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Reyes vs. Harrison

When the Braves traded for Mark Teixeira last year there was one prospect I was really disappointed about losing (for clarification, most of those prospects I was disappointed about losing, but there was one I was "really" disappointed about), and that was left-handed starter Matt Harrison. In the 2003 draft the Braves selected Jo-Jo Reyes in the second round and Matt Harrison in the third round, so in the eyes of the Braves, Reyes was the better prospect to keep.

There was not too much I could point to statistically to say that I liked Harrison more than Reyes, except for the fact that Harrison averaged almost half an inning more per appearance than did Reyes. Harrison was not overpowering and he wasn't really a strikeout guy, not that Reyes was defined as a strikeout guy either, but he certainly racked up more than Harrison.

My desire to keep Harrison over Reyes was what I considered Matt's pitchability over Jo-Jo. Now I realize that one really can't define pitchability consistently, but I throw it out there because it's one of those things that you either see in a pitcher or you don't -- and I saw it in Harrison. I liked the fact that he had racked up almost 150 more innings in the minor leagues than Reyes had, even though a lot of that was due to Reyes missing time because of injuries. Those extra innings amount to an extra half-season to season of experience for Harrison. What I had seen of the two told me that while both were good prospects and smart pitchers, Harrison was the better of the two (I was occasionally chastised for this opinion, and may still be).

Here's how they compare this year (keeping in mind that Jo-Jo had 50.2 innings of experience last year):


W-L G GS CG SHO SV BS IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP
2008 - Jo-Jo Reyes 3-9 16 15 0 0 0 0 82.2 92 52 49 10 38 64 5.33 1.57


W-L G GS CG SHO SV BS IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP
2008 - Matt Harrison 5-2 8 8 0 0 0 0 43.2 49 32 28 6 19 15 5.77 1.56

Pretty damn equal, I'd say. They both are having problems with giving up too many hits and walks, and both are having some great games and some not so great games. The Rangers are certainly scoring a lot more runs for Harrison than the Braves have scored for Jo-Jo, which results in a better record.

Two lessons here, (1) what the hell do I know about young pitchers (not a lot), and (2) it's probably way too early to tell which guy will be more successful in the majors. There's a lot of pressure on Reyes when he starts against the Mets tonight. The Braves seem to be losing a bit of patience with him as he hasn't made any great strides to make them think that he can be successful long-term in the majors. He has made improvements over last year, but he is still susceptible to being made to look like he has no business pitching above rookie ball.

These two pitchers will be one of the ways we measure the Teixeira trade in the coming years, so we will certainly keep our eye on both of them in the future.

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Personally....

I liked Matt Harrison better than I did Reyes and I wish Reyes had been in the Tex deal instead of him. But, the Braves’ FO usually knows what they’re doing and we haven’t really seen them give up many prospects that have panned out.

by bravesfan91 on Aug 19, 2008 4:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not So Even.

If you even out their playing time, there isn’t a single stat in which Harrison would be better than Reyes. That said, the K rates/ratios are the only significant difference between the two guys. Jo-Jo has been bad, but Matt has certainly been worse.

Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/

by ejruiz on Aug 19, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

also, re: OMGZ WINS. JOJO gets a whopping 2.83 runs of support a game. matt harrison gets…7.21. SEVEN POINT TWO ONE.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Aug 19, 2008 5:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I

was glad that Harrison was in the trade, because I like Reyes more. I personally view Reyes as a number 3 starter down the road and Harrison as a number 4 or 5 starter down the road. Yeah the K/BB is not even close gondee. I mean when one dude has 26 more k’s than BB and the other dude has 4 more BB than K’s tell you that that is just not similar at all.

The Braves are starting to irritate me with the way they are handling Reyes. I mean we need to keep Reyes up and let him take his lumps. Heck it aint like Smoltz and Glavine were great there first FULL year in the majors. We need to give him time to develop but it seems like we dont have the patience to wait. Not all young pitchers pitch like Jurrjens does right away. Reyes has sparkled in some games and yes he has looked bad in others but its a complete joke how we are handling him right now. No reason for him to EVER go back to AAA again.

braves#1

by rockybull on Aug 19, 2008 6:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Reyes..

…isn’t anywhere close to a #3 guy. I see bullpen in his future, he’s just not stable enough for the starting rotation. The more and more I watch him the more depressed I get, honestly I think this is one of his last shots at being in the rotation now or in the future.

by RainDelay on Aug 19, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i understand your irritation

but reyes’ problem with BB tends to force him out of games way too early, resulting in a taxed bullpen. sucking is okay, but it’d be nice to see him suck for 5 or 6 innings, throwing too many pitches right down the middle as opposed to the walks — this way you give your defense a chance to bail you out of tough innings.

by brndn on Aug 19, 2008 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've...

never really seen Jo Jo as anything more than the second coming of Horacio Ramirez. Has the stuff but not the control to get major leaguers out. Bullpen might be the best option for him.

I think Jo Jo is a more viable option than Harrison, but neither impress me at all.

by soup du jour on Aug 19, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ho-Ram? Really?

Jo-Jo strikes out more guys than Ramirez. Jo-Jo’s a ton better than that guy.

Take a look at their stuff:
Ho-Ram 2007 (no 2008 data or earlier data for him)
Jo-Jo 2008

Ho-Ram’s pitches are so bad that 2 or 3 are probably classified wrong. Only 5 MPH difference between the Change and Fastball? Gees…

Reyes has a good curve and an okay changeup. That splitter (if that’s what it is) is something he didn’t throw in 2007. Looks like a nice pitch.

Jo-Jo has good stuff. It’s his control and probably confidence he needs to work on.

by VictorW on Aug 20, 2008 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ho-Ram has one walk this season in 24.1 IP. That’s impressive.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 20, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look at their minor league stats.

Jo-Jo’s problem is his walks. He gives up too many at the major league level and it’s a little high in the minors. Harrison was good with walks in the minors. Jo-Jo has a ton more strike out ability than Harrison though. Jo-Jo has 2 more SOs than Harrison does in the minors and Harrison has like 170 innings more pitched in the minors. Harrison’s home run rate is worse than Jo-Jo’s as well. Both the minor and major league numbers show this.

Reyes has better stuff too I think, which is why he gets so many more SOs. Really Jo-Jo’s only problem is the walks. If he can get those down to an average level and have some confidence at the major league level, then he’ll be a good pitcher. Reyes has the higher ceiling, and he’s the better pitcher now, but a year older.

by VictorW on Aug 19, 2008 6:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I am surprised...

…people can’t see Harrison’s problem…the kid can’t strike anyone out. 15ks in 43 innings is terrible, and he never has high k rate in the minor. Harrison will have a lot of problem in the major league level if he can not improve his k rate to 4.5 per 9 innings.

by kstchiu on Aug 19, 2008 10:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if there is one pitcher...

…I hate seeing the Braves traded away in the Tex deal, it is Neftali Feliz. I was shocked when I saw his name included in the deal.

by kstchiu on Aug 19, 2008 11:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Aug 19, 2008 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bingo.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 20, 2008 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can...

…write that couple more times too…if there is one pitcher I hate seeing the Braves traded away in the Tex deal, it is Neftali Feliz. I was shocked when I saw his name included in the deal.

…ha, I am bored like that.

by kstchiu on Aug 21, 2008 9:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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