diamondbacks are very strapped for cash so their not going to be the ones that take Lowe unless we pay a bunch of his contract. Jackson is a nontender candidate anyway.”

I read nowhere about the DBacks being cash strapped. Show me where you read this. On mlbtraderumors.com it says that they are looking for pitching and may look into Lackey and Bedard and if that’s the case those guys WILL NOT come cheap.

“Why would the White Sox want 3 players that we don’t. Johnson and Church could be non tendered. Acosta is nothing more than a middle reliever.”

Because the White Sox need a 2B now that they have traded their 2B and Jenks is a non-tender candidate as well anyway because of his possible 7.5 mil raise.

“Bay will probably get about $15M per but he won’t sign until Holliday does. Cameron will get more than $4M because there’s enough teams that need a OF that can’t afford Holliday or Bay.”

Cameron will not get much more than 4 mil and if he does let another team have him, he’s not worth more than that. This lineup would have enough to cover for Schafer if that’s the case.

“Mike Gonzalez contract looks good although I read today that more teams seem interested in him so that could make in a little more expensive.”

Wonderful if that’s the case offer him arbitration and if he doesn’t accept the we’d get 2 picks from whomever signs him.

“Vazquez would get more than 3 years $30M. Probably somewhere around 4 years $52M.”

How do you know he wouldn’t accept a Hudson type deal since he likes it in ATL? Also who’s to say he’ll repeat his numbers from this past season to command such a contract?

by Jay212033 on Nov 12, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The bigger issue with the Padres is if they make Gonzalez available there are going to be a lot of teams that make big offers for him. Freeman and Medlen would be a good start but we don’t have enough major league ready pitching that we would part with for them to make that deal. The Red Sox would probably be willing to offer 4 of their top 10 prospects for him and I don’t want to give up that much for a player that we probably couldn’t keep for more than 2 years anyway.
“Just looking at our payroll, we do have some flexibility going into 2011 and 2012,” says Byrnes. “I don’t think we’d do it just to do it, but if we felt like it was the right guy, we’d do a multiyear.” That’s from MLBTR Nov. 11. Really not sure how long ago you read that article.
There’s plenty of 2B options for the White Sox that are cheaper. Plus Johnson will be another Giles deal where everyone knows that he’s going to be non tendered so they won’t give up anything for him. Same goes for Church.
As for Vazquez he has no ties to Atlanta. Hudson was from Alabama and had been here for awhile. Plus Hudson was coming off TJ surgery and Vazquez is coming off of a career year.
My reasoning on Cameron is that there’s teams that need a OF but don’t have $15M to spend but they could go to $6M. Wren said yesterday that Schafer would more than likely start the season at AAA.

by jack dein on Nov 12, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They WILL NOT non-tender Jenks

hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places

by esadb on Nov 15, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Other than almost everything you post being wrong, it wasn't a bad post Jay212033

1. There is no chance that the Padres want or would value McLouth in a trade. They are moving Gonzalez because they don’t think they will contend in the next two year, want to get maximum value, and want to trim salary. Taking an OF with a greater salary than A.Gonz. who is signed for two more years is completely silly. So, no, not going to happen. I hope that we could get Gonzalez for something not including Hanson or Heyward (b/c we won’t move those two, period), but Andy is probably right. A. Gonzalez is too valuable and someone will offer more than what we offer that doesn’t include Hanson or Heyward.

2. I have no seen anywhere that the D-Backs are looking for expensive pitching; any rumor that they are looking at Lackey is silly; they might look at Bedard, but only if they can get him cheap. They might non-tender Jackson, however, so we could pick him up for free and trade Lowe in a straight salary dump.

3. The White Sox do not need a second baseman. They already announced that Beckham is moving to second base. KJ and Church will not be traded for and both will likely be non-tendered.

4. Bay could possibly be signed for 6yrs/$90 mill. The Braves ownership won’t pony up this money for him however.

5. Cameron will make far more than $4 million—-probably $6-$8. Fangraphs says he has been worth more than $7 million every year since 2002 and substantially more valuable than $10 million the last two years. The fangraphs values are not quite directly comparable to open-market prices, but Cameron is still worth far more than $4 million. If he’d take that, great, but it won’t happen.

6. I have no idea what Vazquez would take. I don’t think anybody outside of Vazquez and his inner circle does.

by cavebird on Nov 15, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Conor Jackson, by the way, is swingin a hot bat in the Dominican Winter League.
When healthy as a 26 year old in ’08, he put up a .300/.376 /.446.
If non-tendered, he could be a very nice pick-up option for us.

by fandave on Nov 15, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If we were to make a deal with the Padres we might as well try to expand it to include Heath Bell

Padres Get:
Freeman
Schafer
Medlen
Kimbrel
Lower Pitching Prospect (One of the Delgados)

Braves would then get a Closer and a 1B with a big bat to put behind Chipper.

Going forward we have tons of pitching depth in the Minors so Medlen and Kimbrel wouldnt be THAT missed IMO.

Schafer and Freeman would hurt a bit if we werent able to re-sign Gonzalez.

by drumzalicious on Nov 12, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So you think

Schafer, Kimbrel and Delgado would be better than McLouth a proven cheap CF?

by Jay212033 on Nov 12, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yes

The Padres are a team that barely have any expensive players and they are STILL trying to trim payroll.

so yes a league minimum CF will be more valuable than a proven CF that has a salary thats the same as Gonzalez and would defeat the purpose of them moving him.

by drumzalicious on Nov 12, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok guys, time for a cold shower

Before you all suffer from a bad case of chaffage.

Any rosterbation that includes a trade to the Padres for A-Gonz without 1 or both of Hanson and Heyward is ridiculous. Not even worth discussing. Let alone adding Heath Bell in there.

Just throwing that out there.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 13, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

Medlen, Schafer, Kimbrel, Freeman plus lower level pitching would beat any teams offer except possibly the Red Sox because they have more Major league ready pitching than us

by drumzalicious on Nov 13, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh my god.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 13, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

giving people a bunch of crap does not bring back good players.

hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places

by esadb on Nov 15, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A one year rental: Carlos Pena

The Rays are a small budget team, with a payroll of $65,126,368 in 2009, ranking as the 25th lowest out of 30 MLB teams. They would like to hold on to Carl Crawford, the face of the franchise, and he might be willing to stay, although it is far from a sure thing or a done deal.

Pena too is in the last year of his contract, will earn $10,250,000, the Rays highest salary for 2010, has Boras as his agent, and will almost surely walk after the 2010 season.

So the Rays need to dump Pena’s salary in order to make a serious push to try to keep Crawford.

And the Braves have major league ready players and excellent prospects to offer.

It might really make sense for the Braves depending on exactly how much we have to give up.

To keep LaRoche, who made $7,050,000 in 2009, we would have to give him at least two years at $9,000,000 or more per year and this would block Freeman. On the other hand, Pena would give us a big time cleanup hitter, gold glove defense, and 2 virtually guaranteed supplemental picks when he leaves after 2010. Most importantly, Pena is the superior player and would significantly increase our opportunity to compete for a championship in 2010.

Thoughts?

by fandave on Nov 12, 2009 11:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I like it but who would we give up to get him. The Rays have a very good minor league system.
Pena would be great in our lineup. It doesn’t really matter if he hits LF he still hits for great power.

by jack dein on Nov 12, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ditto

who do we give up to get him? what do they possibly need that we have in our system aside from relief prospects and Kimbrel is going nowhere

by drumzalicious on Nov 12, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The usual suspects, 3 or 4 of them. You know, Meds, Logan, etc. It would have to make some sense, but we’re talking cahmpionship.

by fandave on Nov 13, 2009 7:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That , of course, is the problem with a blockbuster trade. Or Would the Rays dump salary? And Who are our touchables? I haven’t thought too hard on it, but … JJ, Hanson, Heyward, Freeman, Minor, Teheran, Spruill, R. Delgado and perhaps Adam Milligan is my short list.

by fandave on Nov 13, 2009 8:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

all of them are untouchables?

who are we supposed to deal then? Todd Redmond? Brandon Hicks?

Sometimes you’ve gotta trade minor league talent(s) for major league talents.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 13, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is Wren’s biggest problem.

For acquistion of a one year rental, or even an aging, stop-gap vet, it seems like it would be very easy to give up too much. Do we want the team to go all in on making a one year run at the championship, or not?

Bear in mind that in suggesting a trade for Carlos Pena, my starting point was the assumption he could possibly be available on a salary dump basis. Of course, if this was true, we know the Mets and some other teams would want to be in on the bidding.

How much to give up – i.e., what would make sense, taking into account that giving up pieces like Meds or Logan and/or gutting the farm on a World Series or Bust approach, may be just stupid – really does strike me as a who the hell knows type issue.

In all seriousness, I highly doubt the Braves will make a big shift away from what they have done historically – scout, draft and develop young talent, stick with them and give them the every opportunity to succeed and rise up to the Major League level.

by fandave on Nov 14, 2009 10:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

This thread makes me sick

hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places

by esadb on Nov 15, 2009 11:45 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I saw today that the Giants were looking to add a starter to their roster. Someone to bridge the gap from Cain, Zito, and Lincecum. I thought that they might be interested in Derek Lowe. Lowe has 3 years and $45M left on his contract at $15M per season. The Giants minor leagues are top heavy and Lowe isn’t worth Bumgarner or Posey. So I thought about a contract swap someone who could be useful to both teams. That’s when I thought what about Aaron Rowand. Rowand has 3 years and $36M remaining on his deal at $12M per season. He does have a limited no trade clause.

Many of you will scoff at this idea because you have this illusion that we will be able to trade Lowe and his entire salary and get something in return for it. If we move Lowe it will be 1 of 3 ways: either we eat almost all his salary and get 1 or 2 useful prospects back, eat a little of his salary and get nothing back, or we swap similar contracts with another team.

If we eat some of his contract and get someone back then I think that the other team will want us to eat $3-5M per season.

Even if we get another team to take him off our hands they may want some money back. Maybe $1-2M per season.

If we swap contracts with the Giants we get useful who like Lowe is over payed. Rowand is entering the 3rd year of a 5 year deal. Last season he hit .261/.319/.419 with 15 HR’s. He still plays good defense. Getting him out of San Francisco should improve his power. In a neutral park he should hit 20-25 HR’s a year again. Plus we save $3M a year for the next 3 years which would allow us to tinker with the bullpen or help resign LaRoach.

by jack dein on Nov 17, 2009 4:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

interesting...

he hits righty too, but then he’s also make for a likely deal of McLouth once Schafer and Heyward are ready.

I’m of the opinion Lowe is worth more than you are from that 3 ways sentence, but that is an interesting deal.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 17, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Lowe is worth something but there are quite a few free agent starters who will put up similar numbers to Lowe and wouldn’t cost as much. Randy Wolf for example put up better numbers than Lowe in every way but will probably not get much more than $10M a season.

by jack dein on Nov 17, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you on what we get for Lowe

However, I would honestly rather just salary dump him than take on Rowand’s contract, which would probably eliminate the Giants from consideration—-I can’t imagine them being able to handle the contracts of Rowand, Zito and Lowe simultaneously. It isn’t that Rowand isn’t useful, but I could see a lot more use for the Lowe salary money on the free agent marker than basically spending almost all of it on Rowand. If we just straight dump his salary (if that is possible; I think Lowe is good enough that we could), we could, for example, probably sign Cameron and LaRoche—-which would be less years and more productive than taking on Rowand’s contract.

by cavebird on Nov 17, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

we aren't signing LaRoche..

he’ll want a 3 year guaranteed deal, and he’s gonna get at least that. But it won’t be from us, because we’ve got Freeman before then.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 18, 2009 1:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would assume that we would only sign LaRoche if...

…he is willing to accept a two-year deal because he wants to play in Atlanta. It may not be the case because he could get a three year deal elsewhere, but I think it is possible. At least it makes it easy to offer him arbitration because we actually would like it if he accepted.

by cavebird on Nov 18, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This has been a boring month and a half of the offseason.

I kinda want some action, but don’t wanna get in a situation like there was last year when I would check MLBTR every 2 minutes to look for an update on Jake Peavy. That was a nightmare.

In a perfect world, I’d like to be done nice and early. It would be super cool if we weren’t looking for our starting LF a week before spring training starts.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 17, 2009 10:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I might be off but doesn’t free agency start on Friday.

by jack dein on Nov 17, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no idea. hopefully

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 17, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

even then

wont see any action until december when arb decisions are made

by drumzalicious on Nov 19, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Braves have officially thrown their hat into the DeRosa ring...

MLBTR is reporting that we are now among the 10 to 12 teams that are vying for his services. Probably won’t happen. Just thought I’d let everyone know since I haven’t seen his name on this thread yet.

by Fischerking on Nov 18, 2009 8:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I love this target...

can play 3rd if Chipper is hurt, or 2nd if Prado doesn’t keep it up and KJ leaves, or a corner OF spot until Heyward/Schafer are ready, or 1B if we don’t find another to fill the big bat void.

His versatility plus his solid (not great, but solid) right handed bat makes this a huge plus, especially if he’s at a reasonable price (say $5-8 mil).

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 18, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Braves never should have let Mark DeRosa get away in the first place. He would be a great addition at many levels.

by fandave on Nov 18, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

THIS

why did we let him go? Was it a trade?

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 18, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he was non tendered after not playing well at 3rd base.

by jack dein on Nov 19, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

stupid.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 19, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He was pretty bad his last year here which was 2004. .239/.293/.320, 3 HR’s in 309 at bats.
I personally don’t think he’s that good. He should hit .280-.290 with 15-20 HR’s but he was awful with St. Louis last year hitting only .228/.291/.405 with 10 HR’s in 237 at bats. He can play about anywhere but his bat is weak in the OF and 3B. Plus he’s never really played full time at any one position, and he’ll be 35 at the start of next season. He’s really just a super utility player.

by jack dein on Nov 19, 2009 1:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he's like Infante to me...

not a great but at any of the spots he plays, but for a super utility guy filling in wherever needed, he’s a pretty good backup option, and good enough to be a starter in say LF.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 19, 2009 8:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not stupid, completely justified and smart. He was about to be 30 coming off of two unproductive sub-.700 OPS seasons. The fact that he turned around his career is a testament to him, not a knock against the Braves’ decision makers.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 19, 2009 1:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My point was that he had been solid, notwithstanding occasional sub-par offensive production, and also a great teammate and a great bench player given his capability to play multiple positions. The good seasons he had after leaving were no big surprise at all.

I didn’t like the decision at the time, but can see that the team had its reasons.

Looking at it through the retrospectiscope, it would definitely been smarter to have held on to him.

by fandave on Nov 19, 2009 8:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

cbwilk is right

Non-tendering DeRosa was a smart move. If you compare DeRosa to our current non-tender candidates, Kelly Johnson and Ryan Church, his numbers were far worse in both the majors and the minors. When we non-tendered DeRosa, he already had over 1000 PA in the majors with an OPS+ of 78. He simply hadn’t performed. His minor league numbers were never very good either.

by cavebird on Nov 19, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and not only that, he was regressing at near 30...

his bat was getting worse with increased at bats over the final two years, and in the field he committed 10 errors in under half a season at 3B. He was regressing in every way when we let him go, and to his credit he has bounced back and made himself a very good player. But at the time of letting him go, you couldn’t really forsee his explosion soon after.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 19, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And as soon as he left and began getting more regular playing time, he became a very productive player.

I would say, again, unsurprisingly.

by fandave on Nov 19, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He did it in Texas. And, he was probably on steroids.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 19, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, but that seems like a cheap shot, cb. I’ve never read or heard any allegations or innuendo that he was on steroids. To the contrary, I believe he has always been thought of a high character player.

If you have anything other than speculation based on the era and the fact his power numbers did increase, I will stand duly corrected.

by fandave on Nov 19, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No, it’s absolutely a cheap shot. I like DeRo, he was always great to me, but I know for a fact that he’s a workout junkie, always has been, and guys like that, like Gabe Kapler for instance, are much more likely to start on steroids. There’s no logical accounting for the ridiculous upswing in his career at that age. It’s unfair, but he was playing at the wrong time in baseball history to play that far over his previous performance. I just don’t buy it.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 19, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

what were the braves supposed to do dave?

this was his minor league stats: .776 ops was his best year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=derosa001mar

here are his major league stats: when he became a “regular player”, he played awful (sub .700 ops). to say his big seasons werent a “surprise” goes against all statistical evidence that was collected from 7 years of below average stats. his overall ops with atlanta was .690. that sucks. it’s sub-francoeurian
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/derosma01.shtml

he was never good enough to be a starter. he was going to be too expensive to be a backup. he then played in the fairy tale park out in texas.

My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.

by ryan c on Nov 19, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The team could have afforded to keep him, but chose not to do so.

The reason I didn’t like it at the time was as stated above, plus the fact that in the ’02 and ’03 seasons, he had been a productive player with decent pop, with an aggregate .279 batting average and +.400 SLG. His OPS was not impressive because he was a free swinger and his BB totals were low.

The thing is that he was always a talented, natural athlete type player. In my opnion, at the time, he had lots of upside and the Braves would have been smarter to have held on to him. His subsequent performance suggests that opinion was not so stupid.

On the other hand, it was not necessarily an unreasonable decision at the time to let him walk, and it wasn’t my intent to suggest otherwise. The team had its reasons. As a fan, I just happened to disagree.

by fandave on Nov 19, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I still think it was surprising

Regardless of unquantifiable “talent” and “character” most 30 yr. old players who have not been able to hit in over 1,000 major league plate appearances and never hit in the minors don’t usually all of the sudden become productive players. So, yes, DeRosa’s career turnaround was very surprising.

by cavebird on Nov 19, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Aquiring Value: Tex vs Javy

These two trades show how a trade should be done and shouldn’t be done most of the time.

‘Trading for the Esablished Star’

Teixeira was a move that at the time looked fantastic and in hindsight I can really blame JS and his lackeys but it is an example of how you rarely win when trading for established stars. This is because they are:

-Usually 1-2 year rentals in which you trade multiple players with ~6 years of ‘cheap’ control
-Usually there are multiple bidders for the star because well, stars are well known comodities. Thus you pay at least market value or more.
-Usually the established star is in the last few years of a deal or arbi so they aren’t really much more economical than a star signed out of FA

‘Trading for an Undervalued Star’

Vazquez should be poster boy for this sort of trade. He was being wasted in a park and league and by a manager who would never get the best out of him. Thus the public and perhaps industry perception was that he was not a star. Wren, knowing his value would be much higher in ATL, pulled of a crazy shrewd deal sending good but very expedable specs for a reasonably priced 200+IP 200+K ACE.

Other examples of aquiring stars would be the trade that didn’t happen with Peavy that would have been a BAD deal and our overpaying for Lowe in FA.

So my advice would be stay away from aquiring stars via FA or trade unless we get a crazy good deal (ie like Huddy’s extention) and try our damndest to find the next Javier Vazquez. This includes not putting our hat in the self destructive bidding for A-Gon, Fielder, Holliday, Figgins, etc as it is extremely unlikely that we will get value above what we pay.

So in my next post(s) I’ll identify a few players that I think could be The Next Javy’

by bbxxj on Nov 18, 2009 11:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Aquiring Value: Jose Lopez

Vital Stats

Bats:R Throws:R AGe:26
Career UZR/150 1B: 11.0 2B: 0.6
Salary: ’10-2.75M ’11-5M option(0.25M buyout)

Career: .271/.303/.412/.715 15HR/650PA

Career Safeco: .254/.287/.403/.689 15HR/650PA
Career Away: .287/.318/.422/.740 15HR/650PA
  

’09: .272/.303/.463/.766 26HR/650PA

’09 Safeco: .229/.254/.387/.641 17HR/650PA
’09 Away: .313/.348/.535/.883 34HR/650PA

I believe Jose Lopez could be another ‘Javy’ because his RH power is getting wasted in Safeco. It is also becoming obvious that Jack Z values D above nearly every skill and Lopez is nothing special at second where he is currently being used. They could concievably want to move him (as has been rumored) to make room for a better defensive second basemen who’s lefthandedness would play better in Safeco like Orlando Hudson.

Seatle’s main needs this offseason are the corners/DH/C where we can’t really help them but also they are looking for starters and possibly a LFer. Names to throw out there as a match in some sort of package going to and from could be Lowe, Kawakami, McLouth (LF) and the usual minor league pitching prospects that are used as trade currency.

I think getting a probable ~.300/.350/.530 30+HR good fielding first basemen for 2yr/7.25M without giving up any of Freeman/Schafer/Teheran/Delgado would be a major coup.

What do you guys think?

by bbxxj on Nov 18, 2009 12:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

not to hate on Jose Lopez

but saying he is probably going to post a .350 OBP when his career OBP is .303 is pretty tough to defend. OBP is one of those skills that doesn’t just jump like that, it requires that the player has a pretty good eye and Lopez simply doesn’t have that. It isn’t like the Ted is a hitter’s park either.

Looking at his 3 year road splits, which may be a little more telling than just his 2009 ones (even though at his age he may get better), we see a .290/.320/.429. Assuming his road splits are indicative of what he might get at the Ted AND he gets better, let go with .300/.330/.450. Not bad value, but not all-star numbers either.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 18, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that you are expecting a bit too much of Jose Lopez

Safeco does sap right-handed power, but not that much. Lopez’s GB/FB ratios until last year were more groundball heavy and last year they were neutral. Lopez’s HR/FB numbers had a spike last year leading to his 25 HR. I don’t know if we can expect that to continue whether or not he leaves Safeco. Furthermore, your projection of a .350 OBP is not supportable from Lopez’s numbers—-his career away numbers don’t reach that—-only his away numbers from his 2009 season, which amounted to a career half year. He doesn’t have any patience and I don’t see any reason for him to acquire that by moving ballparks. Basically, we would be looking at a Jeff Franceour type player at 1B because at 2B he is pretty bad defensively, and we don’t need to do that to our pitching staff. I also don’t know how good his fielding is at first base—-he’s played first base a grand total of 29 times in his career, so those numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt. On the whole, I’d pass.

by cavebird on Nov 18, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Free agency starts in 12.5 hours.

by jack dein on Nov 19, 2009 11:23 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

And only another month after that until anybody worthwhile actually signs.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 19, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve always wondered why NFL free agency goes so fast and why MLB free agency is slow.

by jack dein on Nov 19, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rocco Baldelli

Hey, I have no idea if this was stated above or not cause I dont feel like reading that much but what do yall think about picking up Baldelli? The braves wanted him before and like his skills when he is not injured. IF he can stay healthy I really think he could be a solid pickup and a cheaper option to play right or left field for a bit till Heyward is ready. Heres his states last year with BoSox off the bench: 150AB, 7HR, 23RBI, 11BB, 37SO, .253AVG, .433SLUG

by Dlass008 on Nov 19, 2009 1:45 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not a horrible idea

but he has some big health issues as I recall.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 20, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why dont we

sign rich harden as our closer lol

by drumzalicious on Nov 19, 2009 4:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Javy came in 4th for CY voting. Just throwing that out there

by blitzerlover on Nov 19, 2009 6:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

so much for having a contained, frothy corner of rosterbation, huh?

by fandave on Nov 20, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

certainly ain't worked the past two weeks...

rosterbating on the front page, in all sorts of fan posts, in here, it’s just a rosterbation frenzy these days.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 20, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone interested in Peavy?

Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.

by TradeAndruw on Nov 20, 2009 3:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

“Go Cubs Go!”

"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson

by 10-4 on Nov 20, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That song is catchy.

Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.

by TradeAndruw on Nov 20, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs


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