Can we win it all?

by get swoll yunel on May 23, 2008 3:16 AM EDT Comment 21 comments

Let me first say that I obviously love the way we've played at home thus far and the way we took care of the Mets, but the starting rotation (as it is currently comprised) scares the hell out of me. Just looking at the upcoming D-backs series and the pitching match ups has me thinking that we have very little chance of succeeding in the playoffs. Yeah, Campillo was great the other day, but there's a reason the guy was a journeyman, and Jurrjens and Reyes are too young to rely on both for the entire season and in a five/seven game series. And Glavine, as much as I still love the guy, is basically using batting practice stuff and his own craftiness to get by at this point. He's basically a solid 4 at this point in his career.

So I ask you (and I realize I'm obviously getting ahead of myself here)... do you think this team as it is currently constructed has any sort of chance to win it all if they were to reach the playoffs? I know many of you will cry foul with this question and stress that we have to actually make the playoffs before considering our chance of success in it, but living through 14 straight division titles and one World Series win has made me a bit spoiled/frustrated in the accomplishments of this team. Merely to make the playoffs would not be any sort of satisfactory accomplishment for me. Especially with the impending retirements of Smoltz/Glavine, the likely departure of Tex, the aging of Chipper, etc.

I think the only way we're viable playoff contenders is if we acquire one more proven 2-3 type starter to give us a chance in a playoff series. Jurrjens is the man, but at 22 in his first full season of big league ball he is bound to tire somewhat down the stretch. And are really relying on Glavine/Reyes/Campillo/Mike Disabled to get us through a seven game series? This is just something that has bothered me ever since Smoltzie went down (and out of the rotation) and I'm wondering where some of you stand on this...

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You bring up good points

And I think we will need to go for another starter, or someone is going to have to step up and fill in the role. I think, barring any injuries, our offense should produce. I’m not worried at all. And remarkably, our bullpen has settled in and is playing really well so far. The rotation has been good so far, but you are correct, what happens down the stretch? I have written Hampton off. I don’t expect to see him, and if we do I doubt it will be anything to brag about.

I know I’m crazy, but I have been saying for a while now that we should go for Maddux. He’s not an end-all solution, but he is an obvious guy that is still pitching decent, on a team that is terrible, has ties in Atlanta, is likely in his last or second-to-last season, and maybe we could get him for cash or a couple prospects. By no means should we give up the farm for him, but I truly think he could help us.

To answer the ultimate question, yes. I’m confident and optimistic that either some guys are going to step it up or Wren will make some moves to help is later. My only source of concern right now, is playing on the road. But, in the end, we work it out and we’re a playoff team.

by jug on May 23, 2008 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Way too early...

...to even think about this. Although I love our chances of winning the NL East.

by Smoltz's Beard on May 23, 2008 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not If You Were To Ask FW

Bet you FW is thinking about it. I bet he’s been thinking about it for a while. That’s why we pay him the big bucks.

"You never know what I'm going to do..."
- Michael Vick (Palm Beach Post 11/6/2005)

by jamesrael on May 23, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Prospects

Other thought is for the Braves to hang on and make the playoffs despite the current pitching staff, hope some of the promising pitching prospects develop enough to be good in the playoffs. Start getting Morton infused in the second half, maybe Hanson and/or Rohrbough can contribute down the stretch.
Fortunately the rest of the NL East has its flaws this year.

by Recon on May 23, 2008 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Diamondbacks.

So Jair is too young, but Max Scherzer isn’t? Glavine is too old, but Randy Johnson isn’t? Yeah, the D’backs have better starting pitching than we do at the moment, but they just scored ONE run combined for Webb and Haren on back-to-back days AGAINST THE MARLINS. They’ve allowed 20 runs more overall than we have in the same ammount of games so far this season. By the way, mighty Arizona has a 9-12 record against teams that are currently 5 games UNDER .500 or better.

As for us, we’ll have Charlie Morton (currently dominating AAA) joining the staff in Atlanta sometime this summer. I really doubt Rohrbough or Hanson make an apperance for the big league team, but they could get a September call-up if they dominate AA. We also have Lillibridge and/or possibly Brandon Jones as high value propsects in the event that we have to make a move. I believe we’ll be fine as is (with internal reinforcements) but there certainly is no reason to worry about it yet.

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 23, 2008 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Way to take what I said out of context

Yeah, I agree our line-up should score more runs than the D-backs and our bullpen with the potential 3 headed monster of Soriano/Gonzo/Smoltzie should be the best in the game.

But B. Webb, Haren, and Micah Owings is a much scarier 1-2-3 than anything we can throw out there. I had full confidence against anyone when Smoltz was still leading it, but now, not so much.

And when did I say Scherzer (who really is their 5) wasn’t young and Randy Johnson (who is their 4) wasn’t old? That much is obvious, but barring injury the D-backs will hardly be counting on those guys heavily in playoffs. What I’m saying is that our Hudson/Jurrjens/Glavine rotation doesn’t look particular formidable in a playoff 5/7 game series. Of course it’s early, as I already stated, but it’s something to think about long term if we really want to actually succeed in October and not just be content in getting there.

by get swoll yunel on May 23, 2008 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Scherzer isn't our #5.

Our rotation right now goes Webb-Haren-Owings-Davis-RJ. Scherzer’s our #6/swingman, pushing Edgar Gonzalez, our former #5, (when Randy and then Davis were on the DL and Scherzer was in AAA) into some weird #7/swingman no-mans-land.

If RJ gets injured again and can’t finish the year, Scherzer will rejoin the rotation, though.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 24, 2008 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clarifications.

I wasn’t addressing something you said when I asked my “too young/too old”, but rather something that was implied. The point is Huddy and Jair have been about as good as Webb and Haren so far this year, despite Timmy’s bizarrely flat starts and Jair’s inexperience. Owings is certainly the better #3, but his ERA is about the same as Glavine’s because Tommy has the ability to pitch out of jams. They certainly have the better rotation, whether or not they acknowledge the Scherzer is their 4th best starter, but that’s just one aspect of the game.

Their hitters have struck out over 100 times more than ours have. As the league has adapted to their young stars strike out tendencies, their performances have dimmed and their line-up has struggled. Aside from the K’s, we flat hit better than they do, we’re getting better and they’re getting worse. I’ll take our line-up over their’s just as eagerly as you claim their rotation over ours. They have a solid bullpen and so do we, only ours is likely to gain three additional closers without having to give anything up. And STILL, no one has explained why they are under .500 as a team against clubs that our anything better than a doormat.

Let me state this plainly: as presently consituted, I’d take our Braves over their D’backs. Would trading for a better #3 pitcher help our chances in October? Obviously. Is it necessary, possible or prudent? All debatable. People continue to underrate this team of ours and I don’t know why it is. I’m sorry if this or anything else I’ve said offended you or if it seemed unfair or whatever; that was not my intention. I just get tired of hearing why this team has failed, is failing or will fail when, in fact, there are just as many reasons for optimisism.

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 24, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I find this conversation very interesting....

....but am a bit worried about joining in an opinion-based discussion on a foreign site….

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 24, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Get You.

If you want, we can have it over on the D’backs website here on SB Nation, cause I don’t mind. Arizona has a fine team this year, better than the 2007 edition and no where near as good as it’s gonna be sooner rather than later. That said, I don’t think they’re the prohibitive favorites to win the NL. This is all I’m saying. In the context of this FanPost: we do not NEED to make a big trade in order to compete against your boys in October. Fair enough?

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 24, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, if you didn't mind my $0.02, I wouldn't mind giving it here.

I’m just very careful when I’m at foreign sites because different sites have different definitions of trolling and such….

I don’t think we’re prohibitive favorites to win, either. We all knew that we weren’t going to be able to keep up our torrid pace of April. We’re not as pedestrian as we’ve been playing lately, either. (Our offense, anyway) I think our pitching really IS this good, though, and despite our early season slugging, pitching is going to be what carries us—again.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 24, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Agree.

I think your pitching is BETTER than this, but I’m not sure that your offense will be all that good this year. You have a ton of young guys K’ing like crazy and it usually takes a while to adjust in that respect. I love your team over the next three years (if you don’t make some World Series noise, I’d be shocked) but I’m just not sold on them in 2008.

By the way, that’s really classy that you’d be so careful about commenting on another site. Again, I know I piss off some Braves fans with my content, tone and opinions, so I hope I didn’t disrespect you or your team in this. Thanks for stopping by and, for my money, you’re always welcome.

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 25, 2008 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're far too kind.

:-)

But I don’t really consider being careful about commenting on another site to be “classy”. More like “common courtesy”. I wouldn’t come to your house and make a mess.

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on Jun 3, 2008 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We've allowed 20 more runs, many of which were unearned,

but in a much more hitter-friendly home stadium….

Sorry, just wanted to point that out. Carry on….

Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.

by DbacksSkins on May 24, 2008 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In short answer:

Yes.

Of course we can. In baseball, as well as all other sports, anything is possible.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on May 23, 2008 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

we can. but WILL we?

...ask me in october.

by bigjoe on May 23, 2008 10:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

stark threw out a name in his chat...

and that name was ben sheets, who is in the final year of his deal and has only missed one start.

the braves have some blocked prospects and, if two of the three relievers return, excess relievers (don’t kid yourself into thinking that all three will be back pitching well this season if ever).

i don’t think the braves will necessarily need another starter to make the playoffs, but i probably buy the argument that hudson-jair-glavine-someone is not a good enough playoff rotation.

PS i wonder if the tigers wish they still had jurrjens… looks like a pretty dumb trade for them right now

by zwillis on May 24, 2008 10:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sheets.

Interesting gamble… Iwonder what the price might be??? If the Brew Crew don’t contend soon and they don’t feel like keeping him arounf longterm (two BIG if) he might be a nice trade target. Has anyone heard anything about how much he might cost in terms of prospects in a trade? I don’t now what they might need (Milwaukee seems pretty set all over) but we have the pieces to string together a solid package…

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 25, 2008 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is half the reason I made this topic… I wanted to see if there were some names out there other than the Blantons, Arroyos, etc. that we could possibly look at if we felt we needed another starter (which I think we will if we’re serious about winning it all)

by get swoll yunel on May 26, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I get your point...

I just disagreed with the premise of your FanPost. When you say “Just looking at the upcoming D-backs series and the pitching match ups has me thinking that we have very little chance of succeeding in the playoffs” I’m going to let you know that I think that’s a bad assessment. I hope the series shed some light on why I’m not as worried as you are. Yes, our rotation is not the best in league, but that’s just one aspect of the game. I happen to believe we have the best balance in the NL and that, if we don’t lose anyone else important for a significant period of time, we should be able to make a legit run at the World Series without having to make a big time trade. I apologize for my tone if it offended you, but that’s my bottom line. These Atlanta Braves are World Series contenders.

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 26, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sheets would be pretty expensive for a rental, given the current SP market. You make a good point; while they’re not very good, they don’t really have a lot of holes either at the moment since they’ve just brought up so many kids (Fielder, Braun, Hart, Weeks, Hardy) who mostly happen to be playing terribly right now. Except for their bullpen, which is terrible. But I don’t think Blaine Boyer will get it done. Maybe if we threw in a replacement for Ned Yost?

So I guess the Crew would be hard to trade with, because their need is major-league-ready pitching. Their window is the next few seasons, so they’re probably not looking for prospects who are a few years away like the Rangers were last year.

by zwillis on May 25, 2008 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs