Talking Chop Top-25 Braves Prospects: 21-25
Our countdown of the top-25 prospects in the Atlanta Braves organization begins with #21 through #25 (note that you will actually get 6 prospects today, and that because of a tie, there are really 26 top prospects):
21. Todd Redmond, RHSP :: B/T: R/R Born: 5/17/1985 Ht: 6'3" Wt: 215
Last Year's Talking Chop Rank: X
The Skinny: 2008 Southern League Pitcher of the Year led Gwinnett in wins in 2009, and sparkled in international competition for Team USA late in the year.
The Good: Has shown himself very capable at the highest levels of the Minor Leagues and is essentially a finished product. Excellent control makes him as good at hitting his spots and avoiding walks as anyone.
The Bad: Underwhelming stuff gives him little room for mistakes. Probably had more trouble with AAA than he really should have.
...In a perfect world...he becomes the ideal back of the rotaion innings eater. His propensity for ground balls and ability to avoid walks could also make him a solid reliever.
ETA: 2010. He may return to Gwinnett's rotation, but there's a chance he wins a job in Atlanta's bullpen out of Spring Training.
...for a full scouting report, go here.
T22. Cole Rohrbough, LHSP :: B/T: L/L Born: 05/23/1987 Ht: 6'3" Wt: 203
Last Year's Talking Chop Rank: 6
The Skinny: He was the Braves top LHP prospect at this time last year but was derailed by injuries and confidence issues this year.
The Good: Cole has been blessed with plus stuff from the left hand side and he also possesses a plus curve that works as his strikeout pitch. While everything else was falling apart this season he was still able to get a respectable amount of strikeouts. Also his control actually improved this season despite his struggles.
The Bad: Cole is still largely living off his reputation from 2007 where he dominated the Sally League and the Appy League. In 2008 he wasn't as good as advertised in Rome (though his strikeouts were still amazing). He started 2009 on a torrent but fell apart from May onward. There are reports he pitched through a couple of injuries during the year and also reports that he was prone to lose him composure on the mound at times.
...In a perfect world... He gets healthy, both physically and mentally, and he regains command of the strike zone next season to become a top prospect again and a potential #2 starter.
ETA: Hard to say. He might return to Myrtle Beach next season. 2011 at the earliest, maybe 2012 if injuries and other problems persist.
...for a full scouting report, go here.
T22. Brett Oberholtzer, LHSP :: B/T: L/L Born: 07/01/1989 Ht: 6'2" Wt:190
Last Year's Talking Chop Rank: NR
The Skinny: Oberholtzer debuted in 2009 and was nearly unhittable for Danville posting a 2.01 ERA and helping the Braves win the Appy League title.
The Good: Oberholtzer has slightly above average stuff for a lefty with three good pitches: a fastball with good downward movement, a plus change and slider, all of which he has control and command of. He also has an ideal pitcher's frame with good mechanics that should lead to him being a durable workhorse in the future.
The Bad: Nothing so far. He needs more experience against better competition to see how well his stuff will play up but there aren't any negatives to take away from his season.
...In a perfect world... with command of three good pitches Oberholtzer has the chance to be a middle of the rotation starter in the majors though he still has a long way to go.
ETA: He has time to work on his game, polished as it may already be, though I expect he could move through the low minors pretty quick. Look for a 2012 debut.
...for a full scouting report, go here.
T22. Tyler Stovall, LHSP :: B/T: L/L Born: 12/27/1989 Ht: 6'1" Wt: 180
Last Year's Talking Chop Rank: NR
The Skinny: Spent the year by frustrating and also by amazing all who watched him in Danville in his debut in organized ball, when most thought he would start the year at Rome with the other 2008 draftees.
The Good: He has electric stuff from the left side with a fastball that already sits in the lows 90s and tops out at 94 at times with room to add more velocity. His curveball is already a plus plus pitch that helps him rack up a substantial number of Ks. Scouts also praise his intelligence and makeup.
The Bad: While he can strike guys out, he also walks a ton -- more than 1 per inning this season. He doesn't have a reliable 3rd pitch at the moment though he is developing a change.
...In a perfect world... he harnesses his stuff, develops a go-to 3rd pitch and adds some velocity as his body matures and he becomes a excellent #2 or 3 starter with borderline #1 potential.
ETA: The Braves can afford to move him slow and work on his control. Look for him no earlier than 2012.
...for a full scouting report, go here.
T25. David Hale, RHRP :: B/T: R/R Born: 09/27/1987 Ht: 6'2" Wt: 200
Last Year's Talking Chop Rank: NR
The Skinny: Was a two-way player at Princeton who is finally able to concentrate on pitching full time. He debuted in Danville and pitched well in limited exposure.
The Good: Hale throws an easy fastball that sits in the low to mid 90s and can get up to 97 at times. Having split time between pitching and hitting in college he has a chance to grow into his role as a full time pitcher and could move quickly if everything clicks for him.
The Bad: Hale throws a slider and change, but neither pitch is really an asset at the moment with the slider showing signs of being a plus pitch. Having not focused solely on pitching in college scouts aren't sure what will become of him. Some think he could start if he puts it all together, others think he is a born reliever.
...In a perfect world... he puts everything together and becomes a back of the bullpen force for the Braves with a dominant slider and fastball to keep hitters off balance.
ETA: Without knowing for sure if the Braves plan to try him as a starter, I will be cautious and say 2012. If they go with him as a reliever right out of the gate then maybe as early as 2011.
...for a full scouting report, go here.
T25. Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburg, 1B :: B/T: R/R Born: 02/08/1988 Ht: 6'2" Wt: 235
Last Year's Talking Chop Rank: NR
The Skinny: A big powerful first baseman that the Braves took in the 16th round of the 2009 draft, he debuted in the Appy League and proceeded to be voted the top hitter in the league by managers.
The Good: RSF flashes plus power potential and has shown the ability to control the strike zone and put the bat on the ball.
The Bad: He doesn't have a projectable body and a lot of his success was tied into his high batting average this season. He stats regressed each month of the season and his final month was just 'ok' though he was so good early the entire season looked strong. His plate discipline wasn't incredibly impressive (though it is hard to get a good read on a guy who is hitting everything like he did). He was also old for the Appy League at 21.
...In a perfect world... he becomes a power hitting first baseman and an has the ability to start for a major league team, whether it be the Braves or a trade partner.
ETA: There are several good or better prospects ahead of RSF. If he gets a chance with the Braves it won't be till 2012 at the earliest.
...for a full scouting report, go here.
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49 comments
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Comments
I really like both Stovall and Oberholtzer.
I’m excited to see what they do next year.
by blindsided789 on Nov 23, 2009 10:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
Actually, I’m a fan of everyone on this list except Redmond, who won’t ever amount to more than organizational filler/meaningless innings eater.
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by PWHjort on Nov 23, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really like where this list is going, but like PWHjort, I don’t think Redmond will amount to anything. I want to like the guy, but I just don’t see it happening. Hope he proves me wrong though.
by Sparhawk on Nov 23, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i like stovall a little more than ober. i have seen too many lefties dominate danville and then never do anything in the majors. but stovall has good stuff. obers isnt bad, but i am more hesitant with bret.
by yondaime4 on Nov 23, 2009 1:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Stovall has a more impressive body.
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by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds gay. And this is coming from a guy with “cocks” as part of his username.
by Bobby Cocks on Nov 23, 2009 4:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you are definitely the gayer…
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by bwellnjonesco on Nov 23, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gwinett is going to have a boatload of pitching. Redmond, Diamond, Reyes, Kimbel, Venters, etc. If Schafer, Heyward and Hicks are there, that is a very good team.
by braves99 on Nov 23, 2009 10:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The next group of young Braves are looking real good. Especially the pitchers. Some rumors have been floating around about the Braves making a run for Crawford. Do you think they would have to give up a few young pitchers for him? If they were to trade for him.
by Lewisjsl on Nov 23, 2009 10:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would think any trade the Braves make to acquire talent would require them giving up pitching. Their pitching depth is just so much better than their fielding depth. Of course, the Rays need young pitching less than most teams.
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by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A left-handed, high-OBP, low-power bat, no matter how much speed, isn’t something the Braves need to be sinking a lot of resources into.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 23, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford is an average hitter and plus left-fielder...
…but nothing special in real baseball like he is in fantasy. His power isn’t that bad given the large number of doubles and triples he hits, but he isn’t very patient at the plate and that lowers his overall effectiveness. He is likely available, but not a likely target for the Braves because he isn’t what we need, and what we have to give isn’t what the Rays need as they are well stocked in both major and minor league arms.
by cavebird on Nov 23, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i guess his 60 stolen bases isn’t special either
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 23, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford's good
but if your stolen bases are in front of a team that can’t hit…yeah, then they’re worth shit.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Nov 23, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well the second half braves did hit…
i don’t see how adding a 28 year old 3 time allstar doesn’t improve your team a great bit..
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 23, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
one thing to take into account though with crawford hc...
Bobby Cox. What use is someone that can steal bases if you don’t try?
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 23, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Never stopped Rafael Furcal…
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www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1 guy in how long?...
Grissom and Lofton came in with beaucoup steals and got none here. just sayin is all, we don’t run much.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 24, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lofton stole 27 bases but got caught 20 times. He admitted he couldn’t figure out the league and just stopped trying after a while.
After leading the league with 76 and 78 steals Grissom stole 36 the year before he came to Atlanta, then 29 and 28 the two years he was with the Braves. He only stole over 20 bases in a season 3 times over the 9 years he played after that. Is that Bobby Cox, or is that just a progression in his ability?
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www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 24, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we have guys that can hit...
just not hit for power.
And for a team that has lacked much speed in the lineup, maybe being able to “manufacture” more runs is a good idea in a lineup that lacks power. Of course, we won’t properly use speed with Cox around (at least from his history), so that’s probably not a good idea anyway.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 23, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not particularly special.
At a success rate of 75%, a player’s stolen bases are break even. Crawford’s career success rate is 82%, so his stolen bases are a marginal advantage. Given that the Braves don’t run that often, I doubt his stolen bases would significantly help the Braves. Removing all of his stolen bases and increasing his career OBP from .335 to .365 would result in a next improvement. Stolen bases just aren’t that important in real baseball. His speed is useful in other ways—-increased bases on hits behind him, and better defense, but it is hard to be a particularly special player with a .335 OBP.
by cavebird on Nov 23, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome back.
7/10/09-A New Dawn.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Nov 23, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.
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by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll assume Redmond over Oberholtzer was all you, because he’s a fantastic human being or some nonsense like that.
I also have no idea how you drop Rohrbough so much despite a .350 BABIP.
by bigjoe on Nov 23, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t even have Rorhbough on my list. He was just so bad this year, after not being that good last year, that I thought there were plenty of better players ahead of him.
And, I actually didn’t have Redmond on my list either. That was all Gondeee. I had Oberholtzer at 16. The only reason he’s on the list is cause of me.
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by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can respect him at 16. I would like to see how the rest of this list shakes out there. Can’t wait to see Craig Kimbrel = top 5 prospect.
by bigjoe on Nov 23, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You might be surprised on that one.
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by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we aren’t the only people being bullish on Rohrbough though. Sickels didn’t have him on his top 20 either. I’m with CB on him right now. One good season in three doesn’t make him a great prospect, but he does still have good stuff and if he was injured as bad as I have been hearing recently then maybe there is hope. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him have a bounce back type year in Mississippi because of the park there.
by yondaime4 on Nov 23, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m still curious to see if he even goes to Mississippi to start the year. You really could make the argument that he hasn’t mastered the Carolina League yet.
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by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t have Rohbough top 10, he’s barely top 15 for me. I just think 22 is way too low. You can’t cut bait on a guy that quick just because he had one bad luck aided year.
I’m more appalled at talking about Redmond’s precise control when he had a walk rate a shade under 3 last year. Thats not precise control, thats average control. Without control, dude turns to shit. And if he can’t have pinpoint accuracy when he’s in AAA, he’s not going to become a major league pitcher, period. The absurd homer rate doesn’t help either.
by bigjoe on Nov 23, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like you better on Facebook…
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by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I’m with you, i didn’t have Redmond in my top 25 or my top 10 RH pitchers. But I’m not throwing anyone under the bus here (looking at Gondeee).
by yondaime4 on Nov 23, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool man, I’m actually doing a top 40 that I’m gonna start doing writeups for tomorrow…keep an eye out. I have a nagging feeling our picks are gonna be a little similar, we tend to think around the same wavelength
by bigjoe on Nov 23, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I had him at 8th on my RHSP list, so it’s not like I’m exactly in love with the guy either. He’s a decent pitcher and I think he can be a Major Leaguer, soon, but he’s probably not going to be a stud.
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by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t see either of your lists, but if JJ Hoover wasn’t top 3, you should both be committed.
by bigjoe on Nov 23, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why? he’s 22 in Low A. There were any number of guys in the system who were younger pitching just as well at the same or higher levels who also have better stuff and more projectable bodies.
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by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I loved JJ Hoover about halfway through the season and lost my love for him. Though when i saw him in the sally league all star game his curveball was unfucking believable. And he was my #4 RHP prospect behind Teheran, Delgado and Spruill.
by yondaime4 on Nov 23, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I had the same top 4.
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by cbwilk on Nov 24, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t like Delgado nearly as much as you all, but that analysis is for another day.
by bigjoe on Nov 24, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Three completely torn ligaments and one partially torn in the ankle of your plant foot can be a problem. Pitched an entire season with that condition. I’m beginning towonder about the Brave’s medical people. Chuck James pitched two years with severe shouler damage and it wasn’t found. Soriano complained about his elbow last year and had his courage questioned until a real problem was found and surgery was required. It took half a season to find Schafer’s problem although much was his own fault for not saying anything.
by braves99 on Nov 24, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who’s to say it wasn’t mostly the other guy’s fault for not saying anything either?
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by cbwilk on Nov 24, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not? I’ll admit, my only real problem with our top 25 is that RSF is on there ahead of Gerry Rodriguez, who came in at 26. Rodriguez is the same age but has a history of pro success and had an great season that ended two levels ahead of where RSF played. That being said, why not be a fan of RSF? He had a great season and looks like he might be a very talented hitter. I get if it you don’t think he’s the franchise savior or anything like that, but that doesn’t explain just not liking him.
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by cbwilk on Nov 23, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Redmond and Diamond and a couple of others are getting ripped for not having a plus out pitch or not throwing hard. Plain silly. With the lack of SP in the ML these guys have a good chance to be 4/5 SP’s or mid relievers. Control/command, changing speed, and throwing any pitch in any count can make for a solid pitcher. Maddux, Glavine, and Moyer couldn’t “break a pane of glass” with their FBs but have around a 1000 wins between them. Going back, Warren Spahn and Robin Roberts didn’t throw all that hard and had around 700 wins between them. Add mental make up to the above factors and you may be amazed at the success such pitchers can have. Will either of them be a HOF pitcher? Not likely, but I wouldn’t dismiss them off hand.
by braves99 on Nov 24, 2009 9:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I disagree almost completely
It is quite reasonable to downgrade pitching prospects because they do not have a plus pitch or otherwise lack stuff. Your comparisons to major leaguers mostly fail. Including Maddux in the discussion is completely silly as he had 3-4 plus plus pitches and quite good stuff. His mound presence and guile on top of that made him one of the two best pitchers of his generation. He’s irrelevant. Spahn and Robin Roberts were both finese pitchers, but neither lacked stuff—-Spahn led the NL in strikeouts for four consecutive years from 1949-1952 before he was replaced by Roberts who led the NL in strikeouts in 1953 and 1954.
That leaves you with Glavine and Moyer. Two slop tossing lefties who had long careers; Moyer’s being mostly league average and Glavine being a future hall of famer. They are legitimate comparisons. The problem is that for every Glavine or Moyer you have 100 Horatio Ramirezes. Everytime I hear a pitcher called the next Tom Glavine, I shudder. Glavine, and Moyer to a lesser extent, found a way to do it. In many ways that makes Glavine one of my favorite pitchers of alltime—he did it without having stuff. The problem is that most guys who strikeout 5.4 batters per nine innings in the majors like Glavine and Moyer did are complete meatballs. Look at a list of guys who strike out 5 batters per nine innings or less and you will find a couple of decent/good pitchers and an incredibly large number of crappy pitchers. Major league hitters are good—-far better on average than minor league hitters. Without a plus pitch or good stuff it is very hard to consistently get them out.
by cavebird on Nov 24, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maddux and Glavine both threw harder than they get credit for. Or at least were capable of throwing harder than we give them credit for. Remember Maddux had high walk totals their first couple of seasons in the majors because he wasn’t a finesse guy yet.
by yondaime4 on Nov 24, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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