LF Alternatives
by calbers on Dec 8, 2008 10:37 PM EST
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PrintWe have all heard the same names in the LF scenarios for the Braves:
Dye
Ludwick
Dunn
Ibanez
Ankiel
and more recently names like Hart or Hermedia have come up. Given that many of these options appear to be expensive I was trying to look at some other options that may not have been mentioned but could provide some more creative solutions to the issues.
1) Edwin Encarnacio: He is relatively young and probably isn't destined for 3B for long. However, appears to be athetlic enough to make the transition to LF. He is a RH hitter and is only 25 yrs old. His numbers this year were a reasonable:
| .251 | .340 | .466 | 806 |
2) Ben Francisco: He is part of the log jam in Cleveland for their OFers that include Sizemore, Choo, Francisco and Guiterrez. Francisco is probably the one with the lowest ceiling but could be an above average LF and can even play a little CF. I don't think he would be a stalwart in LF but might be able to add some depth and factor into the equation-especially if the CF scenarios don't pan out or if Frenchy can't rebound.
| .266 | .332 | .438 | 770 |
3) Alex Rios: Probably not real likely but he could come in and play LF or CF for the Braves and given that the Jays already have Wells in CF the value to the Jays for Rios in RF is diminished. However, he is considered a 5 tool guy that is starting to put his game together-probably more pipe dream then reality.
| .266 | .332 | .438 | 770 |
4) Eric Byrnes or Chad Tracy: I admittedly don't know anything about the health of Byrnes. However, assuming that he is coming back the DBacks have Byrnes, Tracy, Upton, Young, Jackson, and Romero all fighting for 4 spots. Given that they are supposedly cash strapped right now one would think that one of these two guys could be had for prospects. Granted they didn't want to trade Tracy last year, but twas for a rental.
Tracy
| 267 | .308 | .414 | 722 |
BYrnes-'07
| 286 | .353 | .460 |
Any other suggestions?
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A lot of those guys are pretty average
I think the Braves want an impact bat. A 120 OPS+ guy?
Some people have been suggesting Carlos Lee, but is he even available? His OBP is a little low (.350), but he’s a righty with good enough defense and power. Expensive though at $18.5M a season for 4 years from age 33 to 36.
Impact Bat
I agree. That is what the Braves want..but with the exception of Ludwick and his one productinve year. and maybe Dye (if healthy this year)..who has been seriously mentioned that fits that bill? My point was rather then trade away the farm on someone like Ludwick or Ankiel there has to be some players out there that could be had and worked into a productive situation.
Lee would be an ideal pick up…he would fit perfectly in the #4 hole. However, I don’t think he is available nor is he at a price point the braves can afford.
I wish the Braves would look at more upside guys on the cheap. Look at teams like the Phillies- They basically picked up Shane Victorino and Jason Wyrth for a bag of peanuts and a beer-both have become very valuable players. The Marlins took Cantu off the scrap heap and he was solid last year. We did something similiar with Diaz a few years back but I would like to see them be more aggresive with some fringe guys who they think have upside.
If the Braves get Kearns, John Smoltz is going to kick his ass before welcoming him. He’s popular in DC, but with an outfield of Dukes/Milledge/Wily Mo, Kearns could be the odd-man out there. Great arm, and ok pop. Wouldn’t object.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Dunn
I know everyone seems to disagree but I don’t think Dunn is close to the guy we need right now. Watching him AND Frenchy swing at bad pitches all day would drive me to drink…A LOT!
dunn doesnt swing at bad pitches… evidenced by the fact he walks a billion times a season… he swings and misses at pitches… which is a deficiency in and of itself…hoever it is balanced by the fact that when he connects the ball travels a far distance off his bat.
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
Guys who either are rumored to be available or reasonably considered to be available via trade
Hideki Matsui, Jermaine Dye, Josh Fields, Michael Cuddyer, Delmon Young, Magglio Ordonez, Gary Sheffield, Marcus Thames, Jose Guillen, Mark Teahen, Brad Hawpe, Edwin Encarnacion, Nelson Cruz, Marlon Byrd, Steven Pearce, Nate McClouth, Jeremy Hermida, Austin Kearns, Luke Scott, Brian Giles, Ben Francisco, Franklin Guitierrez, Randy Winn, Andruw Jones, Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp, Eric Byrnes, Chad Tracy, Kosuke Fukudome, Ryan Ludwick, Rick Ankiel, Chris Duncan, Corey Hart, Alex Rios, Adam Lind, Matt Murton, Gary Matthews
Narrow that down to Dye, Ordonez, Young, Guillen, Encarnacion, Jones, Kemp, Ludwick, Hart, and Rios if we are truly looking for a RH power bat. If your playing to win now, its Dye, Ordonez, Guillen, and Ludwick. If your trying to win while building a future contender, its Kemp, Encarnacion, Young, Hart, and Rios. Id say overall the best options via trade are Ordonez, Dye, Rios, and Kemp
Probably scratch Rios off. He recently signed a big extension for a lot of years and a lot of money.
i agree it isnt likely but i guaruntee he isnt untouchable. im not advocating this at all but escobar for rios in a one for one swap wouldnt be out of the realm of acceptability for the jays. also take in to context the state of the jays when that deal was signed, they considered themselves contenders at that point but may be looking at retooling/rebuilding now. rios really doesnt have kemp’s upside, is older, and more expensive so i would place his value significantly below kemp’s
by jeg on Dec 9, 2008 2:56 AM EST up reply actions
From that group, I’d take a run at Steve Pearce. The guy has insane power and he really hasn’t been given a shot to use it at the major league level. He’s lost some luster, so he might be gotten without giving much up. Maybe straight up for Brandon Jones.
I’m not really convinced Edwin Encarnacion could play a serviceable left field. He’s never put a lot of effort into his defense and when you put guys like that in the outfield they tend to give up entirely. Plus, I’ve never thought much of him as a hitter.
You included Andruw Jones in the narrowed down list?
For a RH power bat? Seriously? Why? He can’t hit for an average, he had like 3 HRs last year. Even though he only played like 50 games, that is pretty bad with a .185 average.
I WANT...
Milton Bradley..or Brian Giles..i love me some OBP
YOUR ALL DILUSIONAL
THE BRAVES WILL ONLY PLUG THE HOLES PAST THE PITCHING DEPARTMENT, MARK KOTSAY, MATT DIAZ, BRANDON JONES AND RYAN LANGERCANTSWING MY FRICKING HANDS, HAVE FILLED THOSE HOLES IN THE PASTAND OTHERS WILL CONTINUE TO FILL THEM UNTIL WE SEE THE LIKES OF SCHAFER HEYWARD AND GORKYS IN 2010
I am thoroughly convinced by your rational argumentation
by BraveBronco0121 on Dec 9, 2008 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 9, 2008 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
As it relates to the actual question posed by the author...
Dye is out. If he was an option for us, he would have been included in the Vasquez deal.
I don’t like Ludwick or Ankiel. Both of them are probably .270/.335/.500 corner OF guys, not bad but not really anything to get too excited about either, and certainly not worth KJ plus prospects.
Now Dunn I like – he won’t cost draft picks or prospects because the DBacks declined arbitration. If we can get him for, say, 4 years/12 per, it would be an excellent deal. Yes, I know he’s left handed, and no, I don’t care.
Ibanez is not an option – he can’t hit as well as Dunn and he makes ManRam look like a gold glover.
Encarnacion may well be a great option – I imagine that Dusty Baker probably hates him and he may well come cheap. If we can get him for, say Jo-Jo Reyes and a C grade prospect it would be a win for us.
Francisco, if really cheap, could be an upgrade, but he’s nothing to get excited over.
Personally, I would just sign Dunn.
I got your shift key
It is in the same spot the Yankees self control and self respect are, in there @#$
Jose Guillen
He could bridge the gap to Heyward and the price tag might be reasonable. Sure he has attitude problems, but Sheffield was productive in Atlanta. Say what you will about Bobby Cox, but he has the respect of every player in the majors. Along the same lines, I agree with those who have suggested Milton Bradley as a possible option. Both would be an upgrade over what we have, and they would only be there long enough to get Heyward ready.
Guillen .264 .300 .438 .738
Nothing to write home about, but his power numbers (20hr 97rbi) were on par with Ankiel.
If you are going to bring up the mitchell report don’t forget Ankiel was caught as well [not to forget Schafer and Flowers(who we just dealt) who have had their own steroid issues].
Guillen is bad.
If we don’t end up with Dunn and he accepts a low contract with someone else, I will be upset.
Dunn plain and simple
If anything go after Delmon and go for the youth movement because without an impact hitter the braves will be picking in the top half again.
If we get Dunn...
Batting Order
3. Chipper Jones (2nd in the NL in OPS)
4. Adam Dunn (9th in the NL in OPS, 2nd in HR)
5. Brian McCann (11th in the NL in OPS)
That’s three out of the top 11 in OPS. That would make us the only team with 3, and only one other NL team has 2. And remember kids OPS means everything.
Doesn’t matter…Dunn bats LH.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
He must also crucify babies, because I still have no earthly idea why the org. has no interest in him.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
i had heard he eats babies…its where he gets all his strength…everyone knows babies are high in protein
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
Oh, believe me...
…we’re on the same page. The simple fact that people would not want a hitter with the 9th highest OPS in the NL because he hits from the left side of the plate is…frustrating.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 10, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Just to clarify
I was the main person preaching about acquiring a RH power hitter for LF, but in my defense I never said I didn’t want Dunn nor that Dunn wasn’t good. In fact I praised him several times as a better overall offensive force than anyone I would recommend. Still that doesn’t change my feeling that we need a RH bat instead of Dunn. My point being that even though Dunn’s career OPS against lefties is good, it’s not good enough when you compare his stats to a RH batter that mashes lefties. If you look at the Braves stats from last year you will see we have a huge deficiency against lefty starters. Someone made the argument that we barely see lefties, I think they stated we see lefties on average once every 4 to 5 days. Horseshit, our hitters saw lefties over 31% of the time last year, granted some of those AB’s were against relievers. Another point, we scored 560 runs in 1045 hits against righties meaning someone scored on 53% of our hits. Against lefties we scored just 193 runs on 496 hits meaning someone scored on a measily 41% of our hits. Again, Dunn’s .821 OPS against lefties is good but I would much rather have someone who’ll post above a .900 OPS against lefties (/insert shameless plug for Conor Jackson here). 1. this type of hitter will be cheaper and 2. it’s makes us a more rounded ball-club.
I know you weren’t targeting me and sorry for the rant but I get frustrated too and thought I would clarify my argument a little.
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