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Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

Some Things To Consider Re: FYF

Frenchy has frustrated me to no end on several occasions this season. I know many of you out there have felt the same way (as there seems to be no end to the Frenchy bashing on TC).

I'm not sure if this was already posted on another fanpost, but AJC reported today that Frenchy is going to be rocking a contact lense in one eye during night games from now on. Here's the link: http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/06/23/francoeur_0624.html if you just want to read the article for youself.

Dave O'Brien: "He hit just .207 with three homers and a .323 slugging percentage in 50 night games before Monday, and .320 with five homers and a .553 slugging percentage in 26 day games."

Dave O'Brien: "His vision in the eye has deteriorated since Francoeur was struck in the face by a pitch while squaring to bunt in a 2004 minor league game..."

But, before we get ahead of ourselves, DOB makes an excellent point: "If the vision is causing problems in night games, it's a recent development. Last season he hit better at night — .301 with 16 homers and a .466 slugging percentage in 116 night games, and .273 with three homers and a .390 slugging percentage in day games."

His eye was supposed to get progressively worse, however. So, that could explain the whole day/night thing not making a difference until this year. Either way, I am not trying to say that these contacts will absolutely make a difference. He started rocking them last night and he was 0-3 with a strikeout (although anyone who wears contacts knows how uncomfortable they can be during the first week or so of wear). It's just something to consider.

While we're taking things into consideration, if you have a chance, read Kenny Doyle's article titled "What To Do With Jeff Francoeur." Here's the link http://www.dugoutcentral.com/blog/?p=1558 if you want to give it a read. 

Some of his more relevant points: 

1. It's not entirely wise to drop Frenchy any further in the batting order.

 "Should Francoeur bat lower than sixth?  If Mark Kotsay was healthy and Matt Diaz was healthy and performing as he had in the two previous seasons, Francoeur should be dropped lower in the order.  Kotsay and Diaz, however, aren’t healthy and Diaz wasn’t performing even when he was in the lineup.  In the absence of Kotsay and Diaz, manager Bobby Cox has been playing Gregor Blanco, Greg Norton, Omar Infante and Josh Anderson in left and center.  None of those four players, over the course of 162 games, figure to put up numbers better than Francoeur. Thus, they should not bat ahead of Francoeur." 

2. Frenchy shouldn't be sent to the minors.

"Unfortunately, the injury depleted Braves don’t have anyone better in their system to replace Francoeur.  As mentioned above, Kotsay and Diaz are injured and Blanco, Anderson, Norton and Infante aren’t better hitters or players.  Hotshot outfield prospect Jordan Schafer was suspended for 50 games for using HGH and has only played 10 games above A ball.  Prospects Jason Heyward and Gorkys Hernandez are still too young and are only playing A ball.  Prospect Brandon Jones has struggled at AAA Richmond this year."

3. Frenchy may need an attitude adjustment. Oh, and maybe we (i.e., the Braves fans that had hoped he would become the next Dale Murphy) do too.

"Most of all, Francoeur needs to stop trying to be everything to everyone on the field and off of it.  He has been famous since the age of 16 in the Atlanta area because of his high school football and baseball exploits.  Unless he becomes the next Chipper Jones, which he won’t, he’ll never be able to live up to the hype.  It almost seems that he wants to justify the hype by becoming a superstar overnight the way he was in his first two months in the majors in 2005.  He needs to realize that, for now, he is not that kind of hitter." 

My intention in posting info from these two articles isn't to make anyone feel bad about "bashing" Frenchy. Heck, I've spout an expletive-filled tirade or two at the t.v. screen this year after watching Frenchy strike out, etc. It also isn't too excuse Frenchy's lackluster year in any way, shape, or form.

I was hoping Smoltz's Beard or someone who is good with stats could come up with something that compares him to some other players who have been (or were) in the league for a comparable amount of time, with a comparable amount of at bats, etc. Maybe something like that has already been posted. If it has, if you can't point me in the direction of the post, I would appreciate it.

 

This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.

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Contacts won't help

Francoeur swings with his eyes closed.

by skipcaray on Jun 24, 2008 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

BRILLIANT!

Damn dude, Terry P has probably spent countless hours with Frency watching film, hitting off the tee, taking BP, but YOU finally figured it out! I’d expect a call from the Braves front office in the next day or two. I don’t know how they could pass on someone with your expertise.

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 24, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

JK

I hope the contacts thing works well for him.

by skipcaray on Jun 24, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too

(insert sad face)

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 24, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

you guys want to hug and make up?

dont let the door hit you on the vagina on the way out

by traphicg on Jun 24, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yo MAMA!

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 25, 2008 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

This reminds me of

Jake Peavy, in 2006. He started the season poorly, and nobody could really figure it out. He went like 3-9 or something before he decided to get his eyes checked out, and it turns out that he was close to legally blind. He started wearing contact lenses, and finished out the season 8-5.

And then he won the Cy Young the following year. Hmmmmm….

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jun 24, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Thank you ROY!

Exactly! I am not saying it’ll def. make a difference. But it kinda makes you feel a little better about the situation, doesn’t it?

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 24, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Diaz got his eyes checked when he came to the Braves if my memory serves me correctly. Which some people were accrediting with his increased batting average . . . Anyone else remember that.

On another note, when was that dugout article written? It mentions BJönes in AAA and JAnderson playing in LF. Does the guy just not watch the Braves, or is it old?

by JDMaker1 on Jun 24, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a little old I believe...

You think Anderson is a better hitter/player? What about B Jones?

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 24, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think they’re comparable. BJönes has more power and JAnderson has more speed. So, I guess it makes some sense to have BJönes up to face the AL teams where speed matters less.

To be honest, I would be adverse to having BJönes in LF and JAnderson in CF. I thought JAnderson earned the right to get a little more PT when he was up last.

by JDMaker1 on Jun 24, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, but...

You think either is ready to be our starting right fielder if we were to send Frenchy down to the minors to straighten himself out?

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 24, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm, well I think its an option to have BJönes in RF (see last night), JAnderson in LF/CF, and Blanco in LF/CF. It isn’t as if we would get less production from our OF than the current level.

However, I’m not sure if it would be a good move to send Jenny Francoeur down. He really needs someone to step in and tell him to chill out, put the bat on the ball, and stop trying to pull an Andruw Jones. He’s flailing miserably right now and obviously has too much going on upstairs. If you send him down now it might do more harm than good, it might be the straw that breaks the camels back and totally destroys what confidence he has left.

I play a lot of golf and baseball, and if you go up thinking about everything that’s going wrong with your swing you’re screwed. Keep the tinkering to the driving range/batting cage and just stay within yourself and slap the ball around, no reason to try and go yard all the time.

by JDMaker1 on Jun 24, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm...

I guess I am little confused, so you’ll have to be patient with me. So, you think B Jones could equal or surpass Frenchy’s production in RF, but you don’t think we should send Frenchy to the minors because it’ll be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Are you in favor of benching Frenchy? If so, do you think that’ll help?

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 24, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, No. Sorry, I guess that is a bit ambiguous.

I meant to say that I don’t think it’s a good idea to send down Jenny Francoeur or bench him (for an extended period of time). I don’t think it will help the team in the long run. I think that BJönes would be an option to place in RF and would be comparable to Jenny at his current level, I think Jenny is better overall player (despite his current struggles).

To be honest, I’m not sure how long BJönes can play as well as he has been. It isn’t as if he was knocking the cover off of the ball in AAA.

by JDMaker1 on Jun 24, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotcha

BJones is playing out of his mind right now, but I’ll take it.

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 24, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I recall..

MattE got his eyes checked right before he came to Atlanta, and all though he always hit over .300 in the minor leagues his avg. did jump and the thing that MattE said may hold true (lets hope) with Frenchy as well… he said something along the lines of “well I dont know if my eyes were the problem, but thats my story and Im sticking to it” maybe this is what frenchy needs from a mental stand point, something to blame his struggles on and hopefully mentally he thinks he fixed the problem!

by Choptalk on Jun 24, 2008 3:57 PM EDT reply actions  

From DOB's Blog

“Yesterday, I saw something I’d never seen from Francoeur: He slipped in his usually upbeat, perfectly accommodating image that he always potrays when the cameras are on: A local TV guy asked him, on-camera, about all the bashing he was getting on the radio that morning (slick how TV guy passed the buck to the radio guys), and Francoeur said, "I don’t listen to that bull$%#@," only he didn’t use those symbols. He said the whole word.

It wasn’t a big deal, since they weren’t live. But it was revealing. He’s never struggled like this, never been this frustrated. He’d probably like to punch the next one of us who refers to him as Golden Boy.”

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 24, 2008 4:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for the link...

...from Doyle. It’s funny to read though, because alot of the points he makes have been made right on this very board. I was involved in a discussion with someone on here about a comparable player…I said maybe FYF is just a Raul Ibanez type player, with a worse eye, he said perhaps he’s more like Jermaine Dye but he has not developed yet. Can’t remember who it was or what post it was in. Dye was terrible in taking a BB his first three seasons…all of which he had less than 300 PAs. He finally got his shit together in his first full season and had an OBP of around .350 only to go back and forth for the next couple years…some years with a sub .800 OPS, some with an above .900 OPS. FYF has not made that adjustment. I’d be thrilled if he did, because I’d take a Jermaine Dye copycat in RF for the next decade.

Baseball Prospectus has a feature where it lists the most comparable players from the past:

Comparable Players are the backbone of a player’s PECOTA. Only the twenty best comparables are listed here, but as many as 100 players may be used in the generation of his forecast if they are sufficiently comparable.

PECOTA compares each player against a database of roughly 20,000 major league batter seasons since World War II. In addition, it also draws upon a database of roughly 15,000 translated minor league seasons (1997-2006) for players that spent most of their previous season in the minor leagues. (When minor league comparables are used, they appear in ALL CAPS). PECOTA considers four broad categories of attributes in determining a hitter’s comparability:

1. Production metrics—such as batting average, isolated power, and unintentional walk rate for hitters, or strikeout rate and groundball rate for pitchers.

2. Usage metrics, including career length and plate appearances or innings pitched.

3. Phenotypic attributes, including handedness, height, weight, career length (for major leaguers), and minor league level (for prospects).

4. Fielding Position (for hitters) or starting/relief role (for pitchers). PECOTA doesn’t require that a comparable hitter play the same defensive position; it is a factor that is evaluated along with many others, and assigned a relatively substantial weight. Consideration is also given to the ‘similarity’ between two positions; for example, a shortstop will be compared to a second baseman before he is compared to a left fielder. In most cases, the database is large enough to provide a meaningfully large set of appropriate comparables. When it isn’t, the program is designed to ‘cheat’ by expanding its tolerance for dissimilar players until a reasonable sample size is reached.

Here’s what it comes up with.

1 Charlie Spikes
2 George Hendrick
3 Vernon Wells
4 Carlos Lee
5 Ollie Brown
6 Joe Adcock
7 Marc Newfield
8 Larry Parrish
9 Joe Rudi
10 Tony Horton
11 Jermaine Dye
12 Tim Wallach
13 Gus Bell
14 Dale Murphy
15 Mike Ivie
16 Pedro Munoz
17 Chili Davis
18 Ron Swoboda
19 Ken McMullen
20 Aramis Ramirez

by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 24, 2008 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Hell, check out some of the other names on that list too…Vernon Wells? Carlos Lee? I think we’d be thrilled if FYF reached those levels.

by VegasAces on Jun 25, 2008 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not so sure about Vernon Wells anymore. He’s done absolutely horrid the last two season at the plate…wonder if it’s a nagging injury.

Carlos Lee, now that’d be very nice.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 25, 2008 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wells

Classic case of “I got my huge contract, time to loaf and play way below my expectations, and then to gradually turn it back up to normal as next contract time comes to make it look like I’m playing way over my head but am only really playing up to my normal potential so that fans will like me again and want to pay me 128-million more Canadian dollars”

That being said, watch Mike Hampton show up in September and throw a perfect game in his one regular season appearance.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jun 25, 2008 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haha…as insane as that sounds I actually feel like that could happen. The hardest part is getting Hampton on the mound…once he’s there he’ll be un-hittable.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 25, 2008 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do we call that an “Andruw”

by Swo12bv on Jun 26, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I had hesitations about Wells too…almost picked out Adcock instead.

by VegasAces on Jun 25, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

GOOD STUFF

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 25, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

If anything

this should give Franceour a mental boost that his struggles could be attributted to a small eye sight problem. Take for example diaz’s situation in the royals organization. he was below average so we picked him up, gave him an eye exam and found a depth perception problem. He got contacts and proceded to hit 340.

by colerocks on Jun 24, 2008 6:26 PM EDT reply actions  

BTW

anyone have updates on any draft signings? Stovall, Tompson, and Pallazonne specifically.

by colerocks on Jun 24, 2008 6:27 PM EDT reply actions  

DOB/FWren on Frenchy

Those who suggest the Braves should bench Francoeur: And play who in right field? Are you even considering other options they have or don’t have, or just blindly saying, "bench him!" Because honestly, who are they going to play in RF while Kotsay and Diaz are still on DL?

Anyway, here’s what FRANK WREN said when I asked him about FRANCOEUR this morning, on whether he’s pressing, etc:

WREN: "Jeff’s going through a time right now where he’s trying to do a lot. He’s trying to do a lot of things. Trying to get on track … He’s just human, and it bothers [anyone in that situation].

"He’s been so successful and so good for so long, and when you go through these times you just have to persevere and fight through it, and I know he’s doing that.

"I talked to him yesterday and just said, ‘Keep playing. Just keep playing hard.’ That’s all you can do at this point. Probably the less you think about it and the less you focus on it, the better."

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 26, 2008 4:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Campillo in RF.

I'm gettin' out of this town alive...even if it kills me.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 26, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha

+0.5

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jun 26, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe Porky?

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on Jun 26, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

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