Top 5 Best Braves Trades
by Dale Murphy for HOF on Oct 20, 2009 5:37 PM EDT
75 comments
Okay, so I stirred up a hornets' nest with my post on worst Braves trades...Maybe we can be more civilized with the post on the BEST Braves trades (Top 5 IMHO).
1. August 12, 1987
Traded Doyle Alexander to the Detroit Tigers. Received John Smoltz.
2. December 16, 2004
Traded Juan Cruz, Dan Meyer and Charles Thomas to the Oakland Athletics. Received Tim Hudson.
3. July 18, 1993
Traded Vince Moore, Donnie Elliott and Melvin Nieves to the San Diego Padres. Received Fred McGriff.
4. January 15, 2002
Traded Andrew Brown, Brian Jordan and Odalis Perez to the Los Angeles Dodgers. Received Gary Sheffield.
5. October 29, 2007
Traded Edgar Renteria to the Detroit Tigers. Received Gorkys Hernandez and Jair Jurrjens.
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- - Traded Jeff Francoeur for an actual living, breathing baseball player.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 20, 2009 7:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Holy shit
We absolutely murdered the A’s in that deal for Huddy.
Someone tell me again why Billy Bean is so highly regarded? Besides write a few boring books, what has he done?
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 20, 2009 8:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Turned the A’s into basement dwellers?
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Oct 20, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
thats the answer I was looking for.
Yeah, he mightve made a few good trades, but they havent been in the playoffs in quite a while…and they’re in a weak division.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 20, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They made it more recently than us...
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
by nick9314 on Oct 22, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wrote a book?
He makes good trades and is very good at scouting.
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Oct 20, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he makes such good trades and scouts well
why arent his teams better?
I know he’s in a smaller market, but the Twins and Rays don’t seem to have too much trouble even with a small payroll.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 20, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, to be fair
the Rays only very very recently got good. They had a very long bad slump.
Beane’s book is a model for how to successfully run a team, he just hasn’t been as successful as, say, theo epstein, our own JS and FW, and others.
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 22, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Notably
those GM’s had a bigger payroll, playing moneyball with money is pretty sick…
I give Beane a lot of credit.
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 22, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got Devine for Kotsay. Kotsay did what he needed to do with us and was fine for us and Cox never played Devine anyway im just pointin out he got Devine :) Oh and got one of the best position specs in baseball in Wallace for Holliday, sure he gave up Gonzalez, his closer/RP and another player but i think Wallace is the real deal for sure so nice deal on that part as well :)
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also got Dan Haren, Kiko Calero, and Daric Barton from the Cardinals for Mark Mulder.
by jack dein on Oct 20, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He took over a team that hadn’t finished over .500 in 6 years, and produced 8 straight winning teams, 5 of which made the playoffs, with a payroll that was often among the lowest in the game, while popularizing a different way of looking at and evaluating baseball players.
by Lennox on Oct 21, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
… and boom goes the dynamite.
by get swoll yunel on Oct 22, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will never love a role player the way I love Chucky T
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Oct 20, 2009 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
loved*
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Oct 20, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was awesome
Played at Western Carolina University in the town I grew up in and we were always rooting for him, even after he left.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Oct 20, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the interesting part here is that in these 5 trades, none of the prospects we sent panned out – although most were just as regarded as the prospects we lost in the trades mentioned in the other threads…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 20, 2009 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm….
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 20, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because how else do you judge a trade?...
If you don’t get what you wanted, but lost what could have been some very valuable pieces, that seems like a bad trade to me. When you get what you wanted, and the pieces you gave up turn to crap, that seems like it turnedn out pretty good. When you get what you wanted, and the pieces given up turn out strong, that seems like an even trade. Yeah, 20/20 hindsight and all, but how else can you judge a decision besides looking at the results from it?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 21, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we are getting hung up on the idea that one team has to “win” a trade and another “lose” the trade.
Re: Tex trade, we got exactly what we wanted – a power hitting first baseman that would help our offense. Texas got exactly what they wanted – a crop of prospects for the future.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 21, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess my point is, just because prospects pan out to be good players doesn’t mean a team “loses” a trade. It was a risk that the team was willing to make. 10 times out of 10, I bet the Braves make that deal. Tex was exactly what we needed at the time, and it was the right move at the time, regardless of what happens 2 or 3 years down the road.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 21, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree...
we wanted to make the playoffs, either in the trade season or the one after. We didn’t, and paid a pretty high premium just to miss the playoffs. And I never said there has to be a winner/loser in a trade, but they can turn out good or bad, or if you see above, even (when both teams get positive returns).
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 21, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We didn’t miss the playoffs because of Tex though. He gave us exactly what we were looking for – some positive (read: not sucking) production at 1B. He boosted our offense and had one of the hottest 5-ish months ever by a Braves 1B.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 21, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
The benefits of having Tex were outweighed by the injuries suffered by other key members of the team…
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Oct 21, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, be that as it may...
did we make the playoffs? It is a yes or no question.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 21, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possible responses that might frustrate Mr. Sanchez:
These all went through my head, as I did not want to say “no”.
1. We have in the past.
2. I disagree.
3. We??? I didn’t make the playoffs, did you or something?
4. Did the Dodgers make the playoffs?
5. I AM LORD VOLDEMORT is an anagram of TOM MARVALE RIDDLE.
6. Yes we can.
7. No comprende English.
8. What does that have to do with the price of candy in China?
9. Is it?
10. Maybe.
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Oct 21, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude ur gonna get me in trouble… im reading this while in property law and almost burst out laughing
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 21, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
touche...
point is, the reason why we missed is irrelevant. The goal was to make the playoffs, and it failed. It may not have been because of Tex, but Tex wasn’t enough to overcome those defincies either. I’ve never said he didn’t play well (except for the first two months of 08, and then he was good, just not the needed power). But in my opinion, you pay a price like the one paid for Tex for one reason only, to win a i World Series. Things happen in the playoffs, but when a move is made giving up that many top prospects (yeah they were young, but Harrison and Feliz were among the best Ps and Salty/Andrus the top 2 position players in the system), it is playoffs or bust. And that one went bust, bad.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 21, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. The goal of getting Mark Tex was to not have Scott Thorman manning 1B anymore.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 21, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then that was a pretty hefty price to pay...
you don’t need to give up 4 of your best prospects just to “not have Scott Thorman manning 1B anymore”. IMO, and feel free to disagree as you obviously do, but you pay the price paid for Tex for one thing—a chance at the World Series. To have that chance you have to at least make the post season, and therefore….
.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 22, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Justin, there you go again, argumentively arguing just for sport.
Obviously, it was a high risk, win-now, playoffs or bust trade. Rationally, the FO had to know that re-signing Tex to a long term deal was a less than 50/50 and we were gutting our farm system.
Either prospectively or retrospectively, one could say it was a smart, bold, reasonable and/or necessary move because the team had at least somewhat of a legit shot at the playoffs and we needed to grab the brass ring; or one could have the contrary point of view.
However, these are matters of pure opinion and, therefore, you do not get to be proclaimed the “winner”, no matter what what side you choose to argue.
by fandave on Oct 23, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn. I guess there goes my chance at the “Most arguments won” award.
Too bad things I say make sense though, otherwise, you might have a point that I argue just for fun.
Or you could just stay out of it and mind your own business.
Mr. Sanchez and I are having a perfectly civil discussion. There is no reason for your comment.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 23, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhh i found your new sig.
“Justin, there you go again, argumentively arguing just for sport.”
That fits.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 23, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
btw… im not bein a prick or nothin that just looks like it fits and i like that hahahha.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 23, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to give yourself a big bat on the back for being so sensical.
To me, it is nonsensical to suggest Tex was acquired for 4 top prospects in order to replace Thorman.
by fandave on Oct 23, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember when we nearly traded Druw for Ervin Santana and Nick Adenhart
Oh how nice that wouldve been
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Oct 20, 2009 8:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
r.i.p Nick
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 20, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Hudson trade is what happens when everyone knows you have to trade players. The A’s had to get rid of payroll. Cruz was a good reliever and everybody knew that Thomas wasn’t going to put up those numbers over a full season. Meyer was the only prospect in that trade and his ceiling wasn’t as high as what Hudson already was.
by jack dein on Oct 20, 2009 9:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kinda like when we traded Tex to the Halos.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 20, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and got back a stop gap 1B,...
and some scrub minor league lefty reliever. I repeat that the Braves could have probably gotten more if they just let Tex walk for the draft picks.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 21, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well with the way we drafted the first pick that we had i dont know what we would have taken prolly 2nd round material and tried to pay him like that. Still DeVall the guy we got for the comp pick for Mahay may end up bein very good so we need to wait and see. We just seemed to draft for cheapest players as possible it seemed so im not sure if we would have made that comp pick count for much, at least DeVall was a highly touted high school lefty.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 21, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the picks (for Tex) would have been in this recent draft...
so I guess those who are up on such things can look and say who we likely would have wanted at the spots when they came up to join Mike Minor.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 21, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know the picks would have been in the recent draft thats why i said what i said. My point was it seemed like we took lesser talent in the draft. Who knows we could have taken lesser talent than DuVall is thats what im talkin about.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 21, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or we could have risked taking one of those ...
“high upside” kids everyone was crowing about when we selected Minor, and tried our hand with both the sure thing, and a potential star. I’d also have expected the best HS SS available to be one of the two selections to help with the current 2B/SS/3B problem in the minors.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 22, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You dont know this though. Throughout the entire draft led people scratchin their heads what we were doin. So in my opinion i would see another player bein picked by us that is mainly for signability reasons. I mean we only had 1 first round pick so both combined would have prolly been around $3.5 million+ at least. Dont you think if we wanted to shed out that much dough that we would have went after one of the better higher potential pitchers instead of Minor??? I think so, but hey this is just my opinion though.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 22, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are some damn good trades...
but the best one I can think of, wasn’t it Kerry Ligtenberg for a case of balls and some bats? All he did was give us 5 years of great relief work and a 3.04 ERA in his time as a Brave.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 21, 2009 9:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Man, I loved that dudes sideburns. I’m 29 and still can’t grow much facial hair. F*ck I’m jealous.
by Sparhawk on Oct 21, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People also forget that along with the sweet burns he rocked a pretty kick-ass mullet.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 21, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kerry Ligtenberg is one of the best...
relievers we had at the time. McMichael was solid, Wohlers and Rocker had their dominant years but they also flamed out. Ligtenberg was consistently solid. In the 8th, in the 9th, he just got the job done. Helluva pickup.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 22, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Clontz
nuff said
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Oct 22, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe one of the greatest trades ever.
by fandave on Oct 23, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohman and Infante for Ascanio
hindsight is 20-13 just like Ted William actual vision- ken tremendous
by heapofoatmeal on Oct 21, 2009 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the Soriano trade worked out really well for us.
Horacio Ramirez for Rafael Soriano…straight up fleecing right there!
This is another good one:
Atlanta Braves traded Adam Laroche and Jamie Romak to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Mike Gonzalez and Brent Lillibridge.
We now have LaRoche back, so this trade boiled down to Jamie Romak for Gonzo and Lillibridge. We then traded Brent and others for Vaz…so we netted LaRoche (didn’t lose him in the grand scheme of things), Vaz and Gonzo for Lillibridge, Flowers, Romak, Kotch and a couple of teenage prospects…not bad at all!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 21, 2009 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But we did lose him...
losing him led to the Thorman/Wilson debacle, therefore Tex. In the grand scheme of things, dealing LaRoche certainly had an impact.
Although Soriano for Ramirez certainly turned out to be a big winner. ;)
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 21, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good points
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Oct 21, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn’t we get infante in the renteria deal too?
by JKowalek on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no, gorkys hernandez and jair were the return on the renteria trade.
hindsight is 20-13 just like Ted William actual vision- ken tremendous
by heapofoatmeal on Oct 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wanted to do it, but decided not too
thought it would result in extreme anger and yelling
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 21, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the
Deals for JJ and Shef in particular.
One that was really one-sided was the Horacio Ramirez for Rafael Soriano deal a few years back.
by RaffyGonzo on Oct 21, 2009 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not I
The JJ trade was indeed sweet, but the Shef trade we did give up 2 quality players so I don’t consider that completely one-sided. (Definetly in our favor tho!) The trade I liked ALOT and seems no one mentioned in comments was the McGriff trade. I would but that as #2 behind Smoltz. McGriff was a beast at a time when we needed offense bad. Also, he was relatively cheap for that type of player and none of the players we gave up panned out.
by Trek on Oct 22, 2009 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McGriff was a big time difference maker,...
and set the team on fire! (sorry, someone had to do it). Nieves was a big time prospect, but none of those 3 ever became much or even an everyday player. Considering what he brought to the team, that might need to be #1.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 22, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smolz is a sure 1st ballot HOFer who almost spent his entire career with the team. It is the clear No. 1 on the list
by fandave on Oct 23, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
until last year that is
remember? He isn’t a Brave anymore…
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 23, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but comparatively...
Doyle Alexander was pretty good and the Tigers got what they bargained for. Ultimately, the Padres got ripped off.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 23, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make a good point
But Smoltz was damn excellent, one of the best pitchers any of us have ever seen. 14 division championships and a world series later…
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 23, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but he was a prospect when we traded for him… it was a perfect deal… the player traded for (doyle) did his job and was outstanding for the stretch run… and the prospect turned out
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 23, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, absolutely
it wasn’t a fleece by any means. But Smoltz’s career with Atlanta will go down as some of the best pitching ever. It’s one thing when a prospect “turns out”, its quite another when that prospect turns out like John Smoltz did.
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 24, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You missed this one...:
The Renteria-Marte trade. Marte still hasn’t panned out, and Renteria was great for us…
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 22, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To clarify
not top 5 material maybe, but certainly deserves mention…
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 22, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say top 5 material cause without Renteria we dont get our hands on JJ and Gorkys. Then flipplin Gorkys and a few others for McLouth. Thats top 5 for sure good call man.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 22, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point...
baseballreference says the deal was for Renteria and cash too, so in addition to the cash, the ultimately got 2 strong seasons of Renteria, and who knows how long of Jair Jurrjens and Nate McLouth for Andy Marte, Jeff Locke, and Charlie Morton.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 22, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at it that way
That trade was certainly a great trade and a lynchpin for Braves success in the future.
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 23, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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