Will the Real Frenchy Please Stand Up?
In 2005 Jeff Francoeur did more than make an impact for the Atlanta Braves. He also gave fans reason to be excited about the future. With stars like Chipper Jones, and John Smoltz starting to age, and Andruw Jones nearing the end of his contract, Braves fans were happy to see the Atlanta native make a big splash.
The hype surrounding Francoeur was well intact long before he became the ninth player in Braves history to homer in his Major League debut. Just three years earlier, Francoeur had become an Atlanta hero after leading Parkview (GA) High School to a state championship, and finishing a high school career that saw him hit .443 with 55 HR and 164 RBI. Maybe just as impressive was the fact that he was tabbed to be a great quarterback for the Clemson Tigers.
Perhaps the praise came too quick and too often for Frenchy. Or maybe he is still adjusting to life in the bigs. It might even be that I have forgotten how young he is, but as a Braves fan, I have become disappointed and at times disgusted with the aggressive free-swinger. Frustration sets in every time I see him strikeout or hit into one of his signature double plays. How many times have we seen Francoeur come to the plate with runners in scoring position and one out just to see him pop out in the infield or serve up a weak grounder to short (not to second because he refuses to hit the other way)?
Braves fans are quickly forgetting the excitement they felt about the “Baby Braves” in ‘05 and ‘06. Catcher Brian McCann is the only one of the group to live up to expectations. Defensively, Francoeur is better than advertised. He often shows off the arm that Clemson coach’s were drooling over. Offensively, he has been as inconsistent as Hillary Clinton’s Bosnia stories. At times he has displayed the ability to come up big in the clutch. However, he has more often been a free-swinging rally killer with no desire to lay off a chin high ball or hit an outside pitch to the right side.
After a solid ‘07 campaign in which he hit .293 and won a well deserved Gold Glove Award, it was looking like Francoeur was primed for a bust out season in ‘08. Even though his home runs were down (19) from ‘06 (29), he impressed the Braves staff with his bat by coming up huge with runners in scoring position and finishing with 105 RBI. Through the first 64 games of the ‘08 season Francoeur has disappointed both fans and coach’s with his .253 batting average. Even more disheartening is the fact that he has yet to learn how to lay off pitches outside of the strike zone. He has nearly three times as many strikeouts as walks.
| SEASON | TEAM | G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | TB | BB | SO | SB | CS | OBP | SLG | AVG | |||||||||||||||||
| 2005 | Atlanta Braves | 70 | 257 | 41 | 77 | 20 | 1 | 14 | 45 | 141 | 11 | 58 | 3 | 2 | .336 | .549 | .300 | |||||||||||||||||
| 2006 | Atlanta Braves | 162 | 651 | 83 | 169 | 24 | 6 | 29 | 103 | 292 | 23 | 132 | 1 | 6 | .293 | .449 | .260 | |||||||||||||||||
| 2007 | Atlanta Braves | 162 | 642 | 84 | 188 | 40 | 0 | 19 | 105 | 285 | 42 | 129 | 5 | 2 | .338 | .444 | .293 | |||||||||||||||||
| 2008 | Atlanta Braves | 63 | 253 | 31 | 64 | 16 | 2 | 7 | 36 | 105 | 15 | 41 | 0 | 1 | .303 | .415 | .253 | |||||||||||||||||
| 457 | 1803 | 239 | 498 | 100 | 9 | 69 | 289 | 823 | 91 | 360 | 9 | 11 | .317 | .456 | .276 | |||||||||||||||||||
Francoeur has become thought of as an important cog for the Braves. Coming into this season, many in baseball described the Braves line-up as dangerous in big part because Francoeur was expected to be a big producer behind Chipper Jones, Mark Teixeira, and Brian McCann. With the injury bug that has hit the Braves outfield and pitching staff, production from Francoeur is desperately needed. With each strikeout and each runner left in scoring position, Francoeur’s struggles become more and more hurtful to the Braves playoff chances.
It is easy to see the talent and potential that Francoeur brings to the table. That is why both Bobby Cox and general manager Frank Wren have made signing Francoeur to a long term contract a priority after this season. The question is, what kind of a player will they be signing. Will he become a big bat in the middle of the line-up when Chipper is gone, or will we still be waiting for that bust out season. The future of the Braves may be riding on that question. If the Braves are going to keep Teixeira after this season it’s going to cost more than they are used to paying for a position player. This would mean that by the time they bring in a quality starting pitcher, there may not be enough money left over in their ridiculously low budget to keep Francour in Atlanta. By refusing to follow McCann’s lead in signing a contract extension, he has set himself up for a big payday via arbitration. This could hamper Wren’s ability to sign Teixeira. If that is indeed the case, then maybe they should look at trading Francoeur for a starting pitcher.
In my mind, both Teixeira and good starting pitching are more important than anything Francoeur would bring over the next few years. Especially with the possible retirement of Smoltz. Pitching is what took the Braves from worst to first in ‘91. It is also what won the World Series in ‘95. Pitching is what won 14 consecutive division titles, and pitching is what is needed if Cox is going to get another ring before he retires. If the Braves teams of the ’90’s had a line-up consisting of Yunel Escobar, Jones, Teixeira, and McCann they would have won more than one title. If this team had the great pitching of those teams, you could take Francoeur out of the line-up and still have more than enough offense to win a championship.
However, if Frenchy were to play to the potential he has shown at times, he could become the future of this franchise. He could also be a guy that you build a team around. If Teixeira gets greedy and leaves town, the Braves will be desperately in need of that type of player. Chipper may only have a few more seasons left in him and as good as McCann is, you just can’t build a team around a catcher. Either way, a decision needs to be made about the future of Jeff Francoeur.
As a Braves fan for over 20 years I’m not sure if I can stand another bases loaded double play or another three pitch strikeout. The occasional runner thrown out from right field just doesn’t make up for all the runners left on base. I must say that I hope he proves me to be a little premature with my discontent. Please Jeff, show me that the props I gave you last year are well deserved. Are you the Gold Glover with the 100 RBI and timely two out hits, or are you that guy that always seems to swing at ball four in the dirt and has nothing to offer but a strong arm and utter frustration? After 64 games and trailing the Phillies by 6.5 games I ask; will the real Frenchy please stand up?
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
26 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
There's definitely a problem here...
Maybe they should DL him for 15 days and see how he responds afterwards. If no improvement for the first 15 back, then shop him. As for this year, if this long road trip goes like all the previous ones, we’re done—stick a fork in us. It is time for a longer look at some young guys and some serious trade discussions with no one held back.
I fear we are in a predicament with Francouer. If you go to Braves games, you’ll see he gets the biggest ovation, or may be even with Chipper right now. Trading him would probably have a negative impact on attendance. I’m sure if you look it up, Francouer merchandise is the best seller. Alot of fans that go to the games don’t realize how disapointing he has become. Now i think the time will come, where people start to realize this. If we were in New York, LA, Chicago, or Boston, he would be getting torn to shreds in the media. The boo birds will eventually come, and that may be a wake up call to Jeff.
There are many factors to being a good hitter
Yogi Berra said it best: “Ninety percent of this game is mental; the other half is physical.“
Francoeur’s definitely got the physical part down. If every umpire were Tim McClelland, and forced all pitchers to throw straight down the middle all day long, then Jeff Francoeur would already have broken every record held by Bonds, Rodriguez, McGwire, Sosa, Mays, Aaron, and what the hell, Sadaharu Oh.
Mental toughness is where Francoeur looks more like the ability of Pedro Astacio instead of Greg Maddux. When I say that, it has nothing to do with his intelligence, but more of his inability to focus on what matters each time he steps to the plate – doing his job. Most people here firmly agree that it’s visibly noticeable when he steps to the plate in various scenarios; by himself, he’ll hit singles/doubles. Men on 1st and 2nd, and maybe he’ll go the other way. Bases loaded, he’s going to try to play the role of hero. And the bigger problem is that everyone else, including the opposition knows it too.
Ever since the word was out that he can’t lay off of the high chest-high fastball, every single pitcher in the league throws it on two-strikes. The more alarming fact is that he continues to swing at it; he seems to still believe that after an 0-2 count, he will actually see something straight down the middle.
Before I go off on another tangent, the bottom line is that I don’t believe that Francoeur is mentally tough enough yet to be taken seriously. The problem with certain phenoms/prodigies is that they sometimes buy into their own hype; anyone ever read/hear Jordan Schafer’s quotes? He’s one cocky kid. I think they tend to look past the present, and start planning for the future, failing to realize that without a good present, a great future is impossible. With four years under his belt, Francoeur’s running out of “youthful inexperience” excuses.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
I just think it’s funny that Francoeur was bandied about this offseason as valuable because he had some inate “clutch” hitting ability. Well, we call what’s happening now regression to the mean. Color me unsurprised.
Though keep it in perspective that he’s what 24? He still has time to reach a .300/.340/.500 peak in a few years, and combined with his arm, that’s a well above average (but not superstar) right fielder. We just expected so much more based on the first month of his career.
You're probably right...
the expectation level may have been unrealistic. Maybe that’s why his head is so screwed up right now. I guess the temptation is to give the local boy a greater chance to make good. But, at what cost? When is enough, enough? At 24, do you just sit him down a while and give him a chance to clear his head hoping that will help him stop swinging at everything that’s thrown?
I don't know either
what else can you do? I don’t know if this has been said or matters, but Frenchy put on some bulk lately (I think overall about 20lbs since ‘06). Maybe not so much in a physical sense, but that might suggest he is more concerned with getting the ball to go farther than just getting base hits. Maybe I’m reading too much into that. Maybe the bulk is from Catie’s spaghetti (without sauce, for those that have seen Spotlight)? I think another problem he’s having now is trying to tweak things too much and has gotten away from what works.
I believe we all agree it is likely some lack of mental toughness on his part and I have no solution. Moving him lower in the order is a start. Sitting him in favor of a hot hitter is another. Tell him he that with bases loaded its better to get 2 runs on a single than 0 runs with a strikeout or 2 outs with a Vidro. I really don’t know…
What are you talking about...
It’s clearly, 20lbs. of Varsity Chili Dogs… of “muscle.”
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
if we were to trade...
If we traded Frenchy, what could we get?
Maybe:
Frenchy
Deunte Heath
Concepcion Rodriguez
Kala
for
Maddux
Headley
Would the padres do this? would we?
what happened to his power?
his bat has been better lately (powerwise), but i remeber watching a spring training game and the announcer said how frenchy put on 20 pounds of muscle after working out all offseason with college football players. i expected a lot more home runs from him.
so did he...
But you must connect with the ball in order for it to travel out of the park. I think that is what I’m getting at in my post above, that he probably spent his offseason trying to get big to hit the ball farther instead of just situational hitting. That is purely speculation on my part, and I know we’ve been debating subjectivity lately, that is absolutely subjective. But his BA, OPS, and RBIs with bases loaded will attest that he cracks when the pressure is on.
true
You are correct in saying that he worries too much about killing it instead of smooth contact. Think about it, every time you see him swing the bat, he just swings so hard, you watch Pujols and you see a smooth swing that still kills the ball. But then again, he is Albert Pujols
Same with Chase Utility
Utley doesn’t even swing the bat all the way around and he can’t keep the ball in the park…this year. He’s hit 1 fewer HR this year than all of last year…
Just throwing some numbers out there...
Francoeur last year was pretty “clutch;” I actually enjoyed seeing him at the plate in a crucial situation. Obviously, the BP adage applies here; I’m not seeing a constant string of Andruw Jones-like futility in RISP situations.
2007
RISP: .341 .389 .527
2-out RISP: .333 .408 .494
Late & Close: .312 .350 .419
2008
RISP: .234 .274 .377
2-out RISP: .270 .289 .378
Late & Close: .231 .286 .462
I’ve also heard comparisons of Francoeur to Andruw Jones. Consider, though:
Francoeur
Age 22 Season: .260/.293/.449. 29 HR. 23/132 K/BB. 87 OPS+.
Age 23: .293 .338 .444. 19 HR. 42/129 K/BB. 103 OPS+.Jones
Age 22: .275/.365/.483. 26 HR. 76/103 K/BB. 113 OPS+.
Age 23: .303/.366/.541. 36 HR. 59/100 K/BB. 125 OPS+.
Jones had about 2 seasons’ worth of ML at-bats before his age 22 season. Francoeur had the hot second half. Jones was also pretty good by age 22. Francoeur…not so much. It’s a little worrisome.
Wish I had more time to play with numbers, but work calls.
+1
Why on earth would he change his plate mentality after his progress last season? He increased his walk rate from 3% in ‘06 to 6% in ‘07 (which is still terrible) but because he hit 10 fewer HRs he felt he needed to change this year. He still drove in 100 RBI and his slugging percentage was almost identical due to 16 more doubles. I really thought he was due for a major breakout this season. I remember when I first heard he had added muscle b/c he wanted to hit 30+ bombs I was excited. It didn’t take me long to realize that he had become obsessed with it…and the numbers you quoted above are glaring proof that he tries even harder when it really counts.
I know I don’t speak for only myself when I say that I was perfectly content with him roping a single into right-center field.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 10, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The scary thing is that his BABIP back in 2006 was .284 while in 2007 is was .337. The typical is around .310. So his “improvement” may have just been a small amount of luck. Maybe he only is a .275-type hitter, and unless he learns to walk that won’t take him terribly far. Like Raul Ibanez with a better arm and worse plate discipline.
PS…his BABIP is .275 thus far this year, so he has been getting some unlucky breaks. Hopefully some of his line drives will start to fall in soon.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 10, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope this doesn't ruffle too many peoples' feathers...
In the grander scheme of things, I think the only stat that really matters as a batter are RBIs.
Yes, there are a lot of misleading statistics that can yield a high RBI total, and not much else, but let’s face it, I don’t think any one of us wouldn’t be content if the Braves roped 4-5 straight singles twice a game and scored several times and kept a high amount of pressure on an opposing pitcher.
I’m not a big fan of the all-or-nothing-only-three-outcomes Adam Dunn style player. Homers are exciting, and awesome to witness, but in what we’re discussing, I enjoyed the high-average/fewer-HR/high-RBI Francoeur, over the crap-average/high-HR/high-RBI Francoeur that struck out a lot more frequently. There was definitely something different watching last year, and seeing Francoeur come up to the plate with runners on. It was a feeling of hope and optimism, that he would get someone home. Not so much this year. Look back at all the open threads – the sarcastic, dreading, agonizing remarks made when Jeffy steps to the plate in a critical situation – speaks for itself.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
You would think,
certainly someone has pointed this out to him? If he could change so much one way, he should be able to go back, shouldn’t he?
Slow down
Does Jeff frustrate me as a fan and viewer; yes. Is he someone that we should be shipping out on a rail tomorrow? No.
He is 24 yrs old and fortunately for the Braves they have enough bats that they can hide him for the moment in the #6 slot. If he were the primary cleanup hitter then I would be more pressed to move now. However, right now he is a #6 hitter, in a good line up, who is struggling at the moment.
If we were to try and trade him right now we would be getting the lowest possible return. This is NOT the time to trade him. Someone mentioned Headley as a trade option. Why would we want someone like Headley? You would be taking someone who has no major league track record and is also 24 yrs old-Same age as Frenchy. Headley’s numbers look good now, but he is hitting in the PCL. I could go out and hit .250 with moderate power in the PCL.
I think everyone needs to calm down and let him work it out. If this slump continued into July I would not be opposed to sending Jeff down to AA or AAA to help him figure it out. However, at 24 his growth curve should still have plenty of growth. If you want to look at a similiar player-look at Dye. Both we called up early in their careers. Started out with poor plate discipline and and bad OBPs. Dye caught on at about 25. I think you could expect Franceour to do the same.
The reality is that Frenchy should never have been brought up when he was. However, give him a chance to pull himself out of the hole before we send him out of town.
I certainly would prefer your Dye comparison to my Ibanez one, but Dye was already taking walks in his first major league season. His 3 years prior he had less than 300 PAs each year, and he was much worse that Frenchy was at his age. But Dye seemed to have pulled it together in a faster manner…but hopefully it clicks in soon for Francoeur.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 10, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Comparisons to Dye
Here is what Dye’s numbers looked like:
‘96- 8 walks 67 Ks OBP of .304 in 292 ABs
‘97-17 walks 51 Ks OBP of .284 in 263 ABs
‘98-11 walks 46 Ks OBP of .270 in 214 ABs
‘99- 58 walks 119 ks OBP of .354 in 608 ABs
Dye defintely couldn’t take a walk early on. However, after ‘99 he didn’t walk ALOT but was walking 50-60 times a year with an OBP around .350. If we got that from Frenchy we would be set!
My point is that defintely don’t want to be trading away Franceour in the near future.
I agree with what you’re saying. Those first 3 seasons comprise roughly 805 PAs (not including SF, HBP, or IBB) which is a little over a full season for most players. So you could say that in Dye’s “second full season”, if you will, we has taking walks at about a 9% rate per PA which isn’t fantastic…but as a RF who had a .526 SLG it is more than acceptable. In comparison, Francoeur hit his 805 PAs at the end of 2006 and was not only walking in about 3% of his PAs, but he had a .449 SLG. Since then he’s bumped his walk rate up to about 6% per PA, but his SLG is down bigtime.
If Francoeur turned into the next Jermaine Dye I would be somewhat disappointed because I expected him to be a superstar after his rookie campaign, but it would make him a very productive #5 hitter for a long time. I hope you’re right and age 25 helps him flip the light on upstairs. Taking a walk is okay!
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 11, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Look At The Minors!
Is there anything in there that leads you to believe he would be a star? He was an .800 OPS slugger despite not ever having to face the toughest opposition by playing in AAA. He is what he is and that’s not going to change. If he improves, I’ll gladly eat crow, but I won’t wait for it…
Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!
I certainly believed the hype, which does not happen often to me.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 11, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions

by 
























