Organizational Players of the Year

by secondbass on Sep 6, 2008 2:13 PM EDT Comment 37 comments

The Braves usually host the winners of these awards at Turner Field in September. Anybody heard yet when/if it will happen this year? They pick a pitcher and a hitter from each level, and you can go to Turner Field that day and meet the guys and get an autograph. It's pretty cool, actually.

For fun, I thought we might discuss who we think the winners will be. Last year they looked like this:
Richmond: Manny Acosta and Brent Lillibridge
Mississippi: Joey Devine and Brandon Jones
Myrtle Beach: Sung Ki Jung and Jordan Schafer
Rome: Tommy Hanson and Tyler Flowers
Danville: Jeff Locke and Cody Johnson
Gulf Coast League: Eric Barrett and Samuel Sime
Dominican Summer League: Dimaster Delgado and Anthony Feliz

I honestly don't know enough about the GCL or the Dominican League, so I'll refrain. My picks for 2008:

Richmond: Charlie Morton and Barbaro Canizares
Mississippi: Tommy Hanson and Matt Young
Myrtle Beach: Scott Diamond and Tyler Flowers
Rome: Edgar Osuna and Freddie Freeman
Danville: David Francis and Gerardo Rodriguez

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I don't think so

It’s really sad that we don’t have a better offensive player in AAA than Canizares. I’m not dogging him because he is certainly a solid player but I doubt he would be in even one person’s top 200 players in AAA across the minors. I’m also really not sure that Morton should qualify for the AAA award since he spent a ton of time in Atlanta this year. I’ll give you Morton since he is 7th on the team in innings pitched but I think Josh Anderson should be named our best offensive player. He bests Canizares in every category except HR’s and Slugging. Oh………………it’s also sad the J.A. is our best hitter.

by KC Ryan on Sep 6, 2008 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll be honest....

I almost didn’t bother picking any players for the Richmond team myself because….well, I just got bored typing that, so there you go. Nothing too spectacular at all to me in AAA….

by secondbass on Sep 6, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

richmond stunk this year, thus i didn’t go to any games, despite living about an hour from the lehigh valley. next year though…tommy hanson, jordan schafer and company? yes please

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Sep 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, they'll be in Gwinnett

Close enough?
It’ll actually be about the same distance for me as to Atlanta, so I’ll go to both – still not as much as Rome.

by secondbass on Sep 6, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, i don’t think they’re gonna be changing leagues or anything…since the PCL would be a WORSE fit than the international league for them

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Sep 6, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

GCL

In the Gulf Coast league I am gonna go with second baseman Robert Brooks and Pitcher Ezekiel Spruill. Brooks was at the top of the league in several categories and Spruill went 7-0 with a 2.93 ERA with only 8 walks in 40 innings pitched. I think he is going to be a project because he gives up a lot of hits and doesn’t strike out a ton of guys but, from what I hear, he has a great make up and really knows how to pitch and get out of jams.

by KC Ryan on Sep 6, 2008 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

in the GCL for me, it was between spruill and oberholtzer. brooks was a no brainer in my mind

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Sep 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Other levels

Sorry I wrote 3 messages. I should have just put them all together.
Mississippi – I’m going with Redmond and Kala
Myrtle – Scott Diamond and Tyler Flowers sound good to me
Rome – Osuna and Freeman sound right
Danville – It’s a toss-up between pitchers David Francis and Casey Hodges and I gotta give Jon Gilmore the offensive player of the year over Rodriguez

by KC Ryan on Sep 6, 2008 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Spruill also throws 95

by colerocks on Sep 6, 2008 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Richmond – Morton and Canizares
Mississippi – Redmond (actually I believe redmond was already named pitcher of the year for the league) and Kala
Myrtle Beach – Tough one here: Tyler Flowers and Diamond
Rome – Freeman and Osuna
Danville – Gilmore and Francis
GCL – I don’t care much

by yondaime4 on Sep 6, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Okay....

I’m very tempted to go back and hit that edit button up there, but I won’t…….
Redmond did have a solid year. Hanson’s was solid, but it was combined between 2 levels. Mostly Mississippi, but still…..I could concede Redmond.
For Mississippi, I almost went with Ka’aihue, but just looking at numbers, Matt Young was pretty solid all year – more walks than strikeouts, lots of steals, lots of runs scored and produced. I know we held a great Kala debate some threads ago, and I do still like the guy, but I’m sticking with Matt on this one.
Alright, so I was probably wrong on Mississippi all the way around. But so far, concensus on Rome and MB!

by secondbass on Sep 6, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Young was the only other hitter I considered here to be honest. I went back and forth between the two and there is definitely a strong case for young. I guess it just depends on your flavor of ball player.

by yondaime4 on Sep 6, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

richmond – they can all burn in hell. but seriously, chuck james (LOL) and josh anderson
mississippi: redmond and kaaihue
THE BEACH~!: reynoso and flowers
rome: heyward by a hair over freeman and osuna
danville: gilmore and hodges
GCL: spruill and brooks

HITTER OF THE YEAR: jason heyward, rome
PITCHER OF THE YEAR: tommy hanson, myrtle beach/mississippi

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Sep 6, 2008 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Heyward?

Are you kidding me? I mean I get it……….Heyward is by far the best offensive prospect we have in the whole system but how in holy hello can you justify picking him over Freeman for pure production this season? Freeman was equal to or better than Heyward in pretty much any category you can come up with. Gimme a break with the Heyward worship already! I love the guy but there is no possible way you can make a case that he was better than Freeman this season.

by KC Ryan on Sep 6, 2008 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

watch me. freeman’s advantages in counting numbers were likely due to the fact that he had 50 more ABs and played in 10 more games. heyward had more walks, more steals, less strikeouts, a higher BA, and a higher OBP.

notice how i said “by a hair”. no need to come into things and start flaming away like i said cole miles.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Sep 6, 2008 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to flame at all. I just get upset when people don’t give Freeman the credit he deserves. Freeman slugged 40 points higher. He had an OPS 30 points higher. He had 14 more extra base hits. He had 40 more total bases. HOW ABOUT 43 MORE RBI’s? All of this with only 42 more at bats than Heyward! You can’t just ignore Freeman’s HUGE advantage in power numbers by saying “oh gee, he had 42 more at bats than Heyward. A 7 point advantage in BA and a 10 point advantage in OBP are very negligible differences. Again, if I came across as flaming I apologize. I just really want to be fair and not give a guy props he didn’t earn just because of his draft position or reputation. And where did you say "by a hair”?

by KC Ryan on Sep 6, 2008 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

freeman had more RBIs because he had heyward and his insane OBP in front of him. you seriously didn’t notice that? also,

rome: heyward by a hair over freeman and osuna

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Sep 6, 2008 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

agree to disagree. you are free to your opinion. I’ll just stick with the truth………..and be backed up by pretty much every other braves fan on this site.

by KC Ryan on Sep 6, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

why are you so defensive? you sound like such a fucking child.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Sep 6, 2008 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude

what is up with you callin people defensive? You called me(on another thread) and KC Ryan defensive so far that i have noticed. Dude i never got defensive with you and i dont think KC Ryan did either. It seemed like yall were just havin a discussion no need to keep sayin people are defensive.

braves#1

by rockybull on Sep 6, 2008 11:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

when someone says my opinion is fiction, i kinda take that as a personal attack. its an opinion. everyone’s is different.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Sep 7, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no need to break out the F word. i was merely making a point. that kinda language just makes you sound ignorant and obtuse. i am ok with just being thankful that we have two guys with those kind of numbers in low A ball.

by KC Ryan on Sep 6, 2008 11:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Heyward v. Freeman.

Freeman: .316/.378/.521 with 5/10 SB in 491 AB
Heyward: .323/.388/.483 with 15/18 SB in 449 AB

Not only does Jason play a position of higher defensive value, but the organization found him more fit for promotion than Freddie. Look, it may well be a toss-up, but it’s not ridiculous to value Heyward’s production above Freeman’s. Just my two cents.

P.S.: Guys, there’s no need to implicitly or explictly call other people out here.

Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/

by ejruiz on Sep 7, 2008 12:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

also we are looking at final stats also. Until August Heyward had outplayed Freeman pretty much across the board in every category save for power. Heyward was unquestionably the better player for a majority of the season but because of an injury/funk his end of season stats were a little below Freeman’s. Definitely not cut and dry.

by yondaime4 on Sep 7, 2008 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder......

I know Jason probably got the promotion to the Beach because of two reasons – 1. Need – Willie Cabrera got promoted to Mississippi, so heading into the playoffs MB needed the extra outfielder, and 2. Reward for a great season. BUT…
I kind of wondered to myself whether the promotion might be Heyward’s ‘award’ for the season because the team anticipates giving Freddie the hitter award at Rome. Kind of softens the blow for Heyward – Freddie gets the plaque and Jason gets the promotion, so win-win. I have no idea if the organization would think that far ahead or even play those kinds of games, but I don’t suppose it’s totally unrealistic. They could even look back when making the choice and see it that way, who knows.
For the record, I doubt that little scenario is real; I think Heyward’s promotion was more a combination of need and reward.

by secondbass on Sep 7, 2008 6:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anybody for naming Freeman and Heyward Co-Players of the Year for Rome? They do that in some of the minor leagues. I think one year Jamie Richmond and Jairo Cuevas were the Co-Pitchers of the Year for the Appalacian League.

by cbwilk on Sep 7, 2008 12:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey, I’m ok with people worshiping Heyward. Hey is an out of this world prospect. I just think that Freeman’s power numbers (especially the 43 extra RBI’s – and don’t tell me that all of those extra RBI are the result of having Heyward hitting in front of him either) call for him to be the offensive player of the year there. Freeman just always plays second fiddle to Heyward on this board and he probably deserves that on potential alone. I only know that if the two guys numbers were swapped, then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Everyone on this board would be anointing Heyward as the undisputed offensive player of the year. I guess I just pull for the underdog by nature. I was only having a little fun. Not trying to cause a big stir. I love both guys.

by KC Ryan on Sep 7, 2008 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ryan ludwick has more homers and more RBIs than albert pujols. is ryan ludwick more valuable? OF COURSE NOT!

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Sep 7, 2008 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

8 more RBI does not equal 43 more RBI. If Ludwick had 43 more RBI than Pujols this year, then yes, I would say he had a better year offensively than Pujols. Find a better example. I am not saying Freeman is a better overall player than Heyward……………only that he had a better year offensively. That is what the award is all about right?

by KC Ryan on Sep 7, 2008 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RBI is a flawed stat...

If you’re hanging your hat on that, then we’ll never see eye to eye.

Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/

by ejruiz on Sep 7, 2008 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

RBI are primarily a product of who bats in front of you. Joe Carter made a name batting behind Hall of Famer Molitor and future Hall of Famer Alomar.

I did some sabermetric calculations on their minor stats:
GPA ((OBP*1.8+SLG)/4) Basically OBP is more valuable than slugging. Looks like BA.
Heyward: .295
Freeman: .300

Raw EQA – It’s usually scaled with league averages to look like BA. These aren’t. Includes things like sacrifice hits, flies, SB, and CS too.
Heyward: .893
Freeman: .898

It’s really close either way and I guess you can say Freeman had the better year based on those and things like OPS, but he’s not running away with it. Freeman has shown noticeably, maybe even significantly, better power from his slugging and HRs. Heyward has better discipline (walks, BB/K ratio), a little more OBP, and he’s a better baserunner (15/18 vs 5/10 steals). It’s really just a preference and you can’t go wrong with either.

by VictorW on Sep 7, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

funny that you consider Freeman an ‘underdog’ when he is currently considered one of the top 3 first base prospects in all the minors behind Lars Anderson and Logan Morrison. And some rank him ahead of Morrison.

by yondaime4 on Sep 7, 2008 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like the co-player idea.

Then we could all get along! Someone alert Kurt Kemp…..

by secondbass on Sep 7, 2008 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about a Tyler Flowers vs. Ernesto Mejia debate? In some ways, Ernie had a better year; he struck out more and walked a ton less, but he hit more homers and drove in more runs and led the minors in doubles. I think I’d still go with Flow, but it’s an interesting debate.

by cbwilk on Sep 7, 2008 2:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ooooooohhhhhh. Now you’re thinking. I think the Mejia/Flowers debate is similar to the Freeman/Heyward debate in that both Freeman and Mejia probably wouldn’t have had the same kind of seasons if Heyward and Flowers hadn’t been in the lineup right new to them, but I think Heyward and Flowers could ahve put up similar numbers despite who was around them because I think their talent levels are different. Thats just me though, and I am a hypocrite because using that philosophy I should have picked either Heyward/Flowers or Freeman/Mejia as my team MVPs but instead I went Freeman/Flowers.

by yondaime4 on Sep 7, 2008 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really feel like the players in the lineup with them argument is a little odd, because baseball isn’t played in a vacuum. Of course your numbers are totally dependent on the players in front of and behind you in the lineup, as well as the game situation, whether your team is ahead or behind, and all kinds of other things like the specific game situation.
There’s the idea that Freeman was able to rack up so many RBIs because of Heyward hitting in front of him, and I’m sure that’s true, but it’s also likely that Heyward saw better pitches because pitchers would be afraid to walk him and have Freeman batting with a man on. It’s like the way having Texiera hitting behind him positively affected Chipper’s numbers. It really becomes a circular argument, which is more important, the guy getting on base or the guy driving him in? You can’t drive somebody in if they don’t get on base and getting on base really becomes meaningless if nobody is driving you in.
The biggest thing to look at in all this is that we’ve got some outstanding players coming up through the farm system. Heyward, Freeman, Flowers, and Mejia all had great seasons, (I think we had more players with great seasons than any year in at least a decade) and figuring out whose outstanding season was just better than the other’s is a great problem to have.

by cbwilk on Sep 7, 2008 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs