Done with pitching?

by kalesi on Jan 13, 2009 3:00 PM EST Comment 32 comments

If Kawakami and Lowe don't go Furcal on us (I can't imagine that happening twice in a career, much less one offseason), then we have what looks to be a good starting rotation.

Let me pose this question. Has a six man rotation been attempted recently?

My thought is that we have a very good back end to the bullpen with Moylan, Soriano, and Gonzalez. The middle relief, with Boyer, Acosta, Logan, maybe Ohman, etc. has potential. Is it possible that we could go with 6 starting pitchers on roster and 6 guys in the pen.

Lowe we know is a workhorse. But Kawakami pitched in a 6 man rotation in Japan, Jurrjens and Campillo are still relative unknowns in terms of their long range stamina, Glavine may or may not be able to go with regularity, etc.

My biggest concern is stamina. Pitching lights out in June doesn't do ya much good if you aren't pitching lights out in September.

Just spitballin... I don't know if something like that would work and take pressure off our staff. I do know that I will be exicted about the 2010 staff with Hudson, Lowe, Jurrjens, Vazquez, and Kawakami.

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Cox would never do anything unorthodox like that. He’ll just throw Boyer out there 80 times again.

I wouldn’t count on a lot from Moylan this year and Hudson next year. They say it takes two years to fully recover from TJ.

by Land-Man on Jan 13, 2009 3:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

With recent developments, TJ patients have been coming back to full strength much more quickly and regularly. I think we’ll only see improvement from here on out. Look at how quickly B.J. Ryan came back for an extremely low-end timetable.

by mattdiaz4life on Jan 13, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We will likely be monitoring Jurrjens’ innings this season, so it would make sense…but I doubt it will happen.

by mattdiaz4life on Jan 13, 2009 3:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It makes a lot more sense to selectively skip Jurrjens and Kawakami if we’re watching their innings than to limit our 200+ inning studs to 170 IPs. Six man rotations are terrible ideas unless you have six pitchers of the same skill level. That’s obviously not the case.

by 17843 on Jan 13, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m with you here.

by mattdiaz4life on Jan 13, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This has been brought up before, but you’d have a lot of obstacles to overcome:
- The free agents who signed would want to know, as this would reduce their starts per year
- Your entire minor league system would have to be adopt the 6-man as well, which would make your prospects less desirable in trades
- What do you do in the off-season when you only need to win three games in the first round and your starting pitching money is spread across six guys

by gondeee on Jan 13, 2009 3:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

just curious as to why you think our minor leagues would have to adopt the 6 man rotation?

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 13, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess....

….assuming we groom minor league pitchers for an eventual debut in Atlanta, they’d need to be familiar with / experienceing the organization’s way of doing things.

by secondbass on Jan 13, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the only reason you would go to a six man rotation would be if you’re 6th pitcher is as good as your nbr 1…. which isnt true, unless for some unknown reason Hansen is our 6, then maybe. but even then our 5th wont be as good as our 1st so then you drop him and slot hansen in at 5 and ur good to go again with a 5 man rotation…

if anything Id rather lose a starter and have Lowe, KK, JJ, and JV go every 4th day and then use Campillo as a spot starter (although not in the traditional sense he would be a spot starter who makes 2025 starts, not sure how to work that in but w.e)

although i think the 5 man rotation is the best idea, just syain for our purposes a 4 man would be bettter than a 6 man, but still not better than the 5 man rotation

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 13, 2009 3:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That's a lot of starts.

by mattdiaz4life on Jan 13, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thats the point you want your best pitchers to get as many starts as possible so long as they are effective in as many as they can. so essentially

in a 5 man rotations Pitcher A makes 35 starts lets say 25 of them are quality (71%)

in a 4 man rotation Pitcher A makes 42 starts we’ll say only 68% are quality becuase of the extra workload, that still means he’ll have 28 quality starts

this is all theoretical and has no basis in fact, and the nbrs are fabricated by urs truly. but its the idea behind a four man rotation. we want Lowe, and JV and JJ and to a certain extent KK to get as many starts as they can because those pitchers give us a better chance to win than throwing Campillo or Reyes or Morton out there (if you beleive JJ, JV, lowe, KK are individually > reyes, morton or campillo)

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 13, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I realize the point of a four-man rotation is to get your better pitchers more starts, and have your #5 make spot starts when needed. I was just poking at the 2025 number.

by mattdiaz4life on Jan 13, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ahhh i realize now that im the jackass. well ive always been a jackass, but w/e

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 13, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes you have

and your softball team sucks donkey balls.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 13, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

im gonna stab u in the dick..

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 14, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you gotta find it first!

oh, wait a minute…dangit.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 14, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, Campillo's arm would probably fall off at start # 1000 or so...

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Jan 13, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well,

Does this, then, sound the death knell for Tom Glavine in Atlanta?

I wonder what the Lowe signing does for the 6 week long negotiation on Wren’s desk. Does this sgining make Campillo, Reyes, or Morton a likely trade candidate to go get us a left fielder, or will the Braves try to hang on to them, let them hang out in AAA until someone gets hurt?

by kalesi on Jan 13, 2009 5:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Campillo is on my no trade list

by someguy917 on Jan 13, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’d imagine he’s on a lot of GMs’ no trade lists too since he really has little to no value in a trade.

by cbwilk on Jan 13, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well that...

and is valuable to us. He has shown he can pitch when he needs to. I really like him in the bullpen and making spot starts.

by someguy917 on Jan 13, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I really think Campillo will open the year as our #5, with Reyes, Morton, and Hanson all in AAA. One of them will be promoted when/if Campillo struggles. The only way this doesn’t happen, in my mind, is if Campillo just doesn’t show anything at all in ST, or if Cox decides he absolutely has to have a lefty in the rotation, at which point Reyes would get the nod and Campillo would likely pitch out of the bullpen.

by mattdiaz4life on Jan 13, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

reyes and morton wont be in AAA, they have nothing else to prove… there’s no reason to let them waste time down there, IMHO trade Morton while his stock is still relatively high.

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 13, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I actually think Morton could benefit from some more time in AAA. He only pitched 13 games there, and as we saw in his time in the majors, he still has room to grow. He’s 25, so one more season with some time in AAA isn’t going to hurt him. I saw about 4 of those starts, including his last one with Richmond, and he still had room for improvement. And, if nothing else, he’d be a dynamite arm out of the bullpen.

Jo-Jo, on the other hand, has nothing left to prove at AAA. That dude looked like vintage Tommy Glavine in all the starts I saw of him in Richmond. He just needs a change of scenery.

by cbwilk on Jan 13, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Regarding Reyes

Or a change of mentality…he could be really solid if he just gets his head out of his butt…

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 13, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There are so many guys that’s true for. So many guys.

by cbwilk on Jan 13, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

let me try to list some

current/potential 2009 braves who need to get their heads out of their butts:

1. Francouer
2. Reyes
3. Diaz (does he qualify?)
4. KJ on D
5. A Jones (this is the “potential” brave i was referring to)
6. Cox (some of his BP decisions are very suspect…)
7. Yunel (when a call doesnt go like he thinks it should)
8. Our Physical Trainer (ok, i know the other one got fired, but the point is valid)
9. Just for kicks – Smoltz – his head is WAAAY up his butt if he thinks we believe his reasons for leaving…that was as classless and dickish a move i have seen since Furcal’s agents became infamous.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 14, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’d argue with Diaz, not sure what he did to get put on that list, and KJ can’t really help that he isn’t good yet, he’s trying. The rest, yeah, that’ll work.

by cbwilk on Jan 14, 2009 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

diaz went

from being a 330-ish hitter to crappy last year. i blame his injury though and i questioned putting him on the list too (hence the ?) :)

KJ should not ever drop a pop fly that i could catch without a glove on…that one play alone against the Phils qualifies him for this list.

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -

by justincredubil02 on Jan 14, 2009 1:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But really, shouldn’t we have expected Diaz to fall off? The guy isn’t very athletic, has fairly slow bat speed, and pretty much no power. He’s always hit for a high average, but nothing about him other than that would lead you to believe he could be successful. I like the guy a lot, but he’s turning 31 in March and coming off major knee surgery. There’s the distinct possibility we got all we could out of Matty. Not bad for Ricardo Rodriguez though.

by cbwilk on Jan 14, 2009 2:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

diaz was thrust into a starting role, which he is more definitely not capable of doing. hardly his fault. he wasn’t GREAT against lefties last year, but he was absolutely HORRENDOUS against righies

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 14, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs