Teixeira Traded to Angels
by gondeee on Jul 29, 2008 6:13 PM EDT
in Trade News
143 comments
The conclusion of...
According to ESPN's Jayson Stark, the Braves have traded Mark Teixeira to the Angels for Casey Kotchman and Steven Marek. Keep in mind this is early and the details of these trades when first reported are often times foggy.
Kotchman was pulled off the field during pregame warmups at Fenway Park on Tuesday afternoon, further fueling speculation that a deal was in place.
More to come... I'm sure...
Update - 6:55pm
So this Steven Marek guy is actually a reliever. The Angels converted him to a starter after he was a reliever in Junior College (are you surprise the Braves liked him), he has apparently reverted to relieving again this year.
He was a 2005 draft-and-follow who signed for $800K. He is a fastball, curve, change guy and even though he's a right-hander, he seems to fair better against left-handers because of his change-up. Baseball America rated him as the 6th best prospect in the Angels system to begin 2008 and projects him as a mid-rotation starter. It seems that has changed in the eyes of the Angles who converted him back to a reliever.
John Sickels says that his velocity fell off quite a bit from Junior College to the pros, and he is no longer an overpowering pitcher. It will be interesting to see what the Braves do with him -- wheather they convert him back to a starter or keep him as a reliever. On first blush it looks like we traded for Joey Devine circa 2007.
So... Casey Kotchman is the real prize... hum...
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Its a good trade
Much Much better than the two draft picks.
Marek has a power arm and could be good
Kotchman is under control for a long time
just think if we had gotten Owings and Tracy, would you be gripping then?
Remember this morning it was looking like the angels would give up Kotchman only if Ohman was included. We could still trade ohman for a solid return.
by colerocks on Jul 29, 2008 6:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So basically...
We gave up Feliz, Andrus, Salty, Harrison, and Beau Jones for Kotchman, Marek, and a year of Teixeira.
Utter shit.
by drdonkeypunch on Jul 29, 2008 6:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don’t forget we got Brett DeVall out of the deal as well.
by soup du jour on Jul 29, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds unbalanced, but what would we have done with Andrus and Salty if we would have held onto them? So I’m not sure that the first Tex trade really hurt us as much as it looks like.
by skipcaray on Jul 29, 2008 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You will all love Casey
You are a lucky bunch of fans. You are about to meet a great all-around baseball player.
His bat is just now developing pop, already has gap power and the guy knows how to take a walk.
His glove is the best. That you will see right away.
As an Angels fan I am bummed by this move. I was counting on Casey growing old as an Angel.
by Rev Halofan on Jul 29, 2008 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
walks
He walked like 30 times last year, and like dwbrave said, he’s taken 18 this year.
He may know how to physically propel his legs in a forward fashion, using friction against the earth to propel himself towards 1st base, but other than that, I don’t think he knows how to take a walk.
by drdonkeypunch on Jul 29, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, “he many know how…” certainly merits a +1
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 30, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my inability to re-type the correct sentence right in front of me, however, merits a -1
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 30, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were a Halos fan I would be estatic with this move. I realize that you’ve grown attached to Kotchman, but given their situation, if you didn’t have to give up Wood or Adenhart, I would consider it a big victory.
by soup du jour on Jul 29, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a fan of Kotchman. Little power. I knew there wasn’t a great market for 2 months of Tex.
by dwbrave on Jul 29, 2008 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I posted this in the other thread
but Gameday has Teixeira still listed in the Braves lineup tonight. Obviously he could be a late scratch, just wondering if the zealous media didn’t jump the gun?
by scstrato on Jul 29, 2008 6:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Knows how to take a walk? He only has 18 walks this year.
by dwbrave on Jul 29, 2008 6:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually don't like this trade.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh fuck am i pissed. i caused such a scene in the bar i was in that i almost got kicked out.
by the way, steven marek is a reliever. A MOTHERFUCKING RELIEVER. WE TRADED THE BEST MOTHERFUCKING PLAYER ON THE MARKET FOR A FIRST BASEMAN WHO CAN’T HIT A DINGER OR TAKE A WALK AND A FUCKING AA RELIEVER
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So you’re saying we should’ve held out for Vlady and Lackey?
Just stoking the fire a little … ;-)
by scstrato on Jul 29, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m saying if there were deals on the table involving brandon wood or joe saunders, WHY TAKE A FUCKING AA RELIEVER?!
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, i'm with you man
Just trying to get you GOOD and fired up!!!
by scstrato on Jul 29, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not necessary
we’re already pissed off and fired up.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Wood or Saunders were ever actually on the table
or Wren would have taken it.
by frozen rope on Jul 29, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Saunders
is actually really bad at pitching. Just look at his peripherals. He’s just been a luckbox this year.
by VictorW on Jul 29, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s not a strikeout pitcher, but his WHIP is real low, and his GB/FB over 1. his BABIP is a little low, but his LD% is RIDICULOUSLY low. i’m looking at his peripherals, and not seeing much wrong here.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only thing he's good at
walking people at a decent/good rate. His LD % is unsustainably low (ie. fluke). You can’t give up league average HRs when you don’t K anyone. It’s not a coincidence that his FIP is actually worse than his last 2 years. He will be back to normal next year. I mean I guess he’ll end up being a league average pitcher or so and I definitely overstated what I said. I’m tired of people acting like he’s an ace or all star even. I’d still rather have Kotchman than him. I don’t think Saunders is better than other options we can pick up.
by VictorW on Jul 29, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
see my above comment.
I think it sucks, to be honest.
We have no power except McCann. No one on our team will hit over 30 HRs. Sadly, we can’t manufacture runs either. shit.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
Guess which team isn’t going to try to sign Tex in the offseason?
by soup du jour on Jul 29, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Atlanta?
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have a winner!
Maybe we can try to sign the second incarnation of Hampton in the offseason, like Sheets or Harden.
by soup du jour on Jul 29, 2008 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least THEY are actually good pitchers instead of wastes of space who get over on smoke & mirrors
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like it
It wasn’t a good trade folks…...
Kotchman is a nice player, but let’s be honest, you needed to get a better pitching prospect here!!!!!!!
by NEBravesFan33 on Jul 29, 2008 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
in addition
we have no starting rotation. We have Jair Jurrjens and it is pretty much up in the air after that. Hudson is done. We have nobody that can win 16-17 games. we’re so screwed
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All this means is
that we need to make some very good additions via trade / free agency between now and next year. Hopefull this is just the first piece to the new puzzle
by frozen rope on Jul 29, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why the fuck in fucking fuck did we take this deal after we had a owings tracy deal or a saunders kotchman deal. Casey Kotchman can fuck off
by bravesguy95 on Jul 29, 2008 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That was all speculation, truth is those deals were probably never on the table.
by scstrato on Jul 29, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well then we should have held on to him bc kotchman and a pos prospect are not equal to the two draft picks
by bravesguy95 on Jul 29, 2008 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry but I disagree
who knows what you would have gotten with the draft picks, plus they would not help for 3-5 years. Kotchmann is a major league ready 1B that will be here through 2010. I think this is better than the two draft picks.
by frozen rope on Jul 29, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wren
who knows what was out there, but this must mean that Liberty wasn’t going to even attempt to re-sign Tex to begin with. And what does that mean? Probably means we’re should be used to 4th in east, because if we aren’t going to spend money than we should just forget about it.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i dunno
i’ll judge on july 31, maybe some pitching is in the works for our other players on the block.
by TradeAndruw on Jul 29, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
kotchman is just a fucking 3 year placeholder anyway until freeman is ready. we’re not gonna goddamn contend anyway over those 3 years, so why not fucking take BETTER prospects? frank wren is a tool
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How much fault is Wren
and how much fault is owners? its a good analogy…if you won’t pay for teixeira then you will have a kotchman. thus, if you won’t spend money to field a proper team, we will have a mediocre team.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
soup du jour celebrates mediocrity with a swig of bourbon.
by soup du jour on Jul 29, 2008 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know you’ll never criticize anything the braves will do, but why even trade for tex if you know you can’t resign him? if you can’t resign him, why not try to spin him in the offseason for a package of players that doesn’t include a giant ball of suck? if you’re not committed to spending money, why blow 8 million on an over the hill nostalgia trip pitcher?
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I agree.
I criticize this. And I agree, if we weren’t going to resign him we should have traded him in the offseason rather than now.
I thought Glavine was overpriced. I was in favor of bringing him back, but not at 8 mil.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don’t blame the ownership when frank wren is clearly at fault because he lacks the capacities to run a major league team. he ran baltimore into the ground, and if he was in charge of their drafting in 1998, they’d be even worse than they are now, since that draft produced roberts & bedard
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well I guess I want to blame
the faceless corporation over wren, but you’re right.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i guarantee you: will ohman gets traded for a utility infielder. mike gonzalez gets traded for an A-ball LOOGY. jeff francoeur gets traded for cash. and we DON’T sign adam dunn.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL why would we want to sign Adam Dunn?
by yondaime4 on Jul 29, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well im not gonna go off the deepend with you man but seriously he got fleeced when we aquired tex and now we just got fleeced again giving him up
by bravesguy95 on Jul 29, 2008 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do what?
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The comment above stated that Wren got fleeced when he acquired Tex....
Wren did not acquire him JS did. We got fleeced, but Wren did not acquire him.
by frozen rope on Jul 29, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if wren was doing the deal, he’d have included tommy hanson instead of harrison
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what the trade conversation was between Wren and Coletti?
I’m willing to bet they just stared at each other.
by soup du jour on Jul 29, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angels bloggers
Seem pretty damn happy. I’m losing confidence in this deal.
Would be nice to have Neftal Feliz.
by TradeAndruw on Jul 29, 2008 6:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fleeced
Wasn’t usually JS fleecing other GM’s… nice job Ned Colletti oops I mean Frank Wren. God I want to vomit right now.
Chris
by cmdpsu15 on Jul 29, 2008 6:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
plain and simple….this sucks ass and i hope management realizes that we cannot continue to make these kinds of deals and be a successful club
by bravesguy95 on Jul 29, 2008 6:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what are the odds we don’t sign anyone of consequence this offseason and end up having a marlins-esque payroll? i might jump off a cliff.
i also might do that if we sign raul ibanez or trade for jose guillen
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you do realize that our paryoll up until today has been about 10 million more than it has been in the last 3-4 years right?
by yondaime4 on Jul 29, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and we have a shitload of money coming off the books next year. can’t wait for no major FAs to be signed to take up that payroll.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but just because our payroll is up doesn't mean anything
if everyone else is spending more money too.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no but it means the people in charge are willing to spend a little more when the payroll sat in one spot for several years and didn’t move.
by yondaime4 on Jul 29, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well that is true
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More on Marek....
From Baseball Prospectus, I think….
“Right-hander Stephen Marek has one of the better raw arms in the system and tends to throw strikes, but his fastball is straight as an arrow and his secondary stuff lags behind, leaving many to project him as no more than a reliever.”
by secondbass on Jul 29, 2008 6:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so he’s essentially john rocker minus the baggage. awesome
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, great...I'm so happy we got him.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, so far
Give him some time! Especially if we turn into perennial losers….
by secondbass on Jul 29, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh..whoever signs him can pay over $20mm a year for a good second half. Good riddance.
Time to rebuild
by cashew on Jul 29, 2008 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you’re kidding, right?
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but he is worth it, given the market.
Also, his 2nd half is better than most guys full season.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet if Chipper was healthy he would be pissed. He’s going to get a hell of alot of walks the rest of the year.
Time to rebuild
by cashew on Jul 29, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what?
how can yall not be satisfied with this deal? We get Kotchman, he will be our First baseman of the future. This is sooooo much better than 2 draft picks. I mean really what did yall expect to get for Tex? I wanted Kotchman in the deal if the Angels would trade for him and they put him in the deal. Great trade for both teams.
Yes it would have been nice to get Davis along with a top 10 prospect or something like that but this is just as good. Yes I like Jackson more than Kotchman but not alot more. Kotchmans Defense is sooooo much better than Jackson. I would actually say that if you add defense and offense they are pretty much the same player. This deal is soooo awesome.
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 29, 2008 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
casey kotchman is our first baseman until freddie freeman is ready. and i’m pretty sure canizares could put up the same numbers as him
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude
Freeman is in LOW Single A. KK did awesome in Single A also.
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 29, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
freddie freeman has better numbers than jason heyward, and his peripherals are excellent. plus, he’s a shitload younger than KK
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude
even if Freeman is our next First baseman he is prolly 2 or 3 years away. Kotchman would be there until then and we could trade Kotchman for a good package if he continues to get better. Good trade for us and the Angels.
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 29, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kotchman will fetch MAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE one prospect if we trade him. no one is gonna put together a PACKAGE for casey kotchman
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Honestly I don’t see what the problem with this deal is. We got a major league ready first baseman who we control for 3 more years. Sure we gave up a lot to get Tex last year, but now we have a piece to trade in 3 years when freddie freeman is ready. I think we could have picked up something other than Marek, but I think 3 years of Casey Kotchman is better than the 2 draft picks.
by yondaime4 on Jul 29, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great trade for Angels. Average trade for us.
by dwbrave on Jul 29, 2008 6:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok
I’m out…Going to pick up some beer or liquor or something harder to try and forget the next 2 months until football season.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 29, 2008 6:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just another fun stat.
casey kotchman has an OPS+ of 105
kelly johnson’s is 102
see my problem?
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 6:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
isn’t this what, Kotchmans first full season in the majors? and what is Kelly Johnson OPS relative to OTHER second basemen considering it is one of the weakest Offensive postions onthe field.
by yondaime4 on Jul 29, 2008 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kotchman played in 137 games last year. and those OPS numbers aren’t in respect to the position…they’re in respect to the LEAGUE. kotchman’s numbers at 1B are a tad better than a MIDDLE INFIELDER
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Kotchman beat us on Sunday night baseball. They beat us 2-0. The dude is clutch.
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 29, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
casey kotchman career OPS with RISP: .793
thats uh, not very good
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fire Frank Wren
This guys f’ed Baltimore, they still haven’t recovered and hes going to do it to us now.
Chris
by cmdpsu15 on Jul 29, 2008 7:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
question for yall
Why do yall think that Jackson is soooooo much better at first? He is not a good glove at all, and Kotchman is a gold glove type first baseman. Kotchmans bat is not as good but he makes up for it with the Glove. I think Kotchman and Jackson are very similar to each other if you add the defense and offense together.
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 29, 2008 7:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Because I don’t think that 1B defense is worth a whole heck of a lot. Conor Jackson is an impact bat; Kotchman is not.
by soup du jour on Jul 29, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From BP for those interested...
Jackson: 4.1 WARP
Kotchman: 2.5 WARP
Escobar: 3.6 WARP (just for a reference)
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 29, 2008 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
what did yall think we was gonna get for Tex?
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 29, 2008 7:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
a prospect worth a shit and a 1B that knows how to take a walk and hit a dinger?
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you do realize that
he beat us on Sunday night baseball with a homer right? I guess you did not know that. He is a very clutch player.
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 29, 2008 7:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
clutch hitting is a myth. doodah, doodah
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
casey kotchman RC/9: 4.80
gregor blanco: 4.64
HE CREATES BARELY AS MANY RUNS AS GREGOR BLANCO
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OK OK OK
YOU guys play GM and tell me what yall would think is FAIR? Remember that the D-Backs were not gonna trade Jackson. GM away guys. I wanna hear yall.
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 29, 2008 7:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ned colletti is mentally inept and thinks his horribly overpaid team has a chance. i would try to get andy laroche and someone else for him. because andy laroche is, you know, a stud who would be under our control for FIVE YEARS
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taken
Max Scherzer with a c level position prospect would have fit the bill considering Huddy has probably pitched his last game with the club. There is no way we pick up his option after next season coming back from TJ.
by H0SS on Jul 29, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sort of jumping the gun there...
aren’t you?
by sddbaker on Jul 30, 2008 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
I see the point I was just a little irked with the trade and not getting a pitcher because of fHuddy but he did go see Dr. James Andrews which is not a good thing. And if he has TJ I just don’t see us paying 14 for a pitcher who would not have thrown in a year and a half. That’s all I was trying say there.
by H0SS on Jul 30, 2008 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rocky…please…. you are all over kotchmans nuts and are cleary the only one…wake up we gave away a guy who was traded for 5 top prospects for a guy who would be worth maybe 2 mid level prospects
by bravesguy95 on Jul 29, 2008 7:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nope im not the only Braves fan that likes this deal
And if your soooo smart what would you have gotten? Dude NOBODY was offerin close to this. Some were offerin prospects and thats it. This guy is MLB ready. Get over it dude.
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 29, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the deal as well better than than 2 draft picks.....wish we could have gotten more
but I will take the deal. We were not going to get great offers for just 2 months of Tex.
by frozen rope on Jul 29, 2008 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just read some Tex quotes from David O'Brien
Tex stated that he was open all year to hearing an offer and never got one.
And then said this….
When asked if Braves might get in free-agent bidding for him, he smiled:
"I would probably say no. I thought I’d be here the rest of my career. I really wanted to stay here, but business is business and it’s time for me to move on."
by frozen rope on Jul 29, 2008 7:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sounds like he would have taken below market value if he actually got it offered to him.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm we never offered one?
I guess I was under the assumption that we did. I remember hearing Chipper on the radio say that he was trying to convince Teix to sign an extension. If we didn’t even offer one, then that’s incredibly stupid.
by VictorW on Jul 29, 2008 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats ALL on frank wren. theres NO FUCKING WAY you can say “waaaaah ownership” or “waaaaaaaaah schuerholz”. that shit is ALL on frank wren since he was the one in fucking charge last winter. sign him to a deal, and explain to ownership “his salary will be offset by the shitload of money we have coming off the books”.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the best link
But this link quotes an old Rotoworld article that’s now dead.
This was in January:
“General manager Frank Wren said Thursday that the Braves have “had quite a bit of dialogue” with Mark Teixeira regarding a long-term contract extension.”
that + what I heard Chipper say on the radio is all I have. I’m leaning toward him being offered an extension at some point, but he could very well have heard no offers once the year started.
Maybe they didn’t go after it aggressively enough, but if Teix wanted something similar to what Texas offered him (140 over 8) then I’d say no.
by VictorW on Jul 29, 2008 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wren just said the same thing on the broadcast
Braves made what they considered a generous offer in Spring Training to sign an extension, and Tex & Boras turned it down
by frozen rope on Jul 29, 2008 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep...
Wren said to Chip and Joe that the Braves made an offer to Tex during spring training that was a big offer – Frank even said it would have made Tex one of the highest paid players in the game – and Tex and his representative turned it down.
And that crap about wanting to stay here his whole career? NOW he says that? Why didn’t he say that all year long, make the fans at least think he wanted to stay?
I’ll miss his glove and bat, but I won’t miss the dude.
by secondbass on Jul 29, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh hell…I don’t like the sounds of that.
by VegasAces on Jul 29, 2008 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a risk
This situation is similiar to buying a car new and trying to sell it a year later. It was risk, we wanted back to back Octobers, didnt happen so lets move on.
Time to rebuild
by cashew on Jul 29, 2008 7:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hard to move on when we just took 2 giant steps back
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As funny as this sounds, I’m not giving up hope for this year.
Time to rebuild
by cashew on Jul 29, 2008 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that was the best offer
I’d gladly take Tex for the rest of the year then this trash.
Chris
by cmdpsu15 on Jul 29, 2008 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love it, Norton hittin cleanup tonight!
Time to rebuild
by cashew on Jul 29, 2008 7:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yall
really think that 2 draft picks are better than a Major league First baseman now?
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 29, 2008 7:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
casey kotchman is a below average major league first baseman. so yes, i’d prefer the 2 draft picks
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
17th in 2008 and 14th in 2007 in MLVr (which measures how valuable a hitter’s total production is worth to the lineup) out of major league first baseman plus he’s 5th best in RZR and was 4th last season. Slightly below average bat, well above average glove, that’s average and there’s mild pre-peak upside.
by 17843 on Jul 29, 2008 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gee....
you folks need to calm down a little. Take a deep breath. It will be okay. Life goes on, and so does baseball. Try to enjoy both.
by sddbaker on Jul 29, 2008 7:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and i thought i was the only optimistic one here.
Time to rebuild
by cashew on Jul 29, 2008 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok i’ve been creepin on here and decided to join the discussion lol.
i really don’t know what in the hell everyone was expecting Frank Wren to do. I mean, he’s not Jesus. i think it’s great we got Kotchman…just about every post i’ve read about on any Angels board is that even though they are pumped for Tex (and winning the World Series this year), Kotchman is going to be missed because he was a great teammate and clutch. Hell i would rather have Kotchman than Francoeur the fuckin diva. i know this is probably going to sound retarded, but team chemistry is a HUGE thing. Kotchman can hit, play D, and is a good teammate. He can learn patience. What more do y’all want
yes i realize this leaves us w/ zilch power and that does suck ass. But i don’t know what y’all were expecting. there really was nothing out there for Tex, and Kotchman beats the 2 draft picks any day of the week, especially because it’s going to be a weak draft. Kotchman will last us until Freeman and that’s all we need. this year is over, possibly next year too. let’s all be realistic here.
also: Kotchman is cheap as hell. this is gonna free up some money to possibly sign a great pitcher. So, even if we could have signed Tex, there is probably no chance we could afford to sign a big pitcher too. pick your poison
by smoltziemyhero on Jul 29, 2008 7:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
gut reaction
If the decision was between Kotchman and Tracy, then I’m glad Kotchman was the decision. The caveat is that the D-Backs weren’t going to trade Parker, Scherzer, or Owings as well. Wren still had two days, though…it seems pointless to trade Tex now instead of July 31, especially with Holliday off the board. As for Marek, why not go with someone more projectable (i.e., a Neftali or Andrus-type player, someone who’s far away and high risk-high reward?). It sure doesn’t sound like Marek is the next great closer…and if you’re not getting a starter or potential closer, there’s no point getting a TINSTAAPP at all.
But hell, I think I might’ve taken the two draft picks as well.
by jc25 on Jul 29, 2008 7:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
CASEY KOTCHMAN RANKS AMONG 27 MLB FIRST BASEMAN
OBP: 23rd
SLG: 19th
OPS: 21st
RC/27: 23rd
ISO: 22nd
BB%: 27th
LD%: 26th
still think he’s an above average 1B?
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i think w/ the options we have, Wren made the best choice he could.
And i also think the reason he didn’t wait until July 31 is because he is looking to make some more deals. I might eat my shit for saying that cause he might not do anything else before the deadline, but that’s just my opinion on it.
Also: who were y’all planning to put at first next year? Wren just said they made an aggressive offer that would’ve made Tex one of the highest paid players in the game, so what about that hole? Who would’ve went there? The Mighty Thorman?
by smoltziemyhero on Jul 29, 2008 7:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thorman for half a season, then sign adam dunn.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m sorry but i don’t think most of us can handle the Mighty Thor for a month much less half a season ha ha. Adam Dunn would be nice though…it would be great if we got him before the deadline
"The waiting is the hardest part" ~ Tom Petty
by smoltziemyhero on Jul 29, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t he a FA this coming offseason? I would not mind throwing some money at him.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 29, 2008 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah he is. i say we should go ahead and get him though…i’d go to the ballpark to watch him hit so i know lots of other people would
"The waiting is the hardest part" ~ Tom Petty
by smoltziemyhero on Jul 29, 2008 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
umm..
am i the only person that hates adam dunn? He is a career <.250 hitter…plus, he looks like one of those sluggers that gets way overpaid and then sucks for the duration of a 10 year contract, a-la-adrian beltre…
by Doghnut on Jul 30, 2008 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is by any measure one of the 30 best hitters in baseball and has a better OBP and SLG than guys like Carlos Lee, Josh Hamilton, Hanley Ramirez, and Grady Sizemore. His defense is miserable and he doesn’t figure to age well at all, but he’ll be 29 next season. With the general disdain for him out there, if I were Frank Wren I’d offer him big money for a short term – something like $57 million for three years – and let him anchor the middle of the lineup. We’d need a rangy center fielder, but Schafer and Gorkys could fill that role in 2010.
by 17843 on Jul 30, 2008 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo. People need to understand that BA is a weak measure of a player’s worth.
Dunn’s OPS per season:
2008: .931, 8th of MLB OFers
2007: .940, 4th of MLB OFers
2006: .855, 21st of MLB OFers
2005: .927, 5th of MLB OFers
2004: .956, 7th of MLB OFers
The best part is that, like mentioned directly above me, many GMs don’t like the guy. Hence, he probably wouldn’t cost us a whole lot. I guess the problem with Dunn is that it adds yet another LH hitter to a heavy LH hitting lineup…and we already seem to have enough problems against lefties.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 30, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The second player going to Atlanta, Double-A right-hander Stephen Marek, has a live arm attached to a bad body. Given an $800,000 bonus as a draft-and-follow signing, Marek works with a low-90s fastball, a curveball that flashes plus with good bite, and an average changeup that he doesn’t use as often now that he’s working as a reliever. His delivery isn’t smooth and his command is below average, especially with the breaking ball.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on Jul 29, 2008 7:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah i don’t think most of us are that thrilled w/ Marek. He was ranked #6 by Baseball America in the Angels’s top 10 going into this season though, so that can’t be too terrible, right? let’s hope anyways lol
"The waiting is the hardest part" ~ Tom Petty
by smoltziemyhero on Jul 29, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
idk...
I was all for trading tex, but for a career .274 hitter and a pitcher who had a 4.30 era in A-ball last year? I know those arent the most important stats and I know Connor Jackson wasnt available, but I have got to believe there was something better available…
by Doghnut on Jul 29, 2008 8:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I haven’t seen much of Kotchman but I’m pretty sure the Braves chances of winning next year just went down a notch. They have to change the whole approach to the offense now. More of a small ball approach. Speed, defense, and of course pitching. I think they also need to rebuild the starting pitching (and reduce salaries at the same time). Guys like Smoltz, Hampton, and perhaps Glavine can’t be counted on too much any more. Even Hudson may be overvalued if his arm injury is anything significant. And Chipper will be a year older. We may be watching the end of an era here.
by Big_Popup on Jul 29, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve come around on this one from initially being pissed to then being kind of on the fence to now liking it. It was obvious Teixeira needed to be traded if we could get a package better than the two draft picks we’d get as compensation. The market was never as strong as many of us thought – there was no Parker or Jackson or Hughes out there. What was available was four plus seasons of Kotchman at below market rates and a AA relief prospect.
If anything, we know what we’re getting with Kotchman – at worst a first baseman with an above average glove and something like a 290/340/450. That’s honestly pretty bad, but it’s better than anything else we could’ve trotted out there in 2009 and he’ll have value for the next several years until our system produces something better. A draft pick would’ve entered the system a full ten months after Kotchman and would be ML ready sometime around 2012. Kotchman on the other hand is probably a 4-6 win player for us over the next four years.
Marek isn’t as bad as some think. Sure, he might be a reliever, but a reliever with good ground ball skills and he misses bats. Not hard to see him pitching 7th innings for us by next summer. He’s a 2-3 win player if he reaches the majors and we control him for the full six years.
Compare what we got to what we’re giving up – two months of maybe 3 win production from Teixeira and two draft picks. Keeping that does nothing for our chances of contending in 2010, making this move does.
by 17843 on Jul 29, 2008 10:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
huh...
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 29, 2008 10:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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