Freddie Freeman
by 'hawkchop on Nov 19, 2009 1:07 PM EST
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So I know that there is a witchhunt to prevent rosterbation posts right now, so hopefully this will make the cut, but I just wanted to comment on our in-house first base option of the future.
I usually am one to go around in circles to try and explain my beliefs on things, but on this I will just be straight out blunt. I am very skeptical of Freddie Freeman's Future. I really think a big part of why he has such a high prospect status is due to the lack of position player potential we have in our system, moer than his actual talent. With that being said, I am not questioning that Freeman will turn out to be a valuable major leaguer. However, I am saying that I think he does not have as high as ceiling as other might. I can see him being a .275-.290 hitter, no doubt, but I question his power, as I am on the side of the fence to where he will be a .275-.290/.340-.360/.430 to .450 type player.
With this being said, I really think that we should be less concerned about planning around Freeman's ETA, and go after a 1b as a FA or in a Trade who has shown what they can do at the major league level. I think our approach should be lets solidify that positon with a player for the next few years (as we thought we were doing with Kotchman), and then allow for Freeman to develop without any pressure, and when he is ready, handle the situation then, as it will be one of those "good problems to have" situations (the 1b we already have at the ML, or Freeman, could be used in a trade to fill another need.)
My question is, is there something I am missing? I know this is more of a brainstorming post, sorry for the lack of statistics, but I have looked at them in the past, and they seem to be more the numbers of a solid regular than a periennal all-star. I do undestand that he was injured last year, but I am talking about his stats since he was drafted.
And for those who have seem him play, is he one of those players whose minor league stats do not truly represent his skill set, and once he gets to the majors, he will produce at his max potential? I definately do hope that this will prove out to be true....I guess a good way to see that is by using one of those sites that shows a current list of players that Freddie Freeman projects to be like.
Again, if this is an unncessary fan post, I do apologize, but I just wanted to get some opinions on if I am missing something, or if the thoughts above are some that others share.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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No, I think he’s saying you could still go back now and change it.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Good point..I was thinking the same thing. You look at his numbers and it really doesnt stand out. I am not to impressed and I think since he missed most of last year, he needs some seasoning. Maybe 2 years. So, in the mean time, sign La Roche or trade for Adrian Gonzalez. Power Power Power people, lets go
by AlRoBraves95 on Nov 20, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not really seeing the lack of power in Freeman’s game. In his first full season he slugged over. 500 and had 33 doubles with his 18 homers. This year he took a step back in terms of his power production, but we have to remember that A) he took a step up in his BB%, which could have been something he was focusing on B) he was battling a wrist injury for a large portion of his season.
I won’t argue that we should trade him for a more proven 1B, hell I’m all for it if we know we can lock that guy up. But I think Freeman should be a good 1B. He’s not going to be Pujols or Gonzalez, but he should be somewhere between LaRoche and Morneau.
Freddie isn’t just rated highly in the Braves system, he’s rated highly in baseball. Baseball America had him as the 12th best prospect in baseball on their midseason list. According to that assessment, he would have been the top prospect for all but 7 teams in baseball. (This was before the signing deadline, and while Strasburg and a few others might bump him back a little, the point remains.)
First, Freddie is a gold glove caliber defensive first baseman. Second, he’s a monsterous hulk of a human being. As bravesfan91 pointed out, he’s already shown a ton of slugging power, and there’s more to be tapped into. He’s only 20 years old. And, for that young age, he has an advanced concept of hitting, he takes walks and doesn’t try to play outside of his game. On top of all this, he’s one of the hardest workers in the Braves system.
If you’re skeptical about him, that’s good; all prospects are open to that until they prove themselves at the major league level. But, he is a top tier talent, not just in the Braves system but in all of baseball, and I personally see nothing wrong with the Braves planning the future of first base around him.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
who would you compare him to being most like cb?
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
Mark Grace but with 25-30 HR power.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Not LaRoche, cause he’s not quite that solid of a hitter and not McGriff cause he had more power. Olerud is a little closer, but he still didn’t have quite enough pop.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I liked Olderud...
outside of the funky helmet for medical reasons, he was a pretty good hitter and a great defensive man. If it weren’t for his Met-dom, he’d be much higher up my list of favorites.
I always liked him a lot too. When I played in HS he was one of those guys I paid attention to as a hitter. I still sucked, but I was probably a little better because of trying to emulate him. I got to meet him during his last season and he was incredibly nice, a real pro.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
And a pretty good player...
even with some of the ups and downs he had in his career (especially in HR #s, but as you say Freeman seems to have a little more pop, will probably fill out his tall frame a little thicker). If you told me today that the career we get from Freeman will go lock step with what Olerud did, I’d take it in a heartbeat.
He’s either Adrian Gonzalez or Casey Kotchman
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
cloers to AG
remember, AG didn’t get his real power stroke until he filled out 2-3 years ago.
he was always a can’t miss type of prospect, but the power numbers were inconsistent.
now, however, he’s a monster on an otherwise horrid offensive team.
imagine if he had protection.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Nov 19, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the problem with Freddie:
His whole minor league career it’s been Jason Heyward…and then Freddie Freeman. He’s always been in Heyward’s shadow. His numbers really are pretty good. It’s just tough to look good when you’re always around a guy hitting .400 with a crazy OPS of 1.100. I think Freddie is gonna have a huge 2010 as long as his wrist gets healed.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by Scott Coleman on Nov 19, 2009 1:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
on the same side, he’s been pitched to his whole career bc of Heyward battin in front of him (Heyward always on base so you have to throw strikes to Freddie)..so presumably in 2010 when Heyward gets called up we’ll really find out what Freeman is made of when he is the nrb one offensive talent on the team.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
not a problem
some people would say it was a Godsend b/c the expectations for him to be the “man” are small and he can develop at his own pace.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Nov 20, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
THIS
ALL DAY LONG THIS….I can see that being a big thing as well. While I may think he may be overvalued because of the lack of talent around him in our system, I can also see him being undervalued, Majorly, when you put it in this perspective. Great Point MVHS
As cbwilk put it...
it’s not just the Braves that are high on this guy. He is very recognized by scouts all over the majors. This guy would be the #1 prospect on MOST teams. And he will most likely be ours next year.
‘Patience is a virtue’ gets tossed around quite a bit but in this case it makes sense. The same scouts that found Heyward and Hanson think very highly of Freeman so I tend to think we should give it time to develop. He’s only 20.
Also remember where Freeman played last year
He played in two very pitching friendly parks. That combined with his wrist injury was the likely cause of the power outage. We have to remember that he is only 20 years old (a month younger than Heyward) and outperformed Heyward in 2008. He’s still a fine prospect, it just might take another year or two to develop him. Of course, there are no guarantees—-no prospects have those——but he is still a pretty good power hitting 1B prospect.
whats important to me is his approach… he’s not just a power hitting 1B, he is also a a good hitter in general (he can take a walk and doesnt strike out a ton). there are tons of power hitters, but Freeman is hard to get out and thats what leads me to believe at the very least he is a league avg 1B in the future (if healthy)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
And that's where the Heyward comparisons hurt perception
Because he is a patient hitter, but not a 1/1 K/B ration like Heyward.
are we agreeing or are u disagreeing with me… i feel that Freeman is a good hitter and a patient one at that…is that not what i said?
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
well stop… argue damnit
i renege on my contention
Freeman is bad at taking pitches and is overall a horrible person
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Several circumstances caused his power outage. MB is not a HR park due to its size and the wind blowing in constantly. He will add 20 or more lbs to that frame over the next couple of years. At Miss, he was a 19 year old playing against 21-24 year old top prospect.s. I would expect him to struggle and his wrist was a real problem by then. As mentioned, his value is his mature approach to hitting at this stage. It is impossible to evaluate his power potential at this point. I expect him to have a very good year facing pitchers who will be more around the plate.
I have mentioned this before in terms of Schafer
but I do have to agree with the contention that I fear for Freddie Freeman’s bat, especially his power production. For me, the major question is that wrist injury. I know it’s healing, but wrist injuries scare me for hitters. I just hope that I am wrong on this one and that he pulls out his full potential.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 20, 2009 12:12 PM EST reply actions
i agree and don’t think FF should be playing in the AFL
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Well, he barely did anyway
I don’t know if it was because of injury or because a priority player from another organization was at first base (priority players get 4/5 of the starts and each organization can designate one—-we designated Heyward and it got wasted when he got hurt)—-which may well have been Alonso, but he hardly played in the AFL.
FF
I question if he really is the prospect that they are saying. Im not expecting 40 HR, 315 BA numbers, but he does have a long way to go, in terms of physically, IMO. I have seen him play several times, he is a big guy, but definatly hasn’t filled out. Just watching him move, he looked very unathletic and I thought he had a slow bat. I realize he has been out of high school for just a couple of years, and does have some muscle to pack on, but looks to have a ways to go. Hopefully he gets stronger, turns out to be a Derrick Lee type, but I have my doubts.
Completely irrelavent....
….but what does the WCU in your name stand for?
Booooo
I’m currently attending App State.
by bravesfan91 on Nov 24, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I’m sorry, does anyone around here check stats when they start saying this stuff. The kid hit 19 homers as an 18 year old in Rome with a 300+ BA. and was leading Myrtle Beach in doubles this year when he was called up to Mississippi and got hurt as a 19 year old. He’s not Jason Heyward, but he is a DAMN good prospect. He may not be in Atlanta next season but for God’s sake he is just 20 and has done nothing but hit against advanced competition and we are saying we don’t believe in him.
I don't think anyone said
that they don’t believe in him. I specifically said that I am concerned about his wrist injury.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 24, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe he needs to rosterbate more?...
that’ll strengthen those wrists.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 24, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
a significant dropoff in all offensive categories after the jump to AA, so no he hasn’t really hit against advanced competition…blame it on the injury or whatever, but it is a huge dropoff in performance and you cant blame people for being a little skeptic
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
I think he should get a bit of a pass there...
…given his injury and the fact that he was 19 years old in AA. It is true, however, that he hasn’t hit against higher level competition yet. It is possible, and maybe even probable, that he will, but nothing is a guarantee.
yeah, i guess im a bit skeptical on him..i think he’ll make it but i do not think he’s some sort of allstar…for me, it seems like he kind of rode Jay-Hey’s coattails a bit…yeah he’s got size, but many past 1B prospects have, and he just doesn’t seem athletic enough to me to be able to adjust as heyward has
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
I don’t get the “rode Jay-Hey’s coattails” argument. If I’m a scout and I’m at a game where Jason Heyward is, every other guy there is going to have to be amazing to impress me the least bit. The guy is so good he makes everyone else look bad. The fact is, Freddie is an amazing player in his own right who has shone because of his ability, not because of being Heyward’s teammate, in fact, he may have shone in spite of it. This argument is silly and, again, ignores the fact that Freeman is considered on of the top prospects in the entirety of the game.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
i understand what your saying and that wasn’t my direction with that statement…let me try again..
it seems like everybody jumped on the Heyward-Freeman bandwagon and assumes that these guys are going to be anchors on this team for years to come..and anytime the future is mentioned its always something about Heyward and Freeman, or Heyward, Freeman, and Hanson…while that may be the case for Heyward and Hanson its not as sure of a thing with Freeman, and because he has been in the minors with Heyward his whole career and always been mentioned with Heyward I think alot of people overlook some of Freddie’s struggles by expecting him to keep up with Heyward…so i guess what im trying to his that because he is always mentioned with Heyward, people make the notion that he is sure thing when thats not the case at all…
if this makes any sense to you, ha
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
First, nobody is a sure thing. Second, maybe for average folks this would be the case, but for respected talent evaluators around baseball, probably not. If they’re saying that Freeman is one of the top players out there, and there’s never a mention of Heyward when they say this, then that’s worth taking note of.
Personally, I think Freddie is as sure a thing as you can get with a prospect, again noting that there’s no sure thing, and if Heyward didn’t exist we’d all be talking about him the same way we talk about Heyward.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
well i was addressing the average fan on here..it sounds like your saying every respected scout or talent evaluator is high on freeman, im sure there are some very respected ones that are skeptical of him also
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
you know, that can swing both ways...
Heyward has never been without Freeman either. By your logic, are we so sure that it isn’t the Kid reading Fast Freddie’s coattails? After all, I do believe it has been Jay Hey in the 3 hole with Freeman providing the protection behind him in cleanup.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 24, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
That just seems like unjustified skepticism...
he’s been strong pretty much since day 1. But because he finally has some struggles, a couple years into his pro career, at 19, in AA, with a pretty significant injury, is a reason to NOW doubt him? If anything, his past should make anyone anything but skeptical. He may not be a future All Star staple, but the kid has certainly proven himself as a top notch prospect, and if healthy, likely rips it in AA/AAA this year.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 24, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
I don't disagree on the top prospect part
clearly he is and deserves it.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 24, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
i’ve always been skeptical of him..everybody pretty much already handed him the damn starting job in a few years after one year of A ball…so yes when he struggles i will continue to be skeptical…whether you see it unjustified or not
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
So you basically admit you are biased against him?...
not saying you are wrong, but it helps put your other comments in perspective.
And it’s not like you expected him to mash every step of the way, almost every prospect has some adversity at some point in their minor league career. Some can adjust and come back strong , some can’t.
i have my reasons for not thinking so highly of him that are not backed by stats or any other evidence, just my pure opinion, which is why i didnt bring them…is that so fucking wrong.
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
It’s cool, some people don’t believe in evolution either.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I laughed so hard at this
I shot a piece of noodle out of my nose. No joke.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 24, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Remember, reading comprehension helps...
“not saying you are wrong, but it helps put your other comments in perspective”
perhaps you missed that part.
no you just make the impression that my opinion isn’t valid because because i’m “biased” against him..i’m not biased, i have simply taken what i’ve seen of him and formed my own opinion on him, which we all do, i never once said i expect him to “mash” every step of the way…i have my reasons for not thinking he’ll turn into what everyone on here expects and thats all you need to know..if you think he’ll pan out, thats fine, whatever makes you happy. you seem to confuse your opinion with fact and become confrontational with everyone who has a differing opinion than you.
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
Time will tell
He’s a prospect. I have no bias on any reason, so I figure he could be great or he could flop, just like any other prospect. He looks like a good one, but he hasn’t done much above A-ball yet. I don’t think he will necessarily flop—-in fact I like him a lot. On the other hand, I wouldn’t nix a AGonz deal because he is included as others have suggested.
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