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MLBTR: Teixeira for Youk and Hansen

So I know some people hate all of this trade speculation because that's all it is: speculation.  No one really knows what Wren is going to do in the next few weeks, but we can all hope that he makes some decisions that are good for the future of this club.

Anyways, I'm posting this because is saw it on MLBTradeRumors (not because I made it up), and I feel like the site is relatively reputable.  Apparently Peter Gammons reported that the Braves offered Teixeira for Youkilis and Craig Hansen and the Sox declined.  I don't know where he got this info, but I feel like Gammons (one of the only people I respect on ESPN) wouldn't just make stuff up. I personally think it would be amazing to get a package like that, because we could get some value for him. Youk is an on base machine (the Greek God of Walks) and I feel the team could still compete THIS YEAR with this trade.

1.  Does anyone know if this is legit?  Heard anything about this from other sources?

2.  How would you feel about this trade?   Would we be better off taking the two picks and maybe trying to convince Teixeira and his asshole agent to take a discount to stay with us?

0 recs  |  Comment 22 comments

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I would LOVE this trade

But Theo Epstein ain’t that stupid.

It’s probably true; there’s no downside to the Braves offering this kind of trade to any of the contending teams. It’s also probably true that the Sox shot it down before Wren finished his sentence.

by jc25 on Jul 14, 2008 11:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I like it

If it’s true, it offers a clue into the buyers/sellers debate. It may turn out that we are neither, but just looking to be better overall, for both now and the future. We might be selling Tex, but it would be hard to say we are “sellers” when we would pick up Youk.

by skipcaray on Jul 14, 2008 11:29 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think...

Theo is that dumb. Youk isn’t as talented as Tex, but that is giving up far too much for 2 months of any player. Youkilis is under the Red Sox control through the 2010 season.

by NEBravesFan33 on Jul 14, 2008 11:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

See above.

While I would love the trade, Youk is so popular in Boston that there would be a mutiny. But it would be awesome to get him, he could play 3rd and 1st so whenever Chipper is ready to move to 1st we could let him (of course, it would be Chipper’s choice).

by Something Profound on Jul 14, 2008 11:34 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I watch alot of Red Sox baseball...

...since my roomate is a fan, and I must say that I’m not impressed with Craig Hansen. He had a nice ERA in the minors and surprisingly enough surrendered only 2 HRs in like 127 career IP, but in that time he had like 110 hits and 60 walks (to go along with around 115 Ks). That’s too many baserunners IMO…he must have induced alot of GIDPs. His major league numbers look terrible because not only is he letting guys get on base alot (.367 OBP against him in 67.1 IP, 77 H and 34 BB), but he’s giving up the longball as well (8 HR).

With that being said, I love Youk and I was not aware how much longer he is under control but someone mentioned it above. Just getting 2 years of Youk for 2 months of Tex should be considered a win.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 14, 2008 11:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just remember

Nomar was a Pujols in Boston, even with the injuries, but Theo shipped him off for Cabrera and Mienkeiwicz (sp?). Both helped Boston get the 2004 crown, and then both bolted in FA. I agree with the fact that Youk is popular in Boston, but as stated above, Theo isn’t dumb. If Theo feels that Teixiera is indeed needed, don’t think he will hesitate to trade Youk, just because he is popular.

The people of Boston love their Red Sox winning over any individual player, and they’ll easily get over Youk being traded for Teix, even if he bolts in FA after the season, if another World Series victory is delivered. They’ll console Youk by giving him a standing-O the next time he steps into Fenway Park, and call it even.

Rumors are just rumors until the deadline passes, but none of you will see me crying if we lose Teix and we get Youk for two years.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jul 14, 2008 11:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you think that the ATL fans would steal the “YOUK” chant?

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 14, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a heartbeat

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jul 14, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be more than happy

If we received Youk back, but we won’t. It is still very suprising to see the Angels not want to go for the kill and trade Kotchman and prospects for Tex. It sounds like they just don’t want to make any trades. It seems to me that there won’t be that many teams looking for Tex come the deadline.

by NEBravesFan33 on Jul 14, 2008 12:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Here We Go Again...

I trust Gammons – especially when it comes to the Red Sox because I believe he came up covering them for a Boston newspaper – so I imagine this is legit. But there’s a reason why Theo shot it down and we shouldn’t get excited: Youk, all things considered, is more valuable than Tex! I don’t think that the BoSox would make that deal straight up, let alone include another prospect. The Same goes for these LA deals that have the Dodgers and Angels giving up many years of service from highly regarded, young players (Loney and Kotchman) for a couple of months of Tex.

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on Jul 14, 2008 1:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

respectfully disagree

I think there’s a huge difference between the Sox acquiring Tex and the Dodgers or Angels acquiring Tex. Here’s why:

First, Kevin Youkilis is a much better player than either Kotchman or Loney right now. Youk is currently hitting .314/.381/.552, which happens to be much better than Teixeira’s current line of .271/.373/.484. Regress that to each’s career line, and Tex is hitting a little worse than his career, while Youk is obviously having the best season of his career. But while it’s certainly probably that Youk isn’t this good, it’s also probable that he’s better than his career line of .286/.383/.457. What’s important is that for the remainder of this year, Tex isn’t guaranteed to be definitively much better than Youk will be. Meanwhile, Kotchman is currently hitting .282/.325/.427 and Loney .291/.351/.446 (Kotchman is more or less at his career average, while Loney is underperforming a little). It’s important to note that both are appreciably younger than Tex and Youk, and are more or less in their first full starting season. Again though, what’s important from the first point is that for this season, Youk > Kotchman or Loney.

Second, a Boston Red Sox lineup with Youk is already f’ing fantastic. The three headed monster of JD Drew, Youk and Manny have VORPs of 32.9, 31.7 and 31.5, respectively. And that’s not even counting the contributions of David Ortiz. Loney, meanwhile, ranks third (not counting potential out-for-year Furcal) on his team in VORP at 15.4. Currently, the only true threat in the Dodger lineup is Russ Martin, only he and Ethier are in double digit HRs. Similarly, Kotchman represents the Angels’ 4th best player with a 10.8 VORP, and they only have 3 players id double digit HRs (Vlad, Hunter, Napoli). The Red Sox, meanwhile, have 5. The bottom line is that the lineup the Sox constructed is a championship-winning one (obviously proven, as they won last year). The Dodgers lineups and Angels lineups are not. The Sox have a considerable power punch in their lineup; the Dodgers and Angels do not. It’s possible that Loney and Kotchman will turn out to be great sluggers soon, but both the Dodgers and Angels have the potential to get to the WS this year. A strong middle of the order bat like Tex puts them much, much closer.

Third, the management philosophy of the three teams are completely different. The Sox have been willing to do creative things to improve the team (Moneyball management, if you will), and aren’t afraid to shake things up if they know it to be necessary. In that sense, they’re “ahead of the game.” That’s why they’re not in a position where they need to trade for a bat like Tex. The Angels and Dodgers, meanwhile, have been willing to overspend in free agency but unwilling to trade their prospects for a top-notch slugger. And it’s hurt them. In the Angels case, some of them never quite panned out (McPherson, Mathis, Kotchman to an extent), while in the Dodgers case, their shift in management philosophy from DePodesta to Coletti meant that their young stars were ready to play but management was unwilling to give them the opportunity (the yoyoing of Matt Kemp being the strongest example). Both teams seemingly have the pieces in place but still need the “next” or “final” piece to get to the WS. Again, Tex could be that needed piece for them. The Sox aren’t in the same position.

The final question is whether a Tex for Kotchman/Loney (with either first baseman as the primary piece) trade would be beneficial to the Braves. I think it’s clear that Tex would help either team. I’d be more than happy to take Loney back. First of all, he’s a year younger than Kotchman and is already a better player. I would be more hesitant to take Kotchman on, as I simply don’t think he’s that good.

by jc25 on Jul 14, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bravo.

Well put. It’s interesting to guess where the three young first baseman will head in the future. Let’s take a look at their career minor league numbers:

Kotchman, 25, 1241 ABs, 403 H, 139 XBH, 153/131 BB/K, .325/.401/.493
Youkilis, 29, 1398 ABs, 419 H, 134 XBH, 324/211 BB/K, .300/.433/.442
Loney, 24, 2203 ABs, 653 H, 210 XBH, 232/352 BB/K, .296/.362/.430

I always forget that Youkilis came up late and that he is almost 30. If we were to get him in a deal we’d be getting a guy who should traditionally already have hit his peak. However, he’s already almost matched his season high HR mark in 200 less ABs so it’s difficult to say which one is the true Youkilis without a larger body of work. His minor league numbers indicate that he does not have tremendous power, but his .552 SLG this season says otherwise. Both Kotchman and Youkilis match up well with many of the metrics BP uses to judge defense…Loney is slightly below them. Offensively, Kotchman has performed below his expectations, while Loney seems to be close to his minor league line. It’s certainly a tough call, but of the three of them I would prefer Youkilis.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 14, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Red Sox are selling high here. It definetly suits what Braves fans want, which is a postional player to slot at first base the next few seasons. It makes little sense for the Red Sox to make this trade if Ortiz is healthy.

by NEBravesFan33 on Jul 14, 2008 5:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

my problem

if tex leaves at the end of the season and we get 2 draft picks..we could possibly get the 15th pick next june.. with the 14th pick last year we got jason heyward..so if we keep tex till the end of the year we could maybe get another heyward..my point being i dont see youkilis and hansen having the type of ceiling another heyward + a second compensation pick, and would not want this trade to happen

by pj16 on Jul 14, 2008 5:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Now see, if that’s right (which I assume it is), I think I’d rather have the draft picks and either find a cheap free agent 1B or try Throman (yikes…)

by secondbass on Jul 14, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the Other hand...

Picks would be nice, but prospects are a gamble to some degree in that they take years to develop, and sometimes (often even) they don’t pan out as planned. Just because a guy is a first-round pick doesn’t mean he’s going to be a superstar like Heyward, if Heyward ends up having the ceiling that you say he does. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t take the picks, but if the right deal is there, I’d like to see us go for it than gamble with prospects.

With the ability to pick up two first-round picks, we’re certainly not going to be in a hurry to trade Tex, I wouldn’t imagine. It would have to be the right deal to help us not only right now, but also in the future. Youk fits the bill perfectly in that he can play now and play well, and he’s locked up till 2010, so he’s good for the future too.

by skipcaray on Jul 14, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or...

...we could draft a complete bust. Or two complete busts. You make it sound like it’s a piece of cake scoring a solid 1st rounder like Heyward, when that could not be further from the truth. For every Jason Heyward there’s a Trevor Crowe…sometimes several. It might be best to maximize or return to trade for established major leaguers/prospects.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jul 15, 2008 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

David Wright was the supplemental pick for the Mets losing Mike Hampton to Colorado, but that’s a rare case. You’re right, the draft is too spotty. Some first rounders bust, while some twentieth rounders go on to have solid careers. I’ll take prospects over draft picks any day of the week, and so would any major league general manager.

- Oh, Bobby. -

by sdp on Jul 15, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dont forget that their are Veteran parts on this club ( Chipper, Smoltzie if he comes back) that dont have time to wait around for 4-5 years for some draft picks to break through.

by gopherbroke on Jul 15, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we got lucky getting Jason Heyward where we did. It was pretty inexplicable that he fell as far as he did. I’m not saying we wouldn’t get good talent at the 15th pick again, but heyward was a top 5 talent.

by yondaime4 on Jul 16, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pj16

well said. It is my worry as well. To be honest, I’d rather have Michael Bowden, Lars Anderson and Craig Hansen. It might sound crazy, but Anderson will be able to handle first base by 2010.

by NEBravesFan33 on Jul 14, 2008 6:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that'd be a nice haul

..but fred freeman / flowers / kahuuie that would be prob. be ready by 2010 as well (not that they are gonna be as good as Anderson) but look like they will be capable at 1B. another possible situation is that heyward (or johnson for that matter) gets moved to 1B because of all the depth in the outfield. basically wat im saying is the braves really shouldnt be looking for a franchise 1B but rather a player to bridge the gap for a year or two much like mark kotsay was supposed to be this year. IMO they should get a good pitching package with a throw in vet. (ie: sean casey) that could handle it and if he sucks bring up kala or barbora alphabet or maybe pick up the 1B who is tearing apart the mexican league (im really spitballing now)

by pj16 on Jul 14, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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