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Is It Me...?

...or does it seem like the Braves these days are relying on Bobby Cox to do a lot of the PR work in Frank Wren's place. Is Bobby the only thing left that players in Atlanta cling to?

 

Seems to me that whenever things are down, he's making calls, trying to pull people back in, mending bridges, etc...

When are they going to stop taking advantage of Bobby as "company man"? I don't know any other coach or manager in sports who is used (and abused) quite like Bobby.

0 recs  |  Comment 63 comments

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joe paterno?

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 8, 2009 5:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Bobby Bowden?
Joe Torre (Yankees)?
Phil Fulmer? Dude got shafted this year. Look at his record unimaginable that they forced him out ? I fucking hat TN and fucking HATE fulmer but I still think he got shafted. Was promised admin position if stepped down and then they backed out of the deal. Shitty

Finally, Tommy Tuberville- 1 bad season after 7 good seasons and built Auburn PR/Recruiting up/National exposure and BAM off you go.

by Charmin519 on Jan 8, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for reminding me about the state of Auburn and Tennessee football. At least some things can cheer this Bama boy up.

by penno on Jan 8, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Amen to Tuberville

I attend BC now as I think some of you know but I grew up an Auburn fan. What they did to Tuberville was a DESCRASE!!! He was the only Auburn Coach to ever beat Alabama 6 straight years. He went undefeated in 04’ and might of won the championship if the BCS wasn’t so fucked up. Also on the subject of Auburn football, they made a terrible choice in hiring Chizik. After the firing of Tommy I was outraged, but atleast after I heard the names of the new potential canidates I got excited. They said Paul Johnson, Jimbo Fisher, and Turner Gill were their main guys. WTF were they thinking in hiring Gene Chizik!

"The only time the Mets win is in the offseason"

by Falconzfan284 on Jan 8, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know Chizik was the defensive coordinator in 04’ but cordinating and head coaching are two totally different things.

"The only time the Mets win is in the offseason"

by Falconzfan284 on Jan 8, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Have fun with Chizik. I live in Nebraska so we played Iowa St. every year and I honestly don’t think he knows how to be a head coach. He had the talent at Iowa St. to win more than 5 games in 2 years.

by jack dein on Jan 9, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i have no idea how you spelled “disgrace” so badly.

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 8, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At least..

you figured out what it was supposed to be….I thought is was “disease”….

by sddbaker on Jan 9, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tuberville

I have no pity for him after he stiffed Ole Miss a few years back by leaving for another SEC team. Screw Him, now we’ve got Houston Nutt and he’s been fired. We beat Texas Tech and Florida. Ole Miss, preseason #1 in 2009 LOL. Also, if Alabama had half the imgination on offense Ole Miss had this year they’d be NCAA champions right now.

by robking on Jan 9, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bill Parcells?

by coldriver10 on Jan 8, 2009 5:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

he’s not a coach anymore, but i like the way you’re thinking

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 8, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But he’s such a people-person!

by coldriver10 on Jan 8, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm just sayin'.

everyday liberty media and frank wren are making it a little easier for ted to by this franchise back. keep up the good work frank.

by GORILLATUX on Jan 8, 2009 5:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

A story about Frank Wren

Sept. 17, 1999 — Cal Ripken Jr. is delayed in traffic and calls the team’s traveling secretary to assure him that he’d be arriving at the airport within the next 10 minutes. At Wren’s order, however, the plane takes off without Cal, who arrives at the gate a few minutes later and has to make his own travel arrangements. When Wren is fired after the season, part of the announcement reads: "In the opinion of management, there was no need for such an arbitrary and inflexible decision. In the meeting, Wren defiantly dismissed our concerns, characterized them as ’silly’ and insisted he would invoke the same takeoff order no matter what the extenuating circumstances. The Orioles management cannot and will not abide having a GM operate in such an unreasonable, authoritarian manner and treat anyone this way, especially someone such as Cal who has done so much for the Orioles and for baseball."

Is it possible Frank believes he’s above John Smoltz? Is it possible that Smoltzie is tired of Shuerholz and Frank? Is it possible he simply sees the organization going in the completely wrong direction and wanted to make a statement?

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 5:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Is it possible that people can change over the course of ten years and this anecdote has no bearing on any current situations?

by cbwilk on Jan 8, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)

by FrankyWren on Jan 8, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Speculation at best

So fucking what. There are so many bosses that when they say 8 AM they mean it. Wren is no different. When I tell my guys to be at work and they show up 15 minutes late I tell them to go home for the day with no pay. I don’t got time for bullshit excuses. You got traffic leave earlier. You don’t like the commute move. You can’t move get a job closer. Shit happens but at the same time if Wren was fired because of that then the Orioles deserve to continue to have a shitty as team year in and year out. Good Day Sir

by Charmin519 on Jan 8, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Your argument

Is to support a man that is supposed to make logical business and/or non business decisions. Ok, great news to hear…Frank decided to disrespect the face of the franchise (and a baseball icon), a decision no one else supported, and knowing Cal would show up in ten minutes, did it anyway. That sir, is ridiculous. You might think it’s all about business, and making smart business moves, but it isn’t. A lot of it has to do with upholding a solid ethical character. Men like Cal Ripken Jr, Bobby Cox, John Smoltz, and Tom Glavine fall under this category. The Orioles don’t suck because they fired Frank. Are the Braves better off right now because Frank is the GM? One would argue strongly that as an idiotic statement.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Orioles did not fire him because of that

You also don’t even know the circumstances so my argument was to give Wren the benefit of the doubt first. It is all about business and smart moves include PR which Wren did not incorporate with this decision. I can think of 20 different reasons why Wren would have pushed for the takeoff. The fact is we don’t know why the decision was made so I will give the benefit of the doubt to the decision maker and not the talent.

by Charmin519 on Jan 8, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Where did I say?

Where did I say they fired him because of that? You can give Frank the benefit of the doubt all you want, it still doesn’t change what happened in the end. Also, waiting ten minutes is not a business decision. Cal’s career was ending. Frank was still trying to make a name for himself. You don’t try to trump a hall of famer as a Jr GM. It leaves a crap taste in everyone’s mouth. If Frank was so great and justified, why would the front office say anything about it after Frank was axed? Wouldn’t it be a non issue?

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude the man was more than ten minutes late. Your already in the fucking airport with ten minutes to go.

Because it didn’t sit well with the fans and Cal was retiring. The man was not fired for that and the organization made comments because they took up for their boy. Its called Public Relations. Every major company or organization uses this tool to relay their thoughts, opinions, stances, on a number of different situations. They also use it to hide internal struggles, back door deals,bureaucratic bull shit, internal dislike because someone fucked someones wife, bad moves, good moves, etc…….It’s all perception and the public believes everything they here. That was just a reason to get the fans on board with the termination.

Also this is what you said

When Wren is fired after the season, part of the announcement reads: “In the opinion of management, there was no need for such an arbitrary and inflexible decision. In the meeting, Wren defiantly dismissed our concerns, characterized them as ’silly’ and insisted he would invoke the same takeoff order no matter what the extenuating circumstances. The Orioles management cannot and will not abide having a GM operate in such an unreasonable, authoritarian manner and treat anyone this way, especially someone such as Cal who has done so much for the Orioles and for baseball.”

So you basically insinuate that part of the reason for his dismissal was this situation. Because you specifically state the managements side on the issue as part of the reason for his dismissal. So that’s where you said it.

by Charmin519 on Jan 8, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Quotes

Those quotes were from big shot Franky’s boss at the time.. Sorry, I just copied and pasted an article.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Or

You could just fire someone for undisclosed reasons…but why do that? Lets just make it dramatic

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You honestly don’t think that pointing out a circumstance in which Wren tea bagged Cal wouldn’t give the fans something to cheer about. You don’t think that the firing would be given complete blessing from entire community. Come on.

by Charmin519 on Jan 8, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Is a title here necessary?

Dude, obviously you could see things from both sides. I just so happen to believe that Frank does fit this desrcription somewhat. The truth emerged that Frank pissed quite a few people off, and one of them just so happened to be one of the classiest and dedicated ball player in recent history, the other was his boss.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

peter angelos? one of the biggest hands-on, nutbag owners in baseball?

REALLY bad guy to bring up when it comes to firing someone based on logic. essentially, wren didn’t do everything he told him, and got canned as a result.

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 8, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

The same rules should apply to every employee no matter if they are a superstar or a scrub. Cal was late, leave without him, I would bet a million dollars that this wouldn’t have been an issue if Billy Ripken would have been the one showing up late.

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Very True

First off, Frank Wren isn’t Billy Ripken. Secondly, it was in 99, two years before Cal retired with a hall of fame career. That’d be like Frank pulling the same stunt with Smoltz right now (or before he got away). Frank is replaceable. Smoltz or Cal Ripken are not. They’ve earned the right to request a ten minute wait.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Depends on the circumstances.

Maybe this wasn’t the first time..
Maybe this was a direct or indirect undermine to Wren.
Maybe it was to set an example to other players
Maybe Cal disrespected Wren in some way.
Maybe a large storm was in the path of the plane and possible delays if not on time.
Maybe connecting flight was very close time frame.
Maybe Cal was more than ten minutes late. Seems he would have already been at the airport if he only had ten minutes to go.

You just don’t know so you give the benefit of doubt to the man who made the decision. Maybe he was wrong but he’s the bosses make decisions sometimes that not everyone likes.

by Charmin519 on Jan 8, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If...

If Frank Wren was big daddy boss man, his decision would have stood without question, and he wouldn’t have been fired. Obviously he wasn’t above Cal or the front office. Cal did more for that city in a season than Frank has done in his entire career. Like I said, Frank may be a good business man in some ways, but good business men are a dime a dozen.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe im wrong....

Ive flown numerous times and have been through many different airports, and never have i ever seen a professional sports team setting in security or waiting by a termal to get on a flight. Im pretty sure that they fly a little differently from your everyday person. So saying a connecting flight was a legitimate reason to leave doesnt make sense to me nor does he should have been there earlier, to what sit in security. That doesnt matter.

Frank Wren is an idiot, im trying to think right now whats one good he has done since he took the gm spot. Tex? last time i checked, that didnt do shit for us. This John Smoltz thing is rediculous, I hope he has a career season this year. He deserves it, He’s a class act.

by Chipfan04 on Jan 8, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

last time i checked, that didnt do shit for us.

Really? Maybe you should check again. And it is spelled ridiculous.

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

Im glad all you could pull from that is a spelling error.

by Chipfan04 on Jan 8, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually pulled a quote also...
Tex? last time i checked, that didnt do shit for us

How do you figure?

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was more speaking of Wren, and i Mark was here for a half of a season and we went no where. Although we did lose some of farm talent, so i guess that did work in our benefit.

by Chipfan04 on Jan 8, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Failed!!!

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Travel

The Braves went through the terminal of the airport in Toronto this year ( I believe it was due to customs), but as far as I know, teams used to go through the terminals. Nowadays, the plane is sitting on the tarmac and the team bus pulls up directly to the plane.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Last time I checked

Frank Wren didn’t trade away the farm for Tex, that was everyone’s hero JS. Last time I checked Frank Wren got the best possible deal he could for Tex when it was apparent that he needed to move him. Last time I checked Frank Wren acquired Will Ohman and Omar Infante for a minor league bullpen arm. Last time I checked Frank Wren acquired a workhorse starting pitcher for a mid tier prospect and three pieces of bacon. Don’t sleep on the good that Frank Wren is doing for this team.

by JFP on Jan 9, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I never said that Frank Wren was Billy Ripken....

I said that if Billy Ripken (Scrub) showed up late to the airport that the Orioles management wouldn’t have cared if the plane would have left without him. However, because it was Cal (Superstar), the management was upset. That is ridiculous, to me a player is a player and baseball is a business.

If I have an employee that has worked for me for 20 years and he starts showing up late to work, he will be reprimanded, or fired if it continues. If he isn’t I am setting up a bad situation with the rest of my employees because then they will think that it is acceptable to show up late, or they will resent the Superstar because he gets special privileges above and beyond his already ridiculous salary.

I would pat Frank Wren on the back for leaving Cal, he should have been there on time like the rest of the team.

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The big picture

Cal was well liked and respected in the club house and around the game. He earned this through the years he devoted to the team and to the game. The way it works in baseball, is like a ranking. Everyone knows how you stand, and everyone knows what’s most important, but you don’t wear stars on a helmet, and you don’t need to talk about it. It is the way it is. You may “think” you’re somebody, but just because you hold a title in the front office, it doesn’t make you respected by the team or anyone else. I promise you, that Frank was the only guy on that plane pushing for takeoff immediately.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right about the superstar aspect..

And yes, he should have been there on time..But so what? Thats how it is in the Big Leagues..It’s not just black and white. Who’s to say Cal becomes GM of another team or becomes the GM of the Orioles some day, and Frank pops his head through the door asking for a job. You gotta play it smarter to the big wigs in the game.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cool!!

Maybe the players should run the teams. Maybe there should be no rules for the players at all, they should be able to do what they want when they want, especially the Superstars, because it is the big leagues and they are the faces of the teams, not the management.

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree with that, and agree with your sarcasm

I think the problem was that he was so unflexible to a man that had done more for the team than anyone in the history of the city. He came across as “authoritarian” to the people he worked for. Sorry, but it says a lot about his character. Maybe as CBWilk said, he’s changed. I tend to disagree and see some of it left.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I see George Steinbrenner as an authoritarian...

it worked out pretty well for him.

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True

But for some strange reason actually owning the team has something to do with it

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree....

Oh well. I guess we just do not agree on how to handle talent.

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you in most ways

But I believe Cal earned the right to fly with the team that day..

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oops (add needed)

And he didn’t just earn it by his “talent”

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Is it possible that Smoltz is unwilling to admit his shortcomings?

Namely, his broke-ass elbow/arm/shoulder. When he goes on the DL 1/3 of the way through the season, this will all be a moot point. It’s sad, but it’s the best thing for our franchise right now. Moving on.

"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)

by FrankyWren on Jan 8, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you know that 1/3 of the way through the season, he’ll probably still be on the DL, right?

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 8, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Smoltz

One of the biggest reasons if not “The” reason for him trying to come back, was to prove to himself, and people like you, that he could do it. The man is physically a freak, and enjoys the challenge of upholding that status.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

haha

"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)

by FrankyWren on Jan 8, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Smoltz

Don’t you find it odd that in what seems to be an informal goodbye to the Braves, that Smoltzy says “I have always loved the city of Atlanta, and it will always be my home,” Smoltz said in the statement. “I will cherish my 21 years with Bobby Cox and all my Braves teammates. I continue to wish the Atlanta Braves nothing but success in the future.” .
He didn’t mention Shuerholz, or Frank. I believe that there is something going on that he hasn’t said.

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It has been said before that Smoltz doesn’t like the front office of the Braves and that includes JS (the homeboy upstairs) and FW now.

by H0SS on Jan 8, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you still like Frank?

by Whodunnit?4040 on Jan 8, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

how 'bout the fact that cal showed up for 2000+ games in a row

what does that mean for credibility?
Obviously, wren is a douchebag. he doesn’t know how to handle talent. i’m not a big ripken fan, but i have a hard time finding any flaws in the guys character. if there was an incident involving ripken and wren (or smoltz, or chipper), i’m gonna side with the guy that earned credibility with 15-20 years in the business while under the watchful eye of a merciless media. Fuck Frank Wren and his business degree.

by Lee-Roy Jenkins on Jan 9, 2009 3:23 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Stop Breathing.

Will you please end your existance as soon as possible? Can you please take as many idiots that think as you do as possible with you? Thanks.

by ejruiz on Jan 9, 2009 7:16 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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