2008 Off Season !
by Holty on Jul 2, 2008 11:13 PM EDT
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PrintHey Braves Fans,
It is never to early to think about the future and since the Bravos are going nowhere fast and they are a sinking ship that needs to dump all unecessary cargo and move forward before the season is out it is never to early to look at the off-season.
BUSTS :
FRANCOEUR - I still believe he will turn it around but to this point he has to be on this list and he doesn't deserve a Brian MCcann type contract (6 year-$26million)
Kotsay - Gave up Devine (garbage) and another pitcher for him and we are not paying 3/4 of his salary so really he isn't that bad but still not that good either and he will not be back period.
Soriano - Elbow comes calling again and after signing two year/9 million deal bad luck an omen this year or what ???
Moylan - Really a shame but hey typical Braves with their bullpen not willing to spend top dollar on relief pitching comes to call again and when they do spend top dollar it is for injury-prone projects that often don't play out.
Hampton - Burned for the third year in a row the Braves deserve every single dollar they have had to waste on Hampton, he has screw them for three seasons and all three they missed the playoffs including this year thank god he will not be back and he is looking at retirement the last time I checked & why not he has $120 million plus in the bank.
Glavine & Smoltz - I mean my God what next Maddux ??? YOU CANNOT NOT GO HOME AGAIN AND IT IS TIME BOBBY COX learned that fact and I think we all new this and if you didn't and you thought these guys we going to come in and win 10-15 a piece you were really living a pipe dream. Neither should be back and I am including Smoltz in the group.
LEFT FIELD :
Ever since Ryan Klesko trade we have not had a every day left-fielder, Matt Diaz is a backup and or pinch hitter off the bench against left-handed pitching only. Blanco is good with a ton of speed and upside but I am still not convienced he is not another one year flash in the pan like Charles Thomas was a few years ago. Can we please get a starting left fielder in the off season of at the trade dealine when we deal Tex. PLEASE !!!
Boyer/Acosta :
Speaking of time to go, Boyer and Acosta should be DFA's in that order due to incosistency and lack of stuff on the big league level. Acosta could be saved a trade bait or a throw in on a bigger deal with Tex.
Positives
Gregor Blanco :
Amazing speed and heart but still waiting to see if he is not another flash in the pan such as Charles Thomas
Greg Norton:
Great move for a older bench / backup guy who can hit for some pop and give leadership plus play LF/1B
Will Ohman/Infante :
Great Trade b/c Ohnman has looked good in several games and Infante has proved to be very vauable.
Bennett/Carlyle/Campillo :
Guys that have come up through other systems and finally got their chances and made the most of them. I doubt Campillo with be back but Bennett and Carlyle may very well be.
Let me know if you agree or disagree about the above but one thing is true another typical Braves season of what could have been !!!!
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Naturally !!
Of course he is he sucked with use and is doing great in Oakland no surprise he will probably end up being one of the most dominant closers soooner than later.
A few things...
We’re 6 games out of first before the All-Star break. I think there is still time before we’re mathematically eliminated. If you want to break down our season, my advice is wait until its over instead of half-way over.
I don’t mind that you want to breakdown various break-outs and busts. That’s not my problem. Its that you are talking like its October 5th. Its July 3rd.
Also, you have the benefit of hindsight, something Frank Wren and Bobby Cox don’t have when they make decisions in real-time. Everyone expected Hampton to play. No one expected Moylan to get hurt, and he was one of the best relievers in the game last year. Everyone expected Soriano to be our closer, and nobody thought he’d get the plague. Who could predict Francoeur would have a slump? That’s my problem, is your seem a bit self-righteous like “I told you so” when there is no way anybody could know these things back in March.
Glavine & Smoltz – I mean my God what next Maddux ??? YOU CANNOT NOT GO HOME AGAIN AND IT IS TIME BOBBY COX learned that fact and I think we all new this and if you didn’t and you thought these guys we going to come in and win 10-15 a piece you were really living a pipe dream. Neither should be back and I am including Smoltz in the group.
I don’t understand this. I mean, what are you talking about? Who was the next Maddux? Who “cannot not” go home and what does that mean? Also, its real easy to predict things in hindsight. If Smoltz had not had his shoulder problems, I would have bet on him winning at least 14 games, much like he did the past 3 seasons. Even with a torn labrum he showed he had good velocity and movement. He had a K/BB ratio of 4.5, which ain’t bad (I know, small sample size). We all knew Glavine is on the downslope of his career, but without the injuries he still would have won over 10 games (and may still yet, if he can get healthy). If you knew this, why didn’t you post it before it happened? You should have enlightened us all, especially Smoltz and Glavine.
Sorry to say, but you get it too.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
unless that was directed at my, which i hope it wasnt …my comment was sarcasm ( i gotta stop using sarcasm online it doesnt translate well)... but u already gave the baby crying picture to the author of this thread, he is 2 for 2 on crying babies vs. posts… the kid has to come down to earth soemtime right he cant keep hitting like this all year, with the crying with every post he makes, right?
"The game doesn't stink Mr. Wheeler. It's a GREAT GAME."
no
I understood your sarcasm ; )
You’re right, but I don’t think he’ll stick around long enough to get back to earth.
1.000 for crying babies (SMALL SAMPLE SIZE, I know!)
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
we have so much fucking money coming off the books, i DEMAND that a fucking awesome free agent OF gets signed. you know what would never happen in a million years but make me do BACKFLIPS? manny ramirez. i don’t care if he’s like 35. dude can rake.
No Manny. We have 1 Manny too many as it is.
I am pretty confident in bringing up one of the OFs we have and grooming them. Surely some of these guys will be ready to make an impact next year out of Jones, Gorkys, Blanco, Schafer and who else? I think our money should be spent on re-signing Tex or a replacement, getting another consistent SP and maintaining our bullpen.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
That's just me and I'm a horrible GM...
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
i agree and disagree i guess, Jones is a AAAA player or a 4th outfielder, i agree. I think Manny can help us, hell we can teach him 1st base, there ya go we found our Tex replacement. I think the trouble with signing Tex is the long term deal, i think we can get around that with Manny, this is all conjecture of course. But you’re right one of our young OFs should be ready to produce next year, but none of them are likely to give us the power Id like to see from the OF. Id like to address the rotation obviously and bolstering the bullpen (which team doesn’t want to) and acquiring a power bat, whether it be an OF or a 1B, or Micah Owings he would take care of two of the needs, pitching and power bat. Im a problem solver.
"The game doesn't stink Mr. Wheeler. It's a GREAT GAME."
i really don’t think schaefer is gonna be ready for next year. unless they bring him up to richmond like, NOW, he’s still gonna need that extra 2 months to a year there. they do NOT wanna fuck this kid up like they did francoeur. andruw jones wasn’t thrust into a starting job when he was brought up in 96, and he turned out alright (until last year). i’m still just flabbergasted as to why you’re bringing up these kids and throwing them into starter’s roles right away. that goes for the pitchers too. i know our clubhouse is like a MASH unit, but charlie should not have been thrown into the fire like he has. i’m sure someone like a matt desalvo, who we KNOW doesn’t have a future with us, could plug the hole in the rotation just as well. i’m absolutely horrified that if someone else goes down, hanson is gonna get the call and he’s gonna get stunted too.
We brought up Jo-Jo last year and he is doing quite well this year after taking his lumps last year tho record doesn’t indicate it but these guys gotta get some time in the bigs and get used to it. They have to find out what they have. I mean Charlie has been in the minors forever I like bringing him up and Schaefer eh doesn’t matter as long as they sent Frenchy down to work on stuff for a few weeks
no thats what we are saying they do not need to bring these guys up, they need to let them develop. They brought Thorman up to early last year and it looks like he’ll never play in the majors again. the same is true for Brandon Jones, He needed more work in the minors last year i think, and they brought he up and he struggled mightily. The avg for a pitcher to spend in the minors in 4-5 years, there is so much stuff they need to work on. Most guys sign with only 2 or 3 pitches. and usually only one of them is developed well enough, because in lower levels (high school and in some cases college) all they need is one pitch to succeed. However int e majors they need mutliple pitches, and they need perfect location. I would much rather have a guy in the minors too long and make sure he is ready, then bring him up early to see what he can do. rarely does it work out well.
"The game doesn't stink Mr. Wheeler. It's a GREAT GAME."
i completely agree, but i still think Schafer will be ready next year maybe not in terms of a full time starter at the beginning of the year, but certainly by the end of next year. he’s the only one tho, Unless Goryks gets moved up to AA soon, which should happen. then spends time in AAA next year
"The game doesn't stink Mr. Wheeler. It's a GREAT GAME."
that was meant as a reply to BIGJOE
and so is this i think moving Morton up was OK, he had proven to be able to pitch effectively in the minors and was ready to come up, he is gonna take his bumps and bruises but thats gonna happen no matter what. But i wish more people would have the forward thinking that you have, we have people saying that Frenchy needs to be traded and we need to have Goryks and Schafer and Heyward play this year, which makes about as much sense as starting me at SS, although I am pretty good and am again disappointed i didn’t get drafted (again) despite posted solid rec softball league nbrs.
There’s no sense bringing htese kids up no matter how good they are playing in A ball, they need to time to move up, a very few select special athletes can make the jump from A ball or AA to the Major league level, Griffey and Bonds come to mind (but even Bonds spent time in AAA, although combined he barely had a year of minor league experience). These are two of the best hitters our generation has ever seen (steroids use aside). Guys like this don’t come around often, so theres no reason to think our guys can make this jump.
Finally, i have to say, ultimately i dont know if our young guys will be ready, i think they will, but I dont see them play everyday, I’m not a suitable scout of a player’s ability to project well to the major leagues.
"The game doesn't stink Mr. Wheeler. It's a GREAT GAME."
How can anyone say that Boyer and Acosta don’t have major league stuff, both these guys have major league stuff, i don’t think anyone on this board would debate that. they both throw mid to upper 90s and have good secondary ptiches. they both share the same problem, they seem to have control problems and head problems. which realistically can be fixed, at least its easier to fix than it is to teach someone how to have major league pitches.
"The game doesn't stink Mr. Wheeler. It's a GREAT GAME."
Boyer and Acosta
Are both rookies. We should keep that in mind, as we are cursing their existence. They are having to fill in for starters not being able to go 6+, Moylan and Soriano. They are pretty much just trying to not get rocked. On a more positive note, if they get better after this season, they should be pretty dang good next year and the following year—whether its in the ATL or not.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
by jug on Jul 3, 2008 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
this is what i’ve been trying to say all year, that we need to relax on these guys because they both hav bright futures, tis regrettable they have to learn on the fly and pitch so much. Nothing helps a guy learn than experience, which both of these guys are definately getting, and they have great arms (assuming with the amount they are pitching they dont get blown out)
Our pen was supposed to have Moylan as our setup guy and Soriano as our closer, which means we were only expecting to have to use the rest of the pen for the 6th and 7th innings, and occasionally the 5th if the starter is in trouble. which means we projected splittting 2 innings between 6 or 7 guys.
this season has definately not gone as planned and Bobby is doing the best with what he has.
"The game doesn't stink Mr. Wheeler. It's a GREAT GAME."
Here's what kills me:
Like jug said, I don’t mind the player-by-player breakdown of who is doing well at the moment and who isn’t. But for the love of everything holy, put some logic into it! Acosta, he needs to go, fine. I think most will agree with that. But he has options left – no team is going to DFA a player who shows even a miniscule amount of promise when they can simply send that player to the minors.
I think someone else mentioned this part already, but it bears repeating: lack of stuff??? How can you even justify that statement? Have you seen either of them pitch, or are you just going by box scores and game recaps?
First time in TC history
A 2 CB post. This guy is like Jay Bruce.
Sorry, but it couldn’t be avoided.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Just being Honest
Don’t shoot the messenger here, I am being honest I have seen the Braves Championship teams having been a fan for over 20 years but guys they are not a playoff team, sorry. It is okay alot of teams in the NL suck this year and the Phillies aren’t going to win the big dance either. So you know what you go back to the drawing board in the off-season with alot of money to spend finally and hey get some better talent.
P.S. The high-caliber free agents don’t alway equal success Mike Hampton anyone !
I respect your honesty, but I’m afraid you came at a bad time. Several of us have been discussing the influx of these kinds of posts, only following the mounting losses. Your posts are well-written, well-formatted, and you speak clearly enough, but your subject matter is something that no fans really want to read/see, no matter how truthful they are. Most of us already know it, and we don’t like to be reminded.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
First off to say Smoltz shouldn’t come back is asinine. The man has repeatedly come back from injuries successfully. If he regains his health then I absolutely want him back even if it’s as a closer in combination with Gonzales which would be terrific. As far as I’m concerned John Smoltz on this team in any capacity is a major plus. Second I would hardly call Kotsay a bust. When healthy he’s been outstanding- more than I was expecting. As to Jordan Schafer I’d be shocked if he’s not up some time this year.
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