Time to start over
I think it's pretty obvious that we are not built to win the league or even make the playoffs, with everyone getting injured, our starting pitching that was supposed to be a strength looking pretty bad, the lack of timely hitting, and the fact we can't buy a road win. So the next question is how to right the ship. As I look over the roster I am struggling to find a superstar player. Chipper is one of the best when healthy, but he is 36. Smoltz and Glavine, both great pitchers and two of the best at one time, are on the wrong side of any age. Hudson is a good #2 starter, but is getting older. Texiera is a hired gun and will go to the biggest paycheck i.e. yankees. Frenchy and McCann while good young players are not developing with the urgency that is needed from them. Though McCann is batting .309/6/17 he is somewhat streaky as is Francoeur. Escobar is a better than good but not great SS. As far as the other players on the team they all have good qualities but are not all-star caliber players or even close. So as we age into oblivion I suggest that we look further into the future than even I want to. I propose that we overhaul the entire team and trade the aforementioned players for multiple minor league talent. We could seriously stock pile and see a new generation of Braves in 2-3 yrs. with a higher probability to winning a WS than right now. I love the Braves and Smoltz, Jones, Glavine, and the other players but I would like to see us win another WS than continue not making the playoffs. This is almost as bad as watching Jordan with the Wizards. Now, if you were GM and in the position the Braves are in now, how would you change it. As well as, who would you trade and not trade for future talent. I'd like to know who else thinks we should start from scratch.
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So many things wrong in this post...
...don’t have time to address all of them while at work. Most important would be the fact that we still have 125 games left in the season, not including the one going on right now.
The Astros went 48-26 in the 2nd half of ‘04 and went on to beat our ass in the NLDS…in case you forgot.
by Smoltz's Beard on May 12, 2008 4:17 PM EDT 0 recs
I'm with you...
...this post makes it sound like we’re the Mariners, Reds, Nationals etc. The fact he’s calling for just folding up the chairs and calling it a season is beyond laughable.
by RainDelay on
May 12, 2008 4:33 PM EDT
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I totally agree...
but I’m also convinced that Wren still talks to everyone a lot and wouldn’t be too surprised to see some trade action mid-season if things don’t improve; especially if he can pick up some better starters. Once the 3 bullpens guys get healthy, there will be some “extras” there as well. Fortunately, even though we have some “extra” infielders in the high minors, there are also a few good ones in the lower levels, so Wren also has them as an option if his pitching needs more help (which I am of the opinion that it does). If we stay close all year and he doesn’t make any moves, he will still have some cash for next year’s FAs.
by BBFAN46 on
May 15, 2008 7:54 AM EDT
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Um...?
Funny, a lot of experts picked the Braves to win the World Series this year! If it’s obvious that we’re not a playoff team, the experts sure haven’t figured that out yet.
by skipcaray on May 12, 2008 6:07 PM EDT 0 recs
I sweat to Pujols...
...you people come out of the woodwork only to complain.
I know some of you people don’t buy it (math and science bad!), but based on our runs scored and runs allowed our Pythagorean W-L record was 22-13 coming into today. Imagine that!
by Smoltz's Beard on
May 12, 2008 6:33 PM EDT
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Numbers, shmumbers. Our pitching is terrible. Our offense is dreadful. We’ll be lucky to win 70 games.
by bigjoe on
May 12, 2008 7:04 PM EDT
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Yeah god forbid you maybe learn something…fail math maybe? And if you don’t like ‘all these new fangled’ numbers. Maybe you and Joe Morgan can go hang out.
by RainDelay on
May 12, 2008 9:27 PM EDT
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Why don’t you go dig a hole and burn some wood…
by Smoltz's Beard on
May 13, 2008 9:05 AM EDT
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I only heard...
Rosenthal pick the Braves. If there were any others, they are minor players in the category. I agree we are not playing like a playoff team right now, but we’re only 2 down in the Lost column, so the others aren’t exactly knocking the cover off the ball or twirling shutouts either. Relax, enjoy!
by BBFAN46 on
May 15, 2008 7:57 AM EDT
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We’re 2 games above .500 in the middle of May.
Blow it all up, we’re finished.
by bigjoe on May 12, 2008 6:20 PM EDT 0 recs
Yeah, screw it.
I’m going to follow a team with a better shot at making the playoffs…GO RED SOX!
by jug on May 12, 2008 8:09 PM EDT 0 recs
guess
nobody found my go Sox cheer amusing…
Here’s the thing. I’m a fan. I’m pretty happy being a fan, because I can honestly say that since I’ve been following the Braves back around ‘90-’91 when they climbed out of the cellar, they have put the best team on the field they possibly good. I trusted Schuerholz, and now I trust Wren, to make the best moves he can to get us into the playoffs and get us back into the WS. I trust Bobby to manage the team, even if he plays matchups and goes through 8 relievers and then puts in Reitsop to close the game. If I didn’t trust them, or believe in them, why would I bother being a fan?
I also believe that this team is playing as hard as they can, but things maybe just haven’t quite clicked on all cylinders just yet. I think the fact that we are “old” has been addressed. We really aren’t. Somebody said our pitching is terrible. I say “O rly?” As of May 12th, who had given up the fewest ERs? Atlanta, 127 with Oakland at 128 and Cleveland 132. Our ERA is 3.49, which is 2nd to Oakland at 3.29. We are 9th in SOs, 18th in most walks, tied for 30th in HRs allowed. We’re tied for 2nd in lowest WHIP 1.24 with Arizona, 4th in OBA .311, 2nd in SLG .346, and 1st in AVG .230. So, actually, I’d say our pitching ain’t too bad. ‘Beard probably has better stats than that, but that is enough for me.
Don’t get me wrong, I can be cynical as the next guy (“Oh great, Bobby’s throwing in the Towel…”), but I also am not giving up before the middle of May. Making trades and getting younger is good if you need to, but it isn’t everything. I also am not concerned about next year just yet or beyond if it comes at the expense of this season.
Anyway, not trying to rant or anything like that. And everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I don’t really feel like I or anybody else should be defending a this team when we all are fans.
by jug on
May 13, 2008 11:03 AM EDT
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I just noticed something: this guy is perfectly content with keeping Mr 750 in the lineup and paying him oodles of money. I know some people just can’t get his rookie year out of their heads, but we need to face facts: unless Jeff Francoeur learns to take a pitch, he’s nothing more than a league average (at best) outfielder with a good arm.
by bigjoe on May 12, 2008 8:42 PM EDT 0 recs
Jordan in Washington??
Dude, I was living up there when that was happening. There is nothing worse than that. Horrible analogy.
Braves Baseball = Always putting together a competitive team, while nurturing the minor leagues and ensuring that there is talent / trading chips. Often mixing a blend of youngsters as well as veterans, but always keeping the door ajar for the next young good talent waiting in the wings, whether it be progression, injury, or just plain natural selection.
Look, I get that a lot of us bitch and complain, but I think I can speak for a lot of us by saying that we’re pretty content with what we’ve got right now – we just want them to perform to the level that we expect them to, and hope they stay healthy.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on May 12, 2008 9:25 PM EDT 0 recs
Wow I am so tired of reading posts calling our team old. We have the second youngest starting 8 in baseball, and that is a fact. I even took into account all the oldest players that might start on a given day. Yeah still the youngest starting 8. We have three pitchers who are old, true and guess what all three of them will be gone at the end of the season and we have capable replacements for at least two of them and have tons of money coming off the books next year.
by yondaime4 on May 12, 2008 10:19 PM EDT 0 recs
Add for now and future
Trade B. Lillibridge, B. Jones, B. Boyer, and T. Flowers to BAL for D. Cabrera (who looks to be turning the corner and is still 26) and L. Scott. Trade M. Kotsay, C. Johnson, and W. Ohman to CHC for R. Hill and K. Hart (Hill is 28 and has had some success though some minor control problems so far this year, while Hart is 25 and can start or relieve). Trade B. Pena, T. Redmond, and S. Evarts to CIN for R. Freel and J. Affeldt. Platoon Freel and Blanco in center batting leadoff and Scott and Diaz in left. Drop KJ to the 7 hole behind Francoeur. Rotation is improved, lineup is deeper, have only slightly expanded payroll, we are younger, and havent given up our best prospects, What do you think?
by josh912 on May 13, 2008 12:36 AM EDT 0 recs
That...
...I want some of the drugs you’re on. This is about as ridiculous as the original poster….
by RainDelay on
May 13, 2008 2:08 AM EDT
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well...
the drug would be relief for the summer from law school. but whats so ridiculous?
by josh912 on
May 13, 2008 2:42 AM EDT
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What I Think.
I appreciate the time you took to think up all those trades, but they just don’t make much sense to me. It’s like you copy/pasted something you tried on Baseball Mogul, because that just doesn’t look like anything anyone of those teams involved is likely to do. Sorry buddy, that just doesn’t pass the common sense test.
Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!
by ejruiz on
May 13, 2008 12:45 PM EDT
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Baseball Mogul? PFFFFFtttt. It Out of the Park Baseball all the way man. I mean I can make an ENTIRE world of baseball on that one.
by yondaime4 on
May 13, 2008 6:00 PM EDT
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really good series I haven’t picked it up in a couple seasons but 2006 was amazing. so much customization.
by yondaime4 on
May 13, 2008 11:30 PM EDT
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Oi...
I agree that we need to get younger moving forwward, especially in the pitching staff, but those trades don’t make any sense.
Why in the world would the Cubs give us Rich Hill for Kotsay, Ohman and that Johnson? They just traded Ohman to us, Kotsay is old and Hill is a younger, solid lefty starter, which we know don’t grow on trees.
You want us to give Baltimore our best infield prospect, one of our top outfield prospects and our power hitting first base prospect for Daniel Cabrera?
by Prelude rL on May 13, 2008 3:11 AM EDT 0 recs
well...
chicago is looking to win now and in need of a centerfielder who can either: A) Hit between Lee and Ramirez or B) hit second and allow Fukudome to hit between Lee and Ramirez. And the cubs have been looking for bullpen help and ohman is capable. it fills a need for both teams. hill has been struggling with control anyway and he has been sent down to AAA once already. obviously they dont view him as a pivotal player. look at daniel cabreras numbers and see how he stacks up. he is probably the best pitcher that will come available. none of the guys i proposed giving up is an allstar talent minus possibly lillibridge. those were just off the top of my head anyway but they are more realistic than your assuming
by josh912 on
May 13, 2008 3:43 AM EDT
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No worries, Chicago is going to sign Jim Edmonds.
Also, you’re on one hell of a drug if you think the Braves are trading 10 players for 6, one of which is RYAN FREEL.
by bigjoe on
May 13, 2008 9:39 AM EDT
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SHUT IT!!!
The proposed changes – getting younger, getting talent – uhh, didnt we do that last year? Arent we perpetually doing that? Dont we consistently have a huge pool of talent within our farm system anyway? Didnt we shop off Salty who sucks for return?
This is early panic. Calm down.
by traphicg on May 13, 2008 12:02 PM EDT 0 recs
Really?
You don’t see young superstars on this team? Yunel is 25 and he’s been the fourth best shortstop in all of baseball this season. Heap is 24 and he’s currently the second best catcher at the plate. Despite his struggles so far this year, Kelly’s the 7th best 2B in MLB today and he’s only 26 years old. Oh, and by the way, every one of those three would be the top player at their respective positions if they played in the American League. Get your head out of your ass and do a little research before shooting off your mouth with this ridiculous, pesimistic nonsense. I’m sick and tired of this bullshit, people! If the Braves NEED to do anything to help their franchise, it’s to retool their fanbase.
Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!
by ejruiz on May 13, 2008 12:41 PM EDT 0 recs
wow
didn’t think I would hit that nerve to set off some of you like that. I reiterate that I love the Braves and want to see us win it all. I also love all the players for the most part, other than Hampton, who I think should give some money back. However, some may have overlooked that I was curious to see what some of you would do if you were GM. As for ejruiz, I agree that McCann is a good catcher, he just tends to be streaky, i never said he sucked. Johnson is a decent 2B, but looking at the 2B out there and bragging that he is the 7th best isn’t helping your argument. Yunel is better than good but not of the Ramirez, Reyes, young Arod, young Jeter caliber. Don’t get me wrong I am not throwing in the towel, b/c we can still turn things around especially if we get healthy and stay that way. But look at the recent years and how we fell apart b/c of injuries. Our stars are getting older hence the injuries. However, please don’t get mad and go off on me or other posters b/c of something they or I say. Honestly, if you don’t agree with something you should be able to give your opinion in a mature, professional manner.
by Shaggy3391 on May 13, 2008 1:32 PM EDT 0 recs
Why Does...
....Yunel have to be Han-Ram, Reyes or Jeter? Why can’t Yunel be Yunel? I’ll never understand that line of thinking. Why can’t we be happy that Yunel is Yunel, he’s young and going to get a lot better before it’s all said and done.
As far as the whole “If you were GM”, I hate that kinda stuff. I like to call it “Rosterbation”....
by RainDelay on
May 13, 2008 1:47 PM EDT
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Because...
...too many fans rely on SportsCenter to provide them with information. Which is why Reyes and Jeter are always the first two SS mentioned, followed by guys like Rollins and O-Cab. It’s shocking that Hanley Ramirez is just now making a name for himself. It’s not like he won the ROY with a .833 OPS at the SS position. Or followed it up by going 29/51 with a .948 OPS. Oh wait…
What’s really funny is that not only does Yunel has the 4th best OPS among SS this season…but during his first season in the majors with 300+ PAs, Yunel’s OPS (.837) was higher than Jeter’s (.800), Hanley’s (.833), Rollins (.743), Reyes (.687), O. Cabrera’s (.696), M. Young (.699)...need I go on? Not to mention that he’s a far better defensive SS than all of those mentioned above, aside from maybe Reyes and Rollins.
by Smoltz's Beard on
May 13, 2008 3:39 PM EDT
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I understand what you’re saying, but I just don’t give a shit about the “World Wide Leader”. Maybe that’s the problem, so many casual fans are forced fed bullshit from them.
by RainDelay on
May 13, 2008 6:44 PM EDT
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...that’s kind of the point I was getting at.
by Smoltz's Beard on
May 13, 2008 9:53 PM EDT
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Here You Go.
- Hudson is not a #2 starter, he’s an ace; I say that not because I’m a fan or because I feel like it, but because I looked it up and he’s 6th in WHIP and 14th in ERA among all starters this season. He finished last year 14th in ERA and tied for 21st in WHIP, which would also profile him as an ace. He doesn’t seem to be slowing down with age at all, but rather improving over his time in Atlanta.
- McCann was the best catcher at the plate in 2006, had a bit of a sophomore slump last year (possibly due to nagging injuries), but is now third in OPS this season. He’s not an exceptional backstop, but he’s handled a pitching staff that currently ranks second in all of baseball in ERA and third in WHIP. How about that? So much for your assertion that we’re doomed because of lousy pitching due to injuries. That’s about as sound as refusing to acknowledge that McCann, a soon-to-be deserving three-time All-Star isn’t a star at all.
- Yunel, now playing his first full season in the majors, is behind only Furcal (30 years old and in a contract year), Tejada (at least 33 and playing in Houston) and Hanley Ramirez (the best hitting shortstop since A-Rod moved to 3B) in OPS. In case you missed it, that means he’s out-hitting Reyes and, just so you know, his career OPS (.839) is easily within reach of Jeter’s (.849) and Escobar has yet to hit his prime. Yunel’s not a young star?
- Kelly has had a lousy start to the season, yet he is still the 7th best 2B at the dish. He has really struggled, yet 24 teams out there would find him an upgrade over the guy they’re currently starting at his position. He’s not a superstar, but he has a legit chance to emerge as an All-Star because of his performance relative to his position. He’s better than he’s shown so far this year and time will tell.
- We’re 19-18… that puts us 3.5 GB at the moment… in mid-May. Chill the fuck out, man! No need to blow it up, especially in the manner in which you propose. You want to trade some of the best young, cheap players in baseball for prospects because you think we’re done with 125 games left to play. Your player assessment is way off and I’ve proven as much. You’re thinking irrationally and I’m fed up with these melodramatic, ridiculously premature FanPosts full of gloom and doom. If you’re a fan, act like one. That doesn’t mean support your team blindly, but it does mean know what you’re talking about before you say it, back it up with fact and ground yourself in the reality of the sport. I apologize if this is not mature or professional, but I just didn’t see much of either in your post.
Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!
by ejruiz on
May 13, 2008 3:29 PM EDT
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Re. Hudson: Don’t forget that his career winning percentage is 4th among active players. Ahead of Randy Johnson, Roy Halladay, Greg Maddux, Carlos Zambrano, Tom Glavine, Jake Peavy, Josh Beckett, CC Sabathia, Curt Schilling, etc, etc.
Wins aren’t the best measure of how good a pitcher is himself, but win % certainly shows you the pitchers that are capable of keeping their team in the game.
by Smoltz's Beard on
May 13, 2008 4:02 PM EDT
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Please…define “streaky” and please show some evidence to support your comment.
Also, how is being the 7th best 2B a bad thing? If I’m not mistaken there are 30 MLB teams, and even really basic math tells me that’s a hell of a lot better than what alot of teams throw out there.
by Smoltz's Beard on
May 13, 2008 3:41 PM EDT
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This is kind of fun
I’m finding out all kinds of cool shit about how great we really are. Suddenly all the 1 run losses don’t seem so bad. No…wait…yes they do. But still, I am serious about not really looking at the numbers to know how good we are. In fact, knowing this makes me believe that its a matter of time before everything clicks and we tear off a streak of winning 15 of 20 games or something like that.
Anyway, I do have to agree that all the doom and gloom is unnecessary and is viewing the team with blinders on to the fact that despite being 19-18 we are really good everywhere else and its only May. In actuality, I’d say we’ve done quite well to stay about .500 considering the injuries and “struggles” with offense.
by jug on May 13, 2008 4:11 PM EDT 0 recs
I feel the same way. I just have this premonition of us scoring like 8 runs a game in the hot summer months, and going batshit crazy all over the NL. A little extreme, perhaps, but when everyone in this lineup is healthy it’s possibly the best one in the NL.
And yes, we are 3.5 games beind the Marlins but there is no way in hell they are going to be in the thick of things come July. We should be up several games on our competition, but the fact that only 1 game separates us from the Mets and Phillies is good news considering our injuries.
by Smoltz's Beard on
May 13, 2008 4:40 PM EDT
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I always felt that when the weather warms up, things will get better. The Braves just aren’t a cold-weather team; they just aren’t. The best part is that if Chipper is like this now, imagine what he’s going to be like when the less dense, warmer air isn’t buoying the ball in the sky as much when he hits those towering fly balls. Same goes for all those warning track shots by guys like McCann and Johnson.
As for the Marlins, I’m not saying anything yet. Every year there is one of those teams… 2005 White Sox, 2006 Tigers, 2007 Brewers, etc, that have these good starts, hang around with a decent record, and all year long, people are always like “no way, no way…” regardless of the final outcome. Right now, we’ve got the Marlins, Rays, Astros, Cardinals and Twins supposedly playing over their heads right now. The real question is, which really aren’t playing over their heads, and are just a damn good team that secretly got their shit together?
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on
May 13, 2008 4:53 PM EDT
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BP just put out a great article about how the Fish are not the kind of team you just listed above. Really wish I could post the whole thing right here, but it ends with the following:
“The Marlins have played two-thirds of their schedule against teams with an EqA of .255 or below. They’ve played nearly half of their schedule against the three worst hitting teams in the league, the Nationals, Padres, and Brewers. They’ve played just five games against one of the top lineups in the league, all of them against the Braves. Obviously, that kind of imbalance will wash out over a full season, and when it does, the Marlins will be giving up a lot more runs. They have neither the pitching nor the defense to prevent the opposition.
The Marlins aren’t 23-14 because of young players coming together with a great attitude under a young manager and all that other mainstream nonsense. They’re 23-14 because they had Jim Boeheim draw up the schedule. Unfortunately, being a college basketball coach, Jim stopped around 40 games, and they now have another 125 games to go, and those games will involve teams such as the Cubs, Diamondbacks, and Cardinals, three of the four NL teams with at least 20 third-order wins, as well as a lot more games with the Braves and Mets. Starting next Tuesday, the Marlins play the Diamondbacks, Giants, Mets, Phillies, Braves, Reds, Phillies, and Rays. Not only will they not be in first place at the end of that stretch, they probably won’t be above .500. The fast start is an artifice of weak competition, and will be exposed as such shortly.”
by Smoltz's Beard on
May 13, 2008 5:07 PM EDT
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Marlins are also 7-3 in 1-run games, and 8-1 against the Nationals this year.
(Why in fuck are we losing to the Nationals!?)
by Smoltz's Beard on
May 13, 2008 5:09 PM EDT
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Logically
That all makes perfect sense, and in all likelihood stands a good chance at being correct.
But we’ve all seen stranger things in sports, and as we all know, anything is possible.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on
May 13, 2008 5:16 PM EDT
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Oh yeah
Don’t anyone dare take that as me being somewhat favored to the Marlins.
F* the marlins.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on
May 13, 2008 5:17 PM EDT
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All I know is I love it when someone uses the phrase “batshit crazy”
by yondaime4 on
May 13, 2008 7:01 PM EDT
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Yes, the baserunners are there...
we’re just not getting them all the way around right now; especially Tex and Frenchy. If they can both get hot and the starters can go a little deeper, there’s no reason to panic now.
by BBFAN46 on
May 15, 2008 8:04 AM EDT
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1 run wins
Those usually peter off a bit, or at least even out. The bad teams find a way to lose those, the good ones find a way to win them. I think our Braves are just figuring things out again – i mean, the yanks lost their two best SPs and are in the toilet bowl straight up. We were picked to win it all by a bunch of people, and lost everyone to injuries, and we’re still doing ok.
I agree with Jug the most.
by traphicg on May 13, 2008 4:15 PM EDT 0 recs
Everything...
will be okay. I really believe that these things even out over the course of a season, and if we are getting all the bad now, then we will experience a lot of good things later. I think I would be a lot more worried if we had 11 eight-run losses. The usual culprit in one run losses is a bad bullpen, and all complaining aside, ours has not been that bad. Also, it will be getting even better within the next few weeks, with Smoltz, Soriano, and hopefully Gonzo coming back. So what is the reason for the 1 run losses, and the losses on the road? I think it is a combination of some failure to execute the basics (which can be improved on), some bad weather, and some plain old bad luck.
Go Bravos!
by sddbaker on May 14, 2008 2:47 PM EDT 0 recs










