Late October/Early November Rosterbation
by cbwilk on Oct 28, 2009 11:44 PM EDT
295 comments
Well, I thought maybe everyone could show some restraint, but it appears we have a site full of chronic rosterbators. So, here's the new rosterbation thread. Please post your rosterbation ideas here and only here. If you post them somewhere else, they will get deleted. Like connollybp's post "Lowe's gotta go..." which I have delete and put below with its comments:
Lowe's gotta go....
by connollybp on Oct 28, 2009 6:13 PM PDT 14 comments, 14 new
We have to try to unload Lowe's FULL contract....if we have to pay $5 mill a year or more I think it makes sense to keep him and trade KK or Vazquez...I am trying to brainstorm who needs the most pitching and has the $$$.
Mets?
Cubs?
Rangers? (Ground Ball pitcher makes sense in that park...come on over Nelson Cruz!!!)
If we hang on to Vazquez we have top rotation in NL 1-4 (excluding Lowe and KK)
1. Hudson
2. Javy
3. JJ
4. Tommy H
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We need a new rosterbation post.
But ya, I’d like to trade DLowe as well.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 28, 2009 6:20 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
He can block trades to West teams so that rules out the Dodgers. Unlikely the Mets are going to take him off our hands. Cubs might be willing once their ownership gets settled and they know what they can spend. Brewers are a small market team who wants to keep salary low. The Rangers are borrowing money from MLB so thats unlikely.
He’s going to be very tough to move. The only way I see us trading him is if we swap bad contracts with someone.
by jack dein on Oct 28, 2009 6:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Vazquez is the one that can block trades to the NL and AL West
by McCann's the Man on Oct 28, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only truly logical fit is the Dodgers, who have big BIG question marks in their rotation, with the struggles Billingsley went through this year and Randy Wolf leaving. They have Clayton Kershaw, and if he keeps it together better next year Billingsley, but then it’s a crap shoot from there. I don’t what their financials look like other than needing to give arb raises to a large handful of guys, but they’re the closest thing to a perfect fit we’re going to find if we want to dump the full salary. If we eat some, I could see the Cubs getting interested, maybe the Angels with the departure of Lackey. If you’d asked me earlier I would have said the White Sox, but I imagine they’re strapped now with Peavy and Rios.
by J-Freak on Oct 28, 2009 7:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if the dodgers wanted Lowe, they would have just re-signed him last offseason, maybe im the only one that thinks that though
by McCann's the Man on Oct 28, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PerhapsBut maybe they’ll reconsider wanting him back now. I say that because of how messy their pitching situation is right now, as stated above. He was a rock in their rotation for four years, putting up very consistent, and good, numbers. They might welcome him back with open arms considering how ugly their rotation has gotten. Unless they sign John Lackey- if they do that, consider all my speculation here moot.
by J-Freak on Oct 28, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put Lowe on Waivers
Along with Kenshin
Sexy Rotation:
Javy
JJ
Hanson
Hudson
Medlen
Idk about u guys, but im also digging the extra 23 mill a year we’d have to spend on a power bat. Matt Holiday anyone?
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Oct 28, 2009 7:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Waivers only exist in AugustHe’s got to be either traded or outright released. And he won’t be released, I promise, cuz then we’re on the hook for all $45 mil, minus the major league minimum, which will be payed by the team that signs him. They’d much sooner eat some of the contract in a trade than release him. If they don’t find a trading partner he’ll be here next year, that would be his only way out of town.
by J-Freak on Oct 28, 2009 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine, then wait till August to do it if u can't find a trading partner
How about this deal….
Lowe & Cashhhh
For
Angel Pagán
Idk, but if they are gonna take Lowe off our hands, I think that they are gonna need about Tree Fiddy.
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Oct 28, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please be joking.Please, for the love of all that is holy, tell me you only proposed that for shits and giggles…
Oh, and don’t be givin the Loch Ness monster no damn tree fiddy!
by J-Freak on Oct 28, 2009 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn, hahahahah tree fiddy hahahahha makes me laugh everytime hahahahha.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 28, 2009 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This whole thread should endby hoboken_wood on Oct 28, 2009 8:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL Did I miss something about Kenshin Kawakami? I mean last time I checked he was a pretty effective pitcher for us after his first month of the season…
by yondaime4 on Oct 28, 2009 8:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
THISAnd I’ll even admit I was one fo the early guys to push the panic button him… But he certainly did a better job than Lowe. I don’t how he’s gotten so overlooked…
by J-Freak on Oct 28, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is that off of????
5 recs |
295 comments
Comments
connollybp, I know this was your first post, so I’m sorry it had to be deleted and moved, but this is our attempt on the site to keep things more orderly. I hope this doesn’t deter you from being involved in the conversation in the future.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 28, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pure Speculation
James Loney, anyone game?
by the way, where did this “who hangs up first” crap originate (ie. Jason Heyward for Albert Pujols- who hangs up first Cards or Braves?)
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Oct 28, 2009 11:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No thanks on Loney. He’s Casey Kotchman with a little more power and a little less defense. I’d much rather have Roachy.
And the Cardinals would laugh, hang up, and then call back again, just to laugh some more and then hang up for a 2nd time
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 29, 2009 12:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I like Loney. He’s a good player whose still young and controllable as he enters his first year of arbitration. The only issue with him is that he’s really a better version of Kotchman. That and the Dodgers would want to much for him.
by jack dein on Oct 29, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Loney too (actually, I like almost all of the players on the Dodgers), but he’s not what we need, IMO.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 29, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree big time. Loney and Kotch are very very similar. Kotchman plays better D, Loney will hit you more homers. Pretty similar player. Not much of an upgrade over Kotchman if you ask me…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 29, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t want that to sound like I wanted him. He doesn’t really solve anything and would cost a lot to bring to Atlanta.
by jack dein on Oct 29, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't really solve anything
Roachie is a better option than Loney. We need an outfielder, and though LA has two great options there, for that very reason I’m positive they wouldn’t even entertain thoughts of moving them. Kemp and Ethier will be the foundation of their offense for at least the next couple of years.
I believe mvhs answered your other question in about the best way possible.
by J-Freak on Oct 29, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we got Kemp or Ethier, I would probably poop my pants. There’s just no way tho. We’d have to give…oh man, at least JJ or Hanson for Ethier and then probably include Schafer if we wanted to get Kemp.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 29, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd crap my pants from excitement too
There is absolutley no way, in case I didn’t state that clearly enough, I was just making the point that our need is not so much for any ol’ bat we might able to get, but specifically for an outfielder, which Loney is not. Passing on Roachie to go get Loney seems incredibly stupid as he’s a downgrade and would cost us at least one of the relatively small number of high caliber prospects we have left after Freeman and Heyward.
by J-Freak on Oct 29, 2009 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im thinkin’ it’d take heyward to get ethier or kemp
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 29, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we don't need an OF...
McLouth, Diaz and Church are currently on around, with Heyward and Schafer looking like they’ll be up by the All Star break. If we add an OF, one of Schafer/McLouth should go to make room.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 29, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Church will probably get non-tendered, it’s overwhelmingly likely that Schafer spends at least a couple of months at AAA, and there’s no guarantee Heyward starts the year in the Majors. That gives an opening day lineup of Diaz, McLouth, and I guess Infante, that we can be certain of. Rightfield will probably be Heyward’s by June at the latest, but still, all things considered, LF is the most logical place to stick the bat we’re hoping to acquire. What, you want to attempt to acquire Chase Utley? Where else are we gonna stick a bat?
by J-Freak on Oct 29, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the plan is for Schafer and Heyward to start in AAA...
why non-tender Church? In the least you’ve got a starter until they are ready, and someone who can slide into a 4th OF role just fine. And if you say he’s too expensive for that, understand whatever you replace him with (since it isn’t Schafer or Heyward, or even Brandon Jones/Gregor Blanco/Reid Gorecki/Matt Young) is going to be as expensive if not much more so?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 29, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The who hangs up first comes from the Chat Wraps that ESPN and BA do. Usually when they get into the lightening round you will get a couple of who hangs up first type questions.
by yondaime4 on Oct 29, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tommy Hanson and Jordan Schafer for Matt Kemp. Who hangs up first?
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 29, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Julio Teheran and Freddie Freeman for Andre Ethier. Who hangs up first?
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 29, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough call
My gut said Dodgers, because Ethier is still very cheap, under control a few more seasons, and has established himself among the elite sluggers. And despite what we all know, there’s been word recently that some scouts are souring on Freeman, which would make it harder for them to accept him for Ethier.
That being said, I remembered FW’s comments about Teheran and how he seems to have a hard sabermetrical stiffy for him, so I don’t know that he’d be willing to move him. I’m not sure who hangs up first on that one.
by J-Freak on Oct 29, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure FW doesn’t do Sabermetrics. And scouts weren’t impressed by Freeman’s first 4 days, as Callis said he is coming back from a wrist injury and had some rust to shake off. Those same scouts are probably telling a different story now that Freddy is hitting baseballs like he hates them…
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 29, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point about Freeman, I was just writing on the spur of the moment based on the most recent press.
FW I’m sure doesn’t use advanced sabermetrics, but the term sabermetrics has come to mean baseball statistics in general, and I remember an article or two earlier this year wherein FW gushed over Teheran, thus my (poor) attempt at humor.
by J-Freak on Oct 29, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cool. thanks
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Oct 29, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rec button isnt working
I get an error message whenever i try to click it
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 29, 2009 1:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well…that’s gonna be frustrating in a few days…
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 29, 2009 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, so i was over at the Orioles site http://www.camdenchat.com/2009/10/22/1096791/the-rotation and nobody seemed particularly opposed to picking up Lowe, so long as they gave up no significant prospects.
7/10/09-A New Dawn.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Oct 29, 2009 3:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops. Hit the wrong button. I was gonna say that this makes sense if you think of this as a straight up salary dump. Gives the O’s a durable, veteran presence coming off of a year where his mainstream stats didnt quite match his peripherals. Costs them nothing but money, which Peter Angelo has already demonstrated he isn’t afraid to spend. (Melvin Mora anyone?) Frees us 45 mil over the next 3 years to spend on a bat. I think this would be a deal that could honestly benefit both clubs.
Let the flaming begin.
PS. Kudos to the O’s fans for being the most fair and level headed fan base pf anyone on SBNation that I have seen. (Including TC) They dont really overvalue their prospects like most do, nor do they undervalue the merit of free agents/trade targets. I am quite impressed by their attitude.
7/10/09-A New Dawn.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Oct 29, 2009 3:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it’s easy to be level headed when you’ve been terrible forever. I’ve always thought of Orioles fans as pretty passionless.
If the Braves really just wanted to be able to dump salary, I guess this would be an Ok move, so long as they’re able to get back at least a fringey prospect, like Pedro Beato, or a guy who could be a bullpen arm, like Kam Mickolio, or somebody who could be useful off the bench, like Justin Turner. Of course, a guy like Brandon Waring would be nice, since he’d automatically become the best candidate to replace Chipper in the future and they already have Josh Bell, who’s younger and has proven himself at a higher level.
Of course, this move only works if it allows the Braves to somehow pick up a slugger.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 29, 2009 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A salary dump would not be the most wonderful move ever, but it would be substantially better than standing pat and having the big commitment to Lowe as a ball and chain preventing us from filling our urgent need for a RH power hitter to fill the 4 hole in the order and play LF or 1B.
by fandave on Oct 29, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally...
the Lowe rosterbation is easy to me. See if you can swap him (or maybe KK) with the White Sox for Paul Konerko, if they say no try and get a couple of young, low level IF prospects. Doesn’t have to be a big timer, just to try and replenish the system there.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 29, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theoretically, wouldn’t any “salary dump” move in which we don’t have to eat part of his deal free up $15M to go pay a slugger?
by J-Freak on Oct 29, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it could go to pay a slugger, but that’s contingent on actually being able to acquire one somehow. If you can get Jason Bay or Matt Holliday as a free agent, that’s great, but there’s also going to be some stiff competition for them. And if you’re looking to trade for a guy, then you’ve got to think about what prospects you’re willing to give up, and for who. One of the ideas with Lowe has been that he does have some value and could be used directly as part of getting the slugger.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 29, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’d be a helluva deal if we could get it done IMO…scott would give us our much needed power and his average might be a little better playing on a winning ball club…also it would free up some money for maybe a closer
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 29, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps Luke Scott for Lowe? I know that Scott bats left handed but he isn’t a guy that has a guaranteed multi year deal where when Heyward, Schafer and McLouth are all in the OF we could just deal Scott, let Scott go as a FA and maybe get a pick for him or still end up tradin him. But he seems like a more ideal fit cause we dont have to have his salary as a burden unlike a Carlos Lee or someone like that. Seems like that could be a legit deal, they have some young stud SP comin up, Lowe has won a championship, im sure he could help those guys out some.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 29, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If we are stealing a young power hitting OF from the Orioles...
why not aim for Nolan Reimold? What would people think of say Lowe and Cody Johnson for Reimold?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 29, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think they’d be very willing to give up Reimold, and even if they were, I don’t see why the Braves would have to add on Cody when they’re already giving the O’s an ace pitcher (and even if you don’t think Lowe is an ace, he’d easily be one in Baltimore).
That being said, I’ve been a fan of Reimold for years and would love to have him play for Atlanta. But, he’s not really the slugger we need.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 29, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who ever said we are stealing a young power hitting OF from the Orioles? Luke Scot is what 31 years old? Thats not exactly young, its not old but its certainly not young and the guy isn’t THAT great, he is i would say above average but he does have the power that we need and we are sendin them Lowe so i dont see how we are stealin anyone from the…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 29, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, i mean Scott has i think 2 years of Arb left, this year and next so i mean he would work out fine that is if we couldn’t get a righty bat.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 29, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really think Lowe and the O’s is a good match. They have a good young rotation with a need for a veteran who pitches alot of innings and gives alot of quality games. Money ist really a problem for them but getting a big FA to sign there is, so trading for one for nearly nothing could be a good move for them.
I like the idea of getting Scott back in the deal but I’m prett sure we don’t get him straight up for Lowe. However whenever I talk to O’s fans they always ask for Hicks because they have very little MLB and prospect talent at SS. Thus:
Lowe and Hicks
for
Scott
by bbxxj on Oct 29, 2009 4:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Im not sure that we would have to put in Hicks BUT if thats all it takes then im all for it especially if they take on all that contract, im just not a fan of Hicks, im rootin for him but he just doesn’t really impress me.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 29, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would we want Scott?...
especially if we resigned LaRoche. Our lineup is already lefty heavy to begin with, why just compound the problem? If we go after anyone from Baltimore, I’m hoping for Nolan Reimold or Brian Roberts. Nick Markakis would be preferable to Luke Scott.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 30, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reimold would take alot more to aquire due to his service time and projectability. Roberts and Markakas are franchise players who would take a major piece like Jurrjens or Freeman along with Lowe.
Scott on the other hand would be a reasonable return as he is not a superstar but doesn’t have huge platoon splits and ~25HR power that can play RF/LF/1B. So he is a lefty, that’s why we keep RH monster Diaz in the wings to start against lefties.
Seriously, you can’t expect much more than Scott in return for Lowe and his salary.
by bbxxj on Oct 30, 2009 10:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I know Roberts would take a considerable package...
but plugging him in at leadoff and 2B would be a huge boon if it could be done without giving up a Heyward, Jurrjens, or such. Scott has a pretty small sample size at 1B, but that is an interesting idea to put him there and maybe produce similar to LaRoche.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 30, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LaRoche is a great defender nobody knows about Scott there so he would have to really supply alot of offense to make up for his more than louzy defense there.
Let me ask you a question. You said this, “I know Roberts would take a considerable package…” “it could be done without giving up a Heyward, Jurrjens, or such”
Alright yes it wouldn’t take that much but here is the question, what would we have to give up for him? Last i checked we have real good specs at the top then so so specs in the middle at the moment. I personally think it would take too much to get Roberts in a deal, and like i said in another post i would rather get an OF first then if a guy like Roberts trade demand came down then great but this is the same Roberts who has a owner in Angelos that absolutely LOVES Roberts. Angelos even nixed a LaRoche and somethin to the Orioles for Roberts and young SP Penn so its not gonna be cheap for Roberts thats for sure…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
more than LIKELY louzy defense there.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"nobody knows about Scott"...
but apparently you know enough to say he has “more than louzy defense” (it’s spelled lousy by the way).
As for Roberts and “what would we have to give up for him?”, do I seem like Andy MacPhail, or if I was, would I waste my time telling the answer to you?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 30, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GFY
you are an idiot you are a prick GFY… Now im bein rude to you cause your a idiot and did you not see my post where i replied RIGHT UNDERNEATH that post to fix my mistake? “more than LIKELY louzy defense there” I guess you didn’t see that, oh and thanks for the spellin lesson. Oh and GFY you little creampuff piece of shit, that rude enough for ya oh and btw….. ps….. GFY i mean that in the most literal sense that i typed that, have a nice day :)
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, same mistake...
nobody knows, but you know enough to say it’s more than likely. And you’ve spelled the word wrong 3 times now.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 30, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You misspell words as well. Well if he has never played 1B in his career in MLB or much of it and at 31 chances are his defense there wont be too good, thats just common sense, 1B is a much tougher position to play than most thinks, its a very important defensvie position, i dont want a stump out there i want a good defender and chances are Scott defense wont be too good at 1B but i could be wrong.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with you about 1B...
have a bad 1B, and it makes all your other positions look worse; while a great 1B can cover a lot of mistakes on bad throws.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 30, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good to see we agree on somethin today lol and not bitchin to each other.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Markakis is a lefty as well… and last i checked Scott season was just about as good as Markakis. I mean this is Lowe we are talkin about and like bbxxj said what the fuck you expect us to get for this guy i mean really… I say if we can get a good player whether he is a lefty or righty for Lowe i say great, i think you have your standards a lil too high but it should come down when you start hearin not so great rumors of who we might be gettin those very good young players will be gettin knocked out of your head or at least should…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any need to be that damn rude?...
And no one ever said we are dealing Lowe, and only Lowe. We can include him as part of a package with others, or were you aware of that fact? But hey, apparently you know what’s in my head, so bully for you.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 30, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually wasn’t rude really. You know you dont need to be so sensitive, hell there are 2 people that post on this site that said “fuck you” to me before which i thought was unneccessary but hey stuff happens. Oh yes im very aware that we can deal more than just Lowe BUT i dont see the Orioles desperate to deal Markakis unless they get a big time spec like Freeman or someone like that in the deal and i wouldn’t do that. And i would rather us get a OF than a Roberts mainly cause OF is more of a crucial need for us at the moment than 2B. No i dont know whats in your head but I can see that you have high hopes that we get somethin great in a Lowe deal which i just dont see unless we deal a big time spec. Now if we dealt Vaz then you can have some higher aspirations on who we will get. Again i wasn’t bein rude.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Message boards can't show tone...
it comes across as pretty damn rude with the unneccessary cursing and “getting knocked out of your head” or saying what my standards are. I’m sorry you got something stuck in your craw cause I feel the Tex deal is at a level where it is a horrible deal, but get over yourself.
There you go again telling what I think we’ll get in return for Lowe and you’re dead wrong. I’d be fine taking a couple 19 or 20 yr old A ball level IF prospects if that’s all we got offered, but apparently I have “high hopes that we get somethin great”. It’s rosterbation fantasy, and no one here knows what teams would take or give for anything.
And positionally, we have 2B more than OF, but we need a leadoff man, and Brian Roberts would be a definite upgrade over anything we’ve had since Furcal. KJ can play LF, Martin Prado plays RF in Venezuala apparently, so we’ve got plenty of versatility for moving guys around. OF isn’t a need, we have people who can play there. We need a big right handed bat (or just cleanup caliber power), and leadoff. Where they play can be fit in with the roster so long as it isn’t 3B, SS, or C.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 30, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think it’d be more ideal to get some prospects for lowe anyway, then we’d have a chance of signing bay or holliday…but not if we get someone of value that would likely have a pretty good sized salary
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 30, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love a couple of ...
prospects to help reload the system, especially at the much needed 2B and SS spots (with Hicks capable of playing 3B, I think that spot is fine with Linares, Sanchez, and Hanson too). I wouldn’t expect a guy that could immediately get in the top 10 here, but just a young guy (A/rookie ball age) with some potential for growth couldn’t hurt. But as you say, if you can bring back the something in any of the 3 major needs for this club (back end of the bullpen, cleanup/power and leadoff), then that’s obviously something that should be considered closely.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 30, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, and something like that would make mr. wren a god
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 30, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get over myself??? Dude i have the right to defend the deal so you get over YOURSELF. How do we know KJ can play effectively in LF now? He hasn’t been out there since Tommy John Surgery. Nobody knows how effective his arm will play there and he would have to have some damn good offense much much better than his 2009 season to be a quality LF for us. Im not so sure i would be too comfortable with Prado in OF just cause he plays it in Venezuela. (I corrected Venezuela for you cause misspelled it, see how nice i am :) )
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you for Venezuela...
and I don’t think position matters that much was the crux of the comment. We’ve got options for every position on the field should we need them with Diaz capable of right and left, Heyward and Schafer depending on the big club’s plan (start the season in AAA or in Ted, none of us really know), McLouth, Church if they want to keep him, there is no real glaring hole on the roster except for 1B, which if you got power in say Uggla and Holliday could be covered by Prado defensively, or Kotchman if the Red Sox didn’t keep him, or whoever since we wouldn’t need a slugger as much there.
As you can tell, we can probably move pieces around all day. Point is, we’ve got people capable of playing positions, the big need is a power bat and I think a leadoff hitter. Depending on who we can get there, be it Brian Roberts, Chone Figgins, BJ Upton, Paul Konerko, Jason Bay, Dan Uggla, Matt Holliday (again endless list here), I think we have the pieces to move around and accomodate them defensively. Other than SS (Escobar), 3B (Chipper), and C (McCann), I don’t think any other spot should be penciled in just yet because of the options described.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 30, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there is no way they’re gonna give up markakis
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 30, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Why would we want Scott?”
Cause he is a good player…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why are you a smart ass in everyone of your comments…you don’t have to prove anything..just talk damn baseball
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 30, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im a smartass? Well if you think i am then alot of posters on here are then, im not bein a smartass but the comment he said was kinda dumb by sayin “Why would we want Scott?” Well i answered it for him cause he is a good player lol wow.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not referring to that one comment or this one thread. 75% of your comments include you getting defensive and jumping down someones throat who has a differening opinion than you. there is a such thing as having a simple friendly debate about something…just sayin’..take it how ya want
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 30, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest with you im honestly not tryin to jump down peoples throats, and when i type this stuff i am beini calm actually very calm and i really thought that i was havin simple friendly debate with others. I appologize in advance if i sound like a smartass or bein a prick in a conversation that is most of the time not my intent, although if you look above to a reply to Mr. Sanchez ohhhhh definately its my intent to be a prick to him after he was with me…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luke Scott/Matt Diaz in LF as a platoon would give us the one of the best LF situations in baseball. If Baltimore wasn’t unreasonable on what they ask for Scott, I’d love to see us add him and let Scott and Matt handle LF for the next couple of years. Scott is about an .860 OPS vs righties and Matt is at .920 for his career against lefties. As I said, that’s a monster stat line for LF and neither is a butcher in the field, in fact Diaz is a plus in LF (don’t know about Scott)
by McCann's the Man on Oct 30, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott’s defensive stats look pretty good as well, this is by far my favorite solution to our LF “problem,” as of right now. Scott can be had for less than a stellar trade package, will be cheap, and is a good baseball player. Pairing him with Matt, bringing Heyward up for RF, and re-signing LaRoche solves our offensive woes and actually makes this a group that can put up some runs as well as defend well (outside of Chipper and McLouth)
by McCann's the Man on Oct 30, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Regards to Lowe
Sorry to break up the sweaty rosterbatory circle here, but lets try to keep in in reality.
Lowe has a big contract
Lowe will have to stay in the NL, scouts generally don’t like Lowe’s prospects in the AL.
Keep these in mind when making your posts.
I would ask this question:
What is an NL team with some wiggle room in the budget and a need for veteran starting pitching?
I can think of very few possibilities. Among them:
Rockies
Brewers
Pirates (?)
Dodgers
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 29, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
there’s no logical reason at all to say he couldnt succeed in the AL. In fact he’s done it before.
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 29, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he did
you are right. That was years ago and as I recall he finished his AL career in the pen. Most of the articles I have read say that Lowe is not considered an AL pitcher. Just going on what I have been reading. I could well be wrong, but he is generally considered an NL pitcher.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 2, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure the Mets need some pitching
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 29, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont care about trading Lowe to the division rival Mets cause i doubt they would trade us anything good and we would just be giving him to them cause of salary relief, i would rather find a team in another division to give Lowe to if we were gonna do that.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 29, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
along with the cubs and d backs, there are several possibilities
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 29, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like hcgadawgs said there is no logical reason the couldn’t do good in the AL. And plus you are forgetting a man named Peter Angelos. Yeah he is a pretty important man for the Orioles and what he wants he will try to get, not sayin he wants Lowe but if he wants him then the HELL with what the scouts think of Lowe in the AL…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 29, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep THIS in mind when talkin about the Orioles…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 29, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
great point? I mean, I know Angelos doesn’t listen to anything but the crazy voices in his head, but that doesn’t necessarily make the Orioles a factor in this discussion.
The fact is that Lowe was not an ace this year, and his contract approaches albatross levels because he is being paid like an ace. I would also point out that the Orioles/Angelos had the foresight not to get fleeced when the Braves under mastermind Scheurholz tried to steal Brian Roberts a few years back (using Marcus Giles as I recall).
So even if it was accepted that Lowe could be as successful in the AL, that doesn’t mean that the Braves will be able to march in and fleece the Orioles with him.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How would that have been a fleece? It had Adam LaRoche goin there as well and Penn was the other guy that would come back with Roberts and he is a bust so you look at LaRoche and Roberts that is no way a fleece on anybodies part.
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 3, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
Adam LaRoche is nice and all, but he is basically a slightly above average 1b in every way.
Brian Roberts is a top 5 2b in all of MLB along with Utley, Kinsler, Pedroia, and Phillips. This is not even a reasonable comparison. Roberts is much much more valuable than LaRoche. That would have been a fleecing.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WRONG
Brian Roberts
9th year-32 years old
77 HR, .284 AVG, .356 OBP, .421 SLG %, .776 OPS, .984 Fielding %, 443 RBI’s
Adam LaRoche
6th year- 29 years old
136 HR, .274 AVG, .343 OBP, .491 SLG%, .834 OPS, .995 Fielding %, 469 RBI’s
i don’t see the argument how brian roberts is better than adam in any way, except maybe his hot ass wife
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 3, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really want to have this debate with me
First, your comparison completely negects steals. Roberts has 256 of them, and that is about 250 more than Adam LaRoche.
But beyond that, you have to remember, Roberts plays at a more premium position. Roberts compares more favorably with the best second basemen in baseball like Ian Kinsler than LaRoche compares with the best First baseman like Pujols. In other words, LaRoche isn’t a premium player at 1b. Brian Roberts is at 2b.
Roberts’ WAR over the past three years is 12.5. LaRoche? 6.5. For comparison, Roberts ranks up with Brian McCann. LaRoche ranks with Kelly Shoppach.
I mean, Roberts is so exponentially better than LaRoche, you are absolutely kidding yourselves if you think otherwise. This isn’t a comparison at all whatsoever.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me try to explain this in a way you might understand
trading Roberts away for LaRoche is like saying you would trade a Jimmy Rollins away for a Brad Hawpe. On the surface, Brad Hawpe hits more home runs\more power in general, has a similar OBP… But Hawpe is a Left fielder, Jimmy Rollins is a SS. Jimmy Rollins thus is more valuable. It isn’t a trade anyone would make. Jimmy Rollins, for all intents and purposes, is a better player/more valuable commodity than Brad Hawpe. It would be a fleecing to trade Hawpe away for Rollins in the same way it would be a fleecing to trade LaRoche for Roberts.
I hope you understand the error of your analysis now. If not, I am at a loss to explain it to you, and I hope that someday you understand baseball a little better, but for the time being, may we someday meet in a fantasy league. I will happily trade you an Adam LaRoche for a Brian Roberts…
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and what is obp about?...
getting on AND scoring runs. So while Hawpe and Rollins get on at a similar rate, one is much easier/more likely to be driven home. Yeah, Rollins has Utley and Howard behind him. But who’s more likely to steal a base and “turn a single into a double”? Who’s more likely to go from first to third on a single, first to home on a double? OBP is much more valuable in a faster, better base runner like Rollins vs. Hawpe or Roberts vs. LaRoche.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 3, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
but don’t make this too complicated. These guys are obviously new at this. Let them get the basics down first…
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
roberts ranks…(and these are pretty much all of the major offensive categories)
10th in OBP
10th in OPS
11th in HR
13th in AVG
10th in SLG
4th in K’s
HOW IN THE HELL IS HE A PREMIUM PLAYER!
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 3, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there valuable in different ways of course roberts will get on and be more of a threat on the basepaths…but somebodys has to drive them in! and thats where laroche is valuable..
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 3, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know because...
apparently obp, slg (which make ops by the way), hr, avg, and k’s are the only way to value a player.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 3, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WOW way to insult me and Hcgadawgs. All i said is there would be no fleecing cause you originally said just Giles and that would have been a fleece but LaRoche has been an above average 1B with his great defense at first base. I never once said it would have been a great deal for either all i said is it wouldn’t have been a fleece and it wouldn’t have been and i stand by that. BTW… 2B is NOT a premium position just so you know.
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 3, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No
not trying to be insulting… but it would have been a fleece with LaRoche. And LaRoche has been only a little above average. Brian Roberts has been a lot above average at an offensively much shallower position than first.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and brian roberts doesnt even rank in the top 10 of most of the offensive stats compared to other 2B?
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 3, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He does
as in, he is top 5. In all of Major League Baseball. Period. LaRoche doesn’t even scratch the top 15 first basemen.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you are so wrong its not even funny
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 3, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please
its the whole package. The OBP (ranks 5th), the steals (2nd), the hits (8th), he hits lots of doubles (1st). Do yourself a favor. Go to ESPN.com, get on a chat-wrap with Keith Law. Ask him where Roberts ranks in terms of 2b. Guaranteed that he says 5th or better. It’s pretty common knowledge. Clearly you are new at statistical analysis and judging players, so I am trying to be nice, but trust me, you are the one who is very wrong in every way.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
apparently your getting your stats at the wrong place
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 3, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really
doesn’t matter where I got these particular stats (the 2009 stats from MLB.com, though I usually use ESPN). You are very wrong.
By the way, the list if 1b better than LaRoche
Pujols
Texeira
Morneau
Howard
Morales
Fielder
Youkilis
Gonzalez
Cabrera
Pena
Lee
Votto
Berkman
Branyan
Helton
And the list goes on from there. Its not that LaRoche is bad, its that he is mediocre in a stacked position.
Lets do 2b shall we?
1. Chase Utley
2. Ian Kinsler
3. Dustin Pedroia
4. Brandon Phillips (though I would probably put Roberts here).
5. Brian Roberts
6. Robinson Cano?
7. Orlando Hudson
8. Zobrist
9. F. Lopez
10. J. Lopez
Even if you ranked Roberts 10th on this list (which would be crazy), he would rank, as an overall player, higher (and exponentially so) than LaRoche. Reality is a bitch…
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here you go
This should help you.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=n&type=6&season=2009&month=12
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and this
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well obviously first base has more sluggers and is more deep than second base, but that doesn’t prove your point of roberts being more productive or valuable…it just proves theres less quality competition at second base.
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 4, 2009 8:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly you don't understand the point
production isn’t measured in a vacuum. Because there is always less quality offensive production at 2b, having a guy who can put up Roberts’ numbers at 2b makes him extremely valuable where a GM can find tons of guys who can put up LaRoche’s production at 1b, making him less valuable.
Brian McCann’s bat isn’t exactly Herculean when compared with all of the sluggers in baseball, but getting that kind of production at catcher makes him one of the most coveted players in baseball. Yunel’s bat isn’t really spectacular either, dozens of OFers and 1b can outhit him. But he is a SS, and getting production like his out of a SS makes him highly coveted.
Just because the production is relatively equal doesn’t mean you can ignore position scarcity. Therefore, a LaRoche for Roberts trade would have been a fleecing. To think otherwise is really naive.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 4, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i see where your coming from but alot of those guys you named better than laroche are either real early in their careers or streaky, such as branyan…laroche has had a consistent career and you know what your gonna get outta him…its pretty much guaranteed he’ll hit around .270 or .280 and hit 25-30 homers a year, and play great defense…if you look at his all around game, the fact he hardly ever gets injured, and his consistency, yes he is a top 15 1B…i guess we just view “value” differently
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 4, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But even so...
one is around the middle of the pack for their position, the other an All Star. An average slugger or one of the better leadoff men in baseball for the last 7 years?
I don’t think I’d term the deal a “fleecing” like say Jurrjens/Gorkys for Renteria. But it’s pretty easy to see which is the better, more valuable player. There is a reason teams have been trying to pry Roberts away for years, while LaRoche has been passed around like an STD.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 4, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i get yalls point and its a good one, but him calling it a fleecing and making laroche sound like a AAA’er or something is way outta line IMO
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 4, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is arguing Symantics
I would call it a fleecing for sure, but either way, you have to agree that it would be a bad deal on the part of the team that traded Roberts away (the Orioles).
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 4, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
robinson cano hit .320 with 25 hr’s and he’s not better?
zobrist hit .297 with 27 hr’s and he’s not better?
aaron hill .286 with 36 hr’s?
jose lopez .272 with 25 hr’s?
just think your holding roberts a little too highly but its whatever
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 4, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And I think you are focused WAY to much...
on HRs.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 4, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3 out of 4 of those guys had a better batting average too…homers is just an extra bonus..
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 4, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are under-valuing steals
Roberts steals lots of bases.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 4, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You were doing well, till you told him to ask Keith Law.
by Salty on Nov 4, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
first off you can’t compare ANY player to albert pujols. if you compare anyone to pujols, no one is a premium player.
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 3, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fine
Adam LaRoche to Texeira. Or Kendry Morales. Or Prince Fielder. Or any one of the 15 or so other 1b that are significantly better than he is.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn’t we have gotten Morales in the Tex deal if we wanted him and our scouts didn’t like him? Im really starting to question our scouts at this point. Thorman can play therefore we trade LaRoche he turns out he couldn’t play then they said they didn’t think Kendry Morales could play and decided on Kotchman instead. Im really startin to question our scouts a lil bit, i know you cant get them all right but wow those are 2 biggies right there…
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 3, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That may be true
I don’t recall, but Morales, as I do recall, wasn’t an ML ready 1b at the time (I could be wrong about that). Kotchman was. Maybe that was the reason, but again, I could be wrong.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 3, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well actually Angels knew they were gonna start Morales this season if they ended up losin Tex into FA. I think he was already in the majors off the bench last year if i recall. Im 98% sure that we could have had Morales, but at the time i would have rather had Kotch as well so not tryin to call our scouts shitty or nothin just sayin they said they didn’t really like Morales.
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 3, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why do people compare leadoff hitters to sluggers...
with those simple stats? If the big man has a good eye and decent average, it’s always in their favor. What about runs scored, steals?
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 3, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, what about HR’s in RBI’s? adam makes up for his low amount of runs scored and stolen bases by driving runs in…all im saying is larcoche is just as valuable compared to other 1B, as roberts is to other 2B
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 3, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse me?...
there is no reality in the rosterbation room. Fantasy only.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 29, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in that case i’ll take 8 clones of jason heyward and 5 of tommy hanson..
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 29, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and
25 of Albert Pujols.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 29, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
Pujols is pitching for you, too? Or you wanted to spread the wealth around the league?
by J-Freak on Oct 29, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, you don’t think Pujols can pitch? He just chooses not to. He knows it’s already unfair that he’s far and away the best position player, he doesn’t want to make everyone in the league feel like crap compared to him.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 29, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Albert Pujols can throw a 98mph fastball with 3 toes.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 29, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but can he locate it?
7/10/09-A New Dawn.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Oct 29, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's like
Asking if we need air to breathe.
He can locate it in the catcher’s mitt with you touching it fine, thank you.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Oct 30, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Wren tries to trade Lowe he’s going to have to realize that all we will be getting is salary relief. You’re not going to get anything else of value for him and it’s unlikely that a team is willing to take his entire salary.
It is possible that we do a salary swap with another team your not really getting anywhere doing that. Your still paying a lot of money to a player who isn’t going to be any better with your team.
As far as your teams go the Rockies, Brewers, and Pirates are all small market teams who would rather acquire 2 or 3 other players for $15 million then just one. The Dodgers need pitching but if they wanted him they would have just resigned him last year.
The team that comes to mind for him is the Cubs. With Harden being a free agent they might be willing to bring him in.
by jack dein on Oct 29, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the brewers offered something like $18 million/year for CC. Of course DL is no CC. The way you put it is probably right – they’d rather have a couple players. They also got out of the bidding for DL early or may never have been in on him. I’d probably call them mid-market, but whatever.
by Salty on Oct 29, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm
I think any team who misses out on Lackey would be very interested in D Lowe.
by Charmin519 on Oct 30, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They might. After Lackey the market turns to some pitchers who are on about the same level as Lowe and would probably cost less.
by jack dein on Nov 1, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the market this year is centered on high risk/high reward guys a la Harden and Bedard and then cheaper, yet equally risky guys like Justin Duscherser (sp?). Basically Lowe is one of very few available pitchers that is a lock to approach 200 innings
by McCann's the Man on Nov 1, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After Lackey the starters market drops off a lot. There are however some guys who are about as good as Lowe but will cost less. Lowe will turn 37 mid way through next season and failed to reach 200 innings this year.
Doug Davis made got to 203.1 innings last year while posting a 4.12 ERA. He has walk issues but probably won’t get more than $8 million a season. Even a guy like Jon Garland will draw more interest then Lowe simply because he will get less than 3 years $45 million. Theres plenty of middle rotation pitchers that are younger and will take less than what Lowe is making and put up about the same numbers.
by jack dein on Nov 1, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yankees are fickle...
their fans and their management. swisher is bombing in the playoffs and they could choose to shop his contract. plus, they will be in need of pitching considering they will probably not bring wang back. plus the sergio mitre experiment hasnt worked well.
lowe for swisher
we might have to add some cash, but his versatility would give 4 spots (first base and all 3 outfield positions) equal rest.
then sign nady for 2/10
bring back gonzo
use the remaining 8-10 million on a late-inning pitcher.
lineup would be above average. rotaton would be sick. bullpen would be sick. bench would be sick. defense would be adequate.
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
by ryan c on Oct 29, 2009 7:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wait
Swisher AND Nady? So our OF is going to be: Swisher, Nady, Diaz, McLouth, Church Heyward and Schafer?
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 29, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
swisher...
plays first. so does nady.
imo, church will not be with the team in april. schafer will most definitely not be with the team in april and probably not in 2010 at all. after his first failed experiment and surgery, why would he be? the outfield would be mclouth, diaz, heyward, nady, with swisher at first, and subbing at all outfield positions on any given day.
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
by ryan c on Oct 30, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
schafer will most definitely not be with the team in april and probably not in 2010 at all. after his first failed experiment and surgery, why would he be?
This just seems entirely dismissive of his ability. Unnecessarily so.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 30, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont get me wrong...
i really like jordan’s game. i just dont see him in atlanta for 2010, especially if we are competing.
jordan, from april 12 to april 29, hit .213. granted his obp was still up there, but the statement below is nt entirely inaccurate.
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
by ryan c on Oct 30, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jordan Schafer played just fine before we busted his wrist
Check his line in April:
.273avg .415obp .446slug .854ops 16BB/23K
That’s not too bad for a rookie, 21 year old CF.
It was belived that he hurt his wrist in late April/early May. Yeah, he sucked after the injury, but try catching up to a 95mph fastball with a busted wrist. He wasn’t striking out on many curve’s, changeups or sliders; it was mainly fastballs. A bad wrist is known to slow down bat speed thus not being able to catch up to a fastball. If Jordan’s wrist is 100% after the surgery, I have complete and total confidence in him in 2010.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Oct 30, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schafer was pretty much awful outside of the first week of the season.
by Lennox on Oct 30, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
Ha, I made a mistake above. This was his real line in April:
.273avg 405obp .607slug 1.012ops
yeah, that was pretty much awful. whata bust
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Oct 30, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.213/.383/.277 .660 OPS.
That’s Jordan Schafer’s April when you subtract the first 5 games of the season. Once you start adding in May games, the OBP quickly falls off a cliff too.
Like I said, awful outside of the first week.
And I don’t know where the heck you’re getting those April numbers from in this post, Baseball Reference and ESPN both have him with an 854 OPS for April.
by Lennox on Oct 30, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, don’t let facts get in the way or anything.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 30, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah what a bust this young guy is and what a bust Cameron Maybin is. And what a bust John Smoltz was and Tommy Glavine was when they made their debuts, oh wait nevermind how silly of me to have judged them over their first year in the majors cause last i checked those two are both gonna more than likely be in the hall of fame one day, so great overreaction…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if thats the same attitude Braves fans had about Glavine and Smoltz in their rookie years? hmmmm….
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, because posting accurate information about how a player performed is the same as calling him a bust and saying that he’ll never be good …
by Lennox on Oct 30, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My main point is give the guy time. A Rookie season does not make or break your career and seems like you are really down on the kid. Give him some time man.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve never said anything about a season making or breaking his career. I never called him a bust. That’s you trying to put words in my mouth. I’m simply stating the reality of the situation. Hell, I expect him to hit much better if he’s healthy, but the reality is that he was awful this season outside of one good week, what does anyone gain by pretending otherwise?
by Lennox on Oct 30, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats not the only comment i seen you make about him, just seems to me you dont really believe in him or somethin maybe im mistaken and if so then thats fine. No doubt he looked flat out awful about the time he got hurt.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 30, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m simply stating facts. I’m completely willing to give him a pass on his offense because of the wrist injury, that’s doesn’t change the fact that he had a good week to start the year and was pretty awful after that.
His defense, well, quite frankly, yes, it makes me quite concerned from what I’ve seen of it that he’s a RFer and not a CFer in the majors. He looked completely lost in the field at times and seemed to be screwing up on fundamental things that you wouldn’t expect from a guy who was reputed to be a great glove in the minors. There have certainly been players over the years who have had reputations as great defenders but ended up being average or worse out there. I mean, our own Nate McLouth won a GG, but many here would say that he’s not a great defender.
I’m sure that he’ll get more chances to show that he’s a good CFer, but he didn’t get off to a good start.
by Lennox on Oct 30, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
aight this is kinda irrelevant, but has anyone seen what this grant desme kid is doing in the AFL, he’s a CF in the A’s organization, check out his numbers…
.434 AVG
10 HR’s in 13 games
1.057 SLG%
1.565 OPS
holy shit
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 30, 2009 8:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Smoltz?
This of course depends on a few things. One, is he going to retire or go another year? Can we bring back both Soriano and Gonzalez? I don’t think we can, but if we bring one back then he can be our closer and Smoltz could be a decent middle relief/setup man. If he wants to. He might want to start. But if that’s the case, then we have no place on this team for him. Or would he even want to return to the Braves, even if he was fine with being a reliever?
No one can answer these things for sure, but I believe you can never have too much relief pitching. We saw this in just the third game of last season. That still haunts me to this day. If we could bring him back for one year and 1 or 2 million, I say go for it. He should be a dependable reliever for a year.
by scottyboy10 on Nov 1, 2009 1:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Smoltz...
those are two big questions—would he come back? I think he probably would if we offered a competitive deal. But would he close? I thought he liked the 5 day schedule of starting and didn’t like relieving because of the stress on the elbow from the unpredictable nature of the job.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 1, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Smoltz has publicly said he wants to return to St Louis. They prob have him in mind for a 4th starter spot, but I doubt he can swallow his pride and come back. still too soon
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Nov 2, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In Olney’s new blog he goes over players who may be non tendered. He and baseball executives came up with 93 players who they think are solid non tenders. He didn’t name many players but one that he did name was Bobby Jenks. He could be an option to fill our closer need, plus he wouldn’t cost any draft picks.
by jack dein on Nov 1, 2009 4:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i saw that too
not a bad idea, but I would definately think of him as a backup plan
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 1, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would try to resign Soriano or Gonzalez first but if that fails he could be a backup option. He made $5.6 million this season and if he gets nontendered its doubtful he would get that much on the open market, especially since there should be quite a few closers available this offseason.
by jack dein on Nov 1, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, i’ve read all the 1B rumors for us this season and i’d like to bring back laroche but idk if were gonna be able to…so with that said what does everyone think of carlos delgado?
i have been skeptical about this but it actually doesn’t sound to bad…there may be some injury concerns but that might allow him to come pretty cheap…he’s always played good D and would be great in the clubhouse..before his injury this season he looked to be hitting the ball very well, and no matter how old he is he still probably scares the hell outta pitchers..
but what do yall think?
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 2, 2009 9:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Is he healthy?...
and capable of playing in the field effectively? I suspect Delgado to go back to the AL, where he can platoon with a 1B every now and then while mostly DHing.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 2, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How does Troy Glaus get no love?...
he’s been a legit masher from the right side, and while not ideal contact numbers he does bash about 30+ HRs and .850 or so ops on average.
Bring him in, and you’ve got an order including…
McLouth
Prado
Chipper
Glaus
McCann
Esco
Heyward
Diaz
Maybe look to deal Lowe and a 2B for a true leadoff option there. But if healthy Chipper and Glaus would be pretty solid in the middle and you’ve got a strong back end with McCann, Esco, Diaz, and whoever the 3rd OF is (Schafer, Heyward, Church, etc). He wouldn’t be that expensive and maybe a couple million to sign with bonuses at say 100 games, 130 games, and then 150 games played. Glaus was healthy enough to end the year on St. Louis’ playoff roster, and I think would be a perfect fit for that lineup—a veteran, power right handed bat.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 2, 2009 10:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
well yeah i like glaus too if he’s healthy, but the number one concern for me is what the hell is chipper gonna do next year…is he gonna hit .360 like 2 years ago, or .260 like this year…if he puts up numbers like he did 2 years ago our “big bat” problem is pretty much solved and we can go after a cheaper player like luke scott or xavier nady, but if he hits .260 again then we need a jason bay or matt holliday to pick up the slack…we just cant have a number 3 hitter have another year like last
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 2, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The two players I'd look at most from the Cardinals...
and neither includes Holliday. For one, I doubt we’d go that high as he’ll likely get from elsewhere. Maybe if you can deal Lowe and McLouth for a stack of prospects, but I don’t think he’s really a good way to spend the money available. Mark Derosa is coming off surgery, and Troy Glaus had an injury lost 2009, so both can probably come in at a decent price. Both have multiple position versatility that fits in with the need of the club. I’d be looking hard at both Glaus and Mark Derosa to fill voids on the roster.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 2, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i just read on another blog and there were talks that glaus may have some trouble in the field regarding his ability to throw since his surgery, but who knows. i’d love to have derosa though…he could play the OF and 3B and give chipper alot more days off
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 2, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i was pimping this guy out like crazy a couple months ago, still my favorite plan B if LaRoche leaves. I mean Glaus just flat out hits. Adding him and Luke Scott (to platoon with Diaz in LF) as well as Heyward would give us a pretty damn good offense
by McCann's the Man on Nov 2, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Chicago Tribune seems to think that we might shop Vazquez this offseason. I would be willing to trade him if it landed us a solid hitter and a good 3B prospect. Otherwise it isn’t worth dealing your ace pitcher.
by jack dein on Nov 2, 2009 4:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
chicago also still thinks he’s no better than a ~4.5 ERA and is completely oblivious to the rest of the baseball world, trust me i live there
by McCann's the Man on Nov 2, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just passing the info along. I really don’t trust what newspapers say. They are just trying to get more money. Maybe its there way of saying they made a mistake in trading him.
by jack dein on Nov 2, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why the hell would a Chicago writer be talking about the Braves?
It’s not like DOB talks about a possible Derek Lee or Carlos Zambrano trade.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 2, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone gotten any word on when the Hudson deal is expected to be announced. Rosenthal said that it should be done late last week. Bowman said it would be done early this week.
by jack dein on Nov 3, 2009 6:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
if Ken Rosenthal said the sun would come up tomorrow morning, im not so sure i’d believe him.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 3, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Braves have to wait untill after the World Series to accept/Decline his option. I could be wrong though.
by blitzerlover on Nov 3, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does that matter though if they sign him to an extension or do they have to decline the option first.
by jack dein on Nov 3, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Either way
even if an extension has been agreed upon, the Braves FO has the class to wait till after the Series to make the announcement. Expect an announcement the day after.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 4, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about a Javy for Carl Crawford deal? I would dig that.
by Fischerking on Nov 4, 2009 9:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
hell yeah. resign laroche and get crawford and we’d be set..but crawford’s a free agent isn’t he? but that would instantly make us a better ball club in alot of ways, we’d have some speed in our lineup for once. (60 steals last year, thats unheard of for a braves fan!)
LF Crawford
CF McLouth
3B Chipper
1B LaRoche
C McCann
SS Escobar’
2B Prado
RF Diaz/Heyward
Jurrjens
Hanson
Hudson
Kawakami
Lowe
Medlen
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 4, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford has an option
I think it is for $10 million. The Rays are likely to pick it up and the shop him. Don’t know what they are looking for in return.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 4, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about Upton...
cheaper, younger, likely to require less in a trade, plus swings from the right side of the plate. I’d almost rather add him than Crawford, if just for the cost involved, let alone age and right handedness. Just thinking of a future lineup including
C-McCann
1B-Freeman
SS-Escobar
RF-Heyward
CF-Schafer
LF Upton
makes for a pretty good core to work with and keeps Esco from being lonely on the right.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 4, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
upton (im guessin BJ not justin, right?) had kind of a down year, crawford has been a little more consistent but i like em both
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 4, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and the down year should further reduce his cost...
below what it’d take to get Crawford and in salary. And yes, I meant BJ.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 4, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i wouldn’t mind BJ, i don’t see him repeating his year this year..so i’d be down with that..i have a feeling the rays would want a pretty good prospect in return though
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 6, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He had a pretty big down year
They wouldn’t have that much leverage with his arbitration looming.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 6, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays would be getting rid of those 2 for monetary reasons (Upton’s hitting arbitration and Crawford’s going to be a FA after 2010). Trading Lowe for either of them makes no sense to the Rays unless we pay a gigantic chunk of Lowe’s salary.
by FineHamAbounds on Nov 4, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at these lineups....
I’m starting to like Glaus more than LaRoche. if Glaus can handle the job well defensively, I just prefer his righty bat. Chipper is stronger from the left side historically, with lefties McLouth and McCann in there, Heyward, Freeman and Schafer eventually. We are just loaded with bats from the left side, and I think a righty either at the top or in the middle, makes too much sense. Other than Escobar, what do we got that does damage from the right side of the plate?
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 4, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I had an idea about a player that we could swap Lowe for. Francisco Cordero has 2 years and $24M left on his contract. He also has a option for $12M or a $1M buyout. If we paid the Reds $3M the first two years and then paid half of Lowe’s salary the third year. I think its a far swap. Cordero solves our closer issue. He has a lot of experience closing and we get rid of Lowe. I know everyone wants to trade Lowe and get rid of his entire salary but I just don’t think we will find any takers for him.
by jack dein on Nov 4, 2009 1:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would have a serious problem
with trading a starter for a reliever.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 4, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at this years free agent market and the economy of teams right now do you think Derek Lowe would get 3 years $45M on the market because I sure don’t. No team is going to take on his entire salary. We’re either going to have to give him to someone for nothing in return and still have to pay some or take another teams bad contract off their hands. Cordero is a player that the Reds don’t need. He is an expensive closer on a team that isn’t contending. Lowe would be a good fit in Cincinnati at a hitters park because he’s a ground ball pitcher. Cordero would allow us to offer arbitration to Soriano and Gonzalez but not really care if they resign because we’ll be getting the draft picks.
Cordero is one of the top closers in baseball and is getting paid like Lowe is getting paid to be an ace but isn’t anywhere close to it.
by jack dein on Nov 4, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really disagree on any one of those points
But Lowe could very easily bounce-back in 2010. At worst, he is a good lock for about 200 innings, and a lot of quality starts. Is he an ace anymore? Probably not. But IMO (and I will refrain from my normal tirade on why the closer role is ridiculous and the "save as a stat), bullpens are way to easy to build on the cheap. There are a lot of free agent “closer” types out there that can be had, so it is a buyer’s market. A solid starter like Lowe, even overpaid as he is, is much more valuable than any reliever, I might argue even Mo Rivera. I just don’t think it is a good policy to pay for saves, especially with starting pitching. The obvious exception being if the starting pitcher is clearly not going to make it like HoRam for Soriano, that was a good trade and I thought so at the time.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 4, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I get your point and agree that starters are more valuable than closers but you still have to have a good closer to win games. I really don’t think that Soriano will be back next year. Someone will pay him good money that the Braves can’t match. Gonzalez will probably be back but I just don’t trust him to be our closer. If he closes the entire year I see about 10 blown saves plus I think we’d have about the same record as this year.
I don’t think that any team will just take Lowe off our hands. This trade gives a quality player in return for a pitcher that would be backend anyway. I would rather trade Lowe then Kawakami.
Your point about being able to build cheap bullpens that work partly true, but if you look at the playoff teams this year only the Cardinals had a closer that came out of no where to close this year. Did a closer alone get these teams to the playoffs of course not but you need a consistent player closing games for you.
by jack dein on Nov 4, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cards closer didn’t look so good toward the end of the season. Cordero is really good.
by Salty on Nov 4, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
with this. The fact that the playoff teams mostly had “consistent closers” (if you really think Brad Lidge is one) has more to do with a prevailing attitude in baseball than any magic value of a “closer”. Before the modern save rule and the role of closer was established, baseball teams as a whole won games in “save” situations 96% of the time. Since the modern save rule, that 96% hasn’t changed. The only change has been this attitude that one needs a “closer”.
With this in mind, as well as the abundance of closer type arms on the market, I would rather see the Braves pick up a Billy Wagner or Fernando Rodney on the cheap than trade Derek Lowe for Cordero. Closers simply aren’t nearly valuable enough, they are thoroughly over-rated.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree in the sense that Closers are overrated but when a team has a Mariano Rivera as a closer that team and the other team knows its a Fantastic chance that the game is gonna be over when he comes in the game…
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 5, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
shut down relievers are nice to have, and Mo is probably the best of them. He is still less valuable IMO than a middle-of-the-rotation starter.
Flash back to 2007, the Seattle Mariners’ most recent year where they actually had a shot. JJ Putz was the best pitcher on that team according to the Mariners’ brass and the local media. Yet during that 14 game losing streak that basically destroyed their playoff hopes, how many times did he pitch? Twice. Why? Because there wasn’t a “save situation”.
As nice as it is to have Rivera, the Yankees would get by without him. Proven closers are really over-rated.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you severely underestimate Rivera worth to the Yanks but thats just my opinion though.
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 5, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After Wagner and Rodney are gone, the Braves or whoever should just sign a decent reliever? All I gotta say is enjoy.
I think the whole notion that people in baseball are mostly cretins and Keith Law or Rob Neyer should be in charge is daft.
by Salty on Nov 5, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine
you are entitled to that opinion, but I don’t see how that applies to the conversation about the closer role, or the need for a closer in the Atlanta pen…
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But it's true...
you can’t take any good reliever and put them in the closer’s role expecting success. It just doesn’t work that way. Some guys can do the job, some can’t. Some are Kerry Ligtenberg, while others are Dan Kolb.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 5, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I disagree
Any good reliever can close. Period. Dan Kolb wasn’t really a good reliever. Lightenberg was only so-so as is. There is NOTHING special about the closer role. Read the article. Any good reliever should be able to convert saves. Look at the Rays of 2008. Evidence is all over the place that it doesn’t take anything special to finish off an inning with a 3 run lead and nobody on the bases.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, SHOULD...
but reality shows otherwise. Some good relievers can do it, some can’t. Look at Joel Hanrahan now that he isn’t closing. See Kyle Farnsworth, among others. Some good relievers are just much more comfortable when it’s not the 9th, and their nerves show.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 5, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually
think that Farnsworth and Hanrahan are a better example for my point. Farnsworth was a fine closer for a year or so. He turned out to be a not-so-good reliever in general, which is a problem with most relievers. Finding one that is consistently good from year to year is not easy. But any reliever who fits that profile would make a fine closer. On any given year, any reliever who is finding success can be your closer. Manny Acosta had about 10 saves in 2008. He is hardly even an effective reliever, but he closed out games as well as Mo Rivera for a couple of months.
Again, I beg you to read the Caple article I reference below, really found it illustrative of my point. It isn’t that I am arguing that consistent, shut down relievers are not valuable. I would love Mo Rivera on the Braves. But “closers” are way way way overvalued, and this mystique that pitching with a 3 run lead in the ninth and shutting down the opponent is special is complete BS.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree some closers are overated but PLEASE dont compare a few months of Acosta to Rivera never ever say that again thats just crazy and i mean crazy crazy dont mention them two in the same sentence together.
“and this mystique that pitching with a 3 run lead in the ninth and shutting down the opponent is special is complete BS.”
But shutin the door down in a 1 run game in the ninth is the toughest to do and thats no BS about that…
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 5, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Again
I disagree. That is BS. Teams as a whole have won those games about 89% of the time for the past 100 years, and well before the invention of the modern save rule and the role of closer was invented. It has NEVER changed. Any good reliever can do it.
And my comment about Acosta was just to show that Acosta DID close games for about 2-3 months, and did so constantly. If the Braves had Mo Rivera in the same spot, it wouldn’t have made a lick of difference for those few months. That’s pretty much a fact. Now, if you asked me who I would rather have on the mound in those situations (or any situation), it would be Rivera hands down. But Acosta did the job.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To quote Caple from the article
People often talk about how pitchers need the proper mentality required to be a closer. While it is true that you must be able to let a blown save roll off your back, it is equally true that you need the proper mentality to be a starter so you can handle a bad start and the inability to do anything about it for another five days. All roles in baseball require you to handle adversity and failure. To single out the closer role as somehow more difficult only makes it seem more stressful than it should be.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Caple is just one point of view on this matter. There are plenty of people who think that closers are pretty important. Plus that article is 4 years old.
Closers are like kickers in football you don’t care about them until you need them at the end of the game.
by jack dein on Nov 5, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"closers"....
aren’t important. A save without context is a meaningless stat like W/L for a pitcher, batting average, and any number of stats. But good, reliable relievers certainly are important. It just happens that many guys who are good, reliable relievers become a closer. Not all, but many do, and that is the value. A good, reliable option from the bullpen on a nightly basis is something of great value, and many of the guys who fit that description are called a “closer”.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 5, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Again
never said good relievers aren’t important. Clearly you see my point on the save stat and the closer role. But the reason this came up is that there was discussion about trading for a reliever. My argument is that good relievers aren’t that incredibly difficult to find. Coming up with a guy to wear the “closer” badge isn’t horribly difficult, and paying a premium for one is unwise and unnecessary. The evidence backs me up on that.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually good relievers do seem difficult to acquire...
from year to year, you see plenty of guys pitch well, so in that sense it’s not difficult to get a good roll of the dice. But for consistent quality, 4, 5, 6 year runs of quality seasons, that is much more difficult to find that you seem to be saying.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 6, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"The evidence"
There is evidence on both sides. The idea that closing is the equivalent of wearing a badge for one of the relievers ignores a lot. You’ve got an article that says there isn’t any more pressure or stress to close games. I wonder if there is a single Braves pitcher who would agree with that.
I doubt it.
by Salty on Nov 6, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course not
because thats the way to make money. Becoming a closer comes with a bigger contract.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 6, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And
you haven’t cited any evidence that being a closer is any different.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 6, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed jack, i mean who you want in the 9th inning of a 1 run game in the WS game 7: Mariano Rivera or Manny Acosta or Kawakami or Medlen? I mean really a good closer is very important.
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 5, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said
that I wouldn’t prefer to have a shut down reliever like Mo Rivera over a shitty reliever like Acosta or even a good one like Medlen. Just saying that good relievers who can close are a dime a dozen, overpaid, over-valued, and under-utilized.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you guys are taking andy way out of context. Obviously no one is going to take anybody else over Mariano but would you rather pay a guy like Soriano ~7-8M or get a solid guy like Mike Wuertz, Brandon League, Peter Moylan, etc who have never closed but have proven to be effective relievers and pay them no more than roughly 2.5M per year? Personally I’ll take two or three of the solid relievers with no closing experience over the guy that has the higher career saves totals to go with two guys making league minimum
by McCann's the Man on Nov 5, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
Maybe I wasn’t being clear, but this is, in large part, much of my point.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 6, 2009 7:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Caple
just happens to reflect my point of view, you don’t have to agree. The evidence on the matter, however, statistically backs me up pretty well. Just look at the turnover rate for closers in general. Every year a new crop of guys come out that are shut-down closers for a year or two. Every once in a while one really sticks like a Mo Rivera or a Trevor Hoffman, but its not like closer types are hard to find or worth paying a premium for. They are just good relievers, many of whom happen to pitch the ninth.
Personally, I would rather use my best reliever to shut down the other team when, say, there are guys on 1st and 3rd in the 7th with the cleanup batter up with the lead on the line. This is the other important part of Caple’s article, that guys like Mo Rivera are good to have, but they are used in high leverage situations where they should be used in more dire situations… Maybe that happens to be the ninth, but saving your best reliever for a “save” when a dire situation comes up and using an inferior reliever is not smart baseball IMO…
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also
I don’t see why not. If Wagner and Rodney are unavailable or too expensive, find another decent reliever. Find your closer in ST. Kawakami, Medlen, Moylan, whoever else can audition for the job. I’d be perfectly comfortable with that…
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t just plug anyone into the closers role. We went through already after Smoltz moved back to starting with Reitsma, Wickman, and Kolb. Your argument above about how the save percentage hasn’t changed is partly do to the fact that starters aren’t going as deep into games now as they did 30 years ago. If you look 30 years ago the top starters in the game were going 300 innings now the top starters are happy to make to 200 innings. You must have a consistent bullpen to win games.
As far as the Putz thing goes you have to have good offense and starting pitching to. Its a team game. How many games would Hudson have won 3 years ago with a good bullpen or Jurrjens and Vazquez this year.
by jack dein on Nov 5, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont believe in the whole you can just plug anyone in as closer. Like jack dein said look what happened after Smoltz look what we endured without a closer it was brutal, maybe you dont remember lol. If it was that simple that anyone could close i dont think teams would pay the money they do for closers and be so important for teams to go out and get closers either FA or trade.
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 5, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But I think you're examples prove my point
Dan Kolb was acquired as a “proven” closer. Look how that turned out, he was really just a shitty reliever in general. Reitsma was an injury thing as I recall, but before his injury posted a perfectly respectable 15 saves and 3.93 ERA in 2005. I never said that good relievers were not valuable, but just that they are more common than people think.
And you prove my point again with Wickman. The guy was not a great pitcher by any stretch, but he was a perfectly decent closer for a number of years with the Indians and about a season with the Braves. His release had a lot more to do with his attitude than his performance.
Lets go back even further in Braves history. During their 14 year run, they used no less than 10 different “closers”. Among them was Kerry Lightenberg who was a rookie who had played independent league ball after being released. Greg McMicheal was a rookie who had been claimed off waivers. John Rocker was an 18th round draft pick (and, as it turned out, an asshole). John Smoltz was a multi-surgery survivor/converted starter.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here
a little reading for you both. Now, I know Jack Dein doesn’t like KLaw or Neyer, so I have no idea what you think of Jim Caple, but just read the article. It pretty much just re-affirmed what I felt all along about the closer role…
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/080805
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
than just go to ESPN.com and type in the search bar “the most overrated position in sports.” That Caple article should come up.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its because that 080805
part doesn’t want to stay part of the link, you can also try typing it into the URL bar….
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Dan Kolb wasn’t a “proven” closer not in my opinion. He only had 1 successful season with the Brewers and in the second half his ERA was 4 somethin with the Brewers that year so i didn’t consider him a proven closer. You know every great closer now was once a rookie and once was an unproven closer i know but all im sayin is some turns out to be good closers some dont. Some have a stretch of 3-5 good closing seasons then you never here from them again. But in a case like Rivera he is truly special he is one of the few that is just NOT overrated.
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 5, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Again
read the article, I think you may think differently. And Kold had 2 seasons with 20 or more saves as I recall, and was brought in and billed as a “proven closer.”
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kolb closed for 2 years with the Brewers when they were bad. 2003 they were 68-94 and 2004 they 67-94. Theres a big difference between closing for a team that isn’t going to the playoffs and closing for a contending team. Reitsma sucked and got the closer out of default more than anything else. He didn’t even last one season closing. Wickman was on the downside of his career when we got and was a short term fix anyway.
During that 14 year run we won exactly 1 WS. It didn’t all have to do with poor closers but it something to do with it.
by jack dein on Nov 5, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is there a difference?
Is a “save” situation not a save situation? He still did the job that every other “closer” does, and effectively. Thus, he was a closer, and, IMO, thoroughly over-rated.
Reitsman did the job for a while just fine. Wickman, in the upside of his career, was still nothing special.
There were a lot of things that went into the Braves only winning 1 WS in that 14 year run (I blame AOL-Time Warner for the latter part of that run). But for a couple of years the Braves closer, Smoltz, was the most dominant closer in the game, or at least among them. Wohlers, Rocker, Lightenberg, nothing wrong with using any of these guys as closers.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, good news
The Mets just said they would decline Putz’s option. There’s a good candidate.
Seriously, I would have no problem with a pullpen that had Wagner, Putz, Moylan, Medlen, KK (possibly), O’Flaherity and whoever else earns a spot in ST…. Cheap and effective.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 5, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
JON GARLAND IS NOW AVAILABLE
I repeat, Jon Garland is now available!!! I say we lock him up long-term and move Hanson to the bullpen.
Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.
by TradeAndruw on Nov 5, 2009 1:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
sarcasm?
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 6, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
?
Garland has 117 career wins. And winning is the only thing that matters.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Nov 7, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a decent player who will pull potential Lowe suitors away.
by jack dein on Nov 7, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The offseason has started and already 2 division rivals have made moves. The Mets decided not to pick up J.J. Putz’s option and the Marlins traded Jeremy Hermida to the Red Sox for 2 minor league players.
by jack dein on Nov 5, 2009 5:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not sure if it belongs here, but did anyone see the Brewers offer for Greinke?
Royals get: JJ Hardy, Mat Gamel and Manny Parra
Brewers get: Zack Greinke
Terrible offer.
by blitzerlover on Nov 5, 2009 8:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow that is a bad offer for Greinke. If he would have been on a decent team is a lock for the Cy Young this year. He’s relatively cheap signed at 3 years $34.25M. J.J. Hardy’s trade value is pretty low right now and the same goes for Manny Parra. Mat Gamel is a good prospect but he plays 3B and the Royals have Alex Gordon. I know he hasn’t been great or anything but they did spend a high 1st round pick on him not that long ago.
BTW where did you hear that.
by jack dein on Nov 5, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, where did you see that?
there’s nothing on MLBTR about it…and those guys catch everything.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 5, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
a lot of trade “rumors” are really just idle ramblings of some bad writer or blogger, not real rumors at all. If it isn’t on MLBTR, probably not worth pondering.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 6, 2009 7:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Defensively, I think gamel would be a DH in the AL...
and also in non-Braves news—Bobby Abreu resigned with the Angels.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 6, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That seemed like a lot of money for a guy who didn’t get much interest last year. I know he had a good year, and if he repeated those numbers the new deal will still be a bargain, but that just doesn’t seem likely.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 6, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A guy wrote an “article” on the dreaded Bleacher Report.
by Salty on Nov 6, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe if they throw in ryan braun
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 6, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
According the MLBTR the Twins have acquired J.J. Hardy from the Brewers for Carlos Gomez.
by jack dein on Nov 6, 2009 12:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
that seems like a bad trade for the Twins (IMO)
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 6, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
for the Twins?
I think it’s a bad deal for the Brewers. Hardy could easily rebound in 2010 while Gomez hasn’t figured out major league pitching in 3 seasons. They both play excellent defense tho.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 6, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was a first glance opinion
I think Gomez will figure it out, though. Remember, he is only 23, his 2 1/2 seasons started when he was just 20. This isn’t like, say, the Jeff Francoeur situation.
However, you are right. This is probably better for the Twins right now. Though I will add that the Brewers shed payroll, get rid of Hardy (who is already replaced), and fill the hole in CF that Cameron left. That’s a pretty slick move for the Brewers.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 7, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What would it take to get Billy Butler?
Would Medlen and Teheran be enough to get talks going?
by blitzerlover on Nov 6, 2009 9:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Butler is a good offensive player but he struggles on defense. He started a lot of games for Kansas City at 1st but that’s more because Mike Jacobs was worse on defense. He should stay in the AL where he can DH.
by jack dein on Nov 7, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about a Blockbuster?
Atlanta trades:
Kris Medlen
Jordan Schafer
Freddie Freeman
Craig Kimbrel
Other Piece or two
Atlanta Gets:
Adrian Gonzalez
Heath Bell
Solves two problems for a couple of years
by drumzalicious on Nov 8, 2009 2:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That might be enough. Gonzalez is signed very cheap for the 2 year, $4.75M in 2010 and a $5.5M team option in 2011. Bell is a underrated closer who is arb. eligible in 10/11 and only made $1.255M last year.
Now that they moved Blanks to the OF they would want Freeman, Kimbrel would step into their bullpen, Medlen could start or relieve and Schafer is still a solid prospect. They would probably want 1 of Delgado or Spruill to complete the deal.
by jack dein on Nov 8, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that looks pretty fair
but our minor leagues would be absolute shit after that trade. Once Heyward comes up, our top position prospect would be…. Adam Milligan? Cody Johnson? 18 year old Christian Bethancourt? Yikes. I guess we could trade one of our starters for some prospects..
This would be pretty tho:
Diaz – LF
McLouth – CF
Chipper – 3B
Gonzalez – 1B
BMac – C
Esco – SS
Heyward – RF
Prado – 2B
Nice.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 8, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im pretty sure
we offer arbitration to LaRoche and Soriano. Meaning that 4 top picks will be coming our way since those guys will most likely turn it down and we would essentially be able to draft and fill our minors right back up.
We would also still have our ridiculous pitching depth and who knows what we could get in that draft. we have the possibility of like 7 picks (2 each from Soriano, Gonzo, LaRoche and our original pick)
I personally wouldnt lose to much sleep. Only thing i would do if I were the Braves is look at trying to extend A-Gonz before he reaches FA.
by drumzalicious on Nov 8, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
another piece or two? i’m sorry but that is absolutley ridiculous IMO…why trade away 2 good young arms and two good young position players for some guys that we likely cant resign in a year or two…i wouldn’t do that even if i knew gonzo would hit 75 homers and bell would save 40 games..theres just too much potential with medlen, freeman, kimbrel and schafer
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 9, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't worry too much about it
That kind of a deal is very highly unlikely, as in not going to happen. But for the record, you are right that Gonzalez would command $18 million on the open market and that Bell will be overpriced as well once they hit FA. Mid-market teams like the Braves should avoid picking up marquee players like this (as in acquiring them, hopefully they can develop a couple) because:
a. in a trade they cost a lot in prospects
b. they eventually cost a ton of money
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 9, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Buster Olney has a new article up talking about where some ace pitchers could land. It requires an insider account. He and some rival executives seem to think that the only pitcher that will draw interest is Vazquez. He says that he has talked to scouts who think that the Braves wouldn’t get much in return for Lowe or Kawakami. He only names a few teams that could trade for a starter mentioning that the Brewers farm system is somewhat bare. He says the Rangers and Braves have the framework for a trade saying that a deal around Josh Hamilton or Nelson Cruz could be worked out. It would require Vazquez’s approval to go to Texas. He also mentions that the Dodgers could be interested in Vazquez but that they don’t match up well unless their willing to part with Kemp or Ethier.
This is what I’ve been thinking for a while now about Lowe and Kawakami. I’m sure the Braves could trade Lowe but how much money are they going to have to eat getting rid of him. Kawakami is a decent pitcher and isn’t that expensive but isn’t going to get that good of a return either. My hope is that if we trade Vazquez it gets us a good young hitter and a solid infield prospect. David O’Brien also mentioned that the Braves will explore trades this week.
by jack dein on Nov 8, 2009 6:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I think we should be trading Lowe as a salary dump and not be looking for anything serious in return.
Nelson Cruz would be interesting though . . . .
by drumzalicious on Nov 8, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Vaz is worth more than Cruz plain and simple…
braves#1
by rockybull on Nov 8, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would hope
that FW gets us something else to go along with Cruz if that did happen. In a dream world where Javy is worth tons we would get Chris Davis and Nelson Cruz
by drumzalicious on Nov 8, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really doubt Javy would approve a trade to Texas
why would he ask for a no-trade clause to teams in the AL/NL West and then approve a trade? why would he wanna go pitch in one of the most hitter friendly parks in baseball? why would he wanna go back to the AL after such a dominating one in the NL? Why would he want to leave the Braves, a team who could easily contend for a world series next year? Why would he want to leave Bobby Cox in his final season?
I would think there’s less than a 2% chance of Javy leaving us for Texas.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 8, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The reason for the no trade clause was to keep him closer to his family. Texas isn’t that far west but your right he probably wouldn’t approve a trade there.
by jack dein on Nov 8, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, he can’t get much closer to his family unless he wants to go play for the Marlins or Rays
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 8, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we trade with the Rangers I want Cruz over Hamilton. Cruz, Tommy Mendonca, and a reliever would do it for me.
by jack dein on Nov 8, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take Neftali Feliz as the reliever. Hey, he sounds familiar!
by ATLforlife on Nov 8, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mendonca
Awesome 3B, good LH power, takes his walks. Really needs to work on hitting breaking pitches. I doubt that we get that kind of package for Vaz—he’s only signed for one year and Cruz and Mendonca are under team control for 5 and 6 years, not to mention the relief pitcher. Oh, and then there are the myriad of problems the mvhsbball listed above. But still, a fan can dream, right? :-)
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Nov 9, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do the Winter Meetings start tomorrow?
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 8, 2009 8:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
GM Meetings Nov. 9-11
Owners Meetings Nov. 18-19
Winter Meetings Dec. 7-10
by jack dein on Nov 8, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
so obviously the GM Meetings are for GMs to meet up and the same goes for the Owners Meetings, but what’s diferent about the Winter Meetings? Do both GMs and Owners go? Is it just another meeting to vote on rule changes? I’ve always wondered about this
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 8, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Any idea when the Hudson deal will be announced?
by blitzerlover on Nov 8, 2009 8:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i would guess
sometime between tomorrow and Wednesday. sounds like Huddy has to undergo one final MRI to make sure his elbow is 100%. as long as everything works out, the deal is set to be announced.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 8, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Last I heard the MRI was scheduled for today so assuming everything went well it should be tomorrow. The holdup was finding a Dr. the insurance company would allow.
by jack dein on Nov 8, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mattnsrq@yahoo.com's deleted fanpost:
Alot of great possibilities this offseason
Tiny by mattnsrq@yahoo.com on Nov 8, 2009 6:57 PM PST Comment 3 comments, 3 new
I know this might sound crazy, but i like the idea of resigning Tim Hudson, that gives us 6 starting pitchers..But, i would like to see the Braves trade both Lowe and Kawakami. That would give us four good starters and would free up some money . That would allow us to resign Adam LaRoche and a Right Handed power hitting outfielder…With Prado now our everyday 2nd baseman, its time we trade Kelly Johnson and get something in return for him…I really was hoping to see him play up to his potential, because i do like him as a ball player, but its business….Id also like to see Soriano and Gonzo go and use Peter Moylan as our closer…There is alot of possibilities, but none of us really know whats going to happen, but hopefully it puts us back in the playoffs…….Im sure im going to get alot of grief for this, but i wouldnt mind seeing Bobby Cox go work in the front office and hire a new manager for the 2010 season.He was a great manager, but i think the Braves could benefit bringing in a new manager. Someone who can give them that extra spark and a different approach…….After getting spoiled for many years, i dont enjoy watching the playoffs without the Braves…I started following the Braves in 83 and been a fan ever since…Good luck to all and lets hope Wren can make some good off season moves…
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Seems like rosterbation, no?
by bbxxj on Nov 8, 2009 7:26 PM PST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
you say trade both Kawakami and Lowe, but you never mention who’d be a 5th starter. We can’t go with another Jo Jo Reyes at 5th like we did at the start of last season. I don’t think Moylan would be an effective closer for the whole season. Maybe he could close every once in awhile, but not as the Rivera/Papelbon guy. Maybe I’m wrong. What trade value does Kelly Johnson command?
Cox is already signed to manage the Braves next year. No head coaching changes in Cox’s fairwell year.
by Walker Wallace on Nov 8, 2009 7:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree bbxxj. This reeks of rosterbation.
by Walker Wallace on Nov 8, 2009 7:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 8, 2009 10:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey cb: Far be it from me to start being critical of editorial decision-making around here, but there seems to be a double standard in play.
Just the other day, there was a front page post entitled “Could J.J. Putz be an option for the Braves?” This was a rosterbation post if indeed there ever has been one.
So, its ok for gondee to post rosterbation, but regular users can’t? Or am I missing some fine distinction here?
by fandave on Nov 8, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's a good point
personally, i don’t give a shit where i read or post my rosterbation, but i can see what fandave is saying
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 8, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, I guess I get where you’re coming from, but the guy runs the site. He chooses what he wants to write about. He doesn’t consult me about it, unless it’s something he wants me to write. I just do a few stories here and there and it’s a fair amount of work, so I know he’s got a lot going on with running the whole deal, and I really don’t know what, if any, kind of compensation he gets for it. So, at least to me, if he wants to use the front page to rosterbate, in a very well thought out, logical way, more power to him.
As far as the fanposts, the prevailing feeling around this site for a good while now has been that rosterbatory fanposts, regardless of how well or poorly written they are, become annoying and clutter the site, so we’ve had the rosterbation thread going for a while now and, at least to me, it’s been working out well. If it’s not, everyone let me know, maybe we can try to figure something else out, because with the offseason starting up the rosterbation is just about to get nuts.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 8, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i like the rosterbation thread
if you look around at other SBNation sites, a ton of their fanposts are just trade proposals and people’s opinions on who to trade for.
And yeah, it is Gondeee’s site, so he gets to do whatever he pretty much wants
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 8, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing I would like is a new rosterbation thread about every week or so. That way you don’t have to sort through 300 comments.
by jack dein on Nov 8, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like it if everyone weren’t such chronic rosterbators…
If that’s something that you think should be done, please do it. We can go with the same thing, everyone just rec it so it stays at the top.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 8, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
once a week, or every other week...
the 300 comments gets lengthy, but the “z” thing to scroll through new thoughts has really helped me out there.
But definitely like the policy of a single rosterbation thread. If we didn’t keep this in one place, things would get pretty messy.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 9, 2009 8:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I was gonna go with every other week, but this one showed that by a week and a half it’s pretty lengthy.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Nov 9, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it always will though (get lengthy)...
we can’t help ourselves.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 9, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
fandave:
A. Gondee’s site, he makes the rules.
b. He doesn’t do that all that often.
c. I is really annoying when every fanpost is another rosterbation post, and half of them are ideas that were already posted the week before. Keeping one rosterbation fanpost was just a way of keeping the fanposts relatively clear.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 8, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well not everybody checks this site on a regular basis. It shouldln’t matter if they bring up a topic that has already been discussed? Don’t comment on it..its that simple
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 9, 2009 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But it isn't
because that post is still there taking up space. Not that there is a problem with rosterbating I guess (I try to refrain, but it is a perfectly natural thing…), but keeping it to generally 1 post keeps the threads generally clear.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 9, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the rosterbation central I'd think helps irregulars....
keeps them from having to sift through all sorts of junk and maybe some has scrolled too far down, instead of keeping it in one area so that’s all that’s really needed to be checked on the subject.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 9, 2009 8:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t disagree or even particularly care.
The world is full of double standards, and other injustices, large and small.
I was just sayin’.
by fandave on Nov 8, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is one of the stricter blogs out there and that has its disadvantages and advantages. I personally have no problem with the rosterbation thread. It keeps things neater and doesn’t clutter. If you check the site regularly there isn’t always something new to read. Another blog that I’m a member on has about 3 new fanposts a day and that gets a little old because most of the time there stupid.
by jack dein on Nov 8, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Question
How does arbitration work? I get the Type-A and B comp picks and all, but in terms of salary and what not… what occurs?
by ATLforlife on Nov 8, 2009 11:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
After your first 3 years of major league service you are eligible for arbitration unless you become a super 2. The 2 sides submit figures and if they can’t agree then it goes to a committee who will decide what the player gets paid. After the 1st arb. year the team’s figure has to be at least 80% of what the player made the year before.
It’s a system that’s not well liked by some people. I personally don’t like it but I can’t think of anything to replace it out side of a player becoming a free agent after 3 years of major league service.
Hope that helped.
by jack dein on Nov 8, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
How many years of arbitration are there normally if you don’t sign an extension?
by ATLforlife on Nov 9, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just to throw a name out there...
What about Vlad on a 2-yr deal? He can play RF until Heyward gets the call, then move over to LF. He’s still a helluva hitter, and while he’ll miss a few games to his knees, we have a perfectly capable backup in Diaz. In LF, he’d probably be average to above average, and he’s still got a cannon arm, so the defense wouldn’t be an issue.
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work to our advantage.
by FineHamAbounds on Nov 9, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, while a .794 OPS would have been great out of LF for the Braves in 2009, it’s still the kind of big impact bat we need. He hit as many homers as Garret Anderson while slugging 100 points below his career average. In fact, his slugging has decreased steadily for the last 6 seasons. And, he only played 2 games in the outfield last season after only playing 99 out there in 08. I just doubt he’s got the ability to play in the NL as an everyday player. And, given the kind of money a guy like him will want, it just doesn’t make much sense to take that risk.
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by cbwilk on Nov 9, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
the fact that the Braves really don’t need a veteran example that swings at virtually everything. There are very few guys (almost none really) who can be as good as Vlad has been and be uber successful with virtually no plate discipline.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 10, 2009 12:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NO.
Vlad cannot play the field…at all. If you thought GA was bad in left, just wait til you see Vlad.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 9, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
especially playing RIGHT field
Absolutely not.
by drumzalicious on Nov 10, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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