chipper needs a change....

by ryan c on Nov 4, 2009 8:49 PM EST Comment 23 comments

No, not to first base. Chipper Jones is the greatest Atlanta Brave of all time. In my opinion, he is even greater than Maddux only for one reason: loyalty. Chipper wanted to be a Brave and stay a Brave so badly that he restructured his contract and moved to left field so Vinny Castilla could take over at third base. Chipper, because he will leave baseball the same way he came into baseball (as a Brave), is probably the greatest Atlanta Brave I will ever know.

Chipper will not move from 3rd base again....ever. It's not happening. Even though there are defensive metrics out there that says he's worse than a little leaguer with ADHD, he's not moving. Defensively, he's staying put.

Chipper isnt really a power threat anymore. Sure, he might hit 15-22 homeruns per year, but for a #3 hitter, that is quite below average (the average #3 hitter last year hit 26 homeruns). With that being said, I propose a promotion to Chipper:

Chipper for the 2 hole.

Let's think about this for a moment. Chipper Jones has the ability to hit the ball all over: in the gaps, over the fence, and blooping it in over some poor soul at the middle infield position. Plus, we all know that he's pretty decent at working a count and taking a walk (+100 career OBP). Adding to this is the fact that he rarely strikes out (less than 16% last year and 13% for his career), he would make a great #2 hitter.

With Mclouth obviously set to begin things off for the braves (I would still rather have diaz leading off), martin prado has been the #2 man for the braves. While Martin was a valuable piece when inserted into the #2 hole, he will never have the on-base capability of chipper. Putting Chipper in the 2 hole allows the braves (bobby cox) to get out of the "bunt-minded" mode that plagued them last year and allows them to work on creating big first innings. When the Braves offense started struggling, Bobby started utilizing the bunt earlier and more often. With Chipper in the 2 hole, Bobby has no choice but to let his superstar swing away.

Proposed Lineup (against righties) This is assuming we bring laroche back and sign someone equivalent in power to xavier nady, which is who I will be using in my example. I do believe that the braves will find 2 bats similar, if not better than Nady and Laroche. I believe in Frank Wren.

Mclouth

Chipper

Mccann

Laroche

Escobar

Diaz

Heyward

Prado

Against Lefties (dream, but bare with me)

McLouth

Chipper

Diaz

Nady

Escobar

Mccann

Prado

Laroche

In my lefty lineup, Matt Diaz hits in the #3 hole. In 152 abs against left-handed pitching, Matt Diaz hit .412 last year with a 1.103 ops. For his career, Matt Diaz has hit .347 against lefties with a .921 ops. To say Matty D. is a lefty-killer is an understatement. He is a LEFTY DESTROYER! Matt Diaz deserves to be in the middle of the order against left handed pitching.

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One problem

Heyward will not platoon—he will play every day somewhere, be it Gwinnett or Atlanta. If we want Diaz in the line-up every day, there is not point signing another OF like Nady; Heyward will play every day in right by the end of the year.

by cavebird on Nov 4, 2009 8:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

regarding heyward...

bobby cox basically broke his own rule when he let jordan schafer start in centerfield this last year. usually bobby doesnt hand rookies full-time starting jobs out the gate. the braves have said that they are actively looking for a rh power bat for outfield and a first baseman, not one or the other.

while i do believe heyward will be the regular starting right fielder by season’s end, he probably wont start out that way. he might not be on the roster at all and my dream platoon lineup will just have to be altered.

My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.

by ryan c on Nov 4, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’d prefer McLouth in the 3 spot. Of course, I don’t have any idea who would hit lead off in that situation. It just seems like McLouth use to be more comfortable in the 3 spot and its not like we steal bases anyways.

Also there is something to be said for consistency of order regardless of a leftie or rightie pitching. Moving Laroche from the 4-spot to 8 just because a left handed pitcher is up sounds like a way to throw off the teams rhythm.

by McCann and McWill on Nov 4, 2009 9:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

How about leadoff?...

when he had that .400 run, and was just trying to slap the ball around, he did it extremely well. He has doubles power, so his lack of speed isn’t a huge deal. By next September…
Chipper
Prado
McLouth
1B
McCann
Esco
Heyward
Diaz/Schafer

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 4, 2009 11:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

no thanks. Chipper shouldn’t hit leadoff and he never will.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 5, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like the idea of Chipper hitting 2nd, but I would rather see Escobar bat 3rd than McCann. Heap needs to be a 5 or 6 hitter.

Also, is that Xavier Nady that I see in that 2nd lineup???

"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."

by justincredubil02 on Nov 4, 2009 11:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why are we assuming Heyward will be in the starting line-up right out of the gate next year? The guy has to stay healthy, first (and he’s still a kid).

I love crazy talented prospects as much as the rest of you, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves here…

And I think Chipper will rebound (offensively). His range at third is another concern, though.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 5, 2009 1:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

imagine this...

the braves sign xavier nady and laroche to 2 year deals. nady should almost be looked at as a supersub, but only able to sub in at 3 positions. heyward will get all starts against right-handed pitchers in right-field (which will provide him about 400 at-bats), plus days when nady fills in for diaz or laroche (every other week for each player, so once a week on average), heyward gets that start (adds an additional 80 at-bats per year apprx.). bringing in a rookie and having him platoon and spot-start to give regular rest to laroche and diaz sounds like a great way to introduce the kid into the league. plus, by the end of the year, he averages about 3 abs/game without really wearing the kid down.

screw it…rosterbation police come get me…the braves are going to sign xavier nady.

My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.

by ryan c on Nov 5, 2009 8:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

loyalty

Chipper is my fav player, and your right about him being loyal, with all the free agency today its almost rare to see sumone stay with 1 team as long as Chipper, I kno it used to happen a lot but not much anymore.

by slumpbuster10 on Nov 5, 2009 1:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think you're right about Chipper batting 2nd.

Chipper’s bat needs to get more PA’s. As many as possible.

Here’s the line-up I’d go with:

Diaz
Chipper#
McCann*
RH Power Hitter (LF/1B)
Escobar
Other LF/1B
Prado
McLouth*

The two worst hitters on the team need to be hitting 7th and 8th. Not 1st and 2nd. And that’s not a knock on McLouth and Prado, there are a lot of good hitters on this team, when you think about it. Chipper, Yunel, McCann, and Diaz (provided Diaz’s numbers are sustainable. Yunel’s too, for that matter, though he doesn’t present any reason to be skeptical beyond the fear of SSS). Provided the Braves do get a RH power bat and another decent bat—say LaRoche—I think that’s one of the better line-ups to use.

http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/

by PWHjort on Nov 5, 2009 1:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

depends on the big bat

If we get a real cleanup guy, Chip’s avg and prob power will go up immediately

by traphicg on Nov 5, 2009 10:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

..................................

No?

Getting a big bat has nothing to do with Chipper’s production. His average and power will probably go up next year because he’s a fundamentally better player than his 2009 numbers.

http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/

by PWHjort on Nov 5, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nothing to do with?

When pitchers are afraid of only one person in the lineup, that person doesnt get pitches to hit. There’s a post from a while ago talking about Chip’s numbers once Tex came to us and batted 4th.

I agree that Chips 09 was a fluke, but before moving his order, we need to see if we can get that big bat.

by traphicg on Nov 5, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty much my point exactly

from below.

Way to steal my thunder! (Yes, I am being sarcastic)….

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

damn

you beat me by like seven minutes

by traphicg on Nov 6, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Old wive's tale

http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/

by PWHjort on Nov 9, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i would say that both are reasons why production was lower than expected… its not a mutually exclusive scenario, both the fact McCann or GA were batting behind him most of the year led to him getting bad pitches and him trying too hard… and the fact that 09 was really just a fluky bad season that isnt necessarily reflected by his numbers…

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 5, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LaRussa

He put McGwire in the 2 hole just to ensure that he gets the potential to get more ABs, later in games. I don’t necessarily think this is a bad idea, but when you make the references to ADHD, Chipper is kind of that way in regards to not being in the 3 hole. I have no doubt that he would do it if it were for the good of the team, but he’s demonstrated some opposition to batting outside of 3rd, and in this past year, he went 0/5 with 2BB and a K batting 4th.

Career-wise, Chipper’s a .291 with a .900+ OPS from the 4 and 2 holes, but as long as Bobby Cox is in the helm, Chipper in the 3rd spot is going to be auto-pilot.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Nov 5, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Very true

Chipper will be batting 3rd. Put Chip 2nd isn’t a bad idea on paper, but then again, putting Chipper in LF back in ’02 was a good idea on paper as well.

And also, I see Chipper really rebounding and having a great year in 2010. It’s Bobby’s last year, and statements from Chipper strongly suggest that he is going to work hard to make sure he is back to his old hitting self.

Does anyone else think he will do great next year? I’m expecting a year that looks like this:

.310/.415/.530 I’m guessing he’ll hit about 25 homers.

You say to-mah-to, I say you're retarded.

by alligatorimpersonator on Nov 5, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Whenever I hear a player admit that he hated the year he had, I have to believe that he is gonna come back in the best shape he has been in awhile. He can come back, not mess with that world baseball classic stuff, and have a solid spring training of hitting and golf.

by McCann and McWill on Nov 5, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Chipper should remain in the 3 spot

Even without the power, Chipper is an RBI machine in the lineup and still one of the more dangerous hitters in the game. The focus should be on getting a bat behind him so that he sees better pitches (may bring some of his power back too).

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 11:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Chipper

There really is no reason at this point to move Chipper in the lineup. I agree, I thought about it, but it really wouldn’t change a thing. I think that McCann should hit 5 or 6. If this team stays basically the same I would go with this.

McClouth
Diaz
Chipper
Laroche ( or his replacement )
Escobar
McCann
Prado
RF? eventually Heyward by all-star break.

I don’t think that they will resign Laroche. I guess it depends on how quickly they can unload Lowe, Vasquez or Kawakami. Nady is an option that may come much cheaper than Laroche. If Lowe is traded, I wouldn’t be supprised they make a solid offer at Holliday.

by wcubmac on Nov 5, 2009 3:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

lead off

At least we won’t have to watch him candy hop into double play after double play. No doubt on the second double play he’ll pull a hammy and be day to day for three weeks. I’m jumping on the sign Mike Lowell band wagon I think we could get a full year at third between the two.

by BravesfaninMontana on Nov 5, 2009 5:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs