MLBTR - Braves Offseason Coverage
MLB Trade Rumors has been doing team by team coverage of what teams will be facing as they go into the offseason and what they may be looking at. They finally got around to the Braves yesterday:
The think we will go after one SP on the FA market (Derek Lowe is their guess) and one on the trade market (please let us get Matt Cain!!!). And then spend some big money on a LF bat. They do address the Francoeur trade rumors but suggest the same thing we have been, that we would be selling low on him. Its a good piece anyways.
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not much new
I like Lowe, but Randy Wolf??? He’s terrible, we have internal options than can post a 4.5 ERA.
I have no idea why people think we can get Cain, unless we’re trading one of our “untouchables” which consists basically of Heyward.
This trading KJ and signing Renteria to play 2B makes little sense to me, unless we can somehow pull off Magglio in the deal.
by TradeAndruw on
Sep 22, 2008 4:33 PM EDT
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yeah
i agree with you TradeAndruw, cause i just dont see how we could get Cain. Cain is a very good pitcher and i would really like to get him but the Giants would want Heyward, Hanson, and prolly Lillibridge in the trade for Cain. Of course there gonna get a Starting pitching prospect back and then they will get a young top prospect superstar potential position player back also or they just want trade Cain unless they get exactly what they want. I would trade Hanson and Lillibridge in a heartbeat for Cain, but not so sure about Heyward. But of course even that package may not be enough, they might also want Morton or Reyes also in the deal and I would not blame them at all for askin for a kings ransom for Cain. Cain is not an Ace but he is very close to one and he is very cheap and i think he is under contract for 3 more years.
I would do this:
Braves get Cain
Giants get Hanson, Lillibridge, Morton or Reyes, and Gorkys or Schafer
Would that get a trade done? I have no idea but i would do that deal if i was the Braves mainly because as much as people are sayin Hanson is a cant miss prospect there is a very good chance that he misses big time, you can never tell about pitching prospects, and then the Giants need Lillibridge to play SS, Morton or Reyes would step in right now for them and be there 4th or 5th starter, and then they get a prospect in Gorkys or Schafer. I know that they have Rowand but they can move players around if they really want to. That proposal would be a no brainer for the Braves but im pretty sure the Giants would want Heyward instead of Gorkys or Schafer but i dont know.
braves#1
by rockybull on
Sep 22, 2008 5:40 PM EDT
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Hmmm...
Hanson, Schafer/Hernandez and Lillibridge might be a solid conversation starter. The price for Matt Cain could be astronomical, but it doesn’t hurt to talk to the Giants about him. He’s a young stud cheaply under team control for three more years, I believe. A move for him would free up the money to sign C.C. (though I advocate a compressed deal for higher yearly values) to anchor the rotation and Burrell/Dunn for LF this offseason. As long as we can base the trade on positions of strength (one elite CF, one or two starting pitchers and another piece or two to round things out) I’d be OK with the conversations. Maybe I’m crazy, but this is the time for crazy thoughts about the offseason.
Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/
by ejruiz on
Sep 22, 2008 8:37 PM EDT
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I can't imagine the Giants biting without Heyward.
He’s exactly what they need; an OBP/power (projected) lefty OF. They would have to be drooling over the potential of having Posey and Heyward anchor their lineup in a few years. I don’t know if they would demand Heyward AND Hanson (I wouldn’t put it past them), but it would at least cost something like Heyward, Gorkys, Lilli, and 2 of our pitching prospects.
by soup du jour on
Sep 22, 2008 9:04 PM EDT
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matt cain isn’t worth a tex-sized bounty. he’s still got issues.
felix hernandeaz on the other hand…
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Sep 22, 2008 9:15 PM EDT
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Oh i totally don’t think we can get Cain, I just would just really love it. But really, if they are going to trade him (and rumors say the Giants might listen) then how many teams out there can match what we can bring to the table in terms of prospects? I mean we have a good prospect at nearly every position and some decent young pitchers who have time to improve.
Again I’m not saying a deal will get done or even seriously talked about, but it will be because the Braves aren’t willing to pay the price or Giants back off.
by yondaime4 on
Sep 22, 2008 7:11 PM EDT
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Re:
I’d say the Rangers will make a heavy run at him. They have the prospects and the need for an ace.
But I’m with you, I guess: I’d love to get him, but I shudder to think of the prospect cost. I think I’d rather try to trade for Ian Snell or Blackburn/Slowey/Baker, or Peavy/Halladay if they magically come available.
by soup du jour on
Sep 22, 2008 8:36 PM EDT
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I wouldnt want to trade Heyward straight up for Cain let alone adding Hanson and maybe more.
by SayHeyWerd on
Sep 22, 2008 9:05 PM EDT
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Heyward will be HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. I wouldnt trade him for anybody right now
by SayHeyWerd on
Sep 22, 2008 9:05 PM EDT
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Kelly Johnson is expendable, we all agree on that. Anyone think Atlanta could get an Eckstein-type for cheap?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH STAB ME IN THE BALLS NEXT TIME, IT’LL HURT LESS
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Sep 23, 2008 7:31 PM EDT
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What's wrong with Eckstein???
He’s scrappy, a pest, plays with a ton of heart, and hustles!! Don’t you all see the way he sprints down to first when he draws an unintentional walk because he’s 3’10, and has the strike zone the size of an RC cola can? It’s gutsy!
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on
Sep 24, 2008 8:54 AM EDT
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All kidding aside
What is this person thinking? Why would any club pay $2mil extra for someone who is a worse hitter, has worse on-base skills, is arguably a worse fielder, and is 8-10 years older than the guy you already have? Clearly, this person has not been a fan for long, and isn’t into learning about the sport they claim to be a fan of.
by buzzdeadwax on
Sep 24, 2008 4:20 PM EDT
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Just look at the user's handle
“bama” and “boxsoxfan”
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on
Sep 24, 2008 4:38 PM EDT
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Craig Counsell
I just like his batting stance.
by TradeAndruw on
Sep 23, 2008 9:09 PM EDT
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raindelay, hit the music from psycho for me please…
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Sep 23, 2008 9:51 PM EDT
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How in the eff
Can anyone hit like this?

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on
Sep 24, 2008 8:55 AM EDT
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You can't be a Braves fan AND like Counsell
He sucks, and yet he used to just KILL the Braves. How can you harbor anything but hatred for the guy?
by buzzdeadwax on
Sep 24, 2008 11:37 AM EDT
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how can you harbor hatred for a guy just because he did well against the braves… i could understand if he did well against the Braves and was a huge dousche, but i dotn see why there would be hatred for a guy just because he plays well agianst a team
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
by Swo12bv on
Sep 24, 2008 1:15 PM EDT
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If it makes you feel better...
I hate him because he sucks at playing baseball on the major league level. Therefore, I don’t want him anywhere near this team.
Thanks.
by mburris1 on
Sep 24, 2008 1:25 PM EDT
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o i agree he has no business on the team, unless it is in a sort of last option of the bench, but even then Id rather have someone else be or utility man/ PH… ala Prado or Lillibridge… i just have trouble mustering up hatred for a guy who, while he cant seem to hit or play well in normal situations has been in the right place in the right time twice , he waz part of two walkoffs in teh final game of the WS if i beleive
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
by Swo12bv on
Sep 24, 2008 10:58 PM EDT
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I'm gonna have to disagree
I think hating him because he’s killed the Braves in big games – even though he’s mostly a bad hitter – is a pretty solid reason for hatred. Now, I’m not saying I’d kill his dog or beat up his kids, but as far as my baseball fandom is concerned, I can’t stand the guy. Furthermore, I can’t confirm or deny that he’s a douche in real life, but anyone who is the second-coming of Ted Williams vs. the Braves and Rafael Ramirez against everyone else, is a douche. But I respect your stoicism. You’re obviously a lot less petty than I am.
by buzzdeadwax on
Sep 24, 2008 4:16 PM EDT
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I'll reserve that kind of contempt for...
Shane Victorino. Man I hate that guy!
by soup du jour on
Sep 24, 2008 7:14 PM EDT
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you know who i try to hate, but can’t? ryan howard. because i know that for every homer he hits, he’ll have one epic fuckup in the field (re: tonight), or a huge strikeout when you need just a hit
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Sep 24, 2008 9:26 PM EDT
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i could nto agree more, i have a friend who is a philly fan ( i think he was dropped on his head as a child, not sure)… and i constantly try to talk shit about Howard but he makes it very difficult by hitting 50 HR and driving in 150… i take solace in the 200Ks, and 20-30 Errors he makes
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
by Swo12bv on
Sep 24, 2008 10:55 PM EDT
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can’t forget about the sub 250 batting average. every time someone mentions him for MVP, i casually bring up “that will be the lowest batting average for an MVP winner ever. by about 20-30 points”
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Sep 24, 2008 11:54 PM EDT
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Yes
This is the type of player I’m talking about. Victorino is better than Counsell was, but he’s freaking Babe Ruth against the Braves. I hate that kind of crap! Ryan Howard is a good example of someone Braves fans should hate, but for me, it’s not because he balances his good hitting with poor fielding and tons of strikeouts. It’s because he’s Babe Ruth against the Braves, and everybody else. When a good player beats you, you “tip your cap” (as the braves have done for some of the worst pitchers in baseball this season); when a bad player beats you, you’re left to wonder what might have been. It stings a hell of a lot more for me.
by buzzdeadwax on
Sep 25, 2008 11:29 AM EDT
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Please Frank Wren, if you’re reading this…Do not trade multiple prospects for one player. We already got fleeced in the Tex trade. We need to build from within. Matt Cain is not an ace and we should not trade 4 or more valuable prospects for him. That will set us back even more. We’re not one or 2 players away from a WS.
And can someone tell me why we’re looking to trade Kelly Johnson??? Who will replace him Prado? I like Prado, but I question what kind of stats he can put up in a whole season.
by BravesFan on
Sep 24, 2008 11:26 PM EDT
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i think kelly’s september is taking him off the trading block. at least i hope it is. maybe bobby will be pissed we don’t trade him and resign. that would be nice.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Sep 24, 2008 11:55 PM EDT
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KJ
The Braves have no choice but to keep him. First, he’s shown far too much ability on the ML level to trade away just because he’s ‘streaky’. Streaky players usually end up evening out as their careers go along (Andres Galarraga was supposed to be very streaky early in his career, but he was pretty consistent for the Braves). Second, they have no one in the minors to replace him, and the ML options will cost too much in $ and/or prospects. Trading KJ for anything less than someone like Lincecum or Felix Hernandez is just stupid (obviously, trading either of these two pitchers would be even dumber, but I think you get my point).
by buzzdeadwax on
Sep 25, 2008 11:35 AM EDT
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sooooo
your sayin you wouldn’t want somebody like Ian Snell(bad year but i think he can rebound next year), or Sanchez of the Giants or some type of young number 3 type pitcher or maybe a LF for KJ? Not saying we can get Snell or Sanchez for KJ, just sayin. I think we might could get a good number 3 type pitcher or LF in a trade for KJ. We wont get Cain or Billingsley or nobody like that for KJ but i think we can get somethin good, and if not we can just hold on to KJ. I think if we get a good number 3 pitcher or good LF for KJ then i think Wren makes the deal because we have Lillibridge, Prado, Infante, and Diory Hernandez that can at least put CLOSE to numbers that KJ is putting up this year. We have more of a need for a good LF and starter more than second base cause we have internal options at second and not really internal options for a good LF or starter that is READY by opening day of 2009. Its a situation where we will be trading from a position of strength which is second base for a position of weakness which is LF and good starting pitching. Say what yall will but if Wren gets a good LF or good number 3 starter for KJ he makes that trade in a heartbeat.
braves#1
by rockybull on
Sep 26, 2008 1:03 AM EDT
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2B is not a position of strength
Prado, Infante, and Hernandez are not ML starters. Lillibridge has the talent, but the holes in his swing may prevent him from being something other than Infante with more speed. The best option the Braves have for replacing KJ is Travis Jones, and he’s 1-2 years away.
What you’re advocating is robbing Peter to pay Paul. It doesn’t make sense to weaken one part of your ML team in order to strengthen another part, UNLESS you’re strengthening that part more than you’re weakening the other (hence, my Lincecum/Felix Hernandez example above, which I’ve already acknowledged won’t happen). So, yes I would most definitely turn down an offer of Snell for KJ or J. Sanchez for KJ. I don’t think either pitcher is good enough to make up for the loss of an above average 2B.
As for Wren, he and I haven’t spoken in quite a while – we’re both very busy people – so you probably have more insight about his thought process than I do. I can only speak for myself, and offer my opinion of what he should do.
by buzzdeadwax on
Sep 26, 2008 1:43 PM EDT
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fair enough
but i just dont get why people dont think Prado can be a starting second baseman, i understand its your opinion but my opinion is he can be a starting second baseman in the majors so thats why i think that KJ is expendable but i also understand that you dont think KJ is expendable because you dont think that Prado, Lillibridge, or Diory Hernandez are players that can start. But of course IF Wren thinks that Prado, Lillibridge or Diory Hernandez are capable of starting everyday then he will pull the trigger on a trade if it helps us in LF or in the starting rotation. So i guess it all depends on what is in Wrens mind about all of this. But for my opinion i would trade KJ for Sanchez of the Giants or Snell of the Pirates in a heartbeat for KJ but thats just me though and i understand where your comin from also.
braves#1
by rockybull on
Sep 26, 2008 5:42 PM EDT
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Prado has never before shown the power he’s shown in a 230 PA sample this season. Assuming that he will continue a 150 ISO would be a mistake. And if he’s not putting up such power numbers, he’ll need to keep hitting in the 310-320s to even be valuable offensively. I’m not convinced his defense is even mediocre BTW; he’s a good bet to be significantly worse than Johnson defensively. In short, he’s a valuable bench bat, but a bottom five starting second baseman.
That said, if we could land Sanchez for Johnson I’d pull the trigger in a second. Not only are we getting a starter who put up a FIP of 3.85 and threw 160 innings, but we’re getting him for a year more than we have Johnson for.
As for Lillibridge handling 2B, he should be able to be average or better there defensively with work and his bat would play at second even with something like a 260/330/410.
by 17843 on
Sep 26, 2008 7:38 PM EDT
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Tell me exactly how you know..
..that Martin Prado is capable of playing 2B everyday at the ML level? Don’t go on these last two months…way too small of a sample size to even begin to gauge that. Not to mention why Ian Snell? We need to get better in the rotation not even more mediocre. He’s posted exactly 1 season, that’s right 1 season where his ERA+ is north of 100 and that was last year with a 116
Here’s the break down in years. And just as a refresher, 100 is average. Below 100 is not good, above 100 is good.
2004: 58
2005: 82
2006: 94
2007: 116
2008: 76
So in 4 years, he’s been above average once – other than that he’s been worse than average. He’s only logged 200 innings once, and that was last year – I could go on but do the research yourself. His DER has gone down each year for the past 3 among other things. This tRA+ sits at 86.
by RainDelay on
Sep 26, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
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RainDelay
I dont KNOW for a fact that Prado can handle second full time but i BELIEVE he can. My opinion is i think that that he can put up CLOSE numbers to what KJ is this year. Its not like KJ has torn the cover off the ball all year long. But you tell me how exactly you know that Martin Prado is NOT capable of playing 2B everyday at the ML level? No stat you give me is gonna make me change my mind and NO stat that i give you is gonna change your mind about this. We both have different opinions on this so we are just gonna have to agree to dissagree.
I view Snell as a solid number 3 starter. I know that he had a bad year and i saw what you put out about Snell but i still think he can be a good number 3 starter and i would trade KJ for Snell but the Pirates would never trade Snell straight up for KJ. But like i have said I would NOT trade KJ just to be trading him but a guy like Snell or Sanchez of the Giants would be a very good trade for us. But of course no way the Pirates sell low on Snell just like I doubt the Braves are gonna sell low on Frenchy. Now if both players stink it up next season then that could be a very different story.
braves#1
by rockybull on
Sep 26, 2008 11:50 PM EDT
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#3?
….Snell is BOTR. 5 starter, nothing more. There is no way you can say he’s a number 3, there just isn’t his a bottom of the rotation starter. The numbers he’s put up – we can easily find that in our system. Hell early we had a rotation chocked full of guys like Snell. We need to get better not more mediocre, and mediocrity is exactly what Ian Snell brings to the table. Why go outside if we’re going to settle for something like that, I’m sure we can find one in our own system.
by RainDelay on
Sep 27, 2008 1:01 AM EDT
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I agree. I think we can sign a veteran free agent to fill a slot since we have so much money coming off the books. We only would give up a 2nd round draft pick since we’ll be in the top 15 draft next year. I don’t like giving up young players at this point unless we have other positions players blocking their path. If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t Snell sent down to the minor this year by the Pirates? Why would we give up a top 5 2nd baseman in the NL for that??? We have enough mediocre pitchers. Let’s not give up quality for more of them.
by BravesFan on
Sep 27, 2008 3:47 PM EDT
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one more note about prado. he has a BABIP this season of .365. no, thats not a typo. 3. 6. 5. regress that to league average, and prado’s numbers fall across the board and he looks like…kelly johnson. but with no power. yeah. he should REALLY be starting.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Sep 27, 2008 8:52 PM EDT
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