The Francoeur rumor that just won't go away
by gondeee on Dec 9, 2008 11:21 AM EST
in Braves Trade News
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PrintWe've touched on it before, but is this a new discussion or just re-rumoring the same old thing? From the Boston Globe:
According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pujrsuit of right-hander A.J. Burnett. Current Royals GM Dayton Moore (who interviewed for the Red Sox' job during Theo Epstein's walkabout in 2005-06) is a former member of the Braves organization who is eager to bring Francouer to Kansas City.
I still don't see this making sense for the Royals, as they already have a very crowded outfield, but if Moore really does covet Francoeur, then he might do whatever it takes to get him. I could see us giving up another top prospect, probably a pitcher, along with Francoeur. D-Fab agrees with me:
Francoeur for Greinke rumor, huh? No way. Not straight-up. Dayton Moore likes Francoeur, but no way. If he did that deal … no way.
I’ll ask, but would be absolutely stunned if Royals did that without getting at least a top Braves prospect in addition to the RF. And I mean a top prospect.
Hopefully we get some clarification soon. Of course, I can also see us getting another outfielder along with Greinke in return. And becuase of the Royals possibly wanting to rid themselves of some monetary responsibility, I can see that outfielder being Jose Guillen, though I'm certainly not one to say that too loud.
[Update: 12/9/08 @ 2:25pm]
D-Fab echo's what I said earlier about Jose Guillen:
While Greinke-for-Francoeur straight up seems highly unlikely to me, if you add a component to that trade it suddenly seems quite possible.
Could be a top Braves prospect and Francoeur for Greinke, but more likely, to me, is the possibility of the Royals doing the deal to get a guy they want (Francoeur) while shedding some payroll via Jose Guillen.
Guillen makes $12 mill each of the next two years. . Royals would love to shed some salary, and Guillen hasn’t performed nearly up to his contract.
That's the way I've envisioned this all along. It allows the Royals payroll flexibility and gets them one if not two promising young players in return. I can see a Francoeur/Morton for Greinke/Guillen.
[Update: 12/9/08 @ 2:55pm]
Steve Phillips at ESPN.com says "There's nothing to a Jeff Francoeur-for-Zack Greinke swap between the Braves and Royals."
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Does Frenchy count?
As the “top prospect”? He should.
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
Medlen or Locke would work for me, but doubtful for the Royals. They’d want Rohrbough or Hanson and then were back at the Jake Peavy negotiations all over again…I don’t see how this makes much sense for KC unless they get Escobar as well…..Maybe French/Esco/Morton for Grienke/Guillen? Who knows though, that’s probably an awful offer too! ha.
What about?
Frenchy for a bag of peanuts and a pat on the back. I’d go for that if I were Wren.
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
Is Dayton Moore related to Ed Wade or something? They both have huge boners for players on from their old team.
Reading the comments...
…over at MLBTR makes my head hurt.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
+100
I remember there was a time when the comments were reasonable (or at least I’d like to believe that). But I swear to Pujols that half those guys are trolling because NO ONE can be that stupid.
“Greinke/Guillen/$8 million cash for Escobar/Francoeur/Hernandez/Reyes/Schafer?”
Why would we trade both of our CF prospects, creating a hole at SS, swaping FYF for Guillen…just to get Greinke?
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Clearly
Someone’s been playing too much Ken Griffey All-Star Baseball.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
The Royals and Braves may be talking about Greinke and Francoeur
But if this trade goes down, it would involve multiple, actually good Braves players/prospects (as well as possibly Francoeur). Francoeur certainly wouldn’t be the centerpiece of the deal.
And since only a guy from the Boston Globe is bringing this back up and not beat writers from KC or ATL, I find this rumor less than entirely credible.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
I think your signature says it all. No one in their right mind is going to over value Francoeur and say that he is worth Greinke straight up, BUT on the flip side of that Frenchy still has some upside (as Dayton is more than aware of). So saying it would require multiple good players/prospects PLUS Frenchy to land Greinke who is only controlled for two more years is ludicrous.
I do agree that this rumor is most likely just your typical boston sports-writer horse-shit though.
Ludicrous?
lu⋅di⋅crous (adjective): causing laughter because of absurdity; provoking or deserving derision; ridiculous; laughable; a ludicrous lack of efficiency.
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
Probably using this one
incongruous;inviting ridicule; “the absurd excuse that the dog ate his homework”; “that’s a cockeyed idea”; “ask a nonsensical question and get a nonsensical answer”; “a contribution so small as to be laughable”; “it is ludicrous to call a cottage a mansion”; “a preposterous attempt to turn back the pages of history”; “her conceited assumption of universal interest in her rather dull children was ridiculous” [syn: absurd]
Notice how I kept it pertinent to the Braves because he’s carrying a baseball bat and wearing a Braves jersey.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Oh, I noticed ...
Maybe he could play LF for us. We’d have to get him some diuretics though. Help him pee out the toxins in case “The Man w/ the Plastic Cup” makes a visit.
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
So saying it would require multiple good players/prospects PLUS Frenchy to land Greinke who is only controlled for two more years is ludicrous.
Francoeur’s value is low. Very low. His hitting has gone from good to pretty good to poor. His defense is poor. So if you think that Greinke-for-Francoeur is close to fair or even, you’ve lost your ever loving mind. Greinke is worth multiple good prospects. Francoeur’s value is essentially at replacement level.
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 9, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
No, I'll tell you who's lost their ever lovin' mind
It’s the Royals blog moderator who decided to jump on TC and tout his prospects as better than the Braves because he’s from KC. We said the same fucking thing, Franceour is not enough for Greinke. What part of my post made you believe I said otherwise? Was it possibly
No one in their right mind is going to over value Francoeur and say that he is worth Greinke straight up.
Greinke is worth multiple good prospects, but Francoeur would be included in that group – not in addition to.
Next time you decide to blog hop at least have the respect to know what you’re talking about first.
Ah yes, talking blog smack
What you apparently disagreed with was my original statement that a Greinke-to-Braves trade would have to include some genuinely good players/prospects. And of course Francoeur isn’t a genuinely good player, unless stats over multiple years mean nothing. If you think Francoeur is good, where in the world do you get that from?
And when did I tout or even talk about any Royals prospects?
This is just my opinion. I could easily be wrong.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 9, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
First,
And when did I tout or even talk about any Royals prospects?
This was a poor choice of verbiage on my part. I was simply referring to your apparent value of Greinke over Francoeur plus multiple prospects.
What I disagreed with, and felt I stated very clearly, is that Greinke is not a valuable enough pitcher to require “multiple” good players/prospects PLUS Francoeur in a trade. The Braves have a top 10 system with tons of depth. Based on my assumption of your definition of “good”, including multiple top 25 prospects from this system plus Francoeur for two years of Greinke is ridiculous.
Here's my take
Greinke is great, he’d be a blessing to the team, but if we do a direct swap (doubtful), we have 2 outfield holes. Okay, that’s fine, there is a strong outfielder market right now. So then we pick up two free agent outfielders, cause in this scenario we don’t need Burnett. But this is best case scenario. Most likely, we will have to get Guillen too, and take his contract. I am not a fan of Guillen. That means we still have to get another outfielder, but we just got a ridiculous contract plus Grienke’s contract. This would probably push us over budget, and we’d have to have Jon Garland play Left.
Extra outfield "hole"
Bring back Charles Thomas! Last I heard, he was playing triple A ball. We’ll just give him a fat, guaranteed, ML contract. That’s the ticket!
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
Jon Garland in LF…bigjoe is stabbing his own dick right now.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
w/ something really really really ridiculously pointy and sharp
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
IF the kemp for kelly and prospect(s) is a viable option and we could get it done, a trade for greinke makes us a more realistic contender than the other options we have both now and in the future. Ive mentioned Greinke several times as a prime target because he is a young, healthy, affordable near-ace who appears to be very close to taking the next step to becoming a truly elite pitcher. In acquiring greinke, we wouldnt have to pay Burnett 15M a year to be hurt 40% of the time, and thus would greatly expand our ability to acquire other players by having available payroll space. Anyway, Guillen’s contract isnt really all that bad, 2 years, 24M remaining for a guy who OPS’ed .849, .817, .813 in 3 of the past 5 years, excluding his injury marred 2006 and general impotency of the royals offense in 2008. Not a great play, but not exactly pulling a pavano either
by jeg on Dec 9, 2008 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
and dayton moore has thoroughly denied this rumor yet again
by jeg on Dec 9, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
its not the royals offense fault he walked 23 times last year.
I probably care about sports way too much. Like, waaaaaaaaay too much.
actually there is a correlation, lack of confidence in the batter behind you tends to increase agressiveness. its theoretical but there is a substantial portion of statistical evidence to support the theory. but guillen never really has been known for his selectivity in the past, it made a weak area worse
by jeg on Dec 9, 2008 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
potential
If we make this deal it is gonna include alot of other players, my guess is at least 3-4 players.
Royals receive: Jeff Francoeur, Kris Medlen, Blaine Boyer & another prospect.
Braves Receive: Zach Grienke, Jose Guillen, and 3-4 million a year in salary to pay Guillen in a salary dump.
We need to Sign another OF now and we could sign Dunn, Bradley, or Ibanez and be happy. We also don’t take on that much salary if we can get the royals to pay the amount of money listed we take on bout 6 million in salary. We will have spent about 18 million and still have bout 22 million if we want to spend it to pick up a bat and if we want another starter on the cheap like say Jame Moyer or Chris Capuano.
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