Rumor Mill opinion poll
by scstrato on Nov 25, 2009 11:21 AM EST
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PrintFirst let me preface this by saying I am usually fairly tough on journalists. I get extra-ordinarily aggravated at them when they say things like "Garrett Anderson is a good fit for Atlanta" when every piece of evidence available says otherwise. Having said that, I have to say that I have been very pleased with Mark Bowman's recent performance. The guy has been spot on getting out quality information and busting rumors, that is until today. Not sure if this is Bowman's opinion or if he is getting his information from "team sources" but his article suggests that a Marlon Byrd signing would give us reason to trade Jordan Schafer.
Marlon Byrd: Coming off a season during which he hit .283 with 20 homers, Byrd will be attractive to a number of clubs looking for an affordable option to fill their outfield. If the Braves were able to grab him off the free-agent market, they would find themselves with more reason to explore the possibility of trading former top prospect Jordan Schafer.
So rather than go on a long, stat filled, rant about how ridiculous this suggestion is I thought I'd see how the Talking Chop community felt about it.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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marlon byrd is a one trick pony once he leaves the friendly hitting texas stadium. No way in the world that we need or even want Byrd and than decide that we could trade Schafer at his lower trade value now with an upside of a sizemore. Ridiculous notion and shouldn’t be listen to seriously. Byrd is a GA option ,,,Plan Z
Sizemore upside?
I think your getting a little carried away
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Nov 25, 2009 11:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think your getting a little carried away
No he isn’t. It’s an oft-drawn comparison.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
I've never heard that
I’ve heard things like “sizemore lite”, but Never that he could be a star like sizemore
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Nov 25, 2009 12:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Kevin Goldstein on Schafer around this time last year
The Good: Schafer’s tools rate as average or above across the board. He’s a patient hitter with a quick, quiet swing and at least average power. He’s a 60 runner and an even better center fielder because of his outstanding instincts, with one scout adding, "I don’t think I ever saw him break wrong on a ball." His arm is another weapon due to both its strength and accuracy.
Perfect World Projection: An everyday star-level center fielder who annually hits .300 with 20/20 power/speed numbers.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
I’ve heard the Sizemore Lite comp, but never that he was the second coming of Grady. He’s a nice player but he doesn’t have the same kind of power and despite what everyone tells me i don’t think he is as good a defender as sizemore
just don’t see it, what I have watched of him he has good range, but he looked awkward at times in the field and he hampered his good range with poor fielding. I understand the projectability but I think he has a ways to go before he gets there.
But look at it this way...
…almost everyone has Gold Glove projectability because the voters for Gold Gloves are more or less idiots. You don’t really have to be a good fielder to get one. Hell, Rafael Palmeiro got one in the 90’s at 1B one year despite playing on 30 or so games in the field and the rest at DH.
I've heard the comparison before
but that is a high prediction, I am not convinced he will ever reach it.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 30, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Mark Blowman
I think Wrens short track record would indicate that he wouldn’t make this type of move, unless he is blown away by the offer for Schafer and then sign Byrd to hopefully get some decent production cheaply. I certainly hope not though.
Relax
Marlon Byrd would be a huge mistake. Wren’s not Jim Bowden. Won’t happen.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
I vote none of the above.
I don’t think Byrd is what we need in 2010. I much prefer Cameron and think Byrd is a bit overrated, although a solid player. If the Braves signed Byrd to anything more than a minimal deal, I think it would be a bad move. However, given Schafer’s recent injuries and overally lack of ABs in the high minors, I don’t think he will spend much time in the majors in 2010, and I am not particularly certain that he will perform well if he is up. He is young and still has time to breakout, but I think this year he needs to work on cutting down the K’s in AAA.
Thus, I cannot vote for the first choice—-I disagree with it. I don’t think Marlon Byrd is what we need in 2010.
I also cannot vote for the second choice—- I don’t think that Schafer will be a better major league player than Marlon Byrd in 2010.
Therefore, I vote none of the above.
Yeah I’ll second that. Schafer could certainly surprise us all, but most likely in 2010 he’ll spend several months in Gwinnett and be a 4th outfielder/defensive replacement if he does get called up later in the year. If trading Jordan (and others) could bring back somebody like Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder, then Wren would have to consider it. Otherwise he might as well let Schafer have another year to show whether his potential is real or illusory. There are better ways to upgrade the offense than on Byrd. Cameron for one or just re-signing Laroche.
I ranted about this this morning, but let me say, this is one of the stupidest things Mark Bowman has ever said. The concept of Marlon Byrd being the answer, and enough of a solid acquisition to make Jordan Schafer is expendable, is more hilarious than the situation which led to me getting dumped 2 weeks ago.
Absolutely laughable.
Whoa! Welcome back?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 25, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
more hilarious than the situation which led to me getting dumped 2 weeks ago.
care to share?
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Nov 25, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Schafer is a nobody.
He’s a cheater and a bum. Always will be. He has yet to prove he can play well without the juice.
You're severely misinformed.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 25, 2009 5:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I feel your pain
But this quest you are undertaking is likely to be more difficult than explaining quantum physics to a fifth grader with full blown ADD whose diet primarily consists of high fructose corn syrup.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
LOL!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 25, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
no he did not. he admitted to being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 25, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he sucks so bad that the Braves drafted him.
He sucks so bad that he was their Opening Day centerfielder and hit very well until his wrist got hurt.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 25, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
touche.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 25, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
again, he did in ST and in April.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 25, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I guess those 297 AB’s after he returned from his suspension in 2008 were just a fluke.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
I mean, I am just as much a critic of small sample sizes as anyone (cough-martin-prado-cough), but when one of the top prospects in the game performs like Logan did in ST and before his wrist injury, you just know that they can play. He may not be all-star material just yet (if he ever is), but to say he sucks and that we need to rid ourselves of him is one of the dumbest things I have heard around here in a while.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 25, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
you have missed a lot…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 26, 2009 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
I'm still with you on that too
Not. 100%. Convinced.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 30, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Dude, enough with the "proven"
MLB players don’t have to prove anything to you. Teams spend a lot of money on scouting and player development so that they know what kind of player they’ve got. Because he hasn’t “proven” anything to you doesn’t mean shit.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
Have to temper the hit well until he got hurt idea...
…he may well have been hurt most of his time in Atlanta, but assuming it was all the injury, the pre-injury time is too small a sample size to matter. In his first five games, Schafer was 8/19 with 2 2B and 2 HR. After the first five games, Schafer batted 26/176 (.148) with 6 2B and 0 HR. Of course much of that time was with the injury. Schafer has more or less had no time in the majors without it.
Agreed
The bottom line, really, is that none of the data we have on Schafer (MLB or MiLB) is statistically significant. Plenty of outside influences in the minor leagues (such as him being young for every level and the fact that the numbers don’t have much predictive value to begin with) obscure the meaning of his MiLB data and a 2-month MLB sample (injury or no injury), is about 8% of what I’d like to have when evaluating a player.
We can debate all we want, but all the numbers are pretty much meaningless. The opinions of scouts is much more relevant here. And this is coming from as big of a stathead as you’ll meet.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
I agree, but I was including ST too – still a small sample size, but slightly more data than 19 ABs.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 27, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
I never put too much into ST stats
They can foreshadow future performance, but it is so erratic—-some pitchers are working on pitches and throwing the same thing every pitch and other pitchers are just guys who aren’t major-leaguers. It is still a good sign, but I don’t like to rely on it too much.
I agree completely. I was just simply refuting the thought that Logan hasn’t ever proven he can play well without the alleged HGH.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 27, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Understood...
I have no clue on the HGH. No way to know. Hell, no way to know if he is still on it. Maybe he found a more discrete source. We just don’t know enough about him. Time, as always, will tell.
Or maybe he never used it at all, like he claims.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 28, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
True, we can't determine that for certain
It makes you wonder why he would have gotten it but not used it, but since he denies use and there is not real way to test for it, there is just no way to know.
I hope you guys are right.
I really hope Schafer can live up to his expectations. Anything close to Siezmore would be fine with me.
But the only time he was actually good for an extended period of time was when he took HGH. Remember back in 2006? He was horrible, hitting about .240 that year. Then he inexplicably took off in ‘07, but hasn’t really done much since.
Allegedly…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 28, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Why are you in such denial about Schafer taking HGH? There is plenty of evidence that he took it. And it’s not like he denied it or anything…
He absolutely denied it. He’s denied it over and over again. And there’s no evidence he took it, other than circumstantial evidence. In fact, the story I’ve heard over and over again is that another player, who was afraid of being passed in the depth chart, concocted the story and that baseball, which didn’t need any evidence or even real reason to suspend him since he wasn’t part of a union at the time, chose to suspend him because he wouldn’t implicate other players on his team as users, and there isn’t even any evidence that he did know about that or that that actually existed.
You have a lot of erroneous facts that I just kind of let roll off, but this is just dumb.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Well, I was going to say something, but you pretty much said it all…thanks!
I love how suddenly, there is “plenty of evidence” that he took it, when no such thing has ever been proven.
And the whole “it’s not like he denied it or anything” just proves that this guy has no idea who Jordan (Logan) Schafer even is.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 28, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
There were only about a million stories where he’s denied it repeatedly…
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
for real…in a related note, has anyone seen his girl??? She is SMOKING!!!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 28, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
I found a non-facebook photo that I guess is ok to share…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 28, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Nice. Is she his girl this week…cause…I don’t know, maybe he’s growing up…
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
haha…not sure…I just checked it out on FB, and this was his “in a relationship” lady.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 28, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Even if he did take HGH, since when has HGH enabled a player to have better plate discipline or hand-eye coordination?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 28, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Gouldis
another thing that I think you are mis-understanding is what HGH does. It isn’t a performance enhancer like steroids, it can’t help you build muscle mass. The value of its use is inconclusive, but seems more related to keeping players healthier over the long baseball season. Therefore his “inexplicable ’07” can be no more explained by HGH.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 30, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder what the full effects of HGH are...
…it has been suggested that it helps heal injuries quicker, but studies are inconclusive. Nobody has gone out there saying they did it and describing the effects like a few have with steroids, however. I recall reading an admitted former steroid user explain the best effect steroids had for him something like this: during a baseball season you are always dinged up, some days you wake up feeling great, ready to go, other days, more numerous later in the season, you wake up feeling like crap and having a hard time getting going. I never had a bad day on steroids.
If HGH has that same effect, I can see that it could lead to a great season.
Perhaps
but its not like steroids in that it won’t build muscle mass. For many steroid users it may have made little difference, but for talented guys being able to hit the ball an extra 10-15 feet or simply a grounder at higher velocity it could make a huge difference.
HGH doesn’t have those those type of effects, however it may have some of the effect of keeping one healthier and ready to go over the course of a season similar to steroids. But if that is the case, you wouldn’t necessarily see a spike in performance (like with steroids), but more of an even season where preformance doesn’t vary as much from week to week or month to month. A breakout performance may be the result, but not like, say, hitting 40 HR’s per year to hitting 70.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 30, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
For an everyday game like baseball...
something that would help injuries heal quicker is very beneficial. Having the energy to play everyday, and do so free from pain and nagging injuries, can probably make a big difference in a guy’s #s over a 6 month season.
I am not disagreeing
My point is simply this:
unlike anabolic steroids, the positive effects of HGH are not conclusive. It seems that, at best, HGH simply allows everyday players to heal faster. While this can certainly be quite a boon, to say that Schafer’s 2007 MiLB breakout season can be wholly explained by alleged HGH use (which is unproven in the first place) is a meager argument at best.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 30, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
never said he did
just trying to explain the effects of HGH vs. Steroids.
by Andy Braves Fan on Dec 3, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Marlon Byrd I cannot reply to that except with this “How dumb”. Mark Bowman must have been smoking something and it was not the good stuff.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Nov 26, 2009 10:41 PM EST reply actions
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