Teixeira Trade Boiling Down to Angels and Diamondbacks
by gondeee on Jul 29, 2008 1:30 PM EDT
in Braves Trade News
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PrintThose have been the two most active clubs in pursuing Mark Teixeira the past couple of weeks. This is the latest from Ken Rosenthal:
Not only do the Angels want Teixeira, but they also would be interested in an expanded deal that would include one of the Braves' left-handed relievers, Will Ohman or Mike Gonzalez, according to major-league sources.
The Angels would not include either right-hander Ervin Santana or left-hander Joe Saunders in a Teixeira package, sources say. But they would be willing to make the move if the price was first baseman Casey Kotchman and outfielder Juan Rivera plus a third piece, most likely a prospect.
The Braves' preference in any Teixeira trade is a first baseman whom they could keep beyond this season. However, they are expected to consider all types of players, including young prospects with high upsides.
The Diamondbacks, sources say, will not part with first baseman Conor Jackson for Teixeira, who is a free agent at the end of the season. But they would be open to moving Chad Tracy, who is signed for $4.75 million next season with a $7 million option for 2010.
The Diamondbacks would not trade either of their top pitching prospects, right-hander Max Scherzer or right-hander Jarrod Parker. But lesser pitchers such as righty Billy Buckner as well as center fielder Gerardo Parra and infielder Jamie D'Antona are among the prospects who could be in play.
Rosenthal lists the Dodgers, Rays, Red Sox and Yankees as other possible, but less likely destinations for Teixeira.
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Oh Hell No
No Mike Gonzalez…absolutely not. And if the DBacks aren’t going to part with Scherzer or Parker, they can stick it. The Angels look to be the way to go, it seems. But if they insist on Gonzalez, my first reaction is they can stick it too.
That being said, if they want to include more/better prospects, I’d be willing to listen…I’m talking about changing their mind on Saunders/Santana, specifically.
No Gonzalez
I don’t care what anyone else thinks, no Mike Gonzalez. I said it before, and I stand firm on my statement – closers do not grow on trees. Dan Kolb(b), Chris Reitsma, Kyle Farnsworth, and to some extent, Bob Wickman. We don’t need that kind of heartburn anymore if we can help it.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Frank Wren Says (I hope)
“The Angels know they are going to lose K-Rod, so they’re trying to make a move to replace him now. Admirable, but not on my watch!”
I’m not sure why Juan Rivera would interest the Braves. And if the DBacks don’t want to give up Parker or Scherzer then there is no deal…
Other than ‘04 and ‘06, Rivera’s highest OBP in a season is .316
And while his SLG is normally pretty nice (aside from .417 this season) I’m not sure if I can look past that OBP…
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 29, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't prove my point with stats
obviously, but I will say that 04 and 06 were the only two years where he received consistent playing time and wasn’t hampered by injuries.
I guess I can see where someone might be turned off by him due to his career stats, but I have followed his career since he was a Yank (which doesn’t make me an authoritity by any means) and I’ve always liked his game.
Trust me...
...I see those two years and it’s hard to argue…pretty impressive. But what I don’t like is that right smack dab in the middle of them is 350+ PAs of .316 OBP…and that is painfully bad.
I just feel like plate discipline shouldn’t be something that is effected by injuries and reduced playing time.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 29, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm
Teixeira and Ohman / for / Kotchman, Rivera and Jordan Walden
I’d do that. I’ve said before Rivera replaces anyone/everyone in our current outfield. Too bad Scioscia was too stuck on playing big contracts to give him playing time.
Only problem is, Rivera probably walks after the season, so we’re right back to where we started in the OF. The deal then becomes Tex and Ohman for Kotchman and Walden, and that’s not enough IMO.
Rivera is not FA eligible until 2010
I believe. Don’t MLB teams control the first 6 years of players service time?
hmmm
I read somewhere he’s a FA. Have to check that out. If he’s not, I take back my previous statement.
Ummm...
Way to overreact, guys, but please read the quote more carefully this time: “they also would be interested in an expanded deal that would include one of the Braves’ left-handed relievers, Will Ohman or Mike Gonzalez”. They’re interested in Gonzo like we’re interested in Parker, Scherzer, Jackson, Walden, etc.; in other words, they’d love to, but it’s not going to happen.
Right now we’re talking about Tracy and Owings from Arizona or Kotchman and Rivera from “L.A.” for Tex… I’m just glad I had realistic expectations, otherwise I’d be as underwhelmed as many of you seem to be!
P.S.: It didn’t boil down to those two teams, they were always the only two that might be interested (I overrated Kotchman in the eyes of the Angels, so I actually didn’t even think they’d be in it). Where’s this supposedly strong market that nets us 3/4 solid prospects for Tex?
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By The Way...
Tracy and Owings for Tex is barely acceptable, while Rivera and Kotchman is not.
Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!
actually
I like Rivera and Kotchman more. I like Kotchman TEN times more than Tracy. And I have no use for Owings. He is decent at BEST. Neither are great packages though but I would take the Angels deal ahead of the D-Backs deal. Heck I might be wantin to trade Tex straight up for Hellickson at this point if nobody offers more. At least Hellickson is better than those packages.
braves#1
Hellickson.
Just like your Wade Davis pipedream, he too has been deemed untouchable and rightly so. I know you don’t care, but it’s worth mentioning.
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Kotchman v. Tracy.
I understand that Chad has been protected by platoons and that Casey’s defense is gold glove caliber, but they’ve both been just barely above average at the plate over their careers. Neither makes us contenders and I wonder why we’re so focused on a 1B in the return of Tex. Platoon Ka’aihue and Thorman there next season, if need be, but get the best talent you can for Tex!
Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!
Give us your insight
Not trying to start a war, I am genuinely interested in why you think Tracy/Owings is a better offer than Kotchman/Rivera? Who knows, maybe i’m overlooking something – wouldn’t be the first time. Let’s forget for the time being that Teixeira (and maybe more) is even involved.
Here’s my take:
I agree with you about Tracy and his having been protected with Platoons. The thing I disagree on is Kotchman. His peripherals tell me he is a much better hitter than his stats have shown. I think his power is equal to that of Tracy (but that’s an opinion not backed by stats) and his defense gives him the edge (albeit slight). Owings, at least to me, has never proven anyything. He had some decent numbers against righties last year but I feel like that was an aberration. His career numbers point to a solid #4/5 starter except he’s gotten a ton of press because he can hit. Rivera on the other hand can mash when he’s given the chance. Granted there is no recurring proof of this stats wise except if you discount the years he’s been injured or otherwise not received consistent playing time.
So what is your take, where am I off?
My Take.
I’m concerned about his tendency to get hurt and his inability to couple a solid OBP with a solid SLG outside of 2006. Have we even verified whether or not he’ll be a free agent this offseason? Either way, he’ll be 30 next season and after two years of scuffling off the bench, I’m not sure he’ll be all that useful.
Owings, on the other hand, will be a 26 year-old starter cheaply under team control for some time to come. He’s struggled some, but he’s shown flashes of good play in his brief ML career. He also has a .313 /.350/.545 career line in 112 AB to boot, which compares very favorably to what Rivera has done in the 150+ AB over the last two seasons. I see him as a solid #4, give or take a full slot. Nowadays, that doesn’t come cheaply or easily.
Kotchman has had 1,100+ AB to prove something and he’s not showing power. Tracy has the benefit of platoon splits, but he has demonstrated legit power. Chad’s v. LHP this year looks like Kotchman’s career line and he’s entering the point in his career most likely to be his peak. I just think the difference between the two isn’t as large as their reps might lead one to believe.
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Don’t worry…Yankees fans are saying that we’ll get Betemit back in their package deal for Tex.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 29, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure they’d love to…I don’t feel like I was overreacting, sorry if you saw it that way. Just trying to get my point across.
Gonzo.
I want to keep him as much as anyone else, we just don’t need to get bent out of shape about him being traded because they’ve already said that he’s staying. If he gets dealt, we’d have to be blown away and I doubt that happens.
Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!
I guess that was the point (if we get blown away) that I was trying to make in my post. He’s way too important to our future squad(s), like royhobbs was saying.
I’m still relatively new to this whole blogosphere thing, so I’m still trying to figure out how to get my points across properly. Obviously my first attempt is what we’d all deem a “fail”.
Nah.
I’m no authority in blog etiquette (or baseball, either, so don’t let my defiant tone fool you) but I can say you didn’t do anything wrong with your post. I was speaking more to the fact that just moments after this post, multiple comments were made that feared Gonzo being traded when we know that it won’t happen unless we’re fleecing someone in return (i.e. getting a closer-in-waiting and very, very solid change).
Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!
Point taken
Thanks. Last time I was a member of a message board, things got out of hand quick, and I just don’t want to contribute to something like that.
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