ESPN reports Burrell to Rays
by schaef888 on Jan 5, 2009 3:06 PM EST
50 comments
I hate Burrell as much as the next guy but at 2/$16M, why were we not in on this? Seriously, he puts up 30 HRs & 100 RBIs every year. ATL has proven it can handle a middle of the order bat putting up a .250 average. His biggest deficiency is defense. I don't like that either. Again, for an $8 million commitment for only two years. That seems like a no brainer. word
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I Totally agree!! Knowing how the other FA options out there and is not looking good. Bradley (Cubs), Ramirez (Dodgers), and will probably leaves us with a choice of Griffey, Abreu, and Dunn. I don’t like the first two options which leaves Dunn. So sign Dunn or better figure out a deal with the Yanks for Nady/Swisher. Either way FW has lost a BIG opportunity with Burrell!
Excellent signing for the Rays all around, especially since he can be stashed at DH full time.
I’m not sure if I would’ve bid higher than what the Rays paid. Burrell’s a +18 BRAA, -7.5 POS, -15 DEF, +20 REP = ~1.5 wins above replacement as a left fielder.
Damn right
$8M a year for only a 2 year commitment. I would have loved to watch Burrell butcher plays in LF and smack the ball all over the park at that price. Wish we had a chance to match that.
As soon as one of Abreu and Dunn sign somewhere else I’ll start my “bring Klesko back from retirement” campaign.
-1000 for being a dick.
and he doesn’t even need to play the field in tampa…seriously, dude is getting paid to sit on his ass for all but 4 times a game. and he’s not THE FORCE anymore, he’s projected in like the 6-hole. tremendous signing, i like it more as time goes on
i also like talking to phillies fans, who are slowly coming to the realization that they downgraded in left for more money
BIG JOE SUCK ONE
Makes sense for the Rays...but not for the Braves.
best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)
What’s your signature mean? Omar Vizquel WAS the best defensive shortstop of all time.
"The only time the Mets win is in the offseason"
by Falconzfan284 on Jan 5, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
O, I definately wouldn’t say best in baseball, but he never makes errors. He just doesn’t have that same step he used to.
"The only time the Mets win is in the offseason"
by Falconzfan284 on Jan 6, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
It comes down to more than just not making errors. If player A’s range is so poor that he gets to 10 less balls than player B…does that make player B worse if he made 3 errors during those 10 plays?
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 6, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
No but Vizquel used to have the range aswell. I know he doesn’t have it anymore which is why I don’t think he is the best in baseball.
"The only time the Mets win is in the offseason"
by Falconzfan284 on Jan 6, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
odds are at 42 or w/e his range has diminished… and to be fair i was drastically shocked when i saw Vizquel’s UZR/150 was like +14 or something, which is pretty good… and he was +20 on 2007, which shocked me.
Again i would liek to see his +/- metrics because without both you dont have a complete analysis IMHO
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
Last three seasons.
+9, +20, +7
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 6, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
thank you
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
WOW I can’t go into stats that deeply, I mean I looked them up so I could figure out what the fuck you were talking about. :-) But I sure as hell can’t argue with that.
"The only time the Mets win is in the offseason"
by Falconzfan284 on Jan 6, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that for that price, the Braves should have at least put an offer in, but this does have a pretty nice impact on the rest of the free agents, at least as far as teams are concerned. If a guy like Burrell is only getting 8 million a year, then other guys, who have far larger question marks, are going to get less than that. And Dunn’s marked likely goes down too; he can’t go out and ask for 12 or 15 million, cause teams will say Burrell only got 8. They’ll just wait for his expectations to come back to reality.
All this about expected prices is speculative, but the creation of a baseline for the market is real. Pretty interesting.
Holy Cow
When I first read the report I swore it was 2 years at 16 milllion per year. Now I see they’re reporting 2 at 16 total. The Rays got one helluva a bargain if that’s true.
"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST
Also
Looks like Bradley is signing with the Cubs for $30M/3. Another OF off the board.
Nice contract all around, as Bradley is probably a 2 win player, by conservative estimates. Of course, if he plays the way he did in 2008, the Cubs get a steal. Pay for the baseline and capture the upside for free.
And MB has the chance to keep his furniture in the same place for 3 years, which would be some kinda record for him.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
I think this was a bad move for the Cubs, not as bad as trading away Dero, but pretty bad. There’s no way Bradley makes it 3 years as an outfielder, he’s just too brittle.
Perhaps
But even accounting for his injuries throughout the years, he’s pretty consistently been a 2-3 win player, so there’s not as much downside there as you’d expect.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
And a ton of upside
Bradley’s actually really good in the field. If a “year off” DHing helped his body at all, then the Cub’s have hit gold.
by Bravenewworld on Jan 5, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Bradley was the free-agent OF I’d hoped the Braves would pursue, and the Cubs signed him for what seems to be reasonable money. Bradley hits for decent power (22 HRs looks great when your entire outfield only hit 27 last season), a great average and can play all three outfield spots, although he does have a history of being hurt and a meathead. Yeah, maybe there’s no way Bradley will still be with the Cubs in three years, but then there’s no way Mike Diaz and Gregor Blanco will be with the Braves in three years, either, and at least Bradley’s likely to put up some decent numbers in the interim.
frank wren is a sonofabitch. I don’t care what any of you say anymore. How else can you defend this guy? 9 million dollars over two year? That’s all he had to offer to beat this deal. No draft pick compensation. If anything he holds down the fort until “maybe” (i’m saying maybe before someone say he’s only 19) Heyward is ready.
Absurd. Peavy, Furcal, Burnett, Burrell. If he does add Lowe he’ll overpay for too long. Get Dunn before people start rioting you stupid sonofabitch.
I would be cool if it was 13 million or something but 8 million dollars?
And who the fuck is MIKE Diaz?
no one ever said that. but the question is why wasn’t Wren looking to add a power hitting corner outfielder that didn’t have any draft compensation for 10 million? The fact is this offseason Frank Wren has proven to be a horrible GM. Some of its bad luck I will admit but Wren has no buisness being in control of a professional baseball team.
For you people calling me a “woe is me” fan. Tell me this isn’t the fourth best team in the NL East.
seriously, explain why wren is a bad GM.
because kevin towers played hardball and refused to budge?
because AJ burnett’s wife hates flying?
BIG JOE SUCK ONE
Let's deal with fact then
Frank Wren was named GM of the Atlanta Braves on Oct. 11 2007 since then
Acquired Jair Jurjjens and Goryks Hernandez for Edgar Renteria ++
Signed Glavine (Type A free agent) —
Traded for Josh Anderson because there was no Major League CF for basically nothing
(got nothing for nothing)
Ohman and Infante for Ascanio
Acquired Kotsay by giving up Joey Devine
Acquired Jeff Ridgeway(?) by giving up Willy Aybar.
In retrospect a lot of bad or sideways moves. Kotsay gave you nothing, Ohman left, Aybar could have played the same utiltiy role that Infante did, and what about Joey Devine… nothing that can’t be said by a quick baseball reference.com check Joe.
The Francouer minor league fiasco
Moving to trade deadline 2008.
Now call it what you want but essentially he gave Texas their number 1 and 4 prospect (according to BA) their number 3 starter, and a catcher that would start for more than a few teams in the league for Casey Kotchman and Stephen Maerk.
Maybe he knows something about Kotchman that I don’t (i’m sure of it actually), but Casey looks like a guy that will be role player on a playoff team at best.
But after being signed to NYY you could say that Atlanta got the most talent out of the trade that they could seeing as they would have had a horrible pick in draft so thats arguable.
Kotsay was traded for Sumoza +
Off season 2009.
Knowing that we have 40 million coming the books and knowing that you need at least three starters, a power hitting left fielder and someone to possible platton with Jordan.
TFlow and Hanson ascended to the top of the prospect charts so now Atlanta has a great farm system again about the Teixiera debacle. So what happens?
He tries to acquire Jake Peavy but doesn’t want to give up the farm. Understandable. But where the mistake was is giving up Flowers and Lillibridge for Javier Vazquez. Javier Vazquez. Flowers stock is at an all time high. So you sell for less than market value? That’s my problem with the SP trade
After Dempster got that big deal, you knew that Burnett was going to get a monster offer. No you can’t compete with the Yankees, so I don’t blame him for that. But where is plan B? Now he doesn’t even have Smoltz signed so the he still need three SP’s.
Furcal that was alot of bs and it sucked to get hyped up. Can’t blame him for that either. Furcal’s agent is an ass.
So everyone on this blog is “Get Dunn, Get Dunn, Get Dunn” Yeah he’s not right handed but “40 homers is 40 homers” as someone on this blog said. Still haven’t heard anything about that.
Burrell is a no comp free agent. Right handed, power hitter. I hate Pat Burrell more than anyone, I had to talk myself into him after everything started falling. Well Tampa got him for 8 million.
There is a lot of “can’t blame Frank” shit flying around. It’s his job to acquire players when he fails, it is his fault.
So this is the exact team as last year. Except less expensive. Smoltz doesn’t want to come here because this is a team that is slightly better than Nationals and on par with the Marlins.
But maybe just maybe Francouer can be a baseball player this year, McCann turns into vintage Piazza, Vazquez is good for the first time in his career.
To be fair
FW didn’t give Texas anything. Aybar was/is a drug addict and a malcontent, so a LHP seemed like a great return at the time. Ohman and Infante were excellent role players, and he got them for next to nothing. The Glavine signing turned out bad, but at the time, he was coming off a very solid season, and the team needed pitching depth. The only move I’d fault him for are the Francoeur debacle, because he obviously did not take charge of the situation – either he wanted him gone, but wasn’t strong enough to tell his opponents to go to hell; OR he didn’t want him gone, but wasn’t strong enough to tell his opponents to go to hell.
Clearly, you have a wild hare up your ass about FW, and that’s fine, but if you’re going to debate the issue, be prepared to have people disagree when you substitute personal bias for the facts. The fact is, FW hasn’t made any Ed Wade-type moves (trading Brad Lidge for Michael Bourn, etc.), and he’s also made some very good moves. I, for one, am going to reserve judgement on FW, and you should do the same, IMO.
"The Glavine signing turned out bad, but at the time, he was coming off a very solid season"
In 2007, Glavine’s K/9 was 4, his BB/9 was 2.88, and his FIP was 4.86. I wouldn’t call that a “very solid season,” and I certainly wouldn’t pay $8M to obtain the season after it.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
I understand what you're saying, but
He did have 20+ quality starts – I know that probably isn’t a great stat to those who are more enlightened (or completely irrelevant, even), but it does show that he was giving his team a good chance to win on a regular basis. Out of curiosity, what was his FIP without his three horrific starts to end the season? I know that sounds like cherry-picking, but my point is that a reasonable person could have thought that he just ran out of gas, turning a “very solid season” into something less than that, right? I’m sure that’s what FW and the Braves were thinking. I’m not saying it’s the move I would have made, but it’s not Ed Wade stupid.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
QS are pretty irrelevant to me when you consider 1) the very fine Mets defense behind Glavine in 2007; 2) the offense-dampening effect of Shea; and 3) the fact that 3 Rs in 6 IPs isn’t exactly anything to write home about in my book.
I prefer to look at things the pitcher has control over.
If Glavine had been Random 41-year old Pitcher A with the numbers I quoted above, there’s no way the Braves would have thrown $8M at him. Maybe it’s not as bad as giving Glavine a $24M/3 deal like Wade might have, but it also isn’t the kind of decision-making that wins divisions.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
I just don’t see where you’re coming from in about 75% of the claims you made. Sorry man.
…Vazquez is good for the first time in his career
Seriously, what the hell are you talking about? They guy has a FIP under 4 seven times in his career. That right there says something, and I havn’t even gone into his K/9, BB/9, and K/BB for his career which are all above average.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 7, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
So what Wren got for Teixiera was adequate considering what was given up to get him and considering what was given up in the Haren and Santana deal?
Devine was traded for Kotsay and Kotsay was traded for nothing. So basically Devine was traded for nothing.
Lillibridge and Flowers for Vazquez was a good trade?
All I’m saying is since Wren has been in control the team has moved sideways (if you are being generous) or backwards (if you are being realistic).
Vazquez is a number 2 – 3 starter depending on the year. Maybe because he’s going to the NL he a 2. Who else would on this board who have made that deal.
The Braves still need a power hitting left fielder and Burrell was had for about a little as you could have but the Rays added him as a DH.
The thing that has finally pissed me off is if you look at what is left in the free agent market other than Sheets, Dunn and Ramirez there is no other game breakers.
Why would any fan be content with his/her team not being good? I can’t understand that.
You still havn’t responded to my post above about Vazquez. Are you sure you understand baseball?
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 8, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
what the hell is a solid average prospect?
Flowers could have been package with something else to bring in a higher return
Lilli is a middle infielder. Few can hit and some player develop at different speeds.
I think Wren got taken in the Teixiera trade and the Vazquez was (IMO) a slightly rushed trade.
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