Could Miguel Cabrera be had?
by lingsched on Nov 18, 2009 11:41 AM EST
108 comments
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10374040/Trading-Cabrera-makes-financial-sense-for-Tigers
The Braves' needs are pretty simple: A power hitting right handed hitter (most likely a OF or 1B) and bullpen help. I think the best solution to the hole in the offense is acquiring a 1B via trade and plugging the Matt Diaz platoon back in LF. If we were to get an OF I could see the brass moving Martin Prado to 1B and putting Kelly Johnson back at 2B. This would be less than ideal. Although, it is feasible that we could acquire a cheaper option at 1B if we were to acquire a big bat in LF (like Nick Johnson, Fernando Tatis, Nomar Garciaparra... just to name some possibilities).
RH OF's that likely could be had and fit our needs:
- Nelson Cruz (Rangers)
- Juan Rivera (Angels)
- Corey Hart (Brewers)
- Josh Willingham (Nationals)
The problem here is we would likely have to give up Javier Vazquez for one of these fellas, but he has that pesky no trade clause to the NL and AL West. If the Angels got desperate maybe they would consider a package for Rivera involving Lowe or Kawakami but that is wishful thinking at this point.
It is relatively slim pickins when it comes to a right handed power bat for the outfield. Matt Holliday is definitely out of our price range. Carlos Lee's power has steadily been in decline (not to mention he has a huge contract). A quick glance at the top 10-15 RH OF's in OPS shows that the other players not mentioned here are unlikely to be moved.
The Braves have been loosely linked to Corey Hart and Josh Willingham. While they would be improvements over what we have right now, they wouldn't really be the big bat we need to make a splash. Certainly neither of them merit the inclusion of Vazquez in a potential deal.
Adrian Gonzalez's name is being whispered in trade rumors, but it is likely that he will stay put. Besides, he is also on a West coast team, (one that is looking to cut salary) so it negates the ability to trade part of our wealth of starting pitching for him (Tommy Hanson and Tim Hudson are obviously going nowhere and I also consider Jair Jurrjens off-limits). It would then take a minor league package that would knock their socks off, which is unlikely to happen.
The Brewers haven't committed long term to Prince Fielder, and they have been rumored to have interest in Vazquez... but I don't see that deal materializing. Fielder is due to become a free agent in 2011. Unless the Braves could work out terms for a new deal before trading for him then they would have no interest parting with the inevitable large bounty of prospects the Brewers would demand.
My long shot solution: Miguel Cabrera
Miguel Cabrera might be falling out of favor with the Tigers. The domestic violence incident before last season's play-in game allegedly rubbed some people in the organization the wrong way. Additionally, the Tigers are the LEAST profitable team in Baseball and probably wouldn't mind shedding salary if they were getting good value in return.
With Garret Anderson, Mike Gonzalez, Rafael Soriano, and Greg Norton becoming free agents plus the difference between Hudson's contract last year and this year we have some money to spend. Cabrera will make $19 million while Vazquez makes around $12 million. We definitely would be able to make up the $7 million difference in their salaries from contracts we have coming off the books. Even after this trade we would still have money to grab a closer. According to fangraphs Cabrera's value was actually around $24 million last season, so his contract seems less outlandish in context with his performance. Chipper Jones has maybe two seasons maximum (a generous estimate) left in him so we would be free of his contract in the near future.
Do we have what it takes to get Cabrera? Possibly. The Tigers would probably first ask for Jurrjens, Hanson, or Jason Heyward and get shot down by the Braves. They might hang up the phone right then and there, but would a Vazquez-Freedy Freeman-Julio Tehran-Jordan Schafer package get it done? Is that too much? Too little? Would we have to include Mike Minor ?I think we have the pieces to get him if we wanted, but it wouldn't come cheap. Cabrera is locked up through 2016, so it may be worth it to blow them away with a package if it ensured that we would have his bat in the lineup for the next seven years.
Potential Lineup:
- Diaz
- McClouth
- Chipper
- Cabrera
- McCann
- Escobar
- Heyward
- Prado
Potential Rotation:
- Jurrjens
- Hudson
- Hanson
- Lowe
- Kawakami
Bullpen:
- SU: Moylan
- CL: Soriano/Gonzalez/Wagner/(potential free agent signing)
We have had success trading with the Tigers in the past... Assume for a second that this deal is possible. Would you do it? What would your package be?
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rosterbation?
I apologize if this qualifies as “rosterbation.” I’m new and not familiar with the rules. I saved this post in case it gets deleted and will re-post in the appropriate thread if necessary.
by lingsched on Nov 18, 2009 11:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
this is rosterbation but a well though out and good post so i think your good
its pretty bad when folks are scared to post stuff because ppl around here will jump down their throat, does it really bother yall that bad?
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 18, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t really rosterbation because its substantive, thought out, and well presented (aside from the odd formatting).
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 18, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really
Isn’t Rosterbation just saying ‘such and such’ about how we should do ‘such and such’ to improve our team in the offseason no matter how poorly or well it is done. It all devolves into an armchair GM debate thread.
This is rosterbation, sorry.
by bbxxj on Nov 18, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that was my thoughts bbxxj...
it all devolves into arm chair GM talk, which is what I understood rosterbation to be, and the desire to confine it in a small room with an easy floor for cleanup.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 18, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See, just look below. This thread is turning into a discusion of offseason ideas which there is already a perfect thread for.
by bbxxj on Nov 18, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the OP took it too far when he went in the comments and added on about other players.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 18, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just get tired of looking at “simulated lineups” if we were to get such and such a player. I’m capable of visualizing a lineup.
Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.
by TradeAndruw on Nov 18, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
honestly you would have thought to bat Chipper third… ur good!
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 18, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Call me weird, but i kinda like watching other people rosterbate.
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Nov 18, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its not weird rosterbating is perfectly natural and it should be enjoyed even by passerbys
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 18, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reminds me of this
http://www.familyguyfiles.com/bill-clinton-nude-video/
And no, despite the tag URL, this is not a dirty video, so don’t worry.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 20, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d still prefer to hold onto Vasquez. 2010 might be the Braves’ best shot at a championship for a while and keeping Javy gives them a better shot than not having him. I do like the idea of trading for Cabrera. Perhaps Wren could trade Lowe or Kawakami to New York or the Angels to clear some salary then trade a package of prospects (Freeman, Schafer, Minor?) + somebody like Kelly Johnson for Cabrera.
by redwards95 on Nov 18, 2009 11:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A couple names I overlooked:
Nick Swisher: Yankees might want to move him for one of our starters.
http://fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4599&position=1B_OF
Jermaine Dye: Bill James has him hitting .260 with 30 HR… not too shabby:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=911&position=OF
Marlon Byrd : Had a decent season last year.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=950&position=OF
Although they aren’t exactly option A for us. I wouldn’t mind taking a gamble on Dye, though. Bet he would come cheap.
by lingsched on Nov 18, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Doubt the Yankees trade Swisher he’s probably their best OF that’s signed for next season.
Bill James is kidding himself if he thinks that Dye will hit 30 HR’s. He went into massive decline after the all star break last year.
Never sign a player who had a career year in a contract season that played in Texas.
by jack dein on Nov 18, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dye
Could be, but also Dye was playing on a White Sox team that was pretty much out of the race in the 2nd half. That coupled with the fact that they had no intention on picking up his option might have affected his performance. Not saying he is our savior, but he might have something left in the tank if we can’t get a bat elsewhere.
by lingsched on Nov 18, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, if we miss on others and sign Dye...
to a deal like Anderson had below $3mil, what’s the risk?
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 18, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he turns in Anderson?
thats the risk
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 18, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
at which point Heyward or Schafer or both...
take all his at bats by the All Star break, so it’s not much of a risk.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 18, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’re forgetting who the manager is.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Nov 19, 2009 8:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good point
bobby has never been one with a quick trigger finger when it comes to his beloved veterans
by lingsched on Nov 19, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Never sign a player who had a career year in a contract season that played in Texas.
nothing makes me happier than seeing the new found rule in action
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 18, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One of the classic blunders, along with never start a land war in Asia.
Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.
by TradeAndruw on Nov 18, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nor should you ever go against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Nov 18, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a secret, Im not left handed.
by blitzerlover on Nov 18, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+3 to everyone
I am inigo montaya…you killed my father… and now you must die
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 18, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
prepare to die, not now you must die
by blitzerlover on Nov 18, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Correction: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 18, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
- 1 for every word you got wrong…so, -12 by my count…you forgot “hello, my name is,” and “Prepare to” so that is -6, and you added “I am” and “and now you must”, so that is -6 more for a total of -12.
So, -12 to you.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 18, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ironically, that is also the number in your sn…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 18, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i hope u tear your acl
o look too late
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 18, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahah
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 18, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer Cameron
to any of these three. He is a stable wysiwyg kind of guy who will hit 20-25 HR, bat about .250, and draw a good number of walks. He is also very good defensively, shouldn’t be too expensive salary-wise, and is a free agent so we don’t have to give up prospects for him. Dye is also an option, but his defense is poor and he is signed.
by cavebird on Nov 18, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not signed
They exercised his buyout.
by lingsched on Nov 18, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s been a RF with bad defense for a while now, but he might be a LF with average or slightly below defense.
by FineHamAbounds on Nov 18, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he’s bad in RF then he’ll be bad in LF. The only real difference in the corners is that teams prefer their RF to have stronger arm so they can make the throws to 3B. If a player makes poor reads, bad jumps, and is slow in RF then he’ll make poor reads, bad jumps, and be slow in LF too.
by bravesfan91 on Nov 18, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
usually th worst defender is in LF, so when u compare dye to other LF he wont be as bad… but he still is as bad
i think thats what the distinction is.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 18, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But he’ll still cost you the same number of runs. Regardless of how bad of a defender Dye is “by comparison” he still sucks.
by bravesfan91 on Nov 18, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love the idea and if Cabrera is indeed available, I hope Frank Wren pursues him. Yeah, it’s a lot of money ($20 million in 2010 and 2011, $21 million in 2012 and 2103, and $22 million in 2014 and 2105), but you’re getting a player for his age 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, and 32 seasons who has been worth more than $21 million/year for the past 4 years. And plays an available position (pretty well) and fixes the biggest systematic weakness.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Nov 18, 2009 2:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's over 1/5 of our projected payroll
No thanks.
by get swoll yunel on Nov 18, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IF we dump Lowe in the deal...
and then maybe with Freeman shifting to LF but why would Detroit not demand him in return? But if say he, Chipper, and 3 starters form the bulk of your money, with the cheap control over Esco, Prado, McCann, Heyward, Freeman, and Schafer next to Cabrera and Chipper, with Jurrjens, Hanson, and a bunch of cost controlled quality young relievers next to Hanson, Vasquez and Kawakami, maybe. We have enough potential young arms going forward to perhaps be willing to do this, but it’s doubtful at best. The deal just doesn’t match considering the two rosters, our minor leagues and our current salary restrictions.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 18, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That works for the next couple of years...
…but when Escobar, McCann, Jurrjens and Hanson hit arbitration it becomes pretty ugly. Also, I would think that dumping Lowe’s salary would be in a separate trade first—-the Tigers aren’t going to dump Miggy just to get Lowe’s salary back.
by cavebird on Nov 18, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McCann is locked up and won’t hit arb. He’s due raises over the next few years though. I imagine we’d like to lock up Escobar through his arb years, and possibly the same with Jurrjens and Hanson once they hit them.
by bravesfan91 on Nov 18, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2009 payroll subtractions
2009 Payroll: $94.3 Mill
Subtractions:
Hudson’s new deal (~6.5 mill)
LarRoche (7 mill… the $94.3 mill includes his 7 for the full year)
Soriano (6.35 mill)
Gonzalez (3.45 mill)
*Johnson (2.825 mill)
Anderson (2.5 mill)
Norton (.8 mill)
Carlyle (.420 mill)
-——————————-
This is not including any raises due to arbitration or what have you, so it is a pretty raw number of around $17-19 mill (to round down) in salary that has opened up. If we dished Vaz in this deal, then it would even out after receiving Cabrera and we would have around $9-11 mill left. We could definitely get a decent closer with that. Chipper’s 10 mill will come off the books next year (possibly the year after) which as I said gives us a little bit more flexibility.
If the Braves are smart they will attempt to lock Jair and Yunel up with long term contracts that aren’t too damaging in the short term (ala McCann). They are both eligible for arbitration after this season and would likely see significant raises if it got to that (can’t really speculate how much). If we signed them both we wouldn’t really run into trouble until the later years of their contracts (2013-2015) but by then Hudson, Lowe, and Kawakami’s contracts will all be up (roughly $30 mill) so we would have some room to work with.
Financially I think it can be done. Worst case scenario we would have to trade him, and there would likely be someone interested.
by lingsched on Nov 18, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree but Vazquez-Freedy Freeman-Julio Tehran-Jordan Schafer too much
I would take out Schafer and include another prospect that we are not too high on. But if we can have him for Vazquez-Freeman-Tehran and another prospect then it would be GOLD. I think the more relax atmosphere of Georgia would do him good and the strong precence in our clubhouse would give him direccion.
by jvvenez on Nov 25, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
who gives a shit if its rosterbation
its well thought out. i really wish people would cool it. if you dont wanna read it, dont. but dont bitch about it.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 18, 2009 2:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
They keep saying insinuating the people are afraid to post things. How many threads have I actually deleted? 4? And they were all poorly thought out, poorly written pieces of fan fiction.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 18, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and it's not as if they are stricken from the face of the earth...
they just go in a nice little space, like the crusty sock in the corner. You wouldn’t go intermingling that sock with all the rest of the nice, clean, soft socks for your feet now would you?
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 18, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't like folks are against rosterbating
it’s natural, we all do it from time to time. It just has a place, a rosterbation forum.
And it isn’t like anyone is being hated on for making a mistake and not using the rosterbation thread. We just prefer to keep it there.
That said, this is pretty well thought out. Not bad. I just don’t see it happening because Cabrera is signed to so much money.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 18, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sign jermaine dye and resign laroche and trade lowe as a salary dump for middle relief help.
by Lemke4790 on Nov 18, 2009 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cameron
Cameron would probably be cheaper and a better fit defensively. I would also like to see the Braves take a shot with Glaus as their 1b on a short deal. He may take a one y ear deal to reestablish his value. These two would balance the lineup out very nicely with a lot of pop from the right side.
by JFP on Nov 18, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i say delgado at 1B
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 19, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
take glaus over delgado...
at least in my mind. Right vs. left of course, plus I think Delgado’s health is a serious question after the hip injury and already reducing mobility as he got older and injuries piled up on those old bones. Glaus isn’t injured, or least was healthy enough to be on the Cardinals post season roster, and should be good to go for 162 next year.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 19, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i just don’t like the fact he hasn’t played many games at 1B…i know delgado’s health is a concern and if they were going to go in that direction they would need to look at that very closely…i just like his presence in the middle of our lineup, he’d be a steal if he could get back to his his old self (or at least somewhat), also i think he’d be a good leader for esco and some of the other young guys..
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 19, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glaus is an interesting idea...
…he is an underrated hitter. However, since he has played more than 120 games in a season only three times in the last seven years, I don’t think we can assume he will be good to go for 162 next year. He has also played a whopping total of 38.2 innings at first base in his career. However, if he was cheap enough and could (and would) play first base, he would be an interesting possibility.
Delgao is also an interesting possibility and also an injury risk. His upside is much higher than Glaus’s however. If the options were Glaus at $2 million and Delgado at $10 million, I would go with Glaus. If they were within $2 million of each other, I would go Delgado. In between, I am not sure.
One advantage of going with Glaus if he is cheap is this: with two Class A free agents and a Class B free agent who could be offered arbitration, coming in below budget on payroll could let us draft a bevy of real prospects (as opposed to signability picks) in the draft without worrying about the bonus money. After the trades and graduations, it would be nice to replenish the farm.
by cavebird on Nov 19, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice aspect I hadn't thought of if...
we can fill that right handed bat with say Dye, Derosa, and Glaus for under $12 mil combined, and some cheap relievers would allow us to let the prospects (Schafer, Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel) progress at their own rate and come up when ready, while also allowing us to save a little money on the big club and draft better. Nice thinking, although after last year I don’t think we’ll really be high enough for a big payday type pick unless we are talking someone who’s dropping because of “signability issues”, of which I can’t ever remember the Braves drafting someone like that.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 19, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why would we need all three of those guys and where would they play…? are you excluding Diaz in the OF… i think both Schafer and Heyward will be up sometime this year (whether i beleive thats the right decision is a different story)… so then we have McLouth, Dye, DeRosa, Shcafer, Diaz, and Heyward and not enough spots in the lineup to bat all of them (we could of course trade a guy, but i thinks its safer to sign two guys (for me its Cameron and Glaus/LaRoche/DeRosa) I have little to no interest in Dye… he is decling quickyl in my mind and his defensive is atrocious, but his bat should play real well in the NL East
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 19, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Diaz is an everyday guy...
Glaus at 1st, Dye in LF or RF, with Derosa joining Infante as a super ut filling in for LF, RF, 1B, 2B, and 3B.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 19, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what does matty have to do to prove he is an everyday guy?
career .310 BA, .358 OBP, .459 SLG, .817 OPS
he could be a 20HR guy if he played everyday possibly, he can steal bases, he hustles more than anybody on the team, what else do you need?
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 19, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
better splits against RHP
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 19, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
his average isn’t as good, but his power is still there against RHP
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 19, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As Swo said,...
better against righties, and do it twice.
I’m not sold on Martin Prado as an everyday player either, but that’s just me. Both had fine years last year, and have been good pros. But can both do it year in, year out, consistently? Until you do it, I tend to have doubts. They aren’t Chipper, McCann, Esco, McLouth, LaRoche, guys with consistent track records over several years. Don’t get me wrong, I think Matt Diaz and Martin Prado both did more than enough to be in the lineup on opening day. But whether they can end the season there, I’ll wait and see.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 19, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As an example of what I'm saying, see Ryan Ludwick...
he had a great 2008, but his 2009 saw a step back. I wonder if Diaz is similar, was 2009 his career best, or his career norm? I’d lean more towards best than norm if I had to call it today.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 19, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at Diaz stats EVERY year
Look at every year other that 2008 when he was INJURED. How can people say he only had one good year. Last year was not even as good as 06 and 07.
AVG OBP SLG OPS
2006 0.327 0.364 0.475 0.839
2007 0.338 0.368 0.497 0.865
2008 0.244 0.264 0.304 0.568
2009 0.313 0.39 0.488 0.878
by jvvenez on Nov 25, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Diaz has shown what he is...
good player not great, starting caliber but not a centerpiece of the lineup, hustles, destroys lefties, weak vs. righties.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 26, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It isn’t just you…I am known to be a Prado doubter as well…or at least, a skeptic.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 19, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prado
He’s been a .300 hitter his whole life… what more does he have to prove?
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Martin-Prado.shtml
He’s not going to hit for power but he’ll hit around .300 with a decent on base percentage.
It is obviously just a projection, but Bill James believes he can carry a .300 average for another season
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3312&position=2B/3B (though it is over 122 games)
by lingsched on Nov 20, 2009 1:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and for the inevitable reply
Yeah I know those are minor league statistics. The point is he has been pretty consistent throughout his career, even when moving up levels.
by lingsched on Nov 20, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just keep doing it...
again, the guy has had one real season as a regular player. I liked what he did, and think it was more than enough to warrant starting on opening day next year. But it’s still just one year, and next season will go a long way in determining if he starts on opening day again in 2011.
Basically, we have little more than a full season of sample size for guys like Diaz and Prado. Now was that season a career best, or career norm, we’ll just have to wait and see to find out.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 20, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the difference between Prado and Diaz is that Prado has Kelly (who was a top 5 2B the year before that) standing in his shadows…who does diaz have, nobody…
diaz has proven himself for a longer period of time than prado
i just dont think you boot some one who was one of the best 2B in 07 and 08
but we’ve had this argument too many times..
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 20, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has to prove that he can do it for a whole season. That’s all i am saying. The guy has something like less than 800 career ABs over the span of like 3 years…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 20, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the problem is not his ability to hit
in his minor league career he hasn’t shown the power he is showing in the majors in 06 his SLG was around 350, in 097 it went up to 421 (but he has a 345 BABIP)
now all the sudden he is posting a 460 SLG and he has maintained hie decent walk rate. This is where people don’t trust him… its the difference from him being above avg or below avg… thats 40 pts of SLG higher than he ever did. I know power comes late, but its not something people are comfortable about.
to prove my point (although this will hardly be the end all be all prove, admittedly it is pretty weak). Bill James who is notoriously optimistic with his predictions, predicts Martin for a 780 OPS and while that is pretty good for a MI it doesnt make him the lock down starter. (further, i dont know what this means, but KJ is predicted for a 799 OPS)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 21, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Add me to the list
I don’t doubt Prado, I’m just not 100% convinced either…
Diaz I am slightly less skeptical about. I think he could produce as more than a platoon player with more AB’s against the righties. His shot at a full time role 2 years ago was marred by injury.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 20, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
nate only has about 1 season worth of AB’s more than matt
yunel has about 100 more ABs
and he’s had about 500 or more AB’s than Prado
i just like the energy he brings to the team also
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 20, 2009 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What does Matty have to do?
Play better defense? I don’t mind him as a hitter at all and the splits don’t bother me as we have plenty of lefties in the line-up anyway. But I would rather use him as trade bait based on his hitting stats and sign a plus fielder like Cameron. (Weird, someone mentioned him about a week ago and that was the first I thought of him and now I am completely sold on him.) I just love the idea of a OF defense of McLouth in left, Cameron in center, and Heyward in right.
by cavebird on Nov 19, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That Cameron idea caught on like wild-fire, and I don’t mind fanning those flames.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 19, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ill be here all week
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 21, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no way DeRosa agrees to be a super utility… he is too talented he has more than proven he is a quality starter somewhere on the diamond.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 19, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't meant as a rosterbation, "we should sign these three" idea...
it was more a, IF you can get all 3 for say a combined $12 mil, it would be a pretty good deal. You’d have your 1B, your corner OF until Schafer/Heyward were called up, and you’d have a boost in right handed run producing for the middle/back half of the order, and you’d have enough options in case someone got hurt, or one of the three was washed up, or what have you.
I agree with you, but at a cheap price, I’d like any of the 3 to help fill the voids here.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 19, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if we can sign Holliday for $12 we should do it
thats essentially what you are syaing… obviosuly if we can get three guyss to sign at about half their market value, then yes you do it…its useless bantor
I know what we’d have and it would be awesome (kinda), but its ridiuclous to suggest it would happen.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 21, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
do you know what market value is...
with the glut of FAs on the market, who knows what the “market value” for guys will be.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 21, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love that they never update players’ weights. Baeball-Reference.com has Cabrera listed at 185…
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 18, 2009 2:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
is there a cure for chronic rosterbation?
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 18, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hear that there is...
…something called sex. Then again, I have been married long enough to believe that it is purely ficticious, sort of like the Cardinals trading us Pujols to fill our first base hole.
by cavebird on Nov 18, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, yeah. My wife is pregnant… so yeah I don’t get much anymore. It’s cool though since she is, you know, giving me a child.
But seriously there is no cure but there is something that can contain it. It’s called the rosterbation thread.
by bbxxj on Nov 18, 2009 3:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Do you find yourself rosterbating more since your wife has been pregnant?
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Nov 18, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lmao. OK. This is getting blatantly homosexual.
Did a guy just ask another guy how much he jerks it? lmao. kinda weird now…
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Nov 18, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just go with man…its cool
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 18, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no, actually, he didn't
it’s called word play.
read a book and shut the fuck up.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Nov 19, 2009 3:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you need a hug? You’ve been very testy this week.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 19, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HA! testy i get it bc of the homosexuality and all… classic CB
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 19, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. That is classic CB, being funny without even being aware of it.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 19, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Um. Hop off my dick bro.
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Nov 20, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow...didn't know inbreds had opposable digits
that allow them to hit the space bar.
go figure.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Nov 21, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 21, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, do you have any idea how bad ass it is
To make fun of people on the internet. Like, i WISH i was cool enough to do that.
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Nov 21, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are a Met.
Go to the f’n Met’s blog if you want to be such a f’n Met.
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Nov 30, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
…like the Cardinals trading us Pujols to fill our first base hole.
mmmm…….too easy
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Nov 18, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why is this whole thing in block quotes?
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Nov 20, 2009 12:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
cuase block quotes are awesome!!!!!…SO IS CAPITAL LETTERS AND !!!! PUNCUTUATION!!!!
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 21, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 for the space between the “AND” and the “!!!!”
You forgot to vary the amount of “!!!” from word to word though…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 21, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i thought awesome was mroe important so it got 5 !, whereas “and” and punction where equally important
in hindsight maybe punctuation deserved more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Nov 21, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol…nice !!!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Nov 22, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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