Rosterbate Here And Only Here
by cbwilk on Oct 1, 2009 11:26 AM EDT
386 comments
The Braves haven't been eliminated from the playoff yet, nor has the season finished, but the overexcited among up can't wait to start the rosterbation. So, to keep the clutter on the site to a minimum, we're going to go back the the old rosterbation thread. Please use this thread, and this thread only, for all of your rosterbatory needs. Any unnecessary rosturbation fan posts will be deleted. Please reccomend this post so that it stays at the top of the sidebar. Thank you.
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Mr. Sanchez's deleted fan post:
With the year over, can 2010 rosterbation begin?
Tiny by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 7:23 AM PDT Comment 8 comments
McCann/Ross at C
KJ or Prado at 2B in all likelihood (one may be traded)
Esco at SS
Chipper at 3B
Heyward gets every chance to win the job in spring training in RF
McLouth or Schafer in CF
If Schafer wins CF, then McLouth in LF, if not then Diaz or Church here
Bench—Ross, Infante, Diaz or Church as 4th OF (do we use these two to delay either Schafer or Heyward in arb eligibility by leaving them in AAA until May/June?), and you assume they can fill the rest with Canizares, Conrad, Brandon Jones or Gregor Blanco, maybe Prado if KJ is kept around or they sign someone like Figgins, but the bench looks well covered for next year.
The only question in the lineup is perhaps making a move to improve at leadoff (is McLouth or Schafer really the answer?), and of course 1B. Possible options at 1B—LaRoche, Derosa, Delgado, Canizares or Prado if they go real cheap, Paul Konerko or Prince Fielder in a trade, and many others.
The pitching staff seems pretty sound. If we don’t get a good enough offer, there is no reason to think we can be as lucky with the healthy starting pitching two years in a row. The options here have been discussed pretty extensively around here, but it looks like either someone offers us a premium price for a starter or we go into next year working on extensions for Hudson and Vasquez to go with Hanson, Jurrjens, Lowe, and Kawakami. If trade or injury don’t clear a spot, then Kawakami seems like middle relief.
Speaking of middle relief, that looks set with options like Medlen, O’Flaherty, Logan, Reyes, Campillo, Moylan, and maybe Kawakami, among others like Craig Kimbrel and Luis Valdez in the minors. The question is who handles the 8th and 9th, and are O’Flaherty/Logan enough from the left side? I doubt they want to risk Moylan logging 85+ games in back to back years, so we definitely need some help. With the possible options out there (a trade with the Pirates for Capps or Hanrahan, sign Hoffman, Putz, or another former closer, or resigning one of Soriano or Gonzalez) at least one of Soriano and Gonzalez will go elsewhere and we’ll add the draft picks if not both.
So it seems like there won’t be a lot of moves this off season with the bulk of your 25/40 man roster already under control. So 1B (hopefully somone who can consistently produce in the middle of the order), possibly leadoff, and adding at least two arms capable of helping in the 8th and 9th. The Mets and Phillies should be strong offensively, but both have major work to do in the pitching staffs. The Marlins have the staff, and may have the lineup with talent like Ramirez, Coghlan, Uggla, and Maybin around, but I’m thinking most of the baseball media will be picking the Braves to win the East next year, especially if Wren can sign/trade for a consistent run producer at 1B and get as lucky with his bullpen moves this winter as he just did with his moves in the starting rotation last winter.
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I know, this isn’t really the beginning…
of 2010 rosterbation, but 2009 is now officially over.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 7:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If by officially….
you mean it is no longer possible for us to be in the post-season, then you are officially wrong.
“It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone.” A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Oct 1, 2009 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rockies magic number is 1,…
With 4 games left, we have to go 4-0, with them 0-4. It’s over.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duh…
I understand the concept, but it sort of seems that you don’t. If the magic number is still 1, then it isn’t over. Words mean things.
“It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone.” A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Oct 1, 2009 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the current context…
it’s hoping against reality. How about change "officially" to "indubability", is that better?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh no….
“My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3.”
by justincredubil02 on Oct 1, 2009 7:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
thinking…
Diaz and Church can play either RF or LF in a platoon. Are Schafer and Heyward fighting for one spot with the other in AAA waiting until they are safe from the dreaded Super Two?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could Diaz play all season at first?
“Hey Fat Kid…the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!” -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Oct 1, 2009 8:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 1, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for saving that...
damn, it’s a confusing read though in the comments part.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry about that. I wanted to keep the rosterbation under control though, we don’t want anyone going blind.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 1, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand...
and still think the bulk of the roster is already in place. Seems 1B is see what LaRoche gets and if we can be in the mix, if not then comes the plan Bs—Glaus? Delgado? Canizares? Konerko?, do we get the big offer for one of our starters, and who closes? The Pirates look like an interesting trade partner—needing a 2B with a past closer who can be moved, among others. I also wonder if the FO is looking to have one of Heyward/Schafer start in the OF with the other getting “more time to develop” (and avoid Super Two) in AAA allowing Diaz and Church a couple months to garner trade offers or get some valuable at bats before becoming crucial pinch hitters for the stretch run.
With the potential pitching staffs of the Mets and Phillies, we may well be the consensus favorite for the East (although the Marlins look ready for one of their patented big season before a massive sell off to me), if not there with the Cardinals for the NL.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's pretty certain at this point...
That Schafer is going to avoid super two. At most, he’ll have less than a year and a half in his first two years.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 1, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So his 150+ at bats this spring...
started his clock?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
im confused on the super two thing? what exactly do yall mean by that
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 1, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It gets players who play a ton early in their careers into arbitration a year earlier than they otherwise would.
This also makes them eligible for full free agency a year earlier.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 2, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Phillies don't have as many holes to fill this offseaon.
Pedro, Feliz, and Myers are the only players of note that they could lose. Pedro and Myers won’t really change the perspective on the phillies, and they should have plenty to spend on 3rd (now that eaton is off the books). The Braves have far more serious questions to address this offseason than Philly (Soriano and Gonzo, Hudson, a big bat). They may well win the division in 2010, but there is no reason Philly won’t be the favorites.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 1, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did the club option not void with Lee's trade?
I had thought he would be a FA after the season.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It didn't
He’ll be a Philly next april
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 1, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So basically...
both teams need a closer (unless Madsen takes over the job for y’all), and the difference is we need 1B, you need another starter. I’d rather have to find a 1B than a starter in this market, especially considering the Braves have a potential answer already in town (LaRoche) and a desired excess to deal from if needed (one of the 6 starters for say Konerko, or Fielder, or another).
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not a philly fan
But the Phills have their entire pen back next year and should have a rotation of Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, and Moyer. Drabek should be ready by mid-season if they need him. They’re only loss in the regular lineup is Pedro Feliz, and they have plenty of available cash to replace him (Beltre, Crede, Feliz seem to be the best of the available bunch). With the exception of Ibanez, the rest of the lineup is in the prime years of their career. They also have some pretty good talent in the minors if they need to make a trade.
I just think the Braves have alot more work to do than the Phillies this offseason if they want to go into the season as favorites because of how stable Philly’s team is for next year and their proven track record with this group. It would be different if Philly had some issues to deal with this offseason, but their opening day roster for 2010 is stronger than it was for 2009 already because of Lee and Happ. That said, if the Braves manage to keep LaRoche and deal with the closer position, they should be a solid preseaon pick for a playoff spot.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 1, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Missed Figgins in that 3b market...adding him to that lineup would be beyond scary.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 1, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of teams want Figgins
he has as much chance to go to Atlanta as he does Phily.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not arguing that point,
but That’s philly’s only major need, so I’d assume they get at least one of those 4 guys.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 1, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not their only need...
unless someone miracoulsly comes up in the post season that didn’t perform all regular season, they still need a closer same as Atlanta. Or did you not notice Brad Lidge’s performance this season?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expecting Lidge to perform as badly as he has this year is as unwise as expecting him to perform as well as 2008.
Like most relievers, his sample sizes are small enough to assume that he’ll perform somewhere in between (remember, he was hurt for most of the begining of the year). Even if he’s that bad again, they’re still a 95 win team that’s gaining another 1/2 season of Cliff Lee. I still think Madson would do ok as a closer as well. Good teams don’t tend to invest too heavily in their bullpens, they spend on the starters instead.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 1, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lidge is not a small sample size...
considering he completely fell of the cliff in Houston as well. That’s why he’s in Phily in the first place instead of still an Astro. Plus, they have already invested heavily in their bullpen commiting over $11 mil to him for each of the next two years, with the option in 2012. The man collapsed once, and now has collapsed again. I’d be more confident with Moylan or Medlen as closer next year than Lidge.
The man has been a solid closer only once in the last 4 seasons, I think expecting him to be unable to close next year is the opposite of “unwise”.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judging any reliever season to season relies on a small sample size.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lidgebr01.shtml?redir
Looking at his stats, there is no reason to assume he won’t be better than he was this year, or as good as 2008.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 1, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trying to say theres no reason to believe he will be Lidge/2008 again.
That wasn’t worded very well.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 1, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said season to season?...
Over the last 4 seasons, in only one has he been a reliable closer. That is hardly “judging…season to season”. Point remains, neither Atlanta nor Philadelphia has a reliable option in save situations under contract for the 2010 season.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how this became a discussion about Brad Lidge.
The Phillies have a 90+ win team under contract for next season (with Lidge having the worst season of his career), with a bunch of money available to improve it. Regardless of their closer situation, they have by far the best batting order in the national league coming back in tact with Hamels and Cliff Lee fronting their rotation and decent #3 and 4 starters. The middle and 8th inning parts of their bullpen will be solid. They also have a bunch of solid kids in the minors who could be ready next year or used in a trade.
Braves fans have plenty of reasons to be excited (espescially when Heyward and Freeman arrive), but there is no way that re-signing Laroche and getting a decent closer turn the Braves into the “consensus favorites to win the division”. The Phillies are just too good, and could very easily be the two time defending champs(once again, I am not a phillies fan, I hate the phillies).
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 1, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when I said favorite about the Braves...
was under the assumption Lee’s option was cut as part of his trade, and I was obviously wrong there. With Lee and that lineup, I agree the Phillies will certainly be the favorite.
But Lidge became the discussion because you kept saying the Phillies only hole in the off season was at 3B, ignoring an obvious need to find a new closer, or at least someone as insurance if/when Lidge craps out again next year.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blanton?...
not bad as a 4, but I’d assume they’d want someone other than Moyer in there.
And I think I’d rather be in our position, having Soriano and Gonzalez as free agents, than be locked into Brad Lidge for over $23 million the next two years.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lidge isn't a bargain by any stretch
but he’s not going to cause them to lose anybody. They’ve managed to lock up pretty much the whole roster.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4ew-fwu2XT0DrpDLtMcrIg
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 1, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
You think Moyer is going to be in your rotation? The guy was awful this year, and he’s already eligible for Social Security.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 2, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are making some big assumptions there
I agree that the Braves have a lot more to do, but the Phillies are not in the clear. Happ may be having a really really nice rookie year, but don’t let that fool you into thinking he is an ace. He will probably settle in as a mid-rotation guy. Meanwhile Moyer is creeping ever closer to 50. How long can this guy stick?
Jimmy Rollins was pretty bad this year. I believe a sub-.300 OBP.
It should also be mentioned that Joe Blanton and Shane Victorino are arb eligible. That will cost some cheddar. Meanwhile Ryan Howard, Jayson Werth, and others are due for significant raises in their contracts. If the Phillies don’t win the WS and get a huge huge boost in revenue, will they pay up for all of them? They may need to make a trade to shed some payroll.
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 2, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind that they paid 14 million to Jenkins and Eaton this season that will also come off the books.
They paid Myers 12 Million. Looking at Cot’s, it appears they have about 30 million to spend if they’d like this winter. Blanton is unlikely to get a major raise, as he makes over 5 million now, so Dicktorino is their only major raise. They should be able to fill their remaining hole with the money available, even if they cut payroll by a significant amout. The Cot’s link is 3 comments up and details all the raises they have, but they are in a really good contractual situation if they can maintain payroll.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 2, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go back the 5 years prior to this one...
before winning the world series, their opening day payroll was pretty steady in the 90s. It jumped this year, after a World Series win, but as Andy said " If the Phillies don’t win the WS and get a huge huge boost in revenue, will they pay up for all of them?"
The link you have puts them at just under $100 mil, and doesn’t include the near $10 due Cliff Lee should his option be picked up either. They are already on the hook for near 90 with less than half a roster—Utley, Howard, Ibanez, Rollins and Werth in the order, Lee, Hamels, and Moyer in the rotation, and then Lidge, Madson, and Romero. Add in Victorino and Blanton, and that doesn’t give them much many to fill their holes, 3B or otherwise.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It must be wonderful to hit in that lineup.
.721 OPS, 77 RBIs, 100 runs.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 2, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First time rosterbator...
C – McCann/Ross
1B – I’d like to see Laroche signed to a 2-year, $16 million contract – simply because this is most likely where you’d put the right-handed power bat, but I just don’t see a likely way to get one. But Wren has surprised me before.
2B – Prado
3B – Chipper
SS – Escobar
LF – Matt Diaz – full time. Hasn’t he deserved it by now?
CF – McClouth
RF – Heyward, when he’s ready. Until then, put Church out there.
Use Infante as the main utility man – all he does is come through in the clutch and hit.
SP – KEEP VASQUEZ!, Jurrjens, Hanson, exercise Hudson’s option for a home-discount, and Kawakami. Trade Lowe, please. Pay a portion of his salary and trade him for some young, cheap whoevers. Lowe is still a decent pitcher who will eat innings and some other team will be interested in that if we pay a portion of his salary.
BP – Sign either Gonzalez or Soriano – whichever one appears to be the healthiest, and let the other walk. Then keep Moylan, Medlen, O’Flaherty, etc. Try to sign a dominant closer. I’m a Billy Wagner fan.
You say to-mah-to, I say you're retarded.
by alligatorimpersonator on Oct 1, 2009 1:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
everything really depends if schafer is ready or not, if so, he gives us our best option there. great leadoff hitter and defender and has speed. gives everyone the oppurtunity to drive in more runs. im almost positive heyward will be ready and in right field to start off the season..sooo…
Outfield:
Option #1:
LF McLouth
CF Schafer
RF Heyward
4th OF Diaz
Option #2:
LF Diaz (no platoon)
CF McLouth
RF Heyward
4OF BJones
*trade Church for some bullpen help
Infield:
C: McCann/Ross (Ross catches for 1 guy all year like Maddux had, rest BMac)
3B: Chipper/Prado (play Prado at 3rd like once a week, and let Infante play 2nd give Chip more rest)
Short: Escobar/Infante (as back-up)
2B: Prado vs. Johnson in spring training
(Option #1) 1B: LaRoche (see if he’ll take a 1 or 2 year deal to bridge the gap to Freeman)
(Option #2) 1B: Hank Blalock (had kinda a down year so may not be too much, should be better next year
Starting Rotation:
Option #1:
Vazquez
JJ
Hanson
Huddy
Lowe
(KK to the pen in case an injury to a starter)
Option #2:
Vazquez
JJ
Hanson
Lowe
KK
(let Huddy walk and free up some money for “the big bat”, psst..Blalock!)
Bullpen:
C: Gonzo
SU: Moylan
LMR: EOF
LMR: Scott Eyre
RMR: Medlen
RMR: Kawakami
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 1, 2009 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't want to depend on Gonzo as closer, and...
couldn’t you just put Infante at 3rd to backup Chipper instead of moving Prado (that is if Prado is regular starter at 2nd)
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
prado is more of a natural 3rd baseman and infante is better in the middle infield. it really wouldnt matter too much.
but i think it is KEY to have ross catching for a designated pitcher so Bmac dont wear down. also chip needs more rest next year. we wouldn’t lose alot with infante or prado replacing him once a week
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 1, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
rosterbating is messy, tiring and totally unable to please anyone else.
by Sparhawk on Oct 1, 2009 6:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
from the non-existent rumor mill that is my brain:
braves get:
milton bradley
derek lee
5 million dollars to cover salary
cubs get:
derek lowe
ryan church
kelly johnson
by ryan c on Oct 1, 2009 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
in all honesty...
i think we can match up with the cubs. they need a 2b and need to get rid of a bad contract.
we need a right-handed power bat and need to get rid of a bad contract. our roster would be balanced and this gives us the resources to keep vazquez and hudson. this trade, if we were to pick up hudson’s option, would put us at 87 million dollars. it would give us 8 million dollars to re-sign either gonzo or soriano and shore up the pen.
by ryan c on Oct 1, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Completely ignoring his attitude problems (which Bobby Cox won’t be able to fix, no matter what you think) Bradley OPSed .775 this year, which is right in line with the .775 OPS he’s put up for his career in the National League. He’s not exactly a power bat.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 1, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This x40
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Oct 2, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
milton...
is not exactly the center piece in that make-believe deal. he would be a 4th-5th outfielder with the braves and spell a young heyward once a week. i really like the deal because we are trading from our 2 big strengths: starting pitching and 2nd base.
by ryan c on Oct 2, 2009 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2B is not one of our strengths by far, its still up in the air
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 2, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is 2b up in the air?
prado is a career .300 minor league hitter and career .300 major league hitter. his ops for second basemen is 2nd behind utley. why is it up in the air?
by ryan c on Oct 2, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he spent much of the season as a part-time player?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 2, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
comments like these are ridiculous and extremely stupid. He played in 126 games with 440 AB’s this year thats well over part time player this year. Last year in 78 games and 228 AB’s that you call a part time player but not this year with all of these at bats. Lets call BMac a part time player also. He had136 games played and 484 AB’s this year he gets rest and Ross plays from time to time in his place and yes he had the eye problem earlier this year but Prado was hurt with an injury and missed time as well. Lets call Chipper a part time player as well he only got 484 AB’s. The point im tryin to make is all the time at 2B he got alot of 3B and some 1B you absolutely CANNOT make an argument sayin cause he is a part-time player that is stupid and silly on anybodies part he had enough at bats to be considered a regular he got almost as much playin time as Chipper and BMac. The guy only got 44 AB’s less than the so called regulars in Chipper and BMac. Prado missed time as well so that argument cant fly.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 3, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCann was injured during the majority of his off time and plays catcher, the most physically demanding position in baseball.
Jones, too, is an aging player who has been knocked for being injury-prone of late. Are you really wanting to compare his durability to theirs?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you really wantin to say that Prado has been a part-time player for “much” of the year?
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then you ARE wrong then just so you know. I very rarely say another person is flat out wrong but you are absolutely undeniably WRONG about this. Because for “much” of the season he has infact started MORE than he was on the bench. Im countin 3B starts and 1B starts as well so there is no question about this.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 9, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Starting 50% of the games does not make you an everyday player.
If that is what you are implying, you, sir, are wrong.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 11, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He started MORE than 50% of the games so no sir, you are wrong about this issue.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 11, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley makes 9 million in 2010 and 12 million in 2011. Not even the Yankees and Red Sox can afford to pay a backup outfielder that much. The Braves only have one starting player that makes that much.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 2, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's safe to say...
Milton Bradley has as much chance of being on the Braves roster as the Parker Bros.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
woah. rosterbation already?!? who’s going blind?
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Oct 1, 2009 8:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about Hank Blalock. He’s an FA this year and it wouldn’t cost us a draft pick. He’s got decent fielding at 1B and although his power numbers were down this year, he could possibly be that big bat. what do you guys think?
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Oct 2, 2009 1:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
His power wouldn't worry me....
near as much as his health. Interesting target though, and could definitely be a solid right handed bat i the meat of the order.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you! Bring in Hank if we can resign Adam
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 2, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN has an insider rumor about the Braves pursuing Dan Uggla
But I don’t have the insider deal so I know nothing else… any thoughts?
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Oct 2, 2009 6:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my thoughts....
it’s stupid. there are other holes to fill aside from the logjam at 2nd.
by ryan c on Oct 2, 2009 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously? I definitely started this one way back like right when uggla ripped hanley. If LaRoche signs elsewhere it’s a great idea and even if he doesn’t it’s not terrible as long as you still get Prado 250-300 AB’s. He could spell Chipper so when Chipper’s in there he’s more effective. Plus after next season if Jones retires an IF of Prado, Escobar, Uggla, LaRoche, and McCann would still look pretty good. It’s obviously dependent on the price but if it’s only a few decent prospects (ie no teheran, freeman, kimbrel, delgado, etc) then I say go for it. Once again not me ripping on Prado just saying it without a doubt solves the power issues this team has
by McCann's the Man on Oct 2, 2009 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would they deal him within the division?..
doubtful, especially to fill a glaring need for power on a division rival.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See Carlos Delgado, Scott Olsen, Josh Willingham, and i think i’m leaving out someone, for reference.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Oct 2, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’d be awesome…
Braves get:
Uggla
and cash
Marlins:
Medlen
Gearrin
Marlins need pitching. Might work. we have several options in the minors. were really deep in pitching
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 2, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a possible non-tender candidate due to his upcoming pay raise. We may not have to trade anyone for him.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Oct 2, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where would Uggla hit for us?
4th?
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 2, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think lower with his poor avg.
then again, someone has to hit cleanup.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there is no chance they non tender him, they will trade him if his salary is too much
by McCann's the Man on Oct 4, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if teams know the Marlins can’t afford won’t keep him, why would they not just wait it out instead of giving up prospects for him?
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Oct 5, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put it this way if they CANT afford him and other teams knows about this they will get lowballed and not get near as much as they could for him. A team might trade somethin to get him just to acquire him that way instead of tryin to bid over other teams to get him as a FA.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 5, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because they don’t “have” to trade him. They need to clear two of Cody Ross, Dan Uggla, and Jorge Cantu. There will definitely be interest in Uggla, the Marlins aren’t going to give him away without getting anything
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because trading means you don't have to compete with anybody else for him on the market.
Why did the Tigers give us somebody for Josh Anderson?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how...
are the braves going to keep vazquez and hudson, sign laroche and uggla, and still have money for…well, anything? it’s not even possible. what you are proposing will add 28 million dollars to the payroll and still havent addressed the pen.
by ryan c on Oct 2, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually it’s very easily possible but it means only one of Kawakami, Soriano, Gonzalez would be back. Keeping one of those guys, trading for a guy like Mike Wuertz, and having a year of Valdez and Kimbrel would be fine for the pen
by McCann's the Man on Oct 4, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets see Kimbrel improve on lowering his walks in the minors first THEN we can see him in the majors so i dont imagine he will be in the bigs for a full year this year or at least i dont think he should be up for a full season this year in the majors.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 5, 2009 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pretty sure Kimbrel is among those in the Arizona Fall League
which between there and spring training give him time to show improved control. Not saying he will be up all year, but he has time between now and next season to earn the spot.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 5, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now i never said he wouldn’t be comin up sometime next season cause i think there is a great chance he will but i was replyin to McCann’s the Man when he said havin Kimbrel for a year would be fine for the pen. I see the Braves seein how good he does and unless he just blows the Braves FO away then he will more than likely go back to the minors at least for a lil bit. I dont think the Braves wanna rush this guy.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 5, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don’t think the braves wanna rush this guy? You mean the same guy who spanned four levels of milb last year? Yeah he’s on the fast track and i didn’t say just kimbrel would solidify the bullpen. There’s also Valdez, a full season of Medlen, improved Moylan, and one of KK/Sori/Gonzo as well
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize you also said Valdez i was just talkin about Kimbrel. And its a huge difference rushin somebody through levels of the minors and just throwin him in the majors comin out of ST. I personaly think that they will see how he does in AFL and ST and then send him to AAA for awhile i mean he only had 2 games in Gwinett so im sure they wanna see more from him there or not but he will in my opinion have to sparkle and make sure he doesn’t surrender too many walks if he wants to come straight to the majors out of ST is all im sayin I mean he had 4/3 BB to K ratio in the 2 games in AAA so yeah he will have to sparkle pretty brightly to get the nod and even then he still may get sent down to AAA. I think this might be the same exact case as Tommy Hanson. That seemed to work quite well.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 5, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn’t be surprised either way to be honest but I think we can expect Kimbrel to be a major contributor in the pen at least for the second half
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about the second half part i think he could be huge for us in the second half.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 5, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly.
Relievers have far fewer things to work on than do starters.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You still have to throw strikes so we will see.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they really liked Valdez...
Why wouldn’t he have been up this year more often instead of Acosta?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that’s not me saying it’s the best option just saying not to discredit it as being not feasible
by McCann's the Man on Oct 4, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about this?
Derek Lowe
Kelly Johnson
for
Carlos Lee
Dlowe would give the Astros a solid #3 behind Oswalt and Rodriguez and KJ would get to play every day in Houston. The Braves get that right-handed power bat they’re desperately seeking.
Thoughts?
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 2, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Lee gets $18.5 m for the next three years and he’s showing signs of decline. Plus he has a no trade clause
by DCP916 on Oct 2, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and it's 18.5 per, not total.
that definitely takes him out of our price range.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DLowe is making 12MM and Kj is making 3MM. So its only adding $3MM or so and we add 30HRs, 100RBI, a .300avg and a .350-370obp. Maybe he’s declining, but at worst, he’ll hit 25HRS w/ 100RBI while maintaining his high avg and obp.
I’d do it. And I don’t know why we wouldnt wanna come to Atlanta. Houston isn’t going anywhere the next 5 years (their minor league system is garbage), not to mention Houston is a living hell to live in.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 2, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just don't see the Braves adding that kind of salary...
in addition to blocking Heyward/Schafer with the longevity. If the team is going to add a massive salary (and remember, it’s not just 3MM, but over the life of the deals Lee is 8 figures more than Lowe), I can see it at 1B for the short term, but with the cheap options in the OF—Schafer, Heyward, McLouth, Diaz, I just don’t see that being the spot.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasnt set on Lee
I was just sayin that he’s a right handed power bat.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 2, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is, and a very good one...
and if weren’t for the fact he’s be immediately the team’s highest paid player, making over $5mil more than your “franchise player” in Larry, I might agree. But at that price, it’s gotta be a no. The idea of moving Lowe was to get salary relief, and this negates that idea. Plus the Braves have never spent that much for a position player, they’ve come close for a starting pitcher—Lowe, Hudson—, but never an everyday player.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe makes 15 mill
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 2, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd guess there is a good chance that Astros would take that deal
Lee likes living in Texas. I believe he has a big ranch nearby. Houston can be a great place to live depending on where you live. Isn’t that true of Atlanta?
by Salty on Oct 2, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee has made it pretty clear in the last two trade deadlines that he has no intention of waiving his no-trade
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 3, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kaz Matsui is signed to a ridiculous contract i believe. So second base wouldn’t quite be available.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Oct 2, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1 year left at $5 mil.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 2, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
apoxonbothyourhouses' deleted fanpost
BJ Upton anyone?
Tiny by apoxonbothyourhouses on Oct 2, 2009 7:49 AM PDT Comment 2 comments, 2 new
It seems that the Rays will be making BJ Upton available this winter.
Now, I know most of you will say “Thanks, but no thanks” but hear me out.
If we signed LaRoche to a 3-4 year deal (and based on his performance since coming back to Atlanta, it would probably be wise to do that), we will block Freeman, meaning he will, well, waste his talents in AAA.
If we trade Freeman and, say, KJ (throw in MLB ready player who NEEDS a change of scenery) for Upton, this will allow us to think about letting Heyward or Schafer have more time in AAA to season. While Upton is arb. eligible, he is still a few years from FA and will be willing to prove that this year can be chalked up to injury.
He’s got speed and power (both we need) and is RH. While he has regressed, I still think that a starting day outfield of McClouth, Diaz and Upton is good and McClouth/Schafer, Upton and Heyward outfield is down right nasty.
Thoughts?
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“Matt Diaz is a baseball player.”-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Oct 2, 2009 8:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Also
why the hell would TB want a 1B? They have one of the best in Carlos Pena.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
“Wait, bait and bash.” – Jason Heyward’s personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 2, 2009 8:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 2, 2009 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pena is getting too old and expensive for them...
and is starting to get too expensive. From trolling their blogs/boards, it seems they’d like a solid 1B to groom as his replacement in the coming years. Of the pieces mentioned Freeman makes a lot more sense than KJ. With Zobrist and Iwamura, they are looking to make room for their glut of 2B rather than bring in another. Iwamura would be an interesting trade piece though, potential leadoff and solid 2B.
Getting Upton (or Carl Crawford) would be great, but it’d likely mean you need to send out Schafer or McLouth to make room, and Crawford has never really been a leadoff hitter-mostly hitting 2nd or 3rd. I would think we could possibly try and do Crawford for McLouth and Melden (or a solid prospect). McLouth gives them a kind of Crawford lite, but saves them salary which is clearly a huge factor for the Rays.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read on MLBTraderumors
that the Rays are expected to trade B.J. Upton. He doesn’t really give us a power bat but he is someone who can bat leadoff and play CF. This would allow McLouth to move to LF. Upton hasn’t been good this year but isn’t far removed from being great. In 2009 he hit .236/..306/.359, with 10 home runs, and 41 SB’s. The one huge drawback on him is he K’s a lot 151 this year and he doesn’t walk as much as you would like 54 this year.
His best year was 2007 when he hit .300/.386/.508, with 24 home runs and 22 SB’s. He still K’d a lot that year 154 to 65 walks.
The other problem with him is that it’s tough to judge his value. Is he Francouer with better speed or is a budding super star. I honestly can’t think of what would be far for him.
by jack dein on Oct 2, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait...
a .236avg and a .306obp?
No thanks. And if we’re gonna use him as a leadoff guy, I don’t want him striking out 150+ times.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 2, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His avg and obp have been significantly higher the past two years...
this has been a very rough season for him, so hard to say what to expect in future years, but I’d personally take him over McLouth.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s been bad this year but he should rebound in 2010. He’s only 25. He was the leadoff man on the Rays 2008 World Series team.
by jack dein on Oct 2, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something on Upton...
http://www.draysbay.com/2008/8/4/585960/the-truth-about-b-j-upton
I’d love to land his type of table setting speed at the top of the order. But like I put above, adding him or Carl Crawford would mean McLouth or Schafer is the odd man out and has to go, plus at least one other major league ready pitcher/solid prospect for the Rays to make the deal.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would take Crawford over any of our outfielders right now. I would gladly part with Schafer if it would get us Crawford. Crawford plays LF so McLouth could stay in CF. They would form a great top of the order. Especially if Cox let them run. Crawford is good for 50 steals every year and McLouth could reach 25-30 if he was set free.
by jack dein on Oct 2, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what does everyone think about about freeman as trade bait? especially if RSF keeps it up, he brings pretty much the same thing to the table..
im not sure what i’d think about it, what about yall?
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 2, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
RSF was amazing...
in a short season league where he was older and more polished than most everyone he played against. I’m not opposed to dealing Freeman for the right offer, but certainly wouldn’t do so because of RSF.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, im not sayin he’s a future allstar or anything, but definatly has alotta potential..i kinda got one foot on and one foot off the freeman bandwagon right now..i think wren definatly should shop him though, should get some pretty good offers
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 2, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freeman is 20 and has huge upside. He’s almost as untouchable as Heyward.
by fandave on Oct 3, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn’t say untouchable, but very close to it, there’d have to be alot of talent comin back to us
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 5, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they can get a legit ML-ready bat, he's ABSOLUTELY tradeable.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends the position. Unless of course we lock up LaRoche to a 3+ year contract or if its a young 1B MLB ready bat then sure. But i dont see us dealin Freeman for a OF bat and then end up losin LaRoche and really be in a mess with 1B so we will see.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Case for Dan Uggla
I know this is being discussed above but I’m not a fan of insanely long reply convos.
Anyways lets get to it:
Case A: The bat.
I think its fair to say that Wren and Co. are looking hard for a right handed power bat and Uggla would certainly be that bat. He has hit 30+ HR and OPSed over .800 in each of the last three years. His average is not spectacular but isn’t really that big of a deal when your OBP sits around .350.
Often times we look at 30HR from a RHB and freak out without looking at other peripherals. His K/BB ratio as gotten better every year he has been in the league and he has just set a career best in walks with 90 so far. He also isn’t your RHB who struggles against RHP as he is actually better against RHP than LHP.
Case B: The Gove
I think the thing to take away here is the versatility. He plays a bit below average 2B but he should be able to play 1B/3B if he is needed. This would give us the freedom to extend him long term if we want to knowing that he can just take over at 3B when Chipper hangs it up. If we did trade for him early in the offseason we could pencil Prado in at 1B and wait on a value to pop up, should that be a 1M or so gamble on a Blalock or Glaus type FA, a nice trade opportunity, or space for Freeman to hit his way to Atlanta sometime next year.
Case C: The Value:
Some have suggested that Uggla is a non-tender canidate and I think that is crazy. I can think of several other teams who would take a 30HR 2B for ~8M so there has to be some trade value there. I’m sure the Fish need to move him so its going to come down to us outbidding the other suitors. Depending on who all is in the ring it may cost us anything from Medlen/Gearrin/Reyes/Hoover to something as little as Reyes/Gearrin/Marek but its really hard to tell. I would give up that top package but not much more for Uggla.
Now lets look at the money side of it. As a comp lets look at Hanley. Both are power MI with the same years of MLB service. Hanley got an extention that looks like this starting with next year: 7-11-15-15.5-16 from ‘10-’14. Uggla is obviously not the talent defensively or offensively Hanley is so I wonder if we could sign him to an extention that looks like this: 7-9-10-12-13(team option)-13(team option) from ‘10-’15. This would allow us to keep him under budget until Lowe/Kawakami/Chipper and maybe Vazquez/Hudson if we extend them come off the book.
Case D: Need in the Lineup
How nice would this look?
1. McLouth LF/CF
2. Schafer/Diaz LF/CF
3. Chipper 3B
4. Uggla 2B (with his 30HR .800+OPS RHB)
5. McCann C
6. Escobar SS
7. Heyward RF
8. Prado/FA/Freeman 1B
by bbxxj on Oct 2, 2009 1:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
flip-flop nate and schafer and thats a championship lineup
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 2, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
would personally...
put Schafer/Diaz 8, let Prado (maybe Nick Johnson?) hit 2. And I still don’t think Bobby wants McLouth to be the leadoff hitter next year. At the moment he is the best we got for it, but think the FO would like an upgrade there if it can be combined with filling another need/move.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
schafer is your typical leadoff hitter if gets everything right. and thats a big IF. with Schafer and McLouth and base with that speed. Chip uggla and mccan would have tons of RBIs
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 2, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure he is, with that if you mention...
but as a rookie?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he showed signs but whether it was because he wasn’t ready, or his wrist botherin him, he stuggled. i dont expect that to continue..
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 2, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is not a championship lineup...
and aside from heyward, that is basically the same lineup we had this year, and the part of uggla was played by an amazing 2nd half ops machine by the name of adam laroche. bringing in uggla to replace prado doesnt make sense. prado’s ops was incredibly similar, if not better, than uggla’s. laroche blew them both out of the water.
prado and laroche>uggla and prado.
career ops
prado: .804
laroche:.837
uggla:.826
prado’s is the only one that has improved considerably in the past few years. the other 2 is pretty consistent. with uggla’s 2009 ops being 1 point higher than prado’s, this move doesnt make sense, especially considering it would cost about 5.5 million dollars.
by ryan c on Oct 2, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
your logic is way outta line...
uggla has almost more RBI’s this season than prado has in his career, uggla has twice as many homers this season as prado has in his career, im sure you were one of the one’s bitchin’ about a power bat and this is it…we have nobody to drive in runs, thats what hurt this team obviously, runners LOB…in uggla’s career he’s never drove in less than 88 runs and hit less than 27 homers, him and prado both debuted in 2006..so uggla has plenty of time to get even better…and all this on an inconsistent florida marlin team..put him on this ball club with some good young talent and mclouth and schafer ahead of him and he’ll drive in a 100 runs, and thats something that has KILLED us this season. this would be be a HUGE boost to the lineup. uggla is career better in OPS and SLUGGING %….i’m almost willing to bet you come back with the same “but prado has a .300 average, give him a chance, blah, blah”…he’s a below average defender but if you think he’s “deserved a spot” so bad it may have to be in another position or with another team if we have the chance to get uggla because obviously his .300 average didnt score us enough runs this year…get over it and lets get the BIG BAT we need
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 2, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
uggla...
is better than prado. he is a big bat. but why do you upgrade a position that we were basically tied with 2nd in the nl in offensive production. rbi’s are a dumb measurement of talent. jeff francoeur has 2 of them and he’s awful. run production, after the francoeur trade was not a problem….not even close to a problem. do you realize we were 3rd in the league in runs scored after the jeffy trade? probably not.
by ryan c on Oct 2, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were 3rd in the league??? Man, runs must have been scarce in the NL this year.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 2, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That, and scoring 10 runs a game when you weren't scoring 0 and 1 will boost the total.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you pass on one of the best 2nd baseman in the league and on our team’s MAIN need just because all of yall have some kind of man crush on prado, yeah he’s played good…but i’ve seen too many of the sime kinda players come up outta the braves system and everybody get hyped just for them to fizzle out…so im holding off on this to see how prado plays out, i hope he proves me wrong and im pullin for him, im just not puttin too much stock in him right now….and did you know that we tied for 2nd place in all of baseball for runners LOB per 9, probably not jackass. and actually yes i did know were 3rd in theleague in runs scored after the jeff trade, five minutes on this site or watchin a couple braves telecasts and you’ll learn that…and rbi’s is very good measure of talent, and in this case its so much about talent rather than a team need…but hey, if your fine with the phils runnin away with the division again fine by me..a change has to be made to get more pop in this lineup or we’ll in this same damn position..
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 5, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not so much about talent, but rather a team need***
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 5, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you freakin kidding me???
2nd base is our team’s MAIN need? That is absurd. I would say LF(unless we wanna bring up Heyward), First base(we will prolly lose LaRoche) and Closer(we could possibly lose both Gonzo and Soriano) so yeah i say that is a bigger team need than 2nd base.
You keep sayin how he will fizzle out. In 779 AB’s he has a .307 AVG, .360 OBP. His other numbers are solid as well, he will take walks he gets on base he does his job and this is over a year worth of AB’s so im STILL waiten for the league to figure Prado out. Maybe next year lol, hmmm…. but if they dont figure him out and he does good next year will we still hear the well we know some Braves players they MAY fizzle out lets wait another year. Thats prolly how its gonna be for Prado always proven his doubters wrong. Im all for the underdog, go prove them wrong Prado.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 5, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn’t say 2B was our main need. somebody to drive in runs is our main need and if we find a player to do that and he plays 2B, then so be it…i don’t see us getting anyone for the OF and we’ll prolly resign LaRoche..so if we can get uggla then i say we do it..
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 5, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh ok lol my bad i thought you said 2B was our main weakness it just seemed like it. I wouldn’t be so confident in us resignin LaRoche. He is the best 1B on the FA market nobody else is all that good. It only takes 1 Owner and GM to really want this guy and give him a 3 or more year contract so i think the odds of us signin him to a 1 year deal is pretty low in my opinion. And i dont see a reason for us to want to sign him to a 2 year deal cause I see Freeman as prolly pretty close to bein ready, maybe by ST of 2011. He did great in High A and so so in AA but i dont really see that as a big problem. Maybe start him off again in AA at the beginning of the year and see how he performs.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 5, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, now that you say somethin i think he’d have to cut us some kinda deal since he supposedly loves atlanta, other than that the yankees will probably sign him for 20 mil a year as a third-string first baseman or somethin
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 6, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LaRoche will never sign for a one-year deal.
He’ll get a better offer, no doubt about it. However, we may be able to get him on a reasonable multi-year offer because he likes the city and his teammates here so much.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont really see a real reason in givin him a multi year contract to be honest with you. Freeman i think will be ready by ST of 2011 and sure we could deal LaRoche but the problem would be is would we have to eat some of his salary or take back a salary, i guess depends who it would be if we did that.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily.
If he’s playing well, we’d surely be able to get something for him without paying. The Angels certainly didn’t send over any cash for Tex.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The guy's only been a regular starter for a small portion of that data.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that only shows that he can be a starter, the excuse that the pitchers will figure him out part when he got to be the full time starter. He did great as a bench player and a starter.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
uggla vs prado:
uggla’s 2009 ops: .813
prado’s 2009 ops: .822
uggla’s career ops: ..826
prado’s career ops: .810
prado’s power has increased dramatically in the past few years while uggla’s has remained the same. there obp’s this year were identical. uggla had many more homeruns, but uggla struck out 150 times while prado only struck out 59.
not to mention prado’s career, minor league and major league, has been pretty consistent in obp and average while he picks up power. i dont know why you cant place “stock” in a guy who has proven himself year after year.
and what does the runners lob/9 stat prove? that uggla and his 150 strikeouts will make it worse? i’m not saying we shouldnt pick up a power bat. i’m just saying that it shouldnt be at 2nd. first base needs an upgrade. the offense, after the exorcism of jeffy, was not the problem. actually, nothing was. we went 45-32 in the last 77 games, which is good for a .584 wpct. if the braves would have kept that pace up for a year, they would have won 95 games, good for a 2 game victory over the phils.
rbis are not a good measure of talent. ask theo epstein. i’m sure he knows more than you or i. he does put together some pretty good teams yearly. so, i guess you think jeff francoeur’s year where he hit 29 hr and drove in 105 runs with a sub .300 obp to be a success.
http://joyofsox.blogspot.com/2009/10/theo-we-ignore-rbi-in-front-office.html
by ryan c on Oct 5, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think a full season of laroche with around 25 hr’s is above average and will help alot…i think resigning him will be just fine.
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 5, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is if we CAN resign LaRoche. I dont see it happenin especially if we only offer him a 1 year contract which is exactly what we should offer with Freeman prolly bein ready by ST 2011.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 5, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If LaRoche is here a full year...
I see no reason he doesn’t get 30+.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s pretty simplistic view right there as i’ve mentioned before and you’ve ignored before uggla has been victimized by quite frankly “bad luck.” His BABIP stands ~.030 points lower than his career average while still maintaining close to the same LD, GB, and FB percentages. Prado on the other hand is right near his career average. This would more than make up the difference. It’d also be important to note that Uggla could realistically hit 35-45HR in the more neutral Turner Field instead of the Marlins home park.
I’m not saying trading for Uggla is the right move for Atlanta but he does represent an upgrade for us and fits what we need. Prado would become a full time starter in 2011 after Chipper retires and then we wouldn’t have to worry about a replacement for a few years. It fits into the budget and gives us a killer lineup for next year with uggla and a full year of laroche. The only deterrent imo would be the prospects, if we have to trade a nice package it’s not worth it but an average group of specs and I’d definitely do it. You have to remember that 2B, 1B, and LF are really the only areas we can hope to improve. 1B should be adam and diaz projects to produce a similar WAR in LF that Prado would at 2B so it’s really who’s available. Mike Cameron would be another name that interests me but beyond that the LF market sucks for reasonably priced options
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How exactly do you know that Chipper will retire at the end of the 2010 season?
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 5, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clairvoyance.
Duh.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Uggla at 2B and Prado at 1B...
I know Prado doesn’t give normal 1B power, but Uggla at 2B would fill that void.
McLouth
Prado
Chipper
Uggla
McCann
Esco
Heyward/Schafer
Church/Diaz
not bad
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 5, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Prado is a better defender than Uggla last i heard he was pretty brutal at 2B so Uggla would fit better at 1B in my opinion.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 5, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really. Prado’s sample size at 2B is too small to really make an accurate conclusion but Uggla is just about average whereas Martin has been below average for his career.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think Uggla is about average defensively but whatever lol. How has Prado been below average for his career when you just said that his sample size at 2B is too small to really make an accurate conclusion???
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 6, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has been below average but i couldn’t definitively tell you he will be bad defensively going forward that’s why it’s too small a sample size. Uggla’s defensive results have been scattered but average out to well pretty much an average defender
by McCann's the Man on Oct 6, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, i personally think Prado can work hard this offseason at 2B and can make himself better and turn out to be above average defensively. I mean before this year there weren’t too much thought of Prado bein the main guy at 2B for the most part and prolly even in Prado mind but now that he knows he has a GREAT chance to be the Starting 2B out of ST he can just work on playin 2B and improvin himself. I really think he will, he just needs more time to prove it defensively.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 6, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what was he doing in years past?
That was the primary position where he was going to get PT unless Chipper got hurt.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think what you want but i think he will prove next season how good defensively he can be with regular playin time at ONE position.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uggla’s like 5’8" though. That’s a short first baseman.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 6, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point but he does mash like a 1B though hahah.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 6, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, mlb.com lists him at 5’11"! Those guys are hilarious sometimes.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 6, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have Prado at 6’1 on mlb.com so is that about what his height is or is that some exaggeration as well?
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 6, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that sounds right. Prado is a surprisingly tall guy.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 6, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uggla's pretty average, or a bit below.
Prado has been the brutal one.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But like McCanns the man said Prado sample size has been too small to make a definate grade on for the future. I wanna see him play more of 2B before i say how bad he is. You may be right his Defense could be gosh awful next year with playin time but too much small sample size to know for sure.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prado has NEVER "proven himself" as an everyday starter in the majors.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what he did this year did not “prove” anything? How is that? So i guess Hanson didn’t “prove” anything this year as well.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hanson was an everyday member of the rotation from the day he came up.
Prado was an everyday starter for a few months.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prado was an everyday 2B since early to mid June and has been the starting 2B ever since and before that he got playin time at 3B and 1B.
Tommy Hanson was called up in Early June and has been a starter ever since.
So what is the difference exactly??? Like i said he still got alot of playin time at 3B and some at 1B BEFORE bein named the starting 2B.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prado only started 75% of the games in August.
That’s not “everyday.”
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t that the time when he was hurt with the dizziness though or am i mistaken? Either way he was “deemed” Starting 2B no matter how you wanna say it.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i definitely agree with you that Prado can be considered a starting 2B at this point in his career and is a good option to do so, what i’d disagree with some people on here about is those that say Uggla represents a minimal upgrade at best. When I see Uggla, I see everything we’ve been missing according to all the complaining that goes on around here during the season and an extra 200 or so at bats for Prado wouldn’t stand in my way of finally getting another solid middle of the order option to pair with McCann and Chipper. Like I’ve said if the price is over the top (ie multiple top prospects) then i’d pass on him but I honestly believe he could be had for cheap this offseason if we go hard after him.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 7, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Uggla as well i think he would supply the power that we really dont have. Im just not for Uggla starting over Prado and Prado goes to the bench, maybe we can move Prado to 1B or somethin so that they both are on our team. Uggla is that big power bat that we have been seeking thats for sure. He has a low AVG BUT he makes up for it with an above average OBP, he strikes out a good bit but he also walks alot as well. So he would be the right handed power bat that we so desperately need i will admit that. I have no idea how much he will make though somewhere around $6+ million maybe? But non tendering Church and KJ or trading them and not takin on salary and gettin specs or extremely cheap MLB guys would pay for Uggla or almost pay his salary this year. Wonder if Uggla or Prado could play some LF if neither plays 1B? I just want Prado in the lineup for a full season cause im sure he will put up a good AVG, OBP and help this team out alot. He proved alot this year.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as Bobby just said Prado played some RF in the winter in Venezuela i believe. Between 1B, 3B, LF/RF, and 2B he would easily get 300-350 at bats imo.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 7, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and anybody know how RSF is defensivly, it’d be awesome if he could be converted to a 3B for when chips gone. RSF and Freeman on the corners would be deadly if they both keep it up. but i have know clue how he is defensivly besides lookin at his 1B stats, and that dont tell you too much
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 2, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
RSF is limited to only 1B, I’m pretty sure of that.
by bravesfan91 on Oct 2, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d really wait until next year to put too much stock into RSF. I know he was outstanding for Danville, there’s no questioning the numbers he put up, they were phenomenal. But, he was 21 playing in short season ball.
If we’re going to be excited about a 21 year old 1B in our organization, where’s the love for Gerry Rodriguez? He hit .264 with a .802 OPS along with 23 HR and 83 RBI for Rome and Myrtle Beach and has the track record of success that RSF doesn’t have. Plus, he’s shown some ability to play the outfield.
Or how about Alberto Odreman, a 20 year old who played mostly for the GCL hitting .253 with a .719 OPS and 9 homers and 29 RBI in a short season. Not outstanding, but he posted a .895 OPS the year before in the DSL, so the kid has talent.
RSF had an outstanding year, and I hope he does it again and even better, but he doesn’t have enough of a track record to allow yourself to get too excited about him right now. And still, Freddie Freeman is almost 2 years younger than him and outperforming him 3 levels higher.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 2, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my thoughts exactly
I really, really doubt the Braves are going to plan on RSF after 1 good season in short seaon ball. He’s 3 or 4 years older than most of the other players in the league, and like you said, Freeman is 2 years younger and he’s already up to AA.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 2, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m always leery of getting too excited about a guy in his first season, especially short season, especially when he wasn’t a high draft pick or a high profile signing. I’ve been all over the Christian Bethancourt wagon since ST, but he was a high profile signing and he’s performed well at age-appropriate levels.
Same thing with Scott Diamond last year; 21 is a little old for the Sally League, so his early season dominance was easy to overlook, but when he continued it at the more age-appropriate Carolina league, it was time to give him some props. And even though his record was bad, he pitched very well this year, again at an age-appropriate level.
I was given a lot of crap for not immediately drinking the Adam Milligan Kool Aid this year, but the guy was old for his league; he’s 6 months older than Cody Johnson. But, he maintained his incredible performance at the same age as RSF at a level higher, so I’ll give him more credit. He was a higher draft pick too, which add something for me. But, he’ll be 22 going into next year, so, for me, he really needs to put up a good showing early at Myrtle Beach to entirely convince me he’s legit. I’ve come around a good bit, but I’m still not completely sold.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 2, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bethancourt wasn't his first year though...
it was his first year in the states, but he played DSL last year and did well, same as Odreman and I believe Falcon(?).
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meant to add...
that first year in the US probably should add a little as well with the culture change to an extent.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 2, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s kind of part of my point of why I put more stock in their performances than in RSF’s, cause they at least have a bit of a track record.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 2, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
trading for uggla...
makes no sense. you might as well keep laroche, who has a higher career ops than uggla and leave prado at 2nd for 5.5 million dollars cheaper.
by ryan c on Oct 2, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, im not crazy about Uggla either
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 2, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched a high percent of braves games this season and I am only sure of 2 things. Diaz and Prado deserve to start.
I believe it to start off like this
McClouth
Prado
Chipper
Mac
Esco
Diaz
Heyward
KJ
JJ, Javy, Lowe, Hanson, Huddy
release gonzo and soriano
Closer – Moylan
medlen o flaherty and the rest of our troublesome cast
The braves havent had the best attendance this season and I think they will look to stay in house. Heyward is ready and will be the big boost of a bat we needed this season.
Trade Dealine
KJ may get moved during the season w Lowe maybe bringing us a solid 1B or 2B. I think we should deal Lowe and KK. KK could come back and pitch way better next year it was his rookie MLB season and all.If we could add Derek Lee we are a championship team. I think KJ, KK, and Lowe makes a lot of sense. I say give number 5 spot to Medlen. Imagine Lee behind Chipper w Mac and Esco. If Heyward shows what we all know him to be capable of we would have a better line-up then the phils.
by TomGarrett on Oct 3, 2009 3:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To many ifs
Your hoping that Moylan can close when he has almost no history of closing. Your assuming that you are going to be able to trade Lowe and Kawakami. I don’t care if we trade Lowe but unless we take on a bad contract or eat a lot of it he is going to be tough to trade. I would rather keep Kawakami as our 5th starter and let Medlen get work as a starter at AAA. I think one of Gonzalez or Soriano will be back. They are both going to qualify as Type A free agents and they will both be offered arbitration. There will be teams interested in Soriano and he will get a full time closer job somewhere. Teams are not going to be that interested in Gonzalez. Teams are not going to give up a 1st round pick for a guy that they are not sure if he can close. I think he accepts arbitration.
I agree that Diaz and Prado deserve to start. Johnson is a candidate to get non tendered. He will make around $3.5 million next year and the Braves can’t afford to pay a backup that much money. They might be able to trade him but won’t get much. Diaz should start in LF and Church should be kept around as a 4th outfielder. I hate just assuming that Heyward will be ready to start the season and then will be good right from the start. It would be great if that happens but you have to have a plan b.
As far as 1B goes LaRoach will probably be brought back but I like the idea of getting Lee. The problem with trading with the Cubs right now is that they are going through an ownership change and its yet known how much money the new ownership will want to take on. Lee is a good player and would give us that 1 year bridge to Freeman. The Cubs stand to lose some pitching this offseason so they could be interested in Kawakami but its going to take more then just him.
by jack dein on Oct 3, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rosterbation is all about ifs since none of us know whats going to happen
by TomGarrett on Oct 3, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teams are "not sure Gonzalez can close?"
He was at 90% in save opps before he was used like a LOOGY with out the OO this year.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so pretty much....
the same lineup, so we can finish in the same second place again…GREAT IDEA!
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 5, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...because that lineup played the whole year.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You did notice Medlen wasn't a very good starter, right?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a grand total of 3 starts...
talk about small sample size.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 8, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thinking 25 man roster, after listening to Wren for a bit today...
sounded like they think Johnson will be back. Closer and 1B, those are the question marks. I can’t wait until Campillo is back to help the staff.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 4, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
25...
Johnson, Prado, Infante, Escobar, Jones, McLouth, Church, Diaz, Hudson, Vasquez, Lowe, Kawakmi, Hanson, Jurrjens, Ross, McCann, Moylan, O’Flaherty, Logan, Campillo, Medlen. 4 more spots with one likely Heyward or Schafer, and one among the other relievers like Valdez, Kimbrel, or Acosta. That leaves starting 1B and closer, unless one of the above 21 are dealt.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 4, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take everything FW said with a grain of salt
No GM (well, no good GM anyways) is going to show his hand. Those were all just words today. We have no clue what’s going to happen in the next 3 or 4 months.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 4, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
missed what frank had to say…can anyone give me a run down?
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 5, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to know if Campillo will ever be the pitcher he was a couple years ago.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MY 25 man...
listen up frank…
SP: Jurrjens
SP: Hanson
SP: Vazquez
SP: Lowe
SP: Kawakami
C: McCann
3B: Chipper
SS: Escobar
2B: Uggla or DeRosa
1B: LaRoche
LF: Diaz
CF: McLouth
RF: Heyward
B: Ross
B: Prado
B: Infante
B: Canizares
B: BJones
C: Gonzo
S/U: Moylan
RH: Medlen
RH: LaTroy Hawkins
RH: Duaner Sanchez
LH: EOF
LH: Scott Eyre
**unless Schafer is ready, then McLouth, Schafer, and Heyward, left to right, but i’ll assume he’ll need more time
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 5, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Some questions...
Why pay for a 3rd lefty who’s a veteran when you can have Boone Logan for the cheap? Sanchez instead of Campillo? If we wanted Duaner Sanchez, why has he been out of a job since May?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 5, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
idk, im not lookin too much into the pen’ cause i know wren will piece something together…but i like sanchez for some reason..don’t know why he’s outta a job…a career 3.91 era…doubt this will happen i just saw he’s a free agent and i like the guy,,probably be cheap too…
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 6, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just saying...
guy has been out of a job since May. Unless he’s injured, that’s a HUGE red flag assuming someone, anyone needing a bullpen arm would have likely taken a chance with someone having his #s during the season.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 6, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Favorite Brave 3's deleted fanpost
Dye for 2010 ?
Tiny by Favorite Brave 3 on Oct 5, 2009 9:02 AM PDT Comment 3 comments, 3 new
I visit this site often and read the posts and comments and know that you guys are pretty savvy on trades and free agency. Is Jermaine Dye a plausable candidate for RF in ATL in 2010. I know Heyward is close and am a big fan. I played 4 years at Henry County and later watched him play a lot there, he’s definately going to be an Impact player in the bigs but I’d like to give him a full year in AAA. What is you guys’ opinion on this and what are the Braves’ best option for some right handed pop in the lineup for 2010. I like Dye and Derosa and am a little partial to them seeing that this is Bobby’s last year and they both kind of started in Atlanta
.
0 recs | Comment 3 comments, 3 new | Add comment
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Dye is a plausible candidate, but I don’t really see FW going after him. Figure that Heyward gets a shot at making the team in Spring Training – if they decide that he needs a little more seasoning in AAA, he probably gets called up in June 2010 anyway. So maybe we need some kind of stopgap player in RF, which we already have in Ryan Church. Keep him around just in case.
“Brian McCann will be guest starring as Bizarro in Smallville this fall. See, he has to put his glasses on to become Superman.” -by Rhyno18 on Aug 4, 2009 5:52 PM EDT
by Chopaholic on Oct 5, 2009 9:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dye is an option
but his late season struggles scared me off. He has a $12 million option this year and its doubtful the White Sox pick it up. His defense is below average. He had a similar season in 2007 and rebounded nicely in 2008 so there’s a chance he could be good again in 2010 but he’s only getting older.
by jack dein on Oct 5, 2009 9:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dye’s second half numbers:
.179/.293/.297
I’ll pass, thanks.
by Lennox on Oct 5, 2009 9:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 5, 2009 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My take
Decline Hudson’s option and let him walk. He’ll be willing to take a pay cut but he’ll only go so far and some team will pay him a guaranteed $8 million. The Braves aren’t going to go that high. Offer arbitration to Soriano and Gonzalez. They are both Type A’s and a team will pay Soriano but no one will touch Gonzalez if they know they have to give up a first round pick. Resign LaRoach for 2 years $18 million plus 2 option years that get picked up if he’s traded. Maybe tinker cheaply with the bullpen but nothing else. Could make a surprising trade but its unlikely with us having no major league ready prospects that we’ll part with.
Let Prado handle 2B full time and non tender Kelly Johnson. Sign Mark Loretta to a 1 year $1.5 million deal to be another utility infielder. That sets up an infield of LaRoach, Prado, Jones, and Escobar.
For the outfield we should sign Rocco Baldeli. He was healthy this season and wasn’t to bad in Boston. He hit .253/.311/.433 with 7 home runs in 150 at bats. This would move McLouth to LF and then allow Diaz and Church to play RF, with Church playing CF when Baldeli can’t go. He is still recovering but could give 130 games this year.
The rotation stays the same but the order changes. Vazquez, Jurrjens, Hanson, Lowe, and Kawakami. Make Gonzalez the closer and only use him in save situations or top 9 when the game is tied. Moylan can handle the 8th inning. Use Medlen and Campillo as your long men.
Carry 5 bench players, Ross, Loretta, Church, Infante, and whoever plays best in Spring Training ( except, Heyward and Schafer). Heyward and Schafer will both start the season in AAA.
We would then carry 7 in the bullpen. Gonzalez, Moylan, Medlen, Campillo, and 3 others who perform well in ST.
The batting order would be:
1. McLouth LF
2. Prado 2B
3. Jones 3B
4. McCann C
5. Escobar SS
6. LaRoach 1B
7. Diaz or Church RF
8. Baldeli CF
by jack dein on Oct 5, 2009 5:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We wouldn't pay $8 mil a year to Hudson?
Why not?
Also, when we have four decent OFs under contract already, why would you go out and spend money for Baldelli and Church to sit on the bench. Do you think Schafer and Heyward will be down all year long?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We already have 5 quality starters and if we bring Hudson back someone will the odd man out. The starting pitcher free agent class this year isn’t good and Hudson will get good money. We have other holes to fill and saving the money will help fill them. I’m starting to hear that Church could be non tendered. He should through arbitration make around $3.2 million next year. Baldeli would start in CF and move McLouth to LF. That would let Diaz handle RF with or without Church. I really don’t think that Schafer will be up this year until late. He wasn’t good in limited action this year and didn’t get that many at bats. Schafer could be a September call up or trade bait. I don’t think Heyward will start the season in Atlanta and most experts don’t either. He should be up in May or June.
Baldeli is a solid player who wouldn’t cost that much. We are going to have a hard time getting a big bat this offseason with only Bay and Holliday in free agency. That will drive up trade values.
by jack dein on Oct 7, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buster Olney said in his chat today
“But the expectation among other GMs is that one way or another, (the Braves) will get a big-time right-handed bat.
Any ideas or guesses who we could target. I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want Ryan Braun. I dont know what I would do if we got him. I think it would take this:
Jurrjens
KJ (They’ll need a new 2B assuming they don’t resign Felipe Lopez)
Cody Johnson
Cole Rohrbough/Brent Oberholtzer/above average LHP prospect
I’d do it. Would you? Ryan Braun is one of the best players in all of baseball.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 5, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kelly Johnson and Cole Rohrbough have pretty much no trade value right now, so that proposal isn’t really valid from the start. If you’re trading them a minor league lefty, guys like Jose Ortegano or Edgar Osuna would be much more likely.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 5, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree that Rohrbough has no trade value right now, I’d say his value is depressed but he’s a lefty with nice potential those guys always have trade value. Obviously not a good enough package but rohrbough isn’t the problem
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The guy was a little old for his league and he got rocked, even after performing well in limited time there the year before. He has an injury history and didn’t seem to be able to make adjustments as the year went on. If he has trade value, it’s of the Beau Jones variety, an extra arm at the end of a list of much better players.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 5, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was a slash next to Rohrbough, cbwilk. Rorhbough/Oberholtzer/above average LHP prospect. I wasn’t set on either of those 2, just giving examples.
and KJ had one bad year. He’s obviously not the centerpiece, but he’s better than any other option Milwaukee has at this point.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 5, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like if you need a second baseman that bad you could go out and sign a Jayson Nix/Brooks Conrad type minor league free agent and roll the dice rather than pay a guy over three million dollars. At least if one of the minor league free agent guys fail you’re not paying them a ton of money. That’s a lot more in line with the small market way of doing things.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 5, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
KJ is much better than Nix or Conrad...
in the right situation, a lineup with more right handed bats so his lefty can provide balance, with players capable of hitting in the one or two hole so he can hit 6/7/8, I think KJ production of the two years prior to this one or for the second half of this season would be more than worth around $3 mil. The Cubs, Pirates, and several other teams would be nice fits for him.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 5, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they already have Craig Counsell, JJ Hardy, and Rickie Weeks all better options at 2B than KJ at this point
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say they needed him. mvhsbball did and I was trying to point out there are cheaper ways that are just as big a gamble to fill that hole. But yeah, those options are a lot better.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 5, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was just tacking on to your nix/conrad point
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word. My bad.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 5, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, we are comparing KJ
to Nix and Conrad? I’m not with justincredible putting him as one of the best in the NL, but he’s a LOT better than guys like Conrad and Nix.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 6, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn’t agree with that, i was just merely pointing out that with 3 guys capable of playing as good or better than KJ why trade for him? I was just responding to the nix/conrad point not agreeing
by McCann's the Man on Oct 6, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Craig Counsell is better than Kelly?
You’re kidding, right?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m talking about the Craig Counsell that just put up a .766 OPS along with a 13.0 UZR at 2B, so no im not kidding. That is significantly better than what Kelly put up last year and factoring in price he’s a better option
by McCann's the Man on Oct 7, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They've got too many 2nd baseman
Weeks will be back. Lopez probably not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they offer him arb and the unexpected could occur. They’ve got 2 guys in the minors who would play on most teams but have been blocked and are going to be minor league FAs.
Counsell wants to come back too. He’s the backup infielder. He plays good defense at 3B, 2B and SS. He retooled his stance and swing and hit about like KJ in a good year. He cost 1 million and would probably sign for the same and like I say, his role is backup.
by Salty on Oct 7, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think Osuna has much value?
With his low K rate, he’s not likely to stay successful as he moves up.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Osuna has a ton of value. He’s a 21 year old lefty who pitched better at AA than he did at High A. He’s already a pitcher, which is one of the last thing most guys pick up on. Nobody ever wants to give credit to guys without the strikeout stuff, but the kid throws in the low 90s and he’s got control of 4 pitches.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 7, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know alot about Osuna but he is a lefty and him havin control of 4 pitches and if he doesn’t pan out as a starter he could be a good RP down the line. Lefty pitchers are very valuable at least the good ones are and at 21 yrs old he has plenty of time to be a big factor on a ballclub in the future at a cheap price.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Asked if he was going to trade Prince Fielder or Ryan Braun, general manager Doug Melvin said on Wednesday, “I don’t see that happening.”
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t mean it wont happen. GM’s say one thing to the media and another to other GM’s if the GM has the goods and wants the player. I take what GM’s and FO says with a grain of salt. They never wanna “show” their hand.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's all well and good if they're vague.
But that is pretty freaking definitive.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Melvin has said in the past
statements that are the equivalent of he would trade anyone. But its not like he’s going to jump at a deal that isn’t great. They guy that I got the impression was a potential Braves trade piece was Hart and when he talked about that, he didn’t say he wouldn’t. He said he wasn’t motivated.
by Salty on Oct 7, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im sure we can go back and find other statements where GM’s sounded definitive and then did the exact opposite. Now when he says i dont see that happening well at the moment he prolly doesn’t. Now its gonna take a hell of a package to get Braun so that is very unlikely, but Fielder if they get a Freeman type, MLB ready 1B now maybe or somethin else and then another big prolly pitcher stud i dont see them passin that up with Fielder likely to start makin alot of cash in the next few years. So anything can happen.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he’s making 10.5 million this year and next. He’s got a year of arby after that.
by Salty on Oct 7, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well it shows that he made $5.35 million in 2009. So im not sure if he will end up makin $10.5 million in 2010 but he might, prolly $8-9 million more than likely still more than the $6 million that i thought he might would make in 2010.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 7, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My memory is bad. He’s going to make 11.5. Plus a quarter mil in all probability.
by Salty on Oct 8, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is what Fielder and the Brewers agreed on a 2 year guaranteed deal. Im not so sure i would say Uggla is better than Fielder, that dude is a dang beast. And plus the team Uggla is on could always take the case to Arbitration and they could submit a bid about $7-8 million and Uggla could at $11 million or so and could be given either way or in the middle to around $9.5 million or so. Either way though you are right he is gonna get a nice payday. But i can see the Braves gettin a bat not sayin him but some bat cause with KJ and Church $6+ million comin off the books or may not who knows and then GA $2.5 milion we can get us a pretty good bat i would imagine at least to play LF hopefully. Its gonna come down to what we do with KJ and Church though.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 8, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arbitration...
is one or the other, no middle ground.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 9, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh???
I think you missed my point or at first didn’t understand what i meant. I said that the Marlins might try to get Uggla at $7-8 million dollars somewhere in that area and Uggla might ask for $11 million dollars or so and if neither can agree on the terms then it will be sent to an arbitrator to determine how much the player will receive. Sometimes the team wins and they get the player at what they wanted him at or the Player wins and gets what he wanted. I know how arbitration works.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 9, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?...
“could be given either way or in the middle to around $9.5 million or so”
That made it confusing
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 9, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol yeah i see that is very confusing how i worded that. It could be interpreted as they could settle out of Arb at around $9.5 million if they had to to prevent goin through arb but yeah i didn’t actually say that specifically so i can see how it could be very hard to understand, my bad on that one.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 9, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...Freeman is MLB ready?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 11, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no i have said countless times in threads i think he can be ready by ST of 2011. Maybe you thought i meant Freeman, a MLB ready 1B but no i said Freeman, with the comma there meaning and a MLB ready 1B until Freeman is ready lol. I guess thats what you are sayin cause i know Freeman isn’t MLB right now.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 11, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also i said Freeman “type” meaning someone similar to Freeman.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 11, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because a GM is always truthful
about their future plans. Yep, you can always trust a GM to give you the honest answer when you ask them about their plans in the off season.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 8, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know this come up every so often but has anyone ever heard Chipper’s thoughts on moving to 1b? I dont know how good of an idea it would be or how much sense it would make but it would expand the list of trade/FA candidates we could consider. One guy I might consider would be Adrian Beltre.
I know he is coming off a terrible, injury plagued year (shoulder problems, back problems, and one severely bruised bean-bag) but we should still consider him. Discounting this past poor campaign and his equally flukey 2004 (.334/.388/.629 45 hr 121 rbi) season, he has been a consistent, though not great, right-handed run producer. In addition to this he would mark a SIGNIFICANT upgrade defensively over Chipper at this point in his career. He is only 31 and has stated that he is more interested in winning right now than money.
Thoughts?
7/10/09-A New Dawn.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Oct 5, 2009 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops.
Forgot to include this link to his career stats.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrad01.shtml?redir
7/10/09-A New Dawn.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Oct 5, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
chipper will not move to 1B simple as that
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya, thats what I was thinking but I kept hearing people bring it up when I had never heard anything about it. Maybe I’m just guilty of regurgitating unsubstantiated rumors.
7/10/09-A New Dawn.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Oct 5, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I'd want him to either...
for some reason, I think he’d be pretty bad there. Definitely don’t see him making scoops like Kotch or Roche
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 6, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To the AJC on why he is pushing for us to resign LaRoche:
And its not because he wants a reason not to move to first base. He doesn’t plan to do that anyway, and he puts that in no uncertain terms.
“That’s not an option,” Jones said. “I guess if I have to say this through the newspaper (so be it), don’t even approach me. I’ve never played on that side of the field. I would be lost. People think that playing first base is an easy position; it’s not an easy position by any means. It’s a lot of footwork and a lot of things you take for granted as being easy that are not easy. I can still play third base. And I’m going to play third base. What if (Freddie) Freeman comes up in 2010 or 2011, you move me back? I’m not going to be a pogo stick.”
by shariyar on Oct 7, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta be nice for Freddie to think that a Hall of Famer considers you when he’s thinking about his future.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 7, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just like that Chipper puts it out there..
“I know all you idiots in the media and elsewhere think 1B is an easy spot where you can put any stiff and they’ll get it done. It’s not, 1B is rough and it takes a lot of work to be a good gloveman at 1st.”
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 7, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not gonna happen.
All the movement would be bad on his feet.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cb, just wanted to say you’re doing a great job monitoring rosterbation. I hope deleting and pasting 3 fanposts a day doesn’t eventually break you down though. Folks,be sure and check fanshots too. There will be alot of links to articles and quotes out there from people ranging from highly reputable writers to Chipper Jones’ poolboy’s uncle.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Oct 5, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. I don’t think I’ll wear down though, cause I get so frustrated reading this crap. I check this thread and just shake my head at some of the insanity. And it’s still October. I can’t wait for the crazy that Novemeber and December bring on.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 5, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holt_Panthers_Fan's deleted fanpost !!
Lowe up for SALE ?
Tiny by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:01 PM PDT Comment 7 comments, 7 new
D. Lowe on the trade market after only one season ?
Star-divide
According to a recent article on MLB.com Mark Bowman (link below) is reporting that Frank Wren is looking to shop D. Lowe in the offseason. My question is why ? I mean sure his ERA was very high for a pitcher of his caliber but man I just don’t like the idea of trading our number one starter for a Power Hitter unless it was a Jason Bay type guy in his prime which nobody would take for a late thirties verison of D Lowe. I still love D. Lowe and I believe his is still our best pitcher without a doubt. I loved the signing back in last years offseason.
I hope this is just more dumb Mark Bowman garbage which is what they guy is known for, but who knows ? Their is no doubt that one of our starting pitchers are going to have to go in the offseason but the question is who ? I just hope it is not D. Lowe. KK would seem like the guy to me but he would not yield us much of a return on the trade market even though he is locked up for two more years at a reasonable 23 million buck s I believe or wait that was his total contract. Anyway we do have alot of needs such as power hitting OF, 1B, Bullpen relief and closer.
Anyway I just hope this is stupid dumb rumor but let me know what you guys think – I will be pissed if D. Lowe is traded in the offseason, unless it is for a Prince Fielder or Jason Bay type player that we can lockup long term but that is just not our history.
Article Link:
Go Braves – 2010 NL EAST CHAMPS
Poll
Should the Braves trade Derek Lowe ?
* Yes, for a right-handed hitting power hitter that we can lockup long term
* No, he is our ace until Hanson is ready to take over that role
* Maybe, I think trading KK or Vasquez would make better sense
2 votes | Results
0 recs | Comment 7 comments, 7 new | Add comment
Quantcast
Our number one starter is Vazquez. Number 2 – Jurrjens. Number 3 – Hanson. Number 4 – Hudson. Number 5 – should be Kawakami.
Lower fell off miserably later in the season. He’s no where near our number 1 starter. I like him as a 5, sure, but he costs WAY too much money to be worth it.
Would love to see him get traded.
by ATLforlife on Oct 5, 2009 9:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not worth it plz !!
Man Vazquez has struggled in the postseason and I know we are all agreed that the Braves are going to be major players in next years postseason. Vaquez or Lowe or the mound for a game seven ? Hmm…. I will take Derek Lowe.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we’re going to base a player’s worth off one hypothetical game?
by McCann’s the Man on Oct 5, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not what I am saying.
Okay so if you trade D.Lowe what do you think you going to get ? You will not get a M. Ordonez, C. Qunetin, or a P. Fielder for him str8 up. So just keep him we are a much stronger team with him on our squad than with out. Look at the record he won 15 and yes I know that others did the same but he was signed to be our number one. I still believe he has proved his worth for ATL and come next OCT if he is still here you will be seating in your chair going man thank godness we didn’t trade him to a contender b/c we are going to be REAL CONTENDERS IN 2010 ourselves.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think people are too quick to get rid of/criticize Lowe however. I realize he is not an ace pitcher but he is one year removed from an absolutely dominant season. He had trouble adjusting to Atlanta heat and I know he had quite a few blister problems in the second half, sounds a lot like Hudson when he first came over. I think this is a down year and he’ll rebound next year. We have money to get a hitter w/o trading any of our pitching, it just requires some creativity in thinking of names instead of throwing out Matt Holliday, etc as possibilities. Guys like BJ Upton, Mike Cameron, Rick Ankiel, Dan Uggla, etc all still fit in the budget and also allow us to maintain our pitching depth. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see him jump back down to a ~3.50 ERA next year and everyone jump back on his bandwagon
by McCann’s the Man on Oct 5, 2009 9:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I love the idea of Uggla but what do you think it would cost to get him ?
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was on the original bandwagon, I never liked the idea of AJ Burnett_D Lowe is way better pickup.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 6, 2009 12:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well
If the FO is successful in dealing Lowe like they are hinting that they will try to do i would be thrilled
Also they are talking about getting a corner outfielder and i’m fairly upset by that. We have DIaz, McLouth, and Church who could start in our OF next year. From there we call up Heyward sometime and we utilize Church as a 4th OF. IF Schafer is up then we could look to trade Church and use Schafer as a 4th OF’er and work him into everyday.
IMO if both Schafer and Heyward are tearing up i wouldnt be to upset trading McLouth and keeping DIaz in LF.
Call me crazy but i wouldnt mind opening the season with a lineup of:
Chone Figgins 2B
Diaz LF
McLouth CF
Chipper 3B
McCann C
Escobar SS
Church RF
Prado 1B
Heyward comes in and put him in Church’s spot.
by drumzalicious on Oct 6, 2009 1:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
church is looking like he’s as good as gone, Diaz as much as I love him is nothing more than a ~3WAR player, it’s really one of the few spots we could upgrade.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 6, 2009 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off point...
I agree with you on Lowe and the thought he’ll be improved next year. His record this year was a product of the fact he was the only starter getting any sort of run support for much of the year, but he was at the general high mark of his career numbers and would expect him to settle back down closer to his career avg next year.
That said, we just don’t need all these starters. Having them is a nice luxury, but if someone gives the right offer we certainly have excess to move, and with Lowe’s salary and length of contract, he’s an easy target for a franchise on a limited budget.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 6, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we get somebody willing to trade for Lowe and not have to include money then bye bye derek are the first three words out of my mouth. However, I don’t think we should pay a substantial amount of his contract to move him unless we get a nice prospect or player back as well and that seems to be the only way we’ll be able to trade him this offseason imo
by McCann's the Man on Oct 6, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
New idea for adding more power.
With our utility, multi-position guys (Omar & Marteen) available to fill in and Norton in all probability gone, we have room for a 5th OF / PH role. As Low risk & Low cost / High reward option, what about targetting one of the top vet RH power hitters in the minors?
Guys like, for example, 31 year old Mitch Jones of the Dodgers organization. I’m sure there are another 3 or 5 comparable guys who might similarly be available for a less than top 10 A or AA prospect, but this guy could very realistically make a substantial contribution and the Dodgers obviously don’t need him.
Jones’ 35 HRs led all of Minor League Baseball in 09. His slugging was at .651. Over his last 3 years in AAA (as a “AAAA” player), he has an aggregate .293 avg with a somewhat astounding 129 XBHs in only 772 ABs.
Sure, its a flyer. But he (or a comparable) has a ton more immediate upside than, for example, Brandon Jones and could actually give us st least some of what we need the most.
In a worst case scenario, he hits cleanup at Gwinnett.
by fandave on Oct 6, 2009 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
kinda like that idea...
or a mike hessman…remember him?
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 6, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still playing for Detroit's AAA team
.217.324.442 this year.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a decent idea, but these aren’t the kind of guys you trade for, they’re the kind you sign as minor league free agents. There will be 10 guys just like this available this off season, but who knows which ones could actually be successful as big leaguers. For every Jack Cust there is a Mike Hessman.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 6, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’re generally right, but that it also depends of scouting and professional talent evaluations by the real profesional talent evaluators.
A guy like, for example, Mitch Jones might possibly be the exceptional power batsman that you target and go get.
I’m also thinking that for every one Cust there are a dozen Hessmans.
by fandave on Oct 6, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
You also have to take into account the huge boost that playing in the PCL gives to hitters’ numbers. Mitch was a good player in the IL, but his numbers just skyrocket when he goes out to all that thin air. Personally, if I’m trying out minor league mashers, I’m looking at the IL for guys Andy Tracy, Chris Richard, Kevin Barker, Brad Eldred, or Bryan Myrow, cause at least their numbers are a little more genuine.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 6, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I wasn’t saying we need Mitch, specifically, as opposed to using him for illustrative purposes.
Back in the glory years, it seemed like we were forever picking up guys who then made major contirbutors, but were nowhere on the radar screen until we landed them.
by fandave on Oct 6, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jones actually came through waivers this year when Manny took his spot.
Went through unclaimed. That should say something. However, he’s an FA if anybody wants him.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would Miguel Cabrera be available/desirable?...
Could his alcoholic episode may punch a ticket out of town, so should the Braves go after him as their right handed slugger/1B or LF? I wouldn’t move Heyward for him, but would a package of Freeman or Schafer and Lowe, with maybe a couple other mid/lower prospects like Rohrbaugh, Marek, Sucre, Canizares, etc thrown in if needed, be acceptable from a Braves standpoint? Would we even want him, at the price he’s getting paid the next few years?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 6, 2009 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Offer...
looks a little confusing. So I was saying…
Freeman/Schafer
Lowe
Canizares?
Marek?
for
Cabrera
be worth it for the Braves? You lose Lowe’s contract, but take back a much bigger one in Cabrera, but you get his big time right handed bat. Would matching his problems with the inconsistent Escobar be a bad idea?
Still, this lineup would be mighty tempting…
McLouth
Prado
Chipper
Cabrera
McCann
Escobar
Heyward
Diaz
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 6, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Canizares doesn’t have any trade value because you could sign any number of AAA free agents to do what he does. Marek had a crap year at AA so he doesn’t really add anything to a trade. So what you’re left with is Freeman/Schafer and Lowe for Cabera. Doesn’t sound right to me.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 6, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then change ....
Canizares to someone else and Marek to someone else, that make you feel better?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 7, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on who “someone else” is…
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 7, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When the Marlins sent him to Detroit they got the Tigers number 1 hitting prospect (Cameron Maybin) and number 2 pitching prospect (Andrew Miller) in return plus 4 other players. I know those 2 players haven’t played much in the majors yet but Maybin was a top prospect in baseball and Miller was considered major league ready coming out of college. Maybin at the time of the trade was 20 years old at AA. He had played 3 levels that year. Comparable player in our system would be Heyward. Heyward’s value is higher then Maybin’s being that he is only 19 at AA. Andrew Miller had started 13 games for Detroit in 2007. He wasn’t great but had high upside.
For us to make this trade it would take Heyward, Jurrjens, and 2 other mid level prospects. Do you really want to give that up for him?
by jack dein on Oct 7, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I don't...
but the Marlins/Tigers trade also included what had been a top of the rotation pitcher in Dontrelle Willis (I know he hasn’t been, but at the time he was 26 with a 22 win season and solid career ERA) and was prior to Cabrera having to get picked up in the drunk tank by his GM on the morning of a game that would make or break their playoff hopes. A deal for Cabrera and Willis then would have commanded a much higher price than simply Cabrera now.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 7, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Willis was coming off a terrible season in 2007, 10-15 with a 5.17 ERA. His 1 great season was in 2005, in 2006 he was just average and 2007 was terrible. His value was low at the time of the trade. Cabrera was coming off a monster 2007 season, .320/.401/.565, and 34 home runs. The whole drunk thing doesn’t do much to his value. Sounds like a 1 time thing that the Tigers are not worried about. Not that it matters because there is no way we could make the money work. That contract is massive.
by jack dein on Oct 7, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides the package not being nearly enough for him, he is making a ton of money. He has 6 years and $126 million remaining. He makes $20 million in 10/11, $21 million in 12/13, and $22 million in 14/15. There is no way we could make that work. Even with Lowe’s $15 million per year the next 3 years coming off the books.
When Florida traded him they got 6 prospects back. They also sent Willis to Detroit but his value was low at the time. Detroit gave up their top hitting prospect in Cameron Maybin, their 2nd pitching prospect in Andrew Miller and 4 other guys.
The bigger question is why would the Tigers give up one of the best offensive players in baseball for a starter who be their number 3, a 1B prospect who is still a year from the majors or a CF who disappointed in his 2 months of action, a AAAA 1B, and a minor league relief pitcher.
For us to get him from Detroit we would have to give them Heyward, Freeman, Rohrbough, Medlen, and hope they take Lowe. I wouldn’t approve of this trade but its what it would take. They would probably want Hanson or Jurrjens in place of Freeman and Rohrbough.
by jack dein on Oct 6, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
would we want him at the price he’s getting paid? No, there are much better ways to spend that money
by McCann's the Man on Oct 6, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
..."alcoholic episode?"
What even are you talking about?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he just drank 3x the legal limit..no reason to think he’s an alcoholic..come on guys ;)
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 8, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
go up about 4 spots...
read (if you know how), and I’ll bet you’ll figure it out.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 8, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Lind
i couldn’t find anything on his contract on google but what do yall think about this..
Braves get:
Adam Lind
Blue Jays get:
Kris Medlen
Brandon Jones
Jeff Lyman (or another arm)
That would be a HUGE upgrade for left field and he would rake in the cleanup spot
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 8, 2009 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i know he was mainly a DH but he couldnt be worse defensivley than GA
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 8, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know, Lind is pretty terrible defensively. At least FUGA has the excuse of being old, Lind is just bulky and slow.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 8, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's asinine.
no way the Jays do that trade. Lind is a player and you give them MAYBE a player in Medlen and scrap.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Oct 8, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about...
Lowe and KJ to Houston for Lee?
bad contract for worse contract for us.
they get a #2 they need in Lowe (behind the fragile Oswalt) and a 2B who could do wonders in that ballpark.
we get the RH bat we need and crave. while his defense is horrific, he hits A TON.
and in our lineup, he could be Galaraga all over again.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Oct 8, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Andruw?
What do you guys think of bringing Andruw back to serve as a backup/platoon OFer? He showed he still had a litle in the tank this past year with Texas and seems we need another right handed bat in the OF.
by chopc on Oct 8, 2009 10:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, he still hit for no average, he still strikes out too much, and without playing in Texas’ ballpark, I doubt he’d have any power. And he barely played in the field this year. So I’m still thinking not a great idea.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 8, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two names to add as potential targets: Nelson Cruz and Shin-Soo Choo. With the Indians rebuilding as evident by the trades of Lee and Martinez we might be able to entice them with prospects. I think we’re also in a position to offer to take Kerry Wood’s contract off their hands as a way of lowering the price for Choo. By taking on Wood and say 8M of his salary (so CLE includes 2M) we could offer Medlen or Cody Johnson, Zeke Spruill, Randall Delgado, and a couple of low upside guys in return for Choo and Wood. Choo, McLouth, and Heyward gives us a killer outfield and if schafer proves himself at AAA then McLouth becomes expendable next offseason when his price balloons up. Doing out the payroll, we would be able to keep all six starters and have ~1.5-3M to bring in one more pen arm. Billy Wagner, Mike Wuertz, Nick Massett, etc come to mind as sign or trade possibilities. Even though the pen would be far from great, having Wood, Wagner/Wuertz, Moylan, Kimbrel (at least for half a season), and possibly Medlen would suffice to go with a strong offense and excellent SP
by McCann's the Man on Oct 8, 2009 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You know that Choo is going to have to go to Korea for 2 years to be in the military, right?
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 8, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually he might not.
i heard that it his service time was waved b/c he agreed to play in the WBC for Korea for the next 4 years.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Oct 9, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Source?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 11, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah there is a very strong chance he gets out of it, that scenario obviously dependent on it
by McCann's the Man on Oct 9, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You probably noticed, but Wood actually had a really nice second half.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 11, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wood has gone from terribly overrated to slightly underrated imo. He was incredibly misused last year, in almost the exact opposite way of soriano, he would often pitch only once a week keeping him from gaining any momentum. He’s certainly not worth the 10 million or so he is line to make next year however
by McCann's the Man on Oct 11, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holty_Panthers_Fan's Second Deleted Fan Post !!!
Nelson Cruz is getting strong look from Braves ?
Tiny by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 8, 2009 10:28 PM PDT Comment 0 comments
Nelson Cruz is getting a serious look from the Braves and it was not just a over nite event
Star-divide
So apparently the Braves are serious about acquiring a power right handed hitting bat to add to their lineup this offseason. According to David O’Brien of the ATL Journal Constitution the Braves are quiet serious this time. Apparently we are also considering to at long last to get some speed on our team as well ? Whatever that means, every team is always looking for that I would think.
To any event we all know about Nelson Cruz and how well he did in the Homerun Derby this year; but my only concern is that could he be just a one year flash in the pan type guy ? Alot of guys have hit 32 homers and driven in 70 or so runs ? Other such players have had kinda of the same type of career stuff happen to them only to see their careers disappear such as Ruben Riveras or Raul Mondesi’s of the world (not to say that either of these guys ever had as many homeruns, competed in HR derbies,etc.. but I am just trying to make a point of one year flash in the pan type guys). The article tends to say that he is going to be our baserunning threat as well but we have Schafer whom has to play in CF next year and McLouth who is always a threat on the base pads but the article totally ignores both, or at least doesn’t list either as good opitions, LOL; hmmm …. typical sportswriter.
So I am just wondering what it would take to get Nelson Cruz, no way would I give up D.Lowe for him str8 up but if they decided to go that way the Rangers would at-least have to give us one bullpen arm for sure either Wilson or Perez. The Rangers would want pitching and alot of it I am sure but the deal just seems to good to be true to me. Plus, Cruz is due a big arb raise this upcoming season and is it not his last ? If anyone knows his contract status please let me know here.
So what would it take ? (No untouchables would even be considered such as Heyward, Hanson, Freeman, Kimbrel etc…)
My trade idea would be:
Braves get :
Nelson Cruz (RF), C.J Wilson (Lefty Reliever) or Neftali Perez (RH reliever)
Rangers get:
D. Lowe or KK, James Parr, Kelly Johnson ( if Lowe is not involved then giving up KK is our only other opition but it would take more than KK, Parr, and Kelly Johnson in a trade to get Cruz I have a feeling. )
I guess our list of offseason needs has been reshifted or changed around a little .
1. Right handed Hitting Power Bat
2. Speed added to our lineup
3. Resign LaRoche
4. Resign Huddy
5. Acquire or sign a stop gap closer ? Or use moylan or closer by comittee ?
Article Link:
Stats Link for Nelson Cruz:
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=443558
In a side note the METS of course are trying to get in on this guy as well but what do they even have to offer ? nothing in majors that is not already banged up and pitching please they are a joke and the Rangers would want a Major League ready starter for sure and of course their is no way the Mets would give up their ACE.
Poll
Should the Braves trade for Nelson Cruz ?
* Yes, I don’t care even if they want D. Lowe make the trade
* No, just a one year flash in the pan type guy
* Maybe for KK, Kelly Johnson, and few others but not D. Lowe
1 votes | Results
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 9, 2009 1:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i don’t see the rangers being willing to pick up that much salary next year. but getting cruz would be awesome
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 9, 2009 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This "trade idea" is why I don't read Holty...'s posts
I don’t like to insult people who’ve never done anything to me, but this is why people hate rosterbation so much. Let me get this straight, you think the Rangers would even consider giving the Braves their starting RF, AND their awesome RH pitching prospect or their very good LH reliever/closer for Derek Lowe (and the $45 million he’s owed over the next 3 years), James Parr (decent middle-relief prospect), and KJ (coming off of his worst season, due for a raise to over $3 mil, and a strong candidate to be non-tendered). Hmmm…
Did you ever stop to think about whether you would do this deal if you were the Rangers? Obviously not. So I’m going to tell you this for your own good: Think, Think, Think before you type this kind of nonsense or before you talk (when you’re out in the real world). If you don’t, people will think you are an idiot and reading your posts/listening to your opinions is just a waste of their time. Just my opinion…not trying to be an a-hole, just being honest.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Oct 9, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey sometimes honesty is needed to be said to some folks.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 9, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a terrible trade offer. The Rangers are a little cash strapped this offseason and have some guys they would like to resign. Cruz is entering his 1st year of arbitration. He should make somewhere around $3 million next season. They would probably take Lowe in the deal but we’d have to pay some of the salary probably about $5 million per year. Then take one of there bad contracts, and there aren’t many. We’d also have to give up a solid prospect in the deal.
The trade I would propose would be Kawakami, who has around $15 million remaining on his deal, Rohrbough, and Delgado. They are going to want pitching. We might have to pay a few million on Kawakami’s deal to do this anyway.
by jack dein on Oct 9, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how about
Cruz and Wilson
for
Freeman, Schafer and Lowe + 20 million for 3 years?
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Oct 9, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh please no. Whats the true Wilson? the 08 version or the 09 version or is he inbetween those years such as not as bad as the 08 version but not as good as the 09 version? I mean if we wanted to deal Schafer and Lowe and then somethin for Cruz and Wilson then fine but im not for givin up one of the top prospects in the game along with Schafer and then Lowe and then money.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 9, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say he's probably the pitcher he's been after his rookie year.
232.2 IP, 231 Ks, 3.75 ERA, 1.35 WHIP. A fine piece, but probably not true lockdown closer material.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 11, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are not going to want Freeman. They already have a young 1B who can hit in Chris Davis. As much as I would like to get Cruz we just don’t match up well with them. They are pretty much set in the the field. They need major league ready pitching but don’t have any that we would be willing to give up.
Lowe is not anywhere near close enough to get Cruz. Lowe is overpayed, aging, and in the decline. Cruz is 29 with great power and the ability to steal bases. I’ve been working on this for awhile and the only way they would trade us Cruz is if Jurrjens was part of the deal and I highly doubt the Braves deal him.
by jack dein on Oct 9, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Davis is a wind machine...
their young 1B is switch hitting Justin Smoak, and he’s a good one.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 9, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
either way their not going to want Freeman.
by jack dein on Oct 9, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are people giving up on Jordan Schafer after 2 bad months?
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 9, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading him for an established power hitter=giving up on him?
Did we also “give up on” Feliz and Andrus and Wainwright?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 11, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys, just found this, it's next season's 25 man roster
SP Jair Jurrjens
SP Derek Lowe
SP Javier Vazquez
SP Tim Hudson
SP Tommy Hanson
RP Peter Moylan
RP Craig Kimbrel
RP Kris Medlen
RP Eric O’Flaherty
RP Jorge Campillo
RP Boone Logan
RP Luis Valdez
RP James Parr
1B Adam LaRoche
2B Martin Prado
SS Yunel Escobar
3B Chipper Jones
OF Nate McLouth
OF Jason Heyward
OF Matt Diaz
BN Jordan Schafer
BN Kelly Johnson
BN Brooks Conrad
BN David Ross
BN Omar Infante
How we got here:
Kawakami gets traded to the Dodgers for something like Jamie Hoffman (25 year old AAA OF prospect) and a PTBNL.
Soriano, Gonzalez, Ryan Chuch and Vladimir Nunez walked.
Adam LaRoche resigned for 3 years, 19 mill.
Exercised Tim Hudson’s 1 year, 12 mill option after negotiations for an extension broke down.
Reached arbitration deals with Kelly Johnson, Matt Diaz, and Boone Logan.
Payroll remains approximately the same.
by Bronn on Oct 9, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So we’re paying the same for a worse team.
I like the Kawakami trade. His value us overrated and getting 1 good prospect back would be nice for him.
I think Gonzalez will be back and I would rather have Church then Johnson. Hudson will be back.
With your roster though who closes. Moylan is the only one with experience but with your roster our bullpen is a lot worse and based on rookies living up to expectations.
by jack dein on Oct 9, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we'd had this team the entire season
We’d be in the playoffs. But we had a full season of GA in LF, half a season of FYF in RF, and more than half a season of Kotchman at 1B.
I don’t expect LaRoche to repeat what he did in Atlanta over a full season, but his full season against Kotchman’s is no comparison, and he was absolutely horrible in Pittsburgh. His end of season numbers aren’t eye-catching for a 1B: .277/.355/.488, 25 HR, but if we’d had him for another 80 games instead of Kotch, we’re a decent offensive team.
I don’t see this as a worse team-it’s only weaker at the closer position.
by Bronn on Oct 10, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LaRoach is a 2nd half player. Anderson came in late and was injured for awhile but once he got healthy he wasn’t that bad.
Plus if Heyward would never have been in RF all season this year. You still didn’t answer who closes.
Here’s why I think we’re worse if this was our roster for 2009. No closer in that group other than Moylan. Lot of young guys taking important spots in bullpen. Heyward probably wouldn’t have been that good this year.
A full season of LaRoach and Diaz starting make the offense better but with a terrible bullpen it offsets.
by jack dein on Oct 10, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for 2010 I think that roster has a chance to compete if we add a closer. One guy that I think we might pursue is Matt Capps. I’m not a huge fan but he could be had rather cheap.
by jack dein on Oct 10, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know i actually like Capps. This guy was very good before this season. I think we might could buy low and really benefit us. Look at Cliff Lee a few years ago. One year he was just pitiful then the next year he was fine. I think this could be the same way with Capps. And if we could get him just payin his salary and not givin up much for him wow that could be the steal of the offseason.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 10, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been ignoring the matt capps comments up until now and did some research, and i guess im joining the bandwagon now. Capps has been the victim of an extremely high BABIP (71 points higher than career avg) and a high HR/FB rate (nearly 5% higher than career avg). If we can get him for a nothing prospect and pair him with Gonzalez (assuming re-sign in this scenario) and Moylan we have a strong back of the bullpen, not even accounting for O’ Flaherty, Medlen, Kawakami, and Kimbrel. That bullpen also isn’t going to cost more than 10M in all likelihood. Could even trade for my favorite option, Mike Wuertz, in addition to Capps and just have a stacked, but cheap bullpen.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 10, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Capps made $2.3 million this year and will be arb. eligible 2010 and 2011. He should make $2.8 to $3.2 million next year. Wuertz made $1.1 million this year. Arb. eligible in 10/11. Should make $1.8 to $2.2 million next year.
Gonzalez is the wild card. He’s a type A free agent and I think that will really scare teams off on him. He’s somewhat inconsistent and hasn’t proven to be a closer for a full season. Might be a Darren Oliver type situation.
by jack dein on Oct 10, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we could re-sign him for something like 5M per season for three years and that would put the bullpen costs (including wuertz and capps) a little below 12M but that’s for a top notch bullpen (also note that i’m counting Kawakami’s salary as part of the starters). Kawakami and Medlen as LR/MR, Gonzalez and either Capps or Moylan as a closing tandem. The other and Mike Wuertz as SU men and O’ Flaherty as the LOOGY. That also leaves Craig Kimbrel as a wild card and allows us to keep him down for the first part of the season. That leaves us enough payroll flexibility to re-sign LaRoche but if we wanted another hitter he’d have to be an arb or pre arb guy a la Granderson, BJ Upton, and Shin- Soo Choo acquired through trade. In a scenario where we trade for Choo as well as make the bullpen moves suggested above, payroll projects between 90-92M. That could leave some extra money for the draft or a big signing in IFA
by McCann's the Man on Oct 10, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll go with you on the $5 million per year for Gonzalez because I have no idea how much he will sign for. He could get a closer contract for $8-10 million a season or he could be sitting there in February as a free agent.
I’m not that high on Granderson. He’s left handed, doesn’t hit for a high avg. and strikes out a lot. He does have good power, and good speed but he is going to be overvalued. Upton is a right handed version of Granderson with less power. I’m not sure where the Choo rumors are coming from. The Indians really wanted him last offseason. He’s left handed and strikes out a lot to.
by jack dein on Oct 10, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Granderson’s avg was hurt by a really poor BABIP, the two previous seasons he got on base at a .360 clip. He also plays very good defense in CF. Upton is a great defender, great speed, and a solid hitter though not as good as Granderson or Choo. Choo could be had at the right price ie top pitching prospects imo since they seem to want to stockpile young arms. Strikeouts aren’t really a big issue because all these guys bring some nice power to the table. All 3 are 4-5.5 WAR players
by McCann's the Man on Oct 10, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We really don’t have any young arms right now that we would be willing to part with. Granderson strikes out to much for me. Over the last 4 years he has averaged 142 K’s a year while playing a average of 155 games. Not only that but Wren has said that we need a right handed bat. Granderson and Choo are both left handed. Upton is to much of a risk.
by jack dein on Oct 10, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wren also said that we needed a right handed bat last offseason. Honestly if you look at the OF market there are really only 4 available guys that bat RH that should interest anyone: Mike Cameron, Jason Bay, Matt Holliday, and BJ Upton. And I think we’d be willing to part with Randall Delgado for the right guy and we also have Spruill
by McCann's the Man on Oct 10, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the idea with Upton is that you’d be able to get him when his value is depressed, so you wouldn’t have to give up a freeman or delgado type prospect for him
by McCann's the Man on Oct 10, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to land Upton....
if it didn’t cost Schafer, can you think about a future defensive OF with Upton, Schafer, and Heyward? That’s a lot of ground covered.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 11, 2009 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Upton might be my favorite target in all honesty if the Rays as well as the rest of MLB undervalue him. If they’re willing to trade him for something like Spruill, Cody Johnson, and 1 or two others then I’d be estatic. There’s no way he’s a .700 OPS player going forward and besides Nyjer Morgan he’s one of the best defenders in CF. Can trade McLouth next offseason if and when Schafer proves himself in AAA and recoup the prospects dealt for BJ plus some. Now if they still value him as a performer like his 07 season then no way am i making that trade and I’d shift focus to Granderson and Choo or just let Schafer or Diaz start
by McCann's the Man on Oct 11, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would think
the Rays would take Teheran, Milligan and an AAAA player like BJones or JoJo Reyes for Upton.
What do you think?
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 11, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way I trade Teheran and I’d much prefer to deal Cody Johnson over Milligan. I’m thinking something more along the lines of Spruill, Cody Johnson (perfect DH candidate), Valdez, +1. No way I’m trading two of our 5 best prospects for a guy that just posted a .700ish OPS even if i believe the season was an aberration
by McCann's the Man on Oct 11, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont see that gettin it done to get Upton though i would figure Rays would still view him higher than that though. Im not sure what i would give up for him but i just dont see them tradin him for what you said.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 11, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? Gonzalez hasn't been a successful closer for a full season?
How about when he was 24-24 in saves in ‘06? And what the hell does Darren Oliver have to do with anything? He’s never closed. Ever.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 12, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was before he had Tommy John surgery and it was in Pittsburgh. What I meant with the Oliver comment was that he is a borderline Type A and that will shy teams away from signing him just like when Oliver was a type A last year.
by jack dein on Oct 12, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Capps or Joel Hanrahan from the Pirates...
are interesting. Both have solid stuff. Hanrahan really struggled to close with the Nats, but got a lot better in a set up role in Pittsburgh. Capps has been pretty strong the last two years before a disastrous season this year. They could use a 2B, and someone to provide a little run production in the middle/back half of their order. Salaries seem to match, as does the need from both sides, so that I keep thinking a Capps or Hanrahan for Kelly Johnson deal (maybe another bit piece or two thrown in) makes a lot of sense.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 11, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not as big a fan of Hanrahan to be honest but I think Matt Capps is due for a big time rebound season
by McCann's the Man on Oct 11, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Capps is too man, i can see a Cliff Lee type rebound for Capps. I would be ecstatic if we could get Capps for nothin much as far as a spec or KJ for Capps. That would actually be a solid deal cause both are comin off of bad seasons and maybe this could help both players, a lil bit of change of scenery.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 11, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A "Cliff Lee type rebound?"
You know Capps was never particularly highly-regarded, right? Odds are just as good he’s over his head when he’s pitching really well.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 12, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummmmm his stats in previous years shows differently. Yeah he was a very good closer i would have taken him on my team thats for sure. You know i guess your right though just because he was very good in 2006, 2007, and 2008 didn’t mean too much and that this year was his true year, righhhhtttt and you wonder why i mentioned a “Cliff Le type rebound?” But think whatever you want.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 12, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course not...
Capps had strong #s each of his first three years in the league, and even as he struggled this past year he was still decent closing (Mike Gonzalez had more blown saves—7 vs. 10 saves, as Capps blew 5 and saved 27).
Hanrahan has 14 careers saves vs. 9 blown, and an ERA above 7 while in the role with Washington. But in the 33 games with Pittsburgh last year he had a sub 2 ERA. My thoughts with Hanrahan weren’t to close, as he’s shown in the past he’s just not good in the role. But perhaps he could help in the 8th inning with Moylan, or a resigned Soriano/Gonzo, or whoever closing.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 12, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzalez was also not in true save situations as often as Capps was.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 12, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are wrong...
Gonzalez pitched in 34 “save situations” according to baseballreference, Capps 33.
Either way, Gonzo still had 7 blown saves to Capps’ 5 (with Capps having near triple the saves).
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 12, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta agree
Gonzo WAS our closer at the beginning of the year and was erratic and not gettin it done thats why we replaced him with Soriano, so yeah Gonzo did get chances. Even though Capps ERA is terrible the dude shut the damn door in the 9th when it counts. Gonzo had plenty of chances as a closer for the Braves in the 2009 season we just couldn’t continue to see him falter at the end of games for us anymore.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 12, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can’t a pitcher be in a save situation in like the 7th and 8th inning as well and not just the ninth? If so I’d venture to say a lot of Gonzalez’s “situations” occurred in the 8th and not the ninth therefore accounting for the disparity in number of saves
by McCann's the Man on Oct 12, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
most of the time i remembered was the 9th and it wasn’t pretty for the most part, but yeah i think i do remember seein him some in the 8th as well. But if i remember correctly he was “mainly” in the 9th and mostly 9th pretty much in save chances before being replaced because of inconsistency.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 12, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but he certainly didn’t get more than 20-25 chances in the 9th
by McCann's the Man on Oct 12, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah thankfully, the guy worried me every single time he came in in the 9th of a save chance. I didn’t know if it would be Dr. Jekyl or Mr. Hyde in the 9th. Bottom line is he still blew games in the 8th or 9th and lost his closer job cause of inconsistency.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 12, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzo was the closer early...
until Soriano took the job, and even then he still had several chances. You may be right with some, but a blown save is still a blown save.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 12, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont forget we also had a few months of KJ starting at 2B and lookin pretty gosh awful as well.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 10, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoffman isn't really a good prospect.
He was DfAed late this year and got no interest at all.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 12, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s not a playoff roster right there and actually payroll would easily be less than last year, in fact just a quick calculation in my head puts that team at about 82M dollars.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 9, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then we use the remaining 8-10 M and buy the Marlins
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 9, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part of my assumption
is that a large part of Hudson’s 13 mill from this season was picked up by the insurance. So while you total up the dollar amounts for the players and it’s like 94 million, I suspect we closer 85-86 just based on insurance covering Hudson.
If ownership goes a bit cheap on this offseason, which is possible, I’m not upset with that as our opening day roster. Without giving up prospects or spending huge, I don’t see an OF upgrade. Who would we replace? I want Heyward in here, Diaz/Schafer gives us a great OF platoon, and McLouth is easily a 4 WAR player if he can get his bat and glove working together.
I’ve looked at free agency, and there really isn’t a clear upgrade over LaRoche unless you gamble on Delgado’s health. So our search for a big bat there is ultimately fruitless without some of the crazy prospect-bleeding trades that are being proposed.
The only question mark on this roster is the bullpen, which is where I’m hoping Kimbrel and Medlen can become big pieces. A healthy Campillo gives us a LR/flex starter who is just as good as KK. This FO has always shown a reluctance to spend money on relief pitchers in free agency, and the 7-8 mill I expect Gonzo to get is probably out of the question, much less the 10+ Soriano will almost certainly be offered.
If the Braves do anything with the bullpen, it’s going to be a trade that almost no one will see coming, like when they dealt Horacio Ramiez to get Soriano, or what’s-his-face to add Bob Wickman.
by Bronn on Oct 10, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way Campillo is as good as Kawakami.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 12, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
158.2 IP, 3.91 ERA, 107 Ks, 38 BB, .261 BAA, 4.00 FIP
156.1 IP, 3.86 ERA, 105 Ks, 57 BB, .258 BAA, 4.21 FIP
One of those lines is Jorge Campillo in 2008, and KK from 2009. You tell me which is better.
by Bronn on Oct 12, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow closer than i thought. Without lookin i will say the second stats you showed is Campillo from 2008 and the first one is KK from this year. This is without lookin.
Closer than i thought man, wow. But i would still rather have Kawakami, but your right though its not like Kawakami is so much better like MichaelProcton is tryin to sayin.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 12, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
what’s-his-face, Max Ramirez, was a pretty good catching prospect.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 12, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"a pretty good catching prospect"...
with under 60 plate appearances in the majors at 25, but he does pretty well at AAA, when he’s healthy that is.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 12, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...because lots of catching prospects are great early in their careers?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 12, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ehhh he is more of a DH anyway but a good player though.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 12, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great? No...
but make the major league roster against 2 other similar Cs in Teagarden and Salty? He can’t stick on a roster, and has health problems now. Nice bat, but he’d have never played with McCann and as of the moment hasn’t produced above AA and is far from a sure thing as a big leaguer.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 12, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
your right, i mean im not gonna say he cant make it and not produce but he is 25 and i dont see him stickin at catcher. More likely DH maybe first. He does have a good bat i just dont see him stickin at Catcher in the future.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 12, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't see...
Jordan Schafer being with the big club and NOT getting everyday at bats. I could see that lineup, with Matt Diaz in LF or RF any time we see a left handed starter replacing any of the 3 OF.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 10, 2009 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just a line-up
not one I expect for all 162 games. I certainly plenty of platoon and flexibility situations, with KJ playing a good deal of 2B while Martin gets time at both corner infield spots. Schafer should play a good bit of CF as well, sliding McLouth over to LF, and every now and again Omar will play some LF with Diaz moving to RF against some tough lefties.
In fact, my only hope is that the Braves can find enough ABs for Matty.
by Bronn on Oct 10, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That bullpen is a little scary.
Cheap, certainly, but I’d worry a lot about our pitchers not going 7+ every night. The bench looks good, though.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 12, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking about other players that the Braves could pursue this offseason and I wonder if the Braves will revisit Ryan Ludwick. The Cardinals have a lot of free agents this offseason and a few that are going to cost a lot. Ludwick is in his 2nd year of arbitration. They need to get all the money together that they can to make a good offer to Holliday. Ludwick wasn’t great this year hitting .265/.329/.447, with 22 home runs. He made $3.7 million this season and should make around $5-6 million next year. He could be had somewhat cheap. The Cardinals don’t really need starting pitching so maybe they would settle for a couple of prospects for him.
by jack dein on Oct 10, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We need a new post to rosterbate on!
This one is getting messy and has 300+ comments on it. I cant wait to see what happens when the Winter Meetings begin. For those 4 days, my phone’s web browser is constantly being refreshed for any Braves news.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 11, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Psh...
Messy. Who you is?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 12, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t feel comfortable talking about how messy things are with a bunch of guys doing a group rosterbation.
by Salty on Oct 12, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m totally Ok with you starting up a new rosterbation post, so long as it’s pretty clear that’s what it’s for. I’ll just move deleted stuff to that. As long as it’s all staying fairly clean in a few places, go nuts.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 12, 2009 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just some thoughts....
1) Non tender KJ and sign Orlando Hudson for about the same money KJ would cost. We get our lead off hitter and add a threat to the running game without increasing our payroll.
2)Justin Upton PTBNL for JJ and Schafer? Pick up Huddy’s option and go for it all in 2010?
3) Swap bad contracts with chicago? Lowe for Rios? Probably not a good matchup as the soxs have pitching and are letting dye walk? However, kenny is always looking to deal so I’d make the call.
4)Xavier Nady as the new GA via cheap free agency pickup and we resign Laroche?
5) Swap Mags for Lowe straight up? Mags becomes the GA of 2010 and we free up some serious money for 2011 and 2012?
6) Somehow…someway…. Michael Cuddyer? Perfect guy for Freeman timetable. It would cost us.
7) Josh Willingham for Church plus KJ or pitching prospect?
Just some thoughts…….
by Charmin519 on Oct 12, 2009 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1. Orlando will not settle for 3M
2. Justin Upton would require more than Jurrjens and Schafer
3. They don’t need pitching and see Rios as their CF for the next few sesons
4. Plausible
5. Maybe but do we really want to pay 18M for dead weight, at least Lowe is still effective
6. Depends on price
7. Going to take way more than that for Willingham
by McCann's the Man on Oct 12, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orlando will be looking for 3 yr/15 million+ but he won’t get it. It’s plausible to get him for 2yr/8 million with incentives. KJ is probably going to cost 3.5 million so in my humble opinion; Orlando wouldn’t be a bad person to look at.
Justin Upton would not require much more than what I suggested.. JJ is MLB proven cheap an under team control at a low cost. Schafer is a legit OF prospect that is also under team control for cheap. The Diamondbacks need pitching in a bad way and they pick up Schafer and maybe someone like Church. Nothing more. If they don’t bite then you move on.
I kinda agree with you on #3. As I stated in the previous post it was not an ideal trade but Kenny likes to deal so I threw it out there.
N/A
I see your point with Mags but I’m thinking spending money in 2011 and 2012 say when Chipper leaves, McLouth leaves, Yunel gets his pay day, and so on. Also, Mags ended the season O.K. and would only be a stop gate for Heyward. It’s more of a business move.
Cuddy would be expensive in my opinion.
I don’t think Willingham would cost as much as you think. He’s a POWERFUL 4th outfielder that reminds me of Diaz. He showed some pop last year but his value hasn’t skyrocketed as much as you lead on. Maybe we can’t pawn our spare parts off on the Nationals but a trade consisting Church (Replacement Outfielder), KJ (Upside 2nd baseman and better than what they got), and a legit pitching prospect would at least get the conversation going. Maybe not but I’d have to see some precedent and past trades that are based on small sample sizes (production) that justify his new higher value?
Just a little rebuttal……. Your pretty on par with what I expected in responses.
by Charmin519 on Oct 12, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the DBacks arent trading Justin Upton
we can just forget about that. I go to DBacks games all the time and trading Justin Upton would be like the Yankees trading Derek Jeter or Mariano Rivera. They wouldnt trade his for anyone except maybe Albert Pujols (not sure tho since they probably couldn’t afford him after 2011 anyways).
Oh, and if we got Rios, Upton, Nady and Willingham, where the hell would Nate McLouth, Jason Heyward and Matt Diaz play? 7 man OF baby!!!
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 12, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t saying that we pick all of them up. I was throwing different ideas and scenarios out there. I’m assuming that your being sarcastic?
by Charmin519 on Oct 12, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha yes
I was being sarcastic on the 7 man OF part. Hell, with the way our OF has hit the past 2 years, maybe we should sign all those guys.
I was serious about Upton tho. He isnt getting traded
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 12, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Willingham: .863 OPS, .237 ISO, and .373 wOBA, if he’s your fourth OF then you’re f’ing stacked
by McCann's the Man on Oct 12, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
comparables via Baseball-Reference.com include Ryan Church, Jayson Werth, Luke Scott, Nate McLouth, and some no namers.
So based on the McLouth deal we give them Jose Reyes/Morton, Edgar Osuna,/Locke and Brandon Jones or Gregor Blanco? It’s not exactly the same but you get the point. KJ fills a need, Church would suffice as a replacement, and Reyes would be used as a #4 or #5 in their rotation they only raise their pay roll like 4 million and they filled two roles and replaced willingham with a comparable and upgrade in the OF Defense.
The Nationals need PITCHING, DEFENSE, AND A DIRECTION. They have Dunn, Zimmerman, Dukes, for power bats. Morgan, Guzman, and Flores are more than serviceable at there positions. THEY ALSO NEED A 2B.
You also might consider sending Kawakami to them as they will be looking for Garland type money and production starters to aid with the young guns. Even Lowe might attract them as they might go for a #1 Starter and Lowe would definitely be that for them. they have the money.
I think we have the pieces to have a good discussion with the Nats. KJ(Need), Church, Kawakami(Need), Medlen(Need), B Jones, Reyes(Need), Logan (Need), O Flat (Need), Parr, and some C type pitching prospects would be the only things the braves would consider giving up for him. We match up.
I just think we match up and it wouldn’t cost as much as you think. Were basically getting rid of parts the Nationals need. We could also explore the option of letting a pitcher go which would definately help out with filling other roles?
by Charmin519 on Oct 12, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
some other team would easily give up more than jojo, not jose, reyes; brandon jones; and edgar osuna.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your missing the point
I was throwing a comparable out there of what he is worth. Trades are based on precedent and comparable! Yes, a team is going to offer more than that for Willingham but my original scenario included KJ, Church, and a Pitching Prospect. Soooooo……..you told me that it would take more than that and that’s not accurate. Unless there is a bidding war for Willingham then the sum value of KJ, Church, and say Osuna would be about the sum value needed to acquire Willingham. It might not be those exact three players but the value will be similar. KJ fits a need, Church upgrades OF defense which is also a need, and Osuna would be a good prospect arm.
Whether or not those three are included is irrelevant. The value of the player J Will is the same no matter what scenario (aka players) the braves would offer. I could make a case that Medlen and KJ straight up would get that deal done.
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. Hudson had a $3.38 million base salary and with incentives earned $7.63 million this year. I doubt he’s going to take a $4 million pay cut.
2. There’s no way that Arizona trades a 22 year old, who hits for power and average.
3. Swapping Rios for Lowe would end up costing us money. Rios has 5 years and $58.7 million remaining on his deal plus a team option for $13.5 million or a $1 million buyout. While the it would save $5.3 million in 2010, and $3 million in 11/12, we would then have 2 years and $25 million plus the option. The guy really isn’t that good. He hit .247/.296/.395 with 17 HR’s, and 24 SB’s. Not only that but he was horrible in Chicago.
4. I like the idea of signing Nady. He’s a solid player and if he’s healthy he should be good. The problem is he’s a nice player to add to your lineup but he’s not the middle of the order bat we need.
5. I could see this happening. Maggs wasn’t that good this year but he should return to his normal self in 2010. The one thing that I would want in the trade is either the Tigers to eat $3 million difference in salary or send a prospect with him.
6. Cuddyer’s value is through the roof right now. He hit well down the stretch and filled in nicely at 1B. If they trade him there will plenty of teams offering something and his return will be a lot more then he’s worth.
7. Willingham would be nice but he’s like Nady. He’ll give a .260-.270 avg. with 20-25 HR’s. Again not the middle of the order bat we need. He’s also due to make around $4 million next year.
by jack dein on Oct 12, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't really rosterbation
but it’s some good stuff anyway. It’s on the ESPN rumors page and if you have an insider account you should check it out. Briefly it says:
1. There is a small chance that the Red Sox deal Papelbon. It says that he is getting pricey and the team may try to trade him. It also says he has a testy personality. It names the Tigers as a possible destination.
2. It says that the Rays are unlikely to trade Upton and are hoping that prospect Desmond Jennings is ready. If he is they may try to trade Crawford. They may trade him anyway if they can’t reach a new contract and put Matt Joyce in LF next season.
3. Gary Sheffield would like to finish his career with the Marlins.
4. The Rays would like to trade Burrell but its doubtful anyone will take his $9 million salary. They would have to be blowed away to trade Upton.
5. Possible Jeremy Bonderman for Milton Bradley.
6. Lackey will draw interest from the Cubs and Mets and could turn a great October into $100 million contract.
7. Bay and the Red Sox were close to an extension twice this season and now it appears that he will test free agency and the Red Sox may not want him as badly now.
Thats just a brief summery of the rumors.
by jack dein on Oct 13, 2009 1:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow Papelbon too pricey for the Red Sox??? Man if they may not can afford a closer like that very few teams will.
Yeah i figured they would have to be blown away to deal Upton, just too soon to give up on the guy in my opinion.
Would be cool to see Gary retire as a Marlin.
$100 million for Lackey wow i mean he is a very good pitcher but towards the end of that contract could be gettin messy. I dont see him makin that much though.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 13, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had the same thought on Papelbon. The guys a top 5 closer. He made $6.25 million this season and is arb. eligable in 10/11.
I had the same thinking about Lackey getting $100 million to. Although Burnett got $82.5 million and Lackey is better than him. Still don’t think he’ll get $100 million but $90 million isn’t out of the question.
by jack dein on Oct 13, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really, really dont like Johnathon Papelbon.
My favorite moment of the playoffs was watching Papelbon sit in the dugout after he gave up 2 runs to Angels in the 9th. I don’t think anything will top that moment in the 09 playoffs…unless the Skankees get eliminated on a walkoff HR or something.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 13, 2009 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You definitely hear a lot of crap around baseball about what a punk he is. The general consensus I hear from a bunch of players is that he’s insanely talented but hard to be around.
He has two brothers who are twins that play, Jeremy with the Cubs and Josh with the Red Sox. Jeremy seems to be a lot more along Jonathan’s lines, a guy that most of his teammates seemed to enjoy picking on because he’s not a good sport about it, but Josh is one of the nicest most laid back guys I’ve ever seen around a ballfield. No clue how he came out unscathed, but glad he did.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 13, 2009 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he just seems like a pretty boy who would whine whenever (Oh baby, 4 W’s!) he didnt get his way.
i also find it funny when he’ll walk 3 guys in a row with 2 outs to load the bases…and then he’ll go crazy when he strikes out the final hitter like he just saved the ballgame or something.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 13, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s that they can’t afford him but trading him now would be pure genius. His value is extremely high around the league and he’d easily be the best closer available so they could get some nice pieces back in a trade and then let Daniel Bard take over or one of their many other qualified SU men
by McCann's the Man on Oct 13, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If someone is willing.....
to spend that kind of money on Lackey would they be willing to deal for Lowe? Just thinking any team that’s looking to spend that amount of dollars on pitching might be interested in Lowe as a backup?
by Charmin519 on Oct 13, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s a good point!
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 13, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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