Braves 2009 Season In Review: Martin Prado
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 8:18 AM EDT
180 comments
Prior to the 2009 season, there was speculation that Martin Prado could perform well enough to replace Kelly Johnson as the Braves' starting second baseman. This speculation was based on the idea that Prado's presence could allow the Braves to trade Johnson, who had shown himself to be one of the better second basemen in the National League over the previous two seasons, to help fill other holes on the team. Well, Johnson wasn't traded, but his 2009 struggles coupled with Prado's breakout campaign, have firmly placed Prado as the Braves' new starting second baseman.
Coming off of a solid 2008 campaign as a reserve for Atlanta, Prado started the 2009 season in the same role, playing in just 12 games in the month of April, starting just 4 of those. But, like the year before, he excelled in limited time, hitting for a .350 average with a 1.035 OPS in just 23 plate appearances. Despite a precipitous dip in his numbers, dropping to a .208 average with a .653 OPS in 59 palte appearances, he garnered more playing time in May, starting 11 of the 19 games he played.
But June was the turning point of Prado's season, as he saw his numbers bounce back, hitting for a .359 average with a .921 OPS in 73 plate appearances, as he started in 16 of the 20 games he played that month. From that point on, he established himself as a regular in the Braves' lineup, starting 75 of the team's final 86 games.
One of the big questions about Prado was how he would handle playing regularly over the course of a full season, and a second half dip in his numbers show that he hasn't fully quelled those doubts. After hitting for a .330 averge along with a .889 OPS in 214 first half plate appearances, he fell to a .289 average and a .772 OPS in 289 second half plate appearances. The drop was aided by a concussion he suffered at the hands of a line drive that contributed to dizzyness and heat stroke in August, but even though his numbers dropped by huge amounts, .041 points on his average and .117 points on his OPS, his second half numbers were still good enough production out of a second baseman, and his total season numbers are very comperable to what Kelly Johnson produced out of that position for the team the previous two seasons.
The only real knock on Prado's 2009 season is that he was surprisingly bad as a third baseman. He had his lowest fielding percentage at any position at third, just .975, and in 127 plate appearances, a quarter of his season total, he hit just .231 with a woeful .590 OPS. But, the team isn't counting on him to play third, and as a second baseman he was outstanding, combining a solid .986 fielding percentage with a .331 average and a .913 OPS in 269 plate appearances.
Martin Prado certainly proved himself in 2009, coming to the plate nearly as many times as he had in his previous three Major League seasons combined and shifting fairly seamlessly from the role of a reserve to that of a starter. Since he's shown himself capable of providing equal production to former starting second baseman Kelly Johnson while only being paid the league minimum, he should allow the Braves to utilize the money they paid Johnson in 2009 on another spot on the diamond in 2010.
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I love the guy’s batting stance.
'Sugar ain't poison, but sugar will kill you. Too much of a good thing. Maybe not so sweet.'
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Oct 13, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love his intensity.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 13, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prado's UZR
has him as being better defensively at 3rd than 2nd, although just barely. I think we should keep them both though, because I think Johnson is gonna bounce back in 2010. I mean his BABIP was effing .249.
by blindsided789 on Oct 13, 2009 10:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
shhhh….don’t ruin it for them…this is their moment!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
open the job up in spring training, who ever wins it, wins it…prado and kelly will get alot of playing time anyway with prado playin some at 1B and 3B
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 10:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Prado had probably one of the hottest streaks that I have witnessed this past season.
He was Pujols-like from June – mid July!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 10:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No, Kelly Johnson is the only Brave who is streaky. Trust me. Except, he was just unlucky streaky this year. Prado was lucky streaky.
by acie4mvp on Oct 13, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Martin Prado rules. I also like Kelly Johnson.
Having a surplus of quality infielders is a good problem to have. I wonder how the Braves will address it, cause I don’t think platooning either one is a good idea. They both are starters in my book.
by Sparhawk on Oct 13, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Prado, Conrad, and Infante is more than enough 2B next year. Trade Kelly for a reliever. Don’t make the same mistake made last year with Francoeur in hoping for a better year from a guy who has been declining for several years. Let somebody else try to turn Kelly’s career around and get something for him while there is still reason for other teams to be interested in him.
by redwards95 on Oct 13, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m starting to come around to this idear. And if we could move Lowe, it would be a move (for me) of Frenchy-like proportions. I mean hell, he notched like 15 wins. Hopefully we’ll be smart about this and move him based on that alone.
'Sugar ain't poison, but sugar will kill you. Too much of a good thing. Maybe not so sweet.'
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Oct 13, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean hell, he notched like 15winswomen
by acie4mvp on Oct 13, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has no trade value right now…and he hasn’t been declining for several years..he was on his way to becoming a damn good 2B and he slumped for half a year…but hell i guess you rather have a some low value AAA bullpen pitcher instead cause thats all he’d bring you right now
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This will be my only comment on this topic, as I don’t want to get into again:
Show me how KJ has been declining over several years???
Show me how Conrad should be considered a viable option at all for our ML roster, let alone as a potential 2B.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too late
you are into it again. Unfortunately, I can see the organization non-tendering KJ…
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 13, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe in Wren enough that I don’t think he would do that.
by acie4mvp on Oct 13, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude it comes down to more than jus KJ potential, if he gets non-tendered or traded for a spec or whatever then it came down to money issue plain and simple not his potential and if he can rebound or not.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Cox axed Connie’s confidence and screwed the Braves by hanging onto that waste of space, Norton. I think if Conrad had stayed on, he would have put up good numbers.
'Sugar ain't poison, but sugar will kill you. Too much of a good thing. Maybe not so sweet.'
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Oct 13, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
everybody is so caught up with Prado that they ignore the other facts that should be looked at…Prado has only had around 700 ABs, kelly around 1700 ABs, are you saying that Prado will not slump at all when he starts racking up ABs…i mean hell, Francouer tore it up in his first 1000 or so ABs and everybody jumped on that bandwagon. dont write of somebody who is already PROVEN just for a guys who barely has a full season worth of AB’s
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AMEN!
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Oct 13, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will you marry me?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if you only get another decent season out of him and he goes to crap in 2011, you’re still not paying him anything and you can replace him with somebody else cheap. The point is, second base is not where you need to spend money, you find decent defense and a decent number 2 or number 8 hitter, and put your money into finding a left fielder or a first baseman to hit in the middle of the lineup.
As far as the ABs comparison to Francoeur, well, for those first 1000 ABs he seemed like a proven guy too. They already made the mistake of tying up money in a guy who wasn’t producing with Francoeur, when you have an obvious replacement for Johnson who doesn’t cost, why tie up the money on Johnson?
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a great point. But, it brings up another question in my mind:
Is it better to keep the talent to yourself and spend the money rather than letting the talent go somewhere else – like within the division.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If money is no object, then yes, it is. But it is an object and there are much bigger holes on the team.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get that, but it isn’t like the guy will be making $15M or heck, even $5M…he is getting, what, $4M max?
It seems pretty affordable to me, but then again, some people have accused me of being a KJ supporter!
:)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We dont have Cub, Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers money. We already owe alot to alot of guys. $4 million or $3.5 million is alot of money when we have other needs.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
$3.5M is nothing compared to the $100M budget. It isn’t like we are the Marlins and have a $8M payroll.
We are one of the highest paying teams out there.
What other needs do we have that can’t be filled internally? All I can think of is 1B, but even Prado is capable of playing there for virtually nothing. Resigning LaRoche shouldn’t be too big of a problem. The BP holes can all be filled internally, the OF is solid.
I don’t get where we need to save the money to plug in another hole somewhere.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
our payroll from 04-07 was under 90M, and in 08 it was 102M (althought with Hampton’s its not really fair to say that) in 09 it was 96M…i dont think we are one of the highest paying teams out there tho.
as a matter of fact I think we are 12th this year in highest payroll… hardly one of the highest.. Most teams range from 65-120M the outliers being the Yankees, Rays, Marlins, and Mets
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
12th is still one of the highest, but this is heading down semantics blvd and I don’t want to go to that neighborhood.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well 65-120M is an awful large range for comparison..
its safe to say were on average in the upper 1/3 or payroll..so we do have money
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fwiw, there were 12 teams with a payroll of 96M or more…the next after that was 88M.
If you devide it into thirds, you have a 96M – 201M range (11 teams – top third), followed by a 70-88M range (9 teams) and then a 36-68M range (the remaining 10 teams).
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my math sucks – the top third has 12 teams, the middle third 9 and the bottom 9.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then they really arent thirds, now are they Justin
:)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn you…tiers then. 3 tiers.
:)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
god, how ’bout you do a little research before you post next time!
We are 11th not 12th!!!
:)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i knew there was another team with 96 and i didn’t bother to see if they had more or less, i just assumed the facts would support my argument
i still think its a stretch to put us as one of the highest payrolls in baseball
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you wouldn’t devote 5% of your payroll to a guy who plays good defense and gets a solid amount of bats at the level he already has shown he can do? i agree that you don’t spend a lot on 2B. and i would agree with your point if Prado was more proven. but we will have a helluva hole in our line up if we let kelly go and prado flames out. then wren would be paying twice kelly’s salary to have him back.
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then wren would be willing to pay**
my bad
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think thats a chance Wren may be willing to take. Cause you gotta look at it this way as well: What if we bring back KJ and could have used that money elsewhere he has the same first half he had last year and sucks and Prado is rakin again? I mean either could happen and if that happens that $3+ million wasted. This will be a tough decision for Wren it wont be easy at all but i think we can use KJ and Church $6+ million combined and then the 2.5M that GA got so thats close to $10 million that we can really do somethin with.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, excellent point. And justincredubil02 and Hcgadawgs, you guys are still talking like it’s last off season. Sure, before 09, moving KJ to make Prado the starter didn’t sound like the best option, KJ was coming off 2 good years and Prado was very unproven. But Prado has a full season worth of successful ABs and Kelly is coming off of a poor season. Is Kelly proven? I guess, but so was Marcus Giles. He had more good seasons behind him than KJ and his last season with the Braves was better than KJ’s 2009. He was let go because they had a cheaper option they believed could perform just as well. And where is Giles now? Completely out of baseball. Sure, KJ could just be in a career downturn, but he could also be done, and when you look at it the way that rockybull just pointed out, that moving him along with some other moves creates some real money to use in areas that are far more uncertain than 2B, worrying about Johnson’s potential becomes moot.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Color me skeptical that Prado’s 700 career ABs are enough to bank on. His struggles from mid-july through September should be enough of a concern to at least encourage some competition at 2B during spring training 2010.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m warming to Prado. BUT, I’m not sold yet and I’m still looking at this .741 OPS in 1265 AB in his minor league career and asking myself is he really this good? Is he close to this good? He seems to be genuinely improving but there is no one behind him if we trade Kelly and Prado returns to the player he always has been. I’m starting to believe Prado is an everyday player but I think Kelly is better at his best and at 27, he should be entering his prime years.
I just keep thinking we could platoon Kelly in left with Matt Diaz to start the season and maintain the depth that we will likely need when Chipper goes down. Chances are good that Kelly will play decent ball again and in that case he would have decent trade value. Seems like a reasonable gamble for 4 million. I certainly like that better than 2.5 mil to Garrett Anderson to have less upside and versatility.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Oct 13, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but KJ doesnt hit righties. he killed LHP this year but couldnt touch righties.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 13, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly’s OPS splits through the years
vs RHP vs LHP
2005 .731 .731
2007 .858 .771
2008 .793 .800
2009 .595 .968
Even in his minor league career, he posted .120 OPS pts higher vs RHP as opposed to LHP. 2009 sure looks like an outlier value in the data set.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Oct 13, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly at 27 is entering his prime after an off year, but Marteen at 26 after raking for a 2d consecutive year is about to regress?
Seems utterly illogical to me.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seems utterly illogical that you consider a couple months of slumping and then a couple months of raking a reason to give up on a great player
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sigh...
It wasn’t just a couple months KJ slumped this year. In 2008 he slumped for 3 months as well. I remember a stat from June 3rd to like September 3rd and it was putrid downright awful numbers durin that span. So im so damn tired of people forgettin that and actin like this is the first time this year that he has struggled. KJ looks like Utley for about 3 months then the other 3 months looks about like Brooks Conrad maybe slightly better. I like KJ i just HATE his inconsistency. If it was just this year then you guys have a great point but he did this last year as well and if i do enough diggin i might find a similar trend in 2007 but i haven’t looked so im not sure about 2007 though.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utterly illogical?
Are you referring to the fact that the sample size of success for Kelly is much, much larger than the small sample size of Prado’s success? So, yes its much more logical to think that the player with the higher OPS over 4422 (Kelly) and 2987 (Prado) professional PA’s will continue to post a higher OPS moving forward. Those sample sizes 4422 and 2987 are large enough to evaluate and noise is not an issue. However, that half season your referencing is highly volatile and not a good indicator of future success.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Oct 13, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or you could consider their actual performance as major leaguers
(hardly an irrelevant thing):
Prado: 868 PAs .307 AVG .811 OPS 79 XBHs (1 per 10.98 PAs)
Johnson: 1902 PAs .264 AVG .776 OPS 164 XBHs (1 per 11.61 PAs)
I really like Kelly Johnson as a talented, athletic, multi-dimensional player. And always have.
But I find you Kelly fanatics downright comical in straining to exagerate his astoundingly amazing awesomeness.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I find you Kelly fanatics downright comical in straining to exagerate his astoundingly amazing awesomeness.
You know, pretty much this entire KJ vs Prado thing can be flip-flopped…I can say everything about Prado that anyone says about KJ and the supporters of each…the one thing that Prado supporters can’t say that KJ supporters have is that KJ has succeeded for a longer period of time and isn’t riding 1 month’s worth of incredible plate appearances.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
. . . .
your right, KJ is riding 2 amazing months of Plate Appearances a year for the last two years
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, insofar as the career numbers of Prado include 258 games and 868 PAs, for you – as the self-designated Kelly fanatic in chief – to call him a one month wonder simply further proves my point.
You can and have flip-flopped and argued yourself silly, and I have no doubt at all that you will continue to do so. Congrats.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cool…except I have never once said Prado was a bad player or that he is a one-month wonder…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are just being disingenuous now. Do you seriously deny asserting that Prado’s claim to being a ML regular amounts to “riding 1 month’s worth of incredible plate appearances”? — as opposed to, for instance, the facts that he just put up an .822 OPS (in 503 PAs) after the ‘08 season’s .838 (in 254 PAs).
To be fair and balanced, Kelly’s plate production in ’07 and ’08 was close to comparable (in a total of 1222 PAs), but it was nowhere close in ’09. In short, he was a disappointment.
Again, I really, really like Kelly, believe he brings alot to the table and agree there is ample reason to think he should bounceback in ’10. He is, however, very likely caught in a financial numbers game. That is unfortunately the overriding reality.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you seriously denying the fact that without Prado’s incredibly torrid month of insane hitting that KJ would not have gotten his starting spot back?
Prado’s June-July-ish numbers made him the starting 2B on the Atlanta Braves. To deny that is just ignorant.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously Prado breakin out like that and KJ bein putrid and on the DL gave Prado his chance. Remember Quilvio Veras the little speedy 2B that we got from the Padres that just never really panned out for us cause of injury or whatever. Well remember a guy named Marcus Giles??? Yeah well the guy showed he could play and Veras was hurt and I think on the DL and Giles came up showed he could play and the Braves had a decision to make. Send down Giles back to the minors OR release Veras, they chose to release Veras.
Now what does all of that mean exactly? Well KJ was putrid this year, Prado was red hot DESERVED a shot at starting and he got the job and he took advantage of it kudos to Prado. When your talkin about payroll and everything and someone is not playin better than the cheaper guy and is older than the cheaper guy well he might find his ass gone or on the pine. Im happy for Prado he took advantage of a situation and didn’t dissappoint.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have never denied any of that. Prado was the better player this season, and was the hot bat. You have to go with him in that situation. Ride that streak until it is over…it fizzled out in late July and showed flashes of life again in September. That is why we should keep both and let them battle it out in Spring Training.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please don’t call anyone “boy”.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps you should also refrain from using phrases like “utterly illogical” also.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Oct 13, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why? It’s fandave. He has the right to say whatever he wants…I wish I had that luxury.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps. Except when it is.
Consider this:
During the last two seasons, Prado has posted an aggregate batting average of .311 (with above average XBH power) – which is better than all but 10 players in MLB with an equal or greater number of ABs:
Pujols, Mauer, Sandoval, Icherio, Hanley R., Holiday, Jeter, Ordonez, Manny R. and Chipper.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sir, arrogance is a vice. Your presenting an opinion, not a fact.
Here’s what it boils down to. Prado has one above average tool; he can hit for average. His defense and ability to draw walks are pedestrian.
His XBH power is the question. Half of his XBH (12 of 24) in 2008 came in one month, in which he had a freak .484 BABIP.
Again in 2009, nearly half of his XBH’s came in two months of .350+ BABIP.
Basically, the majority of his XBH’s come in months of high BABIP. And his BABIP is about .030 pts higher than what his minor league track record suggests he should post in major league equivalency.
My issue is if his luck returns to his baseline, which should be around .300 based on his minor league career, from .330 will he be worth a shit?
I’m well aware that BABIP for hitters is different from pitchers in that is more based on individual baseline. But, Prado’s baseline thus far in his Major League career is inconsistent with his minor league career.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Oct 13, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
happened to see just part of an interesting piece this am on one of the network morning shows – had to do, I think, with the Yankees’ program for young Latin American players. the point was made that these players who are signed into professional baseball academy programs at very young ages, frequently 16 -17, have grown up in impoverished third world conditions, with poor nutrition, little education, etc., can not speak any english, frequently can’t even read spanish, and without alot of socialization and support in basic life skills have no capacity to function in modernday US culture and indeed have to be helped along with actually growing into law-abiding adult citizenship.
my point is that for you to put too much stock in Prado’s “minor league career” is not necessarily very impressive to me – although I also acknowledge you may be partially correct as to some of your points.
I am a highly educated 50 something year old professional and deal with serious issues day in and out.. I apologize if I come across as arrogant. that is not at all a good thing and not my intent. sorry.
by fandave on Oct 14, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now your comparing prado to pujols, manny, and mauer…WOW
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 14, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not comparing in any way.
merely stating objective facts.
facts are facts.
by fandave on Oct 14, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i get you but those facts are very misleading..particularly because of the number of AB’s
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 14, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ABs are the variable, but its not misleading. No.1: There are no other players in MLB with a comparable number of ABs the last 2 years with a higher batting average*. No. 2: All other players with an equal or higher average have been in the lineup on an everyday basis and thus have many more ABs.
- I didn’t go to the next step of analysis, looking for how many were even close, but I’m thinking the answer is none or only a few.
by fandave on Oct 15, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow…way to take the high road on that one.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was actually intended as a big bully kinda sorta joke.
you know … oh yeah! take it back or I’ll reach through the computer screen and punch you in the nose!
not well played, however.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah...
got it…my bad for taking it literally.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly in LF is actually a really interesting idea if he has the arm strength for it still. During his rookie season in LF he posted a UZR/150 of like 14 iirc, which is insanely good so while his bat doesn’t quite play as average out there he’s an amazing defender and should be able to hold us over until one of Schafer/Heyward is ready to join the club
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
idk if kelly would do that, i think he’s at the point in his career where he wants to settle down in one postion, who knows though
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
Play LF or Unemployment…? Unless KJ is severely retarded, or has an ego the size of FYF, I think he’ll choose LF. I think he’s aware that he doesn’t have a lot of leverage. Just my opinion, though.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Oct 13, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and he will, but it most likely will not be with the Braves.
of course, if he continues to hit at a .224 clip, he may be out of professional baseball in another couple of years.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great crystal ball there you have bro.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, considering that the number he put up this year in an injury-influenced half-season is about 50-60 points below his career average, and that his BaBIP inexplicably fell nearly 100 points off of his career average, it really doesn’t take a crystal ball to see that this half season (not even that, really…about 200 ABs) are the anomaly and not the norm.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but who knows what happens in a couple years though. Giles it was just a couple years and he was out of baseball so to sit there and say no he wont be is absurd just like sayin Yes he will be is equally absurd. I was just maken a point that who knows what will happen.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But the ease with which he finds employment will depend on his asking price and/or his positional flexibility.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Oct 13, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
The team was doing well without Kelly Johnson. We cant afford to deal with KJ and his streaky offense. Every year KJ goes through extended slumps and we dont have a strong enough offense to carry a player that slumps that bad.
you guys talk about how great of a year KJ had in 2008 but those numbers are skewed.
March .333 .333 .333
April .235 .323 .407
May .355 .392 .581
June 250 .353 .370
July .224 .306 .355
August .237 .276 .301
September .398 .429 .643
I mean Seriously??? Prado had a slump that was a by-product of personal issues and a concussion, whats KJ’s excuse?
Want More? How about his 2007 Numbers that were “So Great”
April .326 .473 .593
May .259 .322 .426
June .256 .356 .360
July .356 .427 .658
August .269 .382 .452
September .200 .282 .267
I mean come on, you guys talk like he is someone who puts up some sort of offense that cant be replaced at a cheaper cost.
Outside of Prado’s line of .208/.276/.377 in May he had similar numbers to KJ at a fraction of the cost.
Please leave this alone.
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salary aside, Prado’s stats are just as skewed by streaky hitting this season.
For the money, Prado is the answer. If money isn’t a concern (and I don’t think it is NEARLY the concern that a lot of people around here seem to think it is), KJ has more upside and is an overall better player.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was one point at the beginning of the season where Prado’s slump was a horrendous outside of that his numbers did not dip into the KJ range.
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mid July – September beg to differ.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
July .327/.392/.467/.859
August – .291/.308/430/.738
September – .284/.327/.451/.778
When KJ isn’t on a hot streak he generally hits in the .250/.350/.380 Range.
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You see, this is what I am talking about. Early July was so outrageous for Prado, that it boosts his numbers an insane amount.
Let’s look at the time-period I mentioned (Mid-July – Sept..actually, it is 25 July, so late July – Sept.)
227 .253 .312 .565 – This is Prado’s line for 37 games and 166 PAs.
Compared to KJs infamous slump of 2009:
214 .286 .359 .645 – This was good for 57 games and 263 PAs.
Gosh, I swore I wouldn’t get into this again…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
i would rather have a guy slump like that for 37 games where at least half were because of an injury than to slump for 57 games and 100 more PA’s.
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, heat-stress related injuries affect a batter’s ability to hit way more than a wrist injury.
The injury card is getting really old now.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he apparently had a concussion… those thigns are to be toyed with…
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
May .355 .392 .581
September .398 .429 .643
And these numbers weren’t soooo outrages in 2008 for KJ and didn’t make his overall numbers look better than they actually are?
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody ever said they didn’t. See, that is the difference between you and me. I can recognize that KJ has weaknesses and strengths…apparently, all you guys see, or rather, WANT to see, are Prado’s strengths.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“You see, this is what I am talking about. Early July was so outrageous for Prado, that it boosts his numbers an insane amount.”
Dude when you said that and then picked away at Prado what you want me to think man? Seemed to me you were only taken away credit from Prado and actin like his great numbers he put up in other months is why his overall looks as good as it did. Well you can say the same for KJ in 2008 as well.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"For the money, Prado is the answer."
This. It’s not a matter of who’s more talented or has better upside. Prado is much cheaper and he’s shown himself to be right around league-average both offensively and defensively. That’s why I would choose Prado, and I think the Braves will do the same. It has nothing to do with irrational love for Prado or hatred for KJ.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Oct 13, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for you and me, sure…for some others around here, I don’t know about that…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have said countless times that i dont hate KJ, but by the time you mention payroll Prado is just flat out the better option. I have only seen a few people(2 or 3) on this site actually seem like KJ haters, the rest have been like me, Cbwilk, buzzdeadwax, fandave and others just like us. Somehow some of you KJ supporters have it in your head that everyone is out to get KJ which just isn’t true.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I wish Ted Turner was still the owner or some other seriously rich, win-at-any-cost entrepreneurial major dude was the owner, and the Braves were bidding head-to-head with the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Angels, the Mets and everybody else for the top free agents and having the most talented, top to bottom 25 man roster in MLB.
Alternatively, I wish we could at least flex up to $110-120 M, keep all 6 starting pitchers, the back of the bullpen, Rochey and Kelly, and go get the best RH power hitter money could buy.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, when half the comments call for non-tendering the better player due to 200-ish ABs in an injury plagued season, and others are saying “KJ sucks” etc, it isn’t a big limb that I step out on.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he should be non tendered as well, it doesn’t make me a KJ hater, it comes down to money is the reason i say it, or at least trade him for a spec somethin but like i said it comes down to money. Maybe we have more money than i think, im not sure but we will soon find out cause i doubt Wren non tenders or trades him for nothin much if we have plenty of money to spend so we will see.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is...
I have no confidence in Kelly Johnson and his strikeouts. I have much more confidence that Prado will continue to get better, and play with at least as much, if not more, intensity.
I also think Yunel likes have Prado next to him, moreso than KJ, which can equate to better defense overall, imo.
by Audi on Oct 14, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and there's also KJ's..
…errors. Thanks and good night.
by Audi on Oct 14, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Errors
Prado had 7 errors this season. SEVEN. In 133 games. How many did KJ have in his meager 84 games (mostly pinch hitting)? Oh..10.
by Audi on Oct 14, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when one has a wrist injury and plays in IF position, i would imagine that it would be quite hard to play good defense.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 14, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess Prado’s limited suits you more…fine. I’ll take the range w/ the errors any day though.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 14, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, KJ’s strikeouts…what is his K rate compared to the average MLB 2B?
Wait, why am I asking this…you obviously don’t know.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 14, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
definitely confusing decline with statistical anamoly
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is pointless…might as well tear down the henry aaron statue at the Ted and replace it with Prado and retire his number now, because by god he hit .300 for what is equivalent to a year and a half…lets just go ahead and put everything into him and make him the face of the franchise
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you might as well do the same but do it with KJ cause he has SOOOOOOOOOOOO much experience and sooooooooooooooooo much potential left that no way will he not be the greatest 2B in the game…… cause he had 2 good seasons for a 2B(other than 3 months in the 08 season but lets ignore that his final stats looked great)…….. and that tells everything about a player……..
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds good. i’ll start coming up with the design…i was thinkin’ maybe one of him ranging to the right and making a diving stop, or maybe him mid-homerun trot…it’d look great somewhere in the concourse…might even get a mini-travel size replica made for Prado put in his suitcase and worship every night…everyone needs something to aspire to
:)
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do realize that Prado had a bad stretch this season too, right? Harping on KJ’s bad stretch does nothing to substantiate Prado playing over him.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
look at my post above
KJ consistently has EXTENDED bad stretches. Prado’s bad stretch was related to an injury. I guess KJ was injured in all of his slumps the last few years as well
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about 2007 and 2008, but KJ certainly was hampered by an injury this season.
I bet you don’t realize that Prado’s injury-excused slump was just as bad as KJ’s slump this season…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but um
what about 07 and 08? what were those KJ slumps a product of?
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I. Don’t. Know.
What were Prados 2,000+ minor league ABs a result of?
DId he magically turn the switch in 700 ML plate appearances?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow.
there are tons of cases of a player that has been hot in the Minors becoming a flop in the majors and visa versa.
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The professional talent evaluators in the Atlanta Braves organization (very possibly the best in MLB) certainly seem to have been favorably impressed with his development.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so much so that they gave him the starting job in the spring of 2009…wait.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
more like
so much so that they didnt make to many complaints about it being taken away from him either.
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you back that up? Or did you just not hear anything publicly? I’m guessing the latter.
by acie4mvp on Oct 13, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, so much so Kelly is about to be non-tendered.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of crystal balls…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t.
This is a prediction based on the financial constraints and the other, more urgent needs of the team. It is not my hope or preference.
Both of these points I have made probably 3 times apiece in this thread alone.
by fandave on Oct 14, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be very much of a surprise if the Braves paid to keep Kelly on the team. A trade or, more likely, a non-tender seems to be in the offing.
Note that this prediction is based on financial realities, rather than Kelly’s talent or potential to make a very positive on the field contribution to the team’s success.
by fandave on Oct 13, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Regardless of KJ's possible re-surrgance
He is getting paid quite a bit more than Prado. For that reason alone the F.O. will most likely trade him or just non-tender him. Numbers aside this is prob the MAIN reason Prado will be our starting 2B.
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that may be so..i just think 4 mil (or however much he’s gonna make) is not too much for a proven guy with even more potential..but if it is Prado i hope he does a helluva job, i’d just hate to see KJ go out and do it with some other team because they gave him a shot
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 13, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He might find a hitting coach that actually teaches him something….
'Sugar ain't poison, but sugar will kill you. Too much of a good thing. Maybe not so sweet.'
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Oct 13, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even still
Unless KJ puts up 30 HR’s and 100 RBI’s im not going to miss him to much, we were obviously winning with out him and we can continue to do so.
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, you could say that about Maddux too…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As could any team say about a certain player
But the fact still remains we were doing fine with out him and we have other needs and Prado is good enough to hold down the starting job
by drumzalicious on Oct 13, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until we make a move to get a good 1B under contract Prado has to be seen as our starting 1B next season, and considering that LaRoche is the only good FA 1B out there, I wouldn’t be shocked if we end up going in to the season with Prado at 1B and KJ at 2B.
by Lennox on Oct 13, 2009 12:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The outfield would have to be pretty damn powerful to make up for that weak infield. There wouldn’t be one of them that would hit over 20 HR. You need at least one power bat, either at first or third.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Oct 13, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heyward will hit 50 HRs to make up for it!
:)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but what will he do after the allstar break?
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lmao
+ 1
- I miss Spooneybarger :(
by Mighty Healthy on Oct 13, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
EVERYONE
Join Marteeeny’s Weeenys! Its the totally un-official fan club for Martin Prado. We all ♥ Marteeen and we all want him to start at 2B in 2010!
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 13, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The only real knock on Prado’s 2009 season is that he was surprisingly bad as a third baseman. He had his lowest fielding percentage at any position at third, just .975
Dude, fielding percentage? Why? Prado was extremely good at 3B. Plus/minus has him saving 6 runs at 3B in only 266 defensive innings and his UZR/150 was even better—7.9.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Oct 13, 2009 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
do u have the +/- for 2B… im just interested to see where he stacks up next to KJ
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+/-
Prado was -3 runs in 513 and 1/3 innings at 2B.
KJ was -2 runs in 655 and 2/3 innings at 2B.
From what I gather, they’re about the same at 2B, both only slightly below average. Kelly Johnson has much better range but KJ makes a ton of stupid misplays. Prado used to make just as many—if not more—misplays, making him a much worse defensive 2B, but got a lot better this season and largely cut the misplays out of his game.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Oct 13, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude not everybody buys into the UZR. Im sceptical of it, anything that has Yunel Escobar as a bad defensive SS or negative at that position its somethin not totally right about it even when sometimes Escobar would make a head scratchin play.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
except the first half of the season he was pretty bad at SS, he was throwing the ball all over the place and not getting to balls in the hole, mainly due to injury but UZR isn’t going to give him a pass for that. He was at -11 at one point in the season, about 2.5 months in if i recall correctly, and finished at -2.6. That means he was playing excellent defense the second half of the season, injury free part of the season.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because I’m dumb. I fully admit that was a terrible way to look at things. I was trying to make a point about how bad his offense was in the games he played third and added that without really thinking about how I would get blasted for not using that new fangled UZR stuff. My bad.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol…cbwilk with his best Bisher impression!
:)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what its worth
Which isn’t much. Prado ranked 5th on the ESPN end of the year roundup of web gems.
That was 5th in all of baseball at any position.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Oct 13, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
*clarification*
They added up all the web gems (getting a 5th place gem on any night is 1 point, getting the #1 gem is 5 points etc..) and Prado had the 5th most points based off of this formula by the end of the year.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Oct 13, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What it’s worth is absolutely nothing. Most of the time web gems are a result of a guy lacking range so he has to make up for it with a great dive or something similar. Yes good defenders make web gems but it’s hardly a qualification or signifies good defense
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes i have a prejudice against torii and his allegedly great defense
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know the guy is great at the jump at the wall and gets himself on sportscenter all the time but most overrated defender of all time quite possibly. And to think people used to wonder if Andruw or Torii was the better glove man
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THIS A MILLION TIMES… i’ve been saying it for years… Torii is crazy athletic, but he gets poor jumps on balls and occasionally makes bad reads… hence all the diving catches
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Edmonds vehemently disagrees!
- I miss Spooneybarger :(
by Mighty Healthy on Oct 13, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are entertainers are they not? Edmonds certainly entertained. I have nothing against the dives and spectacular grabs off the wall.
Just so long as they actually make the play.
by Sparhawk on Oct 13, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one is debating that diving plays are awesome…whats up for debate is that diving plays do not make you a good defender… making plays makes you a good defender
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess this is now considered the Prado vs. KJ rosterbation thread huh??? Your good at puttin up rosterbation threads CB, hmmmm…. is there somethin you wanna tell us :)
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a knack, that’s for sure. I just think as long as it’s kept in the home it’s not really harming anyone.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya hear that talking chop …. no rosterbation outside your mom’s basement
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can anybody who wants KJ gone prove that streakiness is related to winning and losing? I’ve read in multiple places, though unfortunately I couldn’t find them if you ask (that’s why i’m asking you all), that there is no definite correlation between a player being streaky a la KJ and his team losing a higher percentage of games. Since that seems to be the main point you all bring up against him I just would like to know if his streakiness actually hurts the team or if it’s just an argument everyone is desperately clinging to
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 7:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For me it’s just annoying. There are plenty of other arguments for Prado over KJ in 2010, but not matter more than the money issue. Everything else is academic.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not even bringing the starting position into question. Prado has earned the starting job over Kelly going into next season, beyond that who knows. But I’d honestly like to know if being streaky leads to more losses because from the little I’ve seen/heard it doesn’t which makes the streakiness argument almost a personal vendetta against the guy. Yeah it’s really freaking annoying to see him hit like .220 for an entire month but in the grand scheme of things as long as it evens out in the end, does it matter?
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s gonna take somebody more inclined toward stats than me to figure out. My guess would be that there’s a correlation, but not that it’s necessarily causational.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
again this is all second hand and conjecture, but i have heard that there is no correlation betwen winning and streakiness…but i like McCann’s the Man have nothing to back that up.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 13, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is my position – the streakiness doesn’t affect anything in terms of winning and losing, and if, even with his extreme streakiness, he lands among the top 3 offensive 2B in the NL, I’ll take it.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 13, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think you had to reply and say that cause i think we all know your stance on it especially when it comes to KJ ;)
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Errors
KJ with 10 errors in 84 games (mostly PH, I believe).
Prado with 7 in 133 Games.
’Nuff said.
by Audi on Oct 14, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fail.
’Nuff said.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Oct 14, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since I have no set opinion on this issue, one way or the other, and am neither down with nor up on the new wave fielding metrics, I have checked it out as follows:
Johnson @ 2B (‘09 season): 655.2 innings 367 total chances (.56/inning) .973 fielding %
Prado @ 2B (’09 season) : 513.1 innings 282 total chances (.55/inning) .986 fielding %
Johnson @ 2B (‘08 season): 1198.2 innings 701 total chances (.585/inning) .980 fielding %
Prado @ 2B (’08 season) : 142.0 innings 91 total chances (.64/inning) .967 fielding %
My conclusions: Johnson’s sample size is almost triple that of Prado’s; Johnson may have somewhat more range; and their error rates look very comparable.
by fandave on Oct 14, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too small of sample size for Prado at 2B to know how good he will be in the future. Thats what another member said which i agree with. 2010 we can tell more of how good or how bad he is at 2B defensively i figure he will be the starter full time there. I know you didn’t say he was bad or good i was just sayin cause people keep sayin Prado is a terrible defensive 2B and that KJ is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy superior, they cannot say that cause too small of a sample size to know for sure.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 14, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t disagree with the relatively small sample size and the don’t know for sure part.
We have at him at 2B only the equivalent of about 63 games in the last two years – which is surprising to me as I would have thought it would be more.
But the available data certainly (to me) appears to suggest there ain’t much difference defensively
by fandave on Oct 15, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Oct 15, 2009 8:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hes great
Martin Prado really proved himself this season and i hope he will be in the braves organization for a while. If we keep Laroche than we have a good thing coming next season. Yunel Escobar was the most consistent hitter. Chipper Jones, of course, will come back and have a decent season. I would say .300 or more average and about 20 or more homeruns and if Prado and Mclouth get on base more, which i guarantee they will, he will have about 90 or more RBIs. Now the only thing i think we should improve on is our defense cuz alot of games were lost cuz of defense. we have an awesome infield. all we need is a power hitting left fielder, i suggest matt holliday. any agreements with what i said?? this is my first comment
by Bravesfan19 on Oct 15, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i know what your saying, but dont think its safe to assume so many things…like chip bouncing back and mclouth and prado gettin on base more, though i hope it happens..
i also think we should resign laroche…but if we did that it would have to most likely be diaz in left field because holliday, or bay, or any other big bat isn’t gonna be cheap…the only shot we would have a power hitting left fielder and laroche would be to get rid of lowe..which may be tough
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 15, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prado was beaned not once, but twice by line drives this year in BP by KJ and had to miss games because of it.
Anyone know KJ’s stats in those games?
;-)
by NCChopper on Oct 15, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I dont remember but if i remember correctly when Prado was out i think in August cause of dizziness i think KJ went like 0-14 or somethin maybe worst than that when he was startin lol.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 15, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To hcgadawgs
The thing i said about chip was something i hope he would do. I forgot to add that. I think prado will have an awesome season but i gotta see it to believe it. Mclouth might have a decent season for his standards. I hope atleast a .280 average but like i said i gotta see it to believe it. I hope vasquez isnt traded. Ive been hearing those rumors on the articles on the braves website. Lowe should be traded. Traded for a power outfielder. Can anyone tell me the power outfielders available?
by Bravesfan19 on Oct 15, 2009 8:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
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