Atlanta's pitching situation
by GeorgiaBallplayer6 on Apr 10, 2008 6:42 PM EDT
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by GeorgiaBallplayer6 on Apr 10, 2008 9:41 PM EDT reply actions
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first comment for me, so im a newbie also, but i think u forgot Manny Acosta, he has had trouble finding the strike zone, but is quite good. Maybe its just me, but i dont see the hype on Ohman. and I love Jurrjens, but he isnt a nbr 1 guy, not even a 2 guy. He has a good fastball and a good changeup, but doesnt have a reliable breaking pitch to speak of, and because of this he wont be able to dominate like we need. But i agree with your premise, that our staff is old and injury prone, and if this season starts to go down the tubes, in August (not saying we are in bad shape right now, I think we'll be fine). I think it might be time to bring up some younger, new blood to see what they can do.
Well
It's not like we could've traded Hampton, he was one of the top 20 biggest contracts in baseball and was injured. And it's easy to say we need to get younger, but we dealt some of the pitchers we developed (Dan Meyer, Zach Miner, Adam Wainwright). We have reinforcements coming in Jurrjens, Reyes, Hanson, and the studs at Rome, but this year we really didn't have a choice but to rely on the four old guys.
By 2010, we could have a rotation of Hudson, Jurrjens, James, Reyes, and Hanson. That'll depend a lot on how they develop, but by 2011/2012 we should have a good bit of depth from Locke, Rodgers, Rohrbaugh, and Co.
I like Soriano and Gonzalez closing, Moylan seems steady enough in relief, Acosta might develop, and from there look at guys like Stockman, Boyer, Cuevas, Medlen, etc.
Harrison too
Matt Harrison's at AA again - 5.2 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 6 K
Not too bad.
Speaking of the Tex trade (and severely off topic)
Salty's hitting .333/.417/.571 at AAA, Andrus .333/.360/.417 at AA, Feliz 6.2 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 2 BB, 6 K, and Beau Jones has sucked it up.
My Guess.
That trade ends up Salty (A-), Andrus (A-), Feliz (B), Harrison (B-) and Jones (B-). Definitely not a bad haul for them, but consider the three compensation picks, 1.5 seasons of Tex in his prime and 0.5 seasons of work from Mahay and I think it's fair value. You'll also have to take into account the fact that we'll have many millions of dollars freed up to invest elsewhere, so it's not as though it's all lost. The reports of our demise (because of that trade) are greatly exagerated.
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With You There
Last year, we had problems at first to say the least. In my opinion, it doesn't do any good to have Andrus and Salty, because they will be playing behind Yunel and McCann. So, should we have held on to them and have the deepest bench in the league with the worst first baseman, or try to fill our needs using our surplus? I think the right decision was made. Hopefully we'll be able to re-sign Tex.
Harrison...
...was in AA last year, why is he repeating the level again? Salty has no business to be in AAA. What are the Rangers thinking?
Who knows
Gerard played a better catcher than Salty did in their spring training. The Rangers also have used Salty a lot at 1B last year. Honestly, I hardly pay attention to the Rangers, so I wouldn't really know, but they claim that Salty could use "more seasoning" in AAA, and they probably just see him as an injury reserve or if Gerard gets hurt or falters through.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
Hampton
It wouldn't do any good to get rid of Hampton at this point. His trade value is exactly zero, and cutting him wouldn't help either because contracts are guaranteed, so, the Braves would be paying his salary whether he was sitting on the bench or sitting in a recliner without a contract. Might as well keep him on the roster and hope for the best until his contract runs out.
I can't wait to see what the Braves will do once they aren't eating $7-8 million to pay a guy to rehab. Hopefully some of that will go to re-signing Tex.
How much...
...of Hampton's salary is picked up by insurance? I remember reading articles after the oblique debacle that insurance was responsible for rescuing millions from the Braves payroll.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
My take
Chuck James could be a good pitcher. I think his injury was significant but not career-ending. Hard to judge him based on that one start so far. I think with some refinement he could be a good pitcher. He gives up a lot of flyballs and many seem to find there way out of the park, and struggles a bit with control some times. Otherwise, he's got good velocity and decent stuff. Should we rely on him as our ace? No, I think not.
Hampton will take care of itself. His contract will be up and unless he is willing to pay us to work I cannot see us re-signing him. We can't trade him, as pointed out, so we have to try and get as much out of him as we can. Hopefully we can get some decent starts from him and rely on our offense to carry us.
As for the future, I have learned never to worry about talent in the Braves farm system. Sure, this year we got some veterans. But, we had few options. And Glavine gave us a bargain (Mets were willing to pay him more), wanted to return home, and has proven from his two starts that he still has gas in the tank. Basically it buys us some time to get prospects ready or trade from other guys.
The bullpen is a concern thus far. I hope it will improve and keep us in games longer, because with a staff of veterans we will rely on a pen to give us probably 3+ innings a night. But as pointed out, yes, there are growing pains right now. Partially because some guys just haven't panned out.
Anybody have thoughts on Roger McDowell? Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great guy and probably a good coach, but at what point do you start wondering if he is accountable for some of our pitching woes of late? I realize he may not have a tremendous amount of influence on wins and losses, but how well is he developing these young pitchers compared to the legendary Mazzone? I am not making any accusations at this point, and certainly many things are beyond his control (i.e. Bob Wickman, injuries to Hampton & Gonzalez), but I am beginning to wonder and would like to know some other opinions.
On McDowell
The guy can't quite fill the rather large footprint left by the incomparable Leo Mazzone. What I do know is that McDowell was a very good pitcher in his own right, and his presence can't help but improve the prospects of some of our younger hurlers. I feel this applies to someone like Chuck James in particular, who also has an opportunity to learn from someone like Tom Glavine in the process.
I'll admit that my perceptions of McDowell may be colored by the tremendous respect I had for the man during his solid career on the mound, but anyone can see that our "pitching woes of late" are largely confined to our bullpen. And let's face it, our bullpen has always been a point of concern, particularly in closers and middle relief, even during our great championship runs in the 90s when Mazzone was the man. I don't ever recall anyone questioning his ability then, and I don't see any cause to question McDowell's now.
In Response
Chuck James - I've enjoyed his two years of pitching, and I like the guy, and what he brings to the table - a tough competitor that just goes out there and pitches, and is not afraid to brush back a hitter with one high and tight. I was really hoping he'd charge the mound and kick Oliver Perez's ass when they were giving each other some close shaves a year ago.
But he's too emotional, easily rattled, and once rattled his pitching turns to crap. And I don't think he'll ever improve to even a lifetime solid #5 starter, unless he gets smarter. Maddux, the professor. Glavine, Smoltz, they're all very smart pitchers. There would be games where you would see Smoltz go out and grind out the ugliest six innings you'd ever seen in your life, and scatter about six hits and throw 125 pitches, and leave; but he'd have the lead, and somehow get the win. Why, because he's smart. He knows when his stuff's not on, but he figures out how to get wins anyway. With James, I just don't see it. Either he's on, or he gets destroyed. A lot of this is age and maturity, but with his general ambivalence to the rest of the league, he's limited with just talent alone. James has the physical talent to be a good starting pitcher, but he needs to simply become a smarter pitcher.
Mike Hampton - I pray just once, that we'll get a glimpse of the old Mike Hampton. Just once. Even if it's out of the bullpen.
Roger McDowell - He's no Leo, that's for sure. But I think he's doing adequate; and just that. I remember when guys like Kyle Davies were on the team, that they learned more from the veterans on the squad than they did from Leo or Roger.
one more time ... for sting!! a sports blog written by two opinionated males
Agreed...
McDowell is not my concern at all right now. He has no control over the aches and pains of our staff. But if you look at the current situation (and it's irony) most pre-season hopes for the Braves hung on the health/performance of Smoltzie, Chipper, Soriano, and whatever Hampton could muster. Yikes, 10 games into the season and all 4 are already on the mend from what could be season long nagging injuries.
Ouch...I think I just pulled a flabimous flexor typing this...middle age stinks sometimes. ;)
Smoltz, Chipper, Soriano, Hampton
I have this odd feeling that Smotz could have his right arm fall off, and hed go out and pitch 6 innings with his left arm. While his injury may nag him all season, and he may miss a start or two, i think he has shown so far this year that it doesnt matter. He'll still give us a chance to win every game he pitches in. I went into the season, assuming we would need some sort of closer by committee, i just had that feeling. Closing hasn't been our problem its scoring runs, which will come eventually, and middle relief. I think Moylan or Acosta, it might be scary at times with his control but he has closed in the minors effectively, can close. ANd hopefully Gonzalez will come back and be effective.
As far as Chipper's injury, we are obviously not the same team, without him. He is the key to our team offensively. We need him more than anyone else. But he seems to be devoted to his goal of 150 games, and this injury, i don't beleive, will hamper that goal.
With Hamton, I agree with what someone said(i dont care enough to find out who it was), that I just want to see hiim on the mound at some point. And as long as we arent sending out Mark Redman every 5th day i think we are in very good shape, of course no offense to Mark Redman.
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