Jim Callis on Braves Prospects
by schaef888 on Oct 28, 2009 7:12 PM EDT
50 comments
Richie (SC)
Do you think that Craig Kimbrel will ever gain good enough control to be an effective major league pitcher?
Jim Callis
(2:29 PM)
Yes. With his mid-90s fastball and his slider, he just needs to get to "effectively wild" to get the job done in the majors. If he can do better than that, he has closer potential.
Tom (San Francisco, CA)
Should Freddie Freeman's performance thus far in the Arizona Fall League be a cause for concern?
Jim Callis
(2:30 PM)
I had a scout tell me he was disappointed in Freeman's bat speed and athleticism. But Freeman had wrist problems during the season, and it often takes a long time for a hitter to recover from that. I don't place a lot of stock in AFL performance and I'm not alarmed by Freeman's.
jim (virginia)
As a Braves fan I couldn't be more exicted about having one of the game's top prospects (if not the top prospect) in Jayson Heyward. But after him I worry about the depth of the farm system. How would you rate the overall strength of the farm as compared to other organizations?
Jim Callis
(2:38 PM)
I haven't lined up all the systems, but I was shocked at the Braves' lack of depth, considering they always seem to have a Top 10 system. But once you get past Heyward, Freeman, Teheran, Minor and Kimbrel, it falls off quickly. Particularly in terms of position players.
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Our minor leagues are pretty bad. Yes Heyward is good and should be a future all star, Freeman should be above average at 1st. But Minor projects as a number 3 starter. Teheran is still a long way from the majors and Kimbrel is a relief pitcher. We have no position players outside of Heyward and Freeman that have great potential.
by jack dein on Oct 28, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bethancourt
but the point doesn’t change much if you add him to Heyward and Freeman.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 28, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our minor leagues are pretty bad.
I couldn’t disagree with this statement more.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 28, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Why don’t you give a reason rather than just throw something out there.
by jack dein on Oct 29, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, when you start out with the top prospect in baseball (Heyward) and follow him up with the 11th best prospect (Freeman), you’re automatically negating the ability to call the system bad. Freeman would be the top prospect for all but six other teams. With that kind of star power at the top of the system, things already look good.
After that you’ve got Teheran and Spruill, who are both looking great in A ball and Minor, who might not be the star pitcher that so many want him to be (though he also might be) who seems pretty certain to become a number 3 in the Majors, which is nothing to sneeze at.
Then, you’ve got Bethancourt, who looks like he’s going to be a stud catcher, and Cody Johnson, who has more power than anybody in the Minor Leagues. You’ve got a future bullpen star in Kimbrel, and another guy who seems likely to become a solid, reliable reliever in Gearrin, and Hale and Pruneda who look like they could become great relievers as well. You’ve got two lefty starters in AA in Ortegano and Osuna who actually got better when they were moved up, and another in Diamond who pitched a lot better than his numbers. And then there are the young A ball arms, the Delgados, Hoover, Thompson, Oberholtzer, Crim, and Stovall, who have already had success and only look to get better.
Hicks looks like at worst he’ll be a great defensive shortstop who hits for pop and strikes out a lot, and there are plenty of those in the majors. If Milligan, Spanjer-Furstenburg, and Harrilchak are really as good as how they performed in their debuts, those are some great hitting prospects.
Oh yeah, and this is also the system that just churned out Tommy Hanson, who had an outstanding rookie season.
Saying the system is bad is just uniformed, and the fact that I had to spell out why is just dumb.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 29, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you're my hero, cb.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 29, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly
all of this is true, but Callis is also right in that this is a top-heavy system. Once Freeman and Heyward graduate to the majors, those other prospects are not as highly regarded and are unlikely to be for at least a while. I have to admit, I was pretty disappointed in this year’s draft. I hope the Braves are able to snag some solid talent next year and/or internationally, especially position players.
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 29, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But time can change things...
where were Heyward and Freeman on those lists going into last year? How about 18 months ago?
Basically, we can say our system lacks depth now, but may be singing a different tune in 12 months after the glut of unproven talents in A and rookie ball get another season under their belts. Could be better, could be worse, we’ll all just have to wait and see.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 29, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Tommy Hanson was not really on the radar as an ace-caliber pitching prospect until ’08 when he suddenly clicked and really pulled it together. That was when he shot up the ranks to “best minor league pitching prospect.”
by FineHamAbounds on Oct 29, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that time can change things (especially when we have young, high-ceiling guys) but Heyward has been highly regarded since before he was drafted. That one didn’t really come out of nowhere.
by sunking1056 on Oct 29, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was highly regarded...
but far from the “best prospect” in the minors as he is considered now. And that was the point, we have a handful of Ps in A and rookie ball, and a few position players that may or may not be able to make that jump in the next 12 months, from just highly regarded or high ceiling, to one of the top prospects in all of the minors.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 30, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but many forget how young our major league team will be when heyward and freeman are ready, that will leave plenty of time to replenish the system.
mccan, prado, escobar, freeman, heyward, JJ, hanson, medlen..thats a pretty good young core
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
by Hcgadawgs on Nov 2, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Theres no doubt that Heyward and Freeman should be good major league players. Minor should be a good 2 or 3 pitcher. After that however all of our top prospects are stuck in the low minors. They are at least 2 or 3 years away.
I love how fans always look at the highest projection for a prospect. These guys all have something they do well otherwise they wouldn’t be getting paid by a major league team. The fact is they also have a few flaws that will more than likely keep them out of the majors. Of those A-ball arms maybe 2 or 3 will make it above AA.
by jack dein on Oct 29, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That wasn’t your argument. Sure, any idiot knows that only a few of the guys I mentioned will actually pan out. You said the system was bad and I’m telling you that the sheer presence of two elite prospects negates that from being true. And then I added a ton of other players who look like decent prospects, if not the amazing ones that you want the system to be stacked with.
If you want to look at the system and see nothing but doom and gloom, feel free. I guess you’ll never be disappointed that way. You’ll also never be optimistic, but maybe that’s not a problem for you.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 29, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We better hope they offer arb to Gonzo and Soriano
And that someone else actually signs them. That would equate to four first/sandwich round picks in addition to our own first rounder. With that many early picks they could afford to draft a couple of the more risky, high-ceiling players instead of drafting “safely.”
by J-Freak on Oct 28, 2009 8:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why does everybody always leave Randall Delgado off the list of our top guys? Personally, I like him a lot better than Minor, just further away
by McCann's the Man on Oct 28, 2009 9:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think DiMaster is better.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 28, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? Better than Randall? Wow, i am really high on Randall.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 29, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They’re close; when I did my top 25 they were right next to each other, and I took DiMaster mostly cause he’s a lefty. He’s a year older, but he’s 20 and Randall is 19, so they were both the right age for Rome. Dimaster had a lower WHIP, and he had one fewer walk a game with the same amount of Ks. The K/BB numbers are in his favor too, with Dimaster getting 4.87 and Randall getting 2.99.
Like I said, it’s really close, and I like both, but I went with the lefty, cause they’re more rare. Even if he becomes a situational reliever, that’s still a valuable commodity. And this isn’t to demean Randall, just to make sure that when he gets mentioned, Dimaster gets some love too.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 29, 2009 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No real shock on the system being thin at this point. We’ve been trading away prospects for MLB players quite a bit over the last couple of years, sooner or later the system is going to need time to replenish.
by Lennox on Oct 28, 2009 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dont forget the Wildcard in Schafer. I know he isn’t technically a spec but will prolly start in AAA this year and has a chance to be a very special young player in ATL in the future.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 28, 2009 11:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There are always these kinds of lulls in good systems. It’s not so much that our system is barren as it is that many of our top prospects have graduated to the majors. Then you have players like Schafer, BJones, and Canizarez that have at the very least been and still can be useful major leaguers but won’t be prospects anymore.
I think it’ll just take some of our rookie level players moving up to see how good our system really is right now.
"If I had a little humility, I would be perfect" - Ted Turner
by Little Lady on Oct 28, 2009 11:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Jones and Canizarez are fine bench guys and spot starters but Schafer has a chance to be a star in CF for a long time or at least be a very good defensive starting CF with an ok bat good enough to start though.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 29, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
But my point was that we may not have 10 guys on Baseball America’s Top 100 list this year, that doesn’t mean our system is as bad as it may seem.
We can all hope Schafer pans out…I know I certainly do.
"If I had a little humility, I would be perfect" - Ted Turner
by Little Lady on Oct 29, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember what it looked like after the Tex trade?
In about one season, we restocked the system (or, at least, several young guys took their game to another level). But following the trade, there was a lot of talk about how we’d “gutted the system,” which was sort of true to an extent, but really, we just traded a few “names,” and had to wait for the next round of guys to step up.
by FineHamAbounds on Oct 29, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our system is not bad. There are many much worse. It is weak at the moment because evaluating the guys in rookie ball is a crap shoot at best. It is weak in position players. We seem to have a boatload of 4th OFers and utility type infielders at the higher levels. We do have several closer types with potential. There is a lot of speed at the lower levels with a couple who may develop. If Reyes and Rohorbough get it together and improve; and, Minor continues, we suddenly are much better with SP. If Milligan and Schafer play up to their talent and a couple of the Danville kids continue to improve, we go from weak to solid. It really doesn’t take much to change a system. Two or three guys blossom and you’ve got a top 10 system.
by braves99 on Oct 29, 2009 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t we just have the 3rd highest ranked system a few months ago? I don’t see a whole lot that has changed since then…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 29, 2009 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That was before Hanson, Medlen, and Schafer graduated and we traded Flowers, Gorkys, Locke, and Gilmore. The Braves system is still in the top half, maybe top third though
by sunking1056 on Oct 29, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its funny tho i think GOrkys, Locke and Gilmore were overrated and have now kinda fallen off the spec list.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 29, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To clarify… Flowers is really good, but who knows where he plays in the majors (most likely DH)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 29, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Negative. It was after the Flowers trade, after the Schafer promotion. The only difference is the Gorkys/Locke trade and Hanson/Medlen getting promoted. But even still, Locke and Gorkys weren’t really that great of prospects – at least, not to the extent that losing them would suddenly cause the organization to suddenly go from the 3rd best system to thin.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 29, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the article referenced. It is from March 2009 – Logan was looking to be our starting CF at the time, and only Hanson, Medlen, Gorkys and Locke have since departed.
http://www.talkingchop.com/2009/3/18/802860/braves-minor-league-system
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 29, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who he hell is Logan?
The only Logan I’m aware of is Boone, who is certainly not a CF…
by J-Freak on Oct 29, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Logan Schafer.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 29, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must have missed the boat somewhere… why are we calling him Logan?
by J-Freak on Oct 29, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Season opener
The brilliance that is Jon Miller and Joe Morgan, who are apparently illiterate and can’t read a guide program either, somehow kept pronouncing “Jordan Schafer” as “Logan Scavhour”
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Oct 29, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah.
Watched it on mute, b/c I can’t stand Joe Morgan. Missed that one. I got pretty confused though, as there is a Logan Schafer at AA ball in the Milwaukee system…
by J-Freak on Oct 29, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and he occasioanlly plays CF
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 30, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jordan Schafer was still considered a prospect (thus would be included in system rankings) until he amassed ML PAs. He didn’t stop being a prospect when he was named the starting center fielder. Schafer, Hanson, Medlen, Gorkys, and Locke were ALL in the Braves top 10 prospect lists from BA and Sickels. Graduating and trading HALF of your top 10 prospects will thin out your system a little bit. Not to mention Rohrbough had a down year, which certainly doesn’t help. That being said, a year from now this system could be much more highly regarded considering the upside of a number of arms (though Heyward will probably be ineligible).
by sunking1056 on Oct 29, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, at what point are players who were once highly regarded (Locke, Morton, Gorkys, etc) removed from the category of “Makes this system one of the best” to “Busts that really had no impact on the system”?
I look at where we were when this ranking was made, and I look now, and all I see is this: Hanson is in Atlanta, Medlen is in Atlanta. Players who have proven that they are not as good as we thought are gone (Theoretically making the system BETTER, not worse), Logan is STILL in the minors, we have drafted a guy who projects as a MLB #3 (certainly better that Locke or Morton could have been projected), we have seen the emergence of other guys with higher ceilings than Gorkys or Locke (all of whom are listed by cbwilk above).
I see nothing in our system that is worse right now, and certainly nothing that indicates that we have anything less than a stellar, better than average, stocked farm system that has produced and will continue to produce top MLB talent.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 30, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course we aren’t going to have a number one system, I mean look at all the prospects we churn out each year. There is bound to be lulls every now and then.
by eaheckman10 on Oct 30, 2009 8:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
New staff affect
The interesting part for me will come draft time. Had you asked me say 2 months ago I would have said I have no worries whatsoever with our little “lull” here. Just like the “lull” after the “trade that shall not be named anymore” we rebounded quite nicely. Now that our scouting and player development staff has been turned over I’m anxious to see how our draft strategy is affected.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
by scstrato on Oct 30, 2009 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Normally I would think the same thing
but I have to assume that the scouts etc. will have the same philosphy. I don’t think it will be too drastic a change. At least I hope not
by eaheckman10 on Oct 30, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his comments were justified
The lack of star potential at the AAA level is his justification….to have a great farm club system there would have to be possibly three players ready that there only reason for not being called up would be that there is somebody better in that position….right?
by bravestatoo on Oct 30, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Find me 3 farm systems in baseball that have that kind of depth. Heck, find me one.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 30, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong. players with true star potential at AAA are typically quite quickly moved up to the major league team unless it is already an elite championship level team.
by fandave on Oct 30, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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