Brian McCann.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 22, 2008 11:31 AM EDT
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PrintIn a year that has, for lack of a better term, sucked there a couple things that we can hang our hats on. One of them is that we have possible the best catcher in the entire MLB. BP recently came out with a list of the top-100 players in the game. What was the criteria?
If you were starting a baseball team from scratch, which players would you want to build your team around? That is, which players would you take—and in what order would you take them—if your goal was to win as many championships as possible over the medium-to-long-term?
There's a long list of ground rules (all present contracts are wiped out, off-field factors such as marketability are not considered, the rankings are entirely forward-looking, etc) but the list itself had quite a few surprises. The best one of course being the inclusion of Heap...the only Brave to make the team (Chipper got honorable mention, which is impressive as it is because the list is supposed to be about building a team for the next 10 years):
11. Brian McCann, C, Braves, Age 24 (9). Catchers who hit like this don’t grow on trees. Since World War II, in fact, just seven catchers aged 24 or younger have hit .300 or better in a season in which they also hit 20 home runs. Those are Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra, Gary Carter, Carlton Fisk, Mike Piazza, Joe Torre—and McCann, who did so in 2006 and has a chance to do so again this year.
Soto was #47. Martin was #26. Matt Wieters, who has yet to even play a major league game, was # 32. Joe Mauer did come in at #7, though.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Heap vs. Mauer
It looks close, but in my eyes, I don’t quite see why Mauer seems to always get the nod over Heap in all sorts of catcher comparisons. Heap seems to have better power numbers, a slightly higher lifetime OPS, more homers, more RBI, and doesn’t have the luxury of DHing every now and then to save his knees, and all with one less season under his belt. Batting average is one of the things Mauer is slightly better at, but most people tend to throw that out the door. Mauer’s getting stolen on is also significantly lower, but I’d ponder how his numbers would look if he had to play against Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, and Hanley Ramirez 19 times a season each.
I mean, starting a team with scratch, you really can’t go wrong with either. But I think that McCann is a better pick over Mauer, but various outlets don’t quite seem to see it similarly. In the words of bigjoe, it must be “because he’s fat.” Chubbies get no love, compared to Mauer’s clean good looks and Brady Anderson-esque sideburns.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
BP was expecting Mauer to project for more power, which he hasn’t been doing. Because of this he’s slipping down their rankings (he was #2 last year). McCann has the power on his side, while Mauer has the better defense. Mauer probably gets the edge because of his OBP. He’s in the process of having his second .400+ OBP season, where McCann’s career high is .388 (still terrific, don’t get me wrong).
You do bring up a good point about the base thieves. Sizemore has the most steals with 31 in the AL Central, and the next best player Mauer’s own CF. Joey Gathright is 3rd with 21 steals. Compare that to McCann having to deal with Jose Reyes (40), Rollings (31), Hanley (29), and Victorino (28). Now…it’d be really interesting to see how many times each of them has swipped a bag with McCann/Mauer behind the plate.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 22, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
In 2007
When the Twins drew the NL East in Interleague, here’s what I found:
Jose Reyes, 1/1 SB
Nook Logan, 1/1 SB
Hanley Ramirez, 0/1 CS
Kelly Johnson, 0/1 CS
Jesus Flores, 0/1 CS
and my favorite:
Chipper Jones, 1/1 SB, off of Johan Santana to Joe Mauer.
By the weird virtue of interleague and “natural rivalries,” the Twins avoid the Phillies and take on the Brewers six times, where Bill Hall is the only Brewer to steal on Mauer that year. Corey Hart had 3 SBs, but all were in games where Johnny Estrada or Todd Redmond was catching.
Yes yes – small sample.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Everyone knows that McCann is the better hitter
Well at least I hope they do. Mauer is definitely the second best hitting catcher though. Mauer also happens to be one of the best defensive catchers. Maybe the best?
I totaled up the AL/NL steal percentages and the AL is 72.8% and the NL is 73.4% (or maybe the other way around). I also did it for the NL East minus Braves vs the AL Central minus the Twins. East is a 76% and Central is at 69%. Still, Mauer’s career caught steal % is in the 30’s while McCann is about 20 so that doesn’t cover the discrepancy. You can also make the argument that the AL Central % is lower because of Mauer and someone like I-Rod being there for most of the season. Then again someone like Pierzynski brings it down. Any outstanding defensive catchers in the NL East? Mauer can block pitches better too since he’s more athletic. Really though, there should be no argument that Mauer is the better defensive catcher by a significant margin, just like there should be no argument that McCann is the better hitter by a good margin.
I think people just happen to value defense more at catcher. If they were both 1B or LF then McCann would win no doubt. Of course I’d pick McCann in a heartbeat.
Beard is right about the projection thing too.
I wonder when McCann is going to get moved from catcher. Not cause I think he’s a bad catcher (average in my eyes), but he’s just too good of a hitter. Wouldn’t it be great to have less stress on his body, extend his career, and get his bat in for 20-30 more games a season?
All valid points
And I wholeheartedly agree about Mauer’s superior defensive prowess. I don’t think McCann is a slouch by any stretch of the imagination, but his additional girth is what probably prevents him from making certain goalie-like contortions to prevent a bad pitch from squirting through.
I know there are people out there who are advocates against base stealing, so I’m guessing BP writers have more of a supporting attitude, if they’re theoretically putting Mauer’s defensive prowess as justifiable means to place him over McCann.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
To be honest, I think they value his ability to take a walk more than his defense:
. Joe Mauer, C, Twins, Age 25 (2). An outstanding defensive catcher who is capable of winning batting titles and posting a .416 OBP is a rare and wonderful thing. The question is whether Mauer is ever going to be able to develop his power stroke to the point where he’s hitting 20 home runs a year rather than 10. He is certainly a big enough guy to have some projectable power left in his bat, but with each year that passes without him seeing a power spike, it becomes incrementally less likely. As such, he has drifted downward slightly in our rankings.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if Heap’s walk numbers would increase if he were consistently placed third in the batting order with a Justin Morneau-caliber hitter, batting cleanup right behind him, for practically an entire season, like Mauer has, instead of being shuffled 5th or 6th depending on the pitcher’s throwing arm, or finally slotted as the cleanup hitter with Kotsays, Infantes and Nortons batting behind him instead?
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Wouldn’t that result in more pitches to hit? You wouldn’t walk Mauer to put him on base for Morneau. If anything hitting in a situation like that would increase McCann’s counting stats, BA, and SLG.
Hitting 5th or 6th should be the perfect spot in the lineup for Heap to rack up walks because the pitchers should be pitching around him to get to the Kotsays, Infantes, and Nortons.
Mauer just has a better batter’s eye and has had it for more of his professional career. Mauer was walking in 11% of his PAs in the minors and is up to 14% this season. Heap was walking in 8% of his PAs in the minors and is up to 10% this season.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Good points. My initial thought was that Heap could’ve been feeling like he needed to make something happen himself, because of the inconsistent hitting of the Kotsays, Infantes and Nortons behind him. It’s like when watching a game, and when you see Chipper walk with two outs, and Heap comes and draws a walk, I kind of feel this deflated dread when Norton or Francoeur comes to the plate next. I felt that Heap might feel a similar lack of confidence in the hitters behind him as well, which is why he doesn’t nurse the walks like he could. Where as I felt that Mauer could be selective, and use his superior eye to only go for the pitches he wanted to, and if not, it’s okay to walk, because Morneau is right behind him.
But I agree with what you’re saying, Heap could’ve been drawing more walks batting 5th or 6th, but he wasn’t.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
What you’ve said makes sense as well. I think we can all agree that what you described is the mindsight Francoeur takes to the plate every AB. It’s very difficult to determine what is really going on inside McCann’s head aside from straight up asking him. Although his split stats on BR show that he walks in 8% of PAs as the cleanup hitter, 9% as the 5th hitter, and 11% as the 6th hitter. All small sample sizes.
A situation like this is part of the fun in figuring out whether or not the myth of lineup protection is just that…a myth. Personally I feel like McCann is just now learning his plate discipline. In a couple of years I believe he may overtake Mauer in those rankings.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Quite often, I have this joke with some of my friends that I theorize that if baseball were introduced to a completely oblivious-to-the-sport society, if the sport could be in essence “re-grown” to a version of the game where a lot of questionable myths and psychological adversities didn’t exist. Example, don’t ever once introduce into the heads of this new crop of players a concept of pitch counts, or the adamant need for five days of rest. Don’t introduce the concept of batting order and have a definitive list of objectives for each number in the order, and see how the hitters respond in various positions.
Kind of like that movie “The Village,” but instead of people being oblivious and secluded from the flaws of modern “civilized” society, it would be baseball players that don’t have any idea of the concepts and myths that seem to arguably bother and influence today’s baseball players all the way from their earliest development to their later stages of their careers.
Heap vs. Mauer – I still like Heap more, because I am biased, and I like his power and hustle, and admittedly, I just haven’t seen enough Mauer to make a full definitive decision. They’re both so similar; local boys playing for their hometown teams, very talented hitters, both arguably the best catchers in their leagues, and cornerstones for their franchises, so the bottom line is that you just can’t go wrong with either.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
So…you mean if you didn’t constantly have broadcasters giving everyone wrong information during the games?
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about? I thought Fausto Carmona vs. Andy Pettitte was the greatest pitching match-up in October history?
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Haha +1
You gonna be in the nation’s capital this weekend?
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You know
I just might. (not guaranteed, flying standby)
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Let me know.
I’m going to Friday night’s game, and then either Sat or Sun…not sure which.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
The plan is to get there Thursday night, and definitely go to Friday’s game, and then have a typical social Saturday with my local buds, and then likely go to the game on Sunday before I head back home.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Sounds good. My email is below if you want to send me your number.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
nice email address, thanks, jh
I’ll send you my number before i leave at some point.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Ha, that’s just my name.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Roy...
…just got off the phone with my mom and she gave me the wrong date. Tix I have are for Saturday’s game. Not sure if I’m going to Friday or Sunday.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll see what I can do
None of my game plans are guaranteed, I tend to do things spurt of the moment often.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
BEARD
WTF is wrong with Nationals fans? I mean, I know that people are pompous money-grubbing materialistic snobs up in DC firsthand, but come on now – $60 a ticket for dugout seats in a game featuring the worst team in the National League and the third worst?
What have is a case of realism v. perception, and the reality is that both teams aren’t doing so hot, but their tickets are perceived in the eyes of DC. ticket holders as being worth a “value” of 80% of the face value. I think I’ll wait for them to start contacting me when nobody wants their overpriced tickets before this weekend.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Yeah man…I read somewhere that the seats directly behind home plate were the most expensive seats in baseball at the start of the season.
The front office seems to forget that fans aren’t going to pay those prices just because a team exists. The team needs to be moving in a positive direction.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 26, 2008 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I made this post somewhere, and all I’m getting now are a whole bunch of offers for outfield seats and links to ebay auctions, where “Braves” and “Nationals” are the query, and all results are either DC outfield seats, or seats at Turner Field I could get without much effort.
I’d rather pay for a generic upper deck seat and take satisfaction that some clown is going to eat the cost for their ticket than pay them premium dollar for a game featuring two of the worst teams in the National League.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
The game where FYF hit 20% of his HRs this year I was sitting in my uncle’s expensive season ticket seats. Meanwhile, my roomate was at the game with his dad in the $6 section and said the view was great.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 26, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Ain't nothin' cheap about D.C....
except the politicians.
If you look at the two players that he is sandwiched between you really start to get an idea of how good Heap really is:
- - Jake Peavy
- - Brian McCann
- - Johan Santana
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 22, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm...
…that turned out wierd. Should have hit preview…supposed to be:
12 – Jake Peavy
11 – Brian McCann
10 – Johan Santana
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 22, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm working on a McCann post..
…and from what I’ve been looking at. He’s the best Braves catcher in the last 30 years, hands down. Only Javy has a slight advantage in some areas, but that’s because of more playing time but that could even itself out in the long run.
Looking forward to your post. Heap is certainly my favorite non-Chipper/Smoltz Brave right now.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 22, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Hanley is #1. The closest FYF comes to making the list is the following comment about Jay Bruce (#23):
…it might not be the worst thing that Bruce has struggled at times in the second half, as it may force him to learn the plate discipline that folks like Jeff Francouer never did.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 22, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Never?
Even though I’m down on Frenchy he’s still young, and that comment seems to imply that he never WILL learn plate disciple; which is garbage to call at this point in his career (IMO).
by soup du jour on Aug 22, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I took it more as in Bruce’s 2nd season. Bruce will need to work extra this offseason to improve his plate discipline, which the writer feels is something that FYF didn’t do and is hurting him now because of it.
Does that make sense? I think I just confused myself with my own explanation, ha…
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 22, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh, I see.
Yeah, it makes sense. Although I think “didn’t do” works better than “never did”.
I think “…and is hurting him now because of it.” is a glorious understatement. Unless by ‘hurting’ you mean “run over by a mac-truck hurting”.
by soup du jour on Aug 22, 2008 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha...
…touche.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
If
I heard my name bein talked about like that, that would make me work the hardest in the offseason that I have ever worked in my life. Yes I know he worked hard this past offseason with gettin more stronger but maybe this offseason just work hard and concentrate on a batting stance and STICK with it. I mean Frenchy got killed by that comment. Yes he is havin a very bad season but he is only 24 years old. He has made the playoffs, won a gold glove, had 29 homers in a year, had a .290 batting average in a year and all that at age 24.
My expectations of next seasons total might be wishful thinking but I really believe he could put up a line like .270-.275 average, 20-25 homers, 75-90 RBI’s, and .340 OBP maybe, along with Great defense in RF. I think he is capable of that in the future. Im not gonna put my expectations any higher though but if he does somethin like that then that is a good year and we would take that every year from him. But of course he may not even do that good but he has the ability to do that good though.
braves#1
those still aren’t horribly great numbers for a corner OF
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
But I would still definitely take them for FYF
Because it would show vast improvement. Then we could talk about how he could become that .300/35/120 guy we know he could be.
by soup du jour on Aug 22, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Gold Glove voters are dumb
Derek Jeter has Gold Gloves. Or how about Rafael Palmero winning a Gold Glove for 28 games at 1B? Francoeur’s defense is down this year and a lot of people are saying it’s because Andruw as gone. More ground to cover without the greatest CF since Mays patrolling the outfield.
Francoeur is just bad… Even at his best it was something like .330 OBP and .440 slugging? He’s very, very average at best. And that’s okay. But people need to stop acting like he’s good.
HEAP for MVP
I know it is a long shot, but what do ya’ll think about Heap’s chances at MVP… obviously the knock on him is he plays for the braves, and they are not very good this year (to say the least)… but he has good power numbers, good amount of RBI, and a good avg, on top of playing catcher… since no one else has stepped up to win this award it seems like it could be a darkhorse player to win this year.
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
Heap
I’ve never figured out the Mauer thing. I guess it’s a hangover from being drafted so high. He’s a good talent, sort of like Biggio, but Heap has a chance to be a perennial 30/2 guy.
His improvement at hitting lefties is just amazing, and he’s a very solid defensive catcher. I think there’s a lot to be said for the “fat” theory. He’s not really fat, just unathletic looking. Now Horner was fat.
Hanley was the obvious No. 1. I’d like to see the rest of the list. Tex has to be up there, along with Grady Sizemore.
Me, I would always go with a middle infielder with a bat. They’re the rarest commodity in baseball. The NL East is amazing in the quality of its middle infielders. I can’t remember a division that was so strong that way. Escobar, Utley, Rollins, Ramirez, Uggla, and Reyes. And the also-rans, like Kelly, are pretty good too.
As for Heap for MVP, it’s still wide open. I think Ramirez has to be the favorite at the moment, though.
I’ve been watching the Braves online and so get the opposing announcers a lot. They all love Heap. I heard the Phillies announcers say he was the most under-rated player in baseball, and the Cubs announcers said roughly the same thing.
That said, players for lousy teams only win if they have a SICK year, and Heap is just having a very good one.
by Mekons5 on Aug 24, 2008 2:04 PM EDT reply actions
Some of the ones you mentioned...
1 – Hanley Ramirez
5 – Grady Sizemore
6 – Jose Reyes
13 – Chase Utley
33 – Jimmy Rollins
38 – Mark Teixiera
48 – Dan Uggla
All the writeups are really interesting, but I’d say the thing that surprised me most was that they rated Evan Longoria at #4 behind only Ramirez, Wright, and Pujols. Kid is going to be good…
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 25, 2008 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
SI has posted the list in its entirety for those interested. I originally thought it was top-100 but it’s only top-50 with some honorable mention:
Players 1-25
Players 26-50
Honorable Mention
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
McCann at 1B
I wouldn’t be opposed to moving McCann to first base if Tyler Flowers continues his incredible hitting in the minors. What a luxury to have a great catcher in the majors and a great prospect in the minors. Many teams can boast neither.
Flowers is more..
..the first baseman type and has more experience at it that Heap. So keep Heap behind the dish and let Flowers work first base.
As long as...
he stays healthy. Bad knees could “force” him to 1B since his (lack of) speed limits him anywhere else. I did enjoy that triple almost as much as Chipper earlier this year, though — Mc was really churning up the dust!
3 Catchers
That would be amazing especially if the could backup each other at the plate with maybe another purely defensive backstop on the roster. That way we would be victimized by the light hitting backups we’ve had in the past (Blanco, Pratt, MILLER!) though Clint Sammons hasn’t disappointed.
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