Would you trade John Smoltz for Brandon Webb?
by yondaime4 on Apr 21, 2008 1:16 AM EDT
101 comments
More polarizing trade propositions! And I'll stick with the Diamondbacks for this one as well. The title speaks for itself. Would you do the deal if you were the Braves GM and the deal was offered to you? I would say the only stipulation is that money isn't an issue, but since Smoltz actually makes more than Webb, it really isn't an issue.
Ok so just remember Webb has been a very good pitcher since he debuted in the league never posting and ERA above 3.59 and he is the owner of the 2006 Cy Young. Smoltz is still a very good pitcher and has only recently shown signs of slowing down. Is it possible his shoulder stiffness is a permanent ailment and he may never be able to go more than 5 or six innings again? Or will he bounce back like he did last year and throw 200+ innings again this year? Discuss and debate!
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id take
webb in a heartbeat. age is the only factor in my mind. smoltz 12 years ago? i dont know. but def webb right now.
by chipper4mvp10 on Apr 21, 2008 2:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Somewhat of a big yawner...
Why would Arizona even be thinking about it?....most runs scored…least given up….to date
by OntheGo on Apr 21, 2008 2:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In a flash...
... Webb is only 28 years old. Smoltz is 40. On that basis alone, I make the deal.
However, I think a Smoltz-for-Webb deal is less likely to happen than a Francoeur-for-Upton deal.
-sdp-
by sdp on Apr 21, 2008 7:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Smoltz may be getting up there, but he’s still pitching better than at any point in his career, except maybe ‘96. And if weren’t for all of the blown saves in 2006, it would have been Smoltz winning the Cy Young instead of Webb.
And while Webb has the obvious upside of youth, I can’t imagine the intangible effects to the team and the fans from trading away the guy that pretty much embodies the Braves organization.
Section 435 - A Braves blog. From the upper deck at Turner Field.
by 6stringbeliever on Apr 21, 2008 8:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
fun but senseless
There’s no way Arizona would trade Brandon Web for John Smoltz.
by pigdog on Apr 21, 2008 8:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Difficult decision
Webb is the future – a guy with a Cy Young, tremendous stamina, a filthy, filthy sinker, and still not even in his prime.
Smoltz is the Braves, a hero, an icon, and a pillar to the Atlanta community as well. He’s still going strong, and I firmly agree with the notion that he definitely had a second Cy Young blown for him by the 2006 bullpen. His stuff is still great, although he’s showing the natural progression of age.
From a “putting the team first” mentality, I’d take Webb in a heartbeat. But trading away John Smoltz would be a devastating blow in so many other ways. We all know how good Webb is, but wonder how he would have to feel, to have the responsibility of Smoltz’s departure on his shoulders, as well as his shadow to play under?
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on Apr 21, 2008 9:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know it's horrible thinking...
I would keep Smoltz. Smoltz should and will retire as a lifelong Brave. I have to think really hard to remember a day when he wasn’t a Brave, I was six in 1987! He’s a part of this team for as long as he wants to be in my book. For all the selfish reasons I’d stick with him.
The idea of trading Smoltz is blasphemy!!!
-- Kyle
The Tomahawk
by jameskm03 on Apr 21, 2008 9:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but...
This is tough. On the one had you are right, Smoltz = Braves. But on the other, B. Webb could have 3 more Cy Young’s in him, whereas Smoltz may not even have 3 more seasons. If this trade were any other pitcher, Hudson included, I would take it. But Smoltz tugs at the heartstrings a little bit, making it hard.
I don’t know , I’d probably do it. Smoltz would still go in the HOF with a Braves cap, and we’d miss him, but our rotation would be improved for a few years. Unless, of course, Webb had the same fate as Mike Hampton. Then where would we be…
by jug on Apr 21, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Missing the point
Too many people miss the point of these.
It is sort of like the “if you had a million dollars, and didn’t have to work, what would you do,” question and the responding with “I would invest half of it in low risk mutual funds and then take the other half over to my friend Asadulah who works in securities…”
The point is to compare the players, the contracts, their contributions to the team, stats, etc. The easiest way to think about it is a one-to-one trade. It doesn’t matter how unlikely, or improbable, the trade is, you just pretend it is on the table.
Anyway, sorry for the rant.
by jug on Apr 21, 2008 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW
If I had a million dollars, I would do two chicks at once.
by jug on Apr 21, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you wouldn’t need a million dollars to do two chicks at once.
by yondaime4 on Apr 21, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s about what it would take to get two chicks to double up on a guy like me.
by jug on Apr 21, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
for any and all Office Space references
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the worst idea I’ve ever heard in my life…
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 21, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Webby to ATLANTA!
Hey gang, glad to be involved! I am Brandon’s agent, Jonathan Maurer, msmsports.net and while I think John Smoltz is a LEGEND in Atlanta and will always be one of the best, Webby LOVES to pitch in Atlanta! Brandon has “three years left w/ AZ” (‘08, ‘09, option in 2010). While Brandon LOVES AZ and hopes to bring the World Series back to the Valley, the D-backs brass and Brandon will have to agree on “fair value” in the next 12 months. If we don’t come to an “agreement,” Webb COULD be on the block after this season. Orlando Hudson is a premier 2B, but he turned down a contract extension and now almost assuredly will be gone from AZ after 2008. Brandon would command, in many opinions, the highest free agent contract ever given to a pitcher if he becomes a free agent after 2010. THAT IS NOT WHAT MOTIVATES BRANDON, but getting a “fair” deal IS important! He still calls Eastern KY his home and if you were to meet him out at the local tavern, he would hang out, buy you a beer and talk baseball all night. He is an “everyday guy” who happens to throw the heck out of a baseball. He WOULD fit with the Atlanta clubhouse, handsdown! Just one stat to throw at everyone…. Since the beginning of the 2006 seasons, Webb is 38-18 with a 2.34 ERA and a major league-high 500 1/3 innings.
by agentmon on Apr 21, 2008 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
He posts at the ‘Pit from time to time.
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From a DBacks perspective
B-Dub is THE face of the franchise to the fans who know the team. I think everyone would be upset to see Brandon go anywhere but here. If he gets to free agency and commands a large contract then pay the man. He’s slowly becoming the most dominant pitcher in baseball. I would be upset to see Brandon in any other jersey but a Diamondbacks one at any point in the rest of his career. He is the leader of this team and the personality and humbleness that one could only hope for in a superstar. I would venture to say that Webb would lose the respect that he commands if he were to turn his back on the team that made him the man he is today and vise versa. You’ve got to remember he was nearly out of baseball and the organization kept with him. He owes us as much as we owe him.
So in summation, NO! Webb is the man and he’s our man.
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 21, 2008 1:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hello, friendly Braves fans;
I know this question is directed at Braves fans, but as an Arizona fan, I just have to say—not on your life. There is NO WAY we’d make that trade. Smoltz is a good pitcher, but Webby is something else…
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As you see...
...most of us seem to agree.
But, I think the question takes on a different perspective if you are a D-backs fan. Braves fans have to consider Smoltz as a legend, while you guys would just think of him as an old guy with a Cy Young award, 200+ wins, and 150+ SVs. So, I would venture to guess not one D-back fan would want this trade, just guessing.
As I said, we have to consider trading a guy who embodies Braves baseball, a legend, an ace who time has started catching up with and is now in the golden years of his career. Much tougher decision for us.
Thanks for you input though.
by jug on Apr 21, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I know the question was intended at Braves fans specifically for that reason, because it’s MORE than just about the numbers for you folks….
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
Smoltz is a “good pitcher”? Are you sure you’re not a Mets fan?
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 21, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing pitcher years ago
good now. I hate saying that but he’s a Randy Johnson type now. The best when he’s on, but not a guarantee every start like B-Dub is now.
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 21, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you do...
...even a minute’s worth of research before you made that statement? I’m guessing no. I’ll go ahead and compare the last 3 years of the two starters based on the only things a pitcher can really can control: K, BB, HR.
Smoltz: 7.78 K/9, 2.09 BB/9, .80 HR/9
Webb: 6.99 K/9, 2.33 BB/9, .62 HR/9
Smoltz bested Webb in two of the categories, while averaging 222 IP each year. That’s fantastic considering Webb averaged only 11 extra innings each year being…what…12 years younger than Smoltz?
Don’t get me wrong…Webb is the definition of an ace. But when people throw around the term “good pitcher” and “John Smoltz” in the same sentence without bothering to do any research…it really boils my blood. In other news…you’re completely wrong.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 21, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa whoa whoa
put down your tomahawk, Beard. I’ve never heard of anyone flipping out because someone described one of their team’s players as “a good pitcher”.
Comparing FIP between Webby and Smoltz is somewhat meaningless. Webby is a sinkerball pitcher, so BY DEFINITION, his FIP numbers are going to look worse, while Smoltz is much more of a strikeout artist. Webb’s bread and butter is the groundball out. Remember, also, that Chase is a MUCH easier park to hit HRs in than Turner, making Webb’s edge in HR/9 even more impressive.
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there’s a difference between saying someone is “good” and saying they are “something else…” and a “guarantee every start”.
And you know what is really meaningless? Bringing up a groundball out, when once the pitch leaves the pitcher’s hand he is no longer in control of the outcome. There’s 8 other people on the field who can affect it good or bad, unlike a strikeout.
I’m not here to take Webb down a peg. He’s great…I’m still kicking myself for not picking him in my big money fantasy baseball league in the 5th round. But you guys are talking like he’s on an entire other tier, when in reality they’re not. Even today.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 21, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hold up
that’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m just getting at that Smoltz occasionally will implode. Once or twice a year. I can’t remember the last time Webb did such. I wasn’t in any way taking a shot at Smoltz or saying he’s worse in any way, just that Webb’s consistency has priority in MY mind. Smoltz at age what 40?, is still a top ten pitcher when he’s on (so is Randy Johnson). Webb is a top 5 pitcher every day he marches out to the mound.
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh...
...I don’t know why I have to do this again. Your mind is obviously heavily jaded in order for you to say anything like that.
Smoltz was tied for 3rd last season with Penny and Carmona, behind only Peavy and Haren, with 28 quality starts last year. Webb was tied for 11th, along with Cain, Arroyo, Pettite, and Snell, with 22 quality starts last year.
Don’t like that? Smoltz was tied for 3rd, with Santana, with 24 QS in 2006…behind only Oswalt and Capuano (he certainly fell off). Webb was tied for 5th, along with 3 other guys, with 23.
You have to go back to 2005…where Webb posted 22 QS which tied him with 8 other people for 14th in the league. Smoltz was tied with 6 other people for 23rd in the league with 21 QS.
This season Webb has 4 QS already…which is tied for tops in the league with 7 other people. Smoltz only has 1 since he’s gone just 5 innings twice. But he’s only surrendered 1 ER in 16 IP this whole season. Which is legit.
So…I’d really appreciate it if you could show me some proof to back up your statement that Webb is so much more consistent.
(Took me less than 3 minutes to do this research)
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Small question
I’ll agree with you that Smoltz is more liable to implode nowadays than he used to be; afterall, he so called imploded against Philadelphia when we needed a win like no other to stay in the playoff hunt in September; and this is John Smoltz, one of the best at “must win” games.
But when it comes to receiving a losing decision, what’s the difference between imploding and giving up the go-ahead run? John Smoltz could give up 6 ER in 2/3 inning, receive the loss, or Brandon Webb gets outdueled by Jeff Francis and gives up 1 ER to fall behind, and receive the loss.
Yeah, I know that imploding taxes the bullpen should the starter be yanked, but when the day is over, both pitchers are still losers.
2005-2007 W-L
Smoltz – 44-24
Webb – 48-30
It’s a close comparison, but even with Smoltz’s occasional implosion, he’s still on a similar plateau with Webb. Smoltz’s fewer losses kinda cancels out Webb’s increase in wins, perhaps?
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on Apr 22, 2008 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense Roy...
...but W’s and L’s are just about the worst way to measure a pitcher. That’s why I brought up their respective K/9, BB/9, and HR/9 originally…because those are really the only thing a pitcher controls all by himself. But apparently it wasn’t good enough.
With W’s and L’s the pitcher has to count on his 8 fielders, not to mention whatever combination of relivers are marched out of the bullpen. You wouldn’t say Matt Cain was an awful pitcher last year because he was 7-16, b/c his peripheral stats were all much better indicators of his true talent (he looks like shit so far this year, however).
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm aware
Of the criticism of bringing up simply the W-L record, but let’s face it – it’s not a bad indicator of what all that really matters at the end of each day – winning baseball games.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on Apr 22, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true...
...but in a discussion based in a strictly pitcher vs. pitcher sense, they don’t hold much water.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wins and losses
aren’t a bad indicator. It is true that it shows little but it also shows the things that matter at the end of the day. I’m not checking any background on this stuff. I’m just going on what I see. I watch more Braves baseball (thanks to TBS rolls eyes) that I get to watch my DBacks. Maybe I’ve just tuned into the games where Smoltz just happens to struggle. I’m just going on my personal experiences, he struggles more than B-Dub in recent viewings.
I’m not shooting down Smoltz he’s still really good, I’m just stating Smoltz’s time is fading and Webb is just coming into his own. I don’t mean to offend anyone, please don’t take it that way.
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PS
I haven’t seen him throw this year
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to...
...go by what you perceive, than that is your prerogative. But you can’t expect to go on a public blog and state your case and not get a response, when the numbers cleary do not support your arguement.
I enjoy watching the game just as much as I enjoy understanding the game through the study of its statistics. And I’ll call bullshit when I feel like it is necessary.
No hard feelings of course.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's why I'm here
I love response. :-)
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love lamp
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re so wise. You’re like a miniature Buddha, covered in hair.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I ate your chocolate squirrel
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're missing out
Smoltz has been nothing short of dominant this year thus far.
I can’t speak for everyone else, but I don’t think you’re offending anyone, but you are on someone else’s turf – so be prepared for passionate fans defending their favorite players. And arguments here tend to turn into what feels like school courses; where if you can’t show your work, then it’s worth zero credit. It’s baseball managers – old and new school; some are statistical, some are emotional, and trying to find that fine line that makes the best mix.
Perception isn’t a horrific way to observe the game, and it’s how I often make my own statements. Often, I’m called out for BS, but I’ll defer, since I don’t wish to get into certain arguments, and/or spend a little time to defend. Stats just aren’t necessarily my thing.
SB, if I’m offending you, we’ll meet up the next time I’m up in DC for a Braves game, and I’ll buy you some Ben’s chili bowl or a beer or something.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on Apr 22, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for being 19
I’m a bit more old school in my player and team evaluation. numbers are nice, but they don’t say everything
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I feel like purely visual evidence cannot tell the entire story either.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also true
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...
...of course you’re not offending me. We on the same page, we just produce our arguements in different ways. The ends justify the means, or some crap like that
But I will take you up on the offer!
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another thing...
If Smoltz’s shoulder continues to limit him to 5 innings/game, does he go back to the pen? We could use him as a closer, although I realize it doesn’t help to have a closer if you’re down 18-1 in the 9th inning. I don’t know though, that could be worse on his arm, not having as much time to rest. He could be the first 200 W-200 SV guy?
Any thoughts? Just throwing this out here, might be stupid.
by jug on Apr 21, 2008 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...
...certain circles in baseball still believe that the notion of the “closer” only being used in the 9th inning is laughable. If you want a good read on that subject and countless others you need look no further than BP.
Sorry, don’t really have anything to add…just trying to plug a book that changed the way I think about the game.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 21, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh...
...here’s the link again: http://www.amazon.com/Baseball-Between-Numbers-Prospectus-Experts/dp/0465005969
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 21, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jug makes another good point
to the D-Backs fan. These “Would you trade” posts are for the Braves fans in us. From a logical stand point most people probably would trade a 29 year old cy young pitcher for a 40 year old guy with a bigger contract. But a lot of teams (arizona fans especially) probably can’t understand what it means to have a guy on your team who is the heart and soul of the team and has been for nearly 20 years.
Kind of like would you trade Dale Murphy for Jeff Parrett?
by yondaime4 on Apr 21, 2008 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just because
we’re a young franchise doesn’t mean we don’t understand things like that. The equivalent question would be to ask Dbacks fans, before last season, would we accept…. say, Alfonso Soriano straight up for Luis Gonzalez?
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably wouldn't have
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for the love of christ
I love John Smoltz. I really do. But he’ll have another 2 years, TOPS. Brandon Webb’s got at least 10. That about sums it up pretty well for me.
by bigjoe on Apr 21, 2008 6:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
D-backs fans
Again, I think it is interesting to have D-backs fans commenting on this! And I appreciate their respectfulness and class in their posts.
by jug on Apr 21, 2008 6:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This Just IN...
ESPN just found John Smoltz’s authentic birth certificate from the hall of records in Detroit and found John has been lying about his age since signing his first contract in 1985. He was actually born in 1969, not 1967, making him 38.
This changes everything for me. I say we keep Smoltz.
by jug on Apr 21, 2008 10:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is it true
that ESPN was going to ambush him with it until they discovered that he’s actually younger than previously thought? :-P
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would encourage everyone involved in this discussion
to watch the box score tomorrow (or the game, if you have MLB.TV or EI.) when Webb faces off against Zito. This guy is truly one of the top 3 or 5 pitchers in the game right now.
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 5:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Guy...
...we all know that Webb is good. No one is saying he is not. But you’re pumping him up like some baseball god, and saying Smoltz isn’t on his level…which is just childish and untrue.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you implying...
...that Brandon Webb is NOT a baseball god???
In all honesty, if we’re talking Smoltz in his prime, (not that he’s not a great pitcher now, but he’s only got a few years left, if that) I don’t know that I could choose between either of them. My point is that, given the choice, beyond the emotional aspect of Smoltz being a lifelong Brave and a real team player, based solely on the numbers, you’d have to be joking to take Smoltz over a 28 year old Brandon Webb— especially as his ERA is only going to improve by going to Turner.
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine...
...I voted for Webb is the poll thing on Sunday before I started arguing with any of you guys. I know that Webb is a great pitcher. And I know that he has more innings left in his arm than Smoltz does.
But you guys all casually imply that Smoltz is going into a downward trend, which is not true at all. He’s pitching as well today as he was during his “prime”. It’s not like he’s f-ing Mussina.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree he's not Mike Mussina
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Away Fans
Whenever things like this arise, I always cringe at the thought of internet flaming, especially between sports fans. It’s bad enough we have Braves fans arguing with other Braves fans, but throw in fans of other teams, and things tend to get ugly. That being said, I must commend the Arizona fans who came, voiced their opinions, and participated in discussion without being jerks about it.
The argument can go any way – Smoltz is not at Webb’s current level, Webb will never accomplish everything Smoltz has, etc, etc, and it’s safe to say that the majority would be happiest if this fantasy trade never happened, but for the sake of discussion, it’s admirable that we defend our team’s players so adamantly, but I personally try to stay off the road to hostility.
But it’s not like we’re talking about trading the farm for like, say, Kevin Millar. Oh, i kid.
Anyway- DbacksSkins – how’s that work out? Arizona and the Redskins? I’m a ‘Skins fan as well, and my reasoning is that the Nationals didn’t exist when I left DC; so I stand here a Braves fan. What’s your story?
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on Apr 22, 2008 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he grew up in DC
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks AJ
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do what I can
:-D
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
nice post.
Also, I think this type of discussion is what yondaime4 wanted by posted the question and poll. In the end it is pointless, but it is fun to deb
by jug on Apr 22, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gives us something to do
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As opposed to like y’know… working… or going to school… :-)
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on Apr 22, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in class right now
:-)
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same as you, basically.
I was born a ‘Skins fan, and will die a ‘Skins fan. (Unless they decide to go kill people in Darfur or something)
My first ever MLB game was at Fenway, but I never really got into the BoSawks while I was living in Lowell. I was living in Tucson when the Dbacks were formed.
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides...
...Webb’s facial hair sucks. End of discussion.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No
This is the end of the discussion – everyone leaves happy.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on Apr 22, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Confused.
Did you mean “touche” as in acknowledging a good response, or did you mean “tushy” as in the Yiddish-derived slang for Jamie Kotsay’s fine posterior?
by jug on Apr 22, 2008 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yiddish?
What is this, a Mets blog??
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 23, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jamie Kotsay?
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know it
She’s kinda popular around here.
Actually, tell me one place where she isn’t popular.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on Apr 22, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think I could get behind that.
(Pun intended)
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
got us there.
Smoltz is a man’s man. I’d like to think if he didn’t pitch he’d be a lumberjack
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You ever watch Deadliest Catch on the Discovery channel?
I like to think Smoltzy would be a crab fisherman like them.
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I think we're done here
Royhobbs has dropped the hammer and this conversation is finished. I enjoyed it while it lasted and you all were a lot of fun. I’m going to go back to where I belong and I hope we might see some of your faces over on the ‘pit in the future. I promise we won’t bite.
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
C'mon...
...it was the facial hair comment that really finished the discussion. Admit it.
But in all seriousness, I’ve been watching you guys alot on Extra Innings when the Braves aren’t playing. I’m very impressed with your team thus far. Don’t think anyone in else in the West has what it takes to hang with you guys, and I really mean that.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok so maybe I'm not leaving
Appreciate the compliment. So I guess one deserves another, I picked you guys as NL East Champs this year and I have money on this so of course I mean it.
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
Jamie Kotsay’s new official nickname is “The Hammer.” Now do we decide that conversations end whenever she is pictured?
by yondaime4 on Apr 22, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
The Marlins announcers wouldn’t be happy with that nickname, however.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 23, 2008 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question.....
Let me just say, that I’ve really enjoyed this friendly give-and-take between Dbacks and Braves fans. But I have a question. I quote:
More polarizing trade propositions! And I’ll stick with the Diamondbacks for this one as well.
May I inquire as to any other polarizing trade propositions you Braves fans have been talking about that involve the Dbacks??
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 24, 2008 9:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As long as it's on the front page
And I’m bored at work, it’s worth looking at.
A little while ago, the same question came up, offering Jeff Francoeur for Justin Upton. Like this one, most people said the same stuff, and it pretty much boiled down Upton being the hands-down pick, the D-Backs not making the trade even if Brian McCann and other prospects were thrown in as well, and a whole boatload of stats and arguments before it just kind of fizzled out.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on Apr 25, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah.
Yeah, that seems like a slightly easier pick, since there’s, I presume, less of an attachment to Frenchy than to Smoltz?
And, yeah. I think we’ll keep J-Up….
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 25, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a good argument until it turned into stats vs. loyalty. Upton is a statistical phenom with a massive ceiling, where as Francoeur is just an above-average, pretty decent player. There is a fierce loyalty to him as well, since he is a Georgia boy who grew up on the outskirts of Atlanta suburbia, and is essentially living out his dream.
Now a lot of people laughed at Francoeur for Upton straight-up, but I laughed at Francoeur/McCann/Prospects for Upton, because let’s face it, if Upton got hurt, the Braves would be screwed. And I always side with the notion that one great player cannot cover the same ground as several good ones can.
So if you already aren’t, truly appreciate the players you do have – clearly, your team is showcasing the envy of a lot of the league’s fans out there.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
by royhobbs on Apr 25, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many prospects were we talking?
Upton has no history of injury. We may be forced to trade him before his walk year, since he has a chance to command THE biggest FA contract in baseball HISTORY…. based on how his next few years go, obviously.
Were you opposed to the Teixiera (sp?) trade?
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 25, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Griffey Jr. also had no history of injury.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 25, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 25, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Attachment has...
...nothing to do with it. Upton has the skillset to be a much better player than Francoeur. Webb, despite what you want to believe, does not have the skillset to be that much better than Smoltz.
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 25, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Webb...
...is also MUCH younger than Smoltz, and has A LOT more left in him.
Not quite sure why we’re back to the Smoltz/Webb debate, but just for the record, in his entire illustrious career, Smoltz’s ERA is 3.25. Webb’s is 3.20; that is, despite Brandon Webb pitching in the park with the second highest batter’s advantage (besides Coors). Jim, at the ‘Pit, also pointed out that Smoltz’s ERA+ in 2006 and 2007 were 127 and 137, respectively; while Webb’s were 152 and 156 for the same years.
"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."
by DbacksSkins on Apr 25, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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