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"Chasing Four-Tenths"

I'm not sure if I'm really supposed to be continuously pasting segments of Baseball Prospectus directly onto this blog, but please go ahead and erase this if you feel it is unnecessary Gondee.  It's just a short article about our boy:

Sabermetric study has long ago proven that batting average is not one of the better indicators of a player’s offensive prowess. On-base percentage, slugging percentage, and a host of other, more advanced metrics paint a clearer picture. A look at Chipper JonesOBP, SLG, and EqA shows the venerable Braves third baseman is off to an outstanding start this season. Jones’ 1144 OPS and .389 EqA are both second in the major leagues to the AstrosLance Berkman (1243, .393), while his .459 OBP and .685 SLG are both third.

However, the number that stands out the most in Jones’ stat line for many is his .400 batting average, which leads the majors. While average is an archaic measure to more contemporary analysts, there is still something magical about the mark, and it still appears on every scoreboard in the major leagues.

"It’s such a special mark in the game of baseball," Braves manager Bobby Cox said. "I don’t think that will ever change, regardless of the new statistics you see nowadays. For someone to hit .400 for an entire season would be one of the greatest feats in sports. Heck, just to hit .400 for as long as Chipper has is a great accomplishment. You’ve seen how long it’s been since someone has done that."

Sixty-seven years have passed since Ted Williams hit .406 for the 1941 Red Sox. Only four players have hit even .380 since--Tony Gwynn (.394 for the Padres in strike-shortened 1994), George Brett (.390 for the 1990 Royals), Williams (.388 for the 1957 Red Sox), and Rod Carew (.388 for the 1977 Twins).

"I always though Pete Rose would be the one guy who could do it, but he never came close, which tells you how hard it is," Cox reflected. Rose holds baseball’s all-time hits record with 4,256, but his highest batting average in a 24-year career was .348.

While Cox isn’t about to say that Jones is ready to become the first player since Williams to finish at .400, he does see why the 15-year veteran could at least have a fighting chance at the mark. "When you look at the last two guys who made a serious run at .400, Gwynn and Brett, those guys used the whole field as hitters and didn’t strike out very much," Cox said. "Chipper is the same kind of hitter. He has a little more power than those guys, but he sprays the ball from gap to gap and makes consistent contact. I’ll tell you this much, though, if he keeps swinging the bat all year like he has so far this season, he’d have a chance. I’ve seen him get hot a lot of times over the years, but I’ve never seen him this hot for this long."

Jones isn’t getting caught up in any kind of .400 mania at this early point of the season, saying "I’m swinging the bat well but it’s far too early to be thinking what my batting average might be at the end of the year."

Jones believes he has been the beneficiary of hitting behind the pair of players in the top two spots in the order, second baseman Kelly Johnson and shortstop Yunel Escobar. Johnson has a .328 on-base percentage and a .267 EqA but had a .375 OBP last year, while Escobar’s figures are .399 and .301. That trio at the top has helped the Braves rank third in the majors as a team in EqA. "When they are on base all the time, pitchers have to come right at me," Jones said. "They can’t afford to try to pitch around me and put another runner on base. It always helps when you’re getting pretty good pitches to hit. We’ve got a pretty good offense and when Johnson and Escobar are getting on base the way they are, we’re really good. There is no reason why we shouldn’t score a lot of runs."

What has the 36-year-old Jones more excited from a personal standpoint is that he is just four home runs away from 400 in his career. The only other switch-hitters to reach that mark are Mickey Mantle (536) and Eddie Murray (511). Jones appreciates being in that company. "When you think of Mickey Mantle you think of home runs and when you think of Eddie Murray, you think of longevity and his ability to produce runs," Jones said. "I’d like to be remembered as a combination of the two, a guy who could be counted on to hit home runs, drive in runs, hit for a high average, get on base, hit for power and be consistent from both sides of the plate, a consistently good switch-hitter."

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Chipper..

...is a stud. While doing my “1995 Revisited” pieces (game by game all season long), I noticed that in 95 (his rookie year), he played A LOT of LF – for some reason Bobby loved using Jose Oliva at 3rd.

by RainDelay on May 13, 2008 1:44 PM EDT   0 recs

oh wow, JOSE OLIVA. Was Chipper platooning with TONY TARASCO in left?

by bigjoe on May 13, 2008 4:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Nope..just Chipper. Dwight Smith, started the season in LF but was quickly moved to the bench.

by RainDelay on May 13, 2008 6:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Remember when Dwight Smith sang the national anthem?

by bigjoe on May 13, 2008 7:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok, maybe “A Lot” was over doing it, he played 15 games in LF, 4 in RF and 121 at Third.

by RainDelay on May 13, 2008 6:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Chipper.

I’d love to see Chipper chase .400 this year. Considering his lack of certain counting stat milestones, that accomplishment is the sort of almost trivial thing is sure to sway Hall of Fame voters. In my book, he’s the best 3B to ever play the game and a first ballot HoFer, .400 or not, but some people still feel that he’s not quite there yet.

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 13, 2008 6:19 PM EDT   0 recs

...ever? have you not looked at baseball history? he’s only 36. let his career finish before we start declaring him GOD OF THE WORLD.

by bigjoe on May 13, 2008 6:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Who You Got?

He’s one of 16 hitters in major league history with a career line of .300+/.400+/.500+. That’s hitters, period, not 3B. He’s been at or near the top of the game throughout his entire career, from coming in second for the NL Rookie of the Year award, to his MVP, to a World Series ring, to Gold Glove caliber defense at the hot corner last season, to battling with .400 early this year… His numbers compare favorably to the likes of Mike Schmitt, George Brett, Eddie Mathews, Wade Boggs, Brooks Robinson… you name them, he’s got them beat.

So, here’s my question: have YOU not looked at baseball history? Take a good look, make up your mind and get back to me when you find someone better.

P.S.: I didn’t declare him GOD OF THE WORLD, just the best third baseman to ever play the game. And now I backed it up; how ‘bout you?

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 13, 2008 9:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Touche…

by beeniez on May 13, 2008 9:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Chipper Jones is not a great third baseman. He’s a great hitter that happens to play third base fof 3/4 of his career.

by bigjoe on May 13, 2008 10:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

From what I've seen of him

over the past 15 years, he is absolutely a great third-baseman. Ejruiz has already provided a look at how Chipper compares to other great third-baseman in offensive statistics. Lets look at how he compares at the position defensively: Chipper has a career fielding percentage of 0.955 at 3rd base. This compares well to players like Mike Schmidt (0.955), George Brett (0.951), Wade Boggs (0.962), Ron Santo (0.954), Pie Traynor (0.947), although he gets beat-out pretty good by the liikes of Brooks Robinson (0.971). All of these folks were considered “good third baseman,” and I myself would happily place Chipper in such company.

Why you gotta be so down on Chipper, anyway? Did he touch you in your naughty place or something?

by Chopaholic on May 14, 2008 8:46 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Chipper

is not God. Pujols is.

by jug on May 14, 2008 12:14 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And if you don't believe it...

just ask him (meaning either one)!

by BBFAN46 on May 15, 2008 7:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A question, not a debate

When someone ever says “_ is a good name of position,” are they making these statements based on offensive output or defensive production?

I’m not trying to start a debate, because I don’t have enough time to research out everything to respond with, but I’m just curious:

In a debate over an offensive statistic, when it comes to praising a baseball player’s offensive production, is mentioning fielding position even relevant? IMO, I find it kind of irrelevant. If baseball were like football and there were different units for batting and fielding, I would have a batting lineup of speedsters, high OBP and sluggers, it would be like Ichiro, Rollins, Jones, Pujols, Berkman, etc, etc… and a fielding unit of Zimmerman, Tulowitzki, Hudson, Lee, etc. Clearly when the game is on defense, there are often players we’d rather see doing that than the hitting, regardless of how sufficient our own favorites might be.

I find that there is a constant debate about Chipper Jones because of his fielding, where he stands as the all time 3Bs, but in a debate focused on an offensive category like BA, it brings little point to throw in fielding stats, or why he is a lacking 3B. Personally, I feel that Chipper is sufficient at holding his own at 3B; he’s no Ryan Zimmerman (mostly due to age), but he’s certainly no error machine like guys like Alex Rodriguez and Miguel Cabrera have shown (but would you want those guys batting in your lineup?)

Chipper Jones, is flat out, one of the finest hitters the game has ever seen, and in this particular debate, should really be all that matters.

one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males

by royhobbs on May 14, 2008 9:34 AM EDT   0 recs

Interesting read…in the comments section someone brings up the BP article about Chipper. It’s funny b/c the metrics they used said Chip was a below average 3B. Very hard to judge defense.

by Smoltz's Beard on May 15, 2008 12:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

There isn’t really a good defensive metric out there yet, the one that’s prolly the best of the lot (IMO) is John Dewan’s +/- fielding metric.

by RainDelay on May 15, 2008 5:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Is there a website where you can browse these fielding metrics?

by Smoltz's Beard on May 15, 2008 5:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It’s gonna cost ya…

Bill James Online

Pretty cheep subscription price IMO. I signed up for it the day it launched.

by RainDelay on May 15, 2008 9:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, stats are nice...

but like all number games, you can make them say what you want. The real question is has Chipper been a positive or negative to the team (since I believe this is still a team sport). The answer can only be an overwhelming “Yes”, unlike the number of other players with “great potential” who have come and gone over the years.

by BBFAN46 on May 16, 2008 8:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Is This What You're Talking About?
But what about the guy who was already the fifth-ranked third baseman of all time in 2003? Well, Schell published a little update to his book that incorporated the 2004 season. In that chapter, he projected that Chipper Jones would finish around 22nd overall, making him the third-best third baseman of all time.

However, Jones continues to defy Father Time and, as I type, he’s batting .415/.475/.683. Is it possible that he will pass Schmidt and Mathews? Make a note: The best-hitting third baseman of all time might be playing in Atlanta right now.

I honestly can’t tell if your “crow” comment is serious (as in, you admit you were wrong) or sarcastic (as in, you’re trying to end the argument in your favor with this) because you seem to be the kind that would look at the graph and now realize that it stopped in 2003. I maintain, Chipper is the best 3B to ever play the game and this article, as reflected in the secton I quoted, does nothing to change my opinion.

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 16, 2008 4:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

no, my crow is serious. i attributed it to homerism at first, but then i looked at the numbers and realized “wow, these older 3Bs aren’t nearly as good as i thought”

by bigjoe on May 16, 2008 6:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

FOR ESPN INSIDERS, YOU CAN CONTINUE TO WATCH ME BE PROVED HORRIBLY WRONG!!!

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=3398906

by bigjoe on May 16, 2008 7:18 PM EDT   0 recs

Hahaha.

Welcome to the club. I’m the President of Being Horribly Wrong and I’ll be giving you your tour around our Joe Morgan Clubhouse…

Seriously though, I know I was a jerk about this (and some other stuff), but I don’t do it because I like being right or making things about me. Chipper just doesn’t get the credit he deserves (much like the Braves as a whole) for whatever reason and it really upsets me. The truth is that by some measures (like OPS+) Schmidt was a marginally superior hitter, but I’ll stick to my Brave. I apologize if I was rude, because you’re one of the good people around this site. Cheers!

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 16, 2008 8:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

my favorite line from that piece.....
I’ve been asked a few times, just in the past year or so, if Chipper Jones is a Hall of Famer. The fact that he’s hitting .418 this season may have changed a lot of minds, but even before this season the question shouldn’t have been whether or not Chipper’s a Hall of Famer. Rather, the question should have been this: How many Hall of Fame third basemen couldn’t carry Chipper’s sweaty jock strap?

Based on what we’ve seen, I’m going to guess the answer is “most of them.”

That goes for active third basemen as well, Mets fans. So go ahead and vote David Wright into the All-Star game. Real baseball fans know who the best player is.

by sddbaker on May 17, 2008 4:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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