October rosterbation...
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 13, 2009 9:53 AM EDT
273 comments
the joys of a bunch of grown men, sitting in front of a computer rosterbating.
With the previous rosterbation getting so lengthy, it seemed time for a new one to clean up the mess.
For easy access, currently on the payroll for next year---
C-Brian McCann, David Ross, Clint Sammons
2B-Kelly Johnson, Martin Prado
3B-Chipper Jones, Brooks Conrad
SS-Yunel Escobar, Omar Infante, Diory Hernandez
OF-Nate McLouth, Ryan Church, Matt Diaz, Gregor Blanco, Reid Gorecki, Brandon Jones, Jordan Schafer
SP-Derek Lowe, Javy Vasquez, Kenshin Kawakami, Jair Jurrjens, Tommy Hanson, Jojo Reyes, Todd Redmond, James Parr, Tim Hudson(mutual option?)
RP-Boone Logan, Jorge Campillo, Manny Acosta, Peter Moylan, Kris Medlen, Eric O'Flaherty, Luis Valdez, Stephen Marek
and then there's guys like OF Jason Heyward and RP Craig Kimbrel among others not on the 40 man who may well be on the 25 man come opening day
Let the circle jerk begin.
5 recs |
273 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Shin-Soo Choo, opinions? Answer to our problems or not what we need?
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My computer froze up on one of the multiple reply failures.
Very embarrassing.
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he even an option?...
Cleveland really needs pitching, especially starting pitching. But would they want to give up on Choo, who’s still pretty young both in service time, and probably is a nice seller for some marketing and jersey sales?
But let’s say the Indians do want to move him, he’d likely cost a good bit. He also hits lefty, when we need a right handed bat and have more than enough young lefties with Schafer, Freeman, McCann and Heyward. Then you still have the question of his military service.
Excerpt from…http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=070000&biid=2009082513968
Dong-A: You might still have to serve your mandatory military service as a Korean male. Is the Asian Games next year your last chance to get a draft exemption?
Choo: That’s a very tricky issue I’ve been discussing with the team, but I’ve not received any confirmation. I want to play in the Asian Games but I’d need permission from my current team.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 13, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't he being shipped away for military duty next year?
I don’t think he even has a say so in the matter. It’s required by the Korean government and he hasn’t filled that obligation at this time.
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 11:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
See below as I failed at the the reply.
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I read something about it was still undecided, but if we were to get him i would want all that to be cleared up 100%
but he’s an awesome player, .300 hitter, 20+ homers, can steal bases, i think he’d definately be useful
McLouth
Prado/Kelly
Choo
Chip
Mac
Laroche
Yunel
Heyward
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's an extremely lefty heavy lineup.
I don’t think he’s a fit, or we’d be willing to part with the young pitching to bring him here.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 13, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a thought
we all know that Wren has balls and might drop a big bomb on us.
Which of these would surprise you the least, even though they both would be awesome:
trading for Adrian Gonzalez or trading for Prince Fielder?
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Oct 13, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the least?...
Fielder. I can see the Brewers taking a current starter in a package (like Lowe or KK or JV) easier than I can see the Braves giving up the prospects it’d take to get Gonzalez.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 13, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Picturing Prince in a Braves uniform gets my hopes up way too high
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Oct 15, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't say it was likely,...
just compared to trading for adrian gonzalez. so basically slim vs. none.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 15, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 15, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I'd like to see.......
1 Let Soriano Walk
2 Sign Gonzo for 2 years 10 Million with mutual option for third year
3 Sign Willingham with any of the following:KJ, Church, Reyes, Redmond, Gorecki, B Jones, Acosta, Loogan, and of course some of our not top tier but good prospects that we don’t have immediate plans for.
4 Non Tender-church if he’s not included in trade.
5 Laroche walks unless he takes a 3 year 21 mil deal. Don’t think it happens so he walks and you offer him ARB.
6 Sign Orlando Hudson for 2 years at no more than 8 per year whether its straight up salary or with incentives.
7 Non tender KJ if you sign Hudson and can’t trade him. If you don’t pick up Orlando you keep KJ and you offer the difference in salary to Laroche.
Hudson-2B 8 mil
Escobar SS- 750k
Chipper 3B-13 mil
McCann-C 5.5 mil
Willingham LF- 4 mil
McLouth CF 4.5 Mil
Canizares 1B-400k
Schafer/Gorecki/Diaz RF-400k (See Below for Diaz)
Lowe- 15 Mil
Vazquez-11.5 Mil
JJ-1 Mil
Hanson-400k
Kawakami-8 Mil
Ross-1.6 mil
Prado-750k
Diaz- 1.7 Mil
Infante-2.3
2 Million for whatever bench player we feel is the greatest need. Via free agency.
Gonzo- 5mil
Medlen-400k
Moylan-750k
O flat-500k
Fill in the rest with what wasn’t traded for Willingham or minor leagues or picking up someone that was let go like O Flat last year. No more than 4 mil for three arms.
25 Man Roster is in the 90-93 million range depending on how we form our pen and our last bench spot.
We pick up our power bat in LF, we pick up a true lead off, we pick up speed, we lose some defense in the OF until Heyward and Schafer are called up. Your pen is not as strong but who honestly thought we would have a Soriano and Gonzo pen again this year?
You could also pick up Huddy’s option if you can pawn off Kawakami to someone. Or if Huddy is willing to take the home town discount he might do a 3 year 18 million contract. 2010 at 5 mil, 2011, 6 mil, 2012 7 mil? The braves don’t have to do much to be a serious competitor next year.
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Huddy just built a home in Atlanta and has publicly said that he like ATL alot.
I realize the above home town discount is extremely cheap. Maybe he doesn’t accept that but he excepts a contract that is fat in the last year and keeps us under 96-98 million this year? All the numbers above could change here and there but the basic total budget won’t go over this years budget with what I outlined above. Huddy really doesn’t fit in my plan above unless we trade Kawakami or D lowe. That part at the end was just another possible scenario depending on what Huddy wants to do.
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that solves nothing..by losing laroche and bringing in willingham we don’t have that extra bat we need…Canizares for a full year at first would be HORRIBLE
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not sign laroche…and have Diaz/McLouth/Heyward or Diaz/McLouth/Church…thats ALOT better production
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
willingham vs. diaz
Diaz
371 ABs- 13 HR- .313. AVG- .878 OPS
Willingham
427 ABs- 24 HR- .260 AVG- .863 OPS
diaz is already putting up better numbers in every category except HR’s and that would come with a full season..
having Diaz on the bench and paying Willingham to do the same thing (if not worse) would be just a complete waste of money and talent.
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please also notice that Diaz was an Option for RF.....
Along with the acquisition of Willingham for LF. So basically, when we DONT RESIGN LAROCHE BECAUSE HE’S GOING TO WANT A MULTI YEAR EXPENSIVE CONTRACT, we will be without a power bat and we will solely rely on Diaz and Heyward being rookie of the year? You can’t bank on Laroche taking a discount to stay around with his buddy Chipper.
Heyward ain’t playing in the majors until June unless we have to have him there.
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why won't laroche sign?
he loves atlanta and playing w/ chipper
by BravesRaleigh on Oct 14, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It comes down to if we want to sign him to a multi year deal with Freeman more than likely ready by ST 2011 and also comes down to LaRoche is the best 1B on the FA market and all it takes is just 1 GM and 1 owner to overpay for this guy and who is to blame him for goin for more money? Not me thats for sure.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because someone...
might decide to offer more than 3 years guaranteed. Would the Braves?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 15, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't that basically be the same team?
Hasn’t everyone said that we need a RH power bat? So how does keeping the exact team change that? Plus you want to be real careful with Laroche as this is his first free agency stint. He is going to want his pay day and multi year contract. So he’s going to be in Freemans way. Freeman is an absolute worst care scenario 2012 starter. So even thought Laroche is a nice bat he will probably ask for too many years and want more money that we can spend. Unless we move Lowe
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not exactly, we woulda been in the playoffs with a full season of laroche, and a full season with diaz and not francouer…our second half lineup was playoff caliber…
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and yes we need a right-handed power bat..but willingham is not much of, if at all, and upgrade from a full season of matty…
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who will be our power bat if Laroche walks????
Who fills that void?
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heyward’s time is now, he’s proven that, he’ll get his shot and i think he’ll be a solid RF’er, im not saying he’ll be an immediate star but he’ll get the job done. and if Laroche walks, we have several options whtere via trade or free agency…and what the hell do you expect to do when Heyward is ready in June…you want to pay Willingham and Diaz for the rest of the season just because Heyward wont be up until June? if thats the case just have Diaz/Nate/Church!
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOUR OFF BASE......
Paying Willingham, McLouth, Diaz, and Heyward
vs.
Paying Church, McLouth, Diaz, and Heyward
Big difference there buddy!!! What a million dollars? Plus if Laroche walks Willingham basically replaces his bat.
Willingham
427 ABs- 24 HR- .260 AVG- .863 OPS
Laroche
555ABs- 25 HR-.274 AVG- .843 OPS
Name your Laroche replacement options that are realistic and don’t involve a fielder or gonzo trade!!!!!!!!!! Also make sure you think about how much that option will cost and if they will block freeman or even fit in the budget. Also make sure that player is equal or better in production. Also, try to make it a righty if possible as it’s public knowledge and in print that a RH batter is a priority this offseason.
HEYWARD is ready but your already giving him the rookie of the year and he could struggle. Don’t assume he is going to be great. My scenario fits in our budget accounts for the loss of Laroche bat, adds RH bat, gives us a lead off, gives us more speed, allows Heyward to develop and doesn’t throw him into the fire, keeps Heywards ARB clock starting immediately, gives us serious trading chips at mid season, etc……..
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just said i didnt say he was gonna be rookie of the year? i said he’d be pretty solid. and your forgetting that josh willingham is not a free agent…so why give up some prospects or whatever it would take via trade…when you can have heyward, church, diaz, nate…i really doubt they’ll give you willingham without some solid prospects..and there’s several other 1B to go after…hank blalock, nick johnson, and several others that could be a stop-gap for freeman..
quit getting defensive. damn.
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t see our team being better with your example. You don’t account for Laroche leaving, Church’s non power production, or the possibility that Heyward will not hit 25 HR’s his first year.
I also realize Willingham would cost prospects but the Nats need a 2B, Pitching, Bullpen, Defense, and prospects. We match up with the Nats to do a trade. I also like that we can choose between Diaz, McLouth, and Willingham at the end of 2010. 2011 you have Heyward, Schafer, and we choose who we want out of the above!! I think we just set ourselves up for a stud OF through 2014 if we go this route. I think it makes us extremely better next year without giving anything up but some prospects in which the braves are known to trade every year.
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, so we both agree Heyward will be in RF by June. So that leaves Nate in CF. and IMO Diaz in LF would be just as good as Willingham (though his power numbers may be lesser, he’ll make up for it in AVG and OPS). I think most agree Diaz deserves to start and with that I think he could up almost 20, if not 20 homers..with keeping church,diaz,mclouth,heyward, that leaves more money to sign laroche or whooever (though not a whole lot) than if we were to give up prospects and get willingham. it just seems unneccesary. especially when we could get hank blalock, though he had a down year, could put up willingham type numbers..
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see your point...... I just think it will be easier to find power in the OF as oppose to 1B production.
I also would rather be stacked with OF than with an iffy 1B and Heyward needing to seriously hold his own in the first year. I think he can do it but I wouldn’t bet my season on him quite yet.
If we can resign Laroche then I’ll concede that keeping Diaz/Church/McLouth would make sense. However, my whole scenario was based on him walking which I pointed out in my #5 bullet in the original post.
Blalock is a Lefty
Blalock hasn’t consistently hit 20+ HR’s since 2003-2005
Blalock is a 6 Mil plus a year guy
Blalock best year was Willham’s career average.
Just pointing out that 1B production is pretty slim pickings this year on the free agent market as Blalock is one of the best available this offseason.
I see your point and approach you would like to see happen but it relies entirely on the best 1B free agent this offseason resigning with the braves which have a top 1B prospect very close to his MLB debut. When Laroche goes then the need for an immediate power bat on opening day becomes #1 priority no matter what position it comes form.
Uggla isn’t a bad choice either I just decided on Willingham because we match up with the Nats via trade. KJ is a legit 2B that had a bad year and the Nats need one bad. They need veteran starting pitching and we have it. They need better defense and Church makes their OF defense pretty legit across the board. We have so many options to show them that I felt Willingham would be a plausible pick up that would fit our needs for this year and beyond. Having Diaz, McLouth, Willingham, Heyward, and Schafer is a pretty good problem to have if you ask me.
If we needed a bullpen arm or situation guy or a 3B prospect at the trade deadline (next July) we have serious fire power to make it happen. If Heyward stumbles we have a backup. If Heyward is holding his own then send Willingham to 1B? he’s the backup 1B for the Nats!
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wasn’t aware Willingham could play first, but that would be something to seriously look into…
and by 2011 (maybe earlier) i think the FO plans (if everything works out) for the OF to be McLouth/Schafer/Heyward..but hell if willingham can play a good first then i see your point…i just dont like the idea of that logjam in the OF which would require one of those guys to sit, and have Canizares at first
but i’ve been on the dan uggla band wagon from day 1..and that would allow us to have Prado at first or maybe a willingham
but i figure wren is gonna pull something off that surprises us all so who knows
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Willingham is also horrendous defensively no matter where you stick him. His offense, which isn’t any better than Matt Diaz’s, is set off by his terrible defense. Trying to add this guy when you already have a similar player, who’s better, just doesn’t make sense.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well he’s only had one horrendous defensive season, 2007, which seems to be the outlier so that’s a huge overstatement right there. If Willingham can play first base well enough, which 3 games total does not suggest, then he’d be a nice alternative to LaRoche. And while Diaz does have better slash stats those are helped by facing predominately lefties so I’d argue Willingham is the better hitter though not by much. To sum this up cb is right in that it makes no sense to replace or start Willingham over Diaz but if he can play an effective 1B it’d be an interesting route to pursue
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Range factors and fielding percentage and whatever other kind of stats might say something different, but I’ve seen enough baseball (and played enough outfield personally) to say without any doubt in my mind that Josh Willingham is the worst defensive outfielder I’ve ever seen.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha well then it’s settled. I take it adam dunn was given the day off then
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dunn’s got nothing on Willngham. The guy looks like he’s never seen grass before.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know Adam Dunn is epically bad out there, Manny is pretty ugly too
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but I feel like both of them are bad out indifference. Willingham tries his ass off and is just terrible.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus Willingham is pretty much a void in the OF.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Oct 15, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, reply fail, shoulda stuck with reading above thread.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Oct 15, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Heyward may not be the rookie of the year????
And…… if Laroche leaves then Church will most likely not fill the void of a power bat and our team will have less power than we started off with last year. think about it…..
You have chipper 20 HR tops, McCann 25 HR tops, McLouth 25 HR tops, Diaz 25 HR tops and then who???? Church is a 10-15 HR guy. Willingham is a guy to fill the void if Laroche walks which I think is 65% chance.
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so your suggesting keeping the #1 prospect in all of baseball and minor league player of the year on the farm…just to get willingham? when matty can do it?
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IT IS NO GUARANTEE THAT EITHER WILL BE SUCCESSFUL NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!!! I will name all of the top prospects who struggled their first year if you like. YES, I’m saying that I would trade for a guarantee and transition our two stud prospects into their MLB roles. Yes I would do that and keep us under budget.
Yes, I don’t think Church will replace Laroche’s bat if he’s traded. No, I don’t think you have a ton of 1B options via trade or free agency. If Laroche stays then your right but I don’t think he stays so Willingham is one of many options I would pursue for the numerous reasons I’ve listed above.
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heyward is way different and better than recent top prospects, you obviously can’t expect success but the same applies for a matt diaz type in his first season as a full starter
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this + 1000
Heyward is probably the best prospect since Justin Upton was the top prospect in baseball, and his minor league numbers are much better than Upton’s were.
I’ll go down the list for you:
Jay Bruce: Strikes out more, walks much less, had numbers buoyed by an insane BABIP (and was very, very, very unlucky this season).
Justin Upton: Was 19 when he was called up to the bigs, and wasn’t posting nearly the kind of numbers Heyward was in AA. Walked less, struck out more, had less power. During his age 20 (his birthday is early August, so right around Heyward’s current age) season, he posted an .816 OPS, hitting 15 HRs in 108 games.
Colby Rasmus: Frankly, not in Heyward’s league. Extremely high K rate at all levels, decent BB rate, and overall, less power (though he post an impressive .275 ISO while in AA Springfield in 2007).
Evan Longoria: Solid (but still not Heyward) BB rate, higher K rate, similar ISO while batting for a lower average and getting on base less at AA. Next season, ROY.
Alex Gordon: Limited service time prior to promotion-1 season in minors. High K rate, solid BB rate, but basically torched AA. Probably wasn’t handled too well, though, as his BB rate plummeted in KC-but then again, that franchise simply does not value OBP, but you worry about his diminished power. Still, his awesome AA season is still not quite as good as Heyward.
Cameron Maybin: Don’t know why I’m bring this guy up, except that he was listed as a top prospect for years-he struck out a ton, but walked a ton also. He’ll never approach the type of batspeed that Heyward already has, though.
Matt Wieters: Probably the best overall comp to Heyward’s ridiculous 2009 season-low K rate, insane BB rate, huge OBP and ISO, destroyed AA following his 2008 promotion. The only guy listed who’s matched Heyward’s positive BB/K ratio. Sure, his rookie year was disappointing, but if disappointing is a .753 OPS from the catcher position…ok.
Delmon Young: Honestly, has more in common with Jeff Francouer than Jason Heyward, and there’s a reason Francouer isn’t on this list. Pitch recognition is garbage, and he doesn’t even bring much power to make up for the difference.
Ryan Braun: Never walked as much, struck out more, but had a good bit more power than Heyward has shown. He destroyed AA following a promotion in 2006, next year he was rookie of the year. His OPS at AA in 2006? .956 in 59 games. Heyward’s was 1.057 in 47 games. Braun’s OBP will always be tied much more closely to his AVG than Heyward’s, though.
I think that covers most of the recent top prospects. Most of these guys aren’t as good as Heyward, and those that are have generally had great rookie years.
by Bronn on Oct 14, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe as long as Heyward stays healthy he will be a superstar. Some might read this and go duhhh or whatever but i rarely will flat out say that a prospect WILL become a superstar. No other Brave spec i can say that about even as great as Freeman potential is i cant say the same even though he has been very good in the minors other than his promotion to AA. But i can say Heyward will be a superstar if he stays healthy i just absolutely believe that.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't heard much about Uggla...
but he is probably going to be available. We could deal KJ for a reliever and have Prado on the bench.
by Fischerking on Oct 13, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Time to mix it up and get some new faces
1B-Adam LaRoche (3yr/24 million
2B-Martin Prado
SS-Yunel Escobar
3B-Chipper Jones
LF-Nelson Cruz
CF-Nate McLouth
RF-Jason Heyward
Catcher-Brian McCann (who else?)
Bench: David Ross, Omar Infante, Matt Diaz, Brooks Conrad, then either Sammons or a 5th outfielder for the last spot
1-Tommy Hanson
2-Javier Vazquez
3-Jair Jurrjens
4-Kenskin Kawakami
5-Derek Lowe
CL-Soriano
SU-Moylan
#1Lefty-O’Flaherty
#2-Logan
MR-Cordero (mixing it up, lets add some veterans to our ’pen for once)
MR-Benoit
LR-Campillo
Now is all of that possible? probably not, but would it make our team pretty good in 2010? you bet
by RaffyGonzo on Oct 13, 2009 5:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
who do you trade for Nelson Cruz?
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since Heyward is off-limits
I think a deal for Cruz will likely have to begin with Julio Teheran. I don’t know who else would be apart of that deal, as long as it isn’t Craig Kimbrel.
by RaffyGonzo on Oct 13, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking Teheran...
is as off limits as Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, Bethancourt, etc. He’s up there on the list, and wouldn’t give him up for Cruz. Imagine seeing the Rangers in the playoffs in a couple years with Harrison and Teheran in their rotation, Feliz closing, and Andrus looking like Ozzie Smith at SS, Max Ramirez or Saltalamacchia in the order.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 13, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could care less about Harrison, Andrus isn’t as good as Yunel, Salty and Ramirez don’t look like much, and if they want to “waste” Feliz’s talent by having him close that’d be even better. Honestly Teheran and Feliz are the only two there that I’d truly regret not having and neither are sure things as far as starting goes, with teheran being far, far riskier
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont care for Harrison, he isn’t someone i miss at all. Teheran and Feliz would be the only 2 guys that i would truly truly miss.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my point was...
not whether we miss the players. It was more the possibility that the Rangers make the playoffs with several of their roster being former Braves farmhands, especially if they add Teheran for Cruz.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 14, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhh… gotcha. yeah that would suck lol.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no Medlen? And who is Benoit, the name doesn’t ring any bells for me
by ATLforlife on Oct 13, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RP for the Texas Rangers. Missed like half of last year cause of an injury i think. I think he still has another year or two on his contract which is quite brutal based on his louzy performance and injury.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Random Question
Assuming we keep JJ, Vasquez, and Hanson, who would you have start the season opener?
by blitzerlover on Oct 13, 2009 6:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My pick as well, if he gets traded JJ would be my #2.
by blitzerlover on Oct 13, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
would Hudson be an option?...
he has been with the club the longest, with a proven history as the #1.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 13, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only way he would be the #1 for us and get that first start is if he is still with us and Vaz is hurt or traded. But even then JJ would prolly get the start over Hudson.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Javy.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Oct 15, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would select Vazquez.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 14, 2009 12:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Could we get Beltran from the mets! They need pitching we need power! Lowe Beltran lowe Beltran!!
Baseball is my life
by That a boy on Oct 14, 2009 3:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hmm..thats pretty interesting…and omar minaya might be stupid enough to do it.
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 14, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe is white so minaya will pass, now throw in diory hernandez and gregor blanco and minaya will take that as a sure win deal. In all seriousness, the mets aren’t trading beltran to us
by McCann's the Man on Oct 14, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sarcasm fail! I guess he thought Frenchy was hispanic.
Baseball is my life
by That a boy on Oct 14, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derek Baja?
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 15, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That will not happen. Its one thing to do a deal for Frenchy they had nothin to lose and see if they could still get any potential out of Frenchy, but its another to deal Beltran for Lowe. I can say that that would not happen as long as Lowe is with the Braves and Beltran is with the Mets.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but the Mets want to get rid of beltran, well thats a report from a reporter so it may or may not be true, and they need pitching so it could happen.
Baseball is my life
by That a boy on Oct 14, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just would like to point out that the FA that would most help our offense just said he’d test FA: Rudy Jaramillo. I know there’s already a fanshot but I’d love to see him here and relieve pendleton of his position, wren could certainly make his imprint on this team that way
by McCann's the Man on Oct 14, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i thought they already said the entire coaching staff is coming back next year
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 14, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don’t ruin the dream with logic man
by McCann's the Man on Oct 14, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are we considering Nelson Cruz?
He had one good season, in one of the most hitter friendly ballparks in baseball. His OBP and avg. weren’t that great (.260, .332). He was also banged up all season and has never played more than 128 games. Also, his Home/Road splits are horrible. Yes, he only hit 3 fewer HRs on the road, but he only hit .232 on the road, with a weak .300OBP and .478SLG.
If we can get him for spare parts, im all for it. But some people above were suggesting we send the Rangers Julio Teheran (who is our best pitching prospect, IMO) plus other prospects. You gotta be kidding me. Nelson Cruz isn’t that good.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 15, 2009 12:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This. This. This.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 15, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im glad someone finally agrees with me!
I’ve been seeing all these posts saying we should get Nelson Cruz the past week or so, and I couldn’t hold my tongue anymore. I kept thinking “oh, im just not seeing it since everyone else really wants him”, but not anymore.
I also have some buddies in Texas who follow the Rangers, and they said Nelson is REALLY inconsistent. He’ll hit 7HRs in 10 days, and then not hit another one for a month. No thanks
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 15, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always think it’s funny when the guy everyone wants is somebody who’s only had one year of success. A lot of these rosterbation posts are based around these guys who might just be flashes in the pan. It’s like, “oh, he had a good year and even though I never heard of him before that one good year, he must be great, let’s get him.”
Last offseason everybody was all over Ryan Ludwick and I remember saying, wait, he’s not that good, and look what happened, 15 fewer home runs and .191 point lower OPS. Now granted, he would have been a lot better than Garret Anderson, but everyone wanted to trade Kelly Johnson for him, and sure, it turns out that might have been a good move, but at the time KJ was looking like he was going to keep being great and you couldn’t be sure what you’d get out of Prado in a full time roll. The point is, that was way too much to give up for somebody with no history.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 15, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I’ll be honest, I wanted us to pursue Ludwick last season, but after going 72-90, I was desperate for any new players. Guys have to prove it for more than 1 year to start trading for him (especially if we’re gonna start dealing our top pitching prospects)
I saw someone yelling on a MLBTR thread that the Braves should trade for Garrett Jones. Some of the Pirates fans were saying we should send them Teheran, Hicks AND Adam Milligan for Jones and a few of the Braves fans actually thought it was a good deal. Maybe it was a joke and I didnt get it?
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 15, 2009 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be insane…I’d elaborate, but after several attempts, I’ve found I don’t have the words. It would be akin to Detroit giving up Jair Jurrjens and Gorkys Hernandez for Edgar Renteria.
by Bronn on Oct 15, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cruz and Garrett Jones aren’t similar.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 15, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but have to respectfully disagree. The Braves put too way too high of a price tag on Kelly and should have moved him when he could have fetched us something substantial in return.
I was one of those strongly advocating making the Kelly for Ludwick trade (no idea if it was ever actually being discussed by the teams) and still think that it would have – prospectively – been a great trade in that we urgently needed a RH power hitter. This is notwithstanding that Ludwick did not have a bunch of successful ML seasons of history. He definitely had one fairly monsterous year and was a young veteran (albeit mostly in AA and AAA).
Ultimately, of course, we didn’t get the urgently needed RH power hitter and used GA instead, which clearly was a huge mistake that hurt us badly all year and likely cost us a playoff berth. From that perspective and in light of GA’s (very predictable) marginally mediocre contribution and Kelly’s near total collapse resulting in his present status of likely being non-tendered, and even with Ludwick’s production decreasing (22 HRs, 97 RBI, .447 SLG, .775 OPS), it would have – retrospectively – been even a better trade.
by fandave on Oct 15, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i was for that deal as well. I said that if we could get us a good OF for KJ then make the trade, but oh well, it may not have ever really been much of a rumor anyway we will prolly never know.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 15, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, probaby the most overrated player, besides derek jeter, in baseball..he has streaky power and an inconsistent hitter all around, do not want him in the middle of our lineup…plus, i never, ever wanna trade with the rangers again
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 15, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait another REALLY inconsistent player? Isn’t that what we HAD at 2B in KJ? Hmmmm….. very similar it sounds like lol. Btw… i dont know if Cruz was streaky or not i didn’t watch very many Rangers games, just sayin if he is as streaky as Rangers fans say well chances are he is streaky lol.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 15, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his BABIP is way lower on the road from what I remember but I agree there’s no way i’m sending a Teheran or Delgado back for Cruz
by McCann's the Man on Oct 15, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and no way in hell i would do Jurrjens straight up for Cruz like one poster wanted as well.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 15, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not unless they’re sending another major piece back along with cruz
by McCann's the Man on Oct 15, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would have to be one hell of a major league piece thats for damn sure.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 16, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another closer option
Takashi Saito was outrighted by the Red Sox today. He’s off their 40 man roster and has more than 3 years service which means he can choose free agency. He made $1.5 million base this year. He’ll be 40 before next season begins but he could be a good short term option at closer. If we are unable to resign Soriano or Gonzalez then he could be good for a year. He has closer experience with 83 saves in 4 years. He was 3-3 with 2 saves, 2.43 ERA, in 56 games, 55.2 innings, gave up 50 hits, BB 25, and K’d 52.
We only have 1 guy currently signed for next season that I would trust closing. Saito could be a cheap 1 year closer.
by jack dein on Oct 15, 2009 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Na
I’d much rather just sign Gonzo or Soriano. I’m tired of us always changing our closer and set up guys around.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 15, 2009 4:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Signing him would be a backup plan in case we couldn’t resign Soriano or Gonzalez. I doubt Soriano is back next year. He will get a contract to be a teams closer and we won’t be able to match it. I think he will get somewhere around 4 years $28-32 million. Gonzalez won’t get as much and I see him signing with a team that has a protected 1st round pick. I think that the Cubs could be a fit for him. I think that he signs for 3 years $18-21 million.
I don’t see us having the money to match or even come close to matching those numbers without losing someone somewhere else. Saito could be signed for 1 year and around $2-3 million.
by jack dein on Oct 15, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting candidate. Obviously would want to add one more guy in addition (Capps, Wuertz, etc) but it’s a name to keep an eye on
by McCann's the Man on Oct 15, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Yanks rotation has issues in the ALCS/WS
I wonder if we could interest them in a Lowe for Swisher deal..
by Lennox on Oct 16, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not a bad idea.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 16, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that’d be a great deal…are their contracts similiar?
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 16, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher is owed a little over $20M through 2011 with a team option and a $1M buyout for 2012
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 16, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, that can’t be…can it? his contract is that big?
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 16, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher remaining contract:
10:$6.75M, 11:$9M,
12:$10.25M club option ($1M buyout)
2012 option increases to $12M with top 5 in MVP vote any year 2007-11
limited no-trade clause 2011-12 (may block deals to 6 clubs)
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 16, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well that makes sense
so its worth more than $20MM thru 2012, not 2011. that seems right.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 16, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not huge on Swisher, but I think that might would fly. Your basically looking about 4-5 teams that has no restrictions on money. I wonder if the Dodgers would do a deal revolving around Lowe and Medlen for Either or Kemp?
by wcubmac on Oct 16, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha please tell me this was a joke
by McCann's the Man on Oct 16, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ned Colletti is training to be the next Omar Minaya...
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 16, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ethier and Kemp are 2 of the most untouchable players in baseball.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 16, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is a little too much of an overstatement but there are few players the Dodgers should or would trade Kemp, and by extension Ethier, for
by McCann's the Man on Oct 16, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Name me a CF better than Matt Kemp.
Andre Ethier is arguably the most clutch player in baseball (he had something like 6 walk-off hits this year), is cheap the next 4 seasons, plays solid defense, and is a helluva hitter who is only going to get better and better and better.
obviously, if the Braves offered BMac, Heyward, Esco and Hanson for those guys, the Dodgers would trade them, but outside of a stupid deal like that, they wont be traded.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 17, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they wouldn’t do Kemp for Escobar, I know that. But obviously guys like Braun, Longoria, etc would be a no brainer
by McCann's the Man on Oct 17, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ethier
clutch hitting is probably not a repeatable skill for most guys… Ethier had the 6th highest average leverage this year, so he had a lot more opportunities than most to be clutch.
Don’t disagree with your initial point, however.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 17, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh
I agree, it’s not repeatable, but some guys are just better hitters in the big situation. Same for pitchers as well.
Esco is, BMac isnt. Smoltzy was, Maddux wasnt. Just my thought.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 18, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garrett Atkins?
Here’s an article saying the Rox may non-tender him.
I’m not advocating him as an option for the Braves, but he is only 29, is a RH big bat with a very good history of success (although he played horribly last saeson), might come here cheap, our corner IF depth (including legit prospects in the farm system) is weak, weak, weak …
by fandave on Oct 16, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
only as a bench player (which i doubt he would want). from looking at PurpleRow.com, it seems like Atkins was absolutely horrible this year and always killed rallies.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 16, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
terrible defender, mediocre hitter, and declining power. Not overly excited but I guess if he comes cheap I’d be fine with it
by McCann's the Man on Oct 16, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 years in row, before heading south in 09, he was substantially better than mediocre. In fact, 2 of the 4 (06 and 07) were pretty monsterous.
one bad year could be the foreshadowings of a decline or just an anomoly.
by fandave on Oct 16, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s been in decline for multiple years and only had one season where he was better than average at 3B. Decent reclamation project and I’ll take him over Norton but I wouldn’t expect much, as was said below he had some pretty differentiable splits home/road
by McCann's the Man on Oct 16, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's also benefited from a Coors bump
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 16, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WARNING….EXTREME ROSTERBATION!!!
Offseason:
Once the braves find a sucker to take lowe, they will have about 70 million dollars on the payroll (i’m assuming we will have to eat a few million on lowe’s contract, so hudson’s 12 mil option will end up evening out after we sign him for 3/30).
that gives roughly 22 million left for free agents. the braves could sign these 3 guys for 20 mil total:
adam laroche 2/16
mike gonzalez 2/12
xavier nady 1/5
that creates a little flexibility in regards to church and johnson. i am assuming that neither of these guys will be braves next year and will be traded, so that adds an extra 6 million. so, there would be about 8 million left to sign a closer or 2 solid bullpen arms.
point being: if lowe goes, so does our financial problems. i would love this lineup against lefties:
mclouth
prado
chipper
nady
escobar
mccann
laroche
diaz
That is no big bopper lineup, but it has 2 guys that can hit 25-30 hr, 3 guys that can hit 20-25 hr, and 3 guys that can hit 13-20 hr (assuming prado and escobar’s power numbers arent flukes, which they didnt seem to be).
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
by ryan c on Oct 17, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Supporting Cast...
My two cents worth….
Garrett Anderson, Professional Hitter. Thank you for your service, you’re a great guy, but I can’t find a roster spot for you.
Greg Norton, Professional Walker. Thank you for your service, but we need someone who uses more than two pieces of lumber per year.
Ryan Church. Thank you for handling right field. If you’d consent to a pay cut, you can be our late-innings pinch hitter in 2010. If not, then Mr. Anderson may yet have a spot, since Bobby Cox really likes a seasoned pro around for this job.
Brooks Conrad, Barbaro Canizares. Reid Gorecki, Freddie Freeman.. Maybe two of you guys get to stay in Atlanta; Ah, spring competition: I like it.
-
Outfield. This is really hard. McClouth for sure. I like Diaz in Left and Heyward in right. Nady is a nice idea, but a long shot. Now what you’ve created is a team of doubles hitters. Not bad, but Chipper and Brian would be in the 4-5 slots in the order (maybe Brian first, but that means CJones gets 35 GIDPs in 2010). But Heyward is ready: he’s in the business of punishing baseballs and has done so consistently at every level. He’ll be hitting 3rd in the lineup… maybe before Chipper finishes his career. Bring him up, Frank.
-
Pitching. Given the salaries, someone has to go that’s named Lowe, Hudson, or Vasquez. Maybe Soriano. I would try to move them in that order of priority. The big question: what can you get for a #2 or #3 workhorse starter? Kawakawi should be better (and wasn’t bad!) since he’s now used to the American workload. Dang I like the pitching staff!
-
First base. Last Year I was screaming at the monitor ‘Forget Peavy, go get Adrian Gonzalez!!’ Well, he’s off the table now, and I dunno that he’d be nearly as happy and productive outside of SDiego anyway. So re-sign Adam (everybody now knows his worth – just gotta get him going in the First Half of 2010). He’ll be the best bang-for-buck.
-
2nd Base. Prado. Keep Infante as the utility guy (i.e., Chipper gap-filler). KJohnson… utility and extra OF?
by carpengui on Oct 17, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
whaaaat?!
“Garrett Anderson, Professional Hitter. Thank you for your service, you’re a great guy, but I can’t find a roster spot for you.”
I think you and I are the only people on here who actually like GA!
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 17, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like him as a hitter but his defense is so terribly pathetic
by McCann's the Man on Oct 17, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya, I'd love him in a PH role.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 17, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't rosterbation
but Jason Heyward was pulled in the 4th inning of tonights game.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 18, 2009 12:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How dare you not rosterbate in rosterbatorium!
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 18, 2009 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“rosterbatorium”
oh god, i can feel myself going blind
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Oct 18, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just talk your hairy palms from your eyes.
by Salty on Oct 18, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this worries me....
jason heyward, as a young player, has had quite a few stretches that have kept him from playing.
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
by ryan c on Oct 18, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Brad Hawpe?
Yes, he’s playing in Colorado and yes, he’s a lefty, but he’s on the trading block ever since the Rox young OFs came up.
He’s gonna hit you 20HRs, w/ a .280 average or so and a high OBP. He’s also a great guy in the clubhouse (according to Rockies fans at PurpleRow.com)
Looking at his splits, he hit for a higher avg., obp, and had a bunch more doubles at home.
On the road, however, he hit 5 more HRs than at home, and slugged the same as he did at home.
Thoughts?
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 18, 2009 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
DOB...
reported that the braves arent even looking at left-handed options in the outfield.
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
by ryan c on Oct 18, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well for Hawpe i would hope that we would make an exception cause that guy can play.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 18, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
same here. the Phillies dont seem to have too many problems with their lineup…and Werth is the only true RH bat they have besides Feliz and Ruiz.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 18, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
we would still have MattyD on the bench as a 4th OF. If we were facing a tough lefty, just throw him out there and let Hawpe have the day off.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 18, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s also arguably the worst OF defender in baseball so thanks but no thanks unless the NL is adding the DH to the lineup
by McCann's the Man on Oct 18, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has a hell of an arm. And yes, his UZR rating is bad, but UZR can only tell you so much. Ryan Braun has a bad UZR…but do you hear any Brewers fans complaining?
If the Braves are trying to improve their offense, I dont think a fielding statistic should influence our decision.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braun is actually a pretty good defender.
I think I’ve seen about 30 Cardinal games this year and about 20 times I’ve seen Rasmus take bad routes, have trouble catching the ball when he has to go back on it and even a few clank off his glove. But he’s got a shiny UZR.
by Salty on Oct 18, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's why I think
UZR is a joke.
I agree about Braun. He seems to do a solid job in LF, but according to UZR, he’s horrible (like -10 or something like that).
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 18, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UZR in my opinion is flawed i guess you could look at it and take what you will from it but its not somethin i would go about evaluating if i would take that guy on my team or not just cause he has a bad UZR.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 19, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i highly doubt that you watched every brewers game so I don’t see how you can really have an informed opinion on Braun’s defense besides a few glimpses. Fact is it could have just been a down year for him (believe it or not, defense is like offense in that some cases it fluctuates year to year) because he did have a -3 rating last year.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 19, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"believe it or not, defense is like offense in that some cases it fluctuates year to year"
Thanks man! This is only my 3rd week of watching baseball so I had absolutely no idea that was the case! I learn something new every day.
Okay, so you want a good defender instead of a poor one, eh? I’ll take Ryan Braun or Brad Hawpe on my team and you can have Nyger Morgan, Ryan Sweeney, Franklin Gutierrez, Randy Winn or Juan Rivera (the top 5 OFs with the highest UZR rankings) on your team. I think this is fair since you apparently love UZR ratings.
Sound good?
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 19, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
look i wasn’t trying to be a dick to you personally but the main complaint i hear about uzr is that it fluctuates and people forget that defensive performance much like offensive performance is not going to always be consistent year to year. Give me Gutierrez, Morgan, and Sweeney/Rivera and you take a ton of would be hits away. A run saved is as good as a run earned. I’d definitely take Braun over any of those guys but after that I think you could have a pretty convincing argument for a few guys at #2. If you want proof of UZR’s validity just look at the 2009 Seattle Mariners. Their pitching staff’s ERA greatly outproduced their collective FIP due to a team behind them that posted an all time best UZR (collective)
by McCann's the Man on Oct 19, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Oct 19, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the OF, it can also be collective though...
put Braun in LF next to Morgan, and he doesn’t have to cover as much ground. Imagine how bad Chipper would have been in left, without Andruw covering his ass. If the real Schafer is those first few weeks, and Heyward is as expected, you can put say Jake Fox in LF, and he wouldn’t be as bad as he would next to some others thanks to Schafer and Heyward covering enough ground to let him worry about a smaller portion of the field.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 19, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very good point
Andruw made our LF and RF look damn good whether they were good or not lol.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 19, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
putting someone next to an outstanding fielder
may improve defense, but it will produce a lower UZR for the player next to the outstanding one.
by Salty on Oct 19, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So UZR penalizes one for good teammates?...
that sounds suspect.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 20, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not at all
A CFer with great range allows the corner OFers to cheat closer to the line than normal, so they end up getting credit for making plays “outside” of their standard zone as a result while they’ll still make the routine plays within their zone.
Just look at what happened to the UZR/150 for Francoeur and Diaz after Andruw left. They went from very good ratings to below average.
by Lennox on Oct 21, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And when the better player catches a ball
in their zone? Or the altered positioning leads to balls hit in the static zone fall for hits? Getting some OOZ plays doesn’t fix the flaw with assigned zones that often are unrelated to actual responsibilities.
by Salty on Oct 22, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure that they don’t count it against you when another player makes a play in your zone, they do, however, give you credit for, say, saving runs by getting to more balls hit near the line because the quality CFer allows you to cheat in that direction.
by Lennox on Oct 24, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure they do. And if you cheat toward the line and a ball lands in the gap, that’s a FAIL. Of course all that is some guy guessing at it.
by Salty on Oct 24, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In UZR you only get negative points if a ball in your zone is a hit. If it is caught, by anyone, it clearly isn’t a hit and can’t possibly be counted as a negative against you.
Usually a ball hit into a zone that could be covered by two players will count against both if it is a hit, so having a CFer with great range will obviously save more gap hits and result in fewer negatives being assigned to the corner OFer.
If that corner OFer can cheat toward the line because the CFer can cover the gap on his own, obviously it results in more positives (outs recorded in zones that the average LFer can’t get to because he has to protect the gap).
In short, having one OFer with a lot of range can only help the UZR of the fielders playing around him and can’t possibly hurt his UZR.
by Lennox on Oct 26, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or not
Why assume that without evidence? There are a whole host of factors and systemic biases that exist in UZR that could also explain its rating. I also don’t really think that defense has down years the way offense does.
by Salty on Oct 19, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly the same
two explanations of wild variance
1) Player has exceptionally good/bad year defensively (This happens! A career is not a large enough sample to judge defensive talent with certainty, let alone one season)
2) Player didn’t perform as well/poorly as rating indicates, but statistic misjudged his performance.
So, ya, defense does vary. Just like offense: a good hitter may swing the bat poorly for a season, or he may swing the bat well, but do so in a way that is not accurately reflected by most statistics (e.g. poor BAbip, HR/FB rates).
So sometimes the statistic will be misleading, but not in any way that offensive metrics aren’t as well.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 19, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
#2 doesn't support the argument
I still don’t buy #1. Players improve and decline, but the idea that they can go into prolonged fielding slumps – well, speaking only for myself, I don’t buy it.
by Salty on Oct 19, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 supports my argument...
That sometimes variance is justified by player performance and sometimes the metric misjudges.
Take hitting slumps for example. Surely some are caused by poor mechanics, etc., but many are the product of a series of PAs in which the batter continues to recognize pitches and swing the bat well, but faces superior pitching, is victimized by tremendous defense, or loses out on some other sort of luck factor. In these latter examples, his offensive contributions are exactly the same, but the flaws of the metric(s) are exposed because they indicate poor performance.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 19, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
the original argument implied that the metric was without failings. Here is an example. Billy the STATS stringer looks at the video and guesses where the “zone” is and guesses whether the ball would have hit there.
by Salty on Oct 20, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy would actually work for BIS
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 20, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+/- hates Hawpe as well so this is most certainly not a case where you can simply shake it off as UZR being a bad stat
by McCann's the Man on Oct 19, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what if Hawpe works on his game and becomes a solid defender and even his UZR says he is good next year? I mean Diaz used to be pretty bad in LF but he worked on his game and has become a pretty dependable guy in the OF. I personally think LF is the place where you dont look too much on defense as long as they can catch the damn ball, hit the cutoff man, dont make stupid errors and have at least a solid arm and has enough speed to cover some ground then fine and Hawpe plays RF for the Rockies so move him to LF and there you go. I think he will give us respectable defense along with his very good offense. I would take that…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 19, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point. i didnt think about that.
he would obviously move over to LF when Heyward came up, so his defense would probably improve.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 19, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering the Rockies will want top prospects, he’s going to make a decent amount of money, and his poor defensive track record I just don’t think he’s worth it. I think we can find better production for a cheaper cost. There would be some improvement from RF to LF but forecasting Hawpe for a solid defensive season is not something I would count on, possible yes but not likely. It’s like expecting Heyward to come up and mash 40 HR’s. Diaz was never as bad as Hawpe. If we played in a park like Citizens Bank with a small LF and very little ground to cover I’d be all over this move because then defensive importance decreases but Turner has some ground to cover
by McCann's the Man on Oct 19, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“I think we can find better production for a cheaper cost.”
I dont mean to be a dick here so dont take it that way, but what the hell you smokin? How we gonna get better production offensively for a cheaper cost? If somebody is producin better than him then well that team is not gonna trade him less than the Rocks would and im not sure if we will have much money to go after a big OF so not sure how we will do what you said lol. Now if your talkin about better production meanin so-so offensive and very good defense from LF then well thats fine but if thats the case we have two totally different philosophies on this one.
I dont watch Hawpe daily play the field but i did with Diaz and he was pretty bad i find it hard to believe that Hawpe is wayyyy worst than Diaz was, i mean sure he might be a lil worst but not much to make a difference. I realize Turner has ground to cover i just dont view LF as a terribly important defensive position i mean i listed what a LF should do as LONG as they supply the offense like he has done and i stated it above. And he can do that.
I mean it would depend what it would take to get him, i wouldn’t give up great great value for the guy but if its somethin solid then sure.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 19, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hawpe is looking at like 7-8M for his services next season then couple that with the prospects we’d have to give up and that’s a pretty steep price there. Give me a Mike Cameron or possibly even a cheap Rick Ankiel/Matt Diaz platoon through FA (and yes that speaks to the not better offensively but good enough plus awesome defense)
by McCann's the Man on Oct 19, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true he is lookin at makin a good bit but we could afford that if we let KJ go and Church go either non tender or in a trade but anyway Cameron would be pretty solid i guess cause i doubt he would make that much but he still made 4 errors last year while Hawpe made 5 errors, im not gonna sit here and say Hawpe is better cause i believe Cameron is but like i said earlier about Hawpe as long as he does what i stated above in LF he will be a fine fine LF for us. Ankiel? really? whatever you say. Either way i dont think neither are better options cause i wouldn’t mind just seein Diaz playin over Ankiel. Hawpe will supply the offense that we need and play well enough defense in LF. We would be a worst team with Cameron or Ankiel out there than with Hawpe. But thats fine if you like a really good defender in LF and a so-so hitter there. We just dont and never will agree on this but thats fine.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 19, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the big difference is
Hawpe is in the prime of his career.
Cameron is in the final few years of his. And Ankiel….personally, I dont think he’s gonna do much once he leaves St. Louis.
I’d definately prefer the younger guy. And yes, if we wanted Hawpe, we could definately afford him. GA and Norton clear up $3MM immediately, and you gotta think we’re not gonna hold onto Church and/or KJ (depends if the Braves are gonna give him the starting job back; if not, no reason to have a 3-4 million dollar bench player). That’s 10 million bucks right there without losing much…what’s Hawpe’s remaining contract? Something like 2yrs/$15MM w/ an option on the 3rd year? I think it is. If so, we could definately afford him.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 19, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hawpe contract:
10:$7.5M, 11:$10M club option ($0.5M buyout)
if traded, Hawpe may void 2011 club option.
You know thats reasonable for a player like Hawpe. Better than a Ankiel or Cameron option in my view.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 19, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not talking about affording him, im saying for the cost of acquiring a player (money and prospects) we could get a comparable player for less. Rick Ankiel OPS’ed .863 and .843 in the two years prior to 09, and while OPS is hardly the end all be all of offensive statistics it is a good indication of talent. By comparison Hawpe is averaging roughly .900 OPS the last three years. It’s a good gap but then consider that Ankiel is a well above average defender at the corners with the capability of playing CF and will likely get a deal for under 5M base (plus no prospect cost) and suddenly an Ankiel/Diaz platoon starts looking more and more attractive
by McCann's the Man on Oct 19, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 years ago, where have i heard that argument from??? I dont know i cant remember lol. But anyway what if Ankiel sucks then its just Diaz starting and Ankiel as a 4th OF. Ankiel is not gonna be cheap. Like i always said depends what we would have to deal for Hawpe. Maybe they would want a ridiculous price but with this bein his last guaranteed year maybe they just want some solid specs who knows. I think we could deal somethin. His contract is actually solid for us cause we aren’t obligated to keep him after the 2010 season so we wont be burdened by a big salary like we are with Lowe right now. I figured many thought McLouth would cost alot and he wasn’t cheap but that was a good deal for us. And McLouth has more years on his contract. I think this is a realistic deal.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel is also a Borass client.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 20, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you really think anybody is going to pay Ankiel a lot just because he’s a Boras guy? Isn’t Varitek a Boras client too? Just because scott boras is your agent doesn’t mean you clean up in FA
by McCann's the Man on Oct 20, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He got Andruw Jones a nice 2 year deal which was a good bit more than some thought he would get after that pitiful season in 07.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and before that a career heading towards cooperstown. Andruw had a HOF track record, ankiel nowhere near
by McCann's the Man on Oct 20, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true but many people saw Jones losin a few steps in the OF at the time, and him bein overweight not taken care of his body like he should and him bein stubborn and doin what he wanted to do so yeah with all that said Boras did extremely well gettin that contract for Jones if i do say so myself.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McLouth had an incredibly cheap contract and was on a perennial loser, totally different situation. Colorado not looking to rebuild like Pitt was. Besides as O Dowd has said they aren’t looking at trading him so it’s going to take more than just a couple decent prospects
by McCann's the Man on Oct 20, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well for one thing Rockies dealt Holliday last year and were shoppin Atkins as well and this is Hawpe last guaranteed year so why wouldn’t they shop Hawpe? I realize Holliday will make more money but Hawpe isn’t gonna be cheap either. I see in the right deal they would deal Hawpe.
And since McLouth had an incredibly cheap contract dont you think they would have wanted to wait and see if a team really wants to give up more? I dont see how its a different situation at all.
GM’s say alot of stuff so if you wanna put stock in what O Dowd said then fine. Im not sure what it would take but its a better option than most.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t buy the fact that he’s not getting traded but there’s less motivation to move an everyday regular on a playoff team than a team in dire need of rebuilding. If you don’t see the difference between Colorado and Pittsburgh’s situations then there’s clearly an issue here
by McCann's the Man on Oct 20, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow is all i can say to this. When did i ever say i dont see a difference between the Rocks and Pirates situations??? I was referring to McLouth contract cause he has an extra year on his contract which you could argue makes his trade value HIGHER.
Rockies were in the WS in 2007 and in the offseason of 2008 dealt away a big name in Holliday. You can say cause of his contract or whatever but the fact is they dealt him. So i can certainly see the same thing happen here with Hawpe bein dangled…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we let Church walk...
and Ankiel could come in at a reasonable price (although I have trouble seeing him accept less than Church would), I’d love that pickup. He’s shown solid power at the plate, can play all 3 OF positions, and you never know if he could have a career year and really perform well. Plus, maybe he can refind the strike zone and become the closer as well?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 20, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yall do know that Ankiel has had 1 good season offensively right??? Yes i know he was in the minors to be an offensive player after he was a pitcher but its ridiculous to sit here and want Ankiel on this team when the guy will prolly end up makin 4+ million dollars potentially multi year deal who knows especially with Boras as his agent. Let Church walk and give me the productive OF Hawpe everyday and twice on Sunday!!!
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless there's a lefty scheduled for Sunday...
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 20, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
even so i would STILL rather have him on my team than Ankiel or Cameron or other so so guys like that.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be surprised if Cameron gets less than 7-8 million
by Salty on Oct 19, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salty i dont know how much Cameron is gonna make and dont care, i would still rather have Hawpe than him lol, that was mainly my point.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 19, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THIS
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 19, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah is errors somethin nobody should talk about? Wtf does that suppose to mean i mean really. Im not the one sayin errors are the be all in all stat but its a legit fielding stat no matter what you wanna say. Just like Batting average is a legit offensive stat no matter what people say. I like OBP more i just do, but for some to say batting average is irrelevant is ridiculous because just like OBP, BA is in the HITTERS hands and errors is in the FIELDERS hands. The only stat i say that is irrelevant is W/L record that means absolutely nothin, thats a team stat. I mean you might can say sometimes the fielders scorer may get those errors wrong but usually they are spot on for an OF. If you dont wanna think nothin of errors then fine.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
errors for OF’s is one of the most obsolete statistics in baseball. Brad Hawpe gets to a hell of a lot less baseballs than Mike Cameron, of course his error count should be much lower (which it isn’t)
by McCann's the Man on Oct 20, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His glove and bat are much better than Hawpe's...
That’s why Wisconsonians are content.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 19, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wat
Some guy from Braves.com:
“Let’s offer Arizona Derek Lowe-Manny Acosta-James Parr-Jo-Jo Reyes-Steve Marek (They can have Carlyle & Campillo if they are still around – They are NOT on the 40 man roster) For Mark Reynolds and Eric Byrnes”
I think this deserves mention, as it is the definition of rosterbation.
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Oct 20, 2009 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
more like idiotic, quantity works in video games but not in real life and someone needs to let that guy know it
by McCann's the Man on Oct 20, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
223 strike outs, how the hell is that even possible? wow.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont mind the K's
so long as he does everything else well. Hes like brandon hicks without the sucking.
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Oct 20, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his OBP isn’t the greatest but it is tolerable especially considering he hit 40+ bombs. But man that many K’s just looks bad lol. I just seriously dont know how he struck out that many times you gotta work at strikin out that much.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in an interview i saw
he wasnt worried one bit about setting the record for the most Ks in a season. Not the best mindset for a developing 26 year old.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 21, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I personally don’t like strikeouts, because they’re unproductive outs; if you but the ball in play any number of things might happen, but if you whiff and walk back to the bench, well, that’s all that’s going to happen. That being said, if you look at the leaderboards for home run hitters and RBIs, basically any big name boppers, those are gonna be the guys who are all over the strikeout lists. As much as I think anyone would prefer fewer strikeouts to go with the power, if you can mash like Reynolds can, I personally can overlook the Ks.
Plus, he’s from Virginia Beach, so I gotta love the kid.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 21, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i can overlook the K’s as well cause he can flat out mash with 40+ homers but it would be nice for him to try to work on that in the offseason to at least make it 190-210 respectable for the guy. Only way this is tolerable is with his 09 season. That 08 season isn’t tolerable thats for sure. So yeah as long as he hits a bunch of bombs it can be tolerated to an extent.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 21, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Heyward update
anyone know if he’s okay? He left Friday’s game early and hasnt played since then. Im getting a little worried.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 20, 2009 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
dude you haven’t heard??? Heyward ended up with a tear in his leg man.
;)
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 20, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
/takes gun to head and pulls the trigger
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 20, 2009 8:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Cuddyer
I posted this somewhere else a day or so ago…but I am thinking that the Twins may be someone that we could trade with.
The twins are very short on pitching and lack infield depth. Would a trade of KK and KJ and maybe a prospect be enough to get Cuddyer? He would be a great fit roster wise. I think he has one year on his contract…he can play an above average RF…or play 1B. He is RH and is a good clubhouse guy. KK is on a reasonable contract and has a good defense around him. I would also tend to think that the new ballpark..being outside..will play big so he won’t be as susceptible to the HR ball. I think everyone would agree that KJ has upside and could play in the OF or at at 2B for the Twins and give them some really good value at an infield position where they have been playing the likes of Rivas and Puntos the last couple of years.
I would love to say trade Lowe for Cuddyer…but they can’t afford him and there is no way we are moving JJ or Hanson. Would you trade Vazquez straight up for him?
As for a team that could take Lowe…maybe Texas? They are desperate for pitching and Lowe’s sinker would make sense in Texas. Would they consider moving Cruz for Lowe? My guess would be no..but worth thinking about.
Outside of those two teams….Cleveland could use pitching but they aren’t going to move Choo. Milwaukee needs pitching but all they can offer is hart…and I don’t think he would be the ansewer. he is looking like French II.
And as for Arizona… Byrnes is too much of a gamble…and we don’t want any piece of Reynolds.
by calbers on Oct 22, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Lowe is an age related decline
and I don’t think he is, he could be a 15 million dollar anchor. You’re asking other teams to give up premium players. The question is his contract.
by Salty on Oct 22, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we don’t want any piece of Reynolds, seriously? That is really funny
by McCann's the Man on Oct 22, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 22, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would we want Reynolds?
He struck out 223 times this year…and his k rate has gotten worse…not better with age.
His OBP looked ok this year but was only .329 last year and we are not talking Dunn here…where he K’s 175 times..but walks 125 times. That K to BB ration is a decent 1.5 or so….Where are Reynolds is something like 3.14 for his career. That is not good and given that his K rate has gone up the last three years..I have no reason to suspect he will get his swing under control. In fact I would argue that pitchers will give him less and less to hit in the middle of the plate and his K number could increase even more.
Keep in mind that he went from AA to MLB at 23 due to injuries. He never had patience in the minors…and has only been worse in the majors. Keep in mind that his OPS isn’t all that great …about the same as Matt Diaz. Would I take Reynolds…maybe…if he was given away. Would I trade away pitching for him? No.
by calbers on Oct 22, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reynolds swings and misses quite a bit, but he has a respectable O-Swing% and actually a very good BB%. Also, when he does make contact, he makes a lot of it, as evidenced by his .284 ISO and average HR distance of 415 ft (best in baseball).
He’s a very valuable hitter, and, as a righty with enormous power, would be a perfect fit for our lineup.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 23, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 23, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially if the massive...
Lowe contract could be shed in the process. You get that power bat from the right side, although there is those insane K #s so I’m not sure how much you’d want him hitting cleanup, but I guess he’d play 1B and then be capable of sliding back across the diamond if/when Chipper hung it up. He certainly wouldn’t be option A, but not bad with the position flexibility and need for someone to play 3B once Larry leaves.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 23, 2009 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
maybe cause he hit 44HRs, 30 doubles, 24SB, .349OBP, .543 slug., with an OPS near .900 in 2009? He also put up these numbers on one of the worst teams in baseball, with absolutely no protection all year.
Yeah, he strikes out a bunch, but the Braves as a team don’t strike out that much. Not to mention Reynolds is only 26, so he’s only gonna get better and better.
The DBacks aren’t trading Reynolds tho. We can just forget about that all together.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 22, 2009 11:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
reply fail to calbers
damnit.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 22, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All in all an odd combination of numbers.
by Salty on Oct 23, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well as you can see in the comment above you
it was a reply to calbers who threw some stats out there. Sorry i didn’t feel like typing his entire stat line, I’ve been busy lately. Anyone with a brain can see he has some incredible power, and despite the high strikeout rate, he would fit in perfectly as a power hitting right handed bat in our lineup.
Here are his stats:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerStats?statsId=8030
If you’d like to copy and past the “odd combination of numbers” I posted and then add some of your own, knock yourself out.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 23, 2009 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
freeman and a pitcher for reynolds…
anybody think the dbacks would bite on that?
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 23, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would hope they wouldn’t bite on that. I really really really like Freeman. Look at Reynolds 2008 season that is unacceptable with the amount of K’s. Now if he can KEEP hittin 35+ a season or 44 like he did this year then the K’s are tolerable but the K’s are NOT tolerable hittin 30 or fewer especially in the 200’s unless he has a huge OBP and AVG which is doubtful for him. I need to see more from Reynolds before i would wanna deal a mega spec for the guy.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 23, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’ve never known someone to say a .780 OPS, 28 HRs, and .340 wOBA unacceptable, those are some ridiculous standards you have there. No it’s not a good season compared to his other two seasons but unacceptable is a huge overstatement considering that’s above average for a MLB 3B
by McCann's the Man on Oct 23, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where would Reynolds play?
Hes horrible at 1B. And we kinda got Chipper holding down 3B for at least another year or two.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 23, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His 1B defense is based on a very small sample size, and I doubt Chipper ever plays 140+ games in a season again.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 23, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's based on a very small sample size
because he was so bad. The DBacks tried and tried to get him to adjust to 1B, but he couldn’t do it. Maybe with hard work in the offseason he could improve his defense, but who knows. Trust me on this man, the DBacks games are always on at my house and he was absolutely horrible.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 23, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol
fair enough.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 23, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think if you gave him an entire offseason with the knowledge that he would be playing first I think he could get to slightly below average
by McCann's the Man on Oct 23, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know to strike out that many times yeah thats unacceptable at least to deal a mega spec for him. Those numbers are fine fine even with the high strike outs if you dont have to give up a mega spec like Freeman but no way i deal Freeman for Reynolds. Unless i can see more of the 2009 version of Reynolds. I personally see Reynolds if he doesn’t get those K’s under control i can easily see a Frenchy comparison but think whatever you wanna think…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 23, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wasnt talking about the context of a trade just his performance
by McCann's the Man on Oct 23, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotcha, but i was mainly arguin about dealin a mega spec for Reynolds 2008 version, i know i said K’s but thats even worst him strikin out like he does i have serious concern for his future if he doesn’t get those K’s down. Thats why i would in no way deal a Freeman for Reynolds this offseason.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 23, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well reynolds is a young guy and will hit 30+ homers a year…i think we’d all be happy if freeman developed into that…so i dont see why you wouldn’t make that deal for a young guy thats all ready proven, opposed to hoping freeman pans out…plus, he’d be a great replacement for chipper and would make the middle of our lineup flat out scary
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 26, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude you just dont get what im talkin about sigh… Ok im gonna go really slow and to the point for you ok so listen carefully… My concern with Reynolds is that im not sold on him yet, i want to see multiple seasons like 2009 before im fully sold on him. His 2008 was not all that impressive. Im concerned with his plate discipline in the future. I think he might turn into a Frenchy comparison, i need to see more from Reynolds before im sold on him… Ok i went to the poin and as slow as i could go so thats why I wouldn’t do the deal, if you would then fine…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 26, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah your forgettin the Defense part as well, from what i have heard about Freeman is he is wayyyyy above average defensively, not so sure Reynolds could play 1B good enough defensively…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 26, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never once mentioned anything about 1B, you just kinda assumed that…and i’d take a year or two of less than spectacular D at 1B if he can hit 40 HR’s a year…then move to 3B where is pretty good defensively…he’s nothing like francouer…reynolds power numbers have done nothing but increase…
you mentioned your not sold on reynolds yet…and does that mean your sold on freeman? and if you see multiple seasons like this year of reynolds, your gonna need alot more than freddie freeman to get him
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 26, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention ryan howard struck out 200 times a couple seasons…but you dont see too many people complaining about that…
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 26, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok man first off key words i said is i wanna see more of him hittin 40 homers he only has ONE season of 40 homers, there is a such thing as bein skeptical, i would like to see more of the 2009 season, if he can hit like his 2009 season hey he would be a fine fine fine guy to get and i would do that deal Freeman for him but im just gonna have to see more from him before i say hell yes lets trade Freeman for him. And i NEVER once said he is like Frenchy i said he MIGHT cause of his plate discipline thats all i said i wanna see another season before i jump on the Reynolds bandwagon about dealin Freeman for him is all…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 26, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i feel ya but his power numbers have steadily gotten better over three years so yeah i guess im bein a little more optimistic…it’d be a real risk but i think if he puts up another season like this he might just be untouchable..but sure your goin out on a limb if you make this deal but if it did work out our lineup would be scary for many years to come
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 26, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point though. If he repeats his 2009 seson in 2010 then he would be pretty close to untouchable or at least it would take more than a Freeman to get him and he would be a scary edition to our lineup, so we dont know how this will play out i would just hate to see him puttin up 2008 seasons and seein Freeman as an above average 1B producin nicely for the D-Backs and we are stuck with a so-so player, gotta say tough decision either way.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 26, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no protection?
justin upton says hello.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Oct 24, 2009 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well reynolds is alot more proven that freeman…and reynolds power numbers have improved steadily since his rookie season…he’s young and just now entering his prime…i think that’d be a helluva deal..especially considering Chipper’s possible retirement…i mean he’s already become the hitter that freeman is “projected” to be so i dont see anything wrong with that deal at all
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 23, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
damnit, i really suck at this reply thing
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 23, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well obviously he is alot more proven that Freeman. Hell Gregor Blanco is more proven than Freeman in the majors lol. But anyway Freeman isn’t “projected” to hit 40+ bombs but his AVG, OBP are “projected” to be a good bit better along with not strikin out 200+ times a season and Freeman glove at 1B is above average with what people on here and scouts have said. I have NOOOOO idea about Reynolds D at 1B and no reason to do a deal just because Chipper may or may not retire to put him at 3B. Chipper could play another 3 seasons who knows. If Reynolds sucks it up at 1B defensively then yeah plenty is wrong with that deal.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 23, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s actually got much more power than Freeman is projected to develop. I think the Freeman comparison is as more of a Mark Grace type.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 23, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont think mark grace is accurate
even though his power didnt show this year, he could be a 30+ HR guy for us.
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Oct 23, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya, you prolly know more about it than I do
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 23, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he does
AT WORST: Freeman is Mark Grace
Grace was a smallish guy. Freeman is already 6’5".
I think a better comparison is Fred McGriff.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Oct 24, 2009 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Grace was a smallish guy. Freeman is already 6’5”."
Since when has 6’2" been considered a smallish guy???
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 24, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have heard his glove is above average at 1B as well, would you say Grace type Defensively or you have someone else in mind that he reminds you of defensively or do you know?
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 23, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The comp I’ve heard a bunch of times is Mark Grace with more power, which, from what I’ve seen, is incredibly accurate. Not sure he’s gonna crack 30, but 25 or so a year seems pretty likely.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 24, 2009 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does he remind you of Grace defensively or who you think he reminds you of defensively?
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 24, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s pretty outstanding at 1B, and if I remember correctly, Grace was pretty smooth over there too. I’d say the comp is about as close as it gets, with the added power.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 24, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow if he is as good as you say defensively at 1B and can hit more homers than Grace then WOW we have a potential monster then.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 24, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s very impressive. If it wasn’t for Heyward, he would easily be our best prospect. I have no idea how he lasted until the 2nd round.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 24, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well its like how the hell did Brandon Webb last til the 10th round and Albert Pujols to the 13th round??? I mean its crazy how some of these guys get through the cracks like that. Same with Piazza, Marcus Giles and many more its unbelievable.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 25, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or everyone’s fav 22nd rd pick tommy hanson
by McCann's the Man on Oct 25, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Different case for him though he was a draft and follow guy. Or however you say that so different case for him than the other guys though… but yeah i get your point though.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 25, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we are gonig to fantasize about getting a power hitter for the Braves.....
Can’t we all agree that there are more attractive players out there to fantasize about? I feel like it is late on a friday night and after having too much to drink we are squinting at the girl at the end of the bar…tilting our head to the left…then to the right….then leadning forward…then pulling back…trying to find that one angle that makes her look “good.”
You are can argue about whether you think Reynolds is “good” or “pretty” (to stay with the anology) but is Reynolds really the guy (or girl to stay analogous) you want to go home with?
I would argue….personal taste aside…he is not something the Braves would…nor should go after. Besides…should we be trading away our SP depth for a bat? Could we not be better served by going after bullpen help if we are not signing Gonzo and Soriano?
by calbers on Oct 24, 2009 12:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i don’t know which MLB you were watching last year, but Reynolds would have been a perfect 10. This is all pointless though because the D-Backs aren’t stupid enough to trade him unless the return is ridiculous
by McCann's the Man on Oct 24, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perfect 10?
Im a lil bit confused what you mean by sayin “but Reynolds would have been a perfect 10” comment. Are you sayin by that statement that he had one of the best seasons of anybody offensively? Maybe i totally missed what you meant by that, can you clarify for me?
And your right about they would want somethin ridiculous for him i cant blame them, but no team is stupid enough to give up a ridiculous amount for him either cause im sure the K’s scare other teams as well, im sure im not the only one that worries about his future plate discipline. He is gonna have to prove multiple seasons how truly good he is at least in my view. Maybe he can im not sayin he cant, but he will have to prove it thats for sure.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 24, 2009 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant as far as third baseman, which he was top 5 offensively and 3B had a really good year. I agree I’d be reluctant to value him as a superstar going forward but he was definitely a hell of an offensive player last year
by McCann's the Man on Oct 24, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed he was a hell of a 3B and offensive player last year, he was great. As long as he hits like that the K’s in my opinion are perfectly fine.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 24, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have had entirely too much to drink
and I think MArk Reynolds is gorgeous, but that is because he is one powerful gentleman… even more than this Captain <organ fellw.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 24, 2009 4:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next season is already looking good as Braves hater Steve Philips was fired by ESPN. He was having an affair with a 22 year old assistant.
by jack dein on Oct 25, 2009 9:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess he was takin care of business better with that 22 year old than when he was with the Mets i see ;)
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 25, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
there was a post on MLBTR about how the Royals should consider dealing Soria and it got me thinking.
Do you guys think they would take a package that is centered around Jordan Schafer and Kris Medlen?
i dont know their other needs but i know they need a CF’er and a young starter is never a bad thing to acquire.
by drumzalicious on Oct 26, 2009 4:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i know they need starting pitching, and if im correct i think soria and KK’s contracts are similiar…not sure though, i think they’d do it with KK and maybe another young arm…i still think schafer’s our CF of the future
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 26, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are gonna want more than KK and maybe another young arm thats for sure.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 26, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah maybe..i dont think our closer situation is bad enough to give away our future CF is all im sayin
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 26, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
could be if we lose Gonzo and Soriano…
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 26, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i mean.
Having a proven top 10 closer for well below market vaule for the next 5 years is a nice incentive to trade him.
Not to mention we still have McLouth.
by drumzalicious on Oct 26, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
could we convince them to take mcLouth instead...
I’d honestly rather move him than Schafer, and he’s been the main man for a crap club before.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 27, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s definatley a shutdown guy…but i like the core guys we got in atlanta now…maybe a few prospects would be enough, seems like the royals need that right now more than immediate help
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 27, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
