Talking Chop: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Voodoo Five for South Florida Bulls Fans!

Fox Sports tries to give us some insight into what kind of slugger the Braves are looking for. I am not very enthusiastic with the names they mention.

4 months ago Gondeee_tiny gondeee 125 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Provided the cost wasn’t ridiculous I could get behind Uggla in LF. He’d be a huge offensive upgrade from what we’ve thrown out there for the last decade and his defense couldn’t be any worse than what FUGA did.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 12, 2009 12:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That’s been my condition for an Uggla acquisition since that was first mentioned- that he play LF and go nowhere near 2B.

Of the other options, though, DeJesus is indeed “not right-handed and not a slugger,” so mentioning him is just more journalistic egg-laying from KRos. I don’t trust Marlon Byrd to repeat, and Nady is a platoon guy with a long and nasty injury history. Mike Cameron, though, has intrigued me more and more as time has gone on. He’s certainly no silver bullet, but he would add more punch to the lineup (provided Bobby uses some good sense and hits him 6th or 7th, letting McCann, Roachie and Yunel bat in front of him- he does NOT need to be slotting in as the cleanup man the way GA did) while upgrading our CF defense and allowing us to move Nate to LF, where his defense would be more valuable. If we can’t get the big name we crave, he might be the best option.

by J-Freak on Nov 12, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In my mind Marlon Byrd has Gary Matthews Jr. repeat written all over him. Average player has career year in a contract year in Texas. I say stay away.

by jack dein on Nov 12, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i thnk we might be able to make that black letter law

from this date forth…if a player has a career year in a contract season whilst playing in TX his season is not to be counted as real.

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously. Only idiots (the Angels) wouldn’t know that.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 12, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

its true… so we should expect the Angles to sign Marlon Byrd for a healthy contract

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Only if they can dump GMJ

He wants out of town, but, well… good luck with that, I guess.

by J-Freak on Nov 12, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so you think it will be tough to move a 12.5M contract on a guy with a 700OPS and limited defensive capabilities

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

we should add the CUbs to that list (Milton Bradley)

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Can we also add Colorado to that list.

Please provide your splits or we won’t show you a contract.

by Sparhawk on Nov 12, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would not be too quick to dismiss Cameron.

He has a lot of positives to him:

1. He is right handed and has moderate power.
2. While his batting average tends to suck and he strikes out too much, he can take a walk and his OBP isn’t horrible.
3. He is a very good defensive outfielder—-think of the huge upgrade to outfield defense an OF of McLouth (L), Cameron ©, Heyward® would be to what we trotted out there last year.
4. He should come at a reasonable price, allowing us to sign him, sign LaRoche, and sign the bullpen help we need without busting the budget, assuming we can dump Lowe’s contract.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 1:10 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Yep, I wouldn’t mind getting him. He still plays great D and can hit some HRs.

by Windu on Nov 12, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i say delgado…he should come cheaper than laroche and there is no reason to believe he still can’t hit 35+ homers a year. and play good defense.

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 12, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There are plenty of reasons to believe...

…that Delgado won’t hit 35+ HR and play good defense or that he will come cheaper than LaRoche.

1. He will turn 38 during the year.
2. He has no reason to give us a home-town discount will still probably command something at least as much as LaRoche.
3. He has never been a good defender, with a career mark of 30 and change fielding runs below average and is getting older so there is little chance the defense will improve.
4. He is coming off a serious injury and there is no way to know whether he will ever be his old self.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah if it was just any other person i would be a little more worried about it, but delgado is one of, if not the most hard working and studious player in the game, i remember when the braves played the mets he kept a notebook in the dugout and after each AB or so he’d take notes on something he needed to fix, thats pretty incredible to me, havent see anyone else do that, plus he’s had all season and all off season to recover to from his surgery..and yes he’ll be cheaper than laroche, for all the reasons you listed, laroche is entering his prime and is looking for a long term deal, delgado is will probably take a one or two year deal which would be perfect for us to transition freeman…and delgado has a career .992 FLD% and was only like 2 points worse than laroche in UZR (which i dont hold too much merit too)…he’d be a great veteran prescense for all the young guys on the team, especially esco…he takes great care of himself and has showed no signs of slowing down…he was hitting almost .300 with an OPS of .914 before his injury last year…just him trying to come back at the age of 38 after a hip surgery shows his work ethic and that he still thinks he’s got something left.

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 12, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and who would he give a home town discount too? he’s from puerto rico…he might feel the same way javy does about that situation

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 12, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My point is that LaRoche...

…would give a home team discount because he likes playing in Atlanta. I doubt Delgado gives a discount to anybody. I am still very scared about a 38-yr. old trying to come back from a major injury. I get Mo Vaughn flashbacks. He could be a steal for a team. He could be a total bust. I guess if the price was right, he might be worth a shot, but at the $10 million I expect him to fetch, I would rather pass.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

but delgado and mo are two totally different players in many aspects…delgado is a healthy, hardworking, class act…mo vaughn seems like the type that would sit around and take a couple cycle of roids and expect to get better…i expect he could be signed with a 2 year 15 mil incentive based deal, because of the injury

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 12, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

2 years and 15 millions is a sizeable risk

given the injury Delgado suffered last year. True, he is not Mo Vaughn, and there are significant differences. If it weren’t for the serious injury last year, I would say we should go for it in a heartbeat (his defense doesn’t thrill me, but he is certainly adequate at 1B), but then again, we’d be talking a lot more money if that were the case. It is like rolling the dice here—-pay $15 million over two years and either get $25-30 million in production or get next to nothing due to injury. If we weren’t as good a team otherwise, I would say go for it. However, we are so close that we can be put over the top with a safer option, so I think that is the smarter route.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Would he really command that kind of contract?

color me skeptical, i just don’t see him getting anywhere near that kind of money, and certainly not 2 years…

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, hey...

…if he can be had for one year $7 million or less, that would be worth the risk.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As I recall

Dierkes of MLBTR predicted that he would only see 1 year deals, and incentive type deals…

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah well i’d be down with that too. on si.com they said the braves were the most ideal for him too.

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 12, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

glaus was injured last year too so they’d both be a risk. but delgado career numbers are way better, he is alot more consistent, has more power, and is a true 1B, unlike glaus who is a true 3B and hasn’t play alot of games at all at 1B…i guaranteed if you ask all the pitchers who they would least wanna face and it’d be delgado 95% of the time…like cavebird said, if we pay him 7 or 8 mil and he in fact does play like his old self, that will probably be the steal of the offseason…

plus i like the fact of yunel having a good spanish speaking vet to look up to

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 12, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Completely agreed there

Delgado is a far better player than Glaus is they are both healthy. I don’t know how much money I’d risk on Glaus, but it would be far less than Delgado. Man, I think you have almost convinced me—-if we can get Delgado for one year 8 million or less, I like that. Of course, we have to wait—-we have to offer arbitration to LaRoche and if he accepts, it’s a no-go, but if we offer and he doesn’t, Delgado is mighty tempting.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah i hear ya, it’d be a helluva deal if he’s anything like his old self…even if he’s not as good as he used i don’t think it’d be too bad of a drop off…and still that pitchers heart would skip a beat when he stepped up…and with him hitting 4th, Chipper and Mac would get alot more and alot better pitches to hit

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 12, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Delgado does not work...

1) He is lefthanded. (Really don’t need another LH hitter)
2) He is 4 years older then Glaus.
3) He has never been a good…not even sure if you think of him as average 1B (orginally was a C when he came up with the Jays. Total side note….the Jays have drafted two big “catchers” who ended up being strong offensive players after they moved away from the plate-Jason Werth and Delgado.)
4) Won’t be too cheap because of his reputation.
5) Injury prone (Glaus is too..but would be cheaper).

Glaus:
1) He is RH with substantial power.
2) 4 yrs younger then delgado.
3) Was always considered a good to very good 3B and played SS occasionally as a pro…and did fulltime in college. He has not played a lot of 1B but I would put money thta he would be a much better man with the glove at 1B then Delgado.
4) Should be cheaper then Delgado.

If we choose not to resign LaRoche…Glaus would be a very good option for 1B.

by calbers on Nov 13, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Jays didn’t draft Werth, the Orioles did.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 13, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Uggla at least qualifies as a slugger. I don’t see any of those other names as a better option than going with Diaz, McLouth, and any of KJ/Heyward/Schafer/Church/Brandon Jones.

by redwards95 on Nov 12, 2009 1:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

DeJesus

Is also an underrated player. Focusing on just hitting numbers might lead you to think otherwise, but he’s a solid fielded. Plus I’d be very surprised if people really enter into a bidding war for the guy. But I don’t really expect the Braves to value defense, something they made clear with their pursuit of Garret Anderson. Man that went well.

by Perrinbar on Nov 12, 2009 1:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

He might be underrated, but he doesn’t fit any of our criteria. We need a right-hander, he’s a lefty. We need power, he’s a light hitter. I’m not degrading the guy, but there’s really just no reason for us to even pause to think about him, it would be a pointless pickup.

by J-Freak on Nov 12, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If we trade Diaz, he could make a decent...

…stop-gap until Heyward is ready and subsequently a fourth OF. The price for that should be about $1 million per year, which he would never take as someone would play him every day. Hence, I agree, we should pass.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Would...

a package of Escobar, Freeman, Hanson and Schafer be enough to land us Hanley?

He’s RH. We could save some money by letting Lowe go and sign Hanley to a 6 year 100 million dollar deal.

by apoxonbothyourhouses on Nov 12, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

ummmm...

without Hanson in that scenario, i doubt we would be able to let Lowe go.

by apoxonbothyourhouses on Nov 12, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why in the world would you want to do that???

"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."

by justincredubil02 on Nov 12, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

obviously

the marlins would need to throw in a bullpen arm.

but would an Escobar, Freeman and Schafer package be enough?

by apoxonbothyourhouses on Nov 12, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

lol…there is nobody in the league right now not named Albert Pujols who I would trade Escobar for. Esco straight up should be enough to land just about anyone in baseball, let alone Freeman and Schafer as throw-ins.

"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."

by justincredubil02 on Nov 12, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yunel for Hanley would work for me

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

You are really drinking the kool-aid. I love Escobar, but lets not get too far ahead of ourselves, this is the 2nd best position player in the National League…

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hes hopped up on pain meds…

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

when you consider total value (contract, years under control, etc.) Escobar is a better option. Also, is Han-Ram really that much of a better defender/hitter than Esco is???

"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."

by justincredubil02 on Nov 12, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hitter yes

Defender, probably not, but as I recall he isn’t the butcher he used to be. HanRam is an annual .300/.400/.550 30/30 player. Think Chipper Jones in his prime +10 steals out of the Shortstop position. The guy is a beast. and he is locked up till 2014. No comparison here.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh

and I would add, Hanley is 2 years younger.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

DeJesus < G.Anderson

by jwrocks on Nov 12, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to see your evidence for that.

Here Tell me what on this comparison page leads you to your conclusion? How about what in their respective fielding abilities? Is there anything other than name recognition on which Garret Anderson is clearly better than David DeJesus?

by Perrinbar on Nov 12, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

height

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

check out the power supply hoss, not much of a difference and getting DeJesus would cost us something more besides money. This team needs power, not saying Anderson supplies that, which he doesn’t, but he has more than what DeJesus has over the past few seasons. DeJesus would be a good pickup if we had power in the other outfield spots, and while the defensive equation is most def. in favor of DeJesus, is it worth trading prospects for in order to get him? Thanks to a .340 batting average in the last few months of the season this guy was going to be hitting in the .250 range, with little/no power, and no speed…NO THANK YOU.

by jwrocks on Nov 12, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

offensive wise….defense is all DeJesus

by jwrocks on Nov 12, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nope, you’re still off.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

all I really wanted to say was that DeJesus is not the answer to any of the braves questions that they have in the upcoming season.

by jwrocks on Nov 12, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree with you there.

But the “DeJesus < Anderson” didn’t really give off that vibe.

Neither one is what we need.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed, that’s my fault for not making that clear.

by jwrocks on Nov 12, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with not very enthusiastic.

I could be a little enthusiatic about Uggla, but only if he could be relied on for decent defense in LF.

Actually, if we can’t come up with better options, I would likely vote for focusing on a legit leadoff hitter instead.

by fandave on Nov 12, 2009 1:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree

McLouth wasn’t all that good of a leadoff hitter (here is where everyone batters me with statistics), from what I could see. I’d rather see him lower in the order.

by John Holton on Nov 12, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Diaz should bat leadoff. McLouth should bat something like 7th.

by redwards95 on Nov 12, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

From what I can find Uggla has never played the outfield at the ML level and only has about 20 total outfield chances in his entire professional career, so i’m not sure how well he would transition defensively to left.

They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream!

-We miss you Skip!

by RaymondBatista on Nov 12, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

based on the past few years, I would argue that defensive ability in the OF is not one of the Braves’ concerns…lol

"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."

by justincredubil02 on Nov 12, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It should be.
Pitching and defense, plus team speed, can put a team into contention.
I like McLouth as a player. I don’t like him in CF and I don’t like him in the leadoff slot of the batting order.

by fandave on Nov 12, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

willingham

is a very low cost option with lots of pop… he wouldn`t cost us too much in prospects or dollars for next year. but i think he could really thrive in our cleanup spot.

he`d have a lot to prove in 2010, and could summon a big year in 2011 before his jump to free agency as well, as lots of players seem to do.

that`d leave us plenty of money for first base and closer duties.

by dave462 on Nov 12, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Dude is a butcher in the field, and there’s been no sign the Nats want to move him.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So are most LF options

and there is no indication that they are against moving him either. They have needs to fill…

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but Willingham and Dunn are epicly bad fielders.

They take field butchery to a whole new level.

Those gentlemen were born to be DHs.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

With Adam Dunn on our team, we would have been in the playoffs this year.

People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by mvandonsel on Nov 12, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A true fact.
The GA signing was a very consequential, very bad decision.

by fandave on Nov 12, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At the time, we had the funds to either bring in a big name SP or a big OF bat. SP was a huge concern at the time, and we got outbid on Burnett, so Lowe seemed like an adequate back-up plan. There weren’t enough funds to bring in Dunn after that.

Using hindsight, yeah we probably should have targeted Dunn.

Can I also use hindsight to let everyone who was advocating signing Ben Sheets know that that would’ve been a terrible move?

Hell, we would have been better off picking up Randy Wolf and Bobby Abreau. Not many were advocating that at the time.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude...

All I was commenting on was this:

Yeah, but Willingham and Dunn are epicly bad fielders.

They take field butchery to a whole new level.

Those gentlemen were born to be DHs.

Nothing to do with hindsight, I am not talking about money, and I am not saying that we should have signed him. All I know is this, if we would have had Dunn, we would have made the playoffs regardless of how bad he is in the field. A big bat is what we desperately needed this year. That’s all I was commenting on.

I understand that none of us are GMs, and I personally love the job Frank Wren has done. However, speaking of Ben Sheets, many people didn’t want to sign him (on this website and obviously in the Braves front office), no hindsight needed there. There have been red flags on that guy for a while now.

Similarly, a ton of people (on this website but obviously not in the Braves front office) wanted to sign Dunn. Again, I feel like there is no hindsight needed here either, you can pencil the guy in for pretty solid numbers. However, it turns out that the Braves brass decided to go in a different direction and that is fine by me, they are the pros.

People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by mvandonsel on Nov 12, 2009 8:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There were plenty of people here that wanted to sign Sheets.

I just feel like some of the people here get carried away with how bad the Braves screwed up with the Dunn thing. We were either going to get an impact starter or an impact bat, and I’ve seen some responses from people that act like it’s ridiculous we didn’t get both. When, at the time, a “front of the line starter” was a huge concern for us (especially when the Peavy and Burnett things fell through). I was also trying to highlight the payroll restrictions Wren had to work with. If I came off like a prick, that’s my bad.

I’m pretty sure we were all bummed about the GAnderson signing, though.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough...People around these parts do get carried away sometimes.

Nah, you didn’t come off like a prick, I guess my only point is that when a guy can mash like Dunn, you put up with his shortcomings in the field.

P.S. I am soooooo glad we didn’t sign Sheets.

People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by mvandonsel on Nov 13, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cameron would be fine by me

He would give us a plus defensive center fielder with some pop. McLouth could switch to left field where he would probably rate as a plus fielder instead of being a minus in CF. Plus Cameron probably wouldn’t be really expensive.

by KC Ryan on Nov 12, 2009 3:04 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

this is exactly how i feel…predicated upon us signing LaRoche or a bat who can hit 4th..bc Cameron cant bat 4th… but he is a perfect 5th or 6th hitter (depending on if McCann is int he lineup or not.

plus he defense is nothing short of wonderful

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought LaRoche had a clause in his contracts that prohibits him from hitting 4th? I mean, why else would Bobby continually bat him 7th?

"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."

by justincredubil02 on Nov 12, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think a lot of people are in favor of Cameron. I wouldn’t mind seeing him as a Braves player and he’s much better than a lot of other players that are available.

Unless Wren can work some magic and pull of a nice trade.

by Sparhawk on Nov 12, 2009 3:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Of those so called opitions I pick ?

Dan Uggla for sure and X. Nady as well. Think about this lineup;

1.)Mclouth or Schafer (CF)
2.)M. Prado (2nd Base)
3.)C. Jones (3rd Base)
4.)D. Uggla (LF)
5.) Big Mac ©
6.) Y. Escobar (SS)
7.)Roachy (1B)
8.)X. Nady / Diaz (RF)
9.) Pitcher spot

Of course alot of this depends on where D. Lowe is moved to or Vasquez/KK ? And of course if we are willing to shell out the money to resign Roachy and hopefully Gonzo. Heyward is not going to make this team out of spring training but he will be one this team right after the all-star break for sure.

X.Nady could come very cheap and their isn’t much of a market for him so we could get him on a one year deal and be happy with the results. Hey he cannot be any worse than G. Anderson was this year, lol.

Cameron, Byrd, Dejesus, etc… are junk and should not even be considered as opitions. Funny as hell that they were even listed.

Still like Nady and we need to get him as a insurance type player if nothing else, only other team talking about bringing him back is the Yankees and if they do look for the Braves to trade D-Lowe to the Yankees to get either Swisher/Nady and another similar type minor leaguer.

Go Braves.

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Cameron is junk

really? because he is a gold glove calibur CF, oh wait, lets rephrase that so that it has value…
He is a great CF, hits 20 HR’s per year with league average OBP, and he can even run a bit. Tell me how that is “junk”.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know you didn't just say that Cameron at his age is gold glove caliber ? Seriously man plzz.

Typical why do you want a older, over paid OF ? we already have two great CF’s anyway and you think that Cameron is going to hit 35-40 homeruns a year and going to scare anyone from pitching around Chipper please.

We need a #4 cleanup hitter and of these opitions the best is Uggla. Period.

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not saying he is a perfect option

but he is an option. And yes, GG calibur.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So an older player can't be a good fielder?

I love all the stats and analysis you use to back up that proposition. His defense has remained stellar.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and I never

said anything abou thim being a cleanup hitter, or hitting 40 HR’s, in fact, I said 20 HR’s…

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know he DID just say that

No one gives a damn about his age, his defense has not dropped off. And if you’ll bother to read the other comments you’ll realize no one thinks he’s going to bat cleanup and blast 30+ homers. The guy you’re refuting stated Cameron is a perennial 20+ homerun man, which is true, yet you somehow took that to mean we all think he’s going to be Ryan Howard. But he is still somewhat above average offensively and still has some pop left, and he remains one of the better defensive centerfielders in the game.

Don’t rag on somebody else because you’re ignorant enough to think that age is an end-all-be-all indicator of one’s defense (Ever heard of Omar Vizquel? I thought not). Do your homework next time so you don’t embarass yourself anymore.

by J-Freak on Nov 12, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Heyward will be up before the ASB

Once the super-two stage passes, there will be no reason to keep him down. I am not particularly thrilled about that line-up, however. Uggla’s a solid power bat, but with the fielding disparity, I think Cameron would be a better fit even if he isn’t as good a hitter. Cameron is hardly junk, either—-he continually has an OPS+ over 100 and has always been a great fielder. I am not sure how that qualifies as junk. Plus, he is a free agent so we don’t have to trade for him, and he is Class B, so we don’t lose a pick for signing him. And, he’s a local boy, which is always nice.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nady and Byrd do nothing for me.

I don’t really see how DeJesus improves our deficiencies (power and and overly-LH lineup), but Uggla and Cameron are pretty intriguing.

I’m behind Cameron if the price is right (5-7mil per on a 1 or 2 year deal?).

Who is playing first for this team? Can Uggla move here? Are we prepared to deal with Rochey hitting clean up during his almost inevitable first half slump next year?

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 4:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i think our first half with LaRoche will be a struggle, but maybe Cameron will go all 09 first half Cameron and dominate… and think how dangerous our team would be in the second half (think this year’s second half plus Heyward and LaRoche throughout)

and we wont be in the hole we were last year with FYF and injured Logan, and unlucky KJ

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I really like the Cameron option (like a lot of others) just on his defensive prowess alone. Moving Nasty Nate to LF and getting Schafer some ABs in AAA seems like a win-win as well. Not to mention the guy is a near lock to hit 20+ HRs (even though he’s getting up there in age).

Matty Diaz will be adequate in RF if/when Heyward is ready.

That’s not a bad defensive outfield…

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

who’s arm is better Nate’s or Diaz.’s… both are weak, but whose is worse… i was under the impression Diaz was weaker than Nate…although i could be wrong

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As I recall

the opposite is true, but I have no data.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

according the UZR McLouth has a better arm rating when looking at OF data (although) im not sure how it works so i dont know what that means

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Seems to me like neither are great but I’d take Diaz’s in a head to head competition.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 13, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just took a look at GAnderson's page on Fangraphs

It makes me weep that Bobby was consistently batting him 5th most nights, and even 3rd or 4th whenever Chipper or Mac were out of the lineup.

What a waste.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 4:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I will agree with that Get Swoll yunel.

Which is why I don’t want another aging vet OF in our OF, if Cameron is all we can get then just let Heyward start the season in the bigs and be done with it. Say the money and keep all of our pitching.

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ahh, now I see the problem

You assume that all older OF’s are Garrett Anderson. They are not. Remember, before last year, Anderson mostly DH’d. Cameron has remained a plus hitter and fielder. They are not the same player.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Man you guys are looking at the "hometown boy stuff again"

You guys seriously want Mike Cameron on this team are you crazy; yes he is junk sorry. Plus I thought most people on here were counting on Schafer as being on CF of the future and Cameron is a CF correct. Nate M. is our best OF so he is going to be on our team.

Just funny how Cameron’s name comes up and everybody jumps on the bandwagon b/c he is from GA ?

Nady did just as well the last full season he played as far as RBI’s and Homers.

You cannot still say that Cameron is a true leadoff or speed demon. Give me Nate over him anyday as far as OF and plus Nady can play 1B in a emergency or late inning situation and their is nothing written in stone that we are going to bring Roachy back but I hope we do.

Nady or Cameron hmm; I will go with the cheaper opition and take Nady. Plus Cameron is not what this team needs which is why he is not going to be signed, period. And if he is then why do you need Nate?

Go Braves

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Real communication problem here

the hometown thing is more about possibly getting him at a nice price, I don’t care where he is from otherwise. Hell, I’m not even from Georgia, nor have I ever lived within 100 miles of the state!

Cameron doesn’t have to be traded for, he just costs money, which is nice. And McClouth would still be on the team, he would just move to LF where is defense plays better. He can still hit in the same spot, this wouldn’t really change McClouth’s situation. Cameron plays really good CF defense.

And he hits pretty well, average OBP, and has pop. Nothing wrong with that.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think anyone is suggesting we should sign him because he’s from GA. This isn’t college sports. He could be from Mars for all I care.

The guy is still an elite CF defensively and his bat plays well there. He hits for decent power and and has an adequate OBP. Because of his age and desire to play in ATL, we could probably sign him for below market value. Clearly, he isn’t ideal in the lead off role, but then again neither is McLouth.

McLouth is not an elite defensive CF and would probably be better suited to play in LF. Cameron’s addition would presumably improve our defense in two different positions from last season.

Nady has had injury problems his whole career, and he gives you similar offensive production to McLouth and Cameron. Also, he can only play the corner OF spots (and maybe 1B?) and he is worse defensively than both of those guys. No thanks.

It would be better for you to learn how to try and judge the value of players before you go offhandedly dismissing them as “junk”.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Cameron played 149 games last year, and had an OPS of .795. He’s hit over 20 home runs and driven in 70 or more runs each of the last 4 years. He also plays excellent, if not outstanding, defense. And, if you look at his numbers, he’s actually gotten better and more consistent as he’s gotten older.

Xavier Nady only played in 7 games last year, so right there you have to question what you’re going to get out of him in 2010. In 07 and 08 he OPSed over Cameron’s .795 from last year, but those are the only two years in his career where he has. And, by even the most forgiving of judgments, he’s, at the absolute best, a slightly below average defender.

Really, if the money is even close, this isn’t a contest. Cameron brings a lot more to the field with him. After 2008 this probably would have gone easily to Nady, because his offense was much better, but, at the moment, Cameron is a reliable player and Nady is not.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 12, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would it be a repeat of last year?

it is a completely different situation.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And for the record

I am a fan of any player who can help the Braves win. Cameron is a possibility, no need to get upset.

And yes, he can help the team. The stats pretty much bear that out, as do the scouting reports.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And you are the Dan Uggla fan club?

Or maybe the Jordan Schafer fan club as you have him penciled in your line-up in Atlanta before Heyward arrives, which is seriously questionable. I doubt a Cameron signing (which would likely mean Diaz is on the way out) would not particularly block Schafer as it would be a one-year deal in all likelihood and I think the Braves still want Schafer to log some AAA time, which he hasn’t the past two years because of suspension and injury.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You know, it’s hysterical that you ream Cameron and support Uggla, because the difference between them is a few homeruns more to Uggla and a Grand Canyon defensive divide in favor of Cameron. All else being equal, I’d trade a couple of homers for an entire season’s worth of better defensive from two positions (CF is upgraded by Cameron, LF is upgraded by McLouth shifting over).

Honestly man, look at the evidence and get all your facts straight, because you come across as an ignorant doof who has randomly pulled the one guy he’ll support out of a hat and decided that everyone he didn’t pick is therefore a pile of dog excrement, because it’s a zero-sum game.

by J-Freak on Nov 12, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not if you bring in Cameron it will not be.

I cannot even come close to your manner of thinking. You are being defensive and not seeing this from a business standpoint period. Think as if you are Frank Wren and have all your money tried up in pitching. Hello ?

I am done with this b/c this is just getting silly and more crazy with every statement you write.

Later

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it seemed pretty pointless trying to argue with you, too.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

actually

I think that, from a business standpoint, this is a defensible position. Uggla is arb eligible, remember. He won’t be paid league minimum, and he costs whatever in a trade as well as money…

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 12, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You realize that it is your statements that are silly and crazy, right?

You assume that Cameron is just like Anderson because both are aging OF’s. (And calling Anderson an OF as opposed to a DH is a bit generous, lol.) You state that signing Cameron is no better than signing nobody, even though his defense would be an improvement despite your disbelief. You list McLouth or Schafer as the lead-off CF next year even though there is no chance McLouth gets displaced even if Schafer comes up. And you state that Cameron is silly from a money standpoint even though he is unlikely to cost any more than what Uggla gets at arbitration. The only thing you have right is that this is getting silly and more crazy.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also, why the hell wouldn’t it make sense to load up on outfield defense to support our flyball prone pitching? Oh, that’s right, because you clearly have no understanding of the value of defense. You know what we should do, get a bunch of Ryan Howard type sluggers and put them in every spot on the field. If defense doesn’t matter, than why do we even bother? And Mike Cameron may have been the best CF in the NL last year, fielding wise. He’s not GA. Not even close.

by Perrinbar on Nov 12, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Mike Cameron were like Garrett Anderson

We could get him for 1.5 million like GA. Not going to happen, he is a far superior player and everyone knows it.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

reply button please

"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"

by Doghnut on Nov 12, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

100th Comment.

Yeah, im not interested in any of those options. Unless Uggla could play a decent LF.

MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...

by nick9314 on Nov 12, 2009 6:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

105 comments?

Damn. Im not gonna even bother sifting through all these comments to say how i feel. My thoughts on the 5 guys:

Marlon Byrd: No. No. No. BIG NO. Unless you’re a superstar like Tex was or Kinsler is, I wouldn’t touch a Ranger with a 10 foot pole.

Nady: Uhh…No thanks. If Xavier Nady is our big bat, Jason Heyward better be in there from day 1 and hit about 40 HRs.

Mike Cameron: I’d take him. Great defense, great guy (met him at a banquet in St. Louis a few years back; very cool and funny) and can still hit the ball. He’d be a great 7th hitter for us. A 4 man OF of Cameron, McLouth, Diaz and Heyward would be strong. Heyward would be an everyday guy in RF, and then we could work a 3 man platoon in CF and LF with MattyD, McLouth and Cameron. Also, Cameron would probably sign a 1 or 2 year contract. This gives Schafer a ton of time to develop in the minors.

Uggla: He’d be a good power hitter, but has he ever played LF? He seems kinda short and stocky to be running the balls down in the gap.

David DeJesus: Fuck no.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 12, 2009 7:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This is pretty much exactly what’s already been said.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well then

i guess i saved myself some time!

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 12, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, on the positive side...

…you have a lot of people agreeing with you—-including me. Cameron is the best bet of the group. The only quibble I have is that once you bring Heyward up, you might as well move Diaz. Heyward, McLouth, and Cameron is an every day outfield and Diaz is too good a hitter for a fourth OF. You can trade him for a real fourth OF and pick up a B+/A- prospect.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd only trade Diaz for a really solid prospect

We all saw how much McLouth struggled against lefties. Heyward is also going to need days off against tough lefties since it’ll be his first time going through the strains of a major league season. MattyD is an absolute beast against lefties and could be a huge asset for us off the bench.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 12, 2009 9:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I stand by my original pass, pass, pass, pass, and pass. Remember, we’re looking for an “impact” bat.

by gondeee on Nov 12, 2009 7:51 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

With a limited payroll and limited trading pieces.

Bay and Holliday are clearly off the radar.

Lowe’s contract gives him little to know value in a trade.

Kelly Johnson’s off year really hurt his stock. Not to mention dealing him would give justincredibul an aneurysm.

Javy is a nice piece, but his one contract year left and no trade clause to a 1/3 of the teams in the league also really hinders his value.

It’s nice wishful thinking to want a singular “impact bat”, but teams like the Braves need to be need to explore every avenue that they can to improve the club.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I need to proofread more and quit repeating myself.

by get swoll yunel on Nov 12, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree.

We are closer than needing an impact bat, and let’s face it, there aren’t many available in our price range. The only one I can see is Carlos Lee in a trade for Lowe, but I doubt the Astros go for that without too good a prospect thrown in, and Lee is crap in the field as well. Remember, you can win with 8 guys hitting 15-25 HR’s and good pitching too.

by cavebird on Nov 12, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

as "impact" no,...

as the complimentary piece (seeing how we probably add two position players—a 1B and RF/LF to fill in until the dynamic duo arrive), then a couple get a maybe.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 13, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I want Andre Either

Not some has-been in Uggla. Not some second-tier free agent.
If a major trade has to be made, like for Javy (which I can’t stand the thought of-he’s happy, we’re happy, keep him!) then it must be for the best piece of the puzzle we can get, with some long-term potential. If Lowe and player x (especially if that’s Kelly Johnson) can be packaged, DO THAT and keep Javy.

by Audi on Nov 12, 2009 8:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

good point bc guys who are cost controlled for 4 more seasons and OPS over 900 fall off trees everyday

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Nov 12, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hope you don’t plan on getting ethier with just vazquez…

try tommy hanson and vazquez and they might begin to talk about it

"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly

by Hcgadawgs on Nov 13, 2009 8:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Atlanta Braves.
Start posting about the Braves »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

Cbs_fantasy_baseball_promo

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
SB Nation Survey + Chance to donate $500 to a charity of this community's choice
Raymug2_small
Smoltz isn't similar to Eckerlsey. He's better. Much better.
12475953_small
2010 NL East Fan Projections: RPs
Heywardaaa_small
Like College Basketball? Join March Madness at Talking Chop!
12475953_small
2010 NL East Fan Projections: OFs

Recent FanPosts

Seal_small
Mlb.tv for out of area fans?
Small
Heywardisms
Small
I know it's "only spring training," but is it time to be concerned about McLouth?
Zoidberg-why_small
WTF happened to the Braves on 30 in 30?
Small
When should Heyward play -- Analysis
Heywardaaa_small
Predicting the Braves' 2010 Lineup: #2 Hitter
Crowder_channing_small
I need your help

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Washington Nationals pitcher Stephen Strasburg throws during the second inning of  a spring training baseball game against the Detroit Tigers Tuesday, March 9, 2010 in Viera, Fla. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)

Nationals Send Stephen Strasburg To Double-A Despite Impressive Spring

Seattle Mariners pitcher Cliff Lee speaks during a baseball news conference at Safeco Field in Seattle on Friday, Jan. 22, 2010. Lee was acquired by the Mariners in a trade with the Philadelphia Phillies last December. (AP Photo/John Froschauer) link

Cliff Lee Out With Right Abdominal Strain

Detroit Tigers' Gerald Laird, left, is greeted by teammates Ryan Strieby, center, and Miguel Cabrera who were on base for his third-inning grand slam off New York Yankees pitcher Joba Chamberlain during a spring training baseball game in Lakeland, Fla., Wednesday, March 10, 2010.  (AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar)

SB Nation's 2010 MLB Previews: Detroit Tigers, Sights Set On Success

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Gondeee_small gondeee

Authors

My_hair_is_a_bird-257x300_small yondaime4

Dsc01731_small royhobbs

Tc_small cbwilk