Rosterbate Here And Only Here
by cbwilk on Oct 1, 2009 11:26 AM EDT
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PrintThe Braves haven't been eliminated from the playoff yet, nor has the season finished, but the overexcited among up can't wait to start the rosterbation. So, to keep the clutter on the site to a minimum, we're going to go back the the old rosterbation thread. Please use this thread, and this thread only, for all of your rosterbatory needs. Any unnecessary rosturbation fan posts will be deleted. Please reccomend this post so that it stays at the top of the sidebar. Thank you.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Mr. Sanchez's deleted fan post:
With the year over, can 2010 rosterbation begin?
Tiny by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 7:23 AM PDT Comment 8 comments
McCann/Ross at C
KJ or Prado at 2B in all likelihood (one may be traded)
Esco at SS
Chipper at 3B
Heyward gets every chance to win the job in spring training in RF
McLouth or Schafer in CF
If Schafer wins CF, then McLouth in LF, if not then Diaz or Church here
Bench—Ross, Infante, Diaz or Church as 4th OF (do we use these two to delay either Schafer or Heyward in arb eligibility by leaving them in AAA until May/June?), and you assume they can fill the rest with Canizares, Conrad, Brandon Jones or Gregor Blanco, maybe Prado if KJ is kept around or they sign someone like Figgins, but the bench looks well covered for next year.
The only question in the lineup is perhaps making a move to improve at leadoff (is McLouth or Schafer really the answer?), and of course 1B. Possible options at 1B—LaRoche, Derosa, Delgado, Canizares or Prado if they go real cheap, Paul Konerko or Prince Fielder in a trade, and many others.
The pitching staff seems pretty sound. If we don’t get a good enough offer, there is no reason to think we can be as lucky with the healthy starting pitching two years in a row. The options here have been discussed pretty extensively around here, but it looks like either someone offers us a premium price for a starter or we go into next year working on extensions for Hudson and Vasquez to go with Hanson, Jurrjens, Lowe, and Kawakami. If trade or injury don’t clear a spot, then Kawakami seems like middle relief.
Speaking of middle relief, that looks set with options like Medlen, O’Flaherty, Logan, Reyes, Campillo, Moylan, and maybe Kawakami, among others like Craig Kimbrel and Luis Valdez in the minors. The question is who handles the 8th and 9th, and are O’Flaherty/Logan enough from the left side? I doubt they want to risk Moylan logging 85+ games in back to back years, so we definitely need some help. With the possible options out there (a trade with the Pirates for Capps or Hanrahan, sign Hoffman, Putz, or another former closer, or resigning one of Soriano or Gonzalez) at least one of Soriano and Gonzalez will go elsewhere and we’ll add the draft picks if not both.
So it seems like there won’t be a lot of moves this off season with the bulk of your 25/40 man roster already under control. So 1B (hopefully somone who can consistently produce in the middle of the order), possibly leadoff, and adding at least two arms capable of helping in the 8th and 9th. The Mets and Phillies should be strong offensively, but both have major work to do in the pitching staffs. The Marlins have the staff, and may have the lineup with talent like Ramirez, Coghlan, Uggla, and Maybin around, but I’m thinking most of the baseball media will be picking the Braves to win the East next year, especially if Wren can sign/trade for a consistent run producer at 1B and get as lucky with his bullpen moves this winter as he just did with his moves in the starting rotation last winter.
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I know, this isn’t really the beginning…
of 2010 rosterbation, but 2009 is now officially over.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 7:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If by officially….
you mean it is no longer possible for us to be in the post-season, then you are officially wrong.
“It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone.” A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Oct 1, 2009 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rockies magic number is 1,…
With 4 games left, we have to go 4-0, with them 0-4. It’s over.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duh…
I understand the concept, but it sort of seems that you don’t. If the magic number is still 1, then it isn’t over. Words mean things.
“It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone.” A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Oct 1, 2009 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the current context…
it’s hoping against reality. How about change "officially" to "indubability", is that better?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh no….
“My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3.”
by justincredubil02 on Oct 1, 2009 7:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
thinking…
Diaz and Church can play either RF or LF in a platoon. Are Schafer and Heyward fighting for one spot with the other in AAA waiting until they are safe from the dreaded Super Two?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could Diaz play all season at first?
“Hey Fat Kid…the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!” -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Oct 1, 2009 8:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 1, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for saving that...
damn, it’s a confusing read though in the comments part.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry about that. I wanted to keep the rosterbation under control though, we don’t want anyone going blind.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Oct 1, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand...
and still think the bulk of the roster is already in place. Seems 1B is see what LaRoche gets and if we can be in the mix, if not then comes the plan Bs—Glaus? Delgado? Canizares? Konerko?, do we get the big offer for one of our starters, and who closes? The Pirates look like an interesting trade partner—needing a 2B with a past closer who can be moved, among others. I also wonder if the FO is looking to have one of Heyward/Schafer start in the OF with the other getting “more time to develop” (and avoid Super Two) in AAA allowing Diaz and Church a couple months to garner trade offers or get some valuable at bats before becoming crucial pinch hitters for the stretch run.
With the potential pitching staffs of the Mets and Phillies, we may well be the consensus favorite for the East (although the Marlins look ready for one of their patented big season before a massive sell off to me), if not there with the Cardinals for the NL.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's pretty certain at this point...
That Schafer is going to avoid super two. At most, he’ll have less than a year and a half in his first two years.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 1, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So his 150+ at bats this spring...
started his clock?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
im confused on the super two thing? what exactly do yall mean by that
by Hcgadawgs on Oct 1, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It gets players who play a ton early in their careers into arbitration a year earlier than they otherwise would.
This also makes them eligible for full free agency a year earlier.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 2, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Phillies don't have as many holes to fill this offseaon.
Pedro, Feliz, and Myers are the only players of note that they could lose. Pedro and Myers won’t really change the perspective on the phillies, and they should have plenty to spend on 3rd (now that eaton is off the books). The Braves have far more serious questions to address this offseason than Philly (Soriano and Gonzo, Hudson, a big bat). They may well win the division in 2010, but there is no reason Philly won’t be the favorites.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 1, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did the club option not void with Lee's trade?
I had thought he would be a FA after the season.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It didn't
He’ll be a Philly next april
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 1, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So basically...
both teams need a closer (unless Madsen takes over the job for y’all), and the difference is we need 1B, you need another starter. I’d rather have to find a 1B than a starter in this market, especially considering the Braves have a potential answer already in town (LaRoche) and a desired excess to deal from if needed (one of the 6 starters for say Konerko, or Fielder, or another).
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 1, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not a philly fan
But the Phills have their entire pen back next year and should have a rotation of Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, and Moyer. Drabek should be ready by mid-season if they need him. They’re only loss in the regular lineup is Pedro Feliz, and they have plenty of available cash to replace him (Beltre, Crede, Feliz seem to be the best of the available bunch). With the exception of Ibanez, the rest of the lineup is in the prime years of their career. They also have some pretty good talent in the minors if they need to make a trade.
I just think the Braves have alot more work to do than the Phillies this offseason if they want to go into the season as favorites because of how stable Philly’s team is for next year and their proven track record with this group. It would be different if Philly had some issues to deal with this offseason, but their opening day roster for 2010 is stronger than it was for 2009 already because of Lee and Happ. That said, if the Braves manage to keep LaRoche and deal with the closer position, they should be a solid preseaon pick for a playoff spot.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 1, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Missed Figgins in that 3b market...adding him to that lineup would be beyond scary.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 1, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Not arguing that point,
but That’s philly’s only major need, so I’d assume they get at least one of those 4 guys.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 1, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
it's not their only need...
unless someone miracoulsly comes up in the post season that didn’t perform all regular season, they still need a closer same as Atlanta. Or did you not notice Brad Lidge’s performance this season?
Expecting Lidge to perform as badly as he has this year is as unwise as expecting him to perform as well as 2008.
Like most relievers, his sample sizes are small enough to assume that he’ll perform somewhere in between (remember, he was hurt for most of the begining of the year). Even if he’s that bad again, they’re still a 95 win team that’s gaining another 1/2 season of Cliff Lee. I still think Madson would do ok as a closer as well. Good teams don’t tend to invest too heavily in their bullpens, they spend on the starters instead.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 1, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Lidge is not a small sample size...
considering he completely fell of the cliff in Houston as well. That’s why he’s in Phily in the first place instead of still an Astro. Plus, they have already invested heavily in their bullpen commiting over $11 mil to him for each of the next two years, with the option in 2012. The man collapsed once, and now has collapsed again. I’d be more confident with Moylan or Medlen as closer next year than Lidge.
The man has been a solid closer only once in the last 4 seasons, I think expecting him to be unable to close next year is the opposite of “unwise”.
Judging any reliever season to season relies on a small sample size.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lidgebr01.shtml?redir
Looking at his stats, there is no reason to assume he won’t be better than he was this year, or as good as 2008.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 1, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Trying to say theres no reason to believe he will be Lidge/2008 again.
That wasn’t worded very well.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 1, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Who said season to season?...
Over the last 4 seasons, in only one has he been a reliable closer. That is hardly “judging…season to season”. Point remains, neither Atlanta nor Philadelphia has a reliable option in save situations under contract for the 2010 season.
I don't know how this became a discussion about Brad Lidge.
The Phillies have a 90+ win team under contract for next season (with Lidge having the worst season of his career), with a bunch of money available to improve it. Regardless of their closer situation, they have by far the best batting order in the national league coming back in tact with Hamels and Cliff Lee fronting their rotation and decent #3 and 4 starters. The middle and 8th inning parts of their bullpen will be solid. They also have a bunch of solid kids in the minors who could be ready next year or used in a trade.
Braves fans have plenty of reasons to be excited (espescially when Heyward and Freeman arrive), but there is no way that re-signing Laroche and getting a decent closer turn the Braves into the “consensus favorites to win the division”. The Phillies are just too good, and could very easily be the two time defending champs(once again, I am not a phillies fan, I hate the phillies).
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 1, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
when I said favorite about the Braves...
was under the assumption Lee’s option was cut as part of his trade, and I was obviously wrong there. With Lee and that lineup, I agree the Phillies will certainly be the favorite.
But Lidge became the discussion because you kept saying the Phillies only hole in the off season was at 3B, ignoring an obvious need to find a new closer, or at least someone as insurance if/when Lidge craps out again next year.
Blanton?...
not bad as a 4, but I’d assume they’d want someone other than Moyer in there.
And I think I’d rather be in our position, having Soriano and Gonzalez as free agents, than be locked into Brad Lidge for over $23 million the next two years.
Lidge isn't a bargain by any stretch
but he’s not going to cause them to lose anybody. They’ve managed to lock up pretty much the whole roster.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4ew-fwu2XT0DrpDLtMcrIg
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 1, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously?
You think Moyer is going to be in your rotation? The guy was awful this year, and he’s already eligible for Social Security.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 2, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
You are making some big assumptions there
I agree that the Braves have a lot more to do, but the Phillies are not in the clear. Happ may be having a really really nice rookie year, but don’t let that fool you into thinking he is an ace. He will probably settle in as a mid-rotation guy. Meanwhile Moyer is creeping ever closer to 50. How long can this guy stick?
Jimmy Rollins was pretty bad this year. I believe a sub-.300 OBP.
It should also be mentioned that Joe Blanton and Shane Victorino are arb eligible. That will cost some cheddar. Meanwhile Ryan Howard, Jayson Werth, and others are due for significant raises in their contracts. If the Phillies don’t win the WS and get a huge huge boost in revenue, will they pay up for all of them? They may need to make a trade to shed some payroll.
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 2, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Keep in mind that they paid 14 million to Jenkins and Eaton this season that will also come off the books.
They paid Myers 12 Million. Looking at Cot’s, it appears they have about 30 million to spend if they’d like this winter. Blanton is unlikely to get a major raise, as he makes over 5 million now, so Dicktorino is their only major raise. They should be able to fill their remaining hole with the money available, even if they cut payroll by a significant amout. The Cot’s link is 3 comments up and details all the raises they have, but they are in a really good contractual situation if they can maintain payroll.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 2, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Go back the 5 years prior to this one...
before winning the world series, their opening day payroll was pretty steady in the 90s. It jumped this year, after a World Series win, but as Andy said " If the Phillies don’t win the WS and get a huge huge boost in revenue, will they pay up for all of them?"
The link you have puts them at just under $100 mil, and doesn’t include the near $10 due Cliff Lee should his option be picked up either. They are already on the hook for near 90 with less than half a roster—Utley, Howard, Ibanez, Rollins and Werth in the order, Lee, Hamels, and Moyer in the rotation, and then Lidge, Madson, and Romero. Add in Victorino and Blanton, and that doesn’t give them much many to fill their holes, 3B or otherwise.
It must be wonderful to hit in that lineup.
.721 OPS, 77 RBIs, 100 runs.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 2, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
First time rosterbator...
C – McCann/Ross
1B – I’d like to see Laroche signed to a 2-year, $16 million contract – simply because this is most likely where you’d put the right-handed power bat, but I just don’t see a likely way to get one. But Wren has surprised me before.
2B – Prado
3B – Chipper
SS – Escobar
LF – Matt Diaz – full time. Hasn’t he deserved it by now?
CF – McClouth
RF – Heyward, when he’s ready. Until then, put Church out there.
Use Infante as the main utility man – all he does is come through in the clutch and hit.
SP – KEEP VASQUEZ!, Jurrjens, Hanson, exercise Hudson’s option for a home-discount, and Kawakami. Trade Lowe, please. Pay a portion of his salary and trade him for some young, cheap whoevers. Lowe is still a decent pitcher who will eat innings and some other team will be interested in that if we pay a portion of his salary.
BP – Sign either Gonzalez or Soriano – whichever one appears to be the healthiest, and let the other walk. Then keep Moylan, Medlen, O’Flaherty, etc. Try to sign a dominant closer. I’m a Billy Wagner fan.
You say to-mah-to, I say you're retarded.
by alligatorimpersonator on Oct 1, 2009 1:06 PM EDT reply actions
everything really depends if schafer is ready or not, if so, he gives us our best option there. great leadoff hitter and defender and has speed. gives everyone the oppurtunity to drive in more runs. im almost positive heyward will be ready and in right field to start off the season..sooo…
Outfield:
Option #1:
LF McLouth
CF Schafer
RF Heyward
4th OF Diaz
Option #2:
LF Diaz (no platoon)
CF McLouth
RF Heyward
4OF BJones
*trade Church for some bullpen help
Infield:
C: McCann/Ross (Ross catches for 1 guy all year like Maddux had, rest BMac)
3B: Chipper/Prado (play Prado at 3rd like once a week, and let Infante play 2nd give Chip more rest)
Short: Escobar/Infante (as back-up)
2B: Prado vs. Johnson in spring training
(Option #1) 1B: LaRoche (see if he’ll take a 1 or 2 year deal to bridge the gap to Freeman)
(Option #2) 1B: Hank Blalock (had kinda a down year so may not be too much, should be better next year
Starting Rotation:
Option #1:
Vazquez
JJ
Hanson
Huddy
Lowe
(KK to the pen in case an injury to a starter)
Option #2:
Vazquez
JJ
Hanson
Lowe
KK
(let Huddy walk and free up some money for “the big bat”, psst..Blalock!)
Bullpen:
C: Gonzo
SU: Moylan
LMR: EOF
LMR: Scott Eyre
RMR: Medlen
RMR: Kawakami
Don't want to depend on Gonzo as closer, and...
couldn’t you just put Infante at 3rd to backup Chipper instead of moving Prado (that is if Prado is regular starter at 2nd)
prado is more of a natural 3rd baseman and infante is better in the middle infield. it really wouldnt matter too much.
but i think it is KEY to have ross catching for a designated pitcher so Bmac dont wear down. also chip needs more rest next year. we wouldn’t lose alot with infante or prado replacing him once a week
from the non-existent rumor mill that is my brain:
braves get:
milton bradley
derek lee
5 million dollars to cover salary
cubs get:
derek lowe
ryan church
kelly johnson
in all honesty...
i think we can match up with the cubs. they need a 2b and need to get rid of a bad contract.
we need a right-handed power bat and need to get rid of a bad contract. our roster would be balanced and this gives us the resources to keep vazquez and hudson. this trade, if we were to pick up hudson’s option, would put us at 87 million dollars. it would give us 8 million dollars to re-sign either gonzo or soriano and shore up the pen.
Completely ignoring his attitude problems (which Bobby Cox won’t be able to fix, no matter what you think) Bradley OPSed .775 this year, which is right in line with the .775 OPS he’s put up for his career in the National League. He’s not exactly a power bat.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
This x40
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Oct 2, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions
milton...
is not exactly the center piece in that make-believe deal. he would be a 4th-5th outfielder with the braves and spell a young heyward once a week. i really like the deal because we are trading from our 2 big strengths: starting pitching and 2nd base.
why is 2b up in the air?
prado is a career .300 minor league hitter and career .300 major league hitter. his ops for second basemen is 2nd behind utley. why is it up in the air?
Because he spent much of the season as a part-time player?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 2, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
comments like these are ridiculous and extremely stupid. He played in 126 games with 440 AB’s this year thats well over part time player this year. Last year in 78 games and 228 AB’s that you call a part time player but not this year with all of these at bats. Lets call BMac a part time player also. He had136 games played and 484 AB’s this year he gets rest and Ross plays from time to time in his place and yes he had the eye problem earlier this year but Prado was hurt with an injury and missed time as well. Lets call Chipper a part time player as well he only got 484 AB’s. The point im tryin to make is all the time at 2B he got alot of 3B and some 1B you absolutely CANNOT make an argument sayin cause he is a part-time player that is stupid and silly on anybodies part he had enough at bats to be considered a regular he got almost as much playin time as Chipper and BMac. The guy only got 44 AB’s less than the so called regulars in Chipper and BMac. Prado missed time as well so that argument cant fly.
braves#1
THIS
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by Scott Coleman on Oct 3, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
McCann was injured during the majority of his off time and plays catcher, the most physically demanding position in baseball.
Jones, too, is an aging player who has been knocked for being injury-prone of late. Are you really wanting to compare his durability to theirs?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you really wantin to say that Prado has been a part-time player for “much” of the year?
braves#1
Absolutely.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
then you ARE wrong then just so you know. I very rarely say another person is flat out wrong but you are absolutely undeniably WRONG about this. Because for “much” of the season he has infact started MORE than he was on the bench. Im countin 3B starts and 1B starts as well so there is no question about this.
braves#1
Starting 50% of the games does not make you an everyday player.
If that is what you are implying, you, sir, are wrong.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 11, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Bradley makes 9 million in 2010 and 12 million in 2011. Not even the Yankees and Red Sox can afford to pay a backup outfielder that much. The Braves only have one starting player that makes that much.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
I think it's safe to say...
Milton Bradley has as much chance of being on the Braves roster as the Parker Bros.
What about Hank Blalock. He’s an FA this year and it wouldn’t cost us a draft pick. He’s got decent fielding at 1B and although his power numbers were down this year, he could possibly be that big bat. what do you guys think?
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
His power wouldn't worry me....
near as much as his health. Interesting target though, and could definitely be a solid right handed bat i the meat of the order.
ESPN has an insider rumor about the Braves pursuing Dan Uggla
But I don’t have the insider deal so I know nothing else… any thoughts?
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Oct 2, 2009 6:52 AM EDT reply actions
my thoughts....
it’s stupid. there are other holes to fill aside from the logjam at 2nd.
seriously? I definitely started this one way back like right when uggla ripped hanley. If LaRoche signs elsewhere it’s a great idea and even if he doesn’t it’s not terrible as long as you still get Prado 250-300 AB’s. He could spell Chipper so when Chipper’s in there he’s more effective. Plus after next season if Jones retires an IF of Prado, Escobar, Uggla, LaRoche, and McCann would still look pretty good. It’s obviously dependent on the price but if it’s only a few decent prospects (ie no teheran, freeman, kimbrel, delgado, etc) then I say go for it. Once again not me ripping on Prado just saying it without a doubt solves the power issues this team has
by McCann's the Man on Oct 2, 2009 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Would they deal him within the division?..
doubtful, especially to fill a glaring need for power on a division rival.
He’s a possible non-tender candidate due to his upcoming pay raise. We may not have to trade anyone for him.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
Where would Uggla hit for us?
4th?
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by Scott Coleman on Oct 2, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
there is no chance they non tender him, they will trade him if his salary is too much
by McCann's the Man on Oct 4, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
if teams know the Marlins can’t afford won’t keep him, why would they not just wait it out instead of giving up prospects for him?
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
because they don’t “have” to trade him. They need to clear two of Cody Ross, Dan Uggla, and Jorge Cantu. There will definitely be interest in Uggla, the Marlins aren’t going to give him away without getting anything
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Because trading means you don't have to compete with anybody else for him on the market.
Why did the Tigers give us somebody for Josh Anderson?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
how...
are the braves going to keep vazquez and hudson, sign laroche and uggla, and still have money for…well, anything? it’s not even possible. what you are proposing will add 28 million dollars to the payroll and still havent addressed the pen.
actually it’s very easily possible but it means only one of Kawakami, Soriano, Gonzalez would be back. Keeping one of those guys, trading for a guy like Mike Wuertz, and having a year of Valdez and Kimbrel would be fine for the pen
by McCann's the Man on Oct 4, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Lets see Kimbrel improve on lowering his walks in the minors first THEN we can see him in the majors so i dont imagine he will be in the bigs for a full year this year or at least i dont think he should be up for a full season this year in the majors.
braves#1
pretty sure Kimbrel is among those in the Arizona Fall League
which between there and spring training give him time to show improved control. Not saying he will be up all year, but he has time between now and next season to earn the spot.
now i never said he wouldn’t be comin up sometime next season cause i think there is a great chance he will but i was replyin to McCann’s the Man when he said havin Kimbrel for a year would be fine for the pen. I see the Braves seein how good he does and unless he just blows the Braves FO away then he will more than likely go back to the minors at least for a lil bit. I dont think the Braves wanna rush this guy.
braves#1
you don’t think the braves wanna rush this guy? You mean the same guy who spanned four levels of milb last year? Yeah he’s on the fast track and i didn’t say just kimbrel would solidify the bullpen. There’s also Valdez, a full season of Medlen, improved Moylan, and one of KK/Sori/Gonzo as well
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I realize you also said Valdez i was just talkin about Kimbrel. And its a huge difference rushin somebody through levels of the minors and just throwin him in the majors comin out of ST. I personaly think that they will see how he does in AFL and ST and then send him to AAA for awhile i mean he only had 2 games in Gwinett so im sure they wanna see more from him there or not but he will in my opinion have to sparkle and make sure he doesn’t surrender too many walks if he wants to come straight to the majors out of ST is all im sayin I mean he had 4/3 BB to K ratio in the 2 games in AAA so yeah he will have to sparkle pretty brightly to get the nod and even then he still may get sent down to AAA. I think this might be the same exact case as Tommy Hanson. That seemed to work quite well.
braves#1
i wouldn’t be surprised either way to be honest but I think we can expect Kimbrel to be a major contributor in the pen at least for the second half
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Not exactly.
Relievers have far fewer things to work on than do starters.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If they really liked Valdez...
Why wouldn’t he have been up this year more often instead of Acosta?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
and that’s not me saying it’s the best option just saying not to discredit it as being not feasible
by McCann's the Man on Oct 4, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
What about this?
Derek Lowe
Kelly Johnson
for
Carlos Lee
Dlowe would give the Astros a solid #3 behind Oswalt and Rodriguez and KJ would get to play every day in Houston. The Braves get that right-handed power bat they’re desperately seeking.
Thoughts?
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
Carlos Lee gets $18.5 m for the next three years and he’s showing signs of decline. Plus he has a no trade clause
DLowe is making 12MM and Kj is making 3MM. So its only adding $3MM or so and we add 30HRs, 100RBI, a .300avg and a .350-370obp. Maybe he’s declining, but at worst, he’ll hit 25HRS w/ 100RBI while maintaining his high avg and obp.
I’d do it. And I don’t know why we wouldnt wanna come to Atlanta. Houston isn’t going anywhere the next 5 years (their minor league system is garbage), not to mention Houston is a living hell to live in.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by Scott Coleman on Oct 2, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Just don't see the Braves adding that kind of salary...
in addition to blocking Heyward/Schafer with the longevity. If the team is going to add a massive salary (and remember, it’s not just 3MM, but over the life of the deals Lee is 8 figures more than Lowe), I can see it at 1B for the short term, but with the cheap options in the OF—Schafer, Heyward, McLouth, Diaz, I just don’t see that being the spot.
I wasnt set on Lee
I was just sayin that he’s a right handed power bat.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by Scott Coleman on Oct 2, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
He is, and a very good one...
and if weren’t for the fact he’s be immediately the team’s highest paid player, making over $5mil more than your “franchise player” in Larry, I might agree. But at that price, it’s gotta be a no. The idea of moving Lowe was to get salary relief, and this negates that idea. Plus the Braves have never spent that much for a position player, they’ve come close for a starting pitcher—Lowe, Hudson—, but never an everyday player.
Lowe makes 15 mill
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 2, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd guess there is a good chance that Astros would take that deal
Lee likes living in Texas. I believe he has a big ranch nearby. Houston can be a great place to live depending on where you live. Isn’t that true of Atlanta?
Lee has made it pretty clear in the last two trade deadlines that he has no intention of waiving his no-trade
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 3, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Kaz Matsui is signed to a ridiculous contract i believe. So second base wouldn’t quite be available.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
1 year left at $5 mil.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 2, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
apoxonbothyourhouses' deleted fanpost
BJ Upton anyone?
Tiny by apoxonbothyourhouses on Oct 2, 2009 7:49 AM PDT Comment 2 comments, 2 new
It seems that the Rays will be making BJ Upton available this winter.
Now, I know most of you will say “Thanks, but no thanks” but hear me out.
If we signed LaRoche to a 3-4 year deal (and based on his performance since coming back to Atlanta, it would probably be wise to do that), we will block Freeman, meaning he will, well, waste his talents in AAA.
If we trade Freeman and, say, KJ (throw in MLB ready player who NEEDS a change of scenery) for Upton, this will allow us to think about letting Heyward or Schafer have more time in AAA to season. While Upton is arb. eligible, he is still a few years from FA and will be willing to prove that this year can be chalked up to injury.
He’s got speed and power (both we need) and is RH. While he has regressed, I still think that a starting day outfield of McClouth, Diaz and Upton is good and McClouth/Schafer, Upton and Heyward outfield is down right nasty.
Thoughts?
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by 10-4 on Oct 2, 2009 8:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Also
why the hell would TB want a 1B? They have one of the best in Carlos Pena.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
“Wait, bait and bash.” – Jason Heyward’s personal philosophy.
by mvhsbball on Oct 2, 2009 8:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Pena is getting too old and expensive for them...
and is starting to get too expensive. From trolling their blogs/boards, it seems they’d like a solid 1B to groom as his replacement in the coming years. Of the pieces mentioned Freeman makes a lot more sense than KJ. With Zobrist and Iwamura, they are looking to make room for their glut of 2B rather than bring in another. Iwamura would be an interesting trade piece though, potential leadoff and solid 2B.
Getting Upton (or Carl Crawford) would be great, but it’d likely mean you need to send out Schafer or McLouth to make room, and Crawford has never really been a leadoff hitter-mostly hitting 2nd or 3rd. I would think we could possibly try and do Crawford for McLouth and Melden (or a solid prospect). McLouth gives them a kind of Crawford lite, but saves them salary which is clearly a huge factor for the Rays.
Read on MLBTraderumors
that the Rays are expected to trade B.J. Upton. He doesn’t really give us a power bat but he is someone who can bat leadoff and play CF. This would allow McLouth to move to LF. Upton hasn’t been good this year but isn’t far removed from being great. In 2009 he hit .236/..306/.359, with 10 home runs, and 41 SB’s. The one huge drawback on him is he K’s a lot 151 this year and he doesn’t walk as much as you would like 54 this year.
His best year was 2007 when he hit .300/.386/.508, with 24 home runs and 22 SB’s. He still K’d a lot that year 154 to 65 walks.
The other problem with him is that it’s tough to judge his value. Is he Francouer with better speed or is a budding super star. I honestly can’t think of what would be far for him.
Wait...
a .236avg and a .306obp?
No thanks. And if we’re gonna use him as a leadoff guy, I don’t want him striking out 150+ times.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by Scott Coleman on Oct 2, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
His avg and obp have been significantly higher the past two years...
this has been a very rough season for him, so hard to say what to expect in future years, but I’d personally take him over McLouth.
He’s been bad this year but he should rebound in 2010. He’s only 25. He was the leadoff man on the Rays 2008 World Series team.
LOL
I like how after I said no to Upton, he hits for the cycle.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by Scott Coleman on Oct 2, 2009 11:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Something on Upton...
http://www.draysbay.com/2008/8/4/585960/the-truth-about-b-j-upton
I’d love to land his type of table setting speed at the top of the order. But like I put above, adding him or Carl Crawford would mean McLouth or Schafer is the odd man out and has to go, plus at least one other major league ready pitcher/solid prospect for the Rays to make the deal.
I would take Crawford over any of our outfielders right now. I would gladly part with Schafer if it would get us Crawford. Crawford plays LF so McLouth could stay in CF. They would form a great top of the order. Especially if Cox let them run. Crawford is good for 50 steals every year and McLouth could reach 25-30 if he was set free.
what does everyone think about about freeman as trade bait? especially if RSF keeps it up, he brings pretty much the same thing to the table..
im not sure what i’d think about it, what about yall?
RSF was amazing...
in a short season league where he was older and more polished than most everyone he played against. I’m not opposed to dealing Freeman for the right offer, but certainly wouldn’t do so because of RSF.
If they can get a legit ML-ready bat, he's ABSOLUTELY tradeable.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The Case for Dan Uggla
I know this is being discussed above but I’m not a fan of insanely long reply convos.
Anyways lets get to it:
Case A: The bat.
I think its fair to say that Wren and Co. are looking hard for a right handed power bat and Uggla would certainly be that bat. He has hit 30+ HR and OPSed over .800 in each of the last three years. His average is not spectacular but isn’t really that big of a deal when your OBP sits around .350.
Often times we look at 30HR from a RHB and freak out without looking at other peripherals. His K/BB ratio as gotten better every year he has been in the league and he has just set a career best in walks with 90 so far. He also isn’t your RHB who struggles against RHP as he is actually better against RHP than LHP.
Case B: The Gove
I think the thing to take away here is the versatility. He plays a bit below average 2B but he should be able to play 1B/3B if he is needed. This would give us the freedom to extend him long term if we want to knowing that he can just take over at 3B when Chipper hangs it up. If we did trade for him early in the offseason we could pencil Prado in at 1B and wait on a value to pop up, should that be a 1M or so gamble on a Blalock or Glaus type FA, a nice trade opportunity, or space for Freeman to hit his way to Atlanta sometime next year.
Case C: The Value:
Some have suggested that Uggla is a non-tender canidate and I think that is crazy. I can think of several other teams who would take a 30HR 2B for ~8M so there has to be some trade value there. I’m sure the Fish need to move him so its going to come down to us outbidding the other suitors. Depending on who all is in the ring it may cost us anything from Medlen/Gearrin/Reyes/Hoover to something as little as Reyes/Gearrin/Marek but its really hard to tell. I would give up that top package but not much more for Uggla.
Now lets look at the money side of it. As a comp lets look at Hanley. Both are power MI with the same years of MLB service. Hanley got an extention that looks like this starting with next year: 7-11-15-15.5-16 from ‘10-’14. Uggla is obviously not the talent defensively or offensively Hanley is so I wonder if we could sign him to an extention that looks like this: 7-9-10-12-13(team option)-13(team option) from ‘10-’15. This would allow us to keep him under budget until Lowe/Kawakami/Chipper and maybe Vazquez/Hudson if we extend them come off the book.
Case D: Need in the Lineup
How nice would this look?
1. McLouth LF/CF
2. Schafer/Diaz LF/CF
3. Chipper 3B
4. Uggla 2B (with his 30HR .800+OPS RHB)
5. McCann C
6. Escobar SS
7. Heyward RF
8. Prado/FA/Freeman 1B
would personally...
put Schafer/Diaz 8, let Prado (maybe Nick Johnson?) hit 2. And I still don’t think Bobby wants McLouth to be the leadoff hitter next year. At the moment he is the best we got for it, but think the FO would like an upgrade there if it can be combined with filling another need/move.
schafer is your typical leadoff hitter if gets everything right. and thats a big IF. with Schafer and McLouth and base with that speed. Chip uggla and mccan would have tons of RBIs
that is not a championship lineup...
and aside from heyward, that is basically the same lineup we had this year, and the part of uggla was played by an amazing 2nd half ops machine by the name of adam laroche. bringing in uggla to replace prado doesnt make sense. prado’s ops was incredibly similar, if not better, than uggla’s. laroche blew them both out of the water.
prado and laroche>uggla and prado.
career ops
prado: .804
laroche:.837
uggla:.826
prado’s is the only one that has improved considerably in the past few years. the other 2 is pretty consistent. with uggla’s 2009 ops being 1 point higher than prado’s, this move doesnt make sense, especially considering it would cost about 5.5 million dollars.
your logic is way outta line...
uggla has almost more RBI’s this season than prado has in his career, uggla has twice as many homers this season as prado has in his career, im sure you were one of the one’s bitchin’ about a power bat and this is it…we have nobody to drive in runs, thats what hurt this team obviously, runners LOB…in uggla’s career he’s never drove in less than 88 runs and hit less than 27 homers, him and prado both debuted in 2006..so uggla has plenty of time to get even better…and all this on an inconsistent florida marlin team..put him on this ball club with some good young talent and mclouth and schafer ahead of him and he’ll drive in a 100 runs, and thats something that has KILLED us this season. this would be be a HUGE boost to the lineup. uggla is career better in OPS and SLUGGING %….i’m almost willing to bet you come back with the same “but prado has a .300 average, give him a chance, blah, blah”…he’s a below average defender but if you think he’s “deserved a spot” so bad it may have to be in another position or with another team if we have the chance to get uggla because obviously his .300 average didnt score us enough runs this year…get over it and lets get the BIG BAT we need
uggla...
is better than prado. he is a big bat. but why do you upgrade a position that we were basically tied with 2nd in the nl in offensive production. rbi’s are a dumb measurement of talent. jeff francoeur has 2 of them and he’s awful. run production, after the francoeur trade was not a problem….not even close to a problem. do you realize we were 3rd in the league in runs scored after the jeffy trade? probably not.
We were 3rd in the league??? Man, runs must have been scarce in the NL this year.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
That, and scoring 10 runs a game when you weren't scoring 0 and 1 will boost the total.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
so you pass on one of the best 2nd baseman in the league and on our team’s MAIN need just because all of yall have some kind of man crush on prado, yeah he’s played good…but i’ve seen too many of the sime kinda players come up outta the braves system and everybody get hyped just for them to fizzle out…so im holding off on this to see how prado plays out, i hope he proves me wrong and im pullin for him, im just not puttin too much stock in him right now….and did you know that we tied for 2nd place in all of baseball for runners LOB per 9, probably not jackass. and actually yes i did know were 3rd in theleague in runs scored after the jeff trade, five minutes on this site or watchin a couple braves telecasts and you’ll learn that…and rbi’s is very good measure of talent, and in this case its so much about talent rather than a team need…but hey, if your fine with the phils runnin away with the division again fine by me..a change has to be made to get more pop in this lineup or we’ll in this same damn position..
Are you freakin kidding me???
2nd base is our team’s MAIN need? That is absurd. I would say LF(unless we wanna bring up Heyward), First base(we will prolly lose LaRoche) and Closer(we could possibly lose both Gonzo and Soriano) so yeah i say that is a bigger team need than 2nd base.
You keep sayin how he will fizzle out. In 779 AB’s he has a .307 AVG, .360 OBP. His other numbers are solid as well, he will take walks he gets on base he does his job and this is over a year worth of AB’s so im STILL waiten for the league to figure Prado out. Maybe next year lol, hmmm…. but if they dont figure him out and he does good next year will we still hear the well we know some Braves players they MAY fizzle out lets wait another year. Thats prolly how its gonna be for Prado always proven his doubters wrong. Im all for the underdog, go prove them wrong Prado.
braves#1
i didn’t say 2B was our main need. somebody to drive in runs is our main need and if we find a player to do that and he plays 2B, then so be it…i don’t see us getting anyone for the OF and we’ll prolly resign LaRoche..so if we can get uggla then i say we do it..
oh ok lol my bad i thought you said 2B was our main weakness it just seemed like it. I wouldn’t be so confident in us resignin LaRoche. He is the best 1B on the FA market nobody else is all that good. It only takes 1 Owner and GM to really want this guy and give him a 3 or more year contract so i think the odds of us signin him to a 1 year deal is pretty low in my opinion. And i dont see a reason for us to want to sign him to a 2 year deal cause I see Freeman as prolly pretty close to bein ready, maybe by ST of 2011. He did great in High A and so so in AA but i dont really see that as a big problem. Maybe start him off again in AA at the beginning of the year and see how he performs.
braves#1
LaRoche will never sign for a one-year deal.
He’ll get a better offer, no doubt about it. However, we may be able to get him on a reasonable multi-year offer because he likes the city and his teammates here so much.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont really see a real reason in givin him a multi year contract to be honest with you. Freeman i think will be ready by ST of 2011 and sure we could deal LaRoche but the problem would be is would we have to eat some of his salary or take back a salary, i guess depends who it would be if we did that.
braves#1
Not necessarily.
If he’s playing well, we’d surely be able to get something for him without paying. The Angels certainly didn’t send over any cash for Tex.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy's only been a regular starter for a small portion of that data.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
uggla vs prado:
uggla’s 2009 ops: .813
prado’s 2009 ops: .822
uggla’s career ops: ..826
prado’s career ops: .810
prado’s power has increased dramatically in the past few years while uggla’s has remained the same. there obp’s this year were identical. uggla had many more homeruns, but uggla struck out 150 times while prado only struck out 59.
not to mention prado’s career, minor league and major league, has been pretty consistent in obp and average while he picks up power. i dont know why you cant place “stock” in a guy who has proven himself year after year.
and what does the runners lob/9 stat prove? that uggla and his 150 strikeouts will make it worse? i’m not saying we shouldnt pick up a power bat. i’m just saying that it shouldnt be at 2nd. first base needs an upgrade. the offense, after the exorcism of jeffy, was not the problem. actually, nothing was. we went 45-32 in the last 77 games, which is good for a .584 wpct. if the braves would have kept that pace up for a year, they would have won 95 games, good for a 2 game victory over the phils.
rbis are not a good measure of talent. ask theo epstein. i’m sure he knows more than you or i. he does put together some pretty good teams yearly. so, i guess you think jeff francoeur’s year where he hit 29 hr and drove in 105 runs with a sub .300 obp to be a success.
http://joyofsox.blogspot.com/2009/10/theo-we-ignore-rbi-in-front-office.html
i think a full season of laroche with around 25 hr’s is above average and will help alot…i think resigning him will be just fine.
If LaRoche is here a full year...
I see no reason he doesn’t get 30+.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s pretty simplistic view right there as i’ve mentioned before and you’ve ignored before uggla has been victimized by quite frankly “bad luck.” His BABIP stands ~.030 points lower than his career average while still maintaining close to the same LD, GB, and FB percentages. Prado on the other hand is right near his career average. This would more than make up the difference. It’d also be important to note that Uggla could realistically hit 35-45HR in the more neutral Turner Field instead of the Marlins home park.
I’m not saying trading for Uggla is the right move for Atlanta but he does represent an upgrade for us and fits what we need. Prado would become a full time starter in 2011 after Chipper retires and then we wouldn’t have to worry about a replacement for a few years. It fits into the budget and gives us a killer lineup for next year with uggla and a full year of laroche. The only deterrent imo would be the prospects, if we have to trade a nice package it’s not worth it but an average group of specs and I’d definitely do it. You have to remember that 2B, 1B, and LF are really the only areas we can hope to improve. 1B should be adam and diaz projects to produce a similar WAR in LF that Prado would at 2B so it’s really who’s available. Mike Cameron would be another name that interests me but beyond that the LF market sucks for reasonably priced options
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Clairvoyance.
Duh.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Uggla at 2B and Prado at 1B...
I know Prado doesn’t give normal 1B power, but Uggla at 2B would fill that void.
McLouth
Prado
Chipper
Uggla
McCann
Esco
Heyward/Schafer
Church/Diaz
not bad
I think Prado is a better defender than Uggla last i heard he was pretty brutal at 2B so Uggla would fit better at 1B in my opinion.
braves#1
not really. Prado’s sample size at 2B is too small to really make an accurate conclusion but Uggla is just about average whereas Martin has been below average for his career.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think Uggla is about average defensively but whatever lol. How has Prado been below average for his career when you just said that his sample size at 2B is too small to really make an accurate conclusion???
braves#1
he has been below average but i couldn’t definitively tell you he will be bad defensively going forward that’s why it’s too small a sample size. Uggla’s defensive results have been scattered but average out to well pretty much an average defender
by McCann's the Man on Oct 6, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions
ok, i personally think Prado can work hard this offseason at 2B and can make himself better and turn out to be above average defensively. I mean before this year there weren’t too much thought of Prado bein the main guy at 2B for the most part and prolly even in Prado mind but now that he knows he has a GREAT chance to be the Starting 2B out of ST he can just work on playin 2B and improvin himself. I really think he will, he just needs more time to prove it defensively.
braves#1
So what was he doing in years past?
That was the primary position where he was going to get PT unless Chipper got hurt.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Uggla’s like 5’8" though. That’s a short first baseman.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Wow, mlb.com lists him at 5’11"! Those guys are hilarious sometimes.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Uggla's pretty average, or a bit below.
Prado has been the brutal one.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
But like McCanns the man said Prado sample size has been too small to make a definate grade on for the future. I wanna see him play more of 2B before i say how bad he is. You may be right his Defense could be gosh awful next year with playin time but too much small sample size to know for sure.
braves#1
Prado has NEVER "proven himself" as an everyday starter in the majors.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
So what he did this year did not “prove” anything? How is that? So i guess Hanson didn’t “prove” anything this year as well.
braves#1
Hanson was an everyday member of the rotation from the day he came up.
Prado was an everyday starter for a few months.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Prado was an everyday 2B since early to mid June and has been the starting 2B ever since and before that he got playin time at 3B and 1B.
Tommy Hanson was called up in Early June and has been a starter ever since.
So what is the difference exactly??? Like i said he still got alot of playin time at 3B and some at 1B BEFORE bein named the starting 2B.
braves#1
Prado only started 75% of the games in August.
That’s not “everyday.”
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn’t that the time when he was hurt with the dizziness though or am i mistaken? Either way he was “deemed” Starting 2B no matter how you wanna say it.
braves#1
i definitely agree with you that Prado can be considered a starting 2B at this point in his career and is a good option to do so, what i’d disagree with some people on here about is those that say Uggla represents a minimal upgrade at best. When I see Uggla, I see everything we’ve been missing according to all the complaining that goes on around here during the season and an extra 200 or so at bats for Prado wouldn’t stand in my way of finally getting another solid middle of the order option to pair with McCann and Chipper. Like I’ve said if the price is over the top (ie multiple top prospects) then i’d pass on him but I honestly believe he could be had for cheap this offseason if we go hard after him.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 7, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Uggla as well i think he would supply the power that we really dont have. Im just not for Uggla starting over Prado and Prado goes to the bench, maybe we can move Prado to 1B or somethin so that they both are on our team. Uggla is that big power bat that we have been seeking thats for sure. He has a low AVG BUT he makes up for it with an above average OBP, he strikes out a good bit but he also walks alot as well. So he would be the right handed power bat that we so desperately need i will admit that. I have no idea how much he will make though somewhere around $6+ million maybe? But non tendering Church and KJ or trading them and not takin on salary and gettin specs or extremely cheap MLB guys would pay for Uggla or almost pay his salary this year. Wonder if Uggla or Prado could play some LF if neither plays 1B? I just want Prado in the lineup for a full season cause im sure he will put up a good AVG, OBP and help this team out alot. He proved alot this year.
braves#1
as Bobby just said Prado played some RF in the winter in Venezuela i believe. Between 1B, 3B, LF/RF, and 2B he would easily get 300-350 at bats imo.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 7, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
and anybody know how RSF is defensivly, it’d be awesome if he could be converted to a 3B for when chips gone. RSF and Freeman on the corners would be deadly if they both keep it up. but i have know clue how he is defensivly besides lookin at his 1B stats, and that dont tell you too much
I’d really wait until next year to put too much stock into RSF. I know he was outstanding for Danville, there’s no questioning the numbers he put up, they were phenomenal. But, he was 21 playing in short season ball.
If we’re going to be excited about a 21 year old 1B in our organization, where’s the love for Gerry Rodriguez? He hit .264 with a .802 OPS along with 23 HR and 83 RBI for Rome and Myrtle Beach and has the track record of success that RSF doesn’t have. Plus, he’s shown some ability to play the outfield.
Or how about Alberto Odreman, a 20 year old who played mostly for the GCL hitting .253 with a .719 OPS and 9 homers and 29 RBI in a short season. Not outstanding, but he posted a .895 OPS the year before in the DSL, so the kid has talent.
RSF had an outstanding year, and I hope he does it again and even better, but he doesn’t have enough of a track record to allow yourself to get too excited about him right now. And still, Freddie Freeman is almost 2 years younger than him and outperforming him 3 levels higher.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
my thoughts exactly
I really, really doubt the Braves are going to plan on RSF after 1 good season in short seaon ball. He’s 3 or 4 years older than most of the other players in the league, and like you said, Freeman is 2 years younger and he’s already up to AA.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by Scott Coleman on Oct 2, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m always leery of getting too excited about a guy in his first season, especially short season, especially when he wasn’t a high draft pick or a high profile signing. I’ve been all over the Christian Bethancourt wagon since ST, but he was a high profile signing and he’s performed well at age-appropriate levels.
Same thing with Scott Diamond last year; 21 is a little old for the Sally League, so his early season dominance was easy to overlook, but when he continued it at the more age-appropriate Carolina league, it was time to give him some props. And even though his record was bad, he pitched very well this year, again at an age-appropriate level.
I was given a lot of crap for not immediately drinking the Adam Milligan Kool Aid this year, but the guy was old for his league; he’s 6 months older than Cody Johnson. But, he maintained his incredible performance at the same age as RSF at a level higher, so I’ll give him more credit. He was a higher draft pick too, which add something for me. But, he’ll be 22 going into next year, so, for me, he really needs to put up a good showing early at Myrtle Beach to entirely convince me he’s legit. I’ve come around a good bit, but I’m still not completely sold.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Bethancourt wasn't his first year though...
it was his first year in the states, but he played DSL last year and did well, same as Odreman and I believe Falcon(?).
meant to add...
that first year in the US probably should add a little as well with the culture change to an extent.
trading for uggla...
makes no sense. you might as well keep laroche, who has a higher career ops than uggla and leave prado at 2nd for 5.5 million dollars cheaper.
yeah, im not crazy about Uggla either
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by Scott Coleman on Oct 2, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched a high percent of braves games this season and I am only sure of 2 things. Diaz and Prado deserve to start.
I believe it to start off like this
McClouth
Prado
Chipper
Mac
Esco
Diaz
Heyward
KJ
JJ, Javy, Lowe, Hanson, Huddy
release gonzo and soriano
Closer – Moylan
medlen o flaherty and the rest of our troublesome cast
The braves havent had the best attendance this season and I think they will look to stay in house. Heyward is ready and will be the big boost of a bat we needed this season.
Trade Dealine
KJ may get moved during the season w Lowe maybe bringing us a solid 1B or 2B. I think we should deal Lowe and KK. KK could come back and pitch way better next year it was his rookie MLB season and all.If we could add Derek Lee we are a championship team. I think KJ, KK, and Lowe makes a lot of sense. I say give number 5 spot to Medlen. Imagine Lee behind Chipper w Mac and Esco. If Heyward shows what we all know him to be capable of we would have a better line-up then the phils.
To many ifs
Your hoping that Moylan can close when he has almost no history of closing. Your assuming that you are going to be able to trade Lowe and Kawakami. I don’t care if we trade Lowe but unless we take on a bad contract or eat a lot of it he is going to be tough to trade. I would rather keep Kawakami as our 5th starter and let Medlen get work as a starter at AAA. I think one of Gonzalez or Soriano will be back. They are both going to qualify as Type A free agents and they will both be offered arbitration. There will be teams interested in Soriano and he will get a full time closer job somewhere. Teams are not going to be that interested in Gonzalez. Teams are not going to give up a 1st round pick for a guy that they are not sure if he can close. I think he accepts arbitration.
I agree that Diaz and Prado deserve to start. Johnson is a candidate to get non tendered. He will make around $3.5 million next year and the Braves can’t afford to pay a backup that much money. They might be able to trade him but won’t get much. Diaz should start in LF and Church should be kept around as a 4th outfielder. I hate just assuming that Heyward will be ready to start the season and then will be good right from the start. It would be great if that happens but you have to have a plan b.
As far as 1B goes LaRoach will probably be brought back but I like the idea of getting Lee. The problem with trading with the Cubs right now is that they are going through an ownership change and its yet known how much money the new ownership will want to take on. Lee is a good player and would give us that 1 year bridge to Freeman. The Cubs stand to lose some pitching this offseason so they could be interested in Kawakami but its going to take more then just him.
Teams are "not sure Gonzalez can close?"
He was at 90% in save opps before he was used like a LOOGY with out the OO this year.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
so pretty much....
the same lineup, so we can finish in the same second place again…GREAT IDEA!
...because that lineup played the whole year.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You did notice Medlen wasn't a very good starter, right?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Thinking 25 man roster, after listening to Wren for a bit today...
sounded like they think Johnson will be back. Closer and 1B, those are the question marks. I can’t wait until Campillo is back to help the staff.
25...
Johnson, Prado, Infante, Escobar, Jones, McLouth, Church, Diaz, Hudson, Vasquez, Lowe, Kawakmi, Hanson, Jurrjens, Ross, McCann, Moylan, O’Flaherty, Logan, Campillo, Medlen. 4 more spots with one likely Heyward or Schafer, and one among the other relievers like Valdez, Kimbrel, or Acosta. That leaves starting 1B and closer, unless one of the above 21 are dealt.
I take everything FW said with a grain of salt
No GM (well, no good GM anyways) is going to show his hand. Those were all just words today. We have no clue what’s going to happen in the next 3 or 4 months.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by Scott Coleman on Oct 4, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard to know if Campillo will ever be the pitcher he was a couple years ago.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
MY 25 man...
listen up frank…
SP: Jurrjens
SP: Hanson
SP: Vazquez
SP: Lowe
SP: Kawakami
C: McCann
3B: Chipper
SS: Escobar
2B: Uggla or DeRosa
1B: LaRoche
LF: Diaz
CF: McLouth
RF: Heyward
B: Ross
B: Prado
B: Infante
B: Canizares
B: BJones
C: Gonzo
S/U: Moylan
RH: Medlen
RH: LaTroy Hawkins
RH: Duaner Sanchez
LH: EOF
LH: Scott Eyre
**unless Schafer is ready, then McLouth, Schafer, and Heyward, left to right, but i’ll assume he’ll need more time
Some questions...
Why pay for a 3rd lefty who’s a veteran when you can have Boone Logan for the cheap? Sanchez instead of Campillo? If we wanted Duaner Sanchez, why has he been out of a job since May?
idk, im not lookin too much into the pen’ cause i know wren will piece something together…but i like sanchez for some reason..don’t know why he’s outta a job…a career 3.91 era…doubt this will happen i just saw he’s a free agent and i like the guy,,probably be cheap too…
just saying...
guy has been out of a job since May. Unless he’s injured, that’s a HUGE red flag assuming someone, anyone needing a bullpen arm would have likely taken a chance with someone having his #s during the season.
Favorite Brave 3's deleted fanpost
Dye for 2010 ?
Tiny by Favorite Brave 3 on Oct 5, 2009 9:02 AM PDT Comment 3 comments, 3 new
I visit this site often and read the posts and comments and know that you guys are pretty savvy on trades and free agency. Is Jermaine Dye a plausable candidate for RF in ATL in 2010. I know Heyward is close and am a big fan. I played 4 years at Henry County and later watched him play a lot there, he’s definately going to be an Impact player in the bigs but I’d like to give him a full year in AAA. What is you guys’ opinion on this and what are the Braves’ best option for some right handed pop in the lineup for 2010. I like Dye and Derosa and am a little partial to them seeing that this is Bobby’s last year and they both kind of started in Atlanta
.
0 recs | Comment 3 comments, 3 new | Add comment
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Dye is a plausible candidate, but I don’t really see FW going after him. Figure that Heyward gets a shot at making the team in Spring Training – if they decide that he needs a little more seasoning in AAA, he probably gets called up in June 2010 anyway. So maybe we need some kind of stopgap player in RF, which we already have in Ryan Church. Keep him around just in case.
“Brian McCann will be guest starring as Bizarro in Smallville this fall. See, he has to put his glasses on to become Superman.” -by Rhyno18 on Aug 4, 2009 5:52 PM EDT
by Chopaholic on Oct 5, 2009 9:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dye is an option
but his late season struggles scared me off. He has a $12 million option this year and its doubtful the White Sox pick it up. His defense is below average. He had a similar season in 2007 and rebounded nicely in 2008 so there’s a chance he could be good again in 2010 but he’s only getting older.
by jack dein on Oct 5, 2009 9:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dye’s second half numbers:
.179/.293/.297
I’ll pass, thanks.
by Lennox on Oct 5, 2009 9:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
My take
Decline Hudson’s option and let him walk. He’ll be willing to take a pay cut but he’ll only go so far and some team will pay him a guaranteed $8 million. The Braves aren’t going to go that high. Offer arbitration to Soriano and Gonzalez. They are both Type A’s and a team will pay Soriano but no one will touch Gonzalez if they know they have to give up a first round pick. Resign LaRoach for 2 years $18 million plus 2 option years that get picked up if he’s traded. Maybe tinker cheaply with the bullpen but nothing else. Could make a surprising trade but its unlikely with us having no major league ready prospects that we’ll part with.
Let Prado handle 2B full time and non tender Kelly Johnson. Sign Mark Loretta to a 1 year $1.5 million deal to be another utility infielder. That sets up an infield of LaRoach, Prado, Jones, and Escobar.
For the outfield we should sign Rocco Baldeli. He was healthy this season and wasn’t to bad in Boston. He hit .253/.311/.433 with 7 home runs in 150 at bats. This would move McLouth to LF and then allow Diaz and Church to play RF, with Church playing CF when Baldeli can’t go. He is still recovering but could give 130 games this year.
The rotation stays the same but the order changes. Vazquez, Jurrjens, Hanson, Lowe, and Kawakami. Make Gonzalez the closer and only use him in save situations or top 9 when the game is tied. Moylan can handle the 8th inning. Use Medlen and Campillo as your long men.
Carry 5 bench players, Ross, Loretta, Church, Infante, and whoever plays best in Spring Training ( except, Heyward and Schafer). Heyward and Schafer will both start the season in AAA.
We would then carry 7 in the bullpen. Gonzalez, Moylan, Medlen, Campillo, and 3 others who perform well in ST.
The batting order would be:
1. McLouth LF
2. Prado 2B
3. Jones 3B
4. McCann C
5. Escobar SS
6. LaRoach 1B
7. Diaz or Church RF
8. Baldeli CF
We wouldn't pay $8 mil a year to Hudson?
Why not?
Also, when we have four decent OFs under contract already, why would you go out and spend money for Baldelli and Church to sit on the bench. Do you think Schafer and Heyward will be down all year long?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
We already have 5 quality starters and if we bring Hudson back someone will the odd man out. The starting pitcher free agent class this year isn’t good and Hudson will get good money. We have other holes to fill and saving the money will help fill them. I’m starting to hear that Church could be non tendered. He should through arbitration make around $3.2 million next year. Baldeli would start in CF and move McLouth to LF. That would let Diaz handle RF with or without Church. I really don’t think that Schafer will be up this year until late. He wasn’t good in limited action this year and didn’t get that many at bats. Schafer could be a September call up or trade bait. I don’t think Heyward will start the season in Atlanta and most experts don’t either. He should be up in May or June.
Baldeli is a solid player who wouldn’t cost that much. We are going to have a hard time getting a big bat this offseason with only Bay and Holliday in free agency. That will drive up trade values.
Buster Olney said in his chat today
“But the expectation among other GMs is that one way or another, (the Braves) will get a big-time right-handed bat.
Any ideas or guesses who we could target. I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want Ryan Braun. I dont know what I would do if we got him. I think it would take this:
Jurrjens
KJ (They’ll need a new 2B assuming they don’t resign Felipe Lopez)
Cody Johnson
Cole Rohrbough/Brent Oberholtzer/above average LHP prospect
I’d do it. Would you? Ryan Braun is one of the best players in all of baseball.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
Kelly Johnson and Cole Rohrbough have pretty much no trade value right now, so that proposal isn’t really valid from the start. If you’re trading them a minor league lefty, guys like Jose Ortegano or Edgar Osuna would be much more likely.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
I disagree that Rohrbough has no trade value right now, I’d say his value is depressed but he’s a lefty with nice potential those guys always have trade value. Obviously not a good enough package but rohrbough isn’t the problem
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy was a little old for his league and he got rocked, even after performing well in limited time there the year before. He has an injury history and didn’t seem to be able to make adjustments as the year went on. If he has trade value, it’s of the Beau Jones variety, an extra arm at the end of a list of much better players.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
there was a slash next to Rohrbough, cbwilk. Rorhbough/Oberholtzer/above average LHP prospect. I wasn’t set on either of those 2, just giving examples.
and KJ had one bad year. He’s obviously not the centerpiece, but he’s better than any other option Milwaukee has at this point.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
"Wait, bait and bash." - Jason Heyward's personal philosophy.
by Scott Coleman on Oct 5, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems like if you need a second baseman that bad you could go out and sign a Jayson Nix/Brooks Conrad type minor league free agent and roll the dice rather than pay a guy over three million dollars. At least if one of the minor league free agent guys fail you’re not paying them a ton of money. That’s a lot more in line with the small market way of doing things.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
KJ is much better than Nix or Conrad...
in the right situation, a lineup with more right handed bats so his lefty can provide balance, with players capable of hitting in the one or two hole so he can hit 6/7/8, I think KJ production of the two years prior to this one or for the second half of this season would be more than worth around $3 mil. The Cubs, Pirates, and several other teams would be nice fits for him.
they already have Craig Counsell, JJ Hardy, and Rickie Weeks all better options at 2B than KJ at this point
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t say they needed him. mvhsbball did and I was trying to point out there are cheaper ways that are just as big a gamble to fill that hole. But yeah, those options are a lot better.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
i was just tacking on to your nix/conrad point
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, we are comparing KJ
to Nix and Conrad? I’m not with justincredible putting him as one of the best in the NL, but he’s a LOT better than guys like Conrad and Nix.
i didn’t agree with that, i was just merely pointing out that with 3 guys capable of playing as good or better than KJ why trade for him? I was just responding to the nix/conrad point not agreeing
by McCann's the Man on Oct 6, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Craig Counsell is better than Kelly?
You’re kidding, right?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m talking about the Craig Counsell that just put up a .766 OPS along with a 13.0 UZR at 2B, so no im not kidding. That is significantly better than what Kelly put up last year and factoring in price he’s a better option
by McCann's the Man on Oct 7, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
They've got too many 2nd baseman
Weeks will be back. Lopez probably not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they offer him arb and the unexpected could occur. They’ve got 2 guys in the minors who would play on most teams but have been blocked and are going to be minor league FAs.
Counsell wants to come back too. He’s the backup infielder. He plays good defense at 3B, 2B and SS. He retooled his stance and swing and hit about like KJ in a good year. He cost 1 million and would probably sign for the same and like I say, his role is backup.
You really think Osuna has much value?
With his low K rate, he’s not likely to stay successful as he moves up.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Osuna has a ton of value. He’s a 21 year old lefty who pitched better at AA than he did at High A. He’s already a pitcher, which is one of the last thing most guys pick up on. Nobody ever wants to give credit to guys without the strikeout stuff, but the kid throws in the low 90s and he’s got control of 4 pitches.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
I don’t know alot about Osuna but he is a lefty and him havin control of 4 pitches and if he doesn’t pan out as a starter he could be a good RP down the line. Lefty pitchers are very valuable at least the good ones are and at 21 yrs old he has plenty of time to be a big factor on a ballclub in the future at a cheap price.
braves#1
Asked if he was going to trade Prince Fielder or Ryan Braun, general manager Doug Melvin said on Wednesday, “I don’t see that happening.”
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t mean it wont happen. GM’s say one thing to the media and another to other GM’s if the GM has the goods and wants the player. I take what GM’s and FO says with a grain of salt. They never wanna “show” their hand.
braves#1
That's all well and good if they're vague.
But that is pretty freaking definitive.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Melvin has said in the past
statements that are the equivalent of he would trade anyone. But its not like he’s going to jump at a deal that isn’t great. They guy that I got the impression was a potential Braves trade piece was Hart and when he talked about that, he didn’t say he wouldn’t. He said he wasn’t motivated.
im sure we can go back and find other statements where GM’s sounded definitive and then did the exact opposite. Now when he says i dont see that happening well at the moment he prolly doesn’t. Now its gonna take a hell of a package to get Braun so that is very unlikely, but Fielder if they get a Freeman type, MLB ready 1B now maybe or somethin else and then another big prolly pitcher stud i dont see them passin that up with Fielder likely to start makin alot of cash in the next few years. So anything can happen.
braves#1
Well it shows that he made $5.35 million in 2009. So im not sure if he will end up makin $10.5 million in 2010 but he might, prolly $8-9 million more than likely still more than the $6 million that i thought he might would make in 2010.
braves#1
That is what Fielder and the Brewers agreed on a 2 year guaranteed deal. Im not so sure i would say Uggla is better than Fielder, that dude is a dang beast. And plus the team Uggla is on could always take the case to Arbitration and they could submit a bid about $7-8 million and Uggla could at $11 million or so and could be given either way or in the middle to around $9.5 million or so. Either way though you are right he is gonna get a nice payday. But i can see the Braves gettin a bat not sayin him but some bat cause with KJ and Church $6+ million comin off the books or may not who knows and then GA $2.5 milion we can get us a pretty good bat i would imagine at least to play LF hopefully. Its gonna come down to what we do with KJ and Church though.
braves#1
huh???
I think you missed my point or at first didn’t understand what i meant. I said that the Marlins might try to get Uggla at $7-8 million dollars somewhere in that area and Uggla might ask for $11 million dollars or so and if neither can agree on the terms then it will be sent to an arbitrator to determine how much the player will receive. Sometimes the team wins and they get the player at what they wanted him at or the Player wins and gets what he wanted. I know how arbitration works.
braves#1
Huh?...
“could be given either way or in the middle to around $9.5 million or so”
That made it confusing
lol yeah i see that is very confusing how i worded that. It could be interpreted as they could settle out of Arb at around $9.5 million if they had to to prevent goin through arb but yeah i didn’t actually say that specifically so i can see how it could be very hard to understand, my bad on that one.
braves#1
...Freeman is MLB ready?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 11, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
no i have said countless times in threads i think he can be ready by ST of 2011. Maybe you thought i meant Freeman, a MLB ready 1B but no i said Freeman, with the comma there meaning and a MLB ready 1B until Freeman is ready lol. I guess thats what you are sayin cause i know Freeman isn’t MLB right now.
braves#1
Because a GM is always truthful
about their future plans. Yep, you can always trust a GM to give you the honest answer when you ask them about their plans in the off season.
I know this come up every so often but has anyone ever heard Chipper’s thoughts on moving to 1b? I dont know how good of an idea it would be or how much sense it would make but it would expand the list of trade/FA candidates we could consider. One guy I might consider would be Adrian Beltre.
I know he is coming off a terrible, injury plagued year (shoulder problems, back problems, and one severely bruised bean-bag) but we should still consider him. Discounting this past poor campaign and his equally flukey 2004 (.334/.388/.629 45 hr 121 rbi) season, he has been a consistent, though not great, right-handed run producer. In addition to this he would mark a SIGNIFICANT upgrade defensively over Chipper at this point in his career. He is only 31 and has stated that he is more interested in winning right now than money.
Thoughts?
7/10/09-A New Dawn.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Oct 5, 2009 8:34 PM EDT reply actions
Oops.
Forgot to include this link to his career stats.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrad01.shtml?redir
7/10/09-A New Dawn.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Oct 5, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
chipper will not move to 1B simple as that
by McCann's the Man on Oct 5, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya, thats what I was thinking but I kept hearing people bring it up when I had never heard anything about it. Maybe I’m just guilty of regurgitating unsubstantiated rumors.
7/10/09-A New Dawn.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Oct 5, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think I'd want him to either...
for some reason, I think he’d be pretty bad there. Definitely don’t see him making scoops like Kotch or Roche
To the AJC on why he is pushing for us to resign LaRoche:
And its not because he wants a reason not to move to first base. He doesn’t plan to do that anyway, and he puts that in no uncertain terms.
“That’s not an option,” Jones said. “I guess if I have to say this through the newspaper (so be it), don’t even approach me. I’ve never played on that side of the field. I would be lost. People think that playing first base is an easy position; it’s not an easy position by any means. It’s a lot of footwork and a lot of things you take for granted as being easy that are not easy. I can still play third base. And I’m going to play third base. What if (Freddie) Freeman comes up in 2010 or 2011, you move me back? I’m not going to be a pogo stick.”
Gotta be nice for Freddie to think that a Hall of Famer considers you when he’s thinking about his future.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
I just like that Chipper puts it out there..
“I know all you idiots in the media and elsewhere think 1B is an easy spot where you can put any stiff and they’ll get it done. It’s not, 1B is rough and it takes a lot of work to be a good gloveman at 1st.”
Not gonna happen.
All the movement would be bad on his feet.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 7, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
cb, just wanted to say you’re doing a great job monitoring rosterbation. I hope deleting and pasting 3 fanposts a day doesn’t eventually break you down though. Folks,be sure and check fanshots too. There will be alot of links to articles and quotes out there from people ranging from highly reputable writers to Chipper Jones’ poolboy’s uncle.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
Thanks. I don’t think I’ll wear down though, cause I get so frustrated reading this crap. I check this thread and just shake my head at some of the insanity. And it’s still October. I can’t wait for the crazy that Novemeber and December bring on.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Holt_Panthers_Fan's deleted fanpost !!
Lowe up for SALE ?
Tiny by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:01 PM PDT Comment 7 comments, 7 new
D. Lowe on the trade market after only one season ?
Star-divide
According to a recent article on MLB.com Mark Bowman (link below) is reporting that Frank Wren is looking to shop D. Lowe in the offseason. My question is why ? I mean sure his ERA was very high for a pitcher of his caliber but man I just don’t like the idea of trading our number one starter for a Power Hitter unless it was a Jason Bay type guy in his prime which nobody would take for a late thirties verison of D Lowe. I still love D. Lowe and I believe his is still our best pitcher without a doubt. I loved the signing back in last years offseason.
I hope this is just more dumb Mark Bowman garbage which is what they guy is known for, but who knows ? Their is no doubt that one of our starting pitchers are going to have to go in the offseason but the question is who ? I just hope it is not D. Lowe. KK would seem like the guy to me but he would not yield us much of a return on the trade market even though he is locked up for two more years at a reasonable 23 million buck s I believe or wait that was his total contract. Anyway we do have alot of needs such as power hitting OF, 1B, Bullpen relief and closer.
Anyway I just hope this is stupid dumb rumor but let me know what you guys think – I will be pissed if D. Lowe is traded in the offseason, unless it is for a Prince Fielder or Jason Bay type player that we can lockup long term but that is just not our history.
Article Link:
Go Braves – 2010 NL EAST CHAMPS
Poll
Should the Braves trade Derek Lowe ?
* Yes, for a right-handed hitting power hitter that we can lockup long term
* No, he is our ace until Hanson is ready to take over that role
* Maybe, I think trading KK or Vasquez would make better sense
2 votes | Results
0 recs | Comment 7 comments, 7 new | Add comment
Quantcast
Our number one starter is Vazquez. Number 2 – Jurrjens. Number 3 – Hanson. Number 4 – Hudson. Number 5 – should be Kawakami.
Lower fell off miserably later in the season. He’s no where near our number 1 starter. I like him as a 5, sure, but he costs WAY too much money to be worth it.
Would love to see him get traded.
by ATLforlife on Oct 5, 2009 9:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not worth it plz !!
Man Vazquez has struggled in the postseason and I know we are all agreed that the Braves are going to be major players in next years postseason. Vaquez or Lowe or the mound for a game seven ? Hmm…. I will take Derek Lowe.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we’re going to base a player’s worth off one hypothetical game?
by McCann’s the Man on Oct 5, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not what I am saying.
Okay so if you trade D.Lowe what do you think you going to get ? You will not get a M. Ordonez, C. Qunetin, or a P. Fielder for him str8 up. So just keep him we are a much stronger team with him on our squad than with out. Look at the record he won 15 and yes I know that others did the same but he was signed to be our number one. I still believe he has proved his worth for ATL and come next OCT if he is still here you will be seating in your chair going man thank godness we didn’t trade him to a contender b/c we are going to be REAL CONTENDERS IN 2010 ourselves.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think people are too quick to get rid of/criticize Lowe however. I realize he is not an ace pitcher but he is one year removed from an absolutely dominant season. He had trouble adjusting to Atlanta heat and I know he had quite a few blister problems in the second half, sounds a lot like Hudson when he first came over. I think this is a down year and he’ll rebound next year. We have money to get a hitter w/o trading any of our pitching, it just requires some creativity in thinking of names instead of throwing out Matt Holliday, etc as possibilities. Guys like BJ Upton, Mike Cameron, Rick Ankiel, Dan Uggla, etc all still fit in the budget and also allow us to maintain our pitching depth. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see him jump back down to a ~3.50 ERA next year and everyone jump back on his bandwagon
by McCann’s the Man on Oct 5, 2009 9:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I love the idea of Uggla but what do you think it would cost to get him ?
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was on the original bandwagon, I never liked the idea of AJ Burnett_D Lowe is way better pickup.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
well
If the FO is successful in dealing Lowe like they are hinting that they will try to do i would be thrilled
Also they are talking about getting a corner outfielder and i’m fairly upset by that. We have DIaz, McLouth, and Church who could start in our OF next year. From there we call up Heyward sometime and we utilize Church as a 4th OF. IF Schafer is up then we could look to trade Church and use Schafer as a 4th OF’er and work him into everyday.
IMO if both Schafer and Heyward are tearing up i wouldnt be to upset trading McLouth and keeping DIaz in LF.
Call me crazy but i wouldnt mind opening the season with a lineup of:
Chone Figgins 2B
Diaz LF
McLouth CF
Chipper 3B
McCann C
Escobar SS
Church RF
Prado 1B
Heyward comes in and put him in Church’s spot.
church is looking like he’s as good as gone, Diaz as much as I love him is nothing more than a ~3WAR player, it’s really one of the few spots we could upgrade.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 6, 2009 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Off point...
I agree with you on Lowe and the thought he’ll be improved next year. His record this year was a product of the fact he was the only starter getting any sort of run support for much of the year, but he was at the general high mark of his career numbers and would expect him to settle back down closer to his career avg next year.
That said, we just don’t need all these starters. Having them is a nice luxury, but if someone gives the right offer we certainly have excess to move, and with Lowe’s salary and length of contract, he’s an easy target for a franchise on a limited budget.
If we get somebody willing to trade for Lowe and not have to include money then bye bye derek are the first three words out of my mouth. However, I don’t think we should pay a substantial amount of his contract to move him unless we get a nice prospect or player back as well and that seems to be the only way we’ll be able to trade him this offseason imo
by McCann's the Man on Oct 6, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
New idea for adding more power.
With our utility, multi-position guys (Omar & Marteen) available to fill in and Norton in all probability gone, we have room for a 5th OF / PH role. As Low risk & Low cost / High reward option, what about targetting one of the top vet RH power hitters in the minors?
Guys like, for example, 31 year old Mitch Jones of the Dodgers organization. I’m sure there are another 3 or 5 comparable guys who might similarly be available for a less than top 10 A or AA prospect, but this guy could very realistically make a substantial contribution and the Dodgers obviously