Thoughts on Griffey Jr. Going to the Bravos

He would bring some fans to the stadium…

by bwellnjonesco on Jan 22, 2009 10:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

leadership.... mentor?

get Dunn. “I got your leadership right here. 40HRs and the ability to take a pitch once in a while”

..and mentor the kids with “In order to be good, you have to be 6’6” and hit bombs"

seriously, this whole mentoring this is ridiculous. You can’t teach our OF to be good when good = I can hit a ball 400 ft on a check swing

Braves

by RehabReject on Jan 22, 2009 10:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

exactly what Francoeur needs…the idea that it’s ok to swing at everything and strike out alot because you can hit a bunch of home runs. What works for Dunn doesn’t work for Francoeur…they are different players.

by jraypritch on Jan 22, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Totally off base

Dunn unlike Francoeur doesn’t swing at bad pitches he does strike out, but be he unlike Francoeur walks over 100 times a year. Dunn has a very good understanding of the strike zone ala barry bonds who walked a ton even though he hit Homeruns, and I am talking bout the pre-2002 barry bonds not the roided mess afterwords.

by mauck98 on Jan 22, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

about the walks…he does have much better plate discipline that Frenchy

by jraypritch on Jan 22, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No thanks. It’s a lock that we wouldn’t get a full season out of him and his defensive play has greatly diminished.

If we’re going to sign a left handed OF we should just sign Dunn.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 22, 2009 10:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think Griff would be an adequate enough LF

and his power numbers are not horrible. He is a great person and i would love to have him!

now, let me rosterbate to this idea…griffey in LF for a small price and AJ in CF for an even smaller price…griff has his usual 15-20 HR year, but bc he is in LF he is able to play just about every day, AJ has a bounce-back year and Frenchy pulls his head out of his butt in RF…we all of a sudden have an OF to talk about.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 10:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

You are expecting people to be good at baseball who were not good at baseball last year.

Last year we had a bunch of ‘ifs’ with our pitching staff—even with all the injuries they did pretty well, considering.

This year we have a bunch of ‘nots.’

by Euruproktos on Jan 22, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ok, let's slow down a bit here

first off, i never said that i was expecting this to happen. I know that these guys had bad years last year. notice the part where i said that AJ bounces back and Frenchy pulls his head out of his butt…this is all just dreaming and wishing on my part…i thought i made that clear.

I would be very upset if we went into another season banking on “Ifs”…i am just saying that IF those three guys turned it around (griffey not getting injured, aj doing whatever he needs to do to get off this freefall and frenchy playing like he was hyped to play) we could have a good OF.

geez, you guys take comments way too seriously around here…

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

‘Nots’ of course meaning the outfield

by Euruproktos on Jan 23, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just because Griffey is in LF doesn’t mean we’re going to get a full season out of him.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 22, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’d say that the chances are better that if we had Griffey, AJ, and Frenchy in our outfield it would be the least productive OF in the majors. Frenchy and AJ have a better than average chance of hovering around the Mendoza Line and whatever Griffey gives us in offense he would tak right back with piss poor defense.

Personally if that was an option I would rather go with Blanco, Anderson and Diaz. At least then you have an idea of what you will get.

by Fischerking on Jan 22, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know...

what you’re smoking, but I don’t want any of it. If we’re just going cheap, I’d rather see the young guys get a shot.

by BBFAN46 on Jan 23, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe my thoughts are tainted

since I’m living in Ohio I’ve seen Dunn kill way too many rallys for the Reds because he was trying to hit a homerun when all they needed was a single. I love his power but his ability to make outs kills me.

We’ve got young talent that needs experience so I’m like the idea of bringing a veteran over teach/mentor (what ever you want to call it) them.

by jraypritch on Jan 22, 2009 10:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

‘Making outs’ is not an ability but rather a curse.

by Euruproktos on Jan 22, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i dont know about that

FYF may even call it a gift

by traphicg on Jan 22, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thats what scares me about Dunn…its either HR, BB, K…so when its the 9th inning, 2 outs and Chipper hits a double and we are only 1 run down, there isn’t much of a chance he brings Chipper home (especially since the pitcher isn’t going to give Dunn anything that he could possibly hit out…

by bwellnjonesco on Jan 22, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If it’s the 9th inning with 2 outs and Kelly Johnson hits a double when we are 1 run down then Chipper Jones is going to get an intentional walk. All good hitters don’t get pitches to hit in that situation.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

fine they dont give Dunn anything to hit…. so he gets walked… McCann is up with runners on 1st and 2nd…. is that a bad situation..?.

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 22, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Griffey made more outs per PA than Dunn did last season.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 22, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Career numbers:
Adam Dunn makes outs 61.9% of the time.
He makes outs 59.3% of the with men on base.
He makes outs 58.4% of the time with RISP.

Seems like he gets better at not making outs when there’s people on base.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Screw Griffey, we need Brian Jordan back to mentor the rookies.

by TradeAndruw on Jan 22, 2009 10:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm w/ ya

Bring Otis Nixon and and David Justice out of retirement while we’re at it.

"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)

by FrankyWren on Jan 22, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

is sid bream andres gallaraga availalbe?

he could mentor Kotchman.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

*Correction

sid bream OR andres….THEY could mentor…

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why would you bring in someone like Griffey jr. who can’t play a full season. When you can bring in some one who is in his prime and played full seasons in the last couple of years having some kind of succes, say 40 hr a year. I seriously don’t get it. The price of guys like Abreu, Dunn is dropping as is the price of guys who are on the trade block. To teach the younger players is no reason to pay millions.

by Dutch Braves Fan on Jan 22, 2009 11:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

If a player wasn’t listening to his coaches, then why would he listen to Griffey? Why is Griffey even considered a mentor? Because he’s old and still hanging around? I could be wrong but I don’t know of any team Griffey was on that he was considered the clubhouse leader. Edgar in Seattle, Larkin in Cincy til he retired and he did little for the Chisox besides looking like a guy that was a shadow of his former self. I hope Griffey ends up back in Seattle as a DH / part time outfielder. We don’t need has beens like Andruw or Griffey on the team, we’ve got Francouer for that.

by robking on Jan 22, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve heard he as a great effect on getting guys to not sign autographs like him. I know Dunn was awesome about signing on the way up, but once he got to Cincy and started hanging around Griffey he became one of the harder guys around to get. It happened with Kearns too. Kearns fortunately lightened up when he left so hopefully Dunn will too.

www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Jan 23, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Adam Dunn.

The people bashing Dunn here don’t know what the heck they’re talking about. I’d bring up his stats, but it’s obvious you people have no interest in evidence of that nature. I would say things like “he doesn’t strike out because he’s undisciplined, but rather because he works deep counts and that narrows his margin of error; not to mention that they’re more than balanced out by his tendency to draw walks and make the most out of his hits with power” but you’re not likely to be swayed by that either. I will say this: to criticize Adam Dunn as a hitter is absurd and exposes you as ignorant with regards to the most fundamental aspects of baseball.

by ejruiz on Jan 22, 2009 11:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yes, stats are nice - BUT

Adam Dunn hates baseball. And he has a low batting average. And he hits too many home runs. Show me that he can lay down a sac bunt, and I’ll get on the A. Dunn bandwagon.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 22, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I really wish that MLB didn’t make Youtube take down the video of Jeff Brantley verbally berating Edwin Encarnacion about being “un-clutch” because it’s pretty much the best thing I’ve ever seen…but I guess some text will have to do.

Bottom of the ninth, Reds have two on, none out, and Edwin Encarnacion at the plate. Edwin makes two poor attempts at getting down a bunt. Jeff Brantley isn’t happy about it.

Thom Brennaman: See that’s the problem when you ask a guy who’s never bunted…

Jeff Brantley: Take him out of the game! Take him out of the game.

Thom: Ok, but…

Jeff: If he can’t bunt take him out of the game. Put somebody else in there.

Thom: Ok, but if you believe in the bunt in this situation…

Jeff: You’re at home. You have to tie the game.

Thom: But that’s a by the book kind of thing. I don’t know if there’s anybody on that bench…that you’re going to bring in…

Jeff: This guy is NOT a clutch hitter.

Thom: But his numbers are contrary to that…

Jeff: He’s not. He’s not…not…not a clutch hitter.

(Encarnacion hits 3-run HR to win game)

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 22, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hahahaha

Oh the dysfunctional Reds. The other great moment was when Baker asked Dunn to put down a sac bunt, but he screws up the bunt and decides to hit a walk off HR instead.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Haha, I remember that as well. Cox may be slipping in his old age, but I thank the maker that we don’t have Dusty Baker at the helm.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 22, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn got lucky

He could just as easily have screwed up, and clogged up the bases by taking a walk. He just isn’t aggressive enough.

Bunting is only good if 1) the hitter is good at it, and 2) the hitter isn’t particularly good. I mean, if someone has an eye like KJ in 07 and you’re trying to get the runner from first to second, your chances are probably better that he’ll work a walk than they’ll successfully bunt the runner over.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 22, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That was the funniest call I had ever heard in a ballgame...

by BraveBronco0121 on Jan 22, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo

You nailed it, though you may have been a little too informative for some to understand. I think it boils down to a fundamental lack of objectivity. After all most baseball fans are “pre-programmed” to look at certain stats.

Let’s try this – Who would you rather have at the plate in the bottom of the ninth with two outs with the bases loaded and your team down by 1 run? Your choices are Adam Dunn or Ryan Braun?

I feel the majority of fans will say Braun because he is much more likely to get a hit, therefore driving in a run. The problem is they’re not looking at how many more times Braun will make an out over Dunn:

For their careers:
- Braun will make an out approx. 65% of the time
- Dunn will make an out approx. 61% of the time

This is probably an over simplification, but the ridiculousness of this argument has gotten to the point where I feel it’s necessary. My point is who cares that Dunn will either BB, K or hit a HR as long as he is more successful at getting on base?

"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST

by scstrato on Jan 22, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

People also seem to think that the only situations the clean up hitters come up in are 2 outs with runner(s) in scoring position, while ignoring all the other possibilities that occur far more frequently.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not that I dont know the stats

I know good and well that Dunn can mash, he walks alot and has a high OPB and OPS. My beef with him is that I dont like him in the 4 spot. we want someone there to drive in the runners on base (chipper, yunel, kj), not just walk right behind them. if we were looking for someone to hit in any other spot in the lineup than 4, i would be all about Dunn, but i dont like a cleanup hitter who just adds to the mess. I want one with a quilted quicker picker upper who can clean up any mess the 3 batters in front of him make. (ok, so the analogy is a bit of a stretch…)

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He’s a classic basepath clogger

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 22, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And that's the worst possible scenario

Too many baserunners.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 22, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is a serious question:
Is someone like Juan Pierre your ideal cleanup hitter? High Average, low strikeouts right there.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nope

my ideal cleanup hitter is someone who hits in the 4 spot effectively, with around a .300 average, 25 or more HRs, high ops, few strikeouts, fewer gidps, and someone who you can feel pretty comfortable with that they will get the job done (whatever that job may be). I think Chipper would be a great 4 hole hitter, but he wants the 3 spot…

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that Chipper would be a great clean up hitter, but that’s mostly because he’s just a great hitter overall. He also hits into double plays a lot more often than someone like Dunn. Both would be great clean up hitters.

There’s very little difference between .240/.380/.520 and something like .300/.380/.520. The .240 average player hits more extra base hits in place of singles, while the the .300 average player hits more singles in place of walks. The .300 average player is more effective when you have a runner on 2nd or 3rd (or both) and 1st base empty, while the .240 player is more effective when there’s nobody on base, situations like runner on 1st, runner on 1st and second, bases loaded, etc.

In the grand scheme of things, it evens out and saying one is significantly better than the other is just ridiculous. There’s much better ways to evaluate a player’s worth than batting average and strikeouts and a low average, high OBP player like Dunn is just as good in the 4 slot as someone with a higher average, same OBP, and same slugging percentage.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you said it perfectly...

" The .300 average player is more effective when you have a runner on 2nd or 3rd (or both) and 1st base empty, while the .240 player is more effective when there’s nobody on base, situations like runner on 1st, runner on 1st and second, bases loaded, etc."

This is my point. Your cleanup hitter, more often than other hitters, will be batting with runners on 2nd or 3rd. At least, that is the expectations. your 1-3 hitters are your “get on base” guys. your 4th hitter is the guy who is supposed to drive them in. hitting a bases empty double or a 2 out double or something like that doesnt help you score runs. however, hitting a single with risp does.

scoring runs wins games, not walking. walks are better than an out, but not equal to a hit (unless the hit is a bases empty single). while walks are certainly better than outs, they arent ideal. if they were, you wouldnt see players given free passes.

It may just be my personnal preference, but i want a guy who can hit and drive in runners when i need him to. I dont want him taking a free pass more often than he hits.

let’s just agree to disagree on this one.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You missed this part:

In the grand scheme of things, it evens out and saying one is significantly better than the other is just ridiculous.

“hitting a bases empty double or a 2 out double or something like that doesnt help you score runs. however, hitting a single with risp does.”

How in the world can you say a bases empty double doesn’t help you score runs? Would you rather have your lead off hitter hit a double or a single?

Here, I’m going to pull out the splits of someone who was basically a career cleanup hitter: Willy McCovey.

of PAs with nobody on: 4923
of PAs with RISP: 2707
of PAs with man on first only: 2062

That’s close to 9700 PA’s so you can see that about 74% of the time the .240 average guy is better and about 26% of the time the .300 hitter is better. In the grand scheme of things, it does not matter what your batting average is for a clean up hitter (or any hitter). What matters is how often you don’t make an out (OBP) and how many bases you get when you hit the ball (Slugging %).

Saying Dunn is not a good clean up hitter is just wrong. If you prefer the higher average, same OBP, same slugging guy that’s fine. But there’s no reason that a lower average, same OBP, same slugging guy is not equally good over a season.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

slow down and take a deep breath...

count to three…

if there are two outs, and your cleanup hitter hits a double, you have, typically a slow guy on 2b with two outs and your 5 hitter up. your 5 hitter is usually pretty solid, so we cant ignore that. but, odds are that if your 5 walks or singles, your runner on 2b isnt going to score. now your 6 hitter is up…odds are that he isnt as good a hitter. so chances are (and no, i dont have any statistical proof of this) that your 2 out double will not lead to a run.

now, you have runners on with 2 outs, and your cleanup guy is up. he hits a single. odds are that your leadoff or your 2 hitter is on second (in this scenario) and he has some speed. a single will score him.

that is how a 2 out double doesnt score runs (typically), but a single with risp does.

this isnt rocket science, folks.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

See?

guys, this is what I meant. The people the attack Dunn do so with hypotheticals that have no grounding in reality. They can’t be troubled by stats or simple, verifiable maxims. This is like arguing with Joe Morgan and the like, something that I’m not interested in doing. Instead of trying to bring the anti-Dunn crowd into the light, I’ll simply use their statements to ignore any/all future contributions by those posters. I advise you do the same.

by ejruiz on Jan 23, 2009 4:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

New metaphor

“You would argue with Joe Morgan” is the new “You would argue with a stop sign”…

"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST

by scstrato on Jan 23, 2009 9:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

none of this is arguing against getting dunn

it is arguing against using him as the cleanup hitter.

dont try to lump me into a camp of ignorant posters. I have said several times on here that if we were to bat dunn anywhere but the cleanup spot, i would love to have him!

Plus, i never once said that i would prefer griffey over dunn.

Our discussion here has nothing to do with dunn…it has everything to do with what we each prefer in a cleanup hitter. you prefer a guy who gets on base, a la a #1 or #2 hitter…i prefer a guy who hits and gets guys in.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 23, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you prefer a guy who gets on base, a la a #1 or #2 hitter…i prefer a guy who hits and gets guys in.

Come on man, classifying Dunn as “a guy who gets on base, a la a #1 or #2 hitter” is wrong. There’s a reason why the guy has a career .518 SLG. For all the times he walks with RISP and your phantom cleanup hitter hits a single driving in a run, there are going to be plenty of times where Dunn mashes a pitch and picks up more RBI than a simple single would.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 23, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

true

but his average with risp leads us to believe that he will do that less than one out of every 4 times at bat…usually, he walks or reaches on an error – based on his high OPS. His OPS indicates that he reaches base a ton with risp, however, his average when looked at in the context of his OPS indicates that most of the time, he walks or something other than a hit with risp.

that is the basis of my whole argument. dunn can mash, i know that. he just doesnt seem to do that with risp – my whole context for not wanting him in the cleanup role.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 23, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He’d be hitting in front of McCann, so if he JUST TAKES A WALK LIKE A DOUCHEBAG, its not like the inning is automatically over.

SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES

JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09

by bigjoe on Jan 23, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so he is kind of a waste of a cleanup hitter then

we should just make mccann the cleanup hitter if he is the one that we are going to be counting on to drive the guys in anyways.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 24, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Where's your proof?

Do you know for a fact that the 4 hitter in any lineup comes to bat more often with runners on 2nd or 3rd? Unless you’ve actually looked this up, the whole basis of your argument is flawed.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 22, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this is a fun game

where is your proof that he DOESNT?

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Since you brought it up, and he called you on it, it’s your job to defend your position with fact.

www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Jan 23, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ok, i dont have time

to look up the numbers, but we can think about this for a second:

why do teams have cleanup hitters, leadoff hitters, and #2 and #3 hitters?

they dont just throw any random player into those slots. they put the guys there who get on base the most, and the best hitter on the team usually bats #3 or #4. why? because a manager wants the best opportunities to score some runs. so while i have no statistics right now (i am sure they are out there, and if they are, this site will have the people to find them) I do have some common sense.

Now, i have defended my position. now show me proof that they bat LESS with runners in scoring position.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 23, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My take

Teams set their 1 thru 4 lineups based on the first inning alone. After that, it doesn’t really matter what spot players hit in.

In my opinion these are qualities I want out of my top four (listed by batting order):

1. Good OBP/Speed
2. Good Contact/OBP
3. Your best pure hitter period!
4. Your best power hitter (from a total base or isolated slugging perspective)

So, considering this only matters in the first inning, the point is to get at least ONE of the first three batters on base for that big bat to drive in. More times than not if one of these guys does get on statistically speaking it will probably be a result of a single or walk (there are twice as many singles hit over a year than there are doubles, triples and homers combined). Given this scenario who is more likely to drive that run in, a high average singles guy or a low average power hitter? Now no one, at least in my opinion, is saying that we would prefer Dunn over someone like Pujols or Berkman. What we are saying is that based on what’s left in the FA pool (or has been speculated to be available via trade) Dunn is by far the best option for a cleanup hitter.

We all have a right to our opinion, but the issue (at least i think) is that you’re using your opinion as proof that Dunn isn’t a good cleanup hitter when factual evidence clearly points to the opposite result.

"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST

by scstrato on Jan 23, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

here is what i am saying

Lineups are not created for the first inning alone. yes, the first inning is where it works out to where your leadoff man is your leadoff man, but these guys are going to bat in this order for the rest of the game. they are in this order for a reason that goes beyond the first inning. they are the part of your order that has the most potential to generate runs.

I agree that we dont prefer dunn over some of those other guys you mentioned, and if you read my posts over the past couple of days, (especially in the thread about Dunn) i also agree that he may be the best option that is still available.

I am not using my opinion as proof of my argument. I am stating what my opinion is. I have already indicated that outside of his low avg w/risp compared next to his outrageous ops, i have no stats that back up what i am saying.

the evidence doesnt point to the opposite (that dunn is a good cleanup hitter). the evidence indicates that he hits a ton of HRs, doesnt get hits very often, but reaches base a lot.

i understand where you guys are coming from, but i am just simply disagreeing with you. We obviously have different opinions of what we look for in a cleanup hitter and a line-up. this is fine.

I like adam dunn coming to the braves. we obviously need his power. I just dont think we should expect too much from him with runners on. yes, he will hit the occasional 3 run hr, but more often than not, he wont produce that run (unless the bases are loaded, or he hits a sac fly – which is fine).

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 23, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Adam Dunn 2008 PA with RISP: 182 (as a 4 & 5 hitter)
Chipper Jones 2008 PA with RISP: 155 (despite playing in 30 games fewer than Dunn)
Brian McCann 2008 PA with RISP: 183 (as a 4 & 5 hitter)
Mark Teixeira 2008 PA with RISP: 211 (as a 3 & 4 hitter)

So essentially, theres no correlationi. Well done.

SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES

JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09

by bigjoe on Jan 23, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I love correlationi. It’s my favorite Italian dish. If you’re ever near Sal’s in Little Italy hit it up. You won’t be disappointed.

by Euruproktos on Jan 23, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

at this point i think dunn might be a better defensive lf. griffey jr. just looked horrible last year, lost at the plate at times and slow in the field. he would be my last choice of who is available.

by heapofoatmeal on Jan 22, 2009 11:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I love Griffey, but I hope he chooses an American League team so he can DH. He just doesn’t look good in the field anymore. I’m not even sure he would wan to play LF if the Braves offered.

Does anyone know if Griffey has played LF?

by Sparhawk on Jan 22, 2009 12:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Mentoring

Chipper Jones anyone? Here’s an abridged version of Chipper Jones’s Mentoring Guide Version 1.3.

1. Practice a lot. (We’re talking about practice?!)
2. Take care of your body.
3. Don’t swing at bad pitches.
4. Destroy mistake pitches.
5. ????
6. Profit.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 12:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

and #6 still kill me.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 22, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

God damnit…that’s supposed to be 5 & 6

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 22, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

7. Frequent Hooters

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 22, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Number 6 and number 7 cannot coexist. The child support payments alone will be a killer.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 22, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn’t mind Griffey platooning with Francoeur (ha…see Francoeur cry throughtout the season) and get Dunn for left.

by BravesFan on Jan 22, 2009 12:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

anyone know if we are even trying to get Dunn?

I hope we are but I have not heard of any rumors.

by coachg3 on Jan 22, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Bottom Line

Is that Dunn may want more money than the Braves are willing to spend on him. There’s no question that he’d be an excellent addition, if anyone wants proof, use the search function and you’ll find pages of analysis to that effect.

Last I heard, he wanted 4/$56 million. Has that figure changed? I realize may of you are dumbfounded by FW’s reluctance to even approach Dunn, but at the end of the day, it’s really a money issue.

I just don’t feel like FW is sitting in his office, thinking to himself, “I wanna sign Dunn, I really too, but he strikes out too much!”

"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)

by FrankyWren on Jan 22, 2009 12:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

"I realize may" should read "I realize many"

"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)

by FrankyWren on Jan 22, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and "I really too" should read "I really do"

Damn … I gotta learn to proofread.

"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)

by FrankyWren on Jan 22, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember during the season last year, Dunn was planning on looking for a $100M contract during the off season.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Griffey

Is one of the worst fielding LFers, at least as bad as Adam Dunn if not worse and he’s lost pretty much all the pop in his bat. While moving back to the NL might help a little, it certainly wouldn’t help enough. Dunn would probably be worth between 5-8 million, Griffey maybe 2-3 million, maybe. Plus he’ll almost certainly get injured. That’s not worth the risk because his production is atrocious.

by Perrinbar on Jan 22, 2009 1:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

when has he ever played LF?

I thought he moved from CF to RF…i could be just ignorant here though…to my knowledge, he has only played a total of 3 games in LF…so how can you make this assumption?

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He’s already really awful in CF and RF so it’s safe to say he’ll be awful in LF, which is basically RF with more balls hit at you, but less difficult throws to make.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not really

playing lf isnt the same as playing rf…if it were, we wouldnt have players that are only lf or rf players…the differences arent HUGE, but they are enough to make a difference.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The only reason players typically don’t move form LF and RF is because they are basically the same position and there’s no reason to move them. If anything, a larger difference in position means a player gets moved more often. CF and RF/LF are very different and that’s why you see guys moved off CF to RF/LF all the time.

The difference is that more balls are hit to LF than RF and RF requires a stronger throwing arm. Other than that, it’s not really different except maybe for some parks (Wrigley). If he’s awful in RF, he’ll be awful in LF too.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm confused

if it is basically the same position, then players would be inter-changable there. we would see free agent LFs signing to play RF more than we do….your argument that “it is the same position, so players dont change” doesnt hold water with me.

I know the differences between LF and RF. I know that they arent huge differences, but they are enough of a difference that a player could succeed in one and not the other (defensively).

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 22, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t take this the wrong way…but your arguments baffle me sometimes.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 22, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Some people just like to disagree

But those kind of people do make you work real hard at refining your arguments. So when you argue with someone who is more open-minded, you might end up being more successful. So…

Step 1 – Argue with justin
Step 2 – ????
Step 3 – Profit!!

HaHa!! I’ve been wanting to do one of those lists for sometime now…but I think the Underpants Gnomes were funnier.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 22, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn’t very clear and I guess I’m arguing two different points while not being clear.

First, how often do you see a CF exiled to LF or RF when they start losing a step? Or how about when a Shortstop loses a step and must move to 2B or 3B? Now, how often do you see a LF get moved to RF since he lost some range or a RF get moved to LF since he lost range? Not often. In this case, because there is little defensive difference between the two positions, you don’t see a player get moved off that position to the other due to decline nearly as often as CF —> LF/RF or SS —> 2B/3B.

Second, LF/RF is probably the most interchangeable position in baseball due to the similarity in skill sets and ground required to cover. If a 2B moves to SS, he’s going to do worse at SS than 2B. If a SS moves to 2B, he’s going to do better at 2B than SS. But because LF/RF are the most interchangeable, a RF moving to LF will perform the around same.

Basically, in the first, the difficulty level of the position is virtually the equal so you don’t see players get moved from one to the other due to a decline in defense. In essence, the similarity of the positions does not necessitate moving players from one to the other when the player’s skill deteriorates. In the second, I am saying that it’s the easiest 2 positions position to bounce a player between because of this similarity. Hope that clears it up.

If Griffey is awful in RF, there’s no reason to expect him to be anything other than really bad in LF.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Its still not overly clear…. im gonna try to help that (hopefully) i dont worsen the situation…

Justin is saying we should see Corner OFs change often… We don’t see this. I can give an explanation for this… The arm.. RFs have significantly stronger arms than LFs. Which is why they are in RF. LF dont have the same arm strength and thats why they dont make the switch to LF.

However, Bobby Abreu who plays RF can easily play LF. The skills required are identical. Balls hit travel differently, but not significantly to make a difference. The amount of range you need to cover is identical (except in cases when you either have an extraordinary CF or a horrible CF, but even then the range in that OF is the same for the RF as the LF). Everything about the position is identical except the arm strength needed.

Defensive Metrics don’t take arm strength into account (whihc is a knock on them). SO we can negate that argument. Victor said if Griffey is a bad RF he will be a bad LF, assuming his bad RF play was not dependent upon special circumstances (injury or bad luck), which it wasnt (IMHO). He is right because the skill set needed to play LF is the same as the one needed for RF.

The only difference between LF and RF would be how balls track. generally balls drift towards the line. IF a RH goes OPPO, it drifts twoards the 1b line, and vice versa for a LH. Balls that are pulled by a RH will drift towards the 3b line.

However, the movement (distance and trajectory) is the same, and isnt that difficult to pick up. Players are usually destined to be a RF and LF based of arm strength and nothing else.

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 22, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You guys have combined to hit the nail on the head. I don’t know why this was such a long discussion on here. I mostly played outfield when I played and the only difference between left and right aside from needing a stronger arm in right is that the balls curve in opposite directions, toward the foul lines either way.

www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Jan 22, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and that curve shouldnt be a difference that makes u unable to play the other side.

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 22, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely correct. It’s a minimal adjustment any pro outfielder can make with about fifteen minutes of practice.

www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Jan 23, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

People are advocating Griffey and shitting on Dunn? Maybe if this was 1998

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 22, 2009 1:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Griffey even sucks on my sons Nintendo DS

by coachg3 on Jan 22, 2009 1:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

My orginal post

was to see everybody’s opinion on having KGJ come over to be a mentor to the young OF, any offensive production woud be a plus.

Looking at the Dunn’s stats I can admit that I should give him more credit. His batting average and RBIs aren’t much to right home about but he certainly makes up for that in OBP (which has increased in each of the last 3 years). If he comes over, I hope that he continues to drop his Ks. If not it my patience will be tested this year.

I would be interested to see how his AVG, RBIs, OBPs look compared to Atlanta’s LFs for the past 3 years.

I haven’t even looked at the fielding stats yet.

by jraypritch on Jan 22, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

First rule of Talking Chop…don’t look at AVG & RBI to determine a player’s worth.

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 22, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is the Second Rule

of Talking Chop, don’t ever talk about Talking Chop?

Seriously, I am full on hopping on the Adam Dunn bandwagon, within financial reason of course, I don’t get why we would look at Andruw Jones or discuss and other player when Dunn is still out there. I know he wants a lot of money and is LH, but he also can play 1B (granted poorly) and would be perfect to hit behind Chipper, in my opinion.

by bengoodfella on Jan 22, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

$$$

“I don’t get why we would look at Andruw Jones …”

"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)

by FrankyWren on Jan 22, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That is a sufficient reason for me. I am admittedly getting a little excited at the idea of Adam Dunn in a Braves uniform so right now all other choices seem bad. I realize we are not going to sign him though.

I am also embarrassed at the fact I really believe a Brandon Jones/Matt Diaz platoon should be a backup plan. It may have something to do with the fact I want to see if they would actually be productive.

by bengoodfella on Jan 22, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

cant you just take my word for it? they wont be productive

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 22, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well you are clearly an expert on this matter, so I will take your word for it. I thought Diaz’s stats for career look pretty good against lefties.

Why is it on this board any idea that someone deems “stupid” is met back with a snarky comment? I am sure if I looked back, I could find other ideas that someone thought was brilliant (i.e. Sean Casey at 1B).

by bengoodfella on Jan 22, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought Sean Casey at first would have been a good idea, so long as it was only for a season.

And I agree with you that a B Jones/Diaz platoon is a fine back up plan, as long as it’s very far back.

www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Jan 22, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i wasnt attacking you, i just wanted to be a smartass…. hpoefully no harm no foul…

i have been driving the B Jones sucks ass bandwagon for quite some time… even when everyone else thought the world of him i didnt see it. he is gonna be a good AAAA OF and thats about it.

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 22, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh no, no problem at all. I have watched Brandon Jones but haven’t formed a great opinion on him yet. Matt Diaz I do know is not an everyday player. That is all I need to know about him. It’s cool, I figured you knew more about B. Jones than I did.

by bengoodfella on Jan 22, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know whats pretty funny?

As little as BJONES played last year, he still OPSed higher than Blanco, Francouer, and Diaz. That is seriously sad.

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 22, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it doesnt really how much he played… you dont need to play a lot to have a high OPS… if u said he had more HRs or XBH then that would be convincing… but you could play in one game and have a good OPS….

FYI doubles for BJONEs 10 (in 116 ABs)
doubles for Blanco 14 (in 430 in ABs)
Doubles for J Anderson = 7 (in 136 ABs)

ANderson lead the bunch with 3 HR… he really crushed the ball, Blanco and BJOnes each had one..(1 HR in 430ABs…. i honestly think i could do that)

so the argument is along with Diaz… everyone with the potential to play LF for us.. blows ass… they blow ass to varying degrees and have varying methods for reaching this level of suckitude… but they all reach it nonetheless

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 22, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jones is also the youngest and has the best minor league track record out of any of them, so theres a chance he could turn into something league average.

Fuck it. SCREW ADAM DUNN, LET BJONES PLAY! He’s better than Jason Perry, at least.

HEY. When they sent Francoeur down, why didn’t they let BJONES get the playing time? Ridiculous. Jason Perry…god.

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 22, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Perry was having a pretty outstanding season at that point, but yeah, I wondered that too, why didn’t BJ play?

I still think the guy could be a very solid, average major leaguer. I’ve made the Reggie Sanders comparison several times. Which is fine for him, but it’s not what our offense can handle right now. We need a bopper.

www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Jan 23, 2009 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was at

the game with Perry’s first at bat was a triple. It was all down hill from there though. I did wonder why they did not call B. Jones up too, but I guess they had their reasons. I have to agree there is nothing even average in our system right now that could cause the Braves to get any production out of LF on offense. I really think we need a bopper type in LF as well.

I have routine nightmares of Schafer in CF, Blanco in LF, and then when Frenchy starts struggling Josh Anderson will somehow end up in RF or something.

Speaking of Reggie Sanders, he can play LF right? Call him, he could very well be better than what the Braves have now. I am kidding, kind of.

by bengoodfella on Jan 23, 2009 8:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think its an issue of looking at Andruw and NOT Dunn…because in all honesty, we need a LF AND a CF. If we sign one, the other OF spot will be filled by the three headed monster of suck, and getting a .725 OPS out of that bunch is going to be like pulling teeth.

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 22, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think it’s too unrealistic to think that Blanco can post a .725 ops. That’s .375 obp and .350 slg – I think that’s doable for him. And he certainly isn’t terrible in CF.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 22, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree especially since in 2008 he posted a .366 OBP, .676 OPS and .309 SLG.

by jraypritch on Jan 22, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am good with Blanco playing CF next year, I just have a concern for LF because I don’t think there is an answer in the Braves organization right now and I don’t get too excited at most of the free agents that are more affordable.

by bengoodfella on Jan 22, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If Jordan Schafer get the CF spot out of spring training are you good with Blanco in LF?

by jraypritch on Jan 22, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am not sure he will get the job out of spring training but if he does, I am not sure how I feel with Blanco in LF. I realize his offensive numbers don’t change but I would like to see just see a more powerful bat in the lineup at that spot if Schafer wins CF. I realize Schafer has some power but with no one really knowing what we will get from Frenchy, I want someone in the OF to be able to hit homeruns and get some RBI’s.

I guess for me, I would like to see the Braves add another bat to the lineup and LF seems to be the most glaring need for an upgrade, so that is why I am hesitant to put Blanco there with Schafer in CF. If Schafer meets the expectations for him from the beginning of last year, I would be fine with it, but I don’t know if he will or not.

How’s that for hedging?

by bengoodfella on Jan 22, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I should have said

I realize his offensive numbers don’t change whether he is in LF or CF and I of course want someone in LF who does more than get RBI’s and hit HR’s, I would like for them to get on base at a decent rate as well.

by bengoodfella on Jan 22, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I feel the same. Since Shafer will most like start the year out in AAA. (according to Mark Bowman) it all comes back the same solution…we need another bat. Now the question is who and for how much and I think there is no shortage of discussion on that.

by jraypritch on Jan 22, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that is pretty much all we have discussed on this board. I am excited to see what Schafer could do but he struggled a little bit last year. Contrary to what people may think, I don’t want a platoon of any type out there, I would like to see the Braves actually pick up a bat. It is less defense I care about and more the fact I would like to see the LF hit behind Chipper so McCann can stay in the fifth spot. I think I would prefer to see McCann at that spot in the order, rather than cleanup.

by bengoodfella on Jan 22, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Uh, no. Not by a longshot. There can be only one rookie/mediocre hitter in the outfield, not 2.

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 22, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, why use average and RBI to determine a batter’s worth when you can use strikeouts, sacrifice hits, and handedness.

by VictorW on Jan 22, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget tall-ness

bigjoe has already shown that Joe Borchard=tall=dominant.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 22, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

THE ORIGINAL BIG JOE!

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 22, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unless TC

has a rule against using trendlines to predict future performance. Dunn is headed towards a .397 OPB and a .895 OPS in 2009.

He sounds much better than what the media is saying. Is he still worth the money? I don’t know.

by jraypritch on Jan 22, 2009 2:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

that sounds pretty good to me. I don’t know if it is worth $14 million/year, of course I say that now, but when the team starts an OF of Frenchy, Blanco, and Omar Infante in mid-July, I will regret saying that.

by bengoodfella on Jan 22, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn's OBP and OPS

compared to the LFs (Blanco, Diaz, Jones and Infante) using 2008 stats
Dunn LF
OBP: .395 .326
OPS: .895 .677

Pretty nice upgrade and thats just for the LF alone

by jraypritch on Jan 22, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You can't give me stats

like that or else I will end up posting a fan shot in favor of Dunn (as if we need to discuss him any more) and then I will get torn apart for talking about the issue and someone will mention how much he strikes out. It will all be downhill from there.

Did anyone see Mark Bradley’s semi-defense of Frenchy asking for a massive raise on ajc.com? I don’t want to change the subject but I just wondered.

by bengoodfella on Jan 22, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Um... why Griffey?

KG Jr’s last three seasons:

2006 : 472 PA, .252/.315/.486, .336 wOBA, -23.7 fielding runs (and that’s in 3/4 of a season)
2007 : 623 PA, .277/.372/.496, .369 wOBA, -22 fielding runs (in Right Field!)
2008 : 575 PA, .249/.352/.424, .335 wOBA, -24 fielding runs

So um.. yeah, he’s been in the negative in terms of wins above replacement. He’d be a hell of a pickup.

It absolutely kills me that there are people who think he’s better than Dunn at this point. Dunn is bad in the field, but Griffey is worse. Dunn is, without any doubt, a better hitter. Seriously, if you give Griffey 150 games in the outfield, he’ll likely cost you 25-35 runs. He needs to go to the AL and play in a DH platoon.

Anybody who thinks this guy would help us is a buffoon.

by BraveBronco0121 on Jan 22, 2009 3:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hear that Gondee!

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 22, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Please tell me he hasn't advocated this...

by BraveBronco0121 on Jan 22, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He has

And he got torched for it.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 22, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That makes the baby Jesus cry

by BraveBronco0121 on Jan 22, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

“Torched” is a pretty bad understatement.

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 22, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This continues the overwhelming trend where posts about guys who don’t even play for the Braves get the most comments.

www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Jan 23, 2009 2:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm new to TC

so do you think that is because, the OF hasn’t produced so we need to get outside help, or is it because its the off-season and there is nothing better to do? Just curious.

by Heap on Jan 23, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Probably a little of both...

with the offseason comes free agent signings and trades. It seems reasonable that, with no trades we know of on the table, we would talk about potential free agents to fill our holes.

by BraveBronco0121 on Jan 23, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rosterbating

Many tissues and old socks have been used in the past couple of weeks.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 23, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's disgusting

+1
And don’t forget old shirts. Ahh, good ole Mr. Happy Shirt.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 23, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs