Kelly Johnson traded in Offseason?
by BillBrasky on Sep 1, 2008 9:10 AM EDT
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PrintI have read in one place that the braves are expected to shop Kelly Johnson in the offseason and give Prado a chance to be the everyday 2nd baseman. Bobby is really high on Prado, and you cant blame him. Prado seems to always hit the ball no matter what
What does everyone think of that move? I hate to give up on Kelly because I think he is a solid MLB 2nd baseman. I guess Infante and hopefully Diory Hernandez will be the utility/backup guys
Also, I am new to this page and really enjoy reading the site.
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I am..
a Kelly Johnson fan. I would hate to see him go. Prado is playing well, and could be the real thing, but I don’t know that his long-term potential is any higher than KJ’s.
Real in-depth analysis there, huh?
It was brought up before, but still...
I’ve always liked Kelly and think he can be a part of our future. Yeah, sure he’s had a down year this year, and his bat has to make up for his average to below average defense, but I think he’ll continue to improve on both fronts next year. Remember, McCann had a sophomore slump before breaking out in a big way.
With that being said if we can use him in a package to get a decent pitcher then I would probably be behind it. He does remind me of Marcus Giles in a way, but here’s hoping his career path turns more into a Mark DeRosa’s avenue.
And welcome to the site!
I wouldn't call 2007 for McCann a slump..
..yes he underperformed, but do you realize how banged up he was last year.
is that a slight against Mark DeRosa, becuase DeRosa is a baseball God in my eyes… he can play every position on the field, except C and maybe SS… he hits for a real good avg and has 15-20 HR power, he scores runs, hits well in every situation, and can drive guys in. Also, not only can he play every postition he is above avg at most defensively…. it was hard to watch him leave the braves back in the day
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
Absolutely not.
I’m hoping he turns into a Mark DeRosa.
by soup du jour on Sep 1, 2008 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I really like KJ too and I hope they give him one more year. He seems to be more aggressive at the plate this year and not waiting for his pitch? He seems less patient and really affecting his overall numbers. His walks are significantly down from last year. Is this something Pendleton cooked up perhaps to reduce his long cold streaks? I really think TP should be the one leaving. Any other team, he would have been fired along with Cox.
Wha?
Any other team, he would have been fired along with Cox.
TP maybe…but not Bobby. Gimme a break.
Well maybe not fire BC, but give him a little nudge that his services have been appreciated, but it’s time for him to move on at the end of the season. Instead, they’re encouraging him to come back next season. Perhaps it’s to continue the all-time longest 1 run losses in away games streak? We couldn’t have done it without you Bobby! I guess it will be another looooong 2009 summer.
i usually like to back up my statements with some semblence of fact or evidence, but since u didnt do that i wont… thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
theres really no need for him to show any evidence if you’ve watched the games and seen bobby’s mindless pitching changes, ridiculous platooning, and off the wall substitutions
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
Yep...
BC seems to “like” too many of the players who douldn’t make it elsewhere.
i hate it when the manager likes his players, its horrible…they … they start to have confidence
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
Yeah, or...
The manager plays a guy who sucked so much the other team traded him for a used fungo bat and a clubhouse radio.
No amount of confidence in the world makes up for lackluster production.
I give BC credit...
for establishing and building a great farm system (which now seems to be floundering) which JS rode as far as he could before dismounting, but IMHO if you’re going to rebuild, then you do it from the top down. Times change, people change, philosophies actually change. Change can be good; too much allegiance can be disastrous!
Go back to the hole you came out of. You obviously don’t know anything about baseball. I could list the instances of Cox’s blunders this year, but I would need more than this entire page to do it. Perhaps golf is your sport or maybe badmitton. You obviously don’t watch baseball and certainly not Braves games.
fine with me
I like KJ don’t get me wrong but anything to get BC to stop platooning would be a plus. A trade wouldn’t be bad cause it looks like we could have only a what? two RH bats in the order next year but Prado is ok I just want to take a look at Infante as well cause that dude can hit as well. If we could trade KJ for in a package for a LF with some power i would be happy with that.
Bobby would..
..find a way to platoon someone. That’s one of his signature things man, that and falling in love with the wrong players (Greg Norton, Corky Miller, Chris Reistma).
Sorry, but...
I would not include Greg Norton in that group. He came here to be a bench player, not a platoon player, and he has done a great job — can’t think of anyone we have had lately that I would rather have pinch hitting with the game on the line. If I were going to platoon him, he would be playing first base instead of Prado!
I think giving Prado an every day role would be one of the most braindead moves the Braves could make this offseason. He’s a great infield reserve and has shown the ability contribute offensively and defensively as a 2B/3B…in limited roles. I doubt he’d OPS 700 as a regular and he doesn’t add much speedwise to offset such a line. We’ve likely seen the best and worst of Kelly Johnson the past two years; if he settles down in the middle we have an above-average 2nd baseman for three seasons.
Bingo..
..have to agree with that. Prado is back up at best, and that might be where he excell’s. But if he’s put into a everyday role he’s going to get figured out in a quick hurry.
MAYBE just maybe Prado has figured out how to hit in the majors. Maybe he was a late bloomer. Heck Ludwick of the Cards was a really late bloomer but good thing they gave him a chance. Yall could be right he could get figured out and stink or may not, you have NO proof that he will or wont stink if givin a chance to play everyday. Only way to know for sure is to let him play and see. Im not sayin we should trade KJ just to be trading him but if we can get a good deal that helps us at LF or SP then we SHOULD do it.
braves#1
maybe you’re taking way too much solace in a very small sample size. look at his career minors numbers, which come close to 2000 ABs. not encouraging.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
You could be right about Prado, but if we get a good LF or starter for KJ we should take it. You have to realize we do have Lillibridge and Infante and Diory Hernandez also just in case Prado cannot handle the job. Im sure one of those 4 guys can handle Second base for at least a year.
braves#1
does OPS for a second baseman HAVE to be good? I mean mainly a good second baseman plays good defense and a decent production with the bat is mainly what they do. This is what i like from a second baseman. Tough, gritty, will stay and try to turn a double play, plays good defense, will have a solid batting average, maybe 5-15 homers, solid OBP.
Im not sayin stats like OPS and stuff like that dont matter but i dont pay attention to that stat concerning a second baseman and neither should anybody.
braves#1
The idea that there isn’t a position on the field that should be expected to produce offensively is right out of the 70s. Prado has a good-great glove, but not one that can support a sub 700 OPS and still be anything but below average.
?
Good-great glove? NO F-ing WAY. Prado is not a good defensive 2b and neither is Kelly, but Kelly has more pop in his bat and if we had a manager that knew how to use him, then noone would want to trade KJ.
by JFP on Sep 1, 2008 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
well how should Bobby use him then? The dude is an unbelieveably streaky hitter so how should he be used then?
braves#1
They need to stop platooning Kelly and ping ponging him in the lineup like he's a red-headed stepchild.
And stop telling him to “be more aggressive” when his approach before was fine.
i never said second base should NOT be expected to produce offensively i just said not as much offensively as all the other positions and that IS the truth whether you wanna hear it or not.
braves#1
Uh, a sub 700 OPS is NOT producing offensively, despite however you might want to spin it. Three batting title qualifiers at 2B have produced a sub 700 OPS this year.
And RZR and BP’s Rate has Prado as above average in 2007 at 2B. They disagree in 2008.
I’m in favor of trading Johnson, but the idea that Prado not Lillibridge will be his eventual replacement is kind of funny.
but
if you would have READ above I said IF Prado cant handle it then Lillibridge, Infante OR Diory Hernandez can probably fill in for a year to do a decent enough job at Second.
Yeah its so funny to think that Lillibridge can handle being the starting Second baseman for us instead of Prado when MOST of the year Lillibridge was hovering around the mendoza line in AAA. NOW that is kind of funny.
braves#1
he hit better in the majors than he did in the minors. whats your point?
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
Lillibridge
hit .208 average, 1 homerun, and 6 RBI’s at the majors in 53 at bats this year. Small sample size, is that REALLY the best you can come up with? WOW just wow. hahahahhahaahaahahahahha. This is my point whats yours? oh yeah the .208, 1, and 6 is your point. hahhahahhahahhaha. Lay off the drinkin when your tryin to make a good argument. hahahhaha.
braves#1
That's because Bobby Cox falls in love with players
And he likes Prado. Lillibridge has (or had if you put that much weight into Prado’s current hot streak) the better track record. Plus he’s a short stop, so he’s probably better defensively.
Tough? Gritty? Oh crap is he Eckstein?
Prado’s defense is probably overrated. He’s fundamentally sound but he’s not really fleet of foot. We need a larger sample size in the majors to really judge, but he’s probably not even much better than Kelly, if at all.
His OBP will not be solid. His walk rate isn’t high enough for the kind of average he hits at.
“Im not sayin stats like OPS and stuff like that dont matter but i dont pay attention to that stat concerning a second baseman and neither should anybody.”
? Chase Utley has a nice OPS
well
Eckstein does have 2 championships and a MVP of the World Series, i would take success like that from Prado for a second baseman thats for sure.
I mean if you can get a guy like Utley, Uggla, Cano, or whoever that can produce like that at second then GREAT but second base is just not a position that you HAVE to have somebody produces GREAT with the bat thats all im sayin here.
braves#1
was Sojo ever a starter for them though? I mean im sure he got a start from time to time but i dont ever remember him bein a starter for any championship team. I could be wrong though and if I am please correct me.
braves#1
he won 5 rings. that was your major argument with eckstein, that he won rings. but if you wanna go that route, scott brosius has 3 rings, and a career OPS+ of 94. he is also a world series MVP. and NO ONE would EVER consider scott brosius a competent starter, unless you’re a yankees fan…in which case, your opinion is horribly biased.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
and if you wanna go FURTHER down that route…pat borders has 2 rings and a WS MVP award. he also has a career OPS+ of 77.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
well
my argument was Eckstein was a Starter. Im definately no Yankees fan but his career with the Yankees was not awful, not great but not awful, prolly decent. Prado, or Lillibridge, or Infante, or Diory Hernandez just has to be decent at Second base thats all i am sayin.
braves#1
That's why Eckstein is so freaking BAD
No one has anything good to say about his ability. He’s an average defender and below offensive player. He’s not even a speed guy like Pierre (who also sucks). BUT Eckstein’s scrappy! He runs harder to 1st than anyone! 2 rings! WS MVP! I bet I run harder to 1st than Eckstein, but that doesn’t make me a good ballplayer by any stretch of the imagination.
You came off really extreme in your first post since you basically said no one needs to pay attention to OPS for a 2B. Of course you don’t have to have elite production at second, but there’s no reason to take replacement level (or below) production at 2B from someone who’s maybe a little above average defensively, especially when you have better options.
ok
put it this way if we can somehow get a good LF or Starter for KJ then trade him and see if somebody in house can put up what KJ is puttin up this year but if we cant get a good LF or starter then keep him and play him at second base again. Either way is fine with me so i dont really know why we are still havin this conversation.
braves#1
i guess everybody thinks im down on KJ but im not, I was just thinkin MAYBE we could get a good LF or starter for KJ and maybe just maybe somebody in house can put up the same numbers or close to the same numbers as KJ is puttin up this year. But if we cant get somethin good for KJ i am ALL for keepin him cause i know that KJ is a good player and he next year he could put up better numbers.
braves#1
It's because you're in love with Prado
And making broad generalizations like how no one should use OPS to judge a 2B, how there’s “no proof” that Prado can’t keep up his insane production, and how rings validates a player. That’s what everyone’s been talking about.
I think most people can live with trading Kelly if we get a fair haul. Cox misuses him and Pendleton tells him to hack away so we’re not getting full value from him. And if we trade Kelly, then the 2B for next year should be Lillibridge. He has more potential than Prado.
You just insulted Ryan Ludwick
He was a second round pick and had OPS seasons of .800 – .900 in the minors when he was 21-24. It was the PCL, but he wasn’t a bad player. He’s a big strong guy too. 6’3, 200+ lbs. People expected him to be pretty decent at least. What hurt Ludwick the most was his injury history. The guy was really fragile for a corner outfielder. No one wanted to give him a chance cause of that. If he was a pitcher, he’d be more broken down than Hampton.
“you have NO proof that he will or wont stink if givin a chance to play everyday.”
Odarp’s BABIP is like .380+ right now. It’s not going to stay that high. Nobody’s does. And his power isn’t going to stay, because his minors OPS is .740 or so. Where’d he get all those power from? Luck or roids? What makes you think he can even keep up .800 in the majors when he can’t even do .740 in the minors?
My Thoughts Exactly.
Get out of my head! No, seriously, your analysis is spot on.
Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/
Trade
I think we should figure out a package including Kelly to pick up Zach Greinke. We could really use him.
Wouldn't...
hurt my feelings, but I’m not sure you wouldn’t have to give more.
A nice thought but unlikely...
Unless the Braves included some low-level, highly rated starting pitching of their own, that trade is nothing more than a dream. The Royals are again in love with Zach Greinke (maybe because of Bannisters struggles) this trade would’ve been more likely at the deadline when KJ’s value was higher.
According to this..
…Grienke, among others off limits.
Moore has tagged him with untouchable as far as trades go.
No one is ever...
off limits, but you’re going to have to give a bunch to get him!
The OP's handle is epic.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
does that make him faster, like it did for lance armstrong
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
And sometimes...
it gets in the way and he can’t see the ball.
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