Submit Your Own Top-25 Braves Prospects
by gondeee on Nov 28, 2009 8:00 AM EST
131 comments
Every year after the crew of Talking Chop is done giving you our overview of the top-25 prospects in the Atlanta Braves organization, we ask you to submit your own version of the top-25 Braves prospects. The instructions are simple: in the comments section of the this post create a new comment with your list in the body of the comment. Be sure and number them accordingly, with 1 being the top prospect. Only submissions with 25 prospects listed will be considered for the final tally.
The comments will be open for a week, and then I will tally up all the lists and we will have our community top-25.
Please use the MLB rules for determining who is a rookie and who is not. For instance, the following players are not eligible for this list because they are no longer rookies: Jordan Schafer, Brandon Jones, Jo-Jo Reyes.
Good luck!
0 recs |
131 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
My top 25:
1. Jason Heyward
2. Julio Teheran
3. Craig Kimbrel
4. Mike Minor
5. Freddie Freeman
6. Cody Johnson
7. Zeke Spurill
8. Randall Delgado
9. Brett DeVall
10. Adam Milligan
11. Christian Bethancourt
12. J.J. Hoover
13. Edgar Osuna
14. Dimaster Delgado
15. Cory Gearrin
16. JacobThompson
17. Jose Ortegano
18. Cole Rohrbough
19. Brandon Hicks
20. David Hale
21. Scott Diamond
22. Erik Cordier
23. Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburg
24. Tyler Stovall
25. Todd Redmond
by GouldisGold on Nov 28, 2009 9:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
my 25
1 Jason Heyward
2 Julio Teheran
3 Freddie Freeman
4 Mike Minor
5 Christian Bethancourt
6 Zeke Spruill
7 Craig Kimbrel
8 Randall Delgado
9 JJ Hoover
10 Brett DeVall
11 Cody Johnson
12 Edgar Osuna
13 Dimaster Delgado
14 Adam Milligan
15 Jose Ortegano
16 Jacob Thompson
17 Scott Diamond
18 Brandon Hicks
19 Cory Gearrin
20 Tyler Stovall
21 Cole Rohrbough
22 David Hale
23 Benino Pruneda
24 Robert Hefflinger
25 Robinson Lopez
by BlueVol03 on Nov 28, 2009 10:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Robinson Lopez~! Someone stole my full list.
by bigjoe on Nov 28, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1. Jason heyward
2. Freddie Freeman
3. Julio Teheran
4. Craig kimbrel
5. Mike Minor
6. Cody Johnson
7. Zeke Spruill
8. Christian Bethancourt
9. Randall delgado
10. Adam Milligan
11. Brett DeVall
12. JJ Hoover
13. Cory Gearrin
14. Cole Rohrbough
15. Jose ortegano
16. Edgar osuna
17. Brandon hicks
18. Dimaster delgado
19. Jacob Thompson
20. David hale
21. RSF
22. Scott diamond
23. Kevin Gunderson
24. Robinson lopez
25. Caleb brewer
Also, dont trade javier vazquez.
by esadb on Nov 28, 2009 11:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
1- Jason Heyward
2- Julio Teheran
3- Freddie Freeman
4-Christian Betancourt
5-Zeke Spruill
6-Robinson Lopez
7-Mike Minor
8-Craig Kimbrel
9-Cody Johnson
10-Jose Ortegano
11-Adam Milligan
12-Randall Delgado
13-Brett Devall
14-Cody Gearrin
15-Mychal Jones
16-Cole Rohrbough
17-JJ Hoover
18-Brandon Hicks
19-David Hale
20-Cory Rasmus
21-Gerry Rodriguez
22-Andy Otero
23-Edison Sanchez
24-Riann Spanjer Furstenberg
25-Donnell Linares
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 28, 2009 12:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Since we're doing explanations, I'll give mine....
I haven’t seen anyone, so everything I did was all off numbers and I really don’t like my list after 15 either. But then it seems so much of the talent is young, and without much time if any above A/rookie ball, so who knows what any of them turn out to be.
1-I think we all agree here
2-The reported stuff, I think as he fills out and matures physically as well and probably adds a few mph and better control, is just too potentially good it seems. The injury history makes me hesitant.
3-Big, and been great at a young age. Even if he stalls a bit, he’ll be 20 in AA/AAA next year and has more than enough time to work on some things over the next year or two. The drop off at AA has the injury, so next year should give a better idea of what he’s capable of above A ball.
4-The age gets me. He did well at DSL, and again this year. I just think he has a strong year in A ball this season and vaults up the lists.
5-Age, stuff, and production at the lower levels. Plus the pics of him make it seem like he’ll really mature physically over the next 18 months and like Teheran add mph and control with stronger body/legs/arm/hands.
6-If age is accurate, that’s a great season.
7-Might should have him higher, but hasn’t had enough time to show out with the MLB required delay in signing. Also think the others have higher ceilings.
8-I’m thinking Wohlers. Struggles early with his control in a set up role, then figures it out and is absolutely untouchable for a couple seasons before losing control again and slowly declining out of the league.
9-So young, so much power. I think he has two years to work on his swing and pitch recognition in AA and still be younger than Ryan Howard was being drafted.
10-So many call him a soft tosser, but cb says different. If cb’s report on stuff is right, considering age and level would be higher. If all those reports of soft tossing, probably lower, so I split the baby.
11-Like Minor, small sample size. Repeat next year and shoot up the charts.
12-If second half was the player, should be higher. And the more I think about it, definitely should be higher. As he matures physically, his stuff would think quality reliever at best. On second thought, should flip him and Lopez.
13-Is he hurt or not? And with modern medicine, a good surgery won’t hurt him over the long run.
14-Probably should be higher, but role/stuff means others have higher “ceiling”.
15-For some reason I’m thinking he can develop into Chone Figgins.
16-Risk/Reward, Such great stuff, but seems so fragile and getting worse as he rises levels.
17-Impressive K/BB numbers. Seems to have less room for growth physically than others, so I wonder if he is as successful as he rises levels and others he competes against mature.
18-The Derosa discussion the other day makes me think he can at least make an impact at a Jose Hernandez level.
19-Think he could have a big time next year with a focus on pitching and explode in A ball.
20-If finally healthy, I just think he has a great next season at Myrtle/Mississip and warrants this spot.
21-Not sure why, just like him.
22-Unreal numbers, and ultimately could prove worthy of being much higher, much lower, or just right, but thought he at least earned a spot with the #s last year at that age.
23-Like Otero, just had the numbers at the age to warrant a chance to really jump up the charts next year. Plus liked the reported size and think he could warrant being much higher if he succeeds and matures physically in the GCL/Danville next year.
24-Think he was just advanced for the league, and riding a great hot streak, but the #s mean he gets a spot considering who else there is to chose from.
25-Thought he played well in his first year stateside, and has a big next season in Mississippi. But age limits him.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 29, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i need some more elaboration on #1
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
by Doghnut on Nov 30, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No Erik Cordier anywhere?
Also, Bethancourt probably shouldn’t be in the top 10. He was a nice surprise, but don’t expect him to keep it up.
by GouldisGold on Nov 28, 2009 12:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
really? you are advocating a 24 year old who hasnt made it out a ball and denouncing a 17 year old catcherwith big upside in the same sentence. how do you suppose bethancourt cant keep it up?
by yondaime4 on Nov 28, 2009 12:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
First off, notice how I DIDN’T rank Cordier higher than Bethancourt.
I think Cordier could be a good setup guy in the future, as long as he stays healthy. And from what I’ve heard about Bethancourt, he is a good defensive player, but his hitting ability is nothing special.
by GouldisGold on Nov 28, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i didnt say you ranled them differently just that your priorities with prospects seems off. and again bethancourt posted a well above average ops as a 17 year old in an organized league this year. cant really see how anyone can raise questions against his bat given his age and performance thus far
by yondaime4 on Nov 28, 2009 12:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhhh
What he did was not really a surprise. He has great ability
Also, dont trade javier vazquez.
by esadb on Nov 28, 2009 12:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll admit I don’t know that much about Bethancourt, but from the scouting reports I’ve read, he is a great defensive catcher, but not a great hitter.
by GouldisGold on Nov 28, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see ranking Bethancourt #11...
…he has looked good but is very young and hasn’t gone very far. Also, catching prospects tend to have a tougher time developing because they have to concentrate more on defense to the detriment of working on their hitting. I will have him higher than that only because I just don’t see anyone better.
However, it is hard to take any list that has Freeman ranked fifth seriously. I can understand that people could have doubts about him, and while I disagree, I can see people putting Teheran above him. (I won’t because pitching prospects are always more iffy due to injury concerns and Teheran is very young and hasn’t gone that far in the organization yet.) But putting Kimbrell and Minor, both with limited upside (Minor doesn’t have the stuff, Kimbrell lacks control and relief pitchers are just not as valuable as starters and that limits his upside.)
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 28, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The main reason I ranked Freeman 5th is mainly because of the disturbing dropoff last year. I know he had the wrist injury, but you’d think he would still be better, even with the injury.
Also, I like Kimbrel a lot. I could see why you would say Minor has limited upside, but not Kimbrel. His control is an issue, but it’s a common issue among young pitchers. Even if he can’t conquer the contol problems, he could still be a dominant closer. I can deal with the walks it he strikes out 15 batters per 9.
by GouldisGold on Nov 28, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kimbrell has limited upside...
…because he is a relief pitcher. The best closers in history have thrown approximately 1,000 innings.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would you say Mariano Rivera has limited upside? He has been a huge part of the Yankees’ success over the past 15 years. The importance of a dominant closer can’t be underestimated.
by GouldisGold on Nov 28, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And, no, he can't be a dominant closer...
…if he doesn’t harness his control problems. You can deal with a certain number of walks, but not that many. Counting the AFL, he had 61 BB in 70.1 IP. That number has to be brought down.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but Kimbrel will work on his control and Gold is obviously counting on him to improve. I agree with you – I wouldn’t put him that high because he’s a reliever – but it isn’t that unreasonable.
by acie4mvp on Nov 28, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he has him to high, but
as you say, it is reasonable, except for the part about putting him ahead of Freeman.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what disturbing droppoff from Freeman? Was is the disturbing .394 OBP he posted in Myrtle Beach? Or the fact that he led the Pelicans in doubles while he was there? The surprisingly low strike out rate? Or the injury influenced 150 ABs he put up in Mississippi?
by yondaime4 on Nov 28, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His .408 slugging % isn't exactly stellar.
Neither are his stats from Mississippi. I know it’s a big jump, but look at what Heyward did at that level.
by GouldisGold on Nov 28, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s not Jason Heyward! I don’t see one person on this thread who has Freeman ahead of Heyward; Heyward is clearly the better player, so there’s no point in comparing Freeman to him. Compare Freeman to everyone else.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 28, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he was 19. two levels ahead of guys like Randall Delgado and Zeke spruill who were the same age. And he had a wrist injury, the single most devastating injury a hitter can have to his upper body. Go look at the Danville roster and see how many 19 year olds played there this year.
by yondaime4 on Nov 28, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1. J. Heyward
2. F. Freeman
3. M. Minor
4. J. Teheran
5. Z. Spruill
6. C. Bethancourt
7. R. Delgado
8. C. Kimbrel
9. A. Milligan
10. J.J. Hoover
11. C. Gearrin
12. B. DeVall
13. C. Johnson
14. R. Sullivan
15. J. Thompson
16. M. Jones
17. C. Rohrbough
18. J. Ortegano
19. D. Hale
20. E. Osuna
21. T. Stovall
22. B. Oberholtzer
23. B. Hicks
24. A. Otero
25. B. Pruneda
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Nov 28, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’m really interested to hear the line of thinking that has Osuna and Ortegano behind Sullivan.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 28, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sullivan’s hard sinker has a much greater chance of getting major league hitters out than Osuna’s change.
Osuna’s fastball is too straight. He could be a reliever with that velocity with more movement but I didn’t notice any movement on his fastball.
We’ve had this conversation before. Guys like Osuna who survive on very marginal stuff struggle to get big league hitters out. There are a few around the league who do but the chances that Osuna is one of them is close to 0. I’m not trying hate on Osuna but its just the way things are.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Nov 28, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess. To me, Sullivan is a guy who’s slightly older than the other two, hasn’t had the level of success at Myrtle Beach those guys have had, hasn’t even had a chance to have the level of success at Mississippi those guys have had, doesn’t have the track record those two have and, overall, has equal if not slightly lesser stuff than those two.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 28, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you might be a little more focused on results than I am. For prospects, results are important but are meaningless without stuff. Osuna has one plus pitch in his changeup and is maxed out fastball wise. Sullivan’s fastball has a little more velo and a lot more movement. There’s a chance Sullivan can be taught to improve his secondary stuff but you can’t teach the armstrength advantage he has over Osuna. How many pitchers in the majors do you know who have a straight FB usually around 86-87 and a plus change and are big league average?
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Nov 28, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know where you’re getting some of these numbers. The two times I saw Osuna this year he was throwing his FB between 90 and 93 and the one time I saw Sullivan he was throwing it between 91 and 94.
And, if Osuna supposedly has worse stuff, then why, at similar levels, has he been more successful. I don’t think results are entirely important, but when you’re looking at two guys the same age at the same level, they’re worth looking at.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 28, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I agree with both of you.
Unfortunately, I don’t see any of them doing much at the major league level.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I note that you are consistent in talking down the mid-tier prospects’ potentail for success at the ML level, and I suppose it is very realistic to think the substantial majority of mid-tier prospects will never reach or be very successful in the majors.
But, I’m thinking two or four of these non-top 8 – 10 guys may against the odds make an impact. At the least, it seems it is hard to rule it out at this point.
by fandave on Nov 28, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Which is why when talking about any two or three of them, I don’t think they have a very large chance of doing much at the major league level. Outside of the top 10, there might be two or three of the guys from 11-40 making an impact in the majors. That is a less than 10% chance for any one individually. Somebody will do it because some players just figure it out or develop later, but it is almost impossible to figure out who will in advance.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. For the reality of who is or will be really good, we have just have to wait and see. Only time will tell … and all that, etc.
All of the rest is mere opinion, some of which may be somewhat more educated or insightful than some other … or not.
by fandave on Nov 28, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Osuna didn’t touch 90 when I saw him last summer. Sullivan’s fastball velocity isn’t the biggest draw with him, its that it has glove side run and sink. I’m not even saying I think he’s a starter. I think he’s got a fair shot to be a 80 inning a year guy who could be a big help as a multiple inning reliever. Sean Marshall is fair comp. Osuna needs to focus on the 2 seamer. If he can get a little run on it, maybe I’d be a believer but I don’t think he’ll keep the ball in the park well enough to be an average arm.
As far as Osuna being better at similar levels, he has better command and a good changeup. For a lefty, that is more than enough to get minor league hitters out. Sullivan doesn’t have the polished secondary offerings that Osuna does and I think thats the biggest part of Osuna’s greater success thus far.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Nov 29, 2009 3:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are all fair points, and if you prefer the stuff that’s your preference. But, I guess what I’m saying is if the other guys, who are a little younger, are being more successful, with lesser stuff, doesn’t that say something? I get that you think that Sullivan’s stuff will surpass them, but, for the moment, those guys seem to have the advantage.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 3:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I understand your point and the fact that Osuna pitched well at AA is a good sign for him and the organization. Osuna has a plus pitch in his own right, I just think Sullivan’s will be throwing his plus pitch 70% of the time while Osuna can’t pitch off of his change.
Another thing to consider is Osuna could gain strength. It would be an unusual growth pattern but he could still put on 20 (good) lbs. Maybe that would help him generate more life on his FB. Hopefully I’m dead wrong and he turns into Johan Santana.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Nov 29, 2009 3:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My top 25
1. Heyward
2. Freeman
3. Teheran
4. Minor
5. Kimbrel
6. Spurril
7. Johnson
8. Bethancourt
9. Milligan
10. R. Delgado
11. Hoover
12. Osuna
13. D. Delgado
14. Ortegano
15. Gearrin
16. Hicks
17. Thompson
18. Diamond
19. Rohrbough
20. Oberholtzer
21. Otero
22. Hale
23. Pruneda
24. Redmond
25. RSF
Delete the other one CB. Thanks broski.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 28, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I just hope I don’t get drunk on my ridiculously small amount of power.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 28, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“With no power, comes no responsibility.”
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 28, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just how I like it.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 28, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1. Jason heyward
2. Freddie Freeman
3. Julio Teheran
4. Mike Minor
5. Craig Kimbrel
6. Randall Delgado
7. Zeke Spruill
8. Christian Bethancourt
9. Brett DeVall
10. Dimaster Delgado
11. Cody Johnson
12. Jose Ortegano
13. Riann Spanjer-Furstenburg
14. Adam Milligan
15. JJ Hoover
16. Cory Gearrin
17. Cole Rohrbough
18. Edgar Osuna
19. Brandon Hicks
20. Jacob Thompson
21. David Hale
22. Scott Diamond
23. Kevin Gunderson
24. Robinson Lopez
25. Caleb Brewer
by call_me_chipper on Nov 28, 2009 4:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I had brewer in my top 25 (22 i think) and Lopez was at 26 on my final list. I also tossed Otero in there at 25. Don’t know much about them (well a little about brewer) but you have to reward youth and stats a little.
by yondaime4 on Nov 28, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1. Jason Heyward RF
2. Freddie Freeman 1B
3. Julio Teheran SP
4. Craig Kimbrel RP
5. Zeke Spruill SP
6. Mike Minor SP
7. Cody Johnson LF
8. Randall Delgado SP
9. Christian Bethancourt C
10. J.J. Hoover SP
11. Cole Rohrbough SP
12. Dimaster Delgado SP
13. Adam Milligan OF
14. Cory Gearrin RP
15. Brett Oberholtzer SP
16. Mycal Jones SS
17. David Hale RP
18. Brandon Hicks SS
19. Edgar Osuna SP
20. Jacob Thompson SP
21. Scott Diamond SP
22. Kevin Gunderson RP
23. Tyler Stovall SP
24. Chris Masters SP
25. Erik Cordier P
by eaheckman10 on Nov 28, 2009 4:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Masters
I was really debating about putting him in the top 25…I think he’s probably like 27th on my list.
by blindsided789 on Nov 28, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
here's mine
1. Jason Heyward
2. Freddie Freeman
3. Julio Teheran
4. Mike Minor
5. Randall Delgado
6. Craig Kimbrel
7. Christian Bethancourt
8. Cody Johnson
9. Brandon Hicks
10. Zeke Spruill (for some reason don’t see him maintaining his #s as he moves up)
11. Adam Milligan
12. Edgar Osuna
13. Brett Devall
14. JJ Hoover
15. Dimaster Delgado
16. Jacob Thompson
17. Cole Rohrbough
18. Tyler Stovall
19. David Hale
20. Cody Gearrin
21. Todd Redmond
22. Mycal Jones
23. Erik Cordier
24. Scott Diamond
25. RSF
by abravesfan on Nov 28, 2009 5:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hicks 9th?
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 28, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, just a preference thing
i think he’s a solid utility player right now, with upside if his power translates, i’ll take someone who seems a solid bet make our 25 man roster in the next year over a lot of these arms that are a little old and still in the low minors, the majority of which won’t turn into anything more than fungible arms
by abravesfan on Nov 28, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how he could be a solid...
…utility player in the majors right now. He can’t hit over .240 in AA. That doesn’t translate to anything above the Mendoza line in the majors. There is still hope, but he is getting older and needs to start hitting soon.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he was playing in one of the two or three worst hitters parks in the minors this year and showed some late season improvement along with a decent AFL showing. Not saying I like the strikeouts, but I haven’t given up on him yet.
by yondaime4 on Nov 28, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has a chance
which is why I put him #25 on my list. Still, even a bad hitting park in AA won’t translate to better numbers in the majors.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My list.
1. Jason Heyward
2. Freddie Freeman
3. Mike Minor
4. Julio Teheran
5. Christian Bethancourt
6. Randell Delgado
6. Craig Kimbrel
7. Cody Johnson
8. Brett DeVall
9. Zeke Spruill
10. Benino Pruneda
11. Adam Milligan
12. JJ Hoover
13. Edgar Osuna
14. Brandon Hicks
15. Dimaster Delgado
16. Mycal Jones
17. Cole Rohrbough
18. Cory Gearrin
19. Cody Johnson
20. Caleb Brewer
21. Kyle Rose
22. Jacob Thompson
23. Wei Huang
24. Scott Diamond
25. Erik Cordier
by joejoe146 on Nov 28, 2009 6:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cody 19th. Just wow.
To me, he should be in almost everyone’s top 10.
by fandave on Nov 28, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He isn't in my top 10
He screams Mike Hessman. If he could cut the K’s down to 125 or even 150 next year, he would jump in my rankings but 175 K’s in single A without improvement would lead to 275 K’s in the majors and that just doesn’t work.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, the guy obviously screwed up...
…he has Cody Johnson at #7 as well.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here we go with my list
I figured since I was commenting on others, I guess I should post mine, with some commentary.
1. Jason Heyward
Not much to say here, glaringly obvious.
2. Freddie Freeman
He seems obvious at #2 to me. Teheran has huge upside, but is very young and pitchers on the whole are greater risks (especially vis-a-vis injury)
3. Julio Teheran
Huge upside, huge risk. Almost the anti-Mike Minor. Beats the next two by a very small margin.
4. Mike Minor
Low upside of an innings eater 3/4 starter. Downside of Jeremy Sowers. Is this high because chance of reaching potential is high.
5. Randall Delgado
Good stuff. Needs to work on secondary pitches, but even if he doesn’t, he could make a good reliever. I think he has a better chance of being the Braves’s closer than Kimbrell.
6. J.J. Hoover
While he might not have great pure stuff, his K numbers show he knows how to miss bats. That is a big plus to me for minor league pitchers—-if you can’t strike out minor leaguers, big leaguers will eat you alive.
7. Zeke Spruill
Better upside than the pitchers that follow. The farther we go down the list, the more upside matters—-I prefer guys with a chance to be good to those with no upside but a good chance of being scrub major leaguers.
8. Christian Bethancourt
I don’t really want him this high because catching prospects are notoriously unreliable. However, pitching prospects are even more unreliable, and we don’t have many other position player prospects. Looked good last year, time will tell as he moves up.
9. Dimaster Delgado
Above the other sloop tossing lefties because of the higher K rate last year. Possibly not justified.
10. Adam Milligan
He has upside. Honestly doesn’t belong in the top 10, but I don’t like the other choices for here either. Maybe he’ll pan out.
11. Craig Kimbrell
The control issues bother me and I think most of the good major league relievers are minor league starters (possibly like Randall Delgado) but this is changing a bit. Maybe I am just disappointed with the AFL showing which was pretty craptastic (16 BB in 10 IP).
12. Cory Gearrin
I almost put him above Kimbrell. Not nearly as good K rate, but still strong and much better control. Still limited upside as a minor league reliever.
13. Cole Rohrbough
He could be a complete bust, but at least he has upside.
14. Cody Johnson
I really have no idea where to put this guy. The power is great, but the K’s are killer and the defense is bad. I think he has a 80% chance of being Mike Hessman and only a 2% chance of being Adam Dunn. Still, that’s better than a 20% chance of being a LOOGY, so I slot him here.
15. Andy Otero
At this point in the rankings, I put upside above guys who could become loogies.
16. Brett DeVall
Again, upside, but unfortunately, he is the reminder of why pitching prospects are so unreliable. The injury potential is very high.
17. Edgar Osuna
I honestly don’t think he’ll be more than a LOOGY or mediocre 5th starter, but we are at 17 now, so that’s what’s left.
18. Jose Ortegano
See Osuna.
19. Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburg
Too old for his league, but not bad for a professional debut. At least he has some upside.
20. Tyler Stovall
At this point it is all pretty much guess work.
21. David Hale
22. Jacob Thompson
23. Benino Pruneda
24. Brett Oberholtzer
25. Brandon Hicks
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 7:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I disagree heavily on a number of guys, but I really appreciate you putting your explanation with your picks.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 28, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool
that’s why I added the commentary. I’d be interested in where you disagree and why.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but let me do that tomorrow, it’s too late tonight.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, it’s the light of day. Here are the places I disagree the most.
Osuna and Ortegano so low. I guess if you think they should be that far down that’s your perogative, but having Rohrbough, who is older and hasn’t even come close to their level of success, pitched worse at MB and couldn’t even get up to Miss, where the other two were better than they were at MB, just seems crazy. I know everyone loves Rohrbough from all his early hype, but those two have the stuff and are actually producing.
Hoover ahead of Spruill. Hoover had a great year, but he was 3 years older than Spruill at the same level, and Spruill pitched just as good as he did. Spruill has a much more projectable body and better stuff, Hoover just knows how to pitch better at this point. Seems like the opposite criteria of the Ortegano and Osuna/Rohrbough picks.
Cody Johnson at 14. I know the knocks on him, but how the best power prospect in baseball can’t even be a top 10 in his own system is baffling to me.
Any other issues are just personal preference, those were the only ones that seemed glaringly questionable to me. I probably wouldn’t have put Otero ahead of DeVall, but I think if I did my list again I would have found a place for him. But your list is you list and I appreciate your reasoning, even if I disagree with a bit of it.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the comments...
…in response, I think you are probably right about Hoover—-he should be a few spots lower due to his age. Cody Johnson at 14 is my compromise—-as I noted, I don’t know what to think of him. I disagree with your assertion that he is the best power prospect in baseball—-he may have the most power of any prospect in baseball, but there are plenty of power prospects who are better prospects, hence better power prospects. Mike Stanton, Jesus Montero, Freddie Freeman, and Jason Heyward, all power prospects come to mind.
My low ranking of Johnson, which seems at odds with my philosophy ranking Osuna and Ortegano, really isn’t. My philosophy is to look at skills shown in the minors much more than results. I don’t think Johnson’s skill set, with poor defense and really bad contact rates is likely to make him a productive major league player. Similarly, I don’t think Osuna and Ortegano have shown a skill set that makes them likely to be productive major leaguers. You seem to think they have better stuff than others do; if that is true, I would rate them higher, but the majority of what I have read is that they are slop tossing lefties. Unlike what you expressly said in your list, I do have something against finesse lefties—-the success rate of finesse lefties is very small. I think that the search for the next Glavine is primarily a futile endeavor (which is why I really liked Glavine, he succeeded in a major way with a skill set with which most fail) and you find tons and tons of Horatio Ramirezes for every Glavine or Moyer.
One other note, which is not related to your comments is that I would rate DeVall higher if I could confirm the seriousness of his injury. He was seriously downgraded because of it. If it is resolved as someone posted, he we rise on my list.
Anyway, that’s my thoughts on it. Thanks for sharing yours.
by cavebird on Nov 29, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff, this
there are plenty of power prospects who are better prospects, hence better power prospects
was particularly interesting.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd agree though cb...
Cody may have the most power of any prospect, but a 500 ft HR is no different on the scoreboard than a 450 ft shot, or one that barely clears the fence. His moon tower power is worthless if he can’t put the bat on the ball.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 30, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the thing though, he’s put the bat on the ball enough to set team records for home runs the last 2 years and be the first guy to hit 30 in the Carolina League in 12 years. I’m not saying the contact isn’t an issue, but it’s also shown signs of improvement over the years.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2009 2:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Improvement?
I am not seeing any improvement in Johnson’s contact rates.
2006: 127 PA, 49 K (K in 36.8% of PA) (GCL)
2007: 270 PA, 72 K (K in 26.7% of PA) (Danville)
2008: 514 PA, 177 K (K in 34.4% of PA) (Rome)
2009: 518 PA, 180 K (K in 34.7% of PA) (mostly Myrtle Beach, cup of coffee with Mississippi).
Only 2007 did Johnson have significantly better contact rates than other years. Otherwise, he has been amazingly consistent in his ability to miss the baseball.
by cavebird on Dec 1, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, statistically it’s been the same. From a fundamental hitting perspective, it’s drastically changed.
It’s fine, I know the Cody haters want to keep pushing it, that way if he fails they can say ‘I told you so’ and if he succeeds they can say ‘he must have improved all those things I said he needed to’. It’s just easier to have no faith in the guy.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s not make this personal, guys. I think there are two things we can all agree upon. 1) Cody Johnson has an extremely high ceiling. 2) He’s struggled with contact rates. Whether or not 2 is correctable is the main topic of debate, and we really have no idea of knowing if it is or not.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Dec 1, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cody has some great assets.
just sayin.
by Lizziebeth on Dec 2, 2009 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That I just don't understand
How can something not change statistically but still drastically change from a fundamental hitting perspective? I mean, when he swings, either he makes contact or he wiffs. And if he is wiffing at the same rate, how has his contact ability drastically changed from a fundamental hitting perspective?
Don’t get me wrong, I am not a Cody hater—-I have nothing against him. As a Braves fan, I hope he figures it out and becomes a great player for years to come. I have no interest in saying I told you so if he fails. I’d much rather cheer for him in Atlanta. I just don’t think that the success rate for hitters with that high of a strikeout rate in singe A is very high. That’s why I place him lower in a list of prospects than others do. It’s not hating, it is simply my opinion on who are the best prospects in the system.
by cavebird on Dec 1, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see your list as well...
..I assume it was in the rankings as a third of it, but I’d love to see each individual list from those posted.
by cavebird on Nov 28, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I guess we’re posting ours too, so I’ll do that too (tomorrow as well). Gotta check if there are any changes I want to make.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As requested, here was my top-25:
1. OF Jason Heyward – not really a question
2. 1B Freddie Freeman – he’d be #1 in a lot of systems
3. P Julio Teheran – if he progresses right he should be an ace
4. P Zeke Spruill – great body, at worst he’ll be an effective innings eater, could be an ace
5. C Christian Bethancourt – once you see this kid you understand, he’s a giant as a baby, very exciting, especially considering the defense
6. OF Cody Johnson – I’d like to put him higher, but this seems right, I believe his hitting will develop enough to let the power shine, and his defense isn’t that awful
7. P Craig Kimbrel – needs to get the walks in check but he’s a special arm out of the pen
8. P Mike Minor – possibly should be ahead of Kimbrel, I think he’s going to beat some expectations
9. P Edgar Osuna – very polished, very young, and better than he’s been given credit for
10. P Jose Ortegano – maybe should be ahead of Osuna because of the stuff but keeps getting outpitched by his best friend, still incredibly impressive
11. OF Adam Milligan – if he’s really as good as he was in 2009 he’ll be near the top of the list next year
12. P Brett DeVall – I didn’t let the injury affect my ranking, big impressive looking lefty
13. P Cory Gearrin – seems high for a guy who’s going to be a middle reliever but I think he’s a lock to be a good reliever
14. P Benino Pruneda – throws 100 mph but wears down because of small size. Still only 20 though, maybe should be lower
15. P DiMaster Delgado – beats Randall because he was younger and more consistent and he’s a lefty
16. P Randall Delgado – high on a lot of lists but I want to see him do it again, very impressive player though with big strong body
17. P Brett Oberholtzer – arguably the best pitcher with Danville given his age, body seems designed to create great torque
18. SS Brandon Hicks – might be able to jump back toward the top of the list in 2010, lots of stuff to like but not as polished as you’d expect an older player to be
19. 1B-OF Gerry Rodriguez – might never be a star but he’s a consistent force and he’s still only 21
20. SS Myke Jones – impressive athlete who needs to show his skills quick cuase he’s a little older, still like him as a classic middle infielder
21. P Jeff Lyman – maybe the biggest reach on my list, I think he’s figured it out in the pen and I expect him to impact Atlanta in 2010
22. P Scott Diamond – younger than Hoover and playing two levels ahead, has been nothing but successful, finesse lefties don’t trouble me
23. P JJ Hoover – outstanding season and I’d probably move him ahead of a few guys now, but he was way too old for the league and doesn’t have much projection, seems likely to stall out at AA
24. C Matt Kennelly – again, maybe too high but I believe the bat will come around, he’s still very young
25. P Tyler Stovall – maybe should be higher but the walks are a little worrisome
So there it is. I see a few places where I might make some changes, but overall I’m good with it.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly think there is so much in A and rookie ball..
that so much of this is projection and unknown. Over the next year, I think a lot of the slots on this list will sort themselves out, but as of right now it’s just all young question marks. Very few are anything close to a polished product, and we should learn a lot more about these guys as they enter year 2 and 3 in the system, and start to play at higher levels. There could be a lot of big time prospects down there, or a lot of scrubs. I think 2010 is a big year for a lot of these players’ development.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 29, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The comments were very cool. Thanks.
I strongly disagree with the 2% Cody comment, because it is in my so wildly speculative – the %s could realistically be 50-50. It is an unknown unknowable whether he can/will make the necessary adjustments.
Also have no idea whatsoever why you are going negative on Milligan at this point.
BTW – I’m posting a list because after the the consenus top 10 or 12, mine would be pure guesswork.
by fandave on Nov 29, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about them,
but I’m a little negative on Milligan because of his poor BB rate. Also, his BABiP was sky-high, meaning he was pretty lucky. So his great numbers could have been a fluke, or he could be a really good hitter who doesn’t need to walk much to be valuable. I want to see more before I put him any higher.
by blindsided789 on Nov 29, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am holding out on Milligan’s poor walk rate for now because when guys are destroying baseball’s the way he was this summer a lot of times their natural ability to take a pitch degrades a little because they can hit everything. I have heard he can actually work the count really well but he just doesn’t walk much. You’re right, it is a red flag, but he has a lot of offensive potential currently and I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves me wrong. Which will probably be next year.
by yondaime4 on Nov 29, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m no stat geek and ain’t really so sure that I’m even into metriconomical analysis, but the BABIP avg being high equals luck meme is crap. A ball in play can be a weak ass pop up or a nubbed, weak ass grounder, or it be a screaming line drive or moon shot off the top of the centerfield wall. So, the point is how hard is the ball being struck and how consistently.
by fandave on Nov 29, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and I would argue with his high XBH % that he was probably making good, solid contact fairly consistently and that his high BABIP was not due to luck but due to well struck baseballs.
by yondaime4 on Nov 29, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He does have an above-average line drive % , which is good, but I don’t think you can say a .400 BABIP isn’t owed partly to luck. When his unintentional walk % is 4.9%, he’s pretty much completely relying on hitting the ball hard. I just want to see how he does with more at-bats before I put him very high.
by blindsided789 on Nov 29, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my top 25
1. Jason Heyward – obvious.
2. Julio Teheran – I like him a lot. Good GB rate, potential for great K rate, and still very young.
3. Freddie Freeman – I don’t think he’s going to be a typical first baseman, but I think he’ll combine good hitting skills with good defense to become well above-average.
4. Randall Delgado – Excellent second half really shot him up this list.
5. Christian Bethancourt – Outstanding season. Great defense and great offense.
6. Zeke Spruill – Still has room to fill out, flashed some great potential.
7. Craig Kimbrel – you know the story. Excellent stuff, but needs to get his walk rate under control.
8. Mike Minor – I think he’ll be useful, but 3rd starter is probably as high as he’s got a chance of getting.
9. Cody Johnson – overall great numbers, but AA might prove to be too much of a challenge.
10. Jose Ortegano – I like him more than the other lefties because of his better velocity.
11. Dimaster Delgado – big numbers, and still really young. We’ll see how he does at higher levels.
12. J.J. Hoover
13. Benino Pruneda – huge K numbers are mixed with high walk totals. He’s still fairly young.
14. Scott Diamond – I like the GB numbers, the above average K numbers, and the handedness. I think he could be a good 4/5 starter type or reliever.
15. Cole Rohrbough – still has the talent, just needs to get his body and mind on track. I still believe in him.
16. Brett DeVall – I like him, but we’ll see what happens after the surgery.
17. Brett Oberholtzer – really good numbers, really long ways off.
18. Thomas Palica – I put him above Gearrin because he had better K numbers, is younger, and was at the same levels as Gearrin. They could be flipped though.
19. Cory Gearrin – I was surprised when I found out he’s already 23. No real success above A ball yet. I do like his GB rate.
20. Andy Otero – extremely young, with awesome numbers in rookie ball. He gets this spot based on upside.
21. Jake Hanson – Young 3B with great walk numbers and not great strikeout numbers. He’s a ways off, but I like his upside.
22. Adam Milligan – Had good numbers, but his walk totals just don’t excite me at all. Once his BABiP drops is he going to have the numbers?
23. Tyler Stovall – Could be higher, but the walks scare me. If he can find his control he could shoot up the list.
24. Edgar Osuna – Just doesn’t excite me at all. He might have a somewhat serviceable career as a 5th starter/LOOGY, but his low K numbers and low GB rate just isn’t a good combination. His best feature is that he’s still pretty young, so he could mature more.
25. Brandon hicks – I think he still has something left, but this is pretty much his last chance at redeeming himself.
by blindsided789 on Nov 28, 2009 11:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
you forgot JJ Hoover...
just kidding! thanks for the writeup. I agree with almost everything you said with the exception of Milligan’s low rating and D. Delgado’s high rating. Good stuff tho
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 28, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha whoops.
My bad. Hoover’s probably would’ve said something about his great numbers, but also being a bit old for his league.
by blindsided789 on Nov 28, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't forget him.
I just had other guys ahead of him. He’d be in the next 5 though.
by blindsided789 on Nov 29, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think i had my list to redo I might rank Ortegano ahead of Dimaster like you.
by yondaime4 on Nov 28, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it me
or have people been all pissy and defensive on TC lately? It was pretty easy going and relatively positive for a while…
Everyone needs to calm down. It’s just baseball. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Braves and I’m sure you do too, but in the end, the players are just regular guys like you and I are. They’re just a lot better at baseball than we are.
I don’t mean to rant, but I really enjoy Talking Chop. There’s no other Braves blog that comes close to it. The write-ups are great and the coverage is fantastic. However, if it turns into nothing but bitching and arguing in the threads, it’s gonna be no fun to read. Maybe two people disagree on where a prospect should be ranked or who the Braves should sign; don’t make the other person feel like an idiot for it. State your case and move on. I’m like 99% sure Frank Wren could care less.
Sorry for this, but I was getting tired of all the arguing. Lets just all agree we that we love the game of baseball and that we’ll always have different opinions and beliefs. Just don’t try to make a person feel like an idiot or that they’re inferior because they don’t share the same ideas as you. That’s just stupid.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 28, 2009 11:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No shit.
I’m on here everyday, and enjoy reading the latest news and everyone’s opinions. I take them for what they’re worth, fan opinions. After reading through this thread I’ve lost a lot of respect for some of so-called “knowledgeable” fans. Classless. I was going to post a comment similar to yours earlier today, and I’m glad someone shares my opinion.
by Mark Lempke on Nov 28, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s the offseason, this is what happens when there’s no baseball to keep us happy.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 2:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hope I didn't miss the cut off!
1. Jason Heyward – OF
2. Julio Teheran – SP
3. Freddie Freeman – 1B
4. Randall Delgado – SP
5. Zeke Spruill – SP
6. Craig Kimbrel – RP
7. Christian Bethancourt – C
8. Mike Minor – SP
9. J.J. Hoover – SP
10. Adam Milligan – OF
11. Cody Johnson – OF
12. Dimaster Delgado – SP
13. Edgar Osuna – SP
14. Jose Ortegano – SP
15. Robinson Lopez – SP
16. Brett DeVall – SP
17. Brandon Hicks – SS
18. Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburg – 1B
19. Brett Oberholtzer – SP
20. Caleb Brewer – SP
21. Kyle Rose – OF
22. Cory Harrlick – OF
23. Jacob Thompson – SP
24. Cole Rohrbough – SP
25. Andy Otero – SP
by Jay212033 on Nov 29, 2009 1:55 AM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
You’re good, this is tallying for a week.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you or Gondeee should make sure to keep this post near the top of the TC homepage, if it’s not too much trouble. Or even make a special link that takes people to it. I know it’s easy for stuff to get burried under write-ups, hot stove news, etc and a lot of people probably aren’t checking the site over the holiday weekend
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 29, 2009 3:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought of that too. I’m not sure how to do it, but gondeee probably knows. I think he’ll be back in the world of internet connectivity tomorrow.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 3:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder where Devall would be...
if we actually knew anything about the injury or surgery. If he had Tommy John and will miss all of next year, I think his spot would be a LOT different than if he only had something more minor and would be throwing in the instructional camp all spring.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 29, 2009 9:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
My top 25
1) Jason Heyward
2) Freddie Freeman
3) Julio Teheran
4) Mike Minor
5) Randall Delgado
6) Craig Kimbrel
7) Christian Bethancourt
8) Cody Johnson
9) Zeke Spruill
10) JJ Hoover
11) Adam Milligan
12) Dimaster Delgado
13) Jose Ortegano
14) Brett Devall
15) Robinson Lopez
16) Cory Gearrin
17) Tyler Stovall
18) Cole Rohrbrough
19) RSF
20) Brandon Hicks
21) Brett Oberholtzer
22) Andy Otero
23) Cory Harrilcheck
24) Mycal Jones
25) Chris Masters
by chopc on Nov 29, 2009 9:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brett DeVall
Let me give everyone the REAL news on Brett.
Brett had surgery about 5 weeks ago to remove a small bone spur that was causing some discomfort when pitching. The surgery was a success done by Dr, Andrews in Gulf Breeze, Fl.. The surgery and rehab is going so well that Dr. Andrews has move up the date for him to resume throwing to the middle of December.
Brett had very good numbers until he started having some pain. Expect Brett to come back even better this spring with a fire in his belly. After watching some of his competitors in the majors he knows he can pitch( not throw) effectively at the major league level.
I have watched everyone of the pitchers in the Braves organization and he is as good as anyone of them.
by PANHANDLEDAD on Nov 29, 2009 10:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
So he is going to be ready to throw in 2010? Well that’s great news, not just for the Braves but especially for Brett. Thanks.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep this is exactly what has happened. The Braves FO expects him to be ready for spring.
by yondaime4 on Nov 29, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
then he might deserve a spot much higher on these lists...
as in top 10-15. He has produced pretty well so far, so good health will be answer any of the current questions on him.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 29, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah I said somewhere on here that I didn’t rank him at all because of his injury. But if I redid this now he’d definitely be in the top 15 and maybe my top 10
by yondaime4 on Nov 29, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1. Jason Heyward – played at 19 and 20 years old and had wOBAs of .401, .467, and .408 going from A+ to AA to AAA. Are you kidding me?
2. Freddie Freeman – followed up a great 2008 with a solid 2009. Obviously the injury hurt, but before that his ISO dropped from .206 to .145. Still he’s only 20 – younger than Heyward
3. Julio Teheran – 18 years old with huge upside and good control, hopefully with more K’s on the way
4. Randall Delgado – debated putting him above Teheran. Great K rate and he pitched better this year than his ERA shows
5. Mike Minor – had a great debut and I think his upside is better than most think
6. Christian Bethancourt – added above average offense to his stellar defense
7. Craig Kimbrel – played at 4 levels and alternated good and bad. If he maintains his K rate and keeps his BB/9 around 5.5 or less, he’ll be a top of the line closer
8. J.J. Hoover – maybe the Braves’ most underrated prospect. A little old, but great K numbers with great control. FIP in A ball was 2.58 but he needs to move this season
9. Zeke Spruill – plus control and above average K rate. Only 19 (now 20) during the season he is very projectable
10. Brett DeVall – another young (19), projectable starter. Worry about injuries
11. Dimaster Delgado – really good K/9 and K/BB numbers. Lefty dominated this season with a 2.60 FIP but questions about his stuff
12. Cole Rohrbough – has the stuff and dominated in 08, but major step back in 09. Still has very good upside
13. Robinson Lopez – he’s 18 and just had a great season in rookie ball. Very impressive
14. Adam Milligan – great debut but it was buoyed by a high BAbip. I wasn’t very impressed with him, but he had great stats. He was 20 this season so not too old, but not very young either.
15. Cody Johnson – could turn into Jack Cust/Adam Dunn. Could turn into a lump of crap
16. Jose Ortegano – if CB is right, he has better stuff than I realized and he has pitched very well
17. Brandon Hicks – once considered the Braves’ future at 3B. Finished the second half strong after poor start
18. Cory Gearrin – a little old. Hasn’t done much outside of A ball
19. Scott Diamond – one of the Braves’ plethora of lefties with average to below average stuff. Could make an impact soon in the bullpen or back of the rotation
20. Caleb Brewer – great K numbers with poor control in rookie league. Has large upside
21. Cory Rasmus – maybe a stretch. Good numbers but too old for rookie ball and has had injury trouble
22. Tyler Stovall – great K numbers but terrible control. He’ll be 20 next season and if he can harness his control he has a bright future
23. Andy Otero – ridiculous numbers but he is very, very, very far away
24. David Hale – good looking reliever who is still a little raw even after college where he also played in the field. Strong debut numbers and could move quickly next season
25. Mycal Jones – had a nice debut with a wOBA of .356. Nice speed at SS where Braves lack depth/talent
by acie4mvp on Nov 29, 2009 12:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My Top-25
1. Jason Heyward – Best prospect in all of baseball.
2. Julio Teheran – 70 ceiling. Legit ace potential. 3 plus pitches, mid-upper 90’s fastball w/ loads of sink, plus change, plus curve.
3. Freddie Freeman – The wrist injury and bat speed decline in Mississippi keep him from being #2, but his ceiling is still there.
4. Christian Betancourt – Another 70 ceiling. Special bat and plus defense.
5. Craig Kimbrel – Two legit MLB swing-and-miss pitches right now.
6. Randall Delgado – Live arm. Please develop.
7. Zeke Spruill – Chance to have 4 pitches that are all at least average.
8. J.J. Hoover – Chance to have 2 above-average breaking pitches and an above-average change-up.
9. Adam Milligan – Cody Johnson who swaps some raw power for infinitely more valuable contact rates.
10. Cole Rohrbough – He’s had a few rough years, but the upside is still there.
11. Brett DeVall – Mike Minor except younger with slightly better stuff and a much worse bill of health.
12. Edgar Osuna – Mike Minor with worse stuff and a load more experience.
13. Mike Minor – Potential to have 2 above-average pitches (change-up, slider). High-80’s-to-low-90’s fastball, good feel for pitching.
14. Dimaster Delgado – Edgar Osuna a year ago.
15. Matt Young – Promising 2009 probably guarantees he’ll make it to the big leagues at some point in some role with some club.
16. Cody Johnson – 80 raw power. Decent walk rates. Horrible contact rates. Below-average defender in LF.
17. Benino Pruneda – Really interesting relief prospect. Live arm, he’s hit triple-digits before. Not much to go with it.
18. Jose Ortegano – Has “useful, yet unspectacular” written all over him.
19. Tyler Stovall – Highest ceiling lefty in the system. Two plus pitches, athletic, bad feel for pitching at this point.
20. David Hale – Chance for 2-plus pitches (fastball, change-up) and a 3rd average one (slider). Might have enough stuff/approach to make it as a starting pitcher.
21. Mycal Jones – A nice set of tools for a SS (good bat speed, solid approach, good defensively, plus base runner).
22. Brett Oberholtzer – Blue collar starter/swingman. Good hitter/fielder.
23. Chris Masters – Sleeper alert.
24. Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburg – Plus power potential. Defensively limited to 1B.
25. Caleb Brewer – Another sleeper alert. Returned from injury and showed he still had the good fastball/curveball. Change-up is a work in progress.
And, just for fun:
26. Cory Harrilchak – Nice approach/bat-speed/defense/base running, but not much power, especially for a corner OF.
27. Kyle Rose – Prototypical lead-off hitting center fielder.
28. Jeffrey Lorick – Better stuff than results in college. Chance to be a good set-up man or fringy mid-rotation starter.
29. Brandon Hicks – Does plenty well defensively and has plus power potential for a SS, but the contact issues may be too much to overcome at this point (he’s 24 years old).
30. Luis Sumoza – Francoeur v. 2.0. Plenty of tools, no idea how to use them.
31. Tyrelle Harris – Potential to shoot through the system quickly and become a useful reliever within two years.
32. Thomas Palica – Somewhat interesting reliever, nothing more.
33. Cory Gearrin – Plus control, but generally hittable stuff. Probably not much more than organizational filler.
34. Gerardo Rodriguez – Not much to like other than his power. Needs to develop his approach. Limited to 1B.
35. Scott Diamond – Struggled in his transition to the upper minors.
36. Angelo Paulino – Somewhat old and hasn’t really gotten much attention, but he’s a decent relief prospect at this point.
37. Yeliar Castro – Live arm. Probably a reliever. Needs much development. Extremely raw.
38. David Francis – Take away the no-hitter and nobody is even talking about him at this point.
39. Travis Jones – Everything fell apart for Travis Jones in the upper minors. I’m not optimistic.
40. Paul Clemens – Complete and comprehensive list of things Paul Clemens does to warrant consideration for this list: 1) throws a plus fastball.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 29, 2009 3:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Matt Young at 15?!? You know he’s going to be 27 this year right?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still like him, even given his age. I think he makes it to the majors in a Josh Anderson capacity at the least. Which isn’t something anyone dreams about, but it’s a huge difference in floor than a lot of players on the list.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 29, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do love me some Matt Young and I think he has more applicable skills than Anderson.
by yondaime4 on Nov 29, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sumoza above Gearrin and Palica? I don’t think Sumoza will even make it to the majors, but Gearrin and Palica at least have a shot at the bullpen. Sumoza has proven nothing at this point.
Diamond seems a bit low too…he was rather unlucky this season and actually had some decent numbers.
by blindsided789 on Nov 29, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s got a nice set of tools and there’s still a somewhat decent chance he’ll figure out how to use them, give his age. Regardless of what he’s proven. What he’s done isn’t important, only what he’s going to do.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 29, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But what he’s done actually is pretty important. He had a terrible season, and while he’s still young enough to figure it out, he didn’t really give any indication that he is going to figure it out. All his ratios are pretty bad. He is still a prospect; I just don’t think he deserves to be above guys like Gearrin and Palica who have a much better chance of making it to the big leagues.
by blindsided789 on Nov 29, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hanley Ramirez hit .275/.327/.403 in his first full season. Scouts opinions are much more relevant than results.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 29, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but the scouts opinions of Ramirez and Sumoza were pretty far apart.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course..
I didn’t say Sumoza = Ramirez, nor do I see how that could be inferred. My point was that, just in the case of Hanley Ramirez in his first full season (Single-A, 2003), Sumoza’s numbers have little predictive value. Players in Single-A have to get a great deal better before they can play in MLB. Numbers can’t tell us who is going to get better. Scouts have a much better idea of who will get better. And scouts opinions of him are much greater than that .665 OPS he put up this past season. Much closer to the .887 OPS he put up last year.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 29, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think when you bring up one name while discussing another, you’re begging for that inference, but whatever.
And yes, scouts do think Sumoza is better than how he performed this year, but there’s also got to be some credence given to his terrible performance, particularly compared to his previous performance. You point out Ramirez’s first season, but this was Sumoza’s fifth, and his first full season. You don’t find an over 200 point dropoff in his OPS production troubling?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 29, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You point out Ramirez’s first season, but this was Sumoza’s fifth, and his first full season.
I point out Ramirez first full season. Which was his 2nd season. He was 19 at the time. Sumoza was 20 last year, his first full season.
You don’t find an over 200 point dropoff in his OPS production troubling?
Could be a very bad omen. Could be nothing. I have no idea which it is. It’s certainly not good, but it’s possible that it means nothing. Especially at this point in his development.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 29, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez was also a shortstop, where his numbers were more acceptable. He was also about 2 years younger than Sumoza was in the same league.
by blindsided789 on Nov 29, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand the point though.
I think scouts’ opinions are important, but I think the end result is important too. You have to use them both to come to a conclusion. I think the general idea on Sumoza is that he’s very toolsy, but that’s not necessarily going to magically turn into good results.
by blindsided789 on Nov 29, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the general idea on Sumoza is that he’s very toolsy, but that’s not necessarily going to magically turn into good results.
The same could be said about many players that I ranked a lot higher than Sumoza. I ranked Christian Betancourt 4th. He’s 17 years old and as much of a sure thing as the mega millions ticket I bought earlier today (not quite that improbable, haha).
Anyway, maybe some people wouldn’t rank Sumoza 30th and I can certainly see why, but the argument can be made that he belongs there.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 29, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was 1 year younger, but that doesn’t make his numbers any more meaningful, I wouldn’t think.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 29, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s call it 1.5, because Sumoza turned 21 in July, while Ramirez was 19 his entire season in the SAL. And yes, age does have a meaning. It means Ramirez’s numbers were actually even more acceptable than Sumoza’s because he was playing against mostly older competition, and still holding his own.
I don’t think you can really compare Bethancourt and Sumoza. Bethancourt was 17 and had an awesome season, hitting well and playing (supposedly) great defense. Sumoza had a terrible season, is a few years older, and was one level ahead of Bethancourt.
You can say that a lot of the guys on the list are toolsy, but at least they’ve actually shown something that makes them worthy of their spot. Now maybe you see something in Sumoza, and you’re entitled to your opinion, so I’m not trying to say you’re wrong. I was just wondering why you thought he deserved that spot.
by blindsided789 on Nov 30, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless, this is my point. The numbers have little predictive value. Doesn’t matter if Sumoza is 28 or 15. It’s the Sally league. Scouting evaluations are much more important. And anyway, you can’t say Sumoza hasn’t shown anything. He hit 11 HR in 237 PA’s last year and posted a .887 OPS.
I don’t think you can really compare Bethancourt and Sumoza.
I didn’t. There’s a difference between using an example to illustrate a point and drawing a comparison.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 30, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What?
If he was 28 in the SAL then we wouldn’t even be talking about him as a prospect.
Yes numbers can’t predict the future per se. But they can be used to get a basic idea of how a player is going to perform.
Sumoza’s BB rate: something like 6%. That is terrible. Without walks, the entire value of a player is how often they can put the ball in play, and how lucky they can get on those balls put in play.
Sumoza’s K rate: something like 22%. Again, terrible, especially considering how little he walks. I’m not going to get into all of his other terrible ratios.
And yes, in 2008, he did show some good skills. His K rate was still unacceptable, however, and he was extremely lucky. (.382 BABIP) Those stats were also at rookie ball, where numbers mean even less.
by blindsided789 on Nov 30, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My Top 25 (currently)
1. Heyward
2. Freeman
3. Teheran
4. J.J. Hoover
5. R. Delgado
6. Minor
7. Milligan
8. Kody
9. Bethancourt
10. Spruill
11. Kimbrel
12. Oberholtzer
13. Hicks
14. Rohrbough
15. Ortegano
16. D. Delgado
17. Robinson Lopez
18. DeVall
19. Gerardo Rodriguez
20. Osuna
21. Chris Masters
22. David Francis
23. Redmond
24. Gearrin
25. Pruneda
by parish on Nov 30, 2009 4:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is as far as I’ve gotten so far. No spoilers, people. Blog it daily for the rest of the list.
26. Ernesto Mejia
27. Gerardo Rodriguez
28. Jaye Chapman
29. Todd Redmond
30. Riann Spanjer-Furstenburg
31. Jeff Lyman
32. Matt Crim
33. Tyrelle Harris
34. Cory Rasmus
35. David Hale
36. Ryne Reynoso
37. Brett Butts
38. Cory Harrilchak
39. Mycal Jones
40. Caleb Brewer
by bigjoe on Dec 1, 2009 4:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The 24 year old coming of a lost season ahead of the 21 year old who played arguably as well as the 24 year old the year before? Really?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 2, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
21. Edgar Osuna
22. Scott Diamond
23. Tommy Palica
24. Brandon Hicks
25. Tyler Stovall
by bigjoe on Dec 2, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hicks behind Palica? A dime a dozen lefty? Really?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 2, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1. Jason Heyward
2. Julio Teheran
3. Craig Kimbrel
4. Christian Bethancourt
5. Mike Minor
6. Freddie Freeman
7. Randall Delgado
8. Adam Milligan
9. Zeke Spruill
10. JJ Hoover
11. Cory Gearrin
12. Cody Johnson
13. Brett Oberholtzer
14. Cole Rohrbough
15. Brandon Hicks
16. Ortegano
17. Matt Crim
18. Cory Rasmus
19. Robinson Lopez
20. Caleb Brewer
21. Brett Devall
22. Mycal Jones
23. Andy Otero
24. Tyler Stovall
25. RSF
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Dec 4, 2009 10:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Done deal: Joe Mauer signs with Twins for 8 years, $184 million
- Joe Nathan's elbow tells him it's time for Tommy John surgery
- Small Twitter account creates big drama in White Sox camp
- John Danks sticks with the script — no matter the consequence
- Spring Snapshot: Will fresh faces produce a White Sox winner?
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
